Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 are the worst retro Sonic
We all agree right?
>>3068724
I mean, Sonic Labyrinth is way worse, Sonic R and 3d blast are also considerably worse.
>>3068724
Keep trying buddy.
CANT HOOOOOLD OOONNN MUCH LONGER~
>>3068726
Sonic R makes up for it by having the best soundtrack in the series though
>>3068724
>Bait.
Lay off the crack pipe bro.
>>3068738
>>3068778
>>3068779
>they think it's bait, not the sad truth
>>3068782
It's arguably true if you're talking purely about the mainline Sonic games, and I'd agree with you there.
There's a million Sonic spinoffs that are way fucking worse than the Adventure games though.
>>3068782
Okay what's wrong with it then?
What's funny is I have no idea, i've seen those crazy glitches like inEgoraptor's shitty ass sequelitisand have never EVER had them happen to be once.
You had to have been really fucking unlucky for shit like that to happen.
Also no sonic labyrinth exists so it'll always be the worst.
>>3068794
Not that anon but Sonic Adventure works fine if you stay on the beaten path but if you try to explore, experiment or backtrack the game usually falls apart pretty quickly.
It's basically held together by duct tape.
>>3068724
>worse than Spinball
>worse than 3D Blast
>worse than Blast
>worse than Labyrinth
I don't think so.
>>3068794
That's because 90% of those glitches has to be forced, and the-soon-to-be-tranny put them in his video because he has the most bizarre hate-boner for sonic.
Then again, why should you or anyone give half a damn what a washed up hack of an artists thinks?
>>3068834
>That's because 90% of those glitches has to be forced, and the-soon-to-be-tranny
I didn't know that was a thing outside /lgbt/you're talking about egoraptor, right?
>>3068856
Yes. There's a .jpg out there documenting all the times he's said he wants to be a girl, and then there's that d-club story.
>>3068859
How long ago was that?
I never saw the jpeg or heard of the d-story.
>>3068724
First Sonic Adventure is redeemable. Second, not so much. I think the second one solidified almost everything that went wrong with the modern 3D Sonic games. The first was just an experiment. The second was almost like they were trying to fail.
>>3068726
This. Don't forget Sonic Blast on the Game Gear. That's probably the worst side-scrolling platformer in the series.
Every 3d sonic game is bad and most of the 2d sonic games are bad.
Sonic is just a garbage series in general. Even worse than Kirby.
>>3068881
>Kirby
>Garbage series in general.
You had me, then you lost me. Either you're retarded or just have garbage tier taste.
>>3068776
Same with Sonic 3D (Saturn version), to be fair.
>>3068889
Adventure and Super Star were amazing games, don't get me wrong. It's the rest that suck.
>>3068880
Adventure 2 had the right mindset for how to improve 3D Sonic despite the poor execution. Dump the weirder playstyles like Amy and Big, keep the games pace fast, build levels around missions and scoring rather than exploration, lots of stylish set pieces so levels feel dynamic.
It took until Generations for them to really nail those ideas though.
>>3068912
>It took until Generations for them to really nail those ideas though.
>modern Sonic levels are dashing games
>modern Sonic drifts like he's on ice, in a game based on speed and execution
>modern Sonic takes almost 2 seconds to actually start running unless you do that boost shit
>doesn't even slow down
Adventure 1 had the best character physics/reaction by a long mile. It had the proportionate amount of precision found in 2d games, the turning is very fast and responsive. Doing the spin and just free-running feels very rewarding, it's an experience I could never replicate in any other Sonic game. SA2 Sonic feels very clunky compared to the first.
Amy and Big were clunky as shit but the other 4 were delicious to control, Gamma included.
>>3068951
*doesn't even slow down with obstacles/walls, just bounces away from them
>>3068951
>modern Sonic levels are dashing games
>modern Sonic drifts like he's on ice, in a game based on speed and execution
>modern Sonic takes almost 2 seconds to actually start running unless you do that boost shit
>doesn't even slow down
yeah that's called momentum, which any game where you move fast should have.
>>3068954
>ice physics are momentum
wew ok
>>3069003
It's meant to simulate trying to come to a stop while you're moving at 500mph. Sonic implements it awfully, I agree, but that's the purpose of the "ice physics" design concept.
>>3068951
>modern Sonic levels are dashing games
The modern levels in Generations are basically platformer/racing games where the goal is to maintain boosting, avoid hits and win little mini challenges in order to get the best time possible and never break the flow.
It works better than Adventure's setup where you're trying to maneuver a character in full 3D roaming environments when he takes off in any direction at mach speed. 2D Sonic gameplay doesn't translate to 3D at all because the extra axis makes controlling him precisely hell.
>>3068912
>Dump the weirder playstyles like Amy and Big
While SA2 definitely made a good choice in doing so, they absolutely fucked up by taking Knuckles' playstyle and ruining it. I would have much rather gone fishing and ran from a robot than wander around a level waiting for chaos emerald shards to register on my radar in a specific order. Seriously, who thought that was a good idea?
>>3069059
That's why people should just play F-Zero X if they want an extremely technical 'gotta go fast' game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP7hdQXoNmw
>>3068724
>Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 are the worst retro Sonic
>We all agree right?
Can we stop these /v/-tier threads?
>____ is a shit game
>we can all agree right?
These threads do not lead to quality discussion. Mods, can you kindly delete this and threads of similar nature? Let's try to have at least one good board.
>>3069180
Wait, Ive never played 2, only 1.
How did they fuck Knuckles gameplay again?
>>3069276
They made the stages much much larger, it becomes super tedious.
>>3069309
Yes, but not just that...
>>3069276
So in SA1, every level had three emerald shards. As long as you were near one of them, the radar would ping and you could hunt them down in any order.
In SA2, only the FIRST emerald shard will ping. The second and third won't be tracked until you find the shard(s) before it. You could be standing right on top of #2 and you won't get any indication of it unless you've found the first. Fuckin' stupid as hell.
You're not missing much by not playing 2. Some of the Sonic/Shadow levels were great, but that doesn't make up for the rest of it. The story is cringeworthy as well. Reads like a shitty Sonic fanfic that someone wrote after watching Neon Genesis Evangelion.
why do people argue over which game is "worst"
why can't we talk about games in terms of "i like it, it's fun"
>>3069340
That doesn't provoke arguments and trolling, the lifeblood of threads on 4chan without which they would die forgotten in the depths of the board.
>>3069315
>>3069309
Well, that would definitely artificially extend gametime.
As of Amy, I really, really, really liked how you would just fly into the air when you used hammer while running at top speed.
I wish there would be more moments where you could just run in the open area and runjump up some platforms.
Maybe even something similar to Tails lvls, like chasing Sonic, dunno.
Instead, her gameplay is a mash of different things. Not really bad in my opinion, but also not very satisfying.
Bigs was....boring? I mean its cool that you can fish and explore and shit, but when you have to do so every lvl, it gets old very quick.
Still cool for a minigame tho.
>>3069350
Yeah, I had fun as Amy. It was nice to have a different kind of platforming, but it was a bit of a missed opportunity. Wouldn't be surprised if it was just an afterthought to throw in another playable character.
And I didn't mind Big. Back then, I really loved the fishing mini-game in Ocarina of Time, so this was just that, but on a grander scale. Luckily there were only a few of each of their levels.
>>3068793
even if it's mainline CD is worse
>>3069634
How can the best Sonic game be worse than Adventure?
>>3068724
yes
S3&K > S2 > S1 > SCD > Sonic R > Every GG/SMS > SA1 > SA2 > 3D Blast > Chaotix
If you disagree, you're a fag.
I don't know pal, there were a ton of Sonic games from back in the day, and a fair amount of them were pretty crap.
They're not bad, just different. You take something about speed, and add a dimension and it's going to be hard to give the same level of control. Look at trying to control Sonic during any Mach Speed segment. Shit was infuriating. Sonic Adventure 1 is basically an experiment of gamestyles, with a test of Sonc included. The they tried to find ways to add Tails and Knuckles without completely breaking the premise of a 3D obstacle course you can just fly over, Amy as a test of less speed more close quarters "combat", Gamma as long range combat that a new 3D perspective allows for, and Big with fishing because Japs like fishing. They weren't entirely sure how to implement everything so they added a hub, and a story for motivation when they could just push you along each level. Did it work? Yes. Did it work well? Debatable. Personally I think it got the job done.
Then they made Adventure 2. They realised people hated Tails, Amy ad Big's styles, hated the hub world and liked the story. So they tried to improve on each. Was gameplay better? Yes, except for some dumb changes to Knuckles' style. Is the story better? Well... It's certainly grander...
Then they took what they learnt from Adventure 2 and made Heroes, which is improves on Adventure 2 but not retro.
Sometimes you need to give developers time to improve. Nothing everything can be amazing always.
>>3070174
S3&K is overrated shit.
The best games are CD and 2.
No.
Sonic Adventure is a bad game.
The levels are mostly terrible, and only Sonic has decent ones.
Big's campaign is nearly broken because of the awful controls, and the robots campaign you can literally beat in 15 minutes by doing nothing but holding forward and pressing the action button. The camera is awful, the hub world is boring and pointless, and the story is shit as well.
Sonic Adventure 2 though is actually a good game. The camera is better, the story; while still melodramatic and ridiculous is a lot more fun and paced well, the levels (except for Tails) are all pretty fun (with a few small exceptions), it controls pretty well, and the Chao Garden is fucking great.
Then again though, I genuinely don't care for any of the 2D Sonic's despite being a Genesis kid back in the day.
>>3068724
I had more fun fucking around in the hubworlds than in any of the adventure levels.
They should've went with a collectathon level design.
>>3070716
They did, if that's your thing. You can get a S-Rank by getting a good score (speed, enemies, fair share of rings) or by getting every single ring, regardless of time.
So you can either get gud, or be an austistic collectathon babby.
>>3070174
>Sonic R above anything
nigger, fucking really?
good soundtrack and that's it
>>3070913
Sticky proves you wrong so get banned, m8.
>>3068880
SA2 was such a chore outside of the Sonic/Shadow levels and those were suffering from such terrible camera/detection issues they were sometimes grating as fuck, especially in space.
>>3070982
Yeah. People like to mention a few things it did to "improve" on the first as though that absolves it from all the new things it did completely wrong.
And I really never had an issue with having a hub world. It gave us a nice, hazard-free area to get used to maneuvering all the characters.
>>3070918
I think we can all agree that Sonic R is a meme game. I'm not sure how anyone can even think the soundtrack is legitimately "good". It's some pretty awful shit.
>>3071040
If you like 90's Eurodance music (as I do) then Sonic R's soundtrack is fucking awesome.
Ahem.
>>3071089
>*tips fedora*
>>3071116
I know it sucks but I've always found it strangely addictive.
>>3068776
Im so happy to know that other people like the soundtrack too.
Look: Sonic Adventure is GOOD. It's not a great game, it's not a terrible game. It's your standard better-than-average game. Sonic Adventure 2 is liked by some/disliked by others. Every other Sonic game probably isn't worth playing.
>>3071224
every other 3D Sonic game* I mean.
The 2D ones are incomparable, it's not like-for-like.
>>3071116
Fun fact, this was developed by the same team from Hudson who worked on Mario Party.
>>3071120
Huh? Is 90's eurodance a fedora thing now? I must not have been sent the memo.
worst was that broken thing on saturn, tech demo disguised as a game.
>R better than SMS games
gimme some of what your smoking bro
>R better than adventure 1 or 2
lol
>>3071241
i just don't understand how they fucked up so bad
>>3071123
Super comfy music too
>>3068724
If we're talking mainline games, I'll concede this because they're competing with the Genesis games and CD.
If we mean overall, you're laughably wrong.
>>3072161
>people I disagree with come from sites I hate!
nice fallacy, /vr/min
>>3072172
way to out yourself butthurt plebbitor
>>3068793
Really? Worse than 06? I mean adventure 1 was ok...
>>3068912
I personally cant agree since generations is a boost to win... But its semantics at this point... However, instead of them cramming mechs into SA2... Wouldnt it have been interesting if they made an "eggman adventure" where they could have went more in depth with the mech stuff and actually had level design based around the controls.
>>3072231
A while ago I thought of an Eggman game where you control his walker, and you can earn and equip new guns, armor, special weapons, etc.
>>3072252
Well yeah thats essentially what it could have been... But if it had went as described it might have meant we could also get tails without the mech... Which would have been great.
While we be talkin' 'bout the Dreamcast, how are the Tomee VGA cables? I really don't feel like splurging on a box right now.
>>3072217
Just talking about the /vr/ Sonics
>>3072282
Oh... Then i guess labyrinth is also there to differ.
>>3072319
And Sonic Blast.
There's also that game.com thing.
>>3072257
Tails without a mech is 3D game breaking, that's why they always force a restriction on him to create difficulty.
>Have to race Sonic
>Stuck in a mech
>Carrying Sonic and Knuckles reduces speed and distance
>Stuck in confined areas where you're forced to linearly follow a path to the goal
I'm about to play sonic CD for the first time. I've downloaded the PC version. Should I use the American soundtrack or the European soundtrack? At the moment I'm leaning towards the latter solely because I love this track:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9A6788MNjk
>>3072841
>Should I use the American soundtrack or the European soundtrack?
Japanese.
>>3072889
euro and jap are the same idiot
>>3072841
Depends: do you want the europop/dance version where each zone has a basic tune that is reworked and rearrange for each time period, including the past tracks sounding like a chiptune rendition of the tune (because fun fact: they are, running off the console hardware instead of redbook audio) creating a cool layered effect in which each version builds off each other, but at the cost of occasionally full retard "engrish" lyrics (JAP/EUR), or do you want the version full of garbage disharmonious, purposely edgy rock version where each track sounds nothing like the others, featuring boss music that tries WAY too hard to be scary while Eggman pushes you around in a robot with pinball bumpers for arms, or strands stationary on a machine need to a treadmill (wow so scary), and the past tracks are completely unchanged, so while completely out of place compared to the rest are still the only saving grace (USA)?
>>3072515
no... just have level design based around his abilities, and plus he get's tired from flying for a reason.
>>3068724
Honestly, Sonic Adventure was cool for what it was. It just wasn't a very good Sonic game.
It didn't translate over the speed I guess, and it was one of the bigger steps of Sanic's descent into Edgelord Faggotry.
That being said, I replayed it on PC a few years ago, and I was expecting a lot worse. The biggest issue I had with it was just how hilariously unnecessary and tedious the overworld was. It was cool when I was younger, but then again I used to spend a month playing one game of Ocarina of Time because I loved to just wander and fuck around. I can beat that game in two days now.
The trams, the barriers, several loading screens between maps, it was all very unnecessary.
>The jungle is still kinda cool though
>>3074249
It's as incessant as Peach's Castle, Gruntilda's Lair, the Island in Crash Bandicoot, whatever it was in Spyro. They weren't sure how to let the player select levels so they just copied everyone else because 3D meant to had to create "worlds" not levels. I like it except it's tiny yet confusing and the junglehas rivers that flow uphill. Immersion ruined.
>>3074564
Yeah, but see, the N64 had cartridges and fast load times.
Sonic Adventure was optical media because Dreamcast. And most of those weren't fucking HUGE. The Sonic Adventure maps are pretty big, and not fun to move around.
>They did away with them in the sequel
>Probably to save space though
>>3068905
>Dream Land sucks
>The Dark Matter Trilogy sucksI honestly kinda agree that they aren't the funnest games ever, but they have the same amount of polish, variety, and inspiration put in them. I always just considered them "not my style" rather than "bad".
>>3070220
I totally agree about S3&K being overrated - but I always assumed that CD and 2 had such different directions that fans of one universally hated the other.
What do they share for you that makes them both better than 3?
>>3074249
Don't think speed was the problem as much as the linearity. Or the combination of speed, platforming, and linearity.
>>3074849
Sonic games by nature are pretty linear.
>>3074835
>considering something good but not to your tastes
Woah, when did /vr/ actually mature into a rational person?
>>3074852
In progress? Yes.
In level traversal? Depends on the game, but mostly no.
>Inspired by having to rerun 1-1 of Mario each play-through, we wanted to create a game you could speed through, where a skilled player could blast through a level much more quickly then a novice
Sonic usually has 2 paths, the top quick but dangerous path, and the bottom, safe but slow route barring more "set-piece"-y stages like Marble Zone. You'll notice in some zones falling off the top path leads to the bottom path (Green Hill) whereas others (Marble Garden) it's full of more traps and spikes.
Then there's Sonic CD which had the whole exploration aspects tacked on as well, and two ways to attain the "best" ending, which literally turns the entire game into "grabs lots of rings and speed to finish" or "slowly explore level and find warps and robotisers".
>>3071267
its not, you're safe
>>3075241
It's more that /vr/ used to mostly be rational people but in the past year there are now only a few of them left.
>>3068776
Not sure if trolling
>SOOOOPAAAH SOOOONEEEEECK RAAAYYYYSAAAAAAN
>>3072928
>calling the original japanese OST "european"
Retard.
>>3068881
>look at my wrong opinions
>>3069270
Second
>>3070174
Why does everyone hate 3d blast so much?
I didn't think it was the best sonic game ever but it was a fun game, albeit movement was a little wonky but once you got used to it, it wasn't that bad.
>>3075557
Camera is a little annoying.
Controls aren't intutive as is a given for isometric games, especially fails as its a reflex based game.
Forced to kill enemies/collect birds to progress.
Special stages too easy to get to/complete.
Can't even go super when you get all emeralds.
Music is sort of generic compared to most Sonic.
Late stages are rushed with lame reasons.I don't even hate it. It's not one of my favourites but I'd play it if I ever get the urge. These are just some complaints I've observed/heard.
>>3075779
You know what, I agree with all of that anon.
Not really a bad game, just maybe misused ambition for a "3d" sonic game
Why does everyone hate the hub worlds in SA1? There's literally nothing wrong with them. Also, this is the worst pre-2000 mainline Sonic game (if you don't count 3D Blast), but it's not bad, and I personally think that roughly 66 percent of the game is good. By the way, SA2 isn't retro.
Sonic 3D Blast and Shuffle exist but sure, why not?
>>3075779
The true final boss is a chore as well. It takes a minimum of four minutes and a fuckton of that time is spent dodging easy attacks.
>>3077298
>SA2 isn't retro
It was released on the Dreamcast. Take a vacation.
>>3068724
Main series? Yes.
In general? No.
>>3068726
Sonic R is a blast.
Sonic Labyrinth is objectively the worst Sonic game though.
>>3068834
Because it's easy to get internet laughs if you make fun of Sonic. Plus he's a huge Nintoddler and they've been desperately trying to make people that Sonic was never good so they can retroactively win their playground arguments.
It's pathetic really
>>3069276
First of all, some minor issues:
>Knuckles and Rouge react strangely to certain surfaces, like ramps and areas with a lot of edges.
I'm not saying this wasn't a problem in SA1, but it's still a problem here regardless.
>It's too easy to accidentally activate hint monitors, which lower your score for the next emerald piece/gate key/Chaos Emerald you get.
It's an incredibly minor thing, but it kind of sucks when it happens. An easy way to work around this would be to have hint monitors activated with Y instead of X and B.
Now for the major problems:
>The radar only detects one item at a time.
This particular aspect is only a problem in the three HUGE levels, but in those three levels, it's a HUGE issue. For the other six levels, which are smaller, this actually saves them from becoming too short. A good way to justify theoretically having an all-detecting radar in the huge levels and a single-detecting radar in the closed-in levels would be to say something like, the radar's pulses or whatever get mixed up in close quarters, so it can only detect multiple items at once in the wide-open levels.
And here's another issue:
>The radar is extremely vague. It only has three color fonts, as opposed to five in SA1, and it only has three pulse-rates, as opposed to SA1's seamless, constantly-changing pulses, and there's no indicator telling you if you're right on the item. Once you reach the radar's third and final color-font and pulse-rate, there is absolutely no way to know where the item actually is. It's just one big, vague area that the radar indicates is where the location of the item is, and you just have to keep searching for it until you find it. It's especially awful when you have to dig for it.
I know they added an exclamation point in the GameCube version to tell when you're right on an item, but they didn't change ANYTHING else about the radar to make it better.
Finally,
>The camera is awful.
I swear it's worse than SA1 at times.
Also, Mad Space sucks.
>>3068724
Maybe non-spinoff games. But just in general, no.
2 > 3&K > CD > 1 > &T > TT > 2SMS > TA > 1SMS > 3DB > TSP > R > A = A2 > tF > KC >>> L
If you disagree you're okay I guess, wanna get a coffee on tuesday?
Are you sappy fucks gonna answer my god damn question or not?
>>3072271
>>3079748
Yes.
>>3072271
Significantly better than the default cables
>>3073049
Fuck off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYW7-hNXZlM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86CLdIFdcs8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAh_mF4XDZQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2OI0OA_5uk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paG4h2WMAyA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6ooLCCVVqY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZppmoy-uYk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRRHP1DfC_Y
Stop pretending like Sonic CD's US soundtrack doesn't have any good tracks.
>edgy rock
Holy shit. You can't be this retarded. How are any of the rock-based tracks "edgy" in the slightest? Is it because you're a mindless, bandwagon-jumping weeaboo looking for even the most minuscule opportunity to call something "edgy" because ROCK = EDGY AMIRIGHT GUYS??????////??//
>>3079874
This. The jp tracks my be more fitting and arguably superior, but the us stuff is pretty good too, it doesn't deserve the flak it gets.
Also, you're cute when you're mad:3
>>3079874
>Rock
>American Sonic
>Not edgy
They literally tried to rebrand him as a "bad dude with an attitude" because they know amerifats eat that shit up like deep friend corn syrup. America style Sonic is pleb tier nostalgia faggot diarrhoea and shouldn't exist. Go ahead, call me a weeabo just because I like the not shit version, as if just because I like the original source soundtrack it means I don't think Japan is one of the most overhyped piece of shit for modern hipsters only because we've been so underexposed to prior to WW2 thus making a culture that is basically just smarter Chinese people (featuring too many men, too much racism, food that is repurposed dirt, and prior to WW2 so retarded they hadn't even invented glass).
I'm summation, kill yourself.
>>3072271
Yeah, they're fine. The boxes are only superior in that they have scanline generators/one that has a scart conversion. Also, some games don't support VGA and the boxes have an av switch to get those games running.
Hydro thunder is one of the only games I can think of that I would want to play that doesn't support VGA, so I guess just weigh up your options.
>>3079917
You are retarded
>>3079917
>They literally tried to rebrand him
I don't see any other way they would do it, so I'm confused why you felt the need to throw a redundant word into your sentence. Does your fucking junior high school teacher tell you that every fucking sentence needs the word "literally" in it or something?
>>3080535
Do junior high schools even exist anymore?
>>3081079
No they just go straight from grade 5 to 9, obviously.
>>3081094
I'm talking about middle schools labeled as "junior high schools". In my area, they're all just called middle schools now.
One of the worst games I've ever played, even Labyrinth wasn't that bad
>>3081123
You Americans go through three schools? No wonder your kids have fucked up social lives.
>>3081229
>spending seven hours a day for 37 weeks in school over the span of three buildings as opposed to spending seven hours a day for 37 weeks in school over the span of two buildings is terrible for the social well-being of children
What.
>>3080535
You literally are a moron. It's there because he's trying to make the point they consciously tried to remarket him, not just doing it in an accidental or incidental way.
