So I'm playing this for the first time and having lots of fun. Why does nobody ever talk about it?
StarTropics general.
Thread theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tZuNvs-GC4
>>3284546
>why doesn't anyone talk about StarTropics?
Because Mike isn't in Super Smash Bros so the Nintendo fags don't give a shit.
>>3284546
first boss felt like bullshit to me, how about you?
>>3284598
Did you use the fireball thing? It only took a few tries with that.
>>3284620
did, but they're gone quite quickly
>only took a few tries
what?
>>3284623
You have to be pretty careful with how you use them, but 25 is enough to kill the first boss. You just have to know not to throw them when his mouth is closed.
>what?
I died a few times on that boss.
>>3284640
>I died a few times on that boss.
that's what I mean. Knowing the "solution" (the game is practically dipping your nose into it), it's still such a luck based fight, only to repeat half the caves before it. I mean, it's the beginning of the game, I'm barely invested in the story or the mechanics, and then this fight comes along and puts a fuck-you interruption right in front of you. Maybe I'll try to put up with it at some point, but as it is, StarTropics is a fantastically short and shallow game with a useless endboss
>>3284647
I disagree, I felt the times I died were more my fault than the game's. Once I figured out the timing it was pretty easy.
You really gave up on that boss?
>>3284654
>You really gave up on that boss?
for the moment, yes. As I said, I've been a few minutes into the game, seen some of the rooms a handful of times because of my own stupidity. The boss took me down once, second time around I damaged it with the torches and it did me in any way. At that point the fight was over to me. I had no interest in revisiting all these rooms yet again (they're not puzzles the second time around, just chores), I knew at least how to wound the boss, and I knew that timing's gonna be a bitch. That was good enough for me to shut down the game and move on to something more interesting
>>3284667
I'm not a huge fan of how the game handles game overs either, but at the same time, a lot of Nintendo games of the time sent you back pretty far on getting a game over. I don't feel this game is unique in that sense.
>>3284678
oh, it's probably not unique in that regard. I'm just slowly going through a handful of NES games that I heard good things about (didn't have an NES back then). Basically talking about my first impression. I may come back to it at some point, but for the time being, there are games that manage the introduction better
>>3284546
I love both of those games.
They were made in Japan but not released there, for whatever reason.
The game really gets no love from Nintendo.
I mean, I would expect there to be at least a reference to it in something like Smash Bros, but nope.
However they will reference a game that was only released in Japan, like Mysterious Castle Murasame, and that's okay?
Anyway, yeah, Startropics are great games.
They are Zelda-ish, but that's a good thing.
>>3284721
>They are Zelda-ish
what does that mean?
>>3284724
I assume you have played one or both Zelda games on the NES?
Well, Startropics is actually a bit more like the first Zelda.
Top down view, basically a dungeon crawler...you get the idea?
It has similar gameplay elements to the original Zelda.
i always post this even though i don't ever play this game. just for the fans:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmUvGH2HMuc
>>3284721
That saddens me, too. In Brawl, even fucking Metroid Pinball got a sticker, while the only reference to Star Tropics was in the timeline. It is a great game, but I guess the fact that they never released it in Nippon means it will forever be viewed as cashgrab garbage for dumb gaijin.
>>3285185
>even fucking Metroid Pinball
don't you dare. It's a fantastic game
>cashgrab garbage for dumb gaijin
sounds about right
>>3284667
Just stand right under him, soak the first fireball and jump through him during invincibility.
Boom, first boss done.
>>3285209
>jump through him
you don't even need to defeat that bastard, just get through the room? Sounds like a bug
>>3284647
>it's still such a luck based fight
but it's not. at all.
>>3284620
You don't even need it, you can kick his ass with the yo-yo if you have any sort of rhythm in your backbone.
>>3285304
>rhythm
There's a pattern to the fire? I didn't bother watching it long enough to pick one up
>>3284554
He was in Brawl.As a sticker.
>>3285313
Early games are full of patterns, but I assume he's talking about the Yo-Yo itself, which will actually fire slower if you mindlessly mash the B button.
If you can figure out the timing, it fires pretty rapidly. Very fast.
>>3285192
>don't you dare. It's a fantastic game
what
>>3284546
Nintendo and the the Famicom fanbase naturally aren't going to bring attention to it because Japan didn't even get the game. So no StarTropics on GCCX or anything. Which is a shame because it's actually really good.
I guess another factor might be that unlike the relatively mellow Zelda 1, StarTropics is not afraid to kick your ass. Once in a while it'll even sucker punch you. There's a fork in the volcano that just kills you if you go left. And of course the punchline of the (actually pretty fucking funny) secret in the first chapter. But usually it's pretty fair.
>>3285958
>So no StarTropics on GCCX or anything.
Shit man that'd actually be a pretty good game for Arino to do. Right up his alley.
Also what secret? I don't remember a secret.
>>3285958
>Once in a while it'll even sucker punch you.
>Find the bonus room in the first dungeon
>there's a switch to open another bonus room
>yet another switch in that one
>third room is just water
Such a dick move, but I love it.
>>3285932
it's a pretty simple statement. Metroid Prime Pinball is a fantastic game
>>3285958
>the punchline of the (actually pretty fucking funny) secret in the first chapter
that was meant to be funny?
This game was amazing, makes me want to play then again. Zodas revenge was even radder, nor being confined to a grid anymore turned me off at first but after getting used to it I felon love with its startropics charm. This game shit on Zelda. I love Zelda but startropics needs it's praise.
>>3284598
>>3284647
>>3284667
>>3284685
>>3285313
>luck based fight
What? Seriously, what? The boss can literally only do two things: "open mouth" or "open mouth and shoot fire". It can't even hit you if you're standing on the two side blocks.
If don't have the patience to figure out the first boss, don't bother with the rest of the game.
>>3285919
No, I do not think so. I am pretty sure there was absolutely no reference to Star Tropics at all beyond its release date mentioned in the timeline. Nintendo will never acknowledge Star Tropics in any meaningful capacity beyond selling it on VC.
>>3286945
>The boss can literally only do two things: "open mouth" or "open mouth and shoot fire".
indeed. So unless there's a pattern to that (didn't bother), there's a chance you'll get fired or not, plain luck
>>3286557
It is meant to punish you for being greedy. One bonus room, exit to another bnus room, but wait, ANOTHER exit? Hot damn, even more bonuses! Oh... crap.
I am not one for YOU GUESS WRONG YOU LOSE gameplay since I think it is in no way challenging, but at least there it kinda makes sense and connects you to the developers. Like, they knew exactly what you'd be thinking after seeing a potential third bonus room, only to answer your incredulity with "Yes, it was indeed too good to be true, hehe."
>>3286954
>I am not one for YOU GUESS WRONG YOU LOSE gameplay
indeed, and that's my problem with it. They didn't tell me "don't be greedy". They told me "we'll insta-kill you whenever we please, deal".
>potential third bonus room
didn't enter my mind. Unexplored dungeon. Could have been a couple more monsters and a dead end for all I cared
I wonder if Nintendo will get so desperate someday soon that they'll go back and reboot some of these abandoned IPs
Nostalgically my favorite game of all time. I always thought a novelization or a continuation of the series in book form would be a neat idea.
>>3286968
Nah, probably just redo Starfox again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKmwKbv7gZw
HOLY SHIT, GUYS! Look at that luck based boss fight at 2:52!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jesus christ... todays kids, I fucking swear...
>>3287497
>todays kids
you wish
You also sound quite angry, because some stranger somewhere else couldn't be bothered to put up with the tedious repetition when learning that boss. I got to thank you though, I suppose. Your stupidly arrogant attitude made it quite clear this is not the game for me. So you got it all to yourself. have fun.
this was one of the first 3 video games I ever played back around '95, along with Super Mario Bros./Duck Hunt. I spent hours in it, but never beat it. Recently I beat the octopus boss and rescued the Dolphins. Now on my way to some mountain or castle I think..
Such a great game, I have plenty of good memories playing this gem.
I always thought it had some neat level design/puzzles, like pic related.
Also, all the places where you could pass through walls to reach items and power ups really encouraged you to explore the levels.
And don't get me started on those peskyfalse exits, they really kept me cautious when I was younger.
>>3287520
>tedious repetition when learning that boss
He shoots two fireballs. You jump over them and smack his shit. How is this is any way difficult to deal with?
>>3287593
read the thread. I died twice against that boss while being retarded. Normal learning curve for a game of that time, but here's the key you (dis)miss: I had a stack of other games to play, and at this point in the game, the game did not get me invested yet, but decided to fuck with me already. I spent a couple hours having more fun failing in Castlevania than I could be bothered to deal with that cave snake. One game managed to pick me up, to gave me an incentive to put up with it, the other didn't. Simple as that.
I played both of these like a year ago (probably less) and have absolutely no recollection of any of the content, except the radio code (which is a meme by now), and that in the sequel when you go to the west there's a guy that sings a whole "actually directions to treasure" song that ends with "Yeeeeah boi!" that made me laugh - although this three room treasure trap sparked some recognition.
It's either a testament to how fragile a persons memory can be, or to how forgettable these games are.
>>3287596
Out of interest, what does Castlevania do differently that makes you prefer it over StarTropics? If I remember correcly both games sends you back to the beginning of the level when you run out of extra lives/dies 3 times.
>>3287596
I dislike being the dismissive type, but this honestly and truly does sound like you blaming the game for you being bad at it, and given the information you're giving, at games in general.
This is a simple boss with a singular pattern, no more difficult than figuring out that Bowser jumps sometimes in SMB. That you're having a problem figuring this out is much more of a "you" problem than it is a game design problem - if you think the first cave is fucking with you I'm glad you're quitting now and saving us from coming back to this thread every single time there's a bump on the road that requires you to actually use any amount of skill to get past it and whining to us about it being hard.
Of all the complaints I've seen here, "The first boss of StarTropics is hard!" is among the most petulant, inept blame-shifting ones.
>>3287610
Castlevania has a faster pace and gives a better sense of progress.
One aspect I mentioned in the thread already: the rooms in StarTropics, at least that first dungeon, are light puzzles. First time around they're fun to solve, but if you die (including the mandatory death with the secrets-joke) you need to re-do the rooms. By that point you managed the controls just fine, and you solved the room puzzle, but you still need to do it again. It becomes a chore, a time waster. You're trying to move on, make progress, but the game actively stalls you.
No such thing in Castlevania. Every step forward of the character is progress in the level. The rooms stay challenging even in repetition, and I can use these rooms to polish my controls to be more prepared for the boss fights, which are brief and to the point.
>>3284546
They don't talk about it because of the god-awful glitched overland theme that made it to the final copy.
>>3287618
I blame the game for doing things that counter personal engagement at a too early stage. The secret room was a great example. I wasn't chuckling when I encountered it. I was shaking my head, because the game gives the player nothing to warn them, it's a mandatory death. It communicated things to me, that are not a good thing to communicate this early in the game. By the time I reached the boss I played the rooms before it thrice. The game drained me from most of my interest to go forward. That I died to that boss first was certainly my fault, but it made me repeat the same dull puzzles for the fourth time. I simply had no interest to give this boss more than a casual glance, because the game worked its hardest to kill that interest.
>The first boss of StarTropics is hard!
If that's what you want to read into it, be my guest. I tried to make it as clear as I can at this point that the boss likely wasn't difficult, but I just couldn't care any longer to figure it out. Usually games put bosses in front of you as a challenge, even a small one. I did not feel challenged by this boss, I felt annoyed. And yes, for this, I blame the game. The way to get there was badly paced.
The scorpion in ST2 was a nightmare for younger me. I kept dying to that fucker. I learned how to beat it years later though.
Also the Miner boss as well unless you have both Invulnerability stars and the Knight due to the conveyor belt.
In the boss rush, Zoda X and him are the bottleneck which trips me up due to the conveyors of Zoda X and the Boulders of the Miner, often costing me potions, due to the latter's possibility of boxing me in without maneuverability.
>>3284546
Fantastic game which I played and loved waaay back when it first came out. Yes, I had Nintendo Power to walk me through it so that probably mitigated some shortcomings but overall I found it to be a fantastic game. I started replaying StarTropics about a week ago, and besides feeling that the dungeons get a little tedious after a while, it's still a very fun game to play. The variety of enemies and upgrades and special items keeps it fresh. I'm not even half-way through yet, but I seem to remember the game getting pretty brutally hard towards the end.
I would absolutely suggest this game to anyone who really enjoyed the "Zelda games" and wants something similar with a goofier, more colorful feel.
>>3286950
Of course there's a pattern. Hang out on one of the side blocks and it's easy to figure out when he's going to open his mouth and not shoot fire. In addition, if you're quick you can shoot 1-2 fireballs into his mouth before his fire can reach you as you jump to the side. Not beating the first boss here is...not something I'd quickly admit to.
>>3287520
>with the tedious repetition when learning that boss
are you fucking retarded?
>>3287652
>Of course there's a pattern
Thought so. Now imagine just how bored I was at that point that I didn't have the patience to wait the couple seconds to recognize that pattern. The game did its best to make me not give a damn about its story, or that boss, to the point that I had no motivation to see what's behind it. That's what I have a problem with.
>Not beating the first boss here is...not something I'd quickly admit to.
Once you understand the reasoning, that it's not the difficulty but the lack of care, it may make more sense.
>>3287653
if you die, you got to walk through half the dungeon again, "solving" puzzles you solved already, before facing that boss again
>>3287662
Ladies and gentlemen, the modern gamer.
I was just waiting for him to call it artificial difficulty.
>>3286963
Not to mention that Mike gets psychic powers in Zoda's Revenge, another thing Ness already has.
>>3288138
your reading comprehension is pretty poor. Though I get the idea you stopped reading long ago, and are just straight up shitposting
>>3287629
You've made your points quite clear. but they aren't the ones you think you're making.
You can leave the thread, now - you haven't offered us anything we can work with anymore and admitting that you'd be willing to just drop it before even finishing the first portion of the game speaks enough. All I'm seeing from you is that you have neither patience nor co-ordination or are lacking in basic problem solving skills.
You don't even deserve a
>GIT GUD
You deserve a
>GIT NOT FUCKING TERRIBLE AT GAMES
with a side of
>GIT BALLS ENOUGH TO ACTUALLY SAY WHAT YOU THINK INSTEAD OF BLAMING THE GAME FOR YOUR PROBLEMS
>>3288703
>you haven't offered us anything we can work with anymore
I'm not expecting anyone to "work with" what I'm saying. You folks made it quite clearly that I'm not supposed to be playing this game, and rest assured, I won't.
>admitting
nothing to admit there, it's the simple reality. The game gave me plenty of annoyances and no reason to put up with them. There are plenty other games to play.
>I'm seeing from you is that you have neither patience
for this game? Correct. It gave me no reason to offer it some patience.
>>3288719
Not him, but I just hope you understand that nobody's criticizing you for not liking the game, they're criticizing you for being so quick to give up.
>>3288778
>they're criticizing you for being so quick to give up
If only that were the case. They're lighting up a straw man regarding difficulty. They have every right to criticize me for giving up so quickly. I stated my reasoning why I did so. That's all there is to it. There are many games left to play still, so I don't consider it a big loss. I've seen enough of the game to know that it won't work for me, and moved on.
>>3288719
>for this game? Correct. It gave me no reason to offer it some patience.
I bet you don't like Another World either
>>3288787
Don't know. Been a very long time that I touched it. What I remember of it was quite interesting, little puzzle platformer. I remember making it to some elevator thing-y, but it's been long ago, so my memory is hazy as fuck. It's not a game I'd pick on my own, different tastes and all that. Major reason I picked it up is because I wanted to see how its visuals work out, and I was quite impressed by the game.
>>3288787
>It gave me no reason to offer it some patience.
For what it's worth, Another World gave me a hell of a better reason to work with it. From what I remember the game had a strong focus on survival. You weren't so much pushing forward as you were trying to make it out alive, which was quite gripping and made me put up with many a death scene. They're kind of inevitable and necessary for such a game.
>>3288786
You can't seem to move on from this thread, though.
>>3288797
Consider each dungeon in star tropics as a large singular puzzle that occasionally punishes you by resetting itself for trying all the options. It's not really trying to bully you or set you back, it's just creating a dialogue with you while you explore it's intricacies. The only thing that happens if you lose is that it resets your rubik's cube to how it was when it started that particular puzzle, it's not going to smash your puzzle against the wall and make fun of you, only you can cause that to happen. You as an adult should be able to solve a child's puzzle like that in an afternoon, and if it frustrates you by being asinine or simplistic or childish, perhaps you should stop playing with a children's toy.
