Previous thread: >>3237024
This thread is for the spirited discussion of CRT displays - Televisions, monitors and projectors used for the playing of retro games!
>Try to keep it /vr/-related: Nothing past 5th gen(+Dreamcast). Slight OT might be okay if related to CRTs (E.G. 16:9 compatible models, flatscreens, etc.) Systems with backwards compatibility are also pretty safe territory, assuming you're focusing on the older games. PC CRTs are also a-ok.
>Produce OC! Get out your real cameras and take beautiful pictures of your CRTs displaying recognizable characters with the kind of beautiful accuracy that brings tears to the eyes of young and old alike! If you take 100 photos, at least one of them will turn out alright! (maybe)
>Try to be as detailed as possible when asking info on a specific model. As always, google is your friend, and we are your friends with benefits. Older archived threads aren't a bad place to look either.
>Share appreciation for others choice of technology and personal philosophy of gaming. As always show courtesy in your discussion and moderate yourselves first.
Discussion of video processing and scaling devices is okay, but try to keep the focus on CRTs and CRT accessories
CRT Pastebin (WIP): http://pastebin.com/1Ri5TS3x
An Anon's Guide to CRT Hunting: http://pastebin.com/H9H9L2LQ
S-Video Pasta: http://pastebin.com/rH2h6C7W
Thread Survey: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1PhdXJYwA8xModrTV1Yt-i1tvNgwiagpeBx0m_xNIVtc/viewform?edit_requested=true&fbzx=9009823977812318933
>>3253787
>/CRT/ - Custom Robo Thread
god dammit.
Threadly reminder not to fall for the SCART meme.
>>3253805
Can we at least get some CRTs posted before we start pissing people off?
Towards that end, pic.
>>3253805
can anyone provide any guides to making custom cables using BNC cable?
I have no idea where to begin but i want to hook my Dreamcast to my CRT that only supports composite, component, and rgb. (no s-video)
>>3253827
1) take a BNC cable.
2) cut one end off.
3) take a dreamcast video cable with all pins on the connector populated.
4) clip the connector off.
4) Solder the end of the BNC cable to the dreamcast connector.
5) repeat for each signal you want.
Sorry, I don't have a dreamcast, so I can't really be too specifc.
If you have questions though, ask.
http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2007/10/amazingly-huge-.html
There has to be at least one working unit somewhere right..?
>>3253792
yo too bad I will never own that game
>>3253843
just buy a jumbotron. Those are also crts.
>>3253859
Hm, I didn't know that abouut the dreamcast (I don't have one either).
>>3253848
It's only $10 on amazon right now. (I got mine from a local game store - the owner somehow acquired a box of japanese N64 games).
I've gotten pretty far in it even though I can't read moon.
>>3253859
>Though making an RGB cable may be a better option for the dreamcast.
Though making VGA cable may be a better option for the dreamcast.
不幸 だ!
>>3253827
>>3253836
The best way would be to find a way to get a hold of just the connector with the pins available, so you wouldn't have to do a wire to wire monstrosity as I have had to twice now; Not being able to open up the connectors is the most bothersome bit, to be honest.
http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/gamescart/gamescart.htm#dcast is quite useful for referencing.
>>3253862
DC has three video modes: Standard(Composite/S-Vid), RGB(SD 240p/480i), and VGA.
I don't think there's a single game that doesn't have support for Standard Mode, but both RGB and VGA can be disabled based on the game; Capcom's arcade ports are notorious for this, stuff like 3rd Strike supporting standard and VGA, but not RGB so as to presumable not compete with itself. A simple hex edit enabled it though.
>>3253843
ebay "CRT projector"
http://www.ebay.com/itm//252131432718
http://www.ebay.com/itm/231952113338
Life-size Time Crisis would be fun
>>3253876
One of those Electrohome's came up for sale locally a month or so ago for something like $400.
If I had anywhere to actually make use of the thing and the free dosh to throw at it, would have definitely been neat to use.
>>3253876
If i only i had the room for a projector like this id buy one in a heartbeat.
Anybody here use extra cooling for their monitors?
Considering buying one of those laptop cooling pads and using it upside down. My PVM gets pretty warm in use and I want to last forever.
>>3253973
the tube will degrade about the same regardless of heat. Just enjoy it.
>>3253980
>citation needed
There's also a bunch of other circuitry in there too that I'd rather not have to find spares for
>>3253987
Sony knew what they were doing, m'kay?
If you won't trust me trust sony.
If you have air conditioning you'll be fine.
If you are going to refuse to listen to people, you shouldn't ask.
@3253991
>>3253787
Camera and a few random screwdrivers laying around....um, okay?
>>3254001
>screwdrivers
I don't consider hardware sacred. I open it up from time to time.
This N64 needed a good cleaning.
Camera because reasons. This is also my computer desk so I don't fell like it does NOT belong here.
>>3254005
That crt looks mint though.
>CRT General:
>20L5 guys' personal blog
>>3254008
I've opened it to glance inside, never actually played with anything in there yet.
It works pretty well already.
>CRT general
>where people bitch instead of contributing
>>3254020
How about starting your own CRT site/forum then? With blackjack and hookers.
>>3254032
Maybe some day, but right now just posting stuff.
Babby's first illegal firearm.
>>3254020
Well if I still had a crt, I would.
I want to get one again.
>>3253836
>take a dreamcast video cable with all pins on the connector populated
So, you still need to get SCART cable (because most composite connectors are not fully populated). At least for consoles with non-standard connectors.
>>3254054
>so you still need to get SCART
There is no excuse for SCART outside europe.
Don't be silly.
Though it is true you're gonna have a hard time. Not sure - do official sega cables have all the pins populated?
Alternately drill/dremel a spot for RGB out via some other connector.
>>3254059
clarification:
I know official nintendo cables have all pins populated, not sure about the state of sega dreamcast gear though.
>>3254059
How would you get fully populated connector without buying SCART cable then?
Well, except for drilling, that's an option.
>do official sega cables have all the pins populated?
Saturn, Mega Drive supplied composite cables are not fully populated (NTSC-J), that's for sure. Dreamcast is fully populated.
>There is no excuse for SCART outside europe.
Now that's a thing I did try to comment about in the last thread.
Some of us here actually do live in countries that used SCART. Getting SCART switch here is easier as well, instead of importing BNC switch.
Now getting SCART setup in non-SCART countries is kind of silly, I agree.
>>3254070
So you're in a SCART country?
Then fine, use SCART. You have an excuse.
Are you saying sega got cheap and didn't even bother populating the 8-pin DIN on the genesis/MD? Wow.
I drilled holes for RCA jacks on mine and get RGB through them. Except my N64 is still just on s-video since it's good enough for now.
>>3254070
>How would you get fully populated connector without buying SCART cable then?
What does SCART have to do with the pins being populated?
>>3254076
Exactly.
I don't get him.
>>3254073
>So you're in a SCART country?
Yes, I am. And some other posters here are as well. So these comments >>3253805 add nothing to CRT discussion. You guys are not center of the world. We aren't as well. Use whatever works for you and enjoy CRT RGB gaming.
"Meme connector" meme has to die.
>>3254076
>>3254078
If you have console with non-standard AV jack and want to make custom console-BNC cable without drilling holes, you usually can't buy this connector separately. So you have to get another cable to cut off this connector for your soldering job.
And SCART connectors are fully populated, unlike composite.
Sorry if I'm not making any sense.
>>3254082
For people in the US who use SCART, they use it because of said meme (namely, it's the RetroRGB guy's favorite connector).
>>3254082
Funny, I have composite only cables (non-sega) that are fully populated.
>>3254082
>And SCART connectors are fully populated, unlike composite.
I have seen composite, s-video leads and RF modulators with all the pins populated. Third party cables often use a single part for the connector for all of their cables.
Fell asleep then replied in the other thread which is almost at page 10
>>3253036 #
That replacement should work but I'd still try to get the Beo 4 if you can. Offer a few euros extra to take it off their hands. You never know, it may turn out to be less broken than they're making out.
>>3254089
I will double check my NTSC-J Mega Drive cable later to be sure, because I
Now with Saturn I'm sure it's not populated.
Maybe looking for aliexpress cables, looking at photos and buying chinese populated cables for custom cable job is a good plan.
Now if only BNC switches didn't cost arm and leg to import...
>>3254097
3rd party it is then.
>>3253819
>tfw no N64 RGB
Also, Custom Robo had some good waifu-bots.
>>3254110
Yeah, my photo of that one was too bad to post.
>>3253805
>>3253816
>>3254073
>>3254082
>>3254084
Okay wow, I left /vr/ for a few months and I come back to people sperging out about SCART and why you shouldn't be using it.
A few questions:
- What should you use instead of SCART?
- Can I buy an extension SCART board/switch (or whatever you want to call it) equivalent for whatever is recommended over SCART?
- I am Australian. PAL region, very little SCART usage, but we did get some consumer sets with native SCART. Is this acceptable or not acceptable for whatever the reason is that Americans are getting upset about it?
Thanks in advance to anyone who can fill me in.
>>3254153
>- What should you use instead of SCART?
drilling holes
>- Can I buy an extension SCART board/switch (or whatever you want to call it) equivalent for whatever is recommended over SCART?
Extron switchers, $1 (+ $499 shipping)
>- I am Australian. PAL region, very little SCART usage, but we did get some consumer sets with native SCART. Is this acceptable or not acceptable for whatever the reason is that Americans are getting upset about it?
same reason americans are still swiping credit cards : royalties.
How playable are the n64 custom robo games if you dont know moon
>>3254321
Anything is playable if you are brave enough.
For dirct console->BNC cables where would you guys solder required resistors and capacitors?
>>3254098
Made it. Not going to get a Beo-4 for ebay for triple the price I'm getting the TV, but the guy promised me the broken remote.
50 euros the TV and 20 a replacement remote. Fuck, I'm lucky.
>>3254357
>brave enough
you make it sound like they should be giving out medals for it
>>3254493
Cool. Let us know how it goes.
I have a pretty ancient Beovision 5902 which needs a repair but I'd love to get it up and running again if only for the glorious sound system it has.
Pic related but not mine.
How do you go about fixing a CRT?
I've got a Sharp 32f830, in other words a 32 inch Flat-X CRT. I use S-video with official Nintendo cables, but the input to my tv had static lines that go up the screen and repeat. How do I fix this?
>>3254857
>input to my tv had static lines that go up the screen and repeat
Like in pic?
>>3254873
This pic, I mean.
Is $50 to much to sell a busted pvm with color issues? Screen goes completely green after it warms up. It's probably capacitors or some such bs.
>>3254889
So long as you disclose the issue there's no problem asking a stupid price.
The trouble is finding a mug to pay it.
>>3254898
50 can be a bargain for PVM parts. Depends on size and model of course
>>3253787
Hey whats the best way to hook up a computer to a PVM 14M2U for emulators.
Lets assume I'm building one from scratch, I heard something about needing a graphics card that outputs VGA to get 15Khz or something to get the right resolutions. What kind of card do I need to buy or find and how do I set it up? I would love to have something that can play CPS2, CPS3, and Neo Geo games at the right resolutions without buying arcade boards (or real Neo Geo hardware).
>>3254889
just say you found it in your basement and dont know much about it, if they ask if it works well say you dont know how to hook anything up to it
>>3254921
"arcade VGA" card. Seems to be about $80.
If you want to play stuff at real oddball resolutions (mostly old stuff like donkey kong etc), there's some set of drivers out there with a different name that includes more resolutions than the arcade VGA has. I'm pretty sure it's compatible with the arcade VGA board, as it's an old radeon.
I read some guide recently about setting up a little mini-itx build. The guy said to go for the fastest clocked i3 you can find, since most emulators run everything on one main thread and only a few things get offloaded to a second thread. Get fast ram, but you don't need much of it, and aftermarket coolers for the CPU and case if you want it to run cool and quiet.
>>3255460
>go for the fastest clocked i3 you can
an anniversary edition Pentium mitebgud too
>>3254921
get an AMD 7xxx
they support 240p
Is it acceptable to use SCART in NA if I'm too lazy to make my own BNC cables? I'm not the most adept at electronics hardware and I'd rather not have another thing to worry about on top of performing the RGB mods in the first place (when necessary). Is the crosstalk really that bad?
>>3255546
properly shielded cables have no crosstalk.
Don't listen to that loudmouth.
>>3255546
Look for a scart cable with mini coax. thaty will be your best bet. You're fucked if you can't pin a connector and want to rgb mod even an n64.
>>3254412
75 ohm coax cable and bnc connectors don't need resistors. They have proper resistance. I am building a snes/64/gc cable with a N64 rf adapter so I have plenty of room for caps and will prob have rca jacks in the connnector for audio. I got all the parts but haven't had time to whip one up since it's racecar season
>>3255460
thx anon saving for later
>>3255605
>75 ohm coax cable and bnc connectors don't need resistors.
how dumb can you get
>>3255546
SCART AV out -> SCART to BNC adapter is just fine.
It's a fucking 6 Mhz video signal, not a oscilloscope lead. I guarantee you that the impedance mismatch will not be your limiting factor.
Serious case of "freshman engineering" syndrome in these threads lately
>you will never get this to work with a windows computer
>>3255675
>apple moni
>2 knobs
as expected
>>3255675
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=301961989615&alt=web
You're welcome
>>3255642
The way I've heard it is that the highest you can go is the 5xxx series, but I don't know much about the AMD naming schemes. There might be a difference between "7xxx" and "HD 7xxx"?
Keep in mind I haven't done this myself yet. I've asked several times on here for help on similar subjects but haven't received much help.
It appears that most users here are console gamers snobby about using original hardware, which isn't really surprising given the topic. Not really any MAME-heads here, that crowd tends to be a bit older and found on PHPbb forums like Shmups, arcadeinfo.de etc.
http://www.ultimarc.com/store/section.php?xSec=11
http://mame.3feetunder.com/windows-ati-crt-emudriver/
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=130796.0
http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=1052
"crt_emudrivers"
>>3255642
Using CRT_EmuDriver the AMD 7xxx series can output 240p
The Arcade VGA is an HD 5450 which is very low end and obsolete
With an HD 7xxx you wouldnt be limited to one use
>>3255691
tried it, it doesnt work
Im able to connect it but its impossible to get the right refresh rate, it just cant be done. None of the programs I've tried to change the refresh rate have sufficed to make the screen usable
>>3255696
http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?id=295
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=149266.0
http://arcadespain.info/Foro/index.php?topic=4532.0
If someone comes up with a good cheap build on PCpartbuilder or similar please post it and we could all look at it together as a thread?
I love my jungle of consoles, cables, and carts, but a little mini-ITX setup + a 13" monitor could make a nice little compact setup.
>>3255743
it's been some time since I tried getting it to work last time but as far as I remember I couldn't get the exact values which you mention and that are specified in the manual, or I did and it still failed. Either way the screen wouldn't "stay still" and constantly flickered
>>3255743
Oh and in case you don't have it, the service manual:
http://www.retrocomputing.net/parts/apple/M1212/docs/Macintosh_Color_Display.pdf
Looks to be a pretty neat little display. It would be nice to see it working.
>>3255774
Damn.
Any ideas anyone?
>>3255778
I have it. Works perfectly with the old Macintosh I have, too bad it doesn't work with my windows comp...
>>3255656
Only reason I want to move away from SCART is audio interference related. Even the cheapest of cheap Chinese cables have looked absolutely fine picture wise.
>>3255786
Is that really the fault of SCART though?
I'd say it's more likely to be the Multi-AV out or cabling.
How do you properly calibrate a CRT TV? How do you know if the colors are accurate?
>>3255675
This is a Macintosh monitor?
How come it doesn't have the rest of the computer integrated into its shell?
It's not for the Apple II series is it?
Is this monitor for the later PPC processor macs?
>>3255684
I laughed.
I'm using my PS2 in a retro fashion for playing PS1 games.
I am using component cable which I've noticed are sharper than S-video cables.
But I've heard that S-video has better colours than component. What is meant by better colours?
Should I step down to S-video for my PS2?
>>3255707
Did you try going into the control panel and click monitor and click "list all modes" to select resolution and hertz?
What happens when you turn on this monitor with no computer connected?
Does it have an on-screen display or anything to indicate that it is working?
>>3256031
No, component has better colors
>>3255920
Choose warm (or very warm if available) for colour tempurature.
This makes your display output the correct 6500k that all creative industries have standardized on.
Please help.
I just plugged in my new PVM-20M4U for the first time, lights come on, but the screen doesn't show anything. Nothing is plugged in as a video source, but I should still be able to see some image right?
>>3256087
my bvm doesnt show anything if theres no signal
>>3256126
I dohn't have a broadcast monitor, just an early 2000s Panasonic TV. Does that guide still apply?
>>3256138
yes. your tv might not have settings for individual colors, though. see if you can get into the service menu.
>>3256145
How do I "feed color bars" to the TV? I don't have any extra equipment.
>>3256154
I usually use a wii with 240p test suite
>>3256115
Really? I hope that's all. I don't have anything to plug in for now to test the video. Can anyone else confirm?
>>3256164
Will that be an accurate test with composite video? That's the only cable I have for my Wii.
>>3256031
If you're using 480i/240p , you can use an RGB scart lead to get even better colors (but you will need an RGB monitor).
Component has two chrominance channels. S-Video squeezes the two chrominance channels into one channel. Component is better.
If you are unhappy with the color performance, play around with the "phase" and "chroma" settings. On consumer sets these controls are usually known as "tint" and "color". Professional stuff also has the ability to change white balance.
"D65" is the standard for practically all western media, and has whites that are slightly yellowish. "D93" is sometimes used by japanese games, and has bluer whites.
>>3256206
Use whatever cable you will be using for your other consoles.
>>3256087
Go to radio shack. Pay the outrageous price (probably around $5) they're asking for an RCA -> BNC adapter. Plug in composite to the "video" input. Then order a cheap 10 pack online.
Alternately, buy from amazon prime and choose an item one-day shipping. My SNES Scart cable took about ~6 hours to arrive when I ordered in the morning. It's probably after the cutoff now but you should receive it in a day or two.
Alternately, cut up some coax cable you have laying around and make a ghetto splice for now just to verify that it works.
>>3255864
It's not the Multi-AV; It's primarily the cabling with some affect from the SCART connector, the latter especially in conjunction with some SCART switches.
>>3256031
>>3256045
Could hypothetically have something to do with how a given display does the math for getting RGB from YPbPr. I've noticed the colors that my transcoder are putting out seem to look better than what my PVM is doing itself.
Or, at the very least better than whatever adjustments have been made to the Component settings on my OEV203. Switching between the PS2's Component output and RGB transcoded from said Component makes the differences quite obvious. The Component picture is darker, and just looks off for whatever reason: Comparing it to the PS2's own RGB out shows that the transcoder seems to be giving a picture closer to what would be expected.
This is from the GC, but you can see that the yellows have much more red in the PVM's handling of it vs the transcoder on the Megaview.
>>3256169
You can visibly see the tube turning on with mine(20M2MDU) as it goes through degauss, but doesn't show anything by default unless you press one of the menu buttons. The OEV203(rebadge of the same) does the same, but has had things changed in the settings to display the input, color encoding, and/or "No Sync".
Try pressing the Menu button on the front of the monitor. If it doesn't display anything once you've done that, something isn't right.
>>3256224
If I'm remembering correctly, it's closer to $7-8.
S-VHS input means s-video, right? This thing looks like a beaut but it's old as fuck, could be completely fucked geometry wise. Although if it had s-video at the time (i.e. probably in the 80s, judging from the design) it was probably pretty high end.
>went to my neighborhood arcade today
>remember it as glorious place of shiny CRTs
>they had a sweet metal slug machine
>90% of games are LCD now
>some games are obviously running at lower resolution and blurrily upscaled
>even the lightgun games are LCD
>laggy, wii-tier accuracy
>wagecucks who set up the machine can't even look down the sights to calibrate the gun properly
>all shots land 2 degrees up and to the left
>metal slug is gone
>in it's place is literally a flappy bird arcade game
>only two CRTs left in the whole place
>Street Fighter III and DDR
>slot mask
>.79mm phosphors
truly, life is suffering
>>3256291
Looks neat. How much is he asking for it?
>>3254073
I don't get your hate-boner for SCART
It produces the same results as BNC except it's much more convenient and easier to use
>>3256323
15 dollars.
>>3256327
Americans are obnoxious supremacists who cannot fathom ever using a french connector for their stuff, and he's a special kind of cunt who prefers drilling consoles to using a normal connector and not being a cunt about it.
There is literally zero benefit to BNC over SCART mechanically and electrically.
>>3256218
I want to calibrate it mostly for my PS2, which is hooked up with component. Any way to calibrate through the PS2?
>>3256330
Yeah, go for it. is it a craiglist/local thing or on ebay?
If it's local, just bring along some kind of source (I use my PSP with the tv-out cables) and plug it in for five minutes to make sure there's no glaring problems.
Though for $15, it's not even a huge deal if it's doa anyways, so long as you don't have to drive for hours to get it.
S-video's the best quality you can get out of an unmodded N64 anyways, and on NES you're stuck with composite without $$$ modding.
Pick it up, post some shotz.
>>3256350
Do you have homebrew on your PS2 yet? I don't know for sure that there's a calibration homebrew, but wouldn't be surprised.
Post your model number (E.G SCPH-70012) and I'll tell you if it's hackable.
www.psx-scene.com is full of info, but
>>>/vg/hbg is alright too, though 95% focused on 3ds.
>>3256370
It's not modded yet and I don't want to get into that right now. I'm really just looking for a quick way to get my TV looking more accurate.
>>3256370
It's literally a $10 memory card you buy off ebay.
Stick it in your console, and it's 'modded'. Take it out and you're 100% back to stock.
The 'hacking' etc just takes place in RAM, there's no brick risk or anything. Much more akin to a flashcart etc than to an actual "mod".
ebay "free mcboot memory card"
>>3256404
I'd rather do it myself for the fun of it. I already know about some different methods, I plan on doing the 007 one.
>>3256319
>Street Fighter III
Jeezus that game sucks
Should have put in Alpha 3 instead
>>3256415
hmm... didn't see anything about a color bars homebrew (no 240p test suite), but you could try running linux on it and opening up a BMP or something like that.
>>3256319
That flappy shit cab made more money than the entire SNK library put together.
>>3256479
Yeah. At least today the ratio of 8 year olds+dads to burnouts like me was like 5:1, and they seemed interested in that kiddie shit.
There used to be tons of cigarette-smoking asians trying to look tuff there. Maybe they still show up on thursday nights.
>>3256319
>>slot mask
>>.79mm phosphors
You weren't actually expecting to find something sporting an aperture grille there, were you?
>>3255778
In this manual it says the monitor takes separate sync.
But in this spec sheet:
http://www.retrocomputing.net/parts/apple/M1212/docs/Macintosh_Color_Display.pdf
It says the monitor takes composite sync signal.
Perhaps this is why it doesn't work on PCs.
>>3256553
Pardon,
This is the spec sheet:
http://www.retrocomputing.net/parts/apple/M1212/docs/apple_m1212.pdf
>>3254873
Like this. I'm finding my Nintendo 64 makes it worse when I plug the controller in, it makes it look worse. Gonna have to try different consoles but it does seem to be the input to the tv and not the cables.
>>3256556
As you know, VGA (the blug video plug used to connect 31 KHz CRT PC monitors) uses separate horizontal and vertical sync.
I think you need a sync splitter.
Do sync splitters need a separate power source like RGB>YUV transcoders?
>>3256473
Been fiddling around with it for a while, since luckily Onimusha has a pretty good calibration screen in its options menu. Got brightness and contrast looking pretty good. I think my hue's a little off but it looks much better than it did before.
>>3256590
No, wait.
You need a sync joiner.
>>3255605
>75 ohm coax cable and bnc connectors don't need resistors.
They need them.
>They have proper resistance.
They have 75 ohm impedance. Check this out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_line
>>3256593
What?
There's an in-game calibration suite?
Is there a list of games that have this?
Are there certain game developers that tend to include this feature in their releases?
Do any 5th gen games have this feature?
![darkcolours[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/f4aSe1X.jpg "darkcolours[1].jpg")
>>3256605
It's not really a calibration suite, just a "Monitor Brightness Tuning". It basically is just this chart (with slightly less colors).
>>3256605
Devil May Cry has it too
>>3256645
I believe RE2 has one as well. Maybe it has to do with Capcom's arcade roots since arcade games more or less universally have color check bars in test mode.
>>3256605
>>3256605
Lots of games have a greyscale tuning screen.
MGS3 has one, I think MGS2 might as well.
Color tuning screens are far rarer, and I don't know of any ps2 games that have one off the top of my head. Looks like some anons have posted theirs.
IMO the only thing that's crucial to get right is phase (also known as "tint") and saturation is okay to adjust as a matter of taste.
If the white point is off on a consumer set there's generally no fixing it and you just should smash it with a golf club.
>>3256572
Well wouldn't you know it, it was none of the above. The real culprit was an ac adapter for my laptop. The fucker even screwed up my controls to the game. By this I mean that when plugged into that ac adapter, if I were to bring the controller into range of my computer, the character in the game would move on its own, even go as far as pausing the game.
Anyone interested in seeing that, I can make a video. Kinda spooky seeing the video game play itself essentially.
I have a CRT and I use it to play retro vidya.
Well, I suppose I've contributed all I can to this thread.
>>3254110
The mod is pretty easy. It was literally the first soldering project I ever attempted. To bad the internal anti-aliasing still makes it look like shit.
>>3256948
Nope not at all. Images? Setup? Any info or experiences to share? Questions?
See?
>>3256959
Apparently you can turn that off with a gameshark for most games
It's just a VI register
First of a 4 part series about CRTs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsZ5PJB-w2s
Hey, I think I figured out how to get really really thick scanlines (think like PVM/BVM) on a CRT monitor if you're emulating using the CRT-Geom shader and don't want to mess around with that superwide resolution stuff. Here's the settings you want, assuming you're using retroarch:
Target Gamma: 3.00
Monitor Gamma: 3.00
Curvature Toggle: 0.00
Curvature Radius: 0.10
Corner Smoothness: 80.00
Scanline Weight: 0.10
You can ignore the Curvature/Corner settings if for some reason you like the fake curved screen - if you're using a CRT monitor I don't know why you would since the vast majority have curved screens anyway.
You might want to mess around with the Target and Monitor gamma settings, as getting it right is a bit of a sweet spot - too low and the heavy scanlines make the image extremely dark, too high and it'll get washed out.
>>3257218
Real PVM on the right actually running at 240p for comparison.
>>3257225
*on the left
>>3257225
I cant stand the one on the left how many fucking lines is that? my 14" 700 line BVM doesnt have them that thick
>>3257235
TVL is a measure of horizontal resolution, not vertical you tard
>>3257147
>All CRTs start with a finite amount of barium
>This barium is then used up when the set is turned on
>No matter how nice your set is, no matter how well you treat it, how skilled you are at maintaining it
>that set will some day lose brightness and die
hold me lads
>>3257248
>No new CRTs are being manufactured, what we have now is all we'll ever have.
>Most TVs were owned by people who left them on all the time.
>Most monitors were probably used in an office setting, also turned on all the time.
>Most PVMs/BVMs were probably on all the time for broadcasts unless they're from a medical/scientific environment.
I'm pretty sure most regular people don't leave their sets on all the time. Maybe TV junkies will do 8 hours , dumb housewives/neets up to 12 a day but certainly not true 24/7 use like security cameras and some broadcast stuff.
I think the consumer stuff is safe.
I also think that the medical stuff is going to be the next goldmine, since some of that stuff was probably just used for ~4 hour surgeries etc. Probably some of it was xray type stuff left on all the time though :(
I've been stocking up on ~2003 era multiformat sets, which I'd gotten into this stuff about 4 years ago though. I don't know when rock-bottom was, but we're clearly on an upward slope. We'll probably hit "Earthbound" levels of pricing in a few years for the 20" and up sets.
>>3257271
Well, "safe" from phosphor burn in/barium depletion at least. Anecdotal evidence seems to suggest the h-sync transistors go first on consumer stuff.
The main problem with the consumer stuff is that the actually nice, worth keeping sets and the conshitmer trash are hard to tell apart when powered off so they end up on the curb indiscriminately.
How many monitors do *you* own, /crt/?
>>3257218
>using fake scanlines on a fucking CRT
off yourself scoundrel
>>3257303
Fake scanlines actually look better on most computer monitor CRTs though...
I tried the super-wide-resolution trick, and it just looked very harsh and dim.
>>3257245
Get out.
>>3257303
I bet you wouldn't even have known they were from a shader if I hadn't said so in the post.
>>3257310
>Fake scanlines actually look better
No
>>3257313
Yes I actually fucking knew it was that shit retroarch because that's nothing like what 240p looks like on a CRT
>>3257315
Seems like a pretty good simulation of high-resolution BVMs where you can't make out the phosphor unless you look real close to me senpai.
>>3257315
Listen you inbred mongoloid. There is no difference between an emulated scanline or a genuine one.
If using the correct shader the lines are the exact same width and have the same placement as a genuine console. However, the colors may be off due to shit shaders.
If youre disputing the size of his black areas, thats a problem you have with his set not the emulator.
Instead of calling it bad because its 'fake' explain why and how you think that 'fake' is bad.
>>3256926
Video please. That sounds crazy.
>>3256404
>It's literally a $10 memory card you buy off ebay.
Please do not advocate buying those scams.
If I'm making a diy snes bnc cable I bridge all the coax shielding and run it to ground? does it need a resistor? conflicting info itt. can I solder the signal line capacitors directly to the pin? should i use perf board and a little project box or just wrap everything up?
>>3257376
Shielding is tied to directly to ground.
>directly to the pin?
What pin? From the SNES's Multi-AV connector? The BNC connector?
SCART cables tend to hid these in their hoods, so having them near the BNC connector would probably be decent, but someone more knowledgeable in electronics and the like would be better at giving you a proper answer.
Project box would likely make for easier assembly(in my small amount of experience in putting together makeshift cables) but would obviously be bulkier and wouldn't looks as nice, though that really all depends on how you go about doing it.
>>3257383
Also, the capacitors are needed for NTSC consoles. PAL consoles don't need caps, but rather 75ohm resistors tied to ground for R, G, B, and Composite Video.
>>3257376
>>3257383
>Shielding is tied to directly to ground.
>If I'm making a diy snes bnc cable I bridge all the coax shielding and run it to ground?
No. Tie all the shielding and solder together. Then take that and solder to ground at one point. That way you avoid a ground loop.
The two ground pins on the SNES are on the same ground plane. Like pretty much any retro console.
>an I solder the signal line capacitors directly to the pin?
Doesn't matter.
>does it need a resistor?
Depends on the console. Generally no. SNES no.
You'll here terrible info about have to use Csync. Highly dependent on the application.
>>3257274
>How many monitors do *you* own, /crt/?
3
>>3257328
>There is no difference between an emulated scanline or a genuine one.
yes there is, because of double strike.
XXX x 240@120hz yeilds a way closer result.
>>3257383
>Shielding is tied to directly to ground.
Okay no resistor, I got that part. Let me explain further. Strip the coax, gather the shielding of each individual wire and run it to a ground pin on the snes connector. Repeat for the 2 audio lines and use the other ground pin. grounds are done.
>What pin? From the SNES's Multi-AV connector?
Yes I was thinking of using low tolerance axial mount tantalum caps between the pins on the connector and the electrode of the cable. what voltage should I be using 10v? do they come tighter than 5%?
also was thinking of the small perf board and hobby box to mount radial caps and just use rca jacks and a production audio cable.
>>3257453
left out a part I would gather the shielding then solder a wire across all shielding and the ground pin to make a cleaner layout. I cant put the cap directly on the bnc end because those are pressed onto the coax with a compression tool.
>>3257425
I didn't mean to solder each shield to ground, only that the shielding should be tied to ground
The way his sentence was worded made it iffy to me as to whether he meant if he should (strangely) run the shielding through a resistor or not. It seems I may have been right in that regard, actually.
Otherwise an issue with wording on my part, sorry.
>>3257453
With the project box, I was imagining something more along the lines of something small and inline with the cable, but now I've got the idea of a something like a gutted RF box i.e >>3255605 with more connectors rather than the single one originally intended. Their idea of just using it as a housing is likely better though.
Crimped BNC connectors are definitely the way to go, but you could hypothetically put together some soldered BNC connector monstrosity; Can't imagine it would hold up all that well though.
>>3257314
not compared to actual 15 kHz monitor scanlines, no. but in my experience on my PC monitor I found the hardware scanlines way too harsh.You also end up needing a bunch of filters with the super-wide-resolution trick anyway, because otherwise the colors are wrong...
If you want authentic scanlines it's real 15 kHz monitor or bust.
>>3256327
Just filter him. These threads have become far more bearable for me since doing so.
Contributing OC.
>>3257790
Autism.
>>3257342
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oLgCoGrO6o
The description has the details on what I'm showing.
>>3256005
Are you serious? Are these real questions?
>>3257897
Please help me if you can.
>>3258102
- Yes.
- There are/were many, many Macintosh computers that aren't/weren't all-in-ones.
- No, Apple II monitors were generally composite
- I think that's the Macintosh 12" RGB monitor, which was designed for the Macintosh II and LC which are 68k Macs (Pre-PPC).
>>3258139
Thanks.
How can I get this monitor working on a PC?
This was posted earlier:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/301961989615
but they say it doesn't work.
>>3255707
>>3255774
Does the monitor fail to take VGA signal because it requires composite sync?
>>3256556
Is there such a thing as a sync joiner that plugs into VGA cables?
>>3258345
You may or may not be able to, but you'll need a VGA to DB-15 adapter to try!
>>3258351
Will the monitor be damaged if plugged in as a secondary display and receiving high resolution signal before I can change it to 640X480?
>>3258384
I honestly don't know, my friend. I'm sure someone else more knowledgable can assist you better. I would start by figuring out exactly what model it is and what resolutions it can actually handle. I know a lot about vintage Apple hardware, but not a lot about using vintage displays on modern hardware...
Where is the lead located in a CRT's glass?
Is it evenly distributed throughout the glass, or is it a coating on the front, or rear surface of the tube?
I picked up a BVM with a small scratch on the screen (~1mm deep) and I'd like to have kids some day.
have crts been emulated in vr for the oculus rift yet
>>3258810
Not well.
You'll need actual 4k screens too I believe.
Is there any particular connector I'm looking for if I want to connect PS2 via component to BNC?
>>3258969
"Female RCA to BNC"
Radio Shack is asking ass-rape prices ($5-$8 each), Fry's and US ebay sellers are a bit more reasonable at ~$1.50 ish each when you buy a ten pack, and chinese ebay sellers have them for $0.75 each, probably cheaper if you order in bulk.
Something like this, less the retarded pricing: http://www.amazon.com/RiteAV-BNC-Male-Female-Adapter/dp/B000V1R97U
>>3256462
>hating literally the best Street Fighter game
>>3258973
This should do?
http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/bnc-plug-to-phono-socket-adapter-fa11m
>>3259045
>http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/bnc-plug-to-phono-socket-adapter-fa11m
Yeah. You'll need one for composite, three for component, or four for true RGB (RGB+csync).
I'd pick up four of those, then order a cheap 10 pack on the ebay slow boat.
I have a strange issue with my new BVM-14H5U.
I bought the BVM and a BKM-129X (RGBs input card) separately, since the BVM only came with HD/SDI and SDI decoders.
My issue is this: The monitor seems to have a garish red tint when playing 480i content. I thought I got fucking memed until I tried out some 480p stuff, and bam it made the whites great again, built a wall with mexico and everything was great again.
Going back to 480i content , the reddish tint is less now (???) but still there. For now I'm assuming there are different presets stored for different resolutions of content, anyone know where in the settings menu I should be looking? I also got a BKM-15R with the unit that I haven't unpacked yet.
Anybody got a dvd iso with smpte color bars? I'm looking for something I can play on my PS2.
Most of what I'm finding online so far is movie.exe levels of shady, and the non-shady stuff seems to be all bluerays as I guess the true home video duders have moved on.
>>3259004
Turd Strike is garbage
Only underage memers like you think it's good
It's slow as molasses,plays nothing like a Street Fighter game and it's unbalanced as fuck
>>3257328
>There is no difference between an emulated scanline or a genuine one.
Yes there is
Fake scanlines are just black lines drawn on top of upscaled bullshit
Get the fuck out of here
>>3257642
I have no idea what you're even talking about at this point
Some PC CRT Monitors out there accept 15khz signals
If you're referring to the scanlines being super thick in a GDM-FW900 then though shit that's the nature of really sharp monitors(though if you're at least 5 feet away from the monitor it shouldn't be too bad)...still better than ugly-ass fake scanlines
>>3259241
Resetting back to factory settings didn't clear it. I did some testing with SMPTE color bars on a DVD (crushed to hell blacks though) and made it a little better, but the problem persists.
The red tint is present even at low brightness, but when I crank up the brightness the whole screen turns red. When I switch it to 480p mode, the screen looks fucking great, and cranking up the brightness turns the screen pure grey like it's supposed to.
I am using a PS2, same cable for both 480i and 480p modes.
Anyone know how the BKM-129X works? So far I'm assuming that the input card itself is fine, and that I just need to find whereever the previous owner royally fucked up the settings for gain and bias for 480i content.
...found the gain and bias settings but they don't seem to be be doing much. I think the machine is just resetting things behind my back, or perhaps I haven't figured out how to save properly.
>>3259687
what's the actual difference though? in both cases the guns just aren't drawing anything on the blank sections in between the lines. sure each line is technically going to be made up of multiple thinner scanlines and might look overly crisp because of how focused the beam is, but is it really going to look that much different to the kind of scanlines you'll see on a pvm?
>>3259714
OK, got it fixed now. Kind of wonder how and why the previous owner got it that bad. Can actually play lightgun games now.
Picked up this Extron switch without entirely thinking. Anyone know the name of these audio connectors?
>>3259861
euroblock/phoenix connectors
>>3259879
Thanks kindly.
Would the easiest way of getting my consoles to plug into one be to solder female phono plugs onto the + and - pins of the euroblock?
>>3259894
You can buy the connectors that insert into those slots. These connectors terminate in screws for each pin.
Then you can buy RCA to screw terminal adapters. which take an RCA and make it a positive and negative terminal. and some wire to connect the screw terminals together
>>3259894
you could just cut the end off whatever you're using as an audio cable and use a captive screw terminal. or use
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-Of-5-5-Pole-Extron-Terminal-Blocks-Part-100-457-01-/262173333747
clip the end off decent audio cable like
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-Of-5-5-Pole-Extron-Terminal-Blocks-Part-100-457-01-/262173333747
ignore the center screw, shielding goes to - and the center goes to +, zip tie it to the block and Bob's your uncle.
>>3259919
too stoned.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Monoprice-7inch-3-5mm-Stereo-Male-2RCA-Female-22AWG-Cable-Gold-Plated-Black-/231417617220
>>3259698
the FW900 doesnt accept 15Khz signals
It's operating at 31 Khz because its doubling the refresh rate to 120Hz so lower resolutions are capable of running at 31Khz. (pssst it requires emulation and a filter)
So tell me, you fucking imbecile is that considered fake or real?
I'm sure by your thinking all emulators are fake dogshit anyway right?
>>3259687
you never replied to this
>>3259739
I've never seen such stupid fanboy-ism in my life
People complain about 20L5 guy but this takes the cake for the most retarded thing ive seen in this thread.
I've got an aperture grille CRT monitor with "ghosting" issues. How do I know what's causing it? I've heard it can be from a shit unshielded vga cable (not unlikely, my studio monitors seem to put off a lot of magnetic science energy) or phosphor decay. How do I tell what's causing it?
>>3260219
240@120hz produces way closer color and brightness than basic scanlines, because of double striking.
it's stupid sharp, but that's fw900 for you.
>>3254073
We're ALL in SCART country because the internet gets a retro SCART cable to your door for $25.
Plugging consoles into a permanent, short SCART lead off your TV is also way easier/cleaner than plugging and unplugging 5 RGB jacks
Drilling RCA jacks, lol
>>3260728
Stop jerking off to deprecated displays and join the 21st century already, faggots.
Help me out CRT friends.
I've spent the last few days with my BVM and it's very nice but what should I do to hook up headphones to it?
It has no audio output on it at all and plugging the RCAs straight into my headphones don't allow volume control.
What do?
>>3260830
Get a headphone amp
Hello. NEC CRT user here. Is it normal for the CRT to produce static on speakers? I have a relatively big speaker setup in the back of my room and when the CRT is on i can clearly hear the static noise when nothing's playing
Is there any way to fix this ?
>>3260830
"fiio e6"
<= $30 and you get two bass boost settings. /g/hpg also will have a bunch of recs for you, just make sure to specify a price range cause those guys are autistic just like us.
It is *possible* to use an RCA -> 3.5mm converter into a 3.5mm cord with volume control, but this does not produce good sound since game consoles were not meant to drive headphones directly.
What I'm using right now is an old set of 2.1 computer speakers (Creative T3000), the wired remote that comes with them has a headphone jack on it that disables the speakers. The volume control still works for controlling the headphones, would be god-tier if the bass knob worked for headphones too.
Question about RGB modded NTSC Nintendo 64 (with DIY amp).
If I get luma as sync RGB SCART cable for it and add a chip to get csync, can I also use this cable for Super Famicom?
The only real difference between drawing 480 lines 60 times per second with every other line blanked, and drawing 240 lines 120 times per second, is brightness. However, inserting black frames every other frame on the latter makes the brightness exactly the same as the former.
The only real difference between these two methods are
240p120Hz+black-frames has gaps that show up even at 100% black.
480p+blank-lines can display interlacing modes correctly if the line filter is capable of it.
240p120Hz+black-frames is more sensitive to any vsync issues with the emulator.
240p120Hz+black-frames has lower latency with Vsync due to 8ms frame times. But frame delay at 8ms gets you that regardless.
Either way, you want to do this on a monitor that can boost its light/color output through its settings, and isn't too high resolution (1280x1024 screens are fine)
>>3260890
mixers work good too as headphone amps and are price comparable.
If your cable is pulling Y from pin 7 and feeding it to a sync stripper it should work with both consoles.
If the cable pulls csync from pin 3 then it only works with snes/superfamicom.
Will I get input lag playing Gamecube when its composite input is used on an HDTV? I'm pretty certain I've noticed a difference between my CRT at home and the 1920x1200 HDTV at my friend's house. Gameplay in SSBM seems a bit sloppier and the character/stage select screens seem more sensitive to input, though this may just be me trying to make excuses for getting two-stocked. Is this lag real, and should I convince him to get a CRT to play Melee on?
>>3261441
>NOT RETRO REEEEEEEEEE
But yeah, HDTVs suck fucking dick wrt input lag. It's actually gotten worse over time as they cram in "smart" features, creepy 120hz motion interpolation, etc. Even on "game mode" most modern stuff adds 2-4 frames of lag. (~32-64 ms)
It probably won't help you get smoked, after all you were both playing with the same lag. Lag does give a slight advantage to "twitchy" characters though, as by the time you see a move you're 4 frames behind and it might be too late to counter.
You probably want a ~20 inch consumer set that only has composite inputs. Consumer stuff that takes component is usually a warning sign, lots of these will accept higher resolutions (good), but also will add 2 frames of scaler lag (bad) and deny you scanlines (bad).
This is the local autism general so we use fancy shit but that's only necessary if you care about good picture quality or lagless 480p and up.
If you live in a poor area, go hunt around thrift stores. My area just stopped stocking them sometime in the past year. Craigslist also has ~30" monstrosities, but that stuff is heavy as hell and a lot harder to justify the size/weight vs. picture quality ratio.
>>3261487
>~30" monstrosities
Yeah, but watch out for rear-projectors. Those distinctive large flatscreens (not all flatscreens are rear-projector, just the huge ones). They have awful picture for gaming.
>>3261487
I actually have been playing on a "flatscreen" Sony Trinitron CRT (hence why I noticed the lag on his TV) that takes component; it seems ok and I've heard good things about Trinitrons, but didn't know that there was any lag possibly associated with it. Should I try switching to the monstrous Sharp CRT also in my possession, or are is my model (KV-20FS100) good to go?
>>3261553
My flatscreen Samsung says "standard television" somewhere on the back sticker. Look for something like that. What you want is a Standard Definition set. Lag is caused by upscaling, de-interlacing, and other internal features on a high-def TV.
>>3261553
Just a question of how autistic you want to go, lad.
Before I knew lag existed I used to play on a similar flatscreen sony. Nobody told me it had lag and I never noticed.
Does yours display scanlines for 240p content? Does it allow you to input 480p and higher resolutions?
If "yes" and "no" then it's fine.
It died and I moved onto LCD. It's just when I decided to get back into CRTs that I decided to go balls-out with it and get an RGB, zero-lag monitor.
>>3261553
Hmm... I read through the manual here: https://docs.sony.com/release/KV13FS100.pdf
and it doesn't mention anything about 480p, resolution, HDTV etc. Most of them that do have this capability brag about it. I think you've got one of the goldilocks consumer sets that takes component (good picture quality) but doesn't fuck it up with scaler lag/scanline destroyers.
If you're playing on a gamecube, the cables are $200 (!!!). If you're playing on a backwards-compatible wii, they're like $8.
Plug in something /vr/ to your set and take a picture for us.
>>3261636
There were plenty of standard def consumer sets that take componenti. DVDs are essentially outputting component video and those were around long before HD became prevalent. The silver SD sony sets are everywhere, and those have component.
>>3261007
..why would you buy a sync on luma cable if you're going to restore csync?
>>3261649
They're actually somewhat rare in my area.
Most people here (my family included) went straight from those 20" ish fake-wooden-paneled, composite/rf-only sets to those massive "HD-ready" trinitrons.
Those two categories are all over my local CL, but very few newer 20" sets or component sets that don't do 480p.
It's all 13"-20" 'guest room' composhit or '2004's pride and joy' type sets.
>>3254070
>>3254073
Think he means the scart connector not being fully populated.
>>3256347
>>3257745
>>3254082
>>3254153
>>3254393
>>3256327
>>3260728
Any video connector that carries a power line with it is garbage. SCART is the worst connector you could use for RGBS.
At best you can just wire the RGB and S lines. Still a huge connector that has limitation in size of coax you can use.
HD15/VGA is a much better connector if you wanted something in place of scart.
>>3254393
>then start selling Nintendo multi-AV to BNC cables. I'd buy 'em.
Ya start selling BNC breakout connectors to ignorant people. What could possibly go wrong?
>>3261591
I'm not trying to go too autistic; I just want something that can give a pretty decent picture (which mine already does, even without component cables) and doesn't have the lag the most HDTVs do. I already have a larger Sharp CRT that I may use for an amateur tournament later on this month, but I'd prefer to play on this Trinitron since it looks significantly better.
>>3261636
I'm using a backwards compatible Wii, so no problems getting a component cable if I decide to. Anyways, here's SimCity (running in an emulator outputting 240p)
>>3261712
Another picture of the whole TV
>>3261727
I don't use scart to being with.
>>3261712
And here's the same picture on my other CRT. It's significantly bigger, but has much worse sound (not a huge deal since I could hook it up to my sound system, but I'd rather not have to deal with that) and the picture just seems duller.
>>3261712
Yeah, if you've got scanlines you're safe. Getting a better picture than that trinitron is going to be a bit expensive. You can get lagless 480p with high end monitors (PVM/BVM, assorted other manufacturers) but they get pretty retarded if you want them bigger than 14" and/or in mint condition
So for your friend just try to find him a set like yours (assuming he actually wants one). Now you know what to look for: feed a 240p signal into it and watch for scanlines. I use a PSP with the tv out cables so that you don't have to scrounge for a power outlet when you're at goodwill/some craigslist dude's house etc.
The only real path upwards for you would be 20" RGB monitors (~$200) 14" RGB multiscan (~$200) or a 20"+ RGB multiscan ($500 and up). ((You can find 'deals' or even for 'free', but you're investing your time === money into that search)
I'd only bother upgrading if you get the desire to play lagless sixth gen in 480p. If you have the money to spare you could be king of the hill at the local smash tournament.
>>3261712
>>3261739
Yeah, trinitrons have ruined me and I can't stand slot mask any more.
One thing I do notice about zooming in on your first pic is that the scanlines are there, but not very deep. It's a matter of personal preference, but the higher res monitors will have much deeper scanlines. On my ~800 tvl monitors the spaces in between are 100% black and the same width as the raster lines, on my 450 TVL the scanlines are still completely black but are a bit narrower than the drawn lines.
An RGB monitor will get you deeper scanlines and more accurate, vibrant colors. It's up to you to decide how much it's worth to you.
(You'll also gain much better horizontal resolution but nearly everything is overkill for /vr/ stuff with only 320 to 224 pixels).
You could look into a little 14" if you just want some nice eye candy to sit on top of your desk.
CRTs over 20" don't really float my boat. The professional stuff is like 2x heavier for the same screen size, so anything professional over 20" is kind of a nightmare to move around in addition to being rare, expensive, and a major, major pain in the ass.
>>3261689
>mentions DE-15/VGA, but doesn't actually include it
>Includes D-Terminal, which has next to no use for retro consoles, aside from MAYBE PSP PS1 eboots
>complains about power being sent along the cable despite both of the above carrying DC voltage, the latter having up three with similar functions to SCART
Could really use some work.
>>3261689
What about VCD?
>>3261765
>Yeah, trinitrons have ruined me and I can't stand slot mask any more.
What's so good about aperture grille other than increased brightness?
>>3262040
>complains about power being sent along the cable despite both of the above carrying DC voltage, the latter having up three
Except none of those carry voltage for the application described. They're between 3 and 5 conductors.
>>3262103
You yourself said the same could be done with SCART, and I can't see someone going and making custom D-Terminal cables unless MAYBE they have a FrameMeister, and even then I think that may only take the expected Component over that port.
Not even arguing against what you're saying, just that it needs work.
>>3262118
It doesn't need work because that how it is.
SCART by the stnadards in 3rd world needs the power line to switch the 3rd world TVs from composite to RGB. Or maybe the other way around. I could not care at all to look that shit up. Just know it needs it.
>>3262127
Aaaand in the application you're talking about(adapting SCART based RGB to non-SCART based devices), they're not required at all.
D-Terminal may not need voltage to switch between signals, but it does control aspect ratio in the same exact way as SCART, and in situations where the display itself has said input, for resolution and video mode(i/p) control.If JP-21 wasn't a thing and it had more use with retro consoles, I wouldn't be surprise if someone started calling it weebSCART or something equally stupid just to be obnoxious.
And again, you didn't even include said DE-15/"HD15" VGA connector.
>>3262095
I just don't like the zig-zag, bucktoothed look it gives.
I suppose it's also because it tends to be correlated with the cheapest possible sets and .79mm g-g pitch. I probably wouldn't object so much if they didn't have that diagonal offset or came in .21mm pitch.
>>3262169
>Aaaand in the application you're talking about(adapting SCART based RGB to non-SCART based devices), they're not required at all.
SCART TVs need it. It is NEEDED by a that application. Most anything that uses SCART NEEDS the power line.
>If JP-21
JP 21 is very different to SCART.
>>3262280
We're (or at least I) am talking about people not in Europe that use/have used SCART for RGB access, not countries and electronics with "native" SCART support.
>(to NON-SCART based devices
In these situations, a SCART cable with pins 2, 6, 7, 11, 15, and 20 along with ground will function exactly the same, with 2 and 6 not being necessary should you decide to run audio separately.
JP-21 is the same connector with a very different (and at a glance, a much better chosen/organized) pinout.
>>3262319
I'm not aware of much or anything really that uses SCART and doesn't need the power line.
>JP-21 is the same connector with a very different (and at a glance, a much better chosen/organized) pinout.
Same connector. Different standards. JP21 hasn't needed the power line in devices since the 90s and probably earlier.
