Do you consider the Nintendo 64 more like the Super Nintendo, or more like the GameCube?
It's not like either?
Just like NES and SNES aren't like each other. Both look drastically different and have drastically different capabilities.
>>3143001
I think it's pretty clearly a weaker GameCube.
It's nothing like the SNES. The SNES had good games.
Hell, even the GC had more good games than the fucking N64.
>>3143003
OH damn.
>>3143003
Nice bait, you make that yourself?
>>3142998
It's not very similar to either. The SNES and Gamecube are both good consoles.
>>3143016
>bait
How is it not true? Jesus fuck, the N64 was shit. Controller was shit and games were garbage for the most part.
The N64 was one of the reasons gaming today is shit. Kids latched onto the fucking shitty Mario 64 that was overhyped and supported by paid reviewers with its horrible controls and shit camera and now that's what gamers think good games should have.
Fuck the N64 and fuck the millennial generation of "gamers".
>>3143029
Glorious.
>>3143029
GOT EMMM
>>3142998
N64 was like a shitty GameCube.
>>3143029
>Fuck the N64 and fuck the millennial generation of "gamers".
So would you say the N64 and GameCube are both retro or no
Gamecube is what the 64 should have been.
64 is more like the cube overall, but the GC is actually closer to the SNES than the 64. Think about that for a moment.
>>3143029
>Fuck the N64 and fuck the millennial generation of "gamers".
Yeah, fuck all those millennials, the ones who are 30 years old and grew up with the 16-bit consoles. Fuck those guys.
>>3143029
... Holy shit.
>>3143029
Okay Logic students, detail all the logical fallacies within this argument. There has to be at least two or three in there.
>>3142998
there's been a lot of rumblings lately because /vr/ is resisting the acceptance of 6th gen as retro
but I think showing how similar n64 and ps1 and stuff is to 6th gen is crucial in getting acceptance
>>3143138
>but I think showing how similar n64 and ps1 and stuff is to 6th gen is crucial in getting acceptance
They're completely different.
>>3143138
They will never be accepted on this board.
A new board dedicated to 6th and 7th gen games would be absolutely fine. /v/ can remain the board for shitposting about modern games.
>>3142998
The N64 is obviously complete different than the SNES. You have a generation split of 2d to 3d. The gamecube was a powerful machine that could have been big if it had a dvd player.
I'm sure the anti-64 guy is trolling but honestly I agree with the sentiment.
It was so far below the consoles the preceded and followed it. Sure, it has some fantastic games, but for the most part the library is bursting at the seams with total garbage. The 3D craze was pushed on it way too hard for a console with strict storage limitations. The controllers were awkward. The analog sticks lasted all of five minutes. List goes on.
Be honest with yourselves, if you had to start your whole game collection over from scratch, games you actually intended to play, how far down the list would the first 64 game be, and how many would even be on the list at all?
>>3143171
Well considering N64 has 2 of the games that are among the best games ever created. It's pretty high.
>>3143001
NES and SNES are very similar in nature. Nintendo themselves realized this and called it the "Super" NES.
>>3143184
Ya NES is so similar to games like StarFox.
>>3143189
A low poly 3D game that ran at 15fps and took full advantage of an external add-on chip so it could even run? Nice example.
>>3143194
>Ya well that doesn't count!!!!
Wow great argument. Keep it up.
>>3143157
/v/ just talks about the newest piece of shit and newest gaming controversy. There's no discussion of anything there.
>>3143189
>>3143197
StarFox required a Super FX chip to run. Adding external hardware to the NES could probably have also made it 16-bit or produce better shit, as well. So the point is moot. The NES and Super NES are clearly closely related.
The N64 is like an experimental GameCube, and shares nothing with the Super Nintendo.
More like the Gamecube in that both systems were the reason why Nintendo was in such poor shape financially in 2004.
>>3143197
About 1% of the US SNES library used the Super FX chip, I think it's safe to say the other 99% of SNES games were similar to the NES in gameplay style.
>>3143245
When I think of the SNES, I don't go " Oh yeah the system that can do shitty 3D in 15 FPS."
Fucking retard.
N64 is mostly worthless but it did give birth to Wonder Project J2 so I can't hate it.
>>3143245
Reading comprehension, how does it work.
Very few games used the FX chip, Starfox among them, and the FX's abilities so outshined the SNES's capabilities.
it's not really fair to call FX games representative of the SNES's library.
>>3143257
I might as well argue with a brick wall.
>>3143257
>keeps calling me a kid
>>3143263
That it was a TOP 10 GAEM?
Good job, were talking specs, so how popular some shit was is irrelevant.
And if 3d is that big of a deal, there was Hellraiser, which while it was never released, would have done Doom like 3D and more, by cramming in a fuckton of external hardware into the cart.
http://lostmedia.wikia.com/wiki/Hellraiser_%28Unreleased_1990_Video_Game%29
>>3143263
Well still based of the top 10 games from primarily 2D system. 80% of the top 10 were 2D games...
>>3143269
>specs
No kid.
You said NES was like SNES. Which is 100% false.
>>3143279
snes cpu is literally an overclocked nes cpu
>>3143279
Both systems used similar cartridge based expansions to prolong their life. "kiddo"
>>3143279
No, I said polygon graphics are not the normal mode of operation for the SNES.
SNES isn't like NES if there's anything that's like a Super NES it's the PC Engine. The SNES was the beginning of "let's make something that can push a lot of colors and neato visual effects"
The N64 really is pretty terrible. It was just because of the cartridge format that games were too expensive and Nintendo didn't give a fuck and continued to want to charge exhorbitent licensing fees while Sony was just streaming out anything and everything at rock bottom prices with plenty of storage space for multimedia which they finally figured out how to use right in games.
The N64's Silicon Graphics Reality processor was the beginning of using straight up computer video chips in consoles. Playstation's shit was simpler and easier to produce for. If Nintendo had both moved to optical media AND been easier to work with the N64 could have been much more successful but they didn't and it wasn't.
The Gamecube and the Wii both do follow up what the N64 started and Nintendo actually learned from their mistakes. They're damn lucky the N64 didn't break their company completely though. Thank fuck for Game Boy sales.
>>3143286
>A top 10 game isn't "normal" but instead a something I'll ignore and say it doesn't count because I'm a mental invalid
Ok kid
>>3143287
Nintendo made money with the N64...
>>3143292
Look, I realize you're bait, and I'm biting, but fuck it I'm bored.
The SNES is not capable of polygon graphics without a second, more powerful coprocessor.
>>3143303
Really trying to force that strawman.
>>3143306
>>3142998
I consider the N64 more like the Super Nintendo. Kids in Japan could have had the Famicom disk system and the 64DD, but in the US it was a big deal when Nintendo started using discs instead of cartridges with the Gamecube.
Going back, I have an easier time using the SNES and N64's controllers.
>>3143157
>A new board dedicated to 6th and 7th gen games would be absolutely fine
Do you realize how silly this sounds?
/nqvr/ - Not Quite Retro Vidya?
OoT, MM, SM64, Goldeneye, PD, SWE1 Racer, Mischief Makers, Smash Bros, Banjo 1 and 2, Conker, Cruisin' USA and World, Pokemon Stadium, Gauntlet...
There's enough available to make the system worth owning.
>>3143303
>The SNES is not capable of polygon graphics
The Triforce at the opening of ALttP and at the ending are polygonal. It doesn't take much processing power to do limited flat-colored polys.
>>3143327
Oh, and it had the BEST multiplayer of any system in its generation by far.
>>3143325
I don't think it's silly at all. /vr/ is quite focused on the 20th century, and /v/ doesn't give a fuck about 6th gen, or even early 7th gen.
You can't just pile every gen into /vr/ just because it gets too old to talk about on /v/. After a while, it will just become "anything that isn't new games". It will be weird as fuck having NES threads on the same board as PS3 threads. It's way too broad of a spectrum for one board.
>>3143171
Ocarina of Time is my favorite game ever. N64 is one of the first retro systems I started re-collecting for, and I had snes, genesis, n64 and ps1 growing up.
The weakest point of the console is that it has a very limited library with poor genre representation.
The strongest point of the n64 is that the great games it has are among the best and most influential games of all time.
>>3143346
Retro is at least 15 years old, actually. So it wouldn't be "everything that isn't new games"
>>3143371
>N64 is one of the first retro systems I started re-collecting for, and I had snes, genesis, n64 and ps1 growing up.
I think the point is that the GameCube should be considered Retro if the N64 is retro, and that the N64 shares most of it's qualities with the GameCube, not the Super Nintendo.
>>3143171
Funny enough, my 20 year old controller stick STILL works.
>>3143029
>horrible controls
nice meme
GC is shit
Deal with it. F-zero, mp and re4 are the only noteworthy games on that literal brick.
>>3143757
I never got the meme either. It's like these autists had problems with hand eye coordination.
>>3143757
Just because you figured out what buttons to press at certain exact times by repetition like a fucking Dragon's Lair game on crack doesn't mean it has good controls, dumb kid.
>>3143780
Give me a set of random tasks to do in the game and I'll make a video right now of me doing it on my first try without having any trouble with the controls.
>>3143785
>random tasks
Walk in a straight line in any direction other than directly ahead.
>>3143787
i know you're baiting, but i made the video anyway. pretty easy. video isn't processed yet, but it's getting there:
https://youtu.be/HiXUUmT8mWQ
>>3143780
>dumb kid
>children
>kid
These statements are fucking retarded. People should be banned for using the word "kid"
>>3143796
I must say you've failed that.
>>3143821
How so?
>>3143832
Dude, stop responding to him. The guy's a fucking troll. First sign was him saying "kid"
>>3143835
i know he's a troll, but there are people out there who genuinely believe SM64 had bad controls. i just want to prove that if you have trouble with the controls, it means you suck at video games, not that the controls are bad.
>>3143860
Yeah, people who think it has bad controls are fucking stupid.
>>3143820
Word filter when?
>>3144008
>Child
>Children
and
>Kid
Should be filtered on this board. I'm 25 and I've been called by a hundred people.
>>3144013
What should they change to?
Something stupid like onii-chan?
>>3143287
Just a correction to your post. The N64's GPU was not a straight out computer chip off the shelf. Yes, it was based on Silicon Graphics chips, but it was custom made for Nintendo and has its internal architecture designed in quite a different more economic fashion than real workstation chips (e.g. combining T&L and rasterizerion on the one individual ASIC).
Dreamcast was the first console to literally put a PC GPU (PowerVR) off the shelf inside of it with little to no modification.
>>3144148
The dreamcast PowerVR actually has a few features not in the consumer version.
>>3143346
>it will just become "anything that isn't new games"
Which is exactly what "retro" is.
>>3143029
>Mario 64
>horrible controls
It might seem like I'm biting, but really I'm just laughing at you
>>3143287
>They're damn lucky the N64 didn't break their company completely though. Thank fuck for Game Boy sales.
You were born in the late 90s
>>3144450
>horrible controls
Pic related. It's this guy playing some Mario 64.
>>3144205
Hmm, like what? I'm curious
>>3143171
I've only got 4 N64 games in my collection, and 3 of them are VC. It really was a terrible generation overall, sure it had some big games but considering what it ushered in I wouldn't say it was worth it. The GC was a better system in terms of library and design, but by then the Playstation brand had poisoned the well. The Wii was "traditional" gaming's last gasp. which only sold thanks to a clever arcade control scheme.
>>3143029
lol he keeps going with the cheap b8
>>3144490
Just to clarify some of the (key) differences between The PC and console versions of the series 2 HW,
CLX tile was 32x32, PC part was 32x16.
CLX support alpha test with HW front->back sorting to deliver massive effective fillrates when it was use, this was not available on the PC part.
CLX tiling was completely handled by HW, the PC part was 50:50 split between HW and SW
CLX include latency buffering that allowed VQ and palettised to run at full rate, this was removed from the PC part resulting in 50% performance for those formats.
CLX support 2 or 3 (think it was effectively 3 wasn't it Simon ?) external 32 bit memory busses (think in terms of much hyped NV/ATi crossbars), The PC part utilised a single 64 bit bus resulting much greate page break impact.
This all adds up to the PC part being between 50-75% of the performance of the console part inspite of the higher clock rate (125 vs 100 MHz)...
>>3142998
more like the Gamecube. All the games were shittier versions of stuff on the GC.
SNES is its own awesome beast that knows what it is doing and kicks ass at it
>>3144631
VQ textures weren't part of DX so it didn't seem very important to have a high-speed implementation in 250. Similarly, palettised textures were thought to be on their way out so only some 'legacy' support was included.
For the tile sizes, I think Sega themselves requested the 32x32 size because they wanted things like 'extremely fast' opaque overdraw and faster translucency sorting. I think the overdraw in PC games was typically limited (though often higher than some thought) and so this was not quite as important.
Some other features changed because there would have been no support for them in the APIs and even if an extension was included it's sometimes impossible to get a developer to use it. For example, DC had translucency sorting, which was used in the games. Neon250 also had this feature (which I think was even flagged in DX), but when you told the PC developers, I believe the response was frequently either (a) disbelief or (b) "that's nice but we are already sorting all the translucent polygons for cards X,Y, and Z and we couldn't be bothered to disable that for your chip".
(Of course, when Kyro had the translucency sorting removed because no one appeared to be using it, several ex-DC developers said that was a shame. Just shows you can't please everybody )
As for the busses, IIRC CLX had two semi-independent 32 bit busses to its RAM. I suspect that because PVR250 had to work in a PC environment, where there was a 64bit AGP bus, it made more sense to have these the same width.
>>3144631
>>3144639
That's pretty interesting actually. It also explains why the PC version of the card had rather disappointing performance.
But I think the point does still stand mostly because the PowerVR2 CLX in the Dreamcast is still very strongly based on the PC part. I think this is a bit like NV2A in the Xbox which is mostly a GeForce 3 but has a few features that no actual GeForce 3 has, like a second vertex shader.
N64's GPU (Reality Co-Processor) doesn't actually have a direct analog with any Silicon Graphics hardware. It's literally a custom built "best of SGI features now in console form factor" chip.
>>3144637
>SNES is its own awesome beast that knows what it is doing and kicks ass at it
Uh-huh.
That's why there's only a small amount of really good games and all the rest are fucking average or just shit.
You Genesis/SNES fags really need to take off the rose colored glasses.
>>3144701
As if an old PowerVR employee/developer would actually be here. That info was just copy/pasted from a discussion on beyond3D.
https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/powervr-2dc.14297/
>>3144459
I was born in 1977
>>3142998
it's more like mid-nineties dos vodoo card win98 pc than a gamecube or a super nintendo.
>>3142998
it's more like the wii.
>>3144472
You'd have to be a fucking idiot to hold the left handle instead of the center in fucking Mario 64.
>>3144732
I mean I knew it wasn't two anons actually discussing that. It was obviously a samefag copy pasting shit.
>>3142998
I consider it garbage thanks to its genre deficient library that focused solely on platformers, FPSes, and not much else.
>>3143029
>horrible cotrols
>>3144019
"senpai"
>>3142998
Love these threads trying to get 6th gen discussions going on a 5th gen or prior board.
Really subtle guys. OP is not retro.
>>3148484
Explain your reasoning, and list an actual counterargument.
all these playstation babbys hating on the superior console. you must have had no friends because multiplayer on N64 was 1000x more fun than anything you could do on playstation. shitters say n64 has no games, but how many games do you fucking need? we got Mario Kart 64, Mario Party, Super Smash Bros, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, DK64, Mario 64, Star Wars Racing, two Zelda games, paper mario for you jrpg faggots i mean cmon nigger. ps1 might have more games but they all suck
>>3145228
But Wii has better library than Gamecube.
>>3149005
PS1 had a lot of good games that weren't all just some iteration of Mario.
Please do not compare the N64 to those two excellent consoles.
Definitely more like Gamecube. The SNES was a different animal. Gamecube certainly improved what the N64 had and made it a lot better. The controllers, graphics and a lot more third party titles.
>>3145217
ok gpa
Gamecube for sure. The controllers are much more similar, and the games too.
GameCube is not retro, it never will be retro, even when it's 100 years old.
>>3143796
LOL is that nintendo definition of straight line
fucking nintentoddlers
