Was I supposed to feel bad for these fucks?
The nose knows.
Im acturally playing through chrono cross for my first time. The dwarves are fucking assholes.
But yeah, i think so
>>3186737
I didn't feel bad for any of the demi-humans.
That whole subplot was full of terrible characters.
That game made me feel bad, but only for playing it at all. Cross is complete shit and the threads really need to stop popping up.
>>3186737
No, of course not, why the fuck would you think that?
>>3187629
Lmao, it's almost like there's a hide thread option.
And I have never not killed the hydra. The slaughter of the fairies or whatever that ensues makes me feel poorly though.
>>3187657
If you have Razzly in your team, she'll find that the Hydra had some baby Hydras when you kill it.
This also changes Water Dragon Isle, where, after destroying the Hi-Ho Tank, Razzly tells the head dwarf about it and he goes "Oh shit, we fucked up REAL bad" and heads back to the marsh instead of dying while whining about how HUMANS ARE EVIL GRRRR.
That doesn't stop me from killing all of the Dwarves on Water Dragon Isle, though.
>>3186737
Eh, Waluigi gets what he deserves in my opinion
>>3187717
>If you have Razzly in your team, she'll find that the Hydra had some baby Hydras when you kill it.
>This also changes Water Dragon Isle, where, after destroying the Hi-Ho Tank, Razzly tells the head dwarf about it and he goes "Oh shit, we fucked up REAL bad" and heads back to the marsh instead of dying while whining about how HUMANS ARE EVIL GRRRR.
This also causes you to lose out on picking up Razzly's third unique element. Tradeoffs, yo.
If the fairies where the ones who killed the dwarfs and took their territory would you feel the same?
Chrono Cross had some interesting and sometimes fun mechanics, some really nice music, but holy fuck the writing and final boss fights were fucking horseshit and I hate myself for finishing the game. I could've better spent that time learning an actual skill.
>That nose
No
>>3186737
No, they were morons.
That tank was hella sweet though.
>>3186737
You are *supposed* to. But the whole thing is shoehorned so badly, that you just don't.
They should hi-ho in hell the hypocritical motherfuckers.
Subplots like that are what makes me think of Chrono Cross as a complete disaster. At least that one wasn't full of hour long dungeons with trivial puzzles and extremely easy battles.
Good OST attached to a game that was barely worth a playthrough.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-IJvyAayzA
>>3189908
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOD0Sfds0ZI
>>3189916
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA9-cK7hnrY
Christ, am I the only one who actually likes this game?
>>3189918
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEi8086_HbM
>>3189927
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vk8I-YGF1QA
>>3189931
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XsXfL9-x_c
>>3189939
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adGbNrp9WjE
>>3189942
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wADrZNACx-o
>>3189920
I think its a decent game. Especially as far as the atmosphere and music are concerned.
I can't stand its writing or characters though.
>>3189947
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qLqtVKqw1o
>>3189920
Short answer, yes.
Long answer, just kidding. You see, the game completely sucks as a sequel for Trigger. It disregards the entire setting, established lore and characters to do pretty much its own thing. And it's terrible, the writing is all over the place, the game is extremely easy, the dungeons take too long unless you are gunning for the exit, there are a lot of cool Elements to use, but they are barely needed because battles just require doing raw damage saving for about 3-4 exceptions, and the connection to Trigger is just...shoehorned in form of cameos and minor connections. Not to mention that while it has some cool characters, they have virtually no development.
That said, the combat system had some cool ideas, the setting is pretty interesting if you disregard all connections to Trigger, and has a bunch of cool moments.
If it had better writing, removed all the Trigger connections, went away with the shitty environmentalist messages (they make no sense in a setting like El Nido), more difficult combat to make actual strategic use of those cool Elements, fleshed out characters a bit more and made dungeons and loot more interesting, it could have been a pretty good standalone game.
I think there are two major reasons this game gets so much vocal hatred. One is being a poor fanfic-tier sequel, the other is a lot of wasted potential. It could have been so much better.
Hell, I hate it yet but I don't like that I have to hate it. It was so close to being good.
>>3191334
I never cared much for Chrono trigger and always thought it was pretty meh, so apparently I didn't have some grandiose expectation/care for its predecessor so I liked what CC did way more than CT.
>>3189920
It's not such a good game from the gameplay point of view, but all the rest is easily a 8/10, much better than its predecessor in terms of scenario, characters and aesthetic though.
>>3191334
>the writing is all over the place, the game is extremely easy, the dungeons take too long unless you are gunning for the exit, there are a lot of cool Elements to use, but they are barely needed because battles just require doing raw damage saving for about 3-4 exceptions
All of these points can be used for Trigger too.
>and the connection to Trigger is just...shoehorned in form of cameos and minor connections.
So you can't read? That must be awful.
>Not to mention that while it has some cool characters, they have virtually no development.
>Trigger characters
>Development
Literally the average nostalgia driven Triggernigger being assblasted it's not Chrono Trigger 2.0:Electric Boogaloo.
>>3191403
It's not such a good game from the gameplay point of view, but all the rest is easily a 8/10, much better than its predecessor in terms of scenario and characters
How did you get this backwards?
Cross is meandering and convoluted as fuck with a final disc that's at least 10 hours too short for the considerable amount of big reveals and necessary backstory it tries to cram in. It reeks of something that had one draft written and was left unfinished, and the subplots involving the demihumans and environmentalism were hamfisted as hell.
This is at least partially due to the fact the game tried and failed to juggle a cast of 40-something characters too. Nearly everyone in the game can be summarized accurately by their quirky design and weird accent, like they tried to build a suikoden party out of nothing but Quina's and Cait Siths. The only guys with any serious focus or development outside of their joining period are Serge, Kidd, Glenn, Radius and Nikki.
Trigger's story is basic and pretty straight forward Toriyama stuff but it's effective thanks to that simplicity and its incredibly tight pacing, probably the best in any 16-bit RPG. It also has the novel idea of having its cast actually relate to the plot, with each one having a proper motivation for going on such a big journey, getting a dedicated story arc and having a sidequest that wraps up their character in the end, which is a hell of a lot more than the majority of Cross' cast.
What makes Cross stand out is its phenomenal presentation and its fresh battle system. Its writing is trash.
>So you can't read? That must be awful.
Until you get to Chronopolis where the plot promptly shits the bed all the Chrono Trigger references might as well be nothing more than cute easter eggs and cameos.
The game simultaneously wants nothing to do with its predecessor and is so utterly dependent on it that it ruins its own self contained narrative.
>>3191425
>Cross is meandering and convoluted as fuck with a final disc that's at least 10 hours too short for the considerable amount of big reveals and necessary backstory it tries to cram in.
Bullshit, the game is pretty straightforward in explaining what's going on once you reach the dead sea segment, and all the rest was a great build up for that and also served to show the player the scenario and world, pretty much like CT is meandering and convoluted until you reach Zeal.
>and the subplots involving the demihumans and environmentalism were hamfisted as hell.
The "environmentalist" subplot is pretty much something you pulled out of your ass unless a few words on the hydra marshes and those dwarves amount to a subplot for you, might as well say that CT had a political subplot for the trial segment.
And demihumans were covered much better than in Trigger by Zelbess alone.
>Nearly everyone in the game can be summarized accurately by their quirky design and weird accent
Just like everyone in Trigger can be summarized by their hairdo, you point?
>it's effective thanks to that simplicity and its incredibly tight pacing, probably the best in any 16-bit RPG
You probably haven't played much outside of FF and other blockbuster RPGs if you claim such thing.
>It also has the novel idea of having its cast actually relate to the plot, with each one having a proper motivation for going on such a big journey
>novel idea
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, WHAT?
Are you seriously so delusional you think anyone but your kind of shitposters would believe this? Have you even played more than three RPGs in your life?
>The only guys with any serious focus or development outside of their joining period are Serge, Kidd, Glenn, Radius and Nikki.
>Who are Fargo, Doc, Orlha, Karsh, Riddel or Harle
>its fresh battle system
The battle system is literal garbage, it's CT's shitty battle system with a bad ripoff of SaGa's field system and no level approach.
>>3191459
>pretty much like CT is meandering and convoluted until you reach Zeal
>You probably haven't played much outside of FF and other blockbuster RPGs
Bullshit. Every part of Chrono Trigger's story is essential. The game never wastes your time for a moment. It's by far the games greatest strength and one of the main reasons it's so well received.
Compare that to Cross where it constantly interrupts the core story to sidetrack you with character illnesses and fairies and slaying dragon gods for curses and getting trapped on pirate ships twice. I've played through the game twice and both times I forgot the Frozen Flame was even a plot point for a majority of the game because you're constantly distracted by loads of other bullshit.
>The "environmentalist" subplot is pretty much something you pulled out of your ass
Did you totally ignore all the commentary on humanity's relationship with nature?
Its brought up all over the place between the Porre invasion, Marbule, the Draconians, the humans tie to Lavos and the Dead Sea. It's spelled out for you outright with the dwarves, marsh and fairies.
It's a persisting theme throughout the whole game. How did you miss it?
>Just like everyone in Trigger can be summarized by their hairdo
No, they're summarized by which Dragon Ball character they're copying.
I'm not denying they're cliched as fuck. But they have infinitely more going on than Cross' cast which exists solely to inflate the party number to the detriment of the actually important characters.
>Are you seriously so delusional you think anyone but your kind of shitposters would believe this?
That was sarcasm, I was poking fun at Cross having the shittiest character motivations. Characters like the Macha family and Starky were a fucking joke.
My bad if that didn't come across well. I havent slept in 24 hours.
>it's CT's shitty battle system with a bad ripoff
The only problem with CT's battle system is its difficulty and handing you field sweeping spells too early.
I liked the world, ost, some of the characters and lack of grinding
the plot is interesting but badly paced (kinda like xenogears)
I love the battle system, but then again, most battle systems that don't involve something like the mp system, which forces the player to spam attack because of "resource management", get a thumbs up from me
the problem is that the game is rather easy aside from some battles (miguel, dario, ozzy/flea/slash)
I wish it wasn't related to Trigger so we could get decent threads about it
>>3191489
>Every part of Chrono Trigger's story is essential.
Oh, and Cross isn't so?
The Viper Manor, the Zelbess, The Hydra Marshes, all secondary shit right? Might as well say that for the future and prehistoric worlds in Trigger since they only serve as character arcs that all conveniently blame Lavos in the end.
>sidetrack you with character illnesses and fairies and slaying dragon gods for curses and getting trapped on pirate ships twice
Same when CT sidetracks you with LEGENDARY SWORDS, time travelling ships, Balthasar conveniently sending you to do fetch quests, the entire initial Magus plot which turns out to be a huge waste of time and absolutely completely inconsequential to anything besides Ozzie&Co. once you reach Zeal?
>It's spelled out for you outright with the dwarves, marsh and fairies.
It's their own plot point and a neat way of giving you alternate choices, but ultimately minor, if you get hot and bothered by it you might as well say that Nikki is pulling a Macross 7, which he really doesn't, or that Van and Gogh and the Cleft of Dimension are a modern art subplot.
>But they have infinitely more going on than Cross' cast which exists solely to inflate the party number to the detriment of the actually important characters.
Fargo alone has more development than any Trigger party member outside of maybe Frog.
A lot of party members have really elaborated connections between each other outside of joke characters like Starky or Pip, and it's still better to have a 40 characters cast that all have their little moments to shine rather than the same 6 faces with the same amount of exposition of any of those 40 characters.
And masked mexican wrestler priests, DEEPDARKFANTASY dragon riders, glam rock musicians and pirate freddie mercury party memebers are infinitely more entertaining and interesting that generic Dragon Quest characters.
CC was fun as hell.
>>3191403
Jesus F. Christ man, I said that if some problems were ironed out it'd be a great game. Why the hell are you so butthurt?
Also as the other anon pointed out there's absolutely no relation to Trigger until Chronopolis saving for a couple scattered references, did you even play the game?
>>3191537
same anon as >>3191979
>Fargo alone has more development than any Trigger party member outside of maybe Frog.
A lot of party members have really elaborated connections between each other outside of joke characters like Starky or Pip, and it's still better to have a 40 characters cast that all have their little moments to shine rather than the same 6 faces with the same amount of exposition of any of those 40 characters.
Man, ever heard ANYONE complain about Fargo or anyone in the Acacia Dragoons group? They are actually characters, unfortunately there is a shitton of joke characters taking the spotlight from them.
>And masked mexican wrestler priests, DEEPDARKFANTASY dragon riders, glam rock musicians and pirate freddie mercury party memebers are infinitely more entertaining and interesting that generic Dragon Quest characters.
Man you are totally going on a tangent. I wasn't complaining about the characters not being cool, I was complaining about a lot of wasted potential. As far as the story is concerned (and pretty much proven by the endings) the only characters that matter are the Dragoons and the Radical Dreamers (which are pretty much only Kid and Lynx. And Lynx is a gigantic faggot anyway. What the flying fuck was he doing after getting Serge's body other than getting an edgy makeover and causing a ruckus?). Oh, and Harle, but she's pretty much a satellite to Lynx despite who she is supposed to be.
Everyone else not met or discussed in Termina is pretty much dead weight, and that's a problem. You can cut Trigger some slack because it came out years before, too. By the time Cross came out, standards were higher than "Small paragraph of text" for character development.
I said I want to like this game and I stand by that. But it has serious issues, man. If there was some sort of hack that made combat more difficult, gave out the tactical Elements earlier and made loot more interesting, we'd be in business.
>>3191979
>there's absolutely no relation to Trigger until Chronopolis saving for a couple scattered references, did you even play the game?
The entire islands you live on exist because Chrono Trigger happened.
All ancient ruins and cultures you see are Reptite remnants.
All the save points are Mother Brain pieces.
Your co-protagonist is a Schala spawn.
The first plot dump you get comes from Belthasar.
Not to mention the many scattered "references" to CT elements like Toma, Denodorite, Porre, etc.
Did YOU even play the game? The fact that they only explain how it all comes together midway through doesn't make it unrelated, it just means they wanted a plot twist. One that flew over your head, apparently.
>>3192016 cont'd.
Another fatal flaw is the party size. Just 3 character slots for such a massive roster is a crime. In the end you are almost forced to use Serge, Kid/Fargo (to steal) and Glenn/Razzly (if you want magic instead of raw melee).
The basic plot would be pretty okay if it wasn't trying to tie itself to Trigger. What makes comments like >>3191338 pretty baffling. Sure, you could try to pretend Trigger doesn't exist, but the game goes *out of its way* to remind you of it (Interrupting a key scene for the "Now eliminating Prometeus" thing, for example), or making Schala+Lavos the final boss instead of the combined Dragon God (which would have made more sense internally). The game is basically ruining itself trying so hard to reference Trigger. That Kid is a clone/thing of Schala means absolutely nothing, for example. Or that the Masamune is now an evil sword because...reasons? How is giving Masa and Mune dialogue do anything for the plot but blatantly referencing Trigger for...reasons?
Also I pointed out that "the setting is pretty interesting" and "has a bunch of cool moments". Thanks for ignoring that.
>>3186737
Absolutely not. They're just a bunch of hypocritical potatoes with noses and a tank that, admittedly, is fucking boss.
>>3192093
>That Kid is a clone/thing of Schala means absolutely nothing, for example
That is the single-most important thing in Chrono Cross, and is the entire reason Chrono Cross even happens -or doesn't happen, if you played it right.
>>3192093
>That Kid is a clone/thing of Schala means absolutely nothing
It's entirely rooted in Trigger, where Lavos could produce "spawns" (or bunshin, "other self"). The only reason Kid was able to exist is because Schala got that ability from Lavos.
I could point out why the rest of your complaints don't really stand. The entire game was clearly conceived with Trigger in mind. Radical Dreamers was not, but this one sure as hell was.
>>3189920
loved it. you are not alone. a year or two ago the general consensus here was that the game was flawed, but generally liked, and only really falls short terribly in the wake of its outstanding predecessor.
but as more /v/ comes in, the general opinion has shifted to it being terrible, and every thread unfortunately becomes a microcosm of /v/.
>>3192345
Ive been on /vr/ since the start and cant remember any point where Cross threads didn't devolve into arguing.
It's like the 16 bit Aladdin games. The games so deeply connected to the debates surrounding it that it's never been possible to discuss it civilly.
CC has much better waifus compared to CT
CT has maybe Ayla and Lucca depending on how you look at them. Marle and Schala a shit.
CC has Leena, Harle, Riddel, Kid, Orlha, and, for pedos, Razzly.
>>3192485
THIS. Too bad they completely lose all personality the moment they enter your party -- except for Harle. Harle is love. Harle is life.
>>3189920
As someone who prefers trigger: Plenty of people like this game, it's a fun game with a lot of flaws.
I do think it's fun but it has weird gimmicks that detract from it. There's like 40 characters that can join you but you only use 3 characters in a fight and one has to be the main character, another has to be "current plot character" and that's almost always kid.
Also it gets flak because people wanted chrono trigger 2. It really doesn't have anything to do with trigger and a lot of the trolls are actually kinda right in some regards as to its flaws. Though I always recommend it to people looking for ps1 games or good rpgs.
>>3192272
uhh you know schala has that ability too, it's called giving birth.
>>3193135
Women are weird creatures.
>>3192485
You're forgetting Steena. I like her so damn much, she functions pretty much like how Magus did back in Trigger, but with a holy bent instead of all 'Darky Dark and the Grumpy Bunch" stuff going on. My favorite team actually consists of her, Serge, and Grobyc (the most truly outrageous hair ever).
Also, she's the prettiest in my opinion. I think there's some cheesecake out there of her and Luccia.
>>3193135
Women don't become pregnant out of nowhere with their own DNA and give birth to clones. Lavos, however, does.
CC is a solid game that I enjoyed playing once I forced myself to get into it. Almost felt like a chore to play at times. I think CT is the better game, but to say this game is shit is just wrong.
>>3192509
Why is she so perfect?
>>3192272
>>3192215
What I was arguing about, however, is not the actual relation, is that if the game had tried to be its own thing, there would be no complaints at all. Nothing would be off because it'd be its own story already. Something it tried to do except it kinda didn't. It tries to build its own world and setting (which it did pretty well actually) but then tries to tie it with Trigger's.
Also how "now eliminating Prometheus" doesn't stand? It'd have been better if Robo wasn't mentioned at all, much less to interrupt a key scene just to kill it off unceremoniously in 10 text lines. What's best, is that it's a part directed at the player who is familiar with Trigger. The characters (except perhaps Kid. Did she pass out at that time anyway?) have no idea who Prometheus is. At all.
If not because excising the relation to Trigger would remove one of the best motherfucking awesome parts of the game, it would have been much more coherent internally.
Then the unexplained things (what caused the "enmity" of the Masamune? Did Frog become a fallen hero? was it corrupted over time because Masa and Mune are just stupid? A side effect of Lavos' Lavosery?) or how Porre became a military superpower (*We* know it was Dalton, but the game doesn't even mention him by name or his influence, we shouldn't need to look into side material or reprints of Trigger to know that!) either be a sequel or don't.
And, well, maybe it's because I don't like Kid very much, but I feel like she just doesn't do all that much of anything outside of being useful as thief, getting Serge into the Frozen Flame thing (which he was going to get into anyway because Lynx was A. his father and B. in need of his body for the whole Fate thing) and getting into Exposition Mode from time to time (which Lynx was also quite willing to do anyway). Hey, if she your waifu, that's fine, I just don't like her much.
>>3192485
>for pedos
>not mentioning Leah
Fail, man, fail.
I...I kinda used to carry Razzly and Leah in my party at all times when the game allowed me to.
I mean, man, a cute fairy and a loli that throws fucking boulders, what's not to love?
>>3193682
You want Cross to be independent from Trigger, but Cross is 100% rooted in Trigger. Cross hinges on the player knowing Trigger to fully understand its background, and so Dragonians, FATE, Porre and even El Nido's place in the world don't have to be explained in depth because they assume the player will know what Reptites, Mother Brain and Zenan are. Same with Zeal and Lavos, although the latter does get some small exposition.
For that to work Cross would need not just a massive rewrite but also even more exposition, a lot more, for it to make sense. The moment you take Reptites and 2300 AD out of the equation you'd need to explain the entire premise of the game a lot, lot more or else people would just scratch their heads (which many already do because the pacing is too text-heavy).
You could argue the same thing with ANY sequel ever made, that they could be their own story if they rearranged things, but most of them would also need a lot of expansion to make sense and Cross is no exception. It wouldn't benefit at all from cutting ties to Trigger because it was conceived as a sequel to Trigger's events, and even with script rewrites wouldn't make any sense in its current form without Trigger, and would need tons of expansion to even begin to work.
I found a solution to stop the infighting in this thread.
>mfw I'll never be tied up by Marcy while Leah performs savage, ball-busting snu-snu on me and Razzly looks and giggles cutely at her new human toy.
There. That was easy. Now everyone will hate me instead of arguing about plot points.
>>3193695
Eh, I guess you are right. After all if I managed to retain all this much information about Cross, I guess it wasn't that bad after all. Although it could have totally used a bit of a rewrite, kind of make it pick up a bit more of a pace before the body swap, streamline some fetch-quests, explain the loose ends without going into side material, and some mechanics changes would make it actually very good.
Personally my favorite part was the Dead Sea. That whole thing is glorious and is presented very well. I wish it had more awe-inducing parts like it. And I really liked Karsh's side story as well. If there was more of that and less like the gnomes, it'd be much easier to overlook flaws.
I wish I could have made the combat harder in some way, but there are only ways to make the game easier, and since your star level is mostly fixed at any specific point in the game... "not grinding" is not even an option. I feel the Element system has a lot of interesting things for fun tactics but you never get a chance to use them tactically except in 3 battles, and you don't even have a bunch of the cool ones when you get to fight Miguel.
And by god, the party size is just a crime. Give us like 5 slots, come on, at least you gotta agree with that.
>>3193696
...what.
I like Chrono Cross better, but holy hell does this comparative timeline of events really drive the point home.
http://square.wikia.com/wiki/Chrono_universe_timelines
I was on a hating jrpgs kick since they "aren't real games" but squareshit aint bad to put on and kick back with. You dont gotta put 100% concentration in em. Still gotta get the good ending on cc but i just got sucked into ff4 for the. First time. I couldnt into the graphics before
>>3193723
They had to do 3 because chrono trigger does 3. Theres a fuckload of characters because thats half the fun of the game is getting new characters u may or may not actually use
I think I hated almost every single character in Chrono Cross. It's almost entirely void of likable characters, and the ones that are likable don't really have personalities.
>>3194491
A complaint that can be levied at Trigger as well, mind you.
>>3194648
>devoid of likeable characters
I think Frog and Robo are great. Frog's backstory is simply badass in my opinion.
The dwarves are there to present a hyperbolic representation of your actions. You drive them out of the swamp and they come to the island on a search for a new home. They kill off the fairies because that's what you taught them. After you win you're flat out told, by the fairies you saved, to think about the consequences of your actions. Cross isn't your typical shitty jRPG like Trigger.
>>3194680
I don't know why people gush over Frog. I hated his stupid accent, I hated his weird little queen fetish, I hated his stupid techs, I hated that half the game was a fetch quest for his stupid sword, I hated his chivalry bullshit, I never got why people loved his theme (sounds too shrill in my opinion, most other characters have better themes). I deeply disliked him way back when, I still kinda do now. Robo for life.
>>3194758
Harle is objectively the best girl
>>3194680
It's a stupid complaint for either game, frankly, but out of the two at Cross actually bothers to give at least a few of its PCs backstory AND character growth, which is something Trigger neglects to do. though every character gets one of the two.
>>3194872
Disagree, everyone grows a little bit towards the end.
>>3194883
The only character who doesn't get a sidequest in Trigger that helps flesh them out a bit is Ayla, but that's because she didn't really need one. It still would have been cool to see something like Kino still feeling incompetent compared to Ayla (but then again, everyone does), and so he ventures off to Singing Mountain to prove something to himself. Ayla and company would have to go there and save him from newly emerging beasts who are growing active because of the encroaching cold. They get there, beat up some boss to rescue him, and Ayla basically throws it in his face that he is far from weak; he has a cunning that both the other Iokans and the Larubans seem to lack, as well as balls of steel, if him successfully bailing all the prisoners out of the Tyrano Lair is anything to go by. It would end with Ayla confessing that she actually envies his braininess to some degree, since her thing is pretty much to simply locate a threat and beat it to death.
This is all just fan wank though.
Also, I suppose Crono doesn't really get much of a quest either, but that's mostly because he doesn't have much of a personality to flesh out (except that he's kind of retarded), and even then, the events at Death Peak might be considered his quest. Sort of.
>>3194648
Confession: I liked the Viper Clan's storyline more than the barely-there character arcs in CT. For all the shit Dario gives you the first time, at least Riddel doesn't force you to spend half of the game repairing a statistically mediocre sword so you can wake him up and you don't have shit like Karsh or ZOAH hiding in a cave like a NEET while whining about how he is useless.
Also, most of it is technically optional, so you can skip over it if you want, but it's interesting if you do get engaged in it.
Frog a shit and useless after Magus' Castle, btw.
>>3195435
>Frog a shit and useless after Magus' Castle, btw.
The only thing he's good for after then is that I think he's needed for at least part of the mansion in Choras, and there's some neat shit there, like Nova Armor, and the Kali Blade, which can actually outdamage the Rainbow, but the x4 crit ability is almost useless because of how little it actually goes off; it has the lowest crit rate out of all of Crono's swords, I think it's like a 5% chance or something even more ridiculous. I don't think there are any items that characters who aren't Frog can equip that raise your critical hit rate (if I'm not mistaken, the Hero Medal increases his crit rate with the Masamune).
>>3193469
I wish I knew, man. You barely even get to use her too, she disappears halfway through the Lynx part. Too pure for this sinful world I guess.
>>3195849
CT is so easy that talking about "balance" is almost irrelevant anyway but it's pretty obnoxious how bad Frog is, especially when you're forced to use him so much. Marle is shitty too, I think they definitely overvalued healing abilities compared to just damage.
This game has beautiful music.
>>3196274
it did. The Girl who Stole the Stars made me cry
>>3196234
>Too pure for this sinful world I guess
Sounds to me like the writers were just shitty and lazy
They knew nobody would give a shit about Kid if Harle got the screen time she deserved
Can't have anyone take attention away from their precious mary sue
I think a lot of complaints about Cross could be rectified by just condensing the characters down. There's a few who legitimately have no reason to exist and some who have an interesting backstory but never develop. You could easily take those characters and replace their screen time with some development for the characters you keep. I know that there's a ton of characters so you have options for every element but I don't think it was worth sacrificing character time for that in such a story heavy game.
Trigger is short and simple but all of its characters get some development somewhere; there's nobody who just shows up and proceeds to do nothing for the rest of the game. That's why a lot of people like it; you don't need a story to be complex for it to have appeal.
I think Cross is much more complex than Trigger and more thought provoking but it didn't focus enough, so you have an army of characters with the backstory of a Trigger character instead of a squad of them that surpass their ancestors.
>>3196447
hell, at least try to make them more of a character than a fucking dialectalizer. Suikoden games juggle 108 or more characters and still manage to squeeze in better characterization for most of them, because the story knows you're dragging around dozens of people and uses them (even if just as dudes in an army). What's even going on in fucking Turnip's life? What makes Guile and Leah anything more substantial than easter egg references? If they had given the characters context besides "member of the party" maybe Square could have made all of them work, but they didn't.
>>3196239
Marle is pretty good until you get Haste Helms because Haste is useful as fuck. I used her the first time in my latest run, and she was prettyhandy.
>I hate Chrono Trigger/Cross
Because you're a faggot.
