Why was Europe's Amiga scene so much better than computer gaming in America?
Were you kids too busy sucking Nintendo dick to notice the superiourity of computers?
>1 board games
>good
Australia-kun, you really need to leave this place and seek for professional help.
Why does this even need an explanation?
>go into computer store c. 1988
>see Amiga on display
>"Aiyyo, can this thing run Lotus 123?"
>"Nope."
>"Oh. Nevermind."
>>3095174
Amiga Castlevania > NES Castlevania
Deal with it.
Different tastes I suppose, enjoy your $6 a gallon gasoline, pollution and congestion charges, traffic cams everywhere and aspiring to own a 1.0L diesel shitbox since its all you can afford to insure.
After 1985, nothing here mattered except IBM compatibles except for the token number of art hipsters with Macs. The video game crash obliterated almost all non-IBM PC architectures.
I think they sold about 800,000 total Amigas in North America. All of the larger game devs such as Origin and Microprose supported them though a lot of Amiga games (especially arcade ports) were developed in Europe and imported over here.
Also Amiga dropped out of relevance in NA after 1990 and we never really did get to see the 32-bit models.
Because consoles never really took off in Europe until the PlayStation, if even that, so computers were the gaming platforms of choice. Compounding this was the lack of office-orientated IBM clones so computers like the Amiga and ST which has relatively good graphics could shine brighter.
>>3095203
>Because consoles never really took off in Europe until the PlayStation, if even that, so computers were the gaming platforms of choice. Compounding this was the lack of office-orientated IBM clones so computers like the Amiga and ST which has relatively good graphics could shine brighter.
Errors!
Firstly, consoles were definitely a thing in Europe since the late 80s however pre-PS1 era was completely dominated by Sega. Much like America, kids mostly played console games while computer gamers were 14 and up.
Also yes Europe very much did have IBM clones but they were almost entirely for business use and nobody had them at home until almost the Windows 9x era.
> superiourity
OP needs to learn how to spell.
>>3095182
I can deal with any of your delusional opinions, at this point nothing coming from you surprises me anymore.
But really, man, you should seek help.
Technology moved slower in Europe as well; 8-bit computers were relevant into the early 90s when they were largely replaced by 16-bit machines in the US after 1984.
Does anyone remember when clerks would kick children out of computer stores?
They hated children looking at the software.
>>3095238
Well, I mean the C64/128 was relevant here to up to 89-90. The Apple II was mostly relegated to the school market by the late 80s and still supported by software devs although not as much.
>Were you kids too busy sucking Nintendo dick to notice the superiourity of computers?
>superiourity
The Amiga had about maybe two dozen games worth playing, and even then they pale in compassion to what their Japanese contemporaries offered on the X68000 and FM Towns and even most consoles of the day.
>>3095182
>Amiga Castlevania > NES Castlevania
Holy fuck, sides are gone
>>3095170
Nobody was going to buy their kid a $1300 computer to play games on when they could spend $100 on a NES.
>>3095328
The fuck games did those Jap computers have that were worth playing? Dating sims are fucking shit, faggot.
>>3096197
What about the Amiga 500?
>>3096206
thank you for your gracious concession, anon.
>>3095182
top kek
>>3095170
It's well known fact that US childs were more retarded and less creative than European ones in 80's. They were also much more conditionned and brainwashed by TV ads and "car sellers" marketting techniques.
Just look who those kids (who are now adults) are choosing for president.
>>3096287
To be honest both US and UK kids were retarded as fuck, add to that Australian kids who were probably the most retarded of all.
Europe is too diverse anyway, some countries like France, Switzerland or Italy produced good people.
PC gaming always sucked though outside of 2 or 3 very specific genres, arcades and consoles is where it's at.
Cannon Fodder
Sensible Soccer
Lemmings
Another World
Flashback
Speedball 2
IK+
Alien Breed
Syndicate
Worms
What a time to be alive back then
>>3096292
>France
>good people
Top kek
>>3096302
>Amiga Castlevania
>>3095182
The title music is good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsAwiMx-IFw
>>3096495
Not bad, sounds like music you'd hear on TV documentals from the 90s, but it doesn't sounds like Castlevania.
>>3096287
>Just look who those kids (who are now adults) are choosing for president
I didn't vote for the Kenyan, dude. You can't pin that one on me.
>>3096206
Couple of console ports, Wizardry, and dating sims. That's about it.
>>3096302
That x68000 version of Castlevania looks and sounds pretty good. Are the controls also comparable to the arcade or NES version?
>>3096561
I would have guess so, what are you expecting from a nation where 50% of people are illiterate rednecks.
>>3095170
Literally the most retarded post I have ever read.
What's the point of a computer NASA-tier (not saying the Amiga is) if it has no fucking decent games and the ones it has are inferior to the version of a $100 dollar console because the programmers didn't know what to do with it.
Get fucked hipster.
It's just as well since 85% of Amiga software is for the 500/1200, not the 32-bit models.
>>3095226
That's the correct British spelling, Ameriburger. American "English" is cancre.
>>3096612
>What's the point of a computer NASA-tier (not saying the Amiga is) if it has no fucking decent games and the ones it has are inferior to the version of a $100 dollar console because the programmers didn't know what to do with it.
Go ask a Mac owner.
The US didn't really have the demo/music scene like Yurop.
>>3096740
And Europe/Australia didn't have an arcade scene like US and Japan did
>>3096746
However, most of the arcade ports on C64/Amiga were developed in Europe and converted to disk/NTSC for the American market.
>>3096771
>arcade ports on C64/Amiga
Trash
>>3096807
If you saw the Famicom ports of Commando and 1942 and then the C64 ports, you wouldn't say that.
>>3096771
I think it had to do with the video game crash being the reason for that. Many devs went under in 84-85 and the ones who were still left such as Sierra and Microprose did the more traditional computer game genres and not arcade stuff.
>>3096835
I did, all these ports are very unfaithful to the originals, the screen is cramped, etc.
The Famicom ports of these games are not the best thing ever, but I at least feel like I'm playing a console ports of the arcade games. The C64 versions are just a bizarre curiosity made in the west.
>>3096771
Disclaimer: I mean arcade ports from >1985. The early C64 arcade ports like Pac-Man and Donkey Kong of course were US-developed.
>>3096847
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTTR6U2a9dg
Come on, this is just bad.
>choppy
>very slow scrolling
>terrible sound (those nonstop beeps? the hell?)
Compare the C64 port.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPaDqp9mKq4
>nice, smooth animation
>good framerate
>actually has the music from the arcade game
>>3095182
>>3096861
The music is the only thing I'll give it, SID goodness, but otherwise I think it's a terrible port. Sorry, can't get over that awfully cramped, cropped screen.
Scrolling might be smoother, but I'll take the more screen space on the Famicom version which actually allow the enemies to behave like the arcade game.
Also the C64 version is graphically too barren. Doesn't even have any detail on the water or grass areas.
At the same time, there's C64 ports that are really bad compared to the NES.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcnZ35Uv4fM
vs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHH43AYxPa0
>>3096873
The Commodore had a really nice palette for kid games.
NES Commando. This port is better than 1942 although the sound is eh and the graphics also look pretty bland.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENSwJx15vq0
C64 Commando. Better framerate and also much better sound. I also find the color palette more tasteful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDAhixO2t5w
>>3096876
>The Commodore had a really nice palette for kid games
It's a very 80s palette. Lots of bright pastels.
Bubble Bobble is one game where the C64 port really comes up short especially the cheese-grater music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsMvGCiUtyc
NES version has music that's much gentler and easier on the ears, also the framerate is better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O49OgQ_kogw
>>3096881
Of if you want, I can also show you the worst Commando port. Yuck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5h1smUA4lQ
>>3096882
It's beautiful. Shame about the load times.
Because American investors were scared of videogames after 1983 crash, which basically never happened in Europe.
So while Europe was still making videogames just like before, game development in the US became underfunded and remained that way until the IBM PC and MS-DOS had come to unqestionably dominate the home computer market.
>>3096893
Not just that but the NES has something like 20 extra levels and an expanded ending. You can't beat a port made by the devs themselves.
>>3096932
>Not just that but the NES has something like 20 extra levels and an expanded ending
Was that in the arcade game or is it unique to the NES port.
>You can't beat a port made by the devs themselves
'Cept for that shitty Famicom Ms. Pac-Man.
1942 is a slightly funny game.
>Jap dev makes game where you're an American pilot shooting down Zeros in WWII
You fucking Europeans should fuck off with your shitty shovelware machines.
Reminds me of the people who unironically think Turrican 3 is better than Mega Turrican.
>>3096916
>until the IBM PC and MS-DOS had come to unqestionably dominate the home computer market.
And even then they remained underfunded, until a few games like Wolfentstein and Doom became extremely popular, and more powerful audio/video hardware became available in the early 90s.
>>3096947
Not really true though, Sierra, Origin, and Microprose had high quality, professionally-made computer games.
>>3096942
There was a Taito game Sky Destroyer which is basically like 1942 (and may have inspired it) where you play the Japanese side.
>>3096951
>interactive fiction
>real game
Pick one.
>>3096946
Ditto their arpeggio fart wave music. And no, Turrican is not better than NES run-and-guns like Mega Man.
>>3096901
I'm not sure why they call this a DOS game since it was on a self-booting disk.
>>3096962
There's a Turrican on NES! And it's pretty good.
>>3096975
Capcom ported Commando themselves while Micronics did 1942 and I think Pony Canyon did Ghosts'N'Goblins (which both suck).
>>3096984
No, Micronics did definitely port GNG.
>>3096984
Ghosts 'N Goblins was Micronics. You can tell because it flickers non fucking stop.
Still a decent port despite that, I'd take it over the shitty computer ports any day.
It's really unfair to judge the NES based on Micronics ports though.
>>3096937
Unique to the NES, the Arcade goes up to level 100 and the NES throws a couple more after that.
The NES Ghostbusters was pretty comically awful too although that wasn't an arcade game.
>>3096993
Well, the C64 port has some pretty cool music but otherwise it's very far from an accurate conversion.
>>3097000
I'd rather have the Ghosts 'N Goblins theme over some random European's music.
That's another thing I heavily dislike about the PC ports of that time. Not only are they always inaccurate approximations, they always put their own unneeded touch on top of it.
>>3097002
>random European
That's Tim Follin. But yeah I agree.
>>3097014
He's from England.
I said random because it genuinely is random in this case and unneeded. Why does Sky Shark need an almost EDM-like soundtrack compared to the original's almost military sounding music?
If it's remixes I don't mind, I like Turbo Outrun's C64 music, at least it's from the original game.
>>3097021
I heard some other anon say in most cases the music was done by free lance artists and completely separate from development, which lead to a lot of techno that didn't fit.
Also Turrican is a shitty fucking game.
Inexcusable europlatformer game design.
The 2nd game fares slightly better.
C64 had the worst port of Galaxian easily.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3mt2FxWuF8
NES port (unfortunately not released in North America) is fantastic and almost arcade-perfect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXQimYB8sUA
>>3097021
On the other hand, NES Robocop
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt2hg1hlRb4
vs C64 Robocop
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbMfCpD8gk4
Totally different music but 100x more badass. This has to be one of my top five SID tunes of all time.
>>3097072
The hell. How do you fuck up something as simple as Galaxian?
C64 Platoon also beats the NES version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNfsY4CnJzA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un9Wy-iKmp8
>>3097082
I was wondering that as well since most ports of Galaxian were quite good even the Atari 2600.
>>3097097
No but I love the funky music.
>>3095182
>amiga super c
>amiga battletoads
>>3097097
>At least the NES version has recognizable music
Perhaps but on the plus the C64 music fits the atmosphere of the game instead of being some random EDM tune.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBqbSEBjZqI
I can't believe the MSX, a computer on par with the colecovision in terms of specs, had a better port of this.
>>3097132
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TB3j8rlQrU
>monochromatic sprites
>bleeper sound
>choppy scrolling
Dude, this is not better than the C64.
>>3097167
It looks, plays and sounds more like the arcade version than the C64 version ever will. Did you see that 2nd stage in the C64 version? The programmer literally gave up and didn't even try to make it look like the arcade original. The later biological stage also looks NOTHING like the arcade version.
Keep in mind you also linked the PAL version, which is unoptimized and has shittier audio.
You can also extend the MSX sound.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yucFVhoY6YA
Again, this is a computer with Colecovision specs and it still has the better adaptation.
>>3097082
Most of those C64 Atarisoft ports were rather lousy. Ms. Pac-Man and Donkey Kong were probably the best although they still have a few annoying problems. Still considering that Galaxian is a much simpler game than Donkey Kong (which was a bitch to recreate on early 80s home systems), it makes you wonder.
>>3095170
>too busy sucking Nintendo dick to notice the superiourity of computers?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wH5FKJ4gpdY
On the other hand, you would literally cry if you saw the IBM port of Platoon.
Guerrilla War (both videos here were recorded from real hardware and not emulation). The C64 port is like "What the hell is this?" tier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHAjbLhk-QM
NES version looks fantastic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTs-6dgGxqs
>>3097210
Ah yes, Guerrilla War. I understand that in the original Japanese version, you play Fidel Castro and Che Guevara fighting to overthrow Batista, but they changed this in the US version to generic fighters overthrowing nameless dictator because Amerifats might get butthurt.
>>3097223
Burgers are just upset that their shitty puppet dictator in Cuba got overthrown and the Cuban people freed themselves and now have universal health care (that Murka still does not have in 2016).
>>3097223
Do you know how active the Cuban-American lobby is? It was even more so in the 80s.
>>3097282
You mean all the cowards who didn't want to help build the revolution and fled to Clapistan?
>>3096302
>Amiga Castlevania
No soundtrack deserves to be put through that level of mutilation.
>>3097292
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zivaZ8sNHZk
C64 Castlevania is rather unpleasant on the ears.
>>3097306
It's unpleasant on the eyes too with that color palette, dear god.
>comparing the NES ports of arcade games made by the original devs who had full access to all design and tech info for the game plus six months to a year to work on it versus home computer ports banged out in a few weeks by one programmer who wrote all the code on paper and manually entered it into the computer with a machine language monitor
>>3097323
The palette isn't that bad considering C64 has less colors to work with than the NES.
>>3097324
And that's the thing, why do Europeans always come here and say their machines are better when all they could crank out was shit approximations like this?
Or games that imitate those Japanese games and they completely miss the point so the games are bad?
>>3097332
Galaxian and that Castlevania port were both done by NTSC devs.
>>3097342
And where was the C64 and Amiga REALLY popular?
>>3097238
Actually, we got it in 2010. :^)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act
>>3097354
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_Games
Nope. Definitely done in the US. In fact I remember on the Lemon 64 forum some Yuropoors were saying how poorly done that Castlevania was and "LOLtypical shoddy NTSC developer".
>>3097367
Ultra Games was not the developer for that port.
Ultra Games was just Konami's secondary publishing arm because the NoA had a wacky rule about a 5 game limit per year for the NES.
>>3097365
>that shite handout to insurance companies
>UHC
Pick one, Clapistan.
>>3097367
The credits say that the main programmer was a guy Alan Stewart who was from Scotland (according to Mobygames) so it seems most likely to have been done in Bongland.
>>3095203
>Because consoles never really took off in Europe until the PlayStation
European here old enough to remember that time.
This is somehow true, consoles were a thing (especially the Mega Drive, which was huge) but microcomputers were definitely more common.
This has a simple explanation: in many countries until the late 80s and in some even the early 90s software piracy wasn't illegal, so newsstands were full of cheap c64/ZX cassettes with 6-10 full games inside, later even with the first Amiga floppies.
I actually don't think C64 Castlevania is a bad port if they'd done the music better and hadn't been so lazy that they decided to rotate the sprites rather than use a multiplexer which is why it's so flickery.
>>3097390
Consoles weren't a thing in Europe until the NES era (Europe completely skipped over the Pong/Atari era for some reason).
>>3097342
Come on, Galaxian was done in 1983. The C64 had only been out a year and programmers didn't know the hardware that well, also dev tools were very limited back then.
>>3097403
Not really, there was a florid production of various Pong machines especially in Italy and Germany (and the design of those things are amazing), as well as the Atari doing somewhat good for that time, but surely it was a niche market and not even close to american sales in terms of numbers.
>>3097371
Well, whatever... our taxes go instead to having the highest defense budget of any nation which makes USA the safest country in terms of foreign attacks.
Besides, I'd rather pay for good health care than have the state provide shit health care for me like what you socialist countries have.
>>3097403
There was the Interton VC 4000 in West Germany and the BSS 01 in Eastgermany.
>>3097417
Still doesn't excuse the fact that the Atari 400/800, Apple II, and even Atari 2600 ports were all far better (ok maybe the sound on the Apple version is kind of annoying).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksYGCX-xJE4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRliyebNjXY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ttbu0UqBFE
>>3097427
Two of those ports were done in-house so Atari sure better have known how to program their own hardware.
>>3097425
Not once Donald Trump makes Yurop pay for their own defense. ;)
>>3097417
I do agree that most C64 games from the early days (82-84) were pretty crude and generally below the standard of Apple II/Atari 8-bit stuff since those computers were a couple years older and programmers had more experience with them. C64 really didn't come into its own into the NES era.
>>3097370
>because the NoA had a wacky rule about a 5 game limit per year for the NES
This was done to prevent the flood of shovelware that caused the North American video game crash which killed many game companies.
>>3097443
Yeah, but they really didn't need it after a bit.
Especially when you consider you had to get a license from them to develop for the console at all.
>>3097443
NES still had a lot more shitty games than the 4th gen.
>>3097438
You're kind of right and I myself generally associate the C64 more with the NES era than the Atari era. It came out in 82, but didn't start to gain sales traction until mid-83 just as the crash was beginning and its peak development-wise came after all the pre-crash architectures were kill.
I have heard that the great american video game crash was actually the second crash to occur.
There was an earlier crash at the end of the 1st gen of game consoles.
Does anyone know more about this?
>>3097463
>I have heard that the great american video game crash
The term "video game crash" is a slight misnomer since it was actually a collapse of both the computer and video game markets.
>>3097457
>Is their RF output compatible with north american TV sets?
>he asks if RF designed for PAL and European channel numbering is compatible with US TV sets
If I didn't know better, I'd swear he's trying to make a funny.
>>3097183
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmlDWtudBh8
C64 Donkey Kong is actually not a bad port, but it plays like molasses because the programmer decided to use bitmap mode instead of character graphics for some reason.
>>3097332
I'm not defending Ocean at all. They were shite and did nothing but grab as many licences as possible to crank out terrible, half-arsed conversions of arcade games.
>>3097348
Amiga was mostly a Yuropoor thing. C64 was about 50/50 America/Europe.
>>3097324
>>3097494
>>3097417
In the early days, programmers didn't have a lot of documentation for the C64 except the Technical Reference Guide which didn't cover a lot of stuff (especially using interrupts). A lot of C64 programming tricks were discovered by trial and error or reverse-engineering the thing. Later European games like Creatures 2 did things that even the original Commodore engineers didn't know were possible.
>>3097516
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KClk0ok-LiY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bIpXvt0wxo
Damn. You wouldn't even think these two games are running on the same hardware.
>>3097516
You also forget that dev tools in the 80s were really limited unless you worked for a big outfit like Atari. Half of those arcade ports could be done 10x better with today's tools and all the accumulated programming knowledge.
>>3097348
Amongst the 17 millions of C64 sold over the world (plus the 4.5 m of C128 which were basically the same thing) over 12 were sold in Western Europe. Mind that I say Western since there was still the Iron Curtain.
is this going to be some pc master race shit again?
>>3097537
Eastern Europe back then was mostly full of shitty commie Spectrum clones.
>>3097537
C128 would have mostly been sold in the US and continental Europe. It didn't exist in Britain because >implying disk drives.
I checked Amiga sales figures. Worldwide it was about 4 million however North American sales were under 1 million.
Go read up on Sierra, Broderbund, Synapse, Origin, LucasArts, and Microprose and tell me Americans couldn't into computer gaming.
>>3097545
I think that in Britain ZX Spectrum was the king
>>3097560
>interactive fiction with bleeper sound and loads of horrible disk access
>good
Really, America?
>>3097568
Spectrum was just poorfag rubbish for kids that couldn't afford a C64 or Amstrad.
>>3097569
>horrible disk access
On a HDD?
>>3097569
>taking 45 minutes to load games off a cassette tape
>>3096691
Your bait is so bad you don't even get a pic.
>>3095170
Because your reality is whatever 3rd world village you grew up in. Meanwhile, in America I got one of the first 1000s, then a 2000 and a toaster and a 500 just for games. Wrote a few intros, cracked/trained a lot of games. And it wasn't just me. There were a couple guys from tristar and wow in my area. I was vf.
>>3097516
You're joking, right? Mine came with a programmers guide as thick as a phone book that covered everything from learning basic to every single bit used for interrupts. I discovered a few undocumented op codes by trial and error and there were a few ways to actually exploit the hardware to do things it wasn't intended to. But none of that ever stood in the way of anyone coding anything.
What computer had the worst arcade ports? The ZX Spectrum?
Ignore the Bong in here. We had disks in Germany and I'm fairly sure everywhere else on the continent. Britpoors were the only country that was too poor to afford disk drives. A lot of German games were adventures and strategy titles similar to the American stuff. There's many very good ones that are unfortunately obscure because they're not in English.
>>3097578
If you mean the Commodore Programmer's Reference Guide, yes it didn't cover everything which is why a lot of programming tricks were discovered by reverse engineering or T&E.
>>3097583
And we also got all the Britbong stuff. So we got the best of both worlds. The Britbong cassette arcade games also PAL conversions of American games because we actually had disk drives.
>>3097569
>he doesn't know that fellow Bong Douglas Adams helped develop the Infocom Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy
>>3097569
>bleeper sound
you mean isn't filled with arpeggio farts to the brim?
>>3097583
Too bad you could not into winning world wars, Jurgen.
>>3097592
I do admit that American devs other than LucasArts never did figure out how to do anything with the SID outside the default envelopes.
>>3097576
The reason a lot of games were on floppy is because games like Ultima IV and Maniac Mansion were way too fucking big for a single tape. And also couldn't fit entirely on memory.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlMWwW1hzXc
(this was recorded off a real C64 so the quality is a little bad)
Microprose were the elite of the elite of NTSC devs though their games are very dry, realistic sims/strategy titles so maybe not your thing if you favor the Yuropoor "run around brightly colored level stomping enemies while gargle music plays".
>>3097605
There were some two-parter British tape games that required you to flip the cassette over, but they're never more than 64k in size and no or almost no tape games supported saving your progress.
>>3097594
LucasArts adventures were pretty popular in Europe desu because they're closer to the European taste for goofy cartoon-themed games.
>>3097608
>terrorists attack Soviet oil refineries
>the Kremlin decides to invade Arabs and take their shit
>but since this would trigger a massive NATO retaliation, they decide to first nuke all NATO members to get them out of the way
I get the feeling Microprose really didn't have a good understanding of geopolitics or why this scenario could not have possibly happened IRL.
>>3097608
At least they tried doing something original, only the yuropoors who did nothing but try to rip off the Japanese.
lol @ yuropoors who think Gianna Sisters is better than SMB
>150+ posts
>nobody mentioned the best European computer game
>>3097618
not only is it a video game, it's also based on a tom clancy book
not exactly meant to be realistic
>>3097619
I have seen some of these delusional Yuropoors on Lemon 64. Especially the ones shittalking Castlevania.
>this is nothing but rubbish. Commodore gaming should be about great original titles and not ports of Jap crap that's just used to sell merchandise to little kids and casuals
>>3097629
i do agree that the devs should have spent more time on actually making their own original games
but the guys at lemon64 are just butthurt because there's nothing comparable to castlevania's greatness on their computer
>>3097619
As I said, we had plenty of strat games in Germany although stuff like these Microprose titles where you fight Russians was banned here (we were shit-scared of Russians back then).
>>3097621
I loved this game when I was little
>>3097638
that's good but it just seems like such a minority of european games to me
you guys also made turrican, which i cant believe is actually praised here sometimes, the only good thing about it is the impressive music and graphics
>thinking Nintenyearold games are better
Protip: 90% of them consisted of "Run through scrolling levels while shooting/stomping/punching enemies. Defeat boss. Collect magic talisman which you then use to defeat the next boss."
Compared to that, the colour and diversity of our computer games was incredible. Try something like Wizball and get back to me.
>>3097647
lol i think i've seen this exact post before
>>3097645
>that's good but it just seems like such a minority of european games to me
You just don't know about German adventure/strat games because they're not in English which dooms them to obscurity outside of Germany/Switzerland/Austria.
>>3097647
I do agree you can't beat a lot of C64 games just for being really weird and different.
>>3097636
Creatures and Mayhem in Monsterland are pretty good but they still don't touch the best NES titles.
>>3097654
This only really applies to European games though since American computer gaming was nearly as boring and stilted as the NES.
What would you like to play today? Pick one:
*Dungeon crawler
*Adventure game (interactive fiction barely even counts as a "game")
*Sports sim
*War sim
*Flying sim
>>3097629
I actually went to Lemon64 and found this gem:
>I get the feeling that NES engineers used as cheap & simple designs as possible, often making it quite infernal & cryptic to program compared to C64's grace & dignity (and even C64 had its sacrifices/shortcomings..)
Keep in mind the C64 shares a VERY similar processor with the NES, and as another anon pointed out, was actually fairly undocumented.
>>3097661
As opposed to Europe's europlatformers, euroshmups and cheap conversions?
Yeah, I'll take those over that. At least American games took advantage of computer's complexity.
>>3097638
I'm Italian and back then we had a shitload of text adventures made by italian programmers.
Since they were text based I doubt any of them left the country, but I remember they were massive amongst people in hs/university and into games. I was a kid so I didn't mind but I remember my sister's bf being crazy about these serious spy stories/D&D ripoff and such, those were also the times of the first gamebooks.
Partially on topic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLJ3yStireM
>>3097654
>NES games were expensive to make
>devs don't want to take risks and prefer sticking to tried-and-true formulas
Duh.
C64/Amstrad/Spectrum titles were mostly just made by 1-2 lads in their den who simply did whatever they thought was fun or interesting. Console games feel more like a commercial product than a programmer's personal labour of love.
>>3097674
Yeah, I'm sure the port of Castlevania was a real labour of love.
>>3097638
We did of course get games like Pirates! that didn't run the risk of offending a nation that had thousands of troops and nuclear missiles next door to us.
>>3097684
I meant original titles, not shite ports. I do agree that a lot of programmers probably weren't big on doing conversions of Japanese console shite that they didn't really like or care about.
>>3097669
>At least American games took advantage of computer's complexity.
I'm real sure there's any NTSC games that look like Creatures 2.
>>3097708
You're not getting what I mean, are you?
I mean they actually had strategy games and adventure games, which were WAY more painful to play on the NES.
I don't give a shit about Creatures 2's pretty graphics. That's dancing baloney.
>>3097713
>I mean they actually had strategy games and adventure games, which were WAY more painful to play on the NES
That doesn't prove anything except that computers are better cut out for this genre than consoles. You ever tried the PS1 port of Civ2?
>>3097723
We're talking about the C64 and Amiga, though.
It's unrelated.
The point I'm making is the C64 is horrible for action games. Hell, it doesn't even support more than one fucking button on a controller.
>>3097619
Wizball is sure a hell of a lot more original than the hundreds of shitty Ultima clones that Americans had to play.
>>3097727
>The point I'm making is the C64 is horrible for action games
I don't think you know what the phrase "horrible for action games" means until you tried playing them on a PC compatible from the late 80s-early 90s.
>>3097728
You mean the Ultima clones no one bought because, well, they were Ultima clones?
At least it's not euroshmups and europlats.
>>3097730
Well that practically doesn't count.
IBM PC compatibles weren't meant for gaming until at least 1992. They were office machines first and foremost. You had to hate yourself to buy a PC compatible to play games before that.
But hey, at least most of the old CGA games don't seem to force you to use a joystick AND the keyboard at the same time.
>>3097713
>I don't give a shit about Creatures 2's pretty graphics. That's dancing baloney.
Considering this is the typical NTSC Commodore 64 game...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ueseD5D5yE
I love the C64 port of Arkanoid though. This is a nice conversion and one of the very few C64 games that can use paddles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF1mBe5I_k4
>>3097751
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVf0sqqUMak
NES version doesn't have very good music and why does it leave out the intro from the arcade game when all of the computer ports have it?
>>3097738
>literally posting shovelware
>>3097754
I've seen the cartridge for sale before but I always passed it up because I don't have the stupid controller for Arkanoid (they're hard to find and usually don't work)
>>3097738
And the typical PAL game is either a euroshmup, europlat, or a shit port that never plays like the original.
Again, I don't even give a shit about Creatures 2's graphics.
>>3097734
>IBM PC compatibles weren't meant for gaming until at least 1992.
Tandys were meant for gaming.
VGA and sound cards came out in the late 80s and had decent support by 1990.
>>3097773
You still had to be insane to want one specifically for gaming though.
>>3097738
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs8ReVVgjVI
You still wanna argue with me about the excellence of Yuropoor games?
>>3097751
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-az38oF444
The PC Arkanoid is pretty good as well. I like its minimalism.
It's a shame how ultimately underused the Amiga was as a gaming platform.
Either awful Atari ST straight ports or awful console conversions. The few games wrote specifically for the hardware often suffered from awful game design choices or terrible/nonexistent art direction.
>>3097783
>game from 1984 early in the C64's lifespan
>surprised it looks crude
At least Megahawk is an original game and not some sorry licenced game based on a TV show.
>>3097786
Microprose had the best Amiga conversions if only they didn't have copy protection forged by Lucifer himself.
>>3097787
>and not some sorry licenced game
Rich, coming from an European.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL35HvTIMmw
Can't blame this one on Americans.
>>3097795
>The music is way better than in the NES version
and the game's entirely silent except for the title screen
i bet you can find some delusional yuropoors who will defend this port
>>3097793
The point was more that it's cheap for him to compare an original title like Megahawk to a rubbish licenced game.
If you're going to use licenced games as an argument, at least compare them against other licenced games.
>>3095170
Oh we had friends.
>>3097801
>i bet you can find some delusional yuropoors who will defend this port
They're not even that insane. Pretty much everyone is in universal agreement that C64 Double Dragon is a completely pathetic, shameful conversion.
>>3097785
>The PC Arkanoid is pretty good as well. I like its minimalism.
Old Taito ports were surprisingly fun on the PC. The DOS version of Volfied was one of my favourite early PC games.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxuMVqkLD7o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLbSnnVeY_g
When even the DOS version of DD is better, you know you're doing it wrong.
AMIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGGGGGAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
t.Revision party goer
>>3097809
I actually kind of like that port. No music but at least it plays pretty smoothly and has a good framerate.
>>3097621
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blDZAM7Pszs
This is really the only exposure Americans had to Dizzy.
>>3097881
these fucking arpeggios, why
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tkSSDT8u5o
Europe totally never had licensed shovelware, no sir.
>>3097887
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvnRjAJMklE
If you like gargle music, try this on for size.
>>3097904
IIRC this was the last Dizzy game made for the C64 and also the only one to not simply copy the monochrome Spectrum graphics.
The Amiga Dizzys are awful; for some reason they were never able to adapt the games to that platform properly.
>>3097895
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnww_FoopV4
More licensed shovelware ports.
I love how it's missing like 4 stages and has really inaccurate music overall. I actually played it, and it feels like a turd.
>>3097909
>The Amiga Dizzys are awful;
oh no u didn't nigga
>>3097895
That's actually a very cute and fun game certainly better than the tons of shite American dungeon crawlers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o4_zcRDbCM
This is a pretty good port although the NES version looks brighter and plays much more smoothly (the scrolling on the C64 is soooo slow).
>>3096893
I really detest the music in this version.
Giana Sisters also sure isn't better than SMB by a long shot.
>>3097936
They had ports of MC Kids on the C64, Amiga, and PC but all of them were Europe-only. The first two weren't relevant here anymore by the early 90s, but I don't know why we didn't get the PC port.
>>3097942
I can't believe the C64 doesn't even have TWO fucking face buttons, too.
It's a serious design flaw that I think the Amiga still had.
I sure like having to play Turrican with a joystick, while pressing spacebar with my toes.
>>3097951
Also the SID chip is a seriously overrated chip.
3 fucking voices, for what purpose?
Literally everyone had to work around it's shit limitations.
>>3097951
>I can't believe the C64 doesn't even have TWO fucking face buttons, too
Dudedudedude. It was designed in the Atari days when almost no games needed more than 1 button. I don't understand why the Amiga didn't have 2 though.
>>3097964
And a year later, the Famicom came out in Japan and Nintendo understood that 1 face button was not enough. So you get 4 of them.
The C64 is really piss poor.
Also you yuropoors make me fucking laugh with that Wizball and Mayhem in Monsterland shit.
Are those the only two good games you can name?
>>3097968
>The C64 is really piss poor.
Fight me IRL, faget.
>>3097968
>>3097956
ITT: People who clearly have no understanding of period technology or the intended target market/competition
For one thing, the Famicom was explicitly based on arcade hardware, also computers are designed for a different kind of gaming than consoles. Try and play the SNES port of SimCity and see what I mean.
>>3097974
How does it feel to know that even a Colecovision (MSX) computer has better games? Hell, it can't do hardware scrolling.
>>3097971
Thing on a Spring. Very nice little game and it doesn't have that dreaded arpeggio music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgPBZd8wknA
>>3097979
Yes, please continue shitting on my entire childhood and make me feel bad.
Thanks
>>3097979
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHajxrEvSME
Just no, ok?
>>3097971
Oh, I don't know. Maybe a little game called The Last Ninja.
I grew up with the amiga 500, so I have a lot of nostalgia for it. I've been recently replaying a lot of the old games I had for it on winuae, and I gotta say that it was mostly shit.
In my opinion, the biggest problem with amiga games was that they were designed for the basic 1 button joysticks. A lot of games with shit controls (holding up on the joystick to jump) and very limited gameplay mechanics. Some games were smart enough to have special attacks bound to keyboard buttons though.
A lot of times a multiplatform game on the amiga would have a better version on dos or consoles, although the amiga versions would sometimes have better graphics or music. Not worth it for the floppy disk loading times though.
After playing a bunch of amiga games recently, I'd say there was only a handful that I'd consider replaying.
>>3097996
>If you think that's unfair, I can even give you MSX1 games
Do it faggot.
>>3097996
>The VIC-II chip was literally designed for video games, though
Which kind of proves my point that you're pretty uninformed. VIC-II was a bit older than the PPU in the Famicom although you should again consider that the PPU was modeled on arcade hardware while Commodore were not a video game manufacturer. They were really trying to go after the Atari 400/800 and TI-99/4A.
If anything, the VIC-II and PPU were both heavily inspired by the TMS 9918 (the guts of the Colecovision). But one other thing to remember is that the NES's capabilities could also be expanded with mapper chips which you could not do on the C64. On the other hand, the PPU is not as thoroughly explored as the VIC-II.
>>3097987
So the Commodore 64 is a computer where joysticks couldn't have more than one face button, had the most overrated 3 channel sound chip ever made, it couldn't be expanded because every game came on floppy and tapes and had a disproportionate amount of shovelware. Great computer.
>>3097997
You mean the game people only seem to like for the visuals and music?
>>3098002
Look up Konami MSX1 games. The Gradius/Nemesis series, especially. Despite the MSX's limitations, they blow most of the C64 library out of the water.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yswWoP4doI8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG29xycW27E
Mighty Bombjack. This is a really nice port and the music is cute as well (no arpeggios/fart waves for once).
>>3098012
>So the Commodore 64 is a computer where joysticks couldn't have more than one face button
Dude, we've been over this and over this. It came out in 1982 when no games needed more than 1 button. I do agree the Amiga's lack of a two button stick was inexcusable.
> had the most overrated 3 channel sound chip ever made
What would be an example of a non-overrated sound chip.
> it couldn't be expanded because every game came on floppy and tapes
This is true for any computer as well as all consoles since the PS1.
>and had a disproportionate amount of shovelware
Wha...the Atari 2600 and NES didn't have fuckpiles of shovelware?
>>3098018
>Dude, we've been over this and over this. It came out in 1982 when no games needed more than 1 button. I do agree the Amiga's lack of a two button stick was inexcusable.
Yes, and only a few months later the Famicom came out and had more buttons, this is not hard to understand.
>What would be an example of a non-overrated sound chip.
FM chips (hurr it sounds like farts xD is what most people think), Konami SCC.
Weren't most early SIDs also badly engineered, which resulted in them randomly breaking?
>This is true for any computer as well as all consoles since the PS1.
We're comparing it to the NES and MSX here, both of which could easily be expanded.
>Wha...the Atari 2600 and NES didn't have fuckpiles of shovelware?
The NES at least had some form of protection against it. Hence the word disproportionate.
>>3098012
I think those Gradius ports are a little unfair comparison because Konami did the ports in-house. I will say however that the game is technically far more impressive than anything on the Colecovision which had the same chipset.
>>3098026
>We're comparing it to the NES and MSX here, both of which could easily be expanded
I'[m fairly sure though that you can't stick an extra graphics chip on an MSX floppy.
>>3098026
>Yes, and only a few months later the Famicom came out and had more buttons, this is not hard to understand
It was more like an entire year. Actually the C64 came out in mid-1982 around the same time when design work would have started on the Famicom. Nintendo built the first prototype in late 82 and the console went on sale in July 83. Design work on the C64 was mostly done during 1981.
Though beside the point, computers do have a keyboard to compensate for the extra buttons.
IIRC the Apple II always had two button joysticks. Even the IBM PC had two button sticks and that wasn't even a home computer.
