>>3225740
Etrian Odyssey is the only example I can think of.

>>3225740
>Also are there any turn-based jrpgs where you can create your own character?
HEY GUYS. HE WANTS TO KNOW IF THERE ARE ANY ROLEPLAYING GAMES WHERE YOU CAN, GET THIS...MAKE YOUR OWN CHARACTER! LOLOLOLOL

>>3225740
>micro manage
Only a few games do this, managing skill slots and equipment is hardly micromanagement.
Honestly, most turn based RPGs are pretty primitive to this day, the genre has been stagnating since a long time, though what genre didn't at the end of the day?
If you ask me, I like the fact that the actually good ones require planning, I like games where you have to balance out the odds in your favour and figure out things, the turn based elements also give you some pretty good potential in terms of mechanics if you like domino systems, but then again, it's a matter of taste.
>Also are there any turn-based jrpgs where you can create your own character?
Sure.
>Something high fantasy besides the DS Dragon Quest game.
Uh, what else do you need? Hot coffee and a hug?
Google is your friend, especially since you bring non retro games here, besides, if you like the genre you should already know quite a few titles, retro or not.

>>3225740
Dragon Quest 3 was fun, if that's close enough to what you're looking for. Try a fan-translation of the SNES version. There's a version that stays faithful to the NES translation and one that stays faithful to the original Japanese script, if I remember correctly.

Record of Lodoss War
Tunnels & Trolls: Crusaders of Khazan

>>3225740
FFV is great about this with the Job system. Same with FFIII, but it's a little unrefined.

>>3225862
>Honestly, most turn based RPGs are pretty primitive to this day
What's missing? I mean, what features would you like to see in the management department of a TB RPG?

>>3226073
>I mean, what features would you like to see in the management department of a TB RPG?

I don't know, most turn based RPGs still lack different weapon type damage to this day, despite it being a staple in a lot of other games and action RPGs, they also like proper armor defense stats besides elemental ones.

Most stats and damage multipliers still work very primitively and they're actually one of the major reasons as to why the games are easy to break, most equipment isn't properly balanced so that you might need to swap around pieces of armor or weapons depending on the situation, save for the obligatory embedded element, but rather work on a typical ladder system so whatever you get at the end of the game outclasses everything else, much like most MMOs.

Another thing I don't like is that most RPGs don't make turn rolls properly and instead use whatever stat is associated to calculate turns using simple additions, coupled with the fact that stats are almost always put in the player's favour that leads to enemies either not being able to get some chances to fight back or being relegated to work on passive counter tools in order to put up a challenge.

Rolls in general are losing importance with each game when it comes to everything but damage and defense calculations, even criticals are being hit by this, see the SMT series, which is a shame since rolls are supposed to be a staple of the genre, but then again, most people can't handle or deal with the element of randomness.

Still only a few games use combo systems where you can chain attacks with your party members, and when they do it's so shallow it completely destroys the system since combos can be achieved effortlessly, see games like Mana Khemia.

A lot of games still don't have range calculations or gimmicks for your attacks like the late Metal Max games do.

At least less and less games are using random encounters though, or give you a way to control them, that's a good thing.

>>3225876
Is Dragon Quest honestly the only franchise that does this? I don't care much for the first person perspective.

>>3226198
I'm pretty sure that Dragon Quest's first person is only in battles. It's not like SMT dungeon crawling.

>>3225740

>turn-based
>micro-manage

mfw RTS games are pico-managing games

>>3225740
I like being able to input commands for each character without dealing with A.I.s
RPGs with real time combat are fine as well, but only if it has no A.I. party members - they just feel like glorified NPCs that are cutting into my play time imo

turn based games also offer more opportunities to include some unique mechanics

>>3225740
>Also are there any turn-based jrpgs where you can create your own character?
I would like to know this also. I really don't think there's any JRPG that lets you do that. Hell, there's very few retro games outside of CRPGs that let you create a character at all.

FF7 actually has a pretty neat story and gameplay mechanics.

Too bad fanboys ruined the reputation.

>>3226092
Spot on post.

>>3230487
FF7 is kinda like SotN in some ways, it focuses more on being a fun experience with lots of gimmicks than posing a challenge.

>>3230531
might as well say "FF7 is kinda like Animal Crossing in some ways". At least that way you wouldn't piss on a good game, and the similarity you picked would still work.

>>3230535
Which good game? Both are pretty weak entries that casualized their respective series.

>>3230546
SotN obviously.

>>3230193
>I really don't think there's any JRPG that lets you do that.
>there's very few retro games outside of CRPGs that let you create a character at all.

You think very wrong, both retro and non retro wrong.

Seriously, do you guys really like turn based RPGs? And I don't mean "Yeah dude, FF/Wizardry ftw", like, have you even played more than five different RPGs? Because not even language barrier is a good excuse for not being able to name at least three console turn based JRPGs with character creation, and if you want to go not retro and/or include JP only stuff there's even more games.
>>3230527
To be honest there's a lot more that I should have added, but I didn't feel like making walls of text.

The problem with RPGs is that people mainly play them for the story, even more so for JRPGs unfortunately, so while there are some mechanically compelling games they usually get disregarded because they don't have "good stories", though people keep gobbling on the same two or three fucking shitty storyline templates but with different character names and hairdos each time and praise it as good storytelling for some unknown reason.

I mean, people praise Planescape Torment when it's a shallow, boring, unbalanced mess gameplay wise, same with most JRPGs, at this point I don't even blame devs too much for not even trying making a good game, if this is the sort of audience for the genre is it really worth spending months and money making a complex and engaging game system when people are going to bitch that it gets in the way of the story?

And getting back to the main topic, what does CC even add to the game at the end of the day? Unless you want to play games where you make each character in your party the CC is merely a formality in the vast majority of cases, one wild card won't change the game too much, though it's great stuff in terms of cosmetics, that's for sure.

>>3231121
You can tailor your party to your liking. Even if other characters are premade you often get a choice on who you take with you.

>>3231121
Well could you please help then and name some of those games, please?

>>3231135
>You can tailor your party to your liking.

That's not really true, having the choice of creating one main character isn't really that much tailoring, otherwise you could argue that the simple fact of being able to swap around party members counts as customization.

>Even if other characters are premade you often get a choice on who you take with you.

And you quite often can't remove the MC from the party in favor of others, so where's the customization or creation aspect?

>>3231157
>Well could you please help then and name some of those games

Should I really? Google is there for a reason you know,

But anyway, just to drop a few names so you don't have an excuse for shitposting:

SaGa/Final Fantasy Legends games lets you create all characters in your party, SaGa 3 is a bit of weird case so I wouldn't really count it, since you can't "create" them as they're all prenamed even though they can be made or changed into whatever you want through the game.

Dark Law allows you to create all characters in the game based on four main templates, you can even choose how many party members you want to have in the game, meaning you can even decide to solo.

Any Wizardry Gaiden game.

Any Lunatic Dawn game with Odyssey being probably one of the most relevants in the series, Lunatic Dawn 3 doesn't count because it's not turn based.

Zill O'll.

A few SRW games also let you do this to some extent.

If you want a hybrid turn based RTS hybrid look no further than Ogre Battle.

As it has been mentioned before, certain DQ titles also allow you to do this.

Laplace no Ma.

If you want not retro then there's a whole load of games that lets you create your MC and in a lot of cases also all party members, see Elminage, Seventh Dragon, Frontier Gate etc.

If you want more than that, Google it, I'm not wasting my time making a comprehensive list of all the retro RPGs to spoonfeed you, the simple fact that no one even mentioned the FFL/SaGa games tells a lot.

>>3231193
Now you're just being contrarian. Swapping around party members is obviously a kind of customization.
Being able to make your own character because he can't be removed like the rest is part of the point.

I also think in a game like Ultima 4-6 it helps to identify with your avatar by experiencing him come to existence instead of having to identify with some random dude.

>>3231193
Thanks for the list, I will check these out.

>>3231204
I don't want to identify with fictional characters though, that's autism.

>>3231226
Yes. That's why you can identify as yourself instead of some fictional character.

>>3231231
Self-insert is what 12 year olds and manchildren do in their power-fantasy typo-ridden sonic fanfics.

>>3231204
>Swapping around party members is obviously a kind of customization.

Is swapping guns in Doom customization to you?

>Being able to make your own character because he can't be removed like the rest is part of the point.

It's really not, it's just an obsolete design choice that adds next to nothing to the game.

I shouldn't be forced to have my MC fighting if I don't want to, permanently locking a character slot is the epithome of lazy and archaic design, luckily certain games let you avoid that.


>I also think in a game like Ultima 4-6 it helps to identify with your avatar by experiencing him come to existence instead of having to identify with some random dude.

That's a decision almost purely related to the narrative though, as much as you're correct I'm talking about game mechanics, I don't care about narrative.

Let's put it this way, if you care about party composition then having a game with a locked MC slot means you have less freedom and customization possibilities than you'd like to, if you care about general strategy and game design it means you have one fixed factor in the big picture and you're forced to make the system work around it in a way or another instead of having something more fluid.

It's mostly a matter of taste, but if you're someone like me who cares about "traditional" and expansive role playing you're probably not going to be too happy about it, unless there some real fucking good MC creation/customization process and actual roleplaying behind it.
>>3231215
Keep in mind that those are only some of the most popular games that do this, if you want more there's quite a lot to play even today.

>>3231254
>epitome of lazy and archaic design,
There's worse.

The narrative is part of the game mechanics.

>>3231282
>The narrative is part of the game mechanics.

That's not inherently bad though.

You can integrate narrative in the game's mechanics, but it has to be well done.

See Rudra no Hihou, the fact that you can play as three different MCs that meet up at points but all explore different parts of the same world, and sometimes even the same dungeons but at different times is a good example of integrating narrative into gameplay, even though the plot itself was so so.

The problem is when narrative takes precedence on everything else AND it's done in the blandest way possible, like most RPGs.

You can tie a lot of the mechanics of games into narrative, turn based games even more so, but only a few designers actually tapped into that and fewer still actually made good stuff out of that.

Sometimes even games with so so mechanics had narrative implemented well into gameplay.

Let's take Wild Arms 2 for instance, Ashley's transformation in to Knight Blazer isn't just a cutscene, you directly PLAY as him undergoing the transformation through a series of battles, little else is done through cutscenes, same with games like Romancing SaGa 3 in parts like the battle against Jackal, all your characters except the MC fell into traps while getting to him and just when you thought you had to fight him alone they gradually come back in each turn DURING the battle, striking their pose and jumping right besides your MC, no dialogues, no cutscenes, just raw narrative implemented into the game's mechanic.

>>3225740
The only turn-based ones I can think of where you can micro-manage are FF12 with all gambits turned off for everyone as well as Ni No Kuni

>>3231121
>what does CC even add to the game at the end of the day?
It allows the player to see an extension of themselves interacting with a party/world. it allows them to experience themselves traveling to a fantasy world and meeting these interesting characters for the first time ever. Thats what I want and no its not the same with premade characters.

>>3231226
Its not about what you want its about what other people might like. Its not autism stop using dumb buzzwords to describe something you dont like.

>>3231708
Character creation. not character customization. if you didnt have a game then you should have just said so.

>>3225740
i've very poor reflexes in daily life. i suppose that may've lead me to strategy and turn based games over action/fps.

>>3225837
>turn-based jrpgs

I don't see why that's so odd. JRPGs are often more linear than WRPGs in how you design characters.

You can often rename a character but that's usually it. People talk about the new EO game being revolutionary for allowing you to change your character's color scheme because for a jrpg it's a rarity.

>>3237298
>You can often rename a character but that's usually it.
Are there any WRPG that allow you to do that?
I don't really know many that let you change a color scheme.

Linear character development, i.e. the character has a single class he sticks with, isn't uncommon, especially for retro RPGs.