How come the NES did not have a single good or even decent fighting game? Was it not powerful enough to do that? In fact, all the fighting games on NES are Chinese bootlegs.
>>3163670
>What is Karate Champ
TMNT Tournament Fighters
Probably because by the time 2D fighters really took off with SFII, the SNES was the console of choice for that genre.
It had some beatem ups
>>3163670
i think the controls and such just lend themselves to beat em ups more naturally
>>3163675
>decent
Yie ar kung fu.
>>3163782
Came in to post this. Anyone who says there's no decent fighting game on NES either has understandably missed this Japanese exclusive or if they've played it and still think that they don't know what a decent fighting game is.
was this not good? Haven't played it in a while.
>>3164095
That wasn't a fighting game.
>>3164095
Trololol
>that roster
https://youtu.be/XF0hS-NaPuQ?t=41s
>>3164150
That's a bootleg, this thread is about officially licensed games.
>>3164216
Didn't see any thing about officially licensed games. The op posted >How come the NES did not have a single good or even decent fighting game? They said nothing about them being official.
>what is Punch Out?
>>3163782
this game is the shit, played it all the time in the early days of emulation and before the translation
>>3164239
I love punch out, but does it count as a traditional fighting game?
>>3164216
Lern2reed
>>3164254
Traditional fighting games as in sf clones didn't even exist back then, they were like Karate Champ, Yie Ar Kung Fu or even Budokan. The first SF barely had any influence other than being the genesis of both II and Fatal Fury.
Fighting games weren't a thing til Streetfighter gained popularity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkIr0dEzpgk
Sorry for the spanish or whatever. Only video I could find of the 1v1 mode.
>>3164695
>spanish or whatever
School starts on monday.
I can attest that Urban Champion was on the NES, and also was not good nor decent.
>>3164894
Urban Champion is fun as hell if you have buddies over and if you're loosened up with some drinks.
>>3163782
I was just about to say...
>>3164937
and it will be real fight,we know
>>3163670
Joy Mech Fight and Nekketsu Kakutou Densetsu are both tons of fun.
>>3163686
No, the Neo Geo was. The Mega Drive was better for fighting games, too.
>>3165603
Is there a fighting game as technically impressive on the NeoGeo as Yu Yu Hakusho on MD?
>>3165603
>The Mega Drive was better for fighting games
Objectively false.
>>3165603
>Mega Drive was better for fighting games
You tried.
>>3165603
Regardless of which is the best, he's still right. The NES was almost dead when SF2 and its clones came out.
It's not a matter of power, since far worse consoles than the NES got SF2 ports. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hS7HYsOEccw
River City Ransom was basically what we had, with a little Double Dragon or Super Dodgeball thrown in.
NES was before fighting games really became a big thing.
Did nes habe yie ar kung fu? Man i pkayed that cracker when i was a youngun
It's hard to make a fighting game with only 2 buttons.
>>3165608
Galaxy Fight!
>>3165967
There were three Mortal Kombats on the Master System.
>>3165967
OMF 2097 says hi.
>>3165992
You mean fighting games? Nah, it's all pretty much button mashing.
>>3164150
Despite the closest to actual fighting games on NES are Chinese bootlegs, this is pretty damn impressive.
>>3166301
MK on MS was good.
>>3163670
Is this a bait thread? Fighting games barely existed as a genre when the NES was around. The few that did were all very rudimentary and none are "good" by today's standards.
>>3163670
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdXVEWwPv9Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2n3ZzHTGBzI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwi-vCAQ5LM
Like, seriously?
>>3166380
There were quite a couple, actually
http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/fighters/fighters.htm
>>3166380
I know they weren't SFII level of popular, but Karate Champ is credited with popularizing the genre.
>>3163670
AHEM.
>>3163678
That felt like such a pittance.
I remember not remembering it more than a bit, though I never had a 16 bit console. But still, instead i remember Bodyblows.
>>3168373
I bet Bodyblows could have been ported to the NES, since it was already designed for just 2 or 1 buttons.
>>3163863
This.
It was my first fighting game. Before Street Fighter 1 came out.
It's probably too archaic and basic, but for being a pre-SFII game on a 3rd gen system, it's pretty good. I had fun with it as a kid.
>>3168424
Impressive
Does this count?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mowvlVPTeM
NES was still a huge market presence but was not the main stage by the time fighters took off.
Also, the NES has trouble with big, detailed sprites and making a smooth, functional game like Street Fighter 2 for a famicom would have been tough.
There was one shining example of quality though, Joy Mech Fight. A 1993 famicom exclusive which used robots made of floating body parts as characters. This ingenious choice made it possible to design smoothly animating fighters and fast gameplay while staying within NES limitations, because instead of animating big detailed sprites, they just moved small sprites around the screen.
It still holds up for a number of reasons. Controls play like a mix of street fighter and smash bros, featuring both direction+button moves and quartercircle inputs. It also boasts 36 characters, a huge amount for even modern fighters (though admittedly 8 of those are just stronger clones of other characters), and the game's style and systems hold up quite well. You can tell it was a professional title all around, and a real nintendo knockout even for a system on it's 10th year of shelf life.
I'd strongly recommend it to anyone who likes a simple to play fighting game with tons of replay value, or to anyone who loves the NES and wants to see just how far they could take the system in the September of its years.
>>3169070
same exact character design from the dodge ball game.
>>3168364
>posts a great baseball game in a fighting game thread because occasionally shitty fights happen
AHEM
>>3163670
fighting games rely on big sprites and detailed animations. The NES has issues with both. A hardware sprite is 8x8 pixels. To produce larger character sprites, you got to tile them. However, the NES has a limit on the number of sprites per scanline. Something like 10 or 16, I forgot. Regardless, it means "wide" characters would break the sprite limit very easily, leading to flickering or disappearing sprites.
Ignoring the sprites-per-line limit leads to the second issue. Background and sprites were selected from a small palette of tiles. I think at best you get around 256 tiles for all sprites together. While that sounds sufficient for the aforementioned sprite size limits, you got to keep in mind that loading new tiles is not easy. So, very simplified, the tiles you have loaded are all the tiles you get. And not just for the current screen, they need to hold all the animation frames. You can do the simple math yourself. 2 characters, of 4x4 tiles each (32x32 pixels, not very big) require 32 tiles just to be on screen. So in the worst case you can fit about 8 frames of animation for them in memory.
Of course the system has plenty of tricks up its sleeve, you can dynamically swap out tiles, abuse background tiles for character tiles and so on. But these two basic problems, sprite count and tile count, make fighting games unreasonably hard to write for a system like the NES
>>3168381
controls are the smallest problem when dealing with coding for the NES
>>3169291
It's from the same company/series, so yea. How's that bad?
>>3165970
You didnt provide any good arguments either, fart sounds faggot.
>>3169324
didnt say it was. Just realized they made more games than just the dodge ball series. unless that is dodge ball. I didnt see the ball.
>>3169329
Nah, not the dodgeball game. But again, it is in that same series, [Kunio-kun series] which also includes River City Ransom, Renegade, and Crash n' The Boys.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunio-kun
>>3169329
It's actually the other way around, the fighter came first and the dodge ball game was a spin off.
>>3169318
Which is why they did joy mech fight the way they did, the character sprites are small independent objects that move around on screen instead of being big bulky sprites that have to animate a lot. A punch is as easy as moving the 'fist' object and maybe changing its sprite once. Way more reasonable and it can be pretty fast too, as seen in the kenshiro-esque fist barrage attacks seen on several characters.
Can you play 4-player on the kunio-kun game on an NES with a four score or do you need a famicom and an adapter?
>>3169307
The baseball part was plagued with issues. So was the league mode, with its primitiveness, unless you had a few players using the same cart and sometimes playing against each other. The rest of the game was solid.
On the other hand, you could totally plough through the bases. You just had to avoid the defective weapons, and cyborgs, who were intensely optimized for fielding.
>>3169323
Ah, okay. Still, you gotta wonder why the NES didn't have a fighting game comparable to that, or...
>>3165974
Though having relied on just a single button, Bodyblows did push the controls most intensely, though I know you wouldn't want a console game with the exact same control scheme because there's multiple buttons a thand, and the keypad made diagonals easier.
OMF is a somewhat more apt model.because it did have smaller sprites, along with more jumping, though I think bodyblows had more moves you could do in midair, so something in between both would be closest to what was/is possible.
>>3163670
Fucking really?
>>3166301
OMF was fucking awesome. Still has a fanbase, too. Too bad the sequel was a train wreck.
>>3165945
It fucking warns you before the title screen it's probably a shitty port. 11/10
>>3169437
This makes me wonder if the programmers of Ballz 3D weren't that competent.
>>3170197
How bad was the sequel? Couldn't it be hacked to be improved, like for starters removing the platformeristic camera angle?
>>3163670
>How come the NES did not have a single good or even decent fighting game?
LITERALLY ANY NEKKETSU GAME, YOU DUMMY.
>>3170190
That's a beat em up, not a fighting game
>>3171865
>A game where all you do is fight
>Not a fighting game
>>3171958
Much as I want to step in and defend RCR, he's not wrong, you know.
>>3171969
How is a game where all you do is fight not a fighting game? That's like saying Dragon Quest is actually a "roleplaying" game. Eat shit kiddo.
>>3165973
Do not remind me.
>>3171865
Fun fact, beat 'em ups used to be called fighting games before versus fighting games like Street Fighter 2 got popular and stole the genre label from them.
>>3172024
>stole
they won it fair and square in a fight
>>3172024
It didn't steal it, it changed the image of fighting games forever.
>>3163670
Fuck you, River City Ransom is a classic.
>>3171865
>"lol, a game where the main mechanic is beating the snot out of enemies is a beat-em-up not a fighting game". "The two are mutually exclusive".
Spotted the retard autist.
>>3172930
Get real, it's bloody ISOMETRIC.
The thoroughly fleshed out standard for fighting games is side view based. That facilitates detailed move options, along with the large sprites.
So it's gotta be said, I've never heard any mention whatsoever of Pit Fighter here. Or hardly any other game with isometric one on one fighting, which appears to be synonymous with wrestling games, and a small portion of boxing games. I never heard any mention of Archon Ultra either.
Basewars is like the closest exception. And even that gets inconsistent.
>>3174413
Interesting
>>3164102
>Street Fighter
>not a fighting game
I've seen some whoppers of a bait in my time but c'mon man, you gotta put some effort in.
>>3174969
Superficial bullshit. So they nonsensically renamed the Kevin character to Ken to make it seem related and cash in, so what?
You can't do good fighting games with 2 buttons.
>>3174969
But it wasn't a fighting game.
>>3175704
P, K and P+K, what else do you need?
>>3163670
>>3165967
But it's possible. There are a few very cool GB and C fighting games. I'm kinda surprised no pirated has ported any of these to the NES .
