What went wrong?
Junction.
Level scaling.
There, thread over.
Junction system.
Bland characters.
When i first played this i was 10 and didnt understand how to exploit junctioning. It was pretty good, for a 10 year old.
When i replay it now its a fair bit more painful.
Music is absolutely godtier though. 'The castle' is probably hands down nobuo's best piece of work. Its Beethovens pathetique condensed into 3ish minutes.
Also that recurring idee fixe throughout the game is outstanding.
>>3071891
Your father's condom.
>>3071891
Lack of difficulty. Otherwise, it's a very solid game.
>>3071891
Some troll made a rant and his fans jumped blindly into the hate wagon
wow the american cover art sucks
>>3071891
Nothing.
Everything
I thought "FF8 sucks" meme died when Spoony lost his mind.
>>3071891
Typical FF nonsense story with a higher focus on non-interactive melodrama than before
Worse than terrible cast
Junction system is shit and I especially hate the way it replaces normal equipment
Level scaling
Long-ass summon animations that you can't skip, and it certainly doesn't help that the gameplay is designed around them
Only allowed four commands at a time
The music is fantastic though, arguably the best in the series. Needless to say it's way better than the game deserved.
>>3071891
It penalized you for exploring the world map.
Granted it's a non-issue kind of thing, but that's about the most "wrong" feeling thing I can think of that hasn't been mentioned.
>>3071891
I remember the plot being all over the place. I also didn't care for the level scaling, the SEED rank system, or the fact that you can't enter towns on the final disc. Why the fuck can't you go in to the towns? That is just stupid. Also, the limit break mechanic is easy as fuck to abuse.
>>3072089
>Long-ass summon animations that you can't skip, and it certainly doesn't help that the gameplay is designed around them
You're doing it wrong. Summons are worthless, limit breaks are all you need. Zell can one-shot every enemy in the game (except those with multiple phases). You can activate a limit break whenever you like by mashing character change.
>>3072116
That works best when the character is at low health and is the only one able to act.
Also, the unskippable summon animations work in your favor once you unlock Boost for a GF. That lets you pound on the square button during the animation for extra damage.
Objectively the best retro JRPG.
If you don't like this game you need to switch to another genre like wrestling games or flight sims because no other JRPG will satisfy you.
>>3071891
Nothing. It's fine
The only thing I would really change is making everyone older because having a bunch of udnerage kids running around with weapons to save the world while all the adults just sit there and do jack shit nothing seems a little irresponsible to me.
Spoony. Thats it.
>>3073450
This.
Nobody had any problem with this game until his autistic rant.
>>3073478
I did. I like how /vr/ always comes up with pet theories for people disagreeing with them, though.
>>3073494
Everyone has a subjective opinion on every game ever made, including Final Fantasy. It wasn't until spoony when VIII being bad turned into an objective fact. And it's completely retarded how much of a whipping boy it became due to it.
>>3073478
More accurately, everyone hated the game when it was initially released, because they were too fucking stupid to get the junctioning system. After all, most RPGs don't require you to think at all, just grind endlessly and pick the skills with col names.
FFVIII broke the mold, and REQUIRED planning and knowledge to not end up dead, so people hated it.
After that, once the first few guides came out, people hated it because it's "broken" and you can become godlike on the first island (if you know what to do, which most don't without a guide)
So basically, stupid people is what went wrong. And it's not surprising, since it's a totally different kind of RPG. It's a thinking man's RPG.
In contrast, look at FFX, which literally has a simple board game for skill building and "customization". The same morons fucking LOVE that shit. It takes the standard, brain-dead RPG nonsense, and makes it fun in a childish way...
But I digress...
>>3073534
yea but spoony said it sucks and junction system sucks too tho and squall is an emo fgt xD
>>3071891
>what went wrong?
no 8 part 2 where you get to play seifers story with fujin and raijin.
>>3073540
filthy multi-tasking quistis xD xD xD lololo spoony is king!!!!!!
>>3071891
PC version use midi
this is the only final fantasy i distinctly remember playing on christmas the year it came out. My brother got it and went to go to a girlfriend's for the night so I got dibs all night.
I remember getting rekt by Ifrit first time and then enjoying the hell out of it afterward. I was probably no older than 11 and figured out junctioning i think. At least good enough to grind to 99 and take my memory cards to buddies houses and be like U EVER SEEN ISLAND CLOSEST TO HECK??
It was too much like FF7. Square thought they had created the "new" format for the traditional JRPG but new school games wanted more variety.
>>3073602
>I distinctly remember exactly when I played it but I don't remember how old I was
>>3073534
>everyone hated the game when it was initially released
>implying
I've always loved it, and even though i didn't understand jack shit about junctioning until many years later, it didn't take rocket science to figure out that telling it to set everything automatically would set everything automatically.
All you had to do was refresh the automatic junctions every once in a while after you gained more powerful magics, manual selection was only necessary if you wanted to play the minmaxing game, and you could easily beat the game without it.
>>3073534
>junction big healing spell to HP
>get to yellow HP, which is still safe because damage doesn't scale quickly
>jam on triangle until a limit shows up
>spam free limits
That sure is deep and thought provoking and I totally didn't figure this out and curbstomp most of the game when I was 10, nope.
>>3071891
This is the best ff game look at 13.
The game play was fine, nothing amazing. The music was great. But the story was fucking awful with... I can't call them plot holes. Because they aren't. Rather there are huge patches of story that simply have nothing to do with anything. And the important parts of the plot receive little to no elaboration.
It's like if they wrote an entire story the way FF9 treated the stories of Amarant, Quina, and Freya.
I played it when it was released and enjoyed it. I didn't like it as much as FF7, but it was still a good rpg, especially for the tiny EU RPG library.
What I think went wrong:
>Poorly explained mechanics
I don't think the junction system is inherently bad, but it was really poorly explained. At least, 11 year old me could barely understand it. I mostly spammed GFs so I could see the next part of the story. I know I'm not alone in this. If I played it again, though, I'd play it totally differently because I know how it all works.
>Contrived plot twist
You know which one I mean. It comes out of nowhere and, at least, APPEARS contrived.
>Focus on romance
I don't think anyone going into FF8 was expecting this. I was expecting another scifi adventure (and I still got that) not a focus on romance. Personally, I found Squall's attachment to Rinoa very abrupt. If you look at it from the perspective of Squall being an irrational teen with mood swings, it kinda makes sense. The only problem with that is he doesn't act like a teen most of the time. It's poor character writing. I also didn't like Rinoa as a character. Entirely a personal thing, but I found her selfish and annoying.
>Pacing
Mostly concerning the White Seed ship, but I remember there being some parts that dragged. To be honest though, there are whole chunks of FF8's story I just don't remember, but I could recount all of FF7 to you off the top of my head. I'm not a big FF7 fan, but I found the story far more memorable.
>Poorly explored concepts
The whole time travel thing is pretty much delegated to a subplot. I think this is a mistake, since it explains a lot about the antagonist. Also the idea of GF's ruining your memory is pretty much glossed over. It's mentioned a few times, if you pay attention, but since it ties into a very important plot twist, I think it should have been explored in more detail. Overall, I think FF8 tried to cram too many ideas into one game.
Post character limit, so that will do.
>>3073828
Squall is a teenager brought up in a military life. Pretty par the course.
>>3073828
>poorly explained mechanics
Not really. The Junction system has a rather robust tutorial, you being a moronic kid probably just ignored it.
>contrived plot twist
I actually have no idea what you're talking about. A lot of FF8's plot ranges from really smart and well thought out to being shoe horned in, but since plot is pretty subjective I'll let it slide.
>focus on romance
It's not just romance. Squall just has problems expressing himself. He cares deeply about everyone in the party.
>seems abrupt
You've never just hung out with a girl and after awhile realized you liked her as more than just a friend? Would a love at first sight have been better for you? I'll concede that the romance subplot is very in your face in FF8 but it's probably more natural than most people realize.
>pacing
>white seed ship
Only an issue if you don't know where to go.
>poorly explored concepts
>GF's ruining your memory is glossed over
>tons of stuff in the beginning about the dangers of using GF.
>very important plot twist
People get their panties in a bunch about this for some reason. Does it matter that they were all at the same orphanage as kids?
They're orphans and they all end up at schools that train children to be mercenaries. It's not -that- far fetched to imagine they would end up working together at some point.
I don't know why people have so much trouble with junction system. It's literally equipment system except it's magic instead of armor.
>>3074026
Because people are stupid.
>>3071891
Yoko came between them and killed the band.
>>3074026
General stupidity
It's easier than shit.
this is the only FF I managed to beat as a kid - I was shit at games
also does Squall get cucked by Seifer or am I imagining things
Also no fucking idea what Lagunas flashbacks were about, cool music tho
Wait why was laguna even in the fucking game
>>3074224
It's implied Rinoa had a relationship with Seifer before even meeting Squall. Whether or not they fucked is debatable.
Also, you fucking murder Seifer no less than 3 times, so who is the cuck there.
>>3074224
Laguna is heavily implied, but not outright stated to be Squall's father.
Whether or not the Laguna segments are of any relevance to the plot is debatable, but it was an interesting experiment.
>>3074243
>Also, you fucking murder Seifer no less than 3 times, so who is the cuck there.
Let's see Seifer beats you in a one on one duel
You stomp on him later equipped with OP magic and often your party members helping
Seifer cuts Odin in half
Gilgamesh has to bail your ass out
hmmmmmmmmmm
>>3073858
>You've never just hung out with a girl and after awhile realized you liked her as more than just a friend? Would a love at first sight have been better for you? I'll concede that the romance subplot is very in your face in FF8 but it's probably more natural than most people realize.
Except here's the thing: Squall goes out of his way to avoid having relationships with anyone, and the game makes it clear that it's because he doesn't want to feel the pain of loss a second time after losing his sis as a kid (as for how he remembers that in the first place despite suffering from amnesia, search me) and Rinoa in general has nothing likable about her. She's extremely stubborn, immature and obnoxious, tries to "help" everyone by constantly getting in the way and needing to be rescued more often than Princess Toadstool etc. yet because she's the only one to get under Squall's skin and break down the wall he put up around himself, he suddenly decides "Hey, maybe being in a relationship ain't so bad after all" which completely contradicts his entire character up until that point. It had the potential to be realistic (by animu standards anyway) but as it is, it is not.
>>3074437
I don't think you understand how character development works. The character is meant to change and no longer be like they were in the beginning. It's fine that you don't like Rinoa or her personality, but maybe because she was so different(stubborn, not giving up until she gets what she wants, needs rescuing etc) than all the other people around Squall that she is the one that manages to get behind his shield.
I don't think the story is as bad as people want it to be, especially not compared to other FFs.
As for all the main characters being orphans together and then ending up together again isn't that weird, considering Cid and Edea are pulling the strings.
>>3074456
>I don't think you understand how character development works. The character is meant to change and no longer be like they were in the beginning.
I don't think you do either you consider the character suddenly doing a 180 on their personality without any valid reasoning or buildup to it to be "good development". Also I could understand if she could do it by herself but there are several occasions where she needed Zell and the others to help her in getting Squall to like her.
>>3074474
Didn't seem like he did a 180 change to me. Did you ever fall in love as a teenager? Sometimes it takes times, other times you will fall in love fast. Either way, people change a lot when they're in love. From my own experience aswell as knowing how my friends acted as teens in love, it never felt out of place or weird that Squall acted as he did in the game. You may also have heard that you don't know how much you will miss something or someone until they are gone, and that is true. Sometimes you do take things for granted and when it's gone the perspective changes and you might realise what your true feelings are. So again, I never thought it was weird that Squall didn't admit to himself how much he cared for Rinoa until she fell into coma.
Also, what's the problem with Rinoa getting help from the others to get Squall to like her? Again, didn't you or any of you friends fall in love growing up?
>>3074496
>Did you ever fall in love as a teenager?
Yes, but I wasn't a sperg who tried avoiding relationships at every turn.
>Again, didn't you or any of you friends fall in love growing up?
I never needed their help to get a girl I liked, and they never needed mine.
>>3071891
Nothing went wrong anon. This is like best game ever.
>>3074528
You might acutally have aspergers seeing as you have difficuly understanding that characters in a story do not necessarily need to reflect your own personal experiences in life.
>>3074437
>>3074456
>>3074474
>>3074496
Squall grows as a character throughout FF8.
He isn't comfortable being a leader, but becomes one. He has a hard time expressing himself and hides behind his "whatever" attitude but he does the right thing in his place.
How you think he 180'd is beyond me. He genuinely grows as a character.
>>3071891
Two words, OP: chicken-wuss.
My enjoyment of everything including this game ends where offensive language and hate speech begins. The fact that racist, neo-nazi skinhead, Seifer, uses this term as an insult to Zell, who is gay, is extremely insensitive to homosexuals as well as both the chicken and the wuss communities. The pejorative slur is doubly problematic for female chickens in particular, as it implies that cowardice and powerlessness are fundamentally feminine characteristics, and that those are therefore inherently undesirable traits. The idea that chicken biology is shaped by the process of evolution is a misogynistic myth; the reality is that it is a construct of chicken society. In fact, female chickens are just like people that are women -- all are victims of patriarchy. That's why as a modern feminist, I'm proud to call myself a Chicken Justice Warrior. I stand united with the rest of the city of San Francisco, the entire field of games journalism, and online barnyard culture critics in the eternal struggle against sexism -- and roosters.
I liked FF8 a lot as a kid, but looking back it feels sterile and lifeless to me compared to FF6 or FF7... though I still prefer it over FF9.
>>3074871
Then why the fuck did you bring it up?
>>3074879
>He isn't comfortable being a leader, but becomes one.
He was like that from the get go. He was the only one who was halfway-competent at his job since everyone else was a retarded fuckup who broke protocol and jeopardized missions just to apologize to each other for hurting their feelings. Naturally, this meant them pushing all responsibility onto him.
>He has a hard time expressing himself and hides behind his "whatever" attitude but he does the right thing in his place.
He actively tried to avoid expressing himself all the time, for reasons already mentioned above.
>How you think he 180'd is beyond me. He genuinely grows as a character.
Because Rinoa annoyed him for a little bit and suddenly he decides that he no longer minds suffering the pain of loss despite going out of his way to avoid it up until then.
>>3075110
I don't get the love for FF9 either. Aside from the characters (who were as entertaining as they were endearing) it was one of the most bog-standard, uninspired JRPGs in the history of the genre.
>>3075110
ff8 was very much made by a flowchart. I liked it because I was an asian kid and I wanted asian rinoa pussy though, and it validated my self-concept.
7 and 10 are obviously superior though
>>3074474
Here's a question. Why where the rest of the party so interested in Squall's well being. He was kind of a dick to all of them except for maybe Selphie.
He completely blew Quistis off and wouldn't so much as shake Zell's hand. Yet they all run around like idiots and bend over backwards to hook him up. Most normal teenagers would call the guy a cunt and completely ignore him thereafter.
Remember non of them remember the orphanage anyways so there's no reason they have to be nice to be at all super helpful to someone who's a complete wanker
Irvine is a faggot copycat.
Also, squall is an emo.
>>3075310
10 doesn't get enough love, it's combat system was perfect.
>>3075323
I think they depended on him to not die, basically. he wasn't that mean to them. they probably just realized he was shy/underchallenged. if I meet someone quiet, I don't FORCE them to act like me.
>>3075325
yeah that looks gay
>>3075327
its the #1 ff in japan, actually. americans just didn't like it for some reason. it's still probably #2 in america
>>3075323
Because he's the best looking guy there.
Also girls love jerks. Nice guys finish last.
>>3075351
>if I meet someone quiet, I don't FORCE them to act like me.
Unless you're Rinoa. But it's totally okay because he ends up falling in love with her despite being afraid of feeling the pain of loss.
>>3075351
>its the #1 ff in japan, actually. americans just didn't like it for some reason. it's still probably #2 in america
Really? I could have sworn Dragon Quest was much more popular over there. I know X is the most popular of the FF series though.
>>3075351
>if I meet someone quiet, I don't FORCE them to act like me.
There's a difference between being QUIET and just staring at someone like THEY'RE the asshole for wanting a handshake.
He doesn't act like someone who's shy. Someone who's shy would bunch up and keep physical distance and reply meekly. He was a straight up, grade A jackass who thought he was better than everyone.
He wasn't wrong but that's beside the point, he didn't really know them well enough to know that yet.
really. He couldn't return a fucking handshake.
>>3075310
>was an asian
You mean you aren't asian anymore?
>>3075323
[insert 8fag defense about how a character being an unlikable piece of shit is "realistic" and if you think otherwise you're just a sad loser virgin who needs to go outside more]
>>3076413
Because US translations ruin everything.
>>3076416
FF8 is where Square really jacked up the translation quality, making sure that the translation team was working with the writers to make sure that everything was clear as a bell.
>>3076435
Except it wasn't, at least in accuracy terms.
>>3075323
>Most normal teenagers would call the guy a cunt and completely ignore him thereafter.
Not really. Most normal teenagers would be all over his balls. Teenagers love angsty fucks who treat them like assholes. How the fuck do you think cliques form the way they do? Teenagers love being absolute pricks.
>>3076461
>Teenagers love angsty fucks who treat them like assholes.
Just curious, when was the last time you went outside?
>>3076435
>changed squall's line from "sorry" to "whatever" making him look like a fucking asshole instead of a distant and socially uncomfortable dweeb
>"quality"
wwww
>>3076461
>Not really. Most normal teenagers would be all over his balls. Teenagers love angsty fucks who treat them like assholes.
No they don't you retard. Most teenagers if not withdrawn assholes themselves are hot headed emotional idiots who fly off the handle if someone looks at them funny
>junction system complaints
It's pretty decent as long as you don't have the autistic need to break the game. If you play normally it's easy but fun.
>level scaling
I could do without that shit, though.
>what went wrong
The fans.
>>3073767
Basically this.
Much like how the battle system is in itself, fun to tinker with and get creative but not such a good system overall, the story is also fun to theorize and dig into but in terms of playthrough and taking it at face value, is nonsensical shit tier.
>>3077153
best OST in the series btw.
nothing comes close.
>>3077142
One of the only sensible posts in the thread. Thank you.
This is it. The game is fine. Just don't be a sperg and freak out that your Str stat lowered just because you used a stupid Firaga.
>>3077164
>This is it. The game is fine.
How's about you don't be a sperg who freaks out because people shit talk your game.
Really if the game had any merits you'd be listen them instead it's always the same without faggots
>Waaah you're playing it wrong
>waaaah you didn't understand it
>>3077142
If you play the game normally it becomes harder because enemies level scale with you though.
>>3077203
I'm not freaking out faggot.
I'm just saying that people that complain about losing stats being the cost of using magic are missing the point. Stop being a faggot, bitch.
>>3077209
>I'm not freaking out faggot.
you clearly are.
>I'm just saying that people that complain about losing stats being the cost of using magic are missing the point.
And if you actually payed attention to the point being made you'd realize that people are complaining that it's a stupid mechanic that punishes you for wanting to do more than mash attack to win the fight.
That's the actual problem you ape. That people who wanted to use magic, one of the basics of rpgs where SOL because actually using all that magic you drew or refined punishes you.
That's not a fun design choice. You don't even have more than one non magic attack option for most fights and it just boils down to mashing attack.
>>3076669
do you know what passive aggressive means? the quality of your post tells me you don't, and can't read into it in dialogue
>>3075325
Sauce on that woman?
>>3077431
>you clearly are
Because you're saying so? Is that really all you have going for you? Are you really this pathetic that you get triggered by a post that posts a single argument in defense of a game that almost constantly gets shat on here? The only one freaking out here is you, pal.
>And if you actually payed attention
Yeah. I've read through the thread. I've read through every FF8 thread I've happened to see here in the last few months. You faggots are the hugest min/max stats bullshit babies I have ever seen. If you can't have max stats you sperg the fuck out and think it isn't worth it to use magic.
The games rules are set up so the cost of using magic is less power and stats. Big deal. I think its an interesting take on the JRPG formula and while I don't think FF should go down that route again, I enjoy FF8 as its own thing.
The bottom line is that you faggots seriously cannot handle any sort of change where it interferes with your min/maxing autism. Fuck off. You're just a big ol' baby that can't deal with the way the game works.
>>3075286
Yeah, you're retarded.
>this thread is made at least once a month now
>anons think youtube boogymen made people hate the game
Christ.
>>3079370
Yeah, I think SpoonyOne's role is mostly solidifying the dislike of the game into more concrete terms - even before his videos, there was already a sense of dissatisfaction with it in general
>>3074496
>Did you ever fall in love as a teenager?
>Again, didn't you or any of you friends fall in love growing up?
>characters in a story do not necessarily need to reflect your own personal experiences in life.
Backpedal harder, faggot.
>>3079370
Said youtube boogeyman has also taken back everything he said about FF8 and admitted his review was wrong. But nope, he's still clearly the reason why anybody would dare to hate on such a wondrous, flawless gem of a game.
I'm glad to see that despite mixed feelings regarding gameplay, story & characters it seems that most agree the OST is the GOAT for an FF game.
>>3073478
>people had a good opinion of X until some e-celeb said it was shit
Indeed, all those LJN games were fantastic until the AVGN said otherwise.
Jesus.
>>3071891
the plot, which is a total clusterfuck of plot holes.
i like the mechanics of the game, though. you can grind for xp, or you can hoard magic. or you can play the crap out of card game - it all helps.
>>3071891
I was 11 years old when I finished this game for the first time and both the plot and the cast were already feeling extremely cheesy to me.
>an edgy emo faggot, a stupid bitch, a couple nerds and some dudebros don't know each other and have to team up
>actually they were all in the same orphanage when they were kids
>everyone has forgotten about it because reasons
>the villain who is the center of the plot for most of the game is actually a good guy who's lost memory
>everyone is amnesic because it's the scenarists' day off
>screw that girl you've been chasing the whole time, here's the actual boss: it's some random witch you don't know shit about
>now have some ending that makes no sense, also fuck you.
>>3080953
Okay so if the GF's are what cause memory loss how come Squall didn't know Zell and Selphie before he used one.
>>3080962
He has been using them, he just forgot how to use them because memory loss and needed to learn again.
Makes you wonder why they even go to school in the first place if they're guaranteed to just forget everything as soon as they start using GFs.
