I've actually had some faggots tell me that the Crash series is far better than Mario 64.
As someone with little nostalgia for either, and having only beaten Mario 64 a few years ago, I just can't understand the rationale outside of these idiots not giving it much real thought.
How does this basic-ass, no momentum, hallway simulator game objectively come even close to how Mario 64 and how it not only wrote the book on proper 3D platforming, but hasn't aged terribly in regards to its mechanics either?
One of their claims is that it has better characters and art design, claiming Mario to be droll, but eh, fuck that too. Crash is 90s Dreamworks feeling as fuck.
Am I just retarded on this or what, /vr/?
tomba 2 is the best 3d platformer
>Am I just retarded on this or what, /vr/?
Look at what you posted, anon.
If the concept of people valuing different directions of game design vexes you to the point where you have to make a thread about it, calling them faggots and idiots, then you probably are.
Having played both, most times I'd rather boot up Crash than SM64. If it makes a difference, I'd also rather replay a DKC game than a Mario game on the SNES.
>>3077259
Taste m80. Thats all there is to it.
Different tokes for different folks.
Short version. Who cares, just get on with your life
I never played a Nintendo but Crash was one of the dullest, poorly designed games I was ever suckered into asking for Christmas. At least Spyro was decent.
>>3077259
tldr: crash bandicoot is just the non ios-version of temple run
>>3077384
This.
Totally different games.
Mario 64 is the Ur-example of the collectathon. The challenege in Mario 64 does not come from the same things it came from in tratitional 2D pladformers, such as the timing of obstacles and the observation of enemy patterns.The challenege in Mario 64 comes from a more abstract, adventure/exploration mechanic. The stars are in hard to reach areas, rather than the level itself being challenging to overcome.
Crash, meanwhile, is a thorough continuation of old school 2D platforming mechanics, but done with super slick (for the time, but arguably still even now) 3D presentation. The levels are linear in order to focus the challenge on overcoming hazards, and the way it gradually exposes you to more complex, imposing combinations of the various mechanics is very rewarding.
I think Crash is a much better platformer than Mario 64, but I don't consider Mario 64 to be a part of that category really. Think of all the other games it influenced- Banjo, Spyro and so on... They all still have platforming, but gradually that become less and less of a focus of the actual gameplay. Executing precise jumps and figuring out enemy patterns became secondary to exploring and gathering the various collectibles- Just look at how the games changed from starting out as 1 hit death (with some sort of extra hit collectible), to giving you a "health" system as standard.
>>3077259
>but hasn't aged terribly in regards to its mechanics either?
Not only have SM64 movement mechanics not aged much, they have never been surpassed by any game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc5hVu96e9Y
>>3077950
DAT SKILL CEILING
>>3077560
I agree that they're different games, but I don't agree that Mario 64 is a "collecthaton", in order to reach stars you have to get through a set of platforming challenges.
And unlike Banjo, which makes some pieces unobtainable until you collect some more stuff and get new abilities, in SM64 you don't get new moves other than the 3 powerups that are only needed for a couple stars, most of the stars you get on the game, you get with the same moves and controls you start the game with. In that sense, I think SM64 is actually a platformer and not a collecthaton/exploration game.
Crash took a different approach at 3D platforming, making levels a lot more narrow, and most of the challenges come from jumping over pits instead of making tricky jumps to reach new areas.
I think there's no need to define which one was "better", because they're ultimately very different.
As a kid I liked both SM64 and Crash 2, but Mario 64 blew my mind, whereas Crash 2 was just fun but not mind blowing.
>>3077969
>Mario 64 blew my mind, whereas Crash 2 was just fun but not mind blowing.
this. i even found the spyro games much more fun to play than crash. movement in crash felt slow and lifeless. it was totally without feeling. no sense of momentum or weight.
>>3077950
i hate when '90s born millennial retards complain about this game's camera and controls
fucking idiots
Why is it so hard for people to state a point of view without coming off like they have to have a drool shield over their keyboard. When you can't even make a point without adding "fucking idiot" at the end of it, you just look like a whiny little kid.
>>3077997
'90s born millennial retard detected
I prefer Crash 1 to Mario 64. Gameplay-wise Mario 64 was obviously a lot more revolutionary back in 1996 but I've never been a big fan of 3D open-world style platformers and prefer Crash Bandicoot, which was a much more traditional kind of platformer.
Given the option, I'd personally would take Crash 1-3 and CTR over Mario 64.
Just saying.
>>3077446
>poorly designed
Can you give a couple of examples? I always thought that tight game design was something Naughty Dog really excelled at.
>>3077259
Everyone has different opinion anon, personally I prefer banjo kazooie, some prefer mario 64 and some prefer crash bandicoot.
Crash was better than Mario you edgy poke generation scum bag.
pic related it's probably you
>>3079071
It's fine to enjoy BK or Crash more than SM64, but to argue that SM64 doesn't have significantly more mechanical depth than those games would be totally absurd.
>>3077259
Nostalgia and differing tastes play a large part, but there are some legitimate arguments to be made in terms of how the games are designed. For instance, I've talked to some people who feel that SM64 deviates too much from the tried-and-true platformer formula. I remember one conversation from when I worked in retail with a customer who felt that the open world design trivialized many of the fundamental gameplay conceits of the genre, and hated that it became the blueprint for basically all platformers to come. By contrast, Crash is far more akin to 2D platformers, and doesn't have the kind of problems that he felt SM64 had.
There's also the fact that Crash is a legitimately impressive technical achievement in its own right, just for completely different reasons.
Spyro The Dragon >>> Mario 64 > Crash
>>3079189
>Spyro The Dragon >>> Mario 64
lol
>>3080016
but sm64 sucks tho. bandicoot too. spyro too. all those baby games suck
>>3080032
Cool story kiddo, now run along and play your call of duties, the adults are talking.
>>3080038
actually better gameplay than kiddy-platformer mario64 or crash bandicooch
>>3077259
Mario 64 = Re-use same 10 stages 50 times. Collectathon. Gets tiresome.
Crash series = action games navigating through a course.
Crash series are more fun and true-er to 2D era platforming games.
mario can't even wallrun and the physics are buggy as hell, take off the nostalgia goggles.
also 2d platformers > 3d platformers. simple as.
except trials in unreal tournament. but most of you won't know what that is.
>>3080121
>Crash series = action games navigating through a course.
*corridor
>>3080131
>take off the nostalgia goggles.
What nostalgia? I still play SM64 regularly, multiple times a week. There's an endless plethora of things to do and ways to improve your movement skill. The replay value and skill ceiling is amazing.
crash bandicoot = temple run in lower resolution
>>3080121
>Collectathon
I don't think you understand what this word means. Mario 64 is no more of a "collectathon" than Crash is.
>true-er to 2D era platforming games
So?
>>3080261
>I don't think you understand what this word means.
Mario 64 focuses on collecting stars in a limited amount of levels to complete the game whereas other Mario games focused on getting to the end of individual levels. Each world in Mario 64 has 100 coins and 8 red coins to collect for completion. How is that NOT a collectathon, you dumb fucking retard?
>>3077290
you a shit
...now Klonoa
>>3080578
So Yoshi's Island is a collectathon because each level has 20 red coins, 5 flowers, and 30 stars to collect?
Crash and Mario 64 aren't even the same genre. Mario 64 is a fairly "open world" platformer where Crash is essentially a 2.5d game.
>>3080583
That's basically all it is.
Nintendo just thinly veils it behind artistic style and flair. Kind of like how all Disney movies are "coming of age" films.
>>3080596
>That's basically all it is.
Yeah, and the best 2d platformer ever made.
>>3080596
In Crash you collect gems and shit, it's a collecthaton too.
>>3080578
>Mario 64 focuses on collecting stars in a limited amount of levels to complete the game
Each of which can only be obtained by completing a specific challenge, making it through a particular stretch of platforming or defeating a boss.
>Each world in Mario 64 has 100 coins and 8 red coins to collect for completion.
There are actually more than 100 coins in each level so you don't need to collect all of them to get a star but yeah, that one aspect of the game is the closest it comes to being collectathon-ish. The red coins are different because they're hidden and often in hard-to-reach places, so they usually require some skill and dexterity to get to.
Collectathons are great when designed well. In fact the whole problem is that they are so hard to design well that developers ran out of ideas, and noone appreciated them like they would a zelda game. Like a youtuber who used to create amazing original content, ran out of ideas, and is now reduced to making Mike and James style content to earn their bread.
> Muh momentum
The game does have momentum, but it's just fairly rigid, which works better for precision platforming. Games like Sonic are cancer, because you keep sliding all over the place.
>>3080630
Crash is not a collectathon, because it doesn't force the player to collect virtually anything in order to progress.
Mario 64 requires, without glitches, 70/121 stars to beat the game. There are 15 regular stages, 3 boss stages, and six bonus stages. Only the regular stages have 100-coin stars; all stages but the Princess's Secret Slide have red coin stars. Taking those out of circulation for being collection-based, there's still 83 stars available.
Stars by themselves mostly represent stage completion (there are 5 to just be found around the castle; three from Toad, two from the rabbit), which allows somewhat non-linear progression; the game wouldn't change much if each goal was a stage node on a world map grid instead.
I wouldn't call Super Mario 64 a collect-a-thon because the only gating to the end is "have you finished enough stages." All collecting the 100 coins and red coins gets you is an apperance by Yoshi, extra lives, and a cosmetic jump, which might as well be a merit badge for doing post-game content at that point.
By contrast, Crash Bandicoot locks bonus levels behind collecting (smashing) all boxes on a level on one life, and collecting keys in some said bonus levels. It actually gates content behind collecting harder than Super Mario 64 does.
They are both shit.
The obnoxious noises Mario makes when jumping is unbearable except for toddlers and those on the autism spectrum.
The innumerable crates Crash is required to destroy reminds me of dull, mind numbing FPS games of the late 90s and early 2000s that had them in every single room.
Klonoa has better gameplay than either of these and runs in 60fps to boot.
If I had to choose between Mario and Crash I would pick Crash because he has left the memories of the normies whereas Mario has become the face of gaming.
>>3077259
Look on the bright side, at least it wasn't Spyro.
It's not retro, but the Sly Cooper series is much better 3D platforming than Mario, Crash, Spyro, Banjo, DK, or Sonic.
>>3081771
Sly is basically the furfag offspring of Crash and MGS.
It's fucking great, but I can't say it's better than Crash when its gameplay is so similar.
