Yo, /vr/, I have a pretty specific problem.
See, I have really good intuition, generally regarding stuff like making fast calculations, logic problems and orientation in terrain.
The problem is, our education system (teachers being like "I don't care if the result is correct, you must prove how you got it or I will fail you") has made me supress it, so I subconciosuly try to ignore it at every step (and later get mad where it turns out my intuition was right all along and I just wasted time overthinking shit). I've been trying to get back to using it, and I thought of using games to train myself to use it again. I noticed games with complex levels and worlds make me use terrain orientation skills to imagine them in full - and it's much easier and faster than e.g. going hiking in the woods.
So, /vr/ - what are exploration-focused games with huge, complex worlds and levels that you recommend? Mind you, they need to not have any kind of in-game world maps (which is why I'm not asking /v/, since modern games handhold you so hard in that department - and besides, all I'd get in replies would be shitposts) because if I can just see where I am, it defeats the purpose - so most metroidvanias after Metroid 2 are pretty much useless for my purposes.
I'm currently playing through first Legend of Zelda and both Dooms (since you can ignore automap in them), I'm planning to also get on Wolf3D and first (and second) Metroid - but that is about as much of such games as I know.
Generally, I'm talking about the kind of games where it would be a good idea to use a graph paper for maps, stuff like that?
Duke Nukem 3D has some truly massive levels, with a good mix of complex indoor and outdoor environments and some decent puzzles. I'm pretty sure I figured outhow to get into the submarineon luck alone.
I don't know if this is exactly what you're looking for, but it's a game I can recommend regardless.
>>3295320
Thanks! I do actually remember playing it as a kid, weird that I didn't make the connection myself.
>>3295306
honestly?
Daggerfall
navigating those dungeons and learning to use the map effectively is great for spacial awareness.
>>3295456
learning your way around the cities and dungeons can be pretty difficult, especially with the larger dungeons where you can spend a long time just trying to reach your target and get out again, let alone explore the entire place
>>3295486
I know this isn't retro, but check out Space Station 13
some server levels are pretty massive and its fun to learn all the ins and outs of a map and learning how to exploit them as different job classes
>>3295306
>(teachers being like "I don't care if the result is correct, you must prove how you got it or I will fail you")
This isn't a bad thing at all. If you don't understand why, you were probably the "smart" kid in middle school that ended up being left behind in higher education and ended up in a no skill dead end job.
>>3295486
you can definitely see where you are in the SS2 map. But also you could avoid trying to look the map and just use the markers
>>3295306
All those games have ridiculously simple maps? Try some actual dungeon crawlers if you want mazes, especially the old ones where everything looks the same like the D&D games.
It's "retro", but try The Dark Spire in Wireframe Mode.
The Turrican games
Exile on C64
The Divide: Enemies Within does have a map, but if you ignore it, you can get lost pretty fast.
I know it doesn't qualify as retro, and will be seen as bait, but Minecraft's caves and tunnels can become a bitch, even with proper marking with torches and such.
>>3295597
reply.
>>3295306
Swords and Serpents
Any of the Wizardy series
Any of the Ultima Series
>>3295306
Goldeneye multiplayer was actually very tough for me. The textures seem very samey and you have a small view port so it's tough to see what is there. Very easy to get turned around in a level, but you know there are enough cues around if you're paying attention.
>>3295306
Dungeon crawlers. Easier navigation would be something like phantasy harder would be something like wizardry.
Pool of Radiance is also a thing.
>>3299708
Protip, put down stairs and have them face the exit. So if you want to leave, just go "upstairs".
>>3295306
Castlevania: Circle of the Moon if you have a Gameboy Advance. The game has a fuckton of secret rooms, and most of them can be figured out, but some are just fiendish. La Mulana is pretty fantastic for this as well.
Super Metroid also goes without saying, and Doom has quite a lot of hidden secrets throughout the game.
>since modern games handhold you
Play better games, faggot.
>>3300015
I just put torches on the right at all times, so to get home, torches on the left.
>>3300007
Second on grid-based dungeon crawlers, great for testing your spacial awareness.
Eye of the Beholder 1-3
Dungeon Master Series
Shining in the Darkness
Wizardry Series
The Bard's Tale Series
Best played with a piece of graph paper.
I'd be pretty skeptical about the ability of videogames to help any such skills or any using your tuition or anything like that. I'd be skeptical it would develop anything other than navigation skill if that.
For purposes of this I would say Turok 2. Technically there is a basic vector-like map, but it's pretty useless and there's no reason to use it.
Adventure for Atari 2600
Blaster Master for NES
Shin Megami Tensei 1 and 2 for SNES. The maps are completely grid based and while the in-game map exists, it's technically not necessary to look at. They're Japan only games, but have both been patched and bugfixed.
>>3295306
try shadow complex. Also whenever the new zelda comes out should be right up your alley. Apparently the map/landscape is over 100x the size of twilight princess
