Holy shit this game is boring after the first 4-5 hours. The beginning was great. Beautiful music, fun combat... but you end up doing the same thing over and over and over...
It's getting fucking tedious. I have 4 sorcerers. 2 of them are almost masters of fire, 1 is almost a master of water, and 1 is an expert in air and light. Everyone is an expert in air.
About to do the quest for the arch mage promotion.
But holy moly I don't want to play anymore. So damn repetitive.
Is the game more fun (i.e. faster and less tedious) with non-magic characters? Like 3 knights to just bash heads in and 1 sorcerer for utility skills like fly and town portal?
I don't know if I can handle 60-70 more hours of this. It's so damn repetitive... Ugh.
>>3088409
Is this your first RPG?
Why would you run 4 sorcerers in the first place? Why not go with a more balanced party for the start?
M&M is not a deep series. Most of the time you just spam quick fight and mow through hordes of enemies.
The most fun I had was when I had ventured way too deep into enemy territory and barely managed to escape using the landscape to my advantage.
Also, mountain climbing. It's just fun to explore.
>>3088409
Are there any games similar to this on Genesis?
>>3088848
A game like M&M6 would vastly exceed the Genesis capabilities.
There's a port of M&M2. And M&M3 for Mega CD.
>>3088848
Buck Rogers: Countdown to Doomsday
>>3088848
Dungeon Master II?
>>3088848
Maybe Shining In The Darkness, but it's more a dungeon crawler and nowhere near as deep as the PC RPGs of that time.
>please euthanize me
Enemy spam and some dungeons in this game can be kind of tedious. But overall there is enough variety and exploration and fun characters.
>>3089514
4 sorcs doesnt seem very fun for a first runthrough.
the game really opens up once you have fly, town portal, and lloyds beacon. then it becomes a blast. probably my favorite rpg ever
>>3088663
>Why would you run 4 sorcerers in the first place?
Because it's the most OP party setup in M&M6?
>>3089554
Do you look up guides what's the most overpowered party before playing RPGs?
And in a lot of cases it's based on personal preference and profound knowledge of the game. Sometimes it gets downright tedious.
>>3088848
>Sega 16-bit RPGs
Nope. Shadowrun is as "deep" as it goes for RPGs on those consoles. But it's an action RPG based on the /tg/.
>>3089554
4 sorcs will be very strong once you get LB , but its kind of lame when everyone is using the same equipment.
a ton of the fun in mm6 is using all the different loot you get.
Is there any point in getting more than 1 water magic master? Like, I get that they're amazing for TP and Lloyd's Beacon. But they suck for damage, and 5 beacons seem to be enough for me.
>>3089863
>and 5 beacons seem to be enough for me.
You still get three beacons that last for 4+ days for each water expert.
But it's not like you can't go for another water master if you feel you could use two.
You should play 7 instead. It's much better, the story is pretty great, the classes all feel pretty good, and the overall locations are better.
Not saying 6 is bad, but I think 7 is the better game
>>3091398
7 is good, but the dungeons, level of exploration, and size of 6 blows 7 away.
plus 7 is very linear and the introduction of GM skills limits the interesting party combos you can make.
not to mention inventory management is much worse due to repair/id item only being mastered/gm by a couple classes.
OP here.
MM6 still going well for me. Great game. I was irritated when I made this thread because I didn't have water mastery yet.
Water mastery TP and LB are game changers.
Fire mastery is pretty good. Point-blank Fire Blast is great. Ring of Fire is good for cheesing stuck enemies. Meteor is inferior to lvl 4 master Starburst. Incinerate is a great lvl 1 spell for taking out 20+ baddies.
Air mastery is insane. Fly is priceless. Sparks is priceless in dungeons. Starburst wipes out everything on the world map.
Water mastery is priceless. Enchant items is priceless. I can't imagine playing without TP and LB.
I got everyone to lvl 4 master Light and expert Dark... but I haven't gotten that much use from Light and Dark. I guess I'll need to pump up Light as much as I can on 1 character to have HoP and DotG last long enough to be useful.
I think I'll go for 2 light masters with 15+ points, and 2 dark masters with 15+ points for point-blank Shrapmetal.
When do I get blasters? I've heard someone say at the 2/3rd point of the game while another said at the 90% completion point of the game.
>>3091398
I already bought 7 on gog. Just waiting to play it now once I finish 6.
I'm enjoying mm6 a lot though. It feels like the Dynasty Warriors of RPGs (in terms of combat) because of how many enemies you wipe out. Starbursting 25+ baddies in one shot is cathartic as fuck.
Honestly, I passed up on mm6 for a long time because, let's face it, the aesthetics of the game are atrocious and inconsistent. But the gameplay, music and overall design are fantastic.
>>3091662
>I think I'll go for 2 light masters with 15+ points, and 2 dark masters with 15+ points for point-blank Shrapmetal.
Uh actually, I think I'll go for just 1 character with as many points in Light, and the other 3 in Dark.
>>3088409
Completely empathise OP. I tried this a few months ago and gave it around 20 hours before giving up. I would say I got around 1/3 of the way through the game given how much of the map I had explored. I couldn't justify spending any more time on it though as you said, it was becoming a serious chore.
>Loved large gameworld that was interconnected
>Loved the hybrid, turn based real time combat
>Realistic sized towns are awkward to navigate when everything looks the same (I appreciate they're not Skyrim sized but come on, there's barely any structure when you have like 80 buildings cirled around a single water fountain (Free Haven).
>Large numbers of fodder enemies in fairly similar dungeons take time to kill and so become extremely tedious to grind through - Oh look, 30 more serpent men in this room, let's spend 10 minutes killing them.
>Inventory management is even worse than Neverwinter nights, which is saying something
>Levelling/skills system is really unintuitive and convoluted.
>Skills like identify should be shared across the party if at least one person has it.
>The map in the top left is practically 1:1, even fully zoomed out it's useless. In fact most of the hud should ideally be optional (not sure if mods fixed this).
>>3091662
>When do I get blasters? I've heard someone say at the 2/3rd point of the game while another said at the 90% completion point of the game.
Once you have done all the council quests, exposed the baa traitor, gotten the 4 crystals for the Oracle, and stolen the cube from the Tomb of VARN you'll get access to the Oracle, where you will find blasters and learn the skill for them.
At that point the only thing left in the game is to free Archibald (and rescue Nicolai if you haven't done that) and go to Sweet Water to do the final (rather short) dungeon.
So 90% is the more accurate number.
>>3091783
Ah, okay. Thanks.
Why does the M&M community hate the monk so much in M&M7?
>Compared to the Knight
The knight is the biggest damage dealer in the end-game, okay. But isn't the monk better at tanking? And isn't the monk a better damage dealer for the first 70% of the game? They have similar HP and the knight takes less damage per hit while the monk takes less hits on average, right? And doesn't the monk have other utility skills like spells and disarm traps? Lastly, isn't the monk completely superior for solo runs or no-magic parties?
>Compared to the Thief
The thief and monk do similar damage. The thief obviously has tons of utility skills. But isn't the monk waaay better at tanking?
>>3092064
How does tanking in M&M7 work?
>>3092150
Is that sarcasm or a genuine question?
Either way, I need either you or someone else to explain to me how it works.
>>3092150
The only thing remotely similar to a "tank" you can have is a dedicated HP machine from whom you redistribute HP via Shared Life. You can't use a regular tank since there is no aggro system in the game.
>>3091662
>>3091665
Yeah, you only need one light user. Your party is really odd though; I don't know if you're the guy who said that four sorcs is the best possible party but it's definitely not true. Merely having a knight in your party opens up a lot of possibilities for doing things early, and there is serious diminishing returns on each additional elemental spellcaster.
If your objective is to beat the game as easily as possible and with as few (0) game overs as possible, the best party is probably two knights and some combination of spellcasters. Knights simply do far more damage than any other class than most of the game, and because in MM6 all spellcasters are fundamentally equal in their potential (outside of available skills and SP multiplier), you can actually play the game just fine with only one pure spellcaster. Intuitively, I would think that KKPS is the best combination, although KKCS has merits too and is what I usually use for MM6.
As for blasters, they come in at the very end of the game and sort of break the game's already very tenuous balance, so I would avoid getting them until you have to.
>>3092150
Tanking in these games is essentially just having the capacity to survive a situation, either to prevent an instant party wipe, or to allow your party to survive a long ordeal or travel on the laurels of a single character.
Since damage is distributed more or less evenly across your four characters, players have a tendency to undervalue the role of tanking, but the fact is that having a single character survive can allow you to access a lot of areas and do a lot of things well before a similarly leveled party would without a lot of saving.
>>3092064
Monks have significantly less HP, have an extremely low chance to hit for much of the game (a no magic party with monks would be torture), and can't really be used for much utility anyway since they are dependent on skill points for offense and defense.
>>3092432
Are you building your monk right? You should pump up unarmed then dodging before doing anything else. Also should be getting the first promotion as soon as humanly possible.
>>3092432
Monk is the hardest class to kill in the game.
>>3092753
Pretty much. I guess not getting hit at all (as a monk) can be better than taking 50% damage per hit (as a knight) because of enemies who deal status effects on hit. Knights are still better overall, but then again knights are better than any class not named cleric or sorcerer.
>God tier
Cleric, sorcerer, knight
>Top tier
Monk, paladin
>Everyone else
>Ranger tier
>>3092475
Yeah, but this wipes out all utility possibilities. Also, the Monk benefits scale more or less linearly whereas the bonuses that knights get are multiplied by the strength of their weapons. Because of the way dual-weilding works in these games, what you usually end up with is a big disparity in both chance to hit and damage until the endgame.
>>3092753
Knights have insane survivability. They will *always* outlive the rest of your party. The expert body skill regeneration makes them basically invincible as long as you don't do anything silly.
>>3093006
>They will *always* outlive the rest of your party
False. Enemies target the character with the highest armor class for last, which is why enemies seem to go for armorless casters first. Monks have a way higher armor class than knights. It's literally impossible for knights to come even close to a monk's optimal armor class. Then factor in the 50% dodging and yeah, monks have better survivability.
>>3093295
Don't different monsters have different preferred targets in M&M?
>>3093295
This is not really true and is an oversimplification of the targeting system in MM7. Targets can prefer races and classes and this dominates the target selection process for the most part. To see an extreme example of this, make a party of three human knights and one dwarf cleric and watch who gets hit.
You don't really need to make such a party to see this in action, however; any party with mostly humans will see the non-humans preferred in combat the majority of time.
The hypothetical AC of Monks is high but not really relevant. Knights will hit similar levels if using certain weapon types and will benefit far more from the peripheral bonuses.
>>3093391
I think KKKK is too lacking in utility to be fun - you will spend a lot of time running to town. KKKC is very viable but I think it's inferior to KKCS because sorcerers are acceptable in melee (expert dagger is great) and offer a huge amount of convenience skills. KMCS is okay too, as is KPCS.
>>3093665
>The hypothetical AC of Monks is high but not really relevant. Knights will hit similar levels if using certain weapon types and will benefit far more from the peripheral bonuses.
The monk can end up with about 50-100% more armor than knights. The goal of a monk is to get as many unarmed and dodging bonuses on equipment as possible. Seriously, load up a character/save editor and outfit your knight as much as you can to get the same armor as a monk. But if you do that your damage will suffer. No matter how high you get a knight's armor, a monk will STILL have a dodge percentage that is based on his unarmed, and a monk will typically have like 50-70 unarmed by the end which means he will dodge 50-70% of all incoming blows. Sure, the knight reduces damage by 50% but getting hit means he can get dealt status effects, while not getting hit at all means no status effects.
Anyway, nobody said monks are better than knights. Everyone knows that knights are a better character and the best physical class in the game. They deserve to be considering how short-changed they were in M&M6. Knights physical damage is unmatched and blow away all the other physical classes. However, we're specifically talking about survivability. If you outfit your knight for survivability, his damage can only suffer. Monks OTOH only need unarmed bonuses because it affects their offense and defense. Not to mention the ability to completely dodge blows, which the knight does not have.
Like I said, no one is arguing that the monk is better than the knight. So I have no idea why you're claiming knights have better survivability than monks when 1) monks have higher armor and 2) monks can dodge 50-70% of all physical attacks.
>>3093665
Thanks. I was >>3091670 btw, but reading this thread again I feel like I should print the map out and retry with a new party.
Very stupidly I went with a party of 4 archers because I liked the idea of machine gunning arrows at monsters and massively under-estimated the depth of the game and ended up struggling and quitting.
I've beaten Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 so know the important of party balance, not sure why I treated the game like an ARPG.
Thinking of going KKKC or SSSC based on the suggestions here. Any pointers on essential builds/ skills etc and where to get character class upgrades much appreciated.
>>3094650
Make everyone an air master. You can keep it at lvl 4.
Make one a light master, pump it up as much as you can.
Make everyone a dark master. Shrapmetal is the bomb
1 water master. Mandatory. 1 water expert. for 3 extra beacons.
fire master is pretty good thx to fire blast, but you'll replace with shrapmetal.
melee fighters are fine. With HoP and DotG and DoP
>>3094650
I think the game is most enjoyable if you use a balanced party. The Might and Magic games are hardly balanced, but one things the 6-8 games tend to assume is that you have one of both kinds of spellcaster. 7, in particular, throws a lot of status effects at you and basically requires water walk/jump at a lot of points in the midgame. It is pretty easily provable that the game is playable without one or both of the spellcasting schools, but it's arguably a lot more frustrating, especially if it's your first time playing. It means you need to spend a lot of time focusing on alchemy and shopping for scrolls, as well as making a lot more trips to town than you normally would (a process made more difficult because your party won't have town portal/beacon).
If you want a melee focus, try KKCS. If you REALLY want melee, you can do KKPS or KKCA too but I don't really think it's worth the trouble since clerics get chain and master mace, which does just fine, and having one dagger user in the party is always good.
>>3094413
I don't recall actually saying that knights have better survivability than monks, but I might have since I've made a lot of posts in this thread. In any case, I'll clarify my point: When I said that knights will outlive everyone else in your party, I meant that assuming your party contains either knights or monks but not both. The better survivability of the monk is irrelevant since the survivability of knights is so high and knights will outlive the rest of your party regardless (unless your party happens to also contain a monk, which the knight will probably still outlast for much of the game).
Also, I don't think I've ever finished the game with 50 points into a single skill (or even higher than 20, for that matter). I don't even know what level you'd have to be to accomplish such a thing but it'd have to be pretty damn high since it would take several levels just to increase the skill by one point.
>>3095634
Who ever said to get 50 plus skill points through leveling? That's ridiculous. Get unarmed to 20+. Don't waste any on staff, it's bugged (or maybe it just sucks). Hands of the Master +10 and bonuses from items with the "of the Fist" enchantment. The max modifier is 25.
>>3095881
Your last post said 50-70, dude
>>3095902
So? You said you've never gotten 50 points, and I explained how to get it.
>>3095908
You just gave a surefire method for getting to around 45 in the endgame with an enormous investment in one skill.
Anyway, the rest of my post is still true. Monks only do what you're claiming they do at the very end of the game and for the rest of the game knights do just as well, if not better, at tanking, hit a lot harder, and provide more utiity.
>>3095508
>1 water expert. for 3 extra beacons.
Also for emergency TP if your Water master dies in a dungeon.
>fire master is pretty good thx to fire blast, but you'll replace with shrapmetal.
Fire mostly shines early game thanks to Ring of Fire and Fireball. Also recasting Haste instead of recasting HoP every hour saves a lot of spell points.
>>3095634
Not getting Hands of the Master and a +25 unarmed item is missing out on +70 damage and +35% dodging. Just like the knight player is planning on getting Yoruba/Wallace/etc and a +25 armsmaster bonus item, it's only fair for a monk to get the things I mentioned. It's completely unfair to compare a knight with his best shit but then not optimizing the monk. You gotta get hands of the master, +25 unarmed, +25 armsmaster (adds attack not damage), +25 dodging items. Also, the knight doesn't really outdamage the monk the entire game if you have someone to cast haste all the time. You have to set it to turnbased to see how many more hits the monk is actually getting in than a knight. They add up. It's once the knight gets GM armsmaster then his damage becomes unmatched. But then again the monk gets GM unarmed and becomes a dodging machine.
>>3095938
Nope.
It goes like this:
>On dealing damage
Beginning of the game: Slightly favors monks who should be unarmored and will attack fast as hell, especially with haste.
Up to around the 50-60% point of the game: The game changer is mastery in unarmed which means with just a +25 bonus item to unarmed you'll do 50 more damage. Also, monks still attack way faster than knights.
After the 60% point of the game: It's once the knight gets GM armsmaster that he becomes a damage monster. It's GM armsmaster that brings his damage to the next level, just like it's master unarmed that puts monks ahead of knights until GM armsmaster comes along.
When it comes to defense, it's the exact opposite. Knights start with better defense thanks to more hp, but monks end up with better defense thanks to dodging and all the defense skills working together.
Hareck's Leather, Hands of the Master, +25 unarmed, +25 dodge will bring the monk to 207 armor. Find me just one equipment combination for the knight that comes even close to that. Probably not even worth it unless you want to sacrifice tons of damage.
>>3095965
Just checked. There is no +shield skill item modifier in the game. Otherwise, a +25 shield bonus from an item would've meant 50 more armor (which is STILL not enough to reach 207), but it doesn't exist. So even with Kelebrium, the artifact shield, the knight doesn't come close to the monk, even in a purely defensive knight build.
>>3095943
I'm specifically comparing unoptimized characters because Might and Magic 7 has a very short and easy endgame so nobody should take it into consideration when making a party. Knights get gratuitous bonuses to hit and damage from equipment that monks simply dont; they are entirely reliant on skills for most of the game and it's only after most of the game is over that the equipment you're referring to is relevant. Even GM unarmed isn't available until around the middle of the game.
>>3096028
Do you realize that it's GM armsmaster that makes knights outdamage monks? Refer to >>3095965
Monks are easy to build. Just pump up unarmed and then dodging. Get promotions as soon as possible because it's unarmed mastery that matters most, not unarmed grandmaster. Never wear leather until you've GMed dodging, because it'll slow your attacks. Never put a single point into or use staves. Don't bother with armsmaster until you've taken care of unarmed and dodge because armsmaster doesn't add damage, to either fists or staves. The monk attacks fast as fuck and does comparable or slightly better damage than the knight until the monk gets unarmed mastery from which he outdamages knights until the knight gets GM armsmaster.
So that's the first half of the game in which the monk can do better damage, mainly due to ridiculous attack speed and unarmed mastery.
>>3096061
Knights don't need GM arms to do more damage than a comparable monk. Master sword or spear is enough at least until Grey dies.
I never use turn based mode. If I did, I might be more sympathetic to your arguments.
>>3096381
Also by monk what are you talking about? there is no monk class in 6.
>>3096381
FUCK HEALING
>>3096381
Knights are a better class overall and you'll probably rip through the game with that many knights though you should replace 1 knight for a cleric/sorc for Light GM for the delicious buffs. However, only 1 knight is gonna get the artifacts Yoruba and Wallace, so only 1 knight will be optimal while the rest won't be. Wallace is kinda necessary to maximize a knight's damage.
BTW the only reason I'm defending monks is because a lot of people on the internet, I've noticed, seem to be under the impression that monks are a completely pointless class that is outclassed by knights in every single aspect of the game, which is completely untrue. Monks are a great class but obviously not the best.
Those players are most likely building their monks wrong or don't understand the weapon recovery mechanics. Monks have way better weapon recovery than knights for the first half of the game until knights get GM armsmaster. This is based on the game mechanics, not opinion. Monks start off with 60 weapon recovery because they're unarmed and won't use armor. A knight using a sword is gonna have 90 recovery, or 80 recovery if using a spear. Then add armor and that recovery will go up by 10/20/30. 30 is the lowest you can get with a melee weapon. Only bows and blasters can reach 0. A monk can reach that cap of 30 faster than anyone else in the game (Remember to get 10 points in armsmaster). Monks will be attacking quicker (i.e. more attacks per round) sooner than any other class in the game. That's pretty sweet. But it gets even better once you get unarmed mastery because that's when the good damage kicks in too.
>>3096381
Knights will probably be a bitch to gear, but has potential to eat through the early game if you kill the dragon on Emerald Isle and get some fatty loots before you complete the tutorial.
When you mean "out of the 6 classes" do you mean in M&M6? Because 7 has more than 6 classes.
>>3096429
There is no monk class in 6, I don't understand, are you talking about 7 instead?
>>3096429
It's thanks to GM armsmaster and especially thanks to the artifact sword Wallace, which gives +10 armsmaster (and stacks with other +25 armsmaster bonuses) that knights' weapon recovery can go down to 30. Before getting weapon recovery down to 30, knights may do a bit more damage per hit, but monks will be attacking MORE frequently, which means greater DPS, especially once you get unarmed mastery which is gotten much sooner than GM armsmaster. Like I said before, once the knight starts outdamaging monks in terms of DPS, that's when monks start outlasting knights in terms of defense. Yeah, the knight is still great at defense, but guess what, monks are still pretty good at offense too, provided that you outfit him with +unarmed and dodge bonuses, which is only fair if you're gonna get the best shit for your knight.
When built right, monks should do more DPS than knights for the first half of the game.
Get unarmed mastery as soon as humanly possible. Get +unarmed bonuses from items soon, that's gonna be the difference between a great monk and a mediocre one. Don't wear leather until you get GM dodge. It'll hurt your weapon recovery speed. Don't put a single point into staff, it's a waste. Don't use staff, it has shitty weapon recovery. Get about 10 points in armsmaster to reduce your weapon recovery by 10. The speed stat reduces recovery too. If you really must use hammerhands and have a shitload of spare skill points, then put about 10 points in body then put on a ring of body magic. that'll give you 15 more damage to each attack. Turn on turn-based and you'll see that monks are getting like 1-2 more attacks per turn than knights for the first half of the game.
>>3096554
Job upgrades in 6:
Knight - 1st is literally just talk to a guy down the road from the questgiver and return, 2nd is relatively high level.
Archer - 1st is in a faroff place, but can be bumrushed with some luck and savescumming at a low level, 2nd is just visit all towns.
Paladin - 1st is rescue a damsel (easier than the archer quest), 2nd is kill a dragon (depends on how much you want to cheese, can be done at level 1 with a lot of patience)
Cleric - 1st is repair the temple in Free Haven (easy), 2nd is get a chalice for the temple (also easy)
Sorcerer - 1st is to drink from a certain fountain, and there are a fuckload of fountains in the world. 2nd is a long and boring dungeon with easy enemies and confusing layout
Druid is time-based, so you need to check the calendar and plan it out, you can't just look at the quest log and go "alright, this one's next, let's wait 3 months for the vernal equinox before starting".
Sorcerer and cleric are easiest to do full promotion, knight is the easiest to reach rank 2 and the hardest to reach rank 3. Archer's 1st promotion is harder than the 2nd.
>>3096448
They get a lot more turns but connect a lot less, especially pre-Grey (compare master sword w/ crappy gear to master unarmed). But really, attack speed just matters a whole lot more in turn-based than it does in real-time since you spend far less time totally engaged in melee.
>>3096554
>>3096381
Class choice tends to matter quite a bit less in Might and Magic 6 since MM6 lets any character who can learn a skill become a master in that skill. To that end, a staggering amount of party combinations are possible and, indeed, viable. I posted some suggestions above:
>>3095634
I made those suggestions for MM7, but they're just as true for 6. I'll reiterate that I really think that no one playing the game for the first time should create a party that doesn't have at least one of each kind of spellcaster. The game is very beatable with fringe parties that don't have one of each kind but there are so many utility skills that will be closed off to you that you will spend a LOT of time running to and from town and/or shopping for essential scrolls. It's just not fun.
The prototypical MM6 party is KxCS, where x is usually Knight, Paladin or Archer (in decreasing order of goodness). KPCS is probably the best possible party for newcomers because it does very well in the beginning, but KKCS is better for the later game. If you want a melee focus, KKAC (or even KAAC) works pretty well. KKPS is even more melee-focused but will have a hard time in the midgame. Caster-oriented parties, like KCSS and even CCSS, are notably weaker than parties with knights but they can certainly finish the game.
Might and Magic 6 is really flexible. Just try to have one of each caster type as it really cuts down on the tedium.
>>3096721
Thanks. So in MM6 KKCS is a better all round party than SSSC?
>>3096750
It all depends on how much of the combat you want to be melee and how much you want it to be ranged spells.
KKCS will let you actually use the gear you find and actually lets you experience the combat.
SSSC is a glass cannon that marches 10 feet forward, unleashes a billion spells to clear the room, then sets a beacon and teleports back to town for refreshments before continuing.
>>3096768
I want something with absolutely maximum durability, staying away from town for very large durations if possible.
>>3096794
Then you want KKCS, KPCS, or KACS.
The early game is where you will most frequently have to return to town. This is unavoidable and it doesn't matter too much what classes you pick; you simply don't have the spells and spell points to cure all of the status effects that you'll get.
In the midgame, parties with some physical brawn and a healer can last a long time without going to town, and once you get the full range of spells you'll find yourself only going back for relatively extreme reasons. If you have a lot of magic-users, however, you will be limited by SP and a party like SSSC is going to run out pretty damn quickly.
In the endgame, physical parties almost never have to go home but magic parties are still constrained by SP.
The strength of KKCS is that it has the best damage-dealing capabilities of any of the three options and is very tanky. KPCS has a secondary healer, which is very handy, especially if your cleric dies, but is somewhat less capable in the damage department. KACS is for people who like elemental magic.
>>3096721
>They get a lot more turns but connect a lot less
Absolutely not true, especially once you get unarmed mastery, and monks should get points in armsmaster to increase attack and reduce weapon recovery, even if it doesn't increase their damage. It's only when knights get GM armsmaster that they become more accurate than monks. You can test it out with mm7che. So the monk has more accuracy for the first half of the game.
>>3096898
>especially if your cleric dies,
Or gets cursed. Tremendously helpful in the mire of the damned.
What's so bad about druids? The lack of strong combat skills and the higher magic schools?
>>3096898
Ok, thanks for the thoughtful feedback. Presumably SSSC is the optimal class for pure damage output, but as you said, very glass cannony with limited ammo...
>>3096898
Ahh, sorry for double post. What mods can I use to improve quality of life with this game? Any way I can play with an xbox controller? (super casual i know but i have a broken leg and basically am spending a lot of time on the couch.)
>>3097147
Just play the game man, the difference is pretty apparent. The last party I played through MM7 with was KMCS.
>>3097615
Honestly, I think druids are fine. The fact that they don't get dark/light doesn't mean too much as long as you have one character that does, and dagger is pretty potent for most of the game. MM6 is a lot friendlier to hybrid classes than pretty much any other game in the series so there's no reason you can't use druids. I could see something like KKCD or KKDS working well.
>>3097742
>>3097748
It's a bit situational and it depends on how you play the game. The merits of SSSC are... obvious, but as I mentioned above there's serious diminishing returns on the benefit for having each additional spellcaster. That party will clean house in the endgame but will spend a lot of the first half dying or dead.
Unfortunately, I don't have an answer to your second question outside of suggesting xpadder. You need the mouse to navigate the interface at times but I could see much of the game being playable with a gamepad.
>>3098020
>MM6 is a lot friendlier to hybrid classes than pretty much any other game in the series
Paladins, Archers and Rangers are fairly strong in 3-5, they just don't get as many MP.
Ninjas in 2-5 are also better than robbers.
Having beaten most of the games in the series, I've got to say that maybe the worst characteristic of the series is the enemies that just break your stuff. It's such a pain, even in the later entries where you can fix it yourself.
>>3100515
Yeah, that's annoying.
mm6 equipment don't have a durability value or anything. Enemies simply have attacks that break specific pieces of equipment.
Yeah, so...
Ran a bunch of tests comparing knights and monks.
Results:
1) Monks do better damage than knights (because monks have much lower recovery time) until knights get grandmaster armsmaster. So monks do better damage for the first half of the game by about 20-30%. The most important thing for monks is getting expert unarmed immediately after the tutorial island, then master unarmed, which requires no promotions. But knights NEED to get 2 promotions to get grandmaster armsmaster, which is absolutely necessary to do more damage than monks. Furthermore, to really outdamage monks you need to get the ultimate equipment, such as dual-wielding Wallace and Charele then they outdamage monks by about 50% or more.
Game progression:
First half: Monks do more damage
Second half: Knights do more damage
2) It's easier to get the best shit for monks than it is for knights. Like 100x easier. You can get +25 unarmed and +25 dodge rings from evil eye corpses. EASILY. But to get all of Yoruba, Wallace, Charele in one game without reloading/relooting a couple thousand times? Hah, yeah right. It's easier to get an optimal monk than it is to get an optimal knight. That's a big advantage.
3) Knights have slightly better durability (e.g. survivability) for the first half of the game. But once monks get grandmaster unarmed, the monk has better survivability.
Keep in mind: The knight's grandmaster plate reduces damage from PHYSICAL ONLY. That means, no reduction from dragons, evil eyes, droids, titans, warlocks, elementals, liches, and much more. So the physical damage reduction is barely useful in the second half of the game. That's why against them, dodging is so good and high armor is good too.
>>3102659
In the second half of the game, monks can get about 100 or more armor class than knights no matter how well you equip knights, and more importantly can dodge attacks. 20 points in unarmed, 10 from hands of the master, 25 from a ring = 55% chance to dodge all attacks. Not just melee attacks, but all attacks (attacks, not spells). So that includes dragon projectiles, titan projectiles, lich projectiles, evil eye projectiles, etc. Knights get no reduction against any of those, but monks dodge 55% of the time.
TEST IT OUT YOURSELF.
Outfit a knight and monk as best you can with mm7che. Go to the dragon on emerald island, stand right next to the dragon. Make the circumstances identical. Make 2 different save states. In one, use mm7che to kill off the knight and give full health to the monk. Do the opposite for the other save state. Load each save game, and (1) time how long it takes the character to die, and (2) take note of how often the character dodges. I did the testing multiple times, and monks last about 50% longer, and monks really do have a 55% dodging ratio, but can go much higher. For example, in one result, the monk got hit 10 times and dodged 16 times against the dragon before dying. Knights have like a 10-15% dodging ratio against the dragon, and die much quicker.
Result in the second half of the game:
Monks have much better survivability when facing the actual tough enemies of the game.
Knights only have better survivability when INTENTIONALLY putting yourself in the center of a massive mob of weak physical-attacking enemies (which is stupid, and shouldn't even be an issue by that point in the game). Grandmaster plate is OVERRATED based on my actual testing results, and barely does anything against most mid to high level enemies. Furthermore, the high-level monsters who have physical attacks only have melee attacks, so... they're pushovers.
>>3102668
Also, enemies need to actually hit you for status effects (like Break Armor) to happen (at least in the case of dragons), so if you dodge attacks, you won't be affected.
My tests optimized each class in stats, level, equipment, skills, everything. Monk: +25 unarmed ring, +25 dodge ring, +25 armsmaster ring, hands, harreck (or any high level leather will do), etc. Knight: +25 armsmaster ring, wallace, charele, yoruba, etc. Level 50. 10 points in ALL relevant skills with the highest training possible. Equal stats at 100, grandmaster bodybuilding, etc. I'll give you more details if you want, but there's no point, because even if you did the tests yourself using your proposed optimizations, you'd get the same results. I didn't bother using hammerhands, although if you get 10 points in body magic and a ring of Body Magic, then you can add 15 points of body damage.
Offense:
Monk: Better during first half, but still great in second half. Much easier to optimize. Can reach optimal damage much sooner.
Knight: Better during second half, but still good in first half. Much harder to optimize. Can reach optimal damage only with cheesing the save/looting system.
Defense:
Monk: Better during second half, but still good in first half. Absolute best in the game at surviving against mid to high level monsters because of UNIQUE ability to dodge both melee and ranged attacks regardless of attack type (i.e. physical, fire, air, water, energy, dark, etc).
Knight: Better during first half, but still great in second half. During second half, only better than monk at surviving against low level monsters (which should never be an issue regardless of class, at that point in the game).
Utility:
Monk: Can serve as a backup healer if light side. Can disarm any trap (with a good steal ring) if dark side if you don't have a thief. But admittedly, healing and disarming aren't an issue in the second half of the game.
Knight: Can repair anything. Very useful.
>>3102668
As for thieves? In terms of offense, they're stable throughout the game and are similar to monks, although they fall behind once a monk gets a +25 unarmed ring, and then catch up once the thief gets Wallace and a badass dagger. Much easier to get a +25 unarmed ring (kill a single Evil Eye and do a few minutes of reloading on its corpse). But in terms of defense, they're utterly pathetic and don't come anywhere close to knights or monks. Based on my results against a red dragon, if monks last about 1:20, then knights last about 0:50, then thieves last about 0:30.
http://www.angelfire.com/id/mmvii/monsters.html
Monster damage type, and loot drops information.
Okay, checked that again, and I admit that grandmaster plate can be useful in the last 5% of the game because devils do physical ranged damage. But, SERIOUSLY, at that point in the game, your class, equipment, etc are all irrelevant because you can just use blasters + haste (I'm talking about blasters with a recovery speed of ZERO, which was an intentional game design by NWC, not 5 which was modified in Grayface's patch and can be changed back to ZERO which the original developers intended) to wipe out everything without breaking a sweat.
>>3102672
The belief that monks only come into their own at the very end game is completely false. An opinion made by people who barely even used a monk and certainly don't know how to outfit one or use one. As I explained above, monks are useful throughout the game and at every point in the game is better than knights at something (first half: better at offense. second half: better at defense). Monks are great during the entire game. Just don't do dumb things like wear leather armor (until you've grandmastered dodge), or waste points in staves, or for some dumb reason don't get Expert unarmed as soon as you get off the tutorial island (it takes ONE fucking minute to get expert unarmed once you're off the tutorial island), and for another dumb reason ignore getting master unarmed until the end game (and complain that monks do shitty damage), despite the fact that Master unarmed does NOT need a single fucking promotion to get.
>>3102691
I've never disagreed with your assertions regarding endgame monks; I just think that the endgame is unimportant since you play 90 percent of the way through the game with no artifacts, let alone several for one class. I'm currently playing through MM7 (pic related) and at this point I have no artifacts and I am more than halfway through the game.
However, I continue to disagree with the notion that monks do more damage for the first half of the game since they miss a lot and recovery can't be mapped directly to damage like it can in other games since you spend a lot of time out of melee range and you probably wouldn't go into melee range simply because one of your four characters has recovered -- unless you mostly use turn-based, a point which I mentioned above as probably being a significant factor in why our interpretations of the results is different.
I also disagree that there's much point in making a character with more survivability than a knight since it's already so high that you'll probably never die anyway. In the party above, I have a baa cloak and the villain's sword on my knight and she hasn't died once.
...you guys know way too much about this game than could be healthy...
>>3102896
Might and Magic 6-8 are all fairly simple games mechanically and they're also quite similar, so the familiarity overlaps. 6 and 7 are also probably around 100 hours, so just playing through them once gets you pretty comfortable with how everything works.
>>3102828
> I just think that the endgame is unimportant since you play 90 percent of the way through the game with no artifacts
Yes, and the lack of artifacts doesn't affect monks as much as weapon users. Knights and thieves are more dependent on artifacts in order to optimize their damage. The monk is all about getting good rings, and you can get the best rings in the game from Evil Eye corpses which there are plenty of. Each evil eye corpse has a 30% chance of dropping a max level (6) ring. Knights and thieves benefit from an armsmaster ring, but the monk benefits from armsmaster, unarmed, and dodge. Furthermore, the monk's biggest improvement comes from upgrading his unarmed, which you can get to expert the minute you step off tutorial island, and can master without getting a single class promotion.
Reasons why monks shouldn't have bad attack or damage in the early game:
Step 1) Get expert unarmed the minute you get off tutorial island. That adds to your damage. This is basically the real starting point of the game. So already you'll be getting a steady damage boost as you boost it up to 10 (then up to around 20 once you get 10 in all the other relevant skills)
Step 2) Get master unarmed without having to get a single class promotion. That doubles your attack and doubles your damage from unarmed points. This is huge. You should now be outdamaging knights and thieves and have better armor than them too.
Step 3) Get high level rings for up to +25 unarmed from Evil Eyes with a bit of loot reloading.
>>3103073
I have proved many times that you should not be having trouble with the monk's attack or damage in the first half of the game by giving reasons. But you continue to claim that monks have poor attack without providing any reasons except what is probably your own experiential evidence (i.e. "they just do"). Think of it this way, everyone knows how to build up good weapon users, just find good weapons and bump up weapon skills and armsmaster. But not many people know how to build up good monks. Well, the answer lies in boosting skills by getting good rings and getting master unarmed, because the monk is skills-based while others are more equipment-based. Good rings are gotten easier and sooner than your Wallaces and Chareles. Players go out of their way to get good equipment because knights need to find good weapons, so why is it so different or unconventional for monks having to find good rings to improve their unarmed?
Monks do NOT have a problem with damage or attack at any point in the game. That's blatantly false. I listed all my reasons why it is so in my previous posts. You've yet to provide a single proof why monks have bad attack and damage.
Lastly, many of my points about the monk are also relevant for real-time mode, although the monk's advantages are much more evident in turn-based mode. In real-time mode, when you're running, everyone's weapon recovery time is doubled. So if you're doing jab-and-move type tactics, then weapon recovery is almost pointless because you're run away before getting hit most of the time. But even then, the monk outdamages knights and thieves during the long period of game starting from when monks get master unarmed until knights get grandmaster armsmaster (which requires 2 class promotions). But by then, monks get superior survivability. So it's a good tradeoff.
>>3103073
>early game
By "early game" I'm obviously talking about the first half of the game, not the first 5-10%.
>>3103076
I'm currently doing the Pit dungeons with the party I linked. I have almost no good rings, and basically none that would improve a monk's chance to hit (except for some armsmaster gear which would work better on a knight). The fact is that it's very easy to go through a lot of the game without getting any good rings.
It is, however, impossible to go through much of the game without getting a weapon with a competitive attack modifier.
>>3103203
I meant to add that I consider reloading loot cheating, so there you go.
>>3103264
Right. That's why your monks have a high chance to hit - because you use an exploit that allows you to get much better gear than normal.
If you don't reroll bodies until you get what you want from them you will find that what you get from them is usually garbage.
>>3103278
Right. Enjoy your ironman games with no reloading. you are doing ironman games, right?
>>3103264
>Okay, but I don't.
Do you consider it cheating to reload for multiple loot on the same corpse?
>>3103283
I am actually a bit in disbelief that I wasted like ten posts debating someone who rerolls loot. The game has a whole system of drop odds that you're ignoring. Do you get an artifact from every blood titan?
I understand that the line between cheating and not cheating is blurry. Indeed, I use jump in a lot of places where the designers intended for you to do otherwise. But outright removing drop odds from the equation alters the game so drastically that it is pretty clearly cheating to me, and, I think, most of the people who play these games. At the very least it makes the game significantly easier and destroys the credibility of your previous posts in the context of how most people will play the game.
I don't ironman because I play after game overs.
>>3103596
This is what he is currently arguing is not cheating.
>>3102691
>Master unarmed does NOT need a single fucking promotion to get.
You need Cleric promotion to get master unarmed on monk.
>>3103829
>This is what he is currently arguing is not cheating.
I'm not talking about just rerolling the loot, I'm talking about getting infinite loot from a single corpse by reloading until it doesn't despawn after looting and just looting it over and over.
>>3088409
the game got reviews of around 30 percent and was widely derided for being abysmal. it is a terrible game
>>3104002
>reviews of around 30 percent and was widely derided for being abysmal
>Gamespot - 9.1/10
>IGN - 9.0/10
>RPGFan - 90%
The fuck you smoked son?
>>3103949
Yeah, so basically trivializing the loot system entirely, rendering your opinions on class balance moot.
>>3103596
Nope, I don't multi-loot.
>>3103829
Yeah, no. I don't multi-loot. You do know the difference, right? Anyway, we're talking about Might & Magic here, a series that is infamous for power-gaming. If you're going to be a lily-white purist and impose self-made rules on yourself, then that's completely up to you and however you want to play, but don't tell me how I should play the game. This isn't a regulated sport or competition, and furthermore it's quite common for Might & Magic players to do this.
>>3104139
No, it doesn't. Like I said, are you imposing ironman rules on yourself with no reloading involved? Oh, that's right. You aren't.
>>3104724
Do you see no difference between reloading when your party got wiped out and reloading because you didn't like the loot in a single chest?
>>3104886
Then don't fucking do it. Problem solved.
>>3104724
Yes, there is no ambiguity.
One exploit involves reloading the game after looting to get a different result, the other is getting unlimited loot from one corpse.
You do the first one and somehow don't think that it's cheating, as if the game doesn't have drop tables for a reason. Again, it's fine if you want to make the game drastically easier for yourself, but at least call it what it is.
>>3088409
So in MM6, I'm considering going a KKKP or SSSC party, basically two ends of the spectrum.
What skills should I go for and more importantly, how should I spec my character attributes to begin with?
>>3105337
>SSSC
The cleric is pointless. All self magic is mediocre actually. You minus well just add another sorc.
>>3105341
Pimp. All right, so I'm rolling a quad sorc pain train, aka 'wall of terror'. What are my options (also please confirm it's basically the best class).
>>3105346
>also please confirm it's basically the best class
confirmed
Important stuff: Get 1 level of bow for everyone as soon as possible. Like in the first 5 minutes of the game. Start game -> go to tavern -> give letter to cloaked guy -> receive gold -> take hayride to castle -> talk to old guy in castle -> receive gold -> go down the hill -> get membership from pirate -> go next door and train bow for everyone -> go next door and buy bows for everyone. There, that took care of the most important thing in the game. Getting a bow for everyone.
Now as for skills:
bow: 1 level is fine for most of the game in a 4 sorc team
air magic: get for everyone. level 4 and master for everyone. get sparks for everyone as soon as possible. this will be your main weapon in dungeons. use like a shotgun upclose and personal. if you don't like fire for some reason you can pump up air magic to 10+ for higher Sparks and Starburst damage. But i like to keep air at level 4 for everyone.
earth: no need at all.
water: get to level 12 and master for one person as soon as possible for beacons and town portal. Your choice if you want another water user, but one is fine.
fire: optional, but very good for dungeons. fire blast (great shotgun spell), ring of fire (goes through walls, hits enemies above and below), incinerate (spammable and wipe out rooms of 50+ enemies). the thing is that once you get dark magic, fire magic becomes less useful, but still. great to have. i like to get 1-2 fire masters.
light: get one guy to master it and put as many points as you can. like 15-20. use hour of power, day of the gods.
dark: get everyone to master it, get everyone to at least 10 points for shrapmetal. shrapmetal is the best damage spell in the game. use it like a close-combat shotgun. get 1 sorc to 15+ points for a longer day of protection.
armor: not necessary
dagger: get master eventually though not necessary.
perception: must get 1 guy to expert for a dungeon
Hire a scholar.
>>3105346
Knights are still probably the best class overall.
The main reason to do SSSC and not SSSS is that it's annoying as shit to run back to town every time someone gets diseased, paralyzed or killed. You've been warned.
>>3105346
meditation: master for everyone
merchant: 1 level for everyone for convenience
disarm trap: master for 1 guy
repair items: master for 1 guy
lemme give you an example party
>member #1:
disarm: 7p master
bow: 1p
air magic: 4p master
fire magic: 12p master
dark magic: 10p master. dump points if you want more shrapmetal damage
>member #2:
repair: 7p master
bow: 1p
air magic: 4p master
fire magic: 12p master
dark magic: 10p master. dump points if "" "" ""
>member #3
perception: 4p expert
bow: 1p
air magic: 4p master
light magic: 15p+ master
dark: 10p master. dump points if " """ ""
>member #4
water: 12p master
air magic: 4p master
dark magic: 15p+ master
meditation: master for everyone
bow: eventually master, if you want. same with daggers.
leather: master if you want, when you have free points
bodybuilding: master if you want, with free points
blaster: master for everyone once you get them and minus well dump all your extra points in it
Important things:
If you're playing without the GrayFace patch, keep in mind the following:
-If you have Always Run turned on, then your attacks and magic casting will be twice as slow. Turn it off when attacking (capslock)
-dual wielding will make your attacks slower. so don't dual wield. not worth it.
i know i'm missing some other things but can't think of them at the moment. will add them when they come up
>>3105517
is this your first mm6 runthrough? if so, a SSSS or even SSSC is going full retard.
>>3105558
he asked for a ssss build. let him play what he wants
>>3105558
Yep. I can't over-emphasize how much of a bad idea this is for your first playthrough.
A first playthrough should at minimum include one of both kind of casters. If you don't want to use any tanky classes for some reason then sure, but even that's not a great idea.
>>3105558
>if so, a SSSS or even SSSC is going full retard.
>>3105596
>A first playthrough should at minimum include one of both kind of casters
Look guys, I'm going to be flying around enroth with a god dam 4-barrelled fireball minigun. I'll be fine.
What kind of stats should I make my characters? Thinking pic related
>>3106663
No brakes
>>3106663
You'll be fine until one of your characters gets diseased or dies and you can't rest any more. I'm just saying, you're going to be making billions of trips to town until you get light magic and probably still quite a few after that.
Why do your sorcerers have personality?
>>3106878
>Why do your sorcerers have personality?
So, lose personality and put the points in what then?
What skills should I be taking too?
>You'll be fine until one of your characters gets diseased or dies
Well I'll have to make sure that doesn't happen then by introducing every monster to a continuous hail of fireballs.
>>3091398
7 is so much more polished. character progression both in terms of skill ranks, itemization and difficulty curve all feels way better. Quests often involve invisibility or other stealth elements. Potions aren't total shit. It's just way better.
>>3107231
>It's just way better.
MM6 metacritic user review 8.8
MM7 metacritic user review 5.0
Let's just say you're in the minority with that opinion.
>>3107272
the reviews would look that way for whichever game came out first.
If you're playing them for the first time, you don't suffer that perspective.
>>3107390
>the reviews would look that way for whichever game came out first.
Maybe for a new franchise and a sequel. For the 6th and 7th game in the series...fuck are you talking about son?
Besides, we're talking about 38 percentage point difference...
Get your head out of your ass pal!
Aren't paladins just better knights in mm6? With no grandmaster caps, no armsmaster, etc, can't paladins level every single skill nights can? Don't knights just get a small number of hitpoints more per level?
>>3107507
It's quite a bit of HP less. And the class upgrades widen that gap.
You can also leave the knight constantly insane for extra strength at no costs.
Having no need to spend skill points into magic skills may also be considered a plus.
>>3107406
>d look that way for whichever game came out first.
>Maybe for a new franchise and a sequel. For the 6th and 7th game in the series...fuck are you talking about son?
the primary complaint most reviewers had was that they forgave 6 feeling so dated when it came out, but that they thought nwc were resting on their laurels releasing yet another game in the same janky engine.
>>3107406
>>3107272
Why are we going on metacritic scores here? Fans of the franchise often point to Worlds, 6 or 7 as the best in the franchise; any of those three answers are hardly unusual.
Having said that, I prefer 6. I think the efforts to make the game more linear were a net negative and the attempts to balance things were a mixed bag.
>>3108061
7 is garbage
>>3108087
Would you mind elaborating?
I rank them like this:
6 > 4 = 7 > 5 = 3 > 2 > 1 > 9
Haven't played 10.
>>3108143
I forgot 8. I rank it with 3 and 5.
>>3108143
Waht's to explain? 7 just pplain sucks
>>3108165
I think if you like 6 then it's hard not to like 7 since the changes are hardly drastic. Yeah, class differences are more pronounced and the beginning of the game is more linear but it's small potatoes compared to the overwhelming similarities.
It has been months since you made your first thread before starting the game, OP. You still haven't finished it?
Also what's with all the people needing tips and explanations? I certainly wouldn't have enjoyed the game as much as I did if I didn't go in blind.
>>3106663
I hope you don't give the same portrait for everyone.
>>3108175
7 has tiny dungeons and a smaller disjointed world.
6 has massive dungeons and a well-designed interconnected world.
>>3108202
I don't really think this is true. In both cases the world becomes far less seamless and relevant towards the end of the game; that's just the nature of having fast travel in a game that it takes a long time to travel the manual way.
As for the dungeon size, 7's last two dungeons are surely a bit on the small size but I don't think the average is really any different.
In my books, 7 gets points for having less blaster gameplay.
>>3088409
what is a good version to introduce me to the series on one of the following emulators?
i have nes, snes, genesis, dosbox
>>3110607
World of Xeen
>>3110762
ty goodsir
>>3110562
>I don't really think this is true. In both cases the world becomes far less seamless and relevant towards the end of the game; that's just the nature of having fast travel in a game that it takes a long time to travel the manual way.
No, mm6 has a well-designed interconnected seamless world. That's a fucking fact. mm7 doesn't even have a world map like pic-related because the geography isn't interconnected
>As for the dungeon size, 7's last two dungeons are surely a bit on the small size but I don't think the average is really any different.
Dude, did you even play mm6? The first goblin dungeon is bigger than any dungeon in part 7. mm6 has some massive beautifully-made dungeons. 7's dungeons are tiny and linear.
>In my books, 7 gets points for having less blaster gameplay.
You get blasters in 6 just in time for one dungeon, so you're wrong. and to get the good dungeons in 6 you have to go through terminators that can instakill you.
mm6 is one of the greatest rpgs ever made. mm7 is just average.
>>3110805
>and to get the good dungeons
i mean the blaster rifles
>>3110562
I agree completely when the guy says that 7's dungeons are way smaller than 6's.
>>3110562
>As for the dungeon size, 7's last two dungeons are surely a bit on the small size but I don't think the average is really any different.
> but I don't think the average is really any different.
Whoa there. Did you even play part 6?
>>3110772
6 works without an emulator and I would recommend it over Xeen, but only slightly; both are good starting points.
>>3110805
>That's a fucking fact.
Why do you argue like this is some life or death shit? We're having a discussion about videogames.
MM7 could have a similar map; it just wouldn't be a grid. The total area being less of a rectangle has little effect on gameplay.
MM7 has plenty of dungeons larger than Goblinwatch. Maps of these are freely available on the internet. But why are we assessing them based on size, anyway? 8's are the biggest on average but they're certainly not the best.
You don't ever need the blasters in 7 and the two dungeons you have them for are shorter than the one in 6.
I agree that MM6 is one of the best games ever made but that MM7 is only slightly worse. I actually somewhat agree with your complaint about the world not being as integrated as MM6's but it only really affects the portion of the game before you get fast travel and after you are strong enough to not be killed by a stiff breeze. The midgame, which constitutes the vast majority of both games, is of roughly equal quality; it is early and late in which MM6 is stronger than 7.
>>3111006
> mm8 dungeons are the biggest on average
what the fuck are you talking about? have you ever even played these games?
>>3111006
>MM7 has plenty of dungeons larger than Goblinwatch. Maps of these are freely available on the internet. But why are we assessing them based on size, anyway? 8's are the biggest on average but they're certainly not the best.
Dude, mm6 dungeons are the biggest AND the best-designed.
Also, you don't need blasters in 6 either, so I don't know what your point is.
>well-designed interconnected world
>No coach from blackshire to kriegspire
literally unplayable
>>3110607
just play 7. by far the most user friendly, arguably the best. it's windows compatible anyway.
>>3111060
Hm, I think I'll play 6.
>>3111074
obvious troll is obvious
>>3111025
>>3111041
I've played every game in the series and beaten 3-8. Granted, it's been about five years since I last beat 6 and my memory is far from perfect, but I finished a playthrough of 7 only a few hours ago and I'm pretty fresh on it.
It is my feeling that the quality of 7's dungeons were in line for a series not exactly known for environmental complexity.
>>3111041
>you don't need blasters in 6 either,
Have fun in the first room in the Hive then.
>>3111343
>Granted, it's been about five years since I last beat 6 and my memory is far from perfect
Oh, Okay, That Explains A Lot.
>>3112672
>Git gud.
>100 Devil Captains and Devil Kings in one huge cluster
Yeah, I'll just git gud enough to melee that shit. Maybe soften them up first with a dozen arrows.
>>3113370
>melee them
Why?
>>3113482
What would you do instead?
Just Shrap two, leave, refill mana, come back then repeat 50 times?
>>3113506
>out of mana after 2 shrapmetals
You're playing wrong, buddy.
>>3113506
yeah that's literally the way people play mm6. Even with really intelligent levelling and itemization, i've never had more than 500 or 600 mana. Playing casters, which are arguably the strongest in mm6, you get maybe 10 or 12 casts before you set a lloyds beacon, tp to a temple, heal up, and go back in.
It's the most mind numbing tedious bullshit way to grind through mm6's "large, interesting and well designed" dungeons ever.
>>3113548
>500 or 600 mana
>you get maybe 10 or 12 casts
Didn't you say it's been 5 years since you played 6? Your memory is way off. LOL and stop replying to yourself
>>3113521
You do know that if those 100 devil captains get a turn you're toast, right?
I never beat MM6 Mandate of Heaven even back when it was cutting-edge tech and open-world games like GTA didn't exist, the game just got boring sometime afterthe core dungeon with the laser rifles where every enemy can disintegrate your party members on one hitand I never really had much of an interest to finish it out.
Was great fun while it lasted, but not sure I could go back.
>>3088409
>Holy shit this game is boring after the first 4-5 hours
>It's getting fucking tedious.
>holy moly I don't want to play anymore. So damn repetitive.
>I don't know if I can handle 60-70 more hours of this. It's so damn repetitive... Ugh.
Welcome to old RPGs
>>3113574
Are you serious? Do you think you're fucking Conan the Barbarian or something? Who the fuck told you to jump into the middle of the enemy horde like a poo-stained retard? You lure out a few at a time.
>>3113576
>the core dungeon with the laser rifles where every enemy can disintegrate your party members on one hit and I never really had much of an interest to finish it out.
LOL so the game got boring for you after you had beaten 95% of it? Confirmed for trolling and never actually playing the game and basing your opinions off of youtube videos.
>>3113559
different people, dude. i'm playing through 6 right now. It's so tedious, but I hate myself so whatever.
>>3113604
>the game got boring for you after you had beaten 95% of itHaving the whole thing turn sci-fi out of nowhere, and completely invalidating most of your spells/other skills for one-button ranged blasters and insta-perma-megadeath throughout that entire goddamned dungeon,really made everything crash down. The dungeons leading up to that point were generally round arenas full of high-level monsters too, and the end area in the northwest corner with the bees wasn't generally survivable without that sort of gear or skills.
But anyway by then I had hundreds of hours invested into the game, it's not all that surprising that the next hot-new-thing caught my attention before I could beat it.
The most memorable parts were in the early first few stages where you're still getting used to your characters and abilities, I remember quicksaving around the swamp isle and the open crossroads area to the west of the starting area and taking on large groups of monsters I wasn't prepared to encounter.
Once you get to a certain point, it stops becoming fun strategy and starts becoming busywork, and then the end portion completely discards all your existing skills and makes everything you've done to that point irrelevant, asking you to grind up an entirely new skillset and fetch entirely new collectable items to even have a chance. It's the first section that really stood out for me.
>>3113637
hah i still don't believe you actually got to that point.
>asking you to grind up an entirely new skillset
yeah, the thing is if you actually played the game to that point you'd know that you'd have dozens of free skill points remaining so that you can get blasters up to around 10+ immediately.
also, only one enemy type can instakill.
>turn sci-fi out of nowhere
is this your first might & magic game?
also, blasters are optional. don't blame the game for your lack of skill.
with all that said, mm6 still owns mm7
>>3113658
>yfw you realize you're getting trolled for not grinding hard enough on a game you last played 20+ years ago
>>3113665
>yfw you also realize that this was back before always-on internet access was a thing, and so the only discussions about the game you had were 'how far did you get' and 'did you find the secret part with the gold dragon or the guy with 999999 health yet' and 'what's your favorite spell' with local friends who weren't self-professed experts
Holy fuck I think I just figured out why nostalgia is a thing. I need to stop watching LP vids, I need to stop looking to 4chan for opinions on shit, and I need to make some fucking friends.
>>3113658
>also, blasters are optional.
So is magic, doesn't mean anyone's stupid enough to not use it.
>>3113696
>you forgot the fact that you start the game with magic, while blasters are gotten with 5% of the game remaining
How the fuck does that even matter? The main quest for almost the entirety of the game, literally from the moment you first talk to Wilbur Humphrey and up until you free Archibald, is to gain access to the Oracle and get the blasters.
>>3113706
and? >implying i give a shit about story in a might & magic game
does it change the fact that
mm6 has
bigger dungeons
better dungeons
better graphics
longer playing time
better music
and is just plain a better game
>>3113696
>>3113559
You are responding to (at least) two different people. I'm the guy who last beat the game five years ago. I've finished the game several times and I know a lot more about it than the poster you're responding to.
>>3112672
I played a bit of my completed save. I'm not seeing a drastic difference. Sorry.
Why does Might & Magic 7 have so many useless classes?
What's the point of using Rangers, Monks, Thieves, Druids, Paladins?
>>3113718
In MM6 it was mostly to go through the guild quests
>>3113715
Tell me a dungeon from 7 that is comparable to varn
>>3113723
Why are Rangers, Monks, Thieves, Druids, and Paladins so pointless? Everything they can do Knights, Clerics and Sorcerers can do better.
>>3113718
>Rangers
Because everyone wants to be Aragorn.
>Monks
Because they do tons of damage and survive everything with virtually no gear.
>Thieves
For GM stealing just so you can steal the control cube near the end without fighting captain laser.
>Druids
Because you really really want to use herbs for something other than vendor trash?
>Paladins
Nobody knows.
>>3113731
>Because everyone wants to be Aragorn.
Rangers are horrible though. Pointless class.
>Because they do tons of damage and survive everything with virtually no gear.
No they don't. Everything they can do knights can do better. Pointless.
>For GM stealing just so you can steal the control cube near the end without fighting captain laser.
Just for that one thing? Sounds pointless for 99% of the game.
>Because you really really want to use herbs for something other than vendor trash?
Money is really easy to come by in that game. Pointless.
>Nobody knows.
Okay.
>>3113734
>No they don't. Everything they can do knights can do better. Pointless.
Monks have better damage for half the game (until knights get GM armsmaster) and better survivability from the moment they start putting points in dodge.
>>3113739
No they don't.
>>3113742
The math has been done literally in this thread.
>>3113752
Monk gm unarmed doesn't even work properly. Monks are only good for high armor, whoop dee doop. their damage comes nowhere close to knights or even thieves.
rangers, thieves, druids, paladins are still pointless
>>3113752
Yes, you can find in this very thread CONCLUSIVE PROOF that Monks are competitive with Knights if you cheat profusely.
>>3113982
monks are shit. even rangers can be good if you cheat. mm7 has more pointless classes than not. monks, rangers, paladins, thieves, and archers are practically pointless because everything they can do knights, clerics and sorcerers can do better. so there's literally no point in choosing those shitty classes except for the novelty value. mm6 classes were great and all useful.
>>3113982
>you need to cheat profusely to find a single ring with good +unarmed stats at any point of the game
Keep telling yourself that.
>>3114218
there's just the one guy trolling all of us by being such an obstinate idiot about all things mm, barely understanding how the game works, and talking shit about everything that isn't mm6. We need to wake up and stop arguing with him.
>>3114218
Your opinions on the matter remain irrelevant since you cheat profusely and have no idea what the game actually plays like.
>>3114736
Are you daft? Which one of his points were not valid?
>>3088409
Wait until you get to supreme titans.
>implying you wont abuse free fly up/down during turn based mode to avoid projectiles
>>3113724
To this day I have no clue how that map can help anyone. Or how the fuck did I even manage to beat varn and darkmoor while 12 year old way back when. I doubt I would be able to do it today.
>>3116971
You just need to filter out all of the lines indicating things like where slopes start and end. Once you realize almost all of the seemingly pointless lines are just the geometry of the "inner pyramid" room with the two big pools, it gets easier to figure out where you are.
>>3088409
Any way of increasing draw distance and resolution?
>>3088409
Fighter/Archer/Cleric/mage team is the only valid one. Also you have to teach everyone archery to survive early levels. Might and Magic 6 was quite good but 7 & 8 are the best. (excluding world of xeen)
>>3117059
Beware -- there's a poster in this thread who doesn't like opinions.
As for me, I quite like 8 but I wouldn't rank it with the best of the series. What do you think is so good about it?
>>3117069
I think it is nostalgia from moments when i spent whole summer nights playing this game as a teenager. I also quite liked dungeons in this part.
>>3117059
>Fighter
>mage
This ain't Final Fantasy bruh.
>>3117131
I see my fault now. haven't played this game for years. I meant knight and sorcerer.
>>3116994
There's one, but only for MM7 and only for the resolution. It also shafts the UI but what else can you do about it. I doubt you can do the same with MM6 since it's all software rendering.
https://www.gog.com/forum/might_and_magic_series/might_and_magic_7_graphics_tweaks_mouse_input_and_more
>>3117069
>Beware -- there's a poster in this thread who doesn't like opinions.
Oh shut up, pussy. It takes two to tango.
