In an alternate universe, the N64 got dozens of high quality point and click 2D adventure games.
ugh... in an alternate universe Nintendo wasn't run by dickheads who refused to keep up with modern technology or make any game that didn't have Mario in it
>>3288765
Pretty sure 3D would take over 2D no matter what timeline you're in.
To most people, more dimensions means better games. Not to mention N64 was built to be a 3D powerhouse, so making 2D games for it when other choices (like the Saturn) would be more sensible is silly.
>>3288783
You're not wrong on any of those points, but in the long run Nintendo did shoot themselves in the foot by making the N64 so bad at 2D. It pretty much killed the niche appeal.
>>3288790
>You're not wrong on any of those points, but in the long run Nintendo did shoot themselves in the foot by making the N64 so bad at 2D.
The N64 is perfectly competent at 2D. It's just that almost nobody gave a shit about making 2D games on the system.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMHZ0TWHBeQ
You can even run 2D on the N64 without using the RSP. Namco Museum is run 100% on the CPU, blitting pixels directly to the framebuffer. The 64doom homebrew port does the same thing. The N64's 2D capabilities were almost never exploited because 3D was the new hotness and everyone, I mean, EVERYONE hated 2D. Doom 64 was looked down on because it used 2D bitmap enemies.
>>3288765
Those rely on cd's for the added storage space, and the hardware wasn't great at 2d anyway because of the inbuilt aliasing filter. The saturn made the most sense for this sort of game, and it only got a coupl-. Nanatsu Kaze no Shima Monogatari was pretty beautiful though.
>>3288810
I understand where you're coming from, but a bunch of arcade ports from the 80s aren't the most demanding thing.
I think a better example would have been Yoshi's Story. Were there any other N64 games with basically 2d-only gameplay?
>>3288765
>high-quality
>point and click
oxymoron
>>3288828
Mischief makers comes to mind, and Bangia-o.
>>3288839
Mischief Makers looks ugly as fuck, though.
>>3288876
Your mother's pussy is ugly as fuck, but that doesn't mean I don't pound it into hamburger meat in your racecar bed every night
>>3288876
Yeah, again because the 64 filtering makes anything 2d look like a blurry mess. Even Yoshi's story is fugly looking, compared to Yoshi island it's embarrassing.
Guys who weren't around at the time probably don't understand the extent to which people were rejecting anything 2D back then. I knew lots of kids who would throw the controller and say nope I don't play these if a game was 2D. I'm pretty sure adventure games were already dead as fuck around that very same time too so I have to agree with the other poster and say this wouldn't happen in any timeline regardless
I've always assumed the whole "there's another universe where you decided not to eat the donut this morning" is a severe misunderstanding drawn from pop-science and propogated because it works well for setups like OPs anyway
>>3288895
After playing SM64, OoT, MK64 etc I didn't even touch my Genesis until about.. well not until around 2014 now that I think about it.
And there's no way in HELL I would have touched adventure games on it. I didn't even particularly like them when they were state of the art/my only option, I sure as fuck wasn't
going to put up with that slow, frustrating crap when there was SM64, or even Mario 1 to be playing.
I think it was mostly nintendo's "fault" that SM64 turned out so well and was a launch title. If they'd botched the 3d hardware or software and "3D" meant something like cramped PS1 corridor runners at Starfox 1 framerates we might have actually seen some good 2d games (not those two weeb shits and shitty yoshi).
They did keep making fun 2d games, they just switched to handhelds. They kept turning out great handheld games even far into the >NOT RETRO REEEE era, we just aren't allowed to talk about them.
Point and clicks were NEVER good, though
>>3288876
>>3288884
It makes sense to filter rendered sprites though like the type Yoshi's Story and Mischief Makers uses.
It does not make sense to filter pixel art which is what Wonder Project J2 uses, hence the N64 does not filter that game.
This concept isn't hard.
>>3288918
Ahem, mischief makers is not weeb shit though.
Literally the only weeb thing about it is the perverted old man that's played for comic relief.
>>3288918
>They kept turning out great handheld games even far into the >NOT RETRO REEEE era
Except during that shitty phase in the NDS life when they decided touch controls had to be tacked onto EVERYTHING.
But yes, you're correct.
>>3288939
>Except during that shitty phase in the NDS life when they decided touch controls had to be tacked onto EVERYTHING.
Sometimes it worked out alright.
>>3288812
>Those rely on cd's for the added storage space, and the hardware wasn't great at 2d anyway because of the inbuilt aliasing filter.
Very little is "built in". Everything from AA to the N64's refresh rate was controlled in software. The N64 can manipulate the framebuffer directly.
That's how you get this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2fXAZy09b0
>I think a better example would have been Yoshi's Story.
Yoshi's Story uses 3D effects to render its levels.
>Were there any other N64 games with basically 2d-only gameplay?
Nushi Duri, plus a bunch of other Japan-only games nobody cared about.
Rampage and Rampage 2. Rakuga Kids.
>>3288918
>>3288895
>>3288810
>>3288783
I agree with the notion that 2D wasn't even close to be as popular as 3D was back then because that was hyped up so much in the PSX/N64 era. However, even though I got my N64 back in 1997 and was blown away by Mario Kart 64 and Super Mario 64 while being amazed at what the playstation could do, it didn't push me away from 2D games at all. On the contrary, I still loved playing SNES or Gameboy games (even got stuff like Link's Awakening DX, DKC2 and Wario Land 2 around the same time).
Can't say whether my personal experience is exceptional or actually more like the rule but it was definitely not as black and white like "everyone hated 2D" or "Every 3D game was more popular than 2D".
>>3289040
It's not that everyone hated 2D, more like everyone wanted 3D because it was the new, unexplored/unexploited thing.
>>3288895
Kids who only had an N64 were the fucking worst.
Thankfully, consumers lapped up Rayman, Command and Conquer, Broken Sword, etc. and the Gameboy got a resurgence with Pokemon.
>>3289000
In theory the N64 can blit 4 pixels per cycle at 62.5 million cycles a per second, giving it a blitting fill rate of 250 MPixel/s. Although the CPU would have to do a lot of work coordinating the blitting and of course real-world memory bandwidth would hold it back, that is pretty fucking insane theoeretical 2D performance for a mid-90s
console. That hardware blitting support includes transparency.
People have learn the difference between what was done and what could be done.
>>3288776
Then what's the difference with sony?
>>3288830
You are the moron here.
>>3288812
>the hardware wasn't great at 2d anyway because of the inbuilt aliasing filter
The N64's texture filtering could actually be disabled. It's just nobody did it because it was a visual downgrade in most cases.
The biggest problem with the N64 was the 4KB texture cache.
>>3289859
>The biggest problem with the N64 was the 4KB texture cache.
For 2D of that era it's perfectly fine as its enough to hold a tilemap.
>>3289859
>The biggest problem with the N64 was the 4KB texture cache.
If you render straight from CPU to framebuffer, you can bypass the texture cache.
>>3290376
Although it's rather stupid to bypass the texture cache because it means that you are bypassing the entire GPU and missing out on hardware accelerated blitting.
>>3289062
I don't think you were alive back then.
>>3288895
Sounds like you knew a lot of retards.
>>3290842
>Although it's rather stupid to bypass the texture cache because it means that you are bypassing the entire GPU and missing out on hardware accelerated blitting.
Yea, but 64doom is proof that it can work even for 2.5D games.
>>3291001
Doom doesn't really need more than that. The N64's MIPS R4300i is equivalent to a highly clocked 486.
>>3289042
Most 2d games rleased at the time, when reviewed got a bagging with comments like
'the 2d graphics look dated'
And crap lile that. So naturally thye made the progression to 3d.
Could you imagine how wonderful gaming would be if the adventure genre hadn't died in the U.S.?
The writing in video games would be so much better now.
Storytelling in gaming went from The Last Express, Discworld Noir and Grim Fandango to revenge story, revenge story and revenge story.
