Why does everyone dislike this game?
Dissappointed at how tedious the fighting engine is. I learned to appreciated it a lot more after I learned how to min max the equipment crafting system.
>>3236247
I don't.
But I gather that people dislike it for being a beat-em-up. And if you do any of the unnecessary stuff (seed/golem/pet) game becomes too easy.
But honestly I don't mind any of those.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hW-MHssUd8
>>3236252
Yeah, I have to agree with this.
I will also add that I appreciated the characters and story a lot more as I got older. It is extremely shallow for someone young or without any worldly experience. And so as a teen much was lost on me. But it can also be very rich if you've ever had to deal with adversity and are into philosophy. As an adult I consider it rather brilliant.
>>3236276
>Romeo-like bard character
>spends an entire episode trying to woo his dream girl
>After talking he realizes they just don't have anything in common; crushing disappointment ensues
>>3236247
You need a Doctorate to understand the game mechanics
It was just a start of a drastic change to the series. They got rid of Hiroki Kikuta who was doing absolutely fine, Shinichi Kameoka's style clashes against previous games of the series' work by Hiroo Isono and Nobuteru Yūki who tried to work with each other. In fact, Kameoka's the worst one out of all Square illustrator because he just can't draw a male looking boy. Even outside of the look and sound, the game plays drastically different, going from a semi linear story driven team based action RPG to a single player focused make-your-own adventure beat-em-up hybrid. Nobody I know IRL could have gotten to the ending without looking up a guide. That's not really the case with SD 1-3 & Evermore which were just easygoing adventures to unwind. The game got rid of numerical indicators which dampens sense of progression. It was a beautiful and a deep game in its right, but it was just too big of a hurdle to cross for a lot of returning fans.
>>3236395
>implying Yoko Shimomura isn't god tier
This was my first PS1 game along with Tomb Raider. When I first was playing it, (probably 11 or something), the story wasn't my focus but the endless hours I got from creating stuff, growing the garden, and raising creatures. It was the first Mana game I played and to this day I still like it for what it does. I understand that it isn't anything like the SNES games. I think also what hooked me was trying to complete all the story lines. I always hated the Dub bear part though. Selling lamps suck.
>be me
>be playing the game
>enjoy talking to your pet cactus after finishing every episode
>one day the cactus leaves
>tfw
>now I don't feel like playing anymore
So yeah I'm such a faggot I know but I seriously stopped playing because of that.
>>3236395
>Nobody I know IRL could have gotten to the ending without looking up a guide
whaaaat I did just fine, you only need to finish two quest lines to unlock the mana tree
>>3236551
You're supposed to go after him, he gets back to his spot after finishing the quest.
>>3236406
The point is that there was nothing wrong with Hiroki Kikuta. She belongs to anime industry, anyway. Every game she worked on has failed.
>>3236551
Pretty sure that faggot cactus gets lost in the Game Boy Advance game, too.
>>3236247
I think it's a pretty comfy game, fun to play with friends too.
Pearl a cute and the OST is godly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3ipuQeuVvQ
>>3236336
I feel similarly. The mechanics are very esoteric and not explained well, if at all. When I play it I get the worrying feeling that if I am not doing everything "exactly" right I am missing out on potential quests, items, and whatnot. It makes playing the game a drag, despite its extremely high audio/visual polish.
The combat system is a little clunky as you scoot around your enemies to land blows as well.
I've been wanting to get back into the game, but with so many other RPGs to play, it doesn't make a great case, especially with its nonlinear and extremely muted (if not entirely absent) story.
Worse co-op, controls felt more sluggish and laggier than the SNES Mana games, having to unlock pieces of the overworld was stupid, and your player character wasn't as interesting as one of the characters you could choose from SoM or SD3. Also casual by letting you restart from the point you died at. Music was pretty great though.
>>3237802
Kill your SNES-kun.
>>3237802
See, this is exactly what I was talking about in my earlier post. I felt the same way as this person back when I was a sheltered teen.
But the thing that's so great about the game is that the world is what you make it, and the character you play is just supposed to be an outside observer moreso than a direct protagonist.
Also, yeah battles are rather dull. Never did die, even on No Future Mode. Surprised that you would not have to start from your last save though.
>>3236247
I like it. I only played it once a long time ago but I love the aesthetic and music, which I still remember. I do remember getting lost easily and having to look up a guide to know what to do next but that's because I wasn't too familiar with non-linear games back then.
At a glance now, the non-male looking male character designs bother me a bit too much but I think I'll appreciate the whole game a lot more if I replay it. The script was a bit sarcastic and self-aware if I remember correctly.
>>3236247
i love it but its bizarre how the combat turned out.
it has slow movement in combat but if you wiggle up and down while moving horizontally, you move at super fast speed.
the weapon styles have preset combo strings but simply tapping the button at a set rhythm results in an infinite combo.
the ai is super bad too, and you get auto healed after battle and get to retry fights on the spot.
>>3236247
>everyone
>dislike
I don't, but I sure do hate the combat system specifically. It's terrible as a beat-em-up, and terrible as an Action-RPG combat system.
You'd think the devteam would've seen Tales and/or Star Ocean's combat systems and patterned theirs after that, but nooooo...
>>3239790
The thought to classify LoM as a beat-em-up never once occurred to me.
>>3239795
That's what the combat system always reminded me of: a shitty side-scrolling beat-em-up.
>>3239790
>Star Ocean's combat system
Now, I can't deny that LoM battle system was garbage, like most of the Mana games anyway, but saying Star Ocean shold be an example of a good Action RPG battle system is frankly jarring.
>>3239820
>Star Ocean shold be an example of a good Action RPG battle system
Except I didn't say that, did I?
All I said was that it came out before LoM, was better than LoM's and that the devteam could've patterned theirs after it.
In any case, of all the games I've played that were released before LoM, those are the only ones I can think of whose battle system might be a good fit.
>>3237214
It's not like Kikuta was there from the beginning either. Kenji Ito did the first game's soundtrack.
Also I'm pretty sure Shimomura has never worked in the anime industry, and she's been involved with many successful games. Are you sure you aren't confusing her with someone else.
>>3239820
>was better than LoM
First of all, it was a completely different concept and engine, so they're not even remotely comparable.
Secondly, Star Ocean, and by extension Star Ocean's 2 combat systems were absolute garbage that was by far more boring, broken and ill designed than that mess that is LoM's battle system.
And to this day the only "good" entry in the SO franchise that has interesting combat design is SO4, and it's still a completely archaic system in both design and execution to the point that Tales of Eternia's combat is far more entertaining and deeper.
>and that the devteam could've patterned theirs after it.
For what reasons?
Mana wasn't even remotely similar in concept to either Tales or Star Ocean since the very beginning, it was basically a Zelda clone with RPG mechanics, Tales and SO are a completely different beasteven though ironically the latest games of both series tried to eliminate the transition to battle maps by keeping the fights on the overworld, and they were fucking disasters with subpar combat.
>>3236247
A lot of people like that game. Personally I think it has a lot of great things about it but is ultimately disappointing because it's combat isn't as good as the other Seiken games. And when it really comes down to it, 95% of the game is combat.
Also it has a really interesting and in depth crafting system, but it's ultimately pointless because the hardest difficulty mode is bugged with gimped HP on enemies so there's no point in making the really amazing weapons.
It's one of the most beautiful games ever made though and the story being told as a series of vignettes was really cool. With better combat and a fixed difficulty it could have been 10/10.
>>3236252
As someone who'll be playing this game soon, any tips or things I should know to make the experience more enjoyable for myself?
>>3239932
It depends. If you think you might play it more than once, then I would just say hop in and enjoy the experience. It's pretty short and if you like it then that will leave you with things to explore and do on another playthrough at a harder difficulty.
On the other hand if you think you'll only play it once and want to get as much out of it as you can then you will want to use a guide for where to put your lands. Basically, in the game you get each area as an item and then decide where to put it on a map. And both where you place them and what other areas are near by will affect various things in the game.
Personally I think it's more fun to just go in blind and experience the game as you get it the first time, but it's up to you. This is a good guide to use. http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/256525-legend-of-mana/faqs/10037
>>3239940
I think I'll just go in blind then. Thanks. Still unsure whether to play it in Eng/Fr or Japanese though. Doesn't seem too hard to read from what I'm seeing over google.
>>3239970
Cool, have fun! It's a pretty neat little game.
>>3239983
Cheers thanks.
Combat is just really slow and sluggish which makes it really disappointing.
Magic system is a joke.
There was real no main line story other than the mini ones which were okay but not really great.
The only thing i like about LoM is the music and art but everything else is a total miss.
>>3236247
I really enjoyed the game, I have fond memories of it back when it was new.
I repurchased it on PSN but can't seem to get back into it.
>>3236247
Gameplay was trash, boring, and easy. The non-linearity is an illusion, and the dungeons are short as fuck.
The game and soundtrack is goddamn beautiful but the gameplay itself is really bad. If anything needs a remake, it's this.
>>3236247
I liked it. I do understand why people don't though, it was very different from its predecessors.
Pros:
Gorgeous watercolor art style.
Robust skill system, with some skills able to be combined
Large selection of weapon types with different fighting styles
Great soundtrack https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVFN9-grkuo
Plenty of optional content
High replayability
Well crafted world and lore
Excellent usage of philosophical themes
Cons:
Combat can be a chore
Magic is useless
Smithing practically requires a college degree
Higher difficulties just add health and damage to enemies
Obscure element system for map placement that can lock you out of sidequests
Overall plot is weak, the game feels like one long series of sidequests
Despite involvement in the main quests, you feel more like an observer watching plot happen to everyone else
The disjointed nature of the game and its plot also results in the game feeling unfinished, or leaving you with the feeling that you're always missing something
Tropicallo
>>3236309
Then later on he makes an erection joke while trying to woo the hot monstergirl teacher in Geo.
>>3244761
>Tropicallo
Huh, why's that a con?
>>3245028
The fight against Tropicallo is the most tedious fight in the game. And you do it twice.
Tropicallo has three parts:
>The main body, which you can't hurt directly.
>An arm that uses physical attacks.
>An arm that uses magic.
You win the fight by destroying the main body. The only way to destroy the main body is to attack and destroy the arms, which damage Tropicallo as they respawn. The problem is that they only do a set amount of damage, and Tropicallo has a fuckhuge life bar. This results in a stupidly long fight waiting for the arms to respawn so you can kill them again.
In addition, one of the arms, when killed, will explode after a few seconds. This explosion is large enough to cover more than half of the area you fight in, AND can be strong enough to one-shot you. Which means whittling down the main health bar from scratch.
Oh, and one last cherry on top: the damage you do by destroying the arms is the same regardless of difficulty.
On the higher difficulties, the only thing that changes is monsters get more health and do more damage. This applies to Tropicallo. This means on the highest difficulties the fight can go on for up to an hour and the kamikaze attack WILL one-shot you.
Fuck Tropicallo.
I liked it, save for the absolutely cryptic smithing system that never gets explained.
Years after beating LoM, I found a guide to crafting the game's strongest weapons. Very specific series of items required, needed to apply them in an exact order, most were rare items that take more time to collect than to finish the game 10x over.
>>3245596
Meh, lrn2wepz and kill him in 2 hits tops.
Also, he cannot touch you in the bottom left corner, from what I recall. I maxxed the HP stat and recall crouching there for half a minute or so until I had max life again.
Been a long time though. I might be wrong. Should play again this year...
>>3236247
It's one of my type 5 games ever, and secret is on that least as well.
This game was just waaaaaay too comfy too hate.
I get why people were mad, I just dont give a damn.
>>3236267
Hey look, a guy who gets it.
Final Fantasy Adventure (Seiken Densetsu: Final Fantasy Gaiden) was a fun, if simple Legend of Zelda clone which didn't do much that stood out, but was entertaining.
Secret of Mana (Seiken Densetsu 2) was a brilliant gem, despite being forced onto a cartridge, which had a solid, focused story and had a strong emphasis on the core cast.
We didn't get SD3, so let's skip that.
Legend of Mana was a side-scrolling beat'em-up with a decided lack of focus on the character you control or the characters you interact with. It's basically Sidequests: The Game, and you have no reason to care about the characters you interact with or any overall goal.
Legend of Mana is pretty, but hilariously shallow.
>>3248728
Almost all of Legend of Mana's depth exists outside of gameplay, aside from that oh so common theme off hope and courage and love overcoming all obstacles.
The real meat of it lies in the indecision and directionlessness of the individual characters within the story, which very closely mirrors the situation we face in real life. In the very best of cases we're faced with a world of supposedly limitless freedom and possibility, but very real, physical limitations. To decide how to even live or even why is like some sort of impossible request for a magic trick of somehow transforming a zero-sum equation into something of actual possibility. Faced with infinite options how do you choose anything? All the answers end up being something akin to "because I don't want to be alone", "because I refuse to let what is precious to me be taken away", "because I refuse to be controlled and owned by someone else", and that is absolutely just fucking fine with me.
I fucking love this game.
This game is absolutely beautiful, i can revisit year after year and find something new in it. Its not a novel, its a book of poems. Its got all the best pieces of an MMO in its DNA and feels so ahead of its time. The characters show up briefly but I found rather memorable.
>>3248728
if you havent played sd3 you shouldn't even talk about the franchise, it blows the first two games out the water
>>3236247
Everyone?
I don't.
>>3248728
Akshully there are two main quest lines that are important to the plot. The ones with the different title card, about the dragons and the gemmas.
>>3248878
>he didn't even find the faerie quest
>>3236247
Alright, what's a 5th gen era jrpg with really nice spritework guys? I got a craving for that. Something breezy.
>>3248949
Legend of Mana
Saga Frontier 2
Guardian Heroes
Nanatsu no Kaze Shima Monogatari
Elemental Gimmick Gear (kind of a boring game though)
Alundra
Wild Arms
King of Fighters and Street Fighter
Metal Slug
Star Ocean 2
Valyrie Profile
Tales of Phantasia/Destiny/Eternia
Chippoke Ralph
Heart of Darkness
Tactics Ogre (more in the context of having been made on SNES originally)
off the top of my head I don't feel like thinking of any more that apply specifically to the 5th gen
It was a let down to me. SNES SoM immersed you in a beautiful world, and this didnt really do that. My favorite games are games that have a real atmosphere feel to them. Like you feel youre in the game world.
>>3248949
lunar, arc the lad, xenogears, tales of phantasia/eternia/destiny
>>3248949
breath of fire 3
>>3248846
Oh, I have. As soon as LNF dropped the translation, I hit it up.
>>3248780
My nigga. Well said.
