SaGa
Images are sometimes not shown due to bandwidth/network limitations. Refreshing the page usually helps.
You are currently reading a thread in /vr/ - Retro Games
You are currently reading a thread in /vr/ - Retro Games
So I'm a pretty big fan of FF7 and I love everything about it, but while looking up some similar games to try out I came across this series. Looking at some short clips of this game it looks very similar to my idea of a great JRPG. The thing I want to know is, is this a good place to start? Or should I try some of the older games first?
There's absolutely no tutorial, there's no direction and to be honest - I don't think this is a good game. Try Legend of Dragoon
>>3065997
Its crap. Play Star Ocean the Second Story if you haven't yet.
this thread is nothing but terrible opinions.
Saga Frontier is probably my favorite RPG on the PSX, and it's up against the likes of Vagrant Story and Wild Arms, so you better believe it's a pretty fucking good game.
>>3066047
So how about answering the thread then?
>>3065997
play saga frontier 2 instead
Play SaGa Frontier or Romancing SaGa 3 first.
SaGa Frontier 2 has casual filters that can necessitate that you start over the entire fucking game because you can't beat the last dungeon.
SaGa Frontier on the other hand, only takes about 6-10 hours per character to finish, and it's not nearly as big a deal if you end up stuck on a boss fight that you can't win.
Learning how to plan your playthrough itself is actually one of the hooks of the series, it can be very difficult if you're not going to git gud.
Basically; Minstrel Song takes about 24-30 hours per playthrough, RS3 is similar, but SF only takes 10. Beating SF2 in it's entirety on the other hand, takes like 40+ hours, never mind if you actually get into it, you could end up pushing 80
All SaGa games give you the opportunity to fuck your playthrough too, so start with SaGa Frontier and play it safe.
>>3066193
What about the older games like Final Fantasy Legends on the Game Boy? Are those worth bothering with? Thanks for the advice anyway.
>>3066205
Sure, but they're pretty strange and simplistic and don't totally reflect what the rest of the series is like. You'll have fun with them I'm sure if you like games like that.
>>3065997
>but while looking up some similar games to try out I came across this series
SaGa is completely different from FF, the only FF game that is similar is FF2, mostly because it was a prototype for the SaGa series.
Frontier is one of the best starting points for newcomers because while it has all the basic mechanics of the modern SaGa system it isn't that full of traps for casuals and the difficulty is not high unless you really don't know how or want to learn how to work with the game's system.
Keep in mind though that SaGa is not a plot heavy series, at least not in the traditional sense, the exposition of plot is shown directly through actions, the cutscenes are minimal and short, so if you go in expecting melodramatic, overly longu cutscenes like FFVII you'll be very disappointed, also, in the case of Frontier a lot of the plot and lore is actually divided and fragmented in each of the 7 characters' stories, for instance while playing as Emilia you'll learn some stuff about Lute's plot that you won't learn by playing his story, not even by having him in your party, a lot of information about other characters is also very well hidden and require you to experiment with having certain party members at a certain place during a certain quest, it's basically a giant puzzle.
Basically>>3066193 sums it up pretty nicely.
one last thing since you look interested in the GB SaGa, SaGa 2 and 3 got some really good remakes on the DS, especially SaGa 3, so if you feel that the games are too old or archaic for you you might want to try the remakes, the original SaGa 3 is also pretty crappy and kind of a black sheep of the series since for some reason it isn't even a real SaGa games in terms of mechanics, but rather a FF game in disguise.
If you are afraid play the Gameboy games first, or at least the first two Final Fantasy Legend games since they contain SaGa like mechanics. The best part is that they were designed for a long plane ride so they take about 12 hours to complete so they are fairly short JRPG's but remember Final Fantasy Legend 1 came out December 1989 so it may have some archaic mechanics but it is still an enjoyable game.
Though I find it funny to ask for a good place to start the SaGa series due to the fact that ever since the Romancing SaGa games they tend to not hold your hand with direction and let you mess around as you see fit with trying to tackle quests and let you get lost. If you are interested in SaGa Frontier go ahead, but realize you will have to get accustomed to character growth mechanics due to the four races developing differently, how to obtain skills for all races, figuring out how to combo, to learning not to grind due the battle rank.
SaGa Frontier is among my favorites during that generation along side Hybrid Heaven.
>>3066037
SaGa never holds your hand, the games expect you to read the instruction booklet and experiment with the game.
>there's no direction
Most of the routes do have direction. Hell Blue's quest you know what you have to do and know of the magic lands. The only route without a real direction is Lute's route. The SaGa series often gives you an objective but it doesn't put you on rails so you can just be guided to the objective. Often times you have to stumble around in order to complete it if it is a place to go to or a person you must talk to.
>>3066214
>and don't totally reflect what the rest of the series is like
Yes they do. SaGa doesn't have levels or experience points. Most of the games take on a natural growth progression system. Not only that but some games do have weapon durability after the Gameboy series, how equipment is handled with a certain amount of slots and you can equip multiple weapons to a single character, and the first game has lives for your characters so there is perma-death which gets re-introduced as life points in Romancing SaGa.
Hell SaGa Frontier is a mix of the Gameboy games and the Romancing SaGa games.
>>3066415
Is english not your first language or something
nothing you said there refutes my statement, and some of it isn't even correct, not all of the first 3 SaGa games even have natural stat progression. I know in at least one of them you have to buy stats with money.
>>3066415
He's right, the GB games are nothing like the Romancing series, they're completely different, not to mention that they're still linear games whereas all the rest is non linear.
SaGa Frontier is so far the only game that as you said is a mix of the first and second trilogy, and even then the GB games are still different, they have weapon durability, in the first one humans get stats through money, martial arts work differently, the only thing that is almost identical in Frontier is how monsters work.
>>3066417
While espers are a bit more random, they have a bit more of a "natural" progression. You are focusing on the humans too much.
>>3066424
> in the first one humans get stats through money
Espers become stronger naturally through battle. There are three races don't focus on a single one. Not only that they can gain skills randomly after battle. Sure it isn't gaining a skill mid battle with a chance but it COULD be a pre-cursor to sparking.
> they have weapon durability
Same with SaGa Frontier 2 and Unlimited Saga.
>martial arts work differently
Everything had to be equipped, but there are more similarities with character growth mechanics, and how you are able to equip characters, and yet there are lives that gets revamped later on.
SaGa isn't about being linear or non-linear. SaGa Frontier 2 came after the Romancing SaGa trilogy and SaGa Frontier and you were restricted to various points of time and even then the selected maps those plot points offered you. Due to that being a non-linear or open world series isn't the most defining part of the series but rather its take of character growth mechanics due to all the games made by the SaGa team uses wildly different mechanics from what is traditionally used in the genre.
To say that such games aren't a representation of the series when three out of the seven retro SaGa games include races that have their own growth mechanics is simple misinformation, especially when it is a series that has always strayed away from such traditional mechanics.
>>3066443
I said that they don't totally reflect the rest of the series. That is a statement built upon the negation of an absolute statement. Which is to say that nothing I said is in contradiction with the fact that the games might PARTIALLY reflect the rest of the series, just not TOTALLY.
Learn to read before you go spinning off an argument against some statements that you simply imagine are contradictory to your perspective.
>>3066443
>There are three races don't focus on a single one
It was just an example, Humans already changed their growth mechanics after the first game anyway.
>Same with SaGa Frontier 2 and Unlimited Saga.
And Minstrel Song too, and all of those games had different weapon durability mechanic, not only compared to the GB trilogy, but between themselves too.
>Everything had to be equipped
That wasn't the point, martial arts work as a normal item and don't have anything special besides their gimmick of getting stronger the less uses they have, Martial Arts from the Romancing series on have their own roles as they are basically a monk's toolset whereas in the GB games they were simply another weapon.
>SaGa isn't about being linear or non-linear.
Literally one of the biggest point Kawazu made about SaGa was about having as much freedom as possible, non linearity is a super big deal since the only non linear game from the GB games was Frontier 2, and it still allowed you to follow the story however you wanted instead of putting you on rails.
>is simple misinformation
It isn't, especially when out of eleven games only 4 have such gimmick, not to mention the fact that again, they're linear and don't have 90% of the mechanics of the modern games starting from Romancing SaGa, besides, since the series always changed a lot there isn't really any true representative.
In any case, good news everyone, the Romancing SaGa 2 remake is coming out on the 24th.
Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHAAi-SONEk
Official website
http://www.jp.square-enix.com/romasaga2/
>>3066465
>disgusting mobage graphics
yeah no thanks
>>3066474
The only new graphics are the backgrounds, everything else is from the original game, you can even choose between static and animated enemy sprites, and the animations look pretty good so far.
I'd say it's a great deal for just 2200 yen, you get the definitive version of the SNES original with bugfix, rebalance, all the content from the old mobile release and New Game+ too, much better than most of the classic FF remakes, at least you're getting the same game with a few "new" quests and a slight graphical overhaul.
>>3066465
>It was just an example, Humans already changed their growth mechanics after the first game anyway.
It just seemed like natural growth wasn't present in the first game.
>And Minstrel Song too, and all of those games had different weapon durability mechanic, not only compared to the GB trilogy, but between themselves too.
Only Romancing SaGa Minstrel Song did which lowered durability depending upon the skill used rather than always lowering upon a usage. Though as you know the mechanics of the games develop over time, just because the natural growth progression mechanic isn't the same as it is now doesn't mean it hasn't always been present, just like the instances with durability.
>Literally one of the biggest point Kawazu made about SaGa was about having as much freedom as possible, non linearity is a super big deal since the only non linear game from the GB games was Frontier 2, and it still allowed you to follow the story however you wanted instead of putting you on rails.
It is more of letting the player have their own choices, not just exploration, but party building. That is why you are able to pick and choose who is in your party or how to develop them through their actions. You can say that could be possibly we Final Fantasy 1 is the way it is, so if you wanted to make a party of four white mages you can, or why Final Fantasy II is the way it is so if you wanted a mage you made one through your actions. Such as the Gameboy games that if you wanted a party of four monsters you could roll with that. While the more open world design is an extension of that for sure, the base was around the characters at the start and how the player goes about them.
>and it still allowed you to follow the story however you wanted instead of putting you on rails.
Though it is even more limited in selection than a Megaman games initial robot masters screen without the benefits of gaining an item that could be used for an enemy weakness later on.
>>3066509
>It just seemed like natural growth wasn't present in the first game.
I guess the closest thing to natural growth was the Esper's growth, but it's debatable anyway, and it was the first game in the series, a lot of the design decisions were a bit questionable, mostly because Kawazu himself had no clear idea on what to put in the game and how to make it work.
>Only Romancing SaGa Minstrel Song did which lowered durability depending upon the skill used rather than always lowering upon a usage.
Unlimited had its own gimmicks about that, not to mention that it gives you the choice of messing around with weapons' durability personally instead of resorting to smiths, and again, GB SaGa had their own convoluted rules about durability, all weapons are replenished if you stay at an inn, equipping weapons on mechs halves their max durability permanently and so on, SaGa Frontier 2 had Chips currency so in that game you actually want weapons to break compared to the others, they all do their own thing.
>without the benefits of gaining an item that could be used for an enemy weakness later on.
This is just plain wrong, Wil's storyline lets you begin Rich's generation before ending Wil's generation, same with Ginny's generation, you can totally do that as long as you know what you need to do and where to go. New Game+ gives you even more freedom since you can literally go to the final boss right away, hell you don't even need to do a lot of the scenarios to finish the game during the normal game.
>>3066410
>it isn't that full of traps for casuals
Are you sure we're talking about the same game? I pretty clearly remember getting fucked by bats just for following T260G's plotline, or stumbling into the bio labs because that looked like it was where I was supposed to go during a different plotline, or going into a tomb and accidentally triggering a fight with Dead Knights effectively at the beginning of the game.
>>3066626
>I pretty clearly remember getting fucked by bats just for following T260G's plotline
Well, Abyss Bat is pretty cheap I'll give you that, but why have you been killing so many bats in there anyway?
>stumbling into the bio labs
>going into a tomb and accidentally triggering a fight with Dead Knights
Well, those are simply a consequence of the freedom of the game, they're not traps designed to specifically fuck you over, they're more likehappy incidents.
I mean, Romancing SaGa games had parts that are evidently designed to fuck you up for the hell of it with seemingly no safe exit, Algernon and the Dragon Rulers in RS3 or Dantarg in RS2 for instance.
>>3066643
>but why have you been killing so many bats in there anyway?
Because SF has confusing maps and you get hounded by them nonstop because they respawn every time you enter a map while you're just trying to figure out where the fuck you're supposed to go?
>>3066508
>new game+
disgusting.
>>3066728
>bats
you can literally get like 3 different pieces of sonic nullifying equipment in the other dungeon in that exact same region
>dead knights
literally the first thing I do after assembling a party, is run around for a little bit grabbing treasures to equip myself, then go straight to Sei's tomb and fight Dead Knights to spark techniques and get their loot (mostly just the mizukagami) It's especially not a big deal when you can just grab Rouge or be Blue and implode them.
you need to learn to run away from encounters and avoid enemies on the field map while grabbing treasures to actually fill your wallet and equip slots.
but then, you can find a DuelGun and HyperScale in the wrecked ship at shingrow and sell them at scrap and have like 5000 credits at the start of the game just for being able to fucking dodge encounters.
The game literally lets you quick save anywhere and reload that data in like a second.
it's not that hard.
>>3066741
Yeah, I know that NOW, but that doesn't really change that my first play through of SF was fucking terrible.
>>3066760
>that doesn't really change that my first play through of SF was fucking terrible.
Someone had a first playthrough of a SaGa game that wasn't terrible? Sounds new to me.
>>3066760
It's a short game meant for replays and experimentation. My first like three stabs at SaGa Frontier 2 were complete clusterfucks. That game is fantastic though.
>>3065997
>Or should I try some of the older games first?
I apologize in advance for the sheer level of autism that this thread is going to attract, OP. Just ignore any and all posts accompanied by moe and you should be fine.
To answer your question, SaGa Frontier is a perfectly fine place to start. It's just mechanically dense, so the learning curve is going to take a while. Most other SaGa games share similar or identical mechanics, but SF1 is probably the easiest game in the series.
The game is divided into several different scenarios, with some scenarios enforcing limits on which characters you can recruit along the way. Emelia's scenario is a good place to start since most of the characters you can recruit are human, so you won't have to juggle all the different mechanics related to how the different races "level up" or use abilities.
>>3066787
>I apologize in advance for the sheer level of autism that this thread is going to attract, OP.
In what form? What do you expect the autists to say?
>>3066801
He's going to complain about people posting fanart of the games from Pixiv and using the japanese abbreviations of the games, he's the true autist.
>>3066806
Okay wow! Yeah, I love the SaGa games but the threads that go on here are a little much for me.
>>3066823
>but the threads that go on here are a little much for me.
You know what they say,if you can't handle the heat get out of the kitchen.
>>3066827
Yeah that's why I don't bother with them much. I don't find there's a ton to talk about at this point anyways.
>>3066831
I personally don't know what to talk about for video games unless I am either arguing about the games mechanics/level design or giving tips on over coming certain challenges in a game like boss strategies.
Man, I miss the SaGA threads. I was side-learning so much shit about the series. But I guess it doesn't have that many fans to keep it alive, even in /vr/.
I'm currently considering Minstrel Song, which will hopefully be less broken than RS1.
>>3066938
>But I guess it doesn't have that many fans to keep it alive
Well, that is questionable, but I stopped making them because there was too much hostility within and outside the threads.
You still have the links to the pastebin I hope.
>>3066862
There's a lot more to them than that, but it's what a lot of the talk around here boils down to. I find I have even less to really say about RPGs than anything else.
>>3066938
>I'm currently considering Minstrel Song, which will hopefully be less broken than RS1.
The mechanics are one of the most developed in the series.
The intentional slow pacing (e.g glacial walk speed, no speeding up battle animations or skipping cutscenes etc) is about the only thing that bothers me about it and I hope that PS2 emulators can eventually start running it at like 3x-4x speed
>>3066978
>glacial walk speed
To this day I still can't fathom why they did that, you could run at sanic speed since Frontier, why the hell did they decide to not put a run option is beyond me, maybe they wanted to stay true to the original game in that sense, but even the WC enhanced port had a new running function.
Oh well, the game's so good on almost everything else, so I can't really complain.
>>3066410
>so if you go in expecting melodramatic, overly longu cutscenes like FFVII you'll be very disappointed
Welp, guess I'll be disappointed since the melodramatic, overly longu cutscenes are literally the only thing I liked about FF7.
>>3067270
You should stay far away from SaGa then.
>>3067289
WHATEVA
I DO WHAT I WANT
>>3065997
Salsa Frontier
>>3066047
SaGa Frontier has been my favorite game since the first day i rented it. Multi storyline games always give me a boner and getting to play as a robot superhero and a mystic sent my dick in to the void.
>>3067289
It's a meme you dip.
>>3067753
I agree, being able to be a god damn robot as the main character is awesome. Keep your elves and humans, I want to be something entirely different now.
>>3068580
>being able to be a god damn robot as the main character is awesome
Obligatory
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAqB1lOiH6A
>>3068594
That game's OST was just fucking sex.
Like shit, even the remixes are just so damn good.
>>3065997
Frontier is a fine place to start. Fair warning, like others have said, there is a learning curve. If you're willing to invest some time into learning the game's mechanics and some trial and error, it's a very deep game with lots of replay value.
And as an aside, the atmosphere of the game alone is top-notch and is a mix of fantasy and science fiction I've yet to see in a game yet.
>>3066770
TLR and the GB games weren't all that bad on a first playthrough.
>>3069368
>If you're willing to invest some time into learning the game's mechanics and some trial and error, it's a very deep game with lots of replay value.
>And as an aside, the atmosphere of the game alone is top-notch and is a mix of fantasy and science fiction I've yet to see in a game yet.
Sounds like FF8 except not a complete trainwreck.
>>3066770
To be honest I went into SFII completely blind and still managed to finish it. Then again it's one of the few SaGa that doesn't punish you for grinding, instead it just gives you very little chances to do so.
And I abused the fuck out of them.
>>3069368
>the atmosphere of the game alone is top-notch and is a mix of fantasy and science fiction I've yet to see in a game yet.
Well, when you play a game with samurai with jeans that cut stuff with steel pipes, robots and monsters that turn into computer programs to destroy world destroying spaceships' AI, undead kings, transhumanist scientists, bunny girls and skeletons that do lap dance in the same night club, super models literally going Rambo, vampire lesbians, mean interdimensional cops and tokusatsu heroes living all in the same world(s) you know you're dealing with something quite far from the norm.
Then again, the franchise as a whole always had a touch of crazy in more senses than one.
>>3070882
Brevity is the essence of wit darling.
>>3070889
This ain't twitter son.
Let me as verbose and longwinded as possible.
>>3070892
I'm just gently asking you to not write like shit.
>>3070942
Who are you, the 4chan post police?
I'm sure as hell not going to a perfectly fine post for you.
>>3070945
I sincerely hope English is not your first language.
>>3070947
BEEEOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWW
You hear that as you see red and blue paint everything around you. You are now being pulled over by the 4chan police. You have broken a personal rule of his and it is this officers duty to let you know about it.
Maybe in a few years you'll have a clean record, but for now your infraction is recorded in the 4chan police data base.
>>3070952
you know anon I think you're okay
>>3070014
>Sounds like FF8 except not a complete trainwreck.
Not sure what you mean. The junction system is much easier to understand than Frontier's battle system. Or are you refffering to the story/atmosphere of VIII?
>>3071001
All of it actually. And it's not so much that the junction system is hard to understand, it's that it's so extreme flawed it makes me wonder how Squaresoft thought it was a good idea in the first place. It's a boring grind whether you draw or refine, makes all your characters interchangeable blank slates, prevents you from casting your best spells if you want to keep your stats and is needless non-intuitive (as in it seems complicated at first, but all you really need to do is put in big numbers of spells to get big stats and yet it takes an eternity to set up optimally) not to mention is extremely easily broken in general.
>>3071053
The cost of lower stats isn't an okay price to pay to use magic?
I don't know. I enjoy FF8.
>>3070952
>You will immediately cease and not continue to access the site if you are under the age of 18.
>>3072239
>Have a license for that?
>Looks like it is expired.
>I'm taking you in for posting without a license.
>>3068594
Too bad she looks like a Mecha-Duck in the game pixels.
>>3067753
Live-A-Live had better QUALITY per storylines. Only T260, Red, and Asellus' scenarios didn't feel incomplete and halfassed.
>>3073654
Not just Live a Live, but RnH too.
>>3073665
>http://fantasyanime.com/valhalla/rudra_interv.htm
It's called Treasure of Rudra.
>>3070882
>>3073683
>poledancing skeleton
