I've noticed that the "Ultima" series has some very, very distinct similarities to Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy. Is this possibly the origin of JRPGs (and WRPGs too)? If this is so, why do these games not get recognized as much for such an overwhelming achievement?
>>3047201
People forgot about western retro games outside of the Atari in general. Nintendo (and to a lesser extent Sega) has done a good job of preserving interest in Japanese retro games, but Western companies haven't done the same. Most people can't name 5 games from the Commodore 64 and Amiga, excluding sequels.
Back in the 80s, Yuji Horii and Koichi Nakamura were these bros at this company called Enix. Yuji liked Ultima (specifically Ultima 3), but Koichi liked Wizardry.
They got together like two potheads and said, what if, like, we took the overworld exploration from Ult, and like, combined it with the combat of Wiz? That'd be fuckin rad broooooo....
The result was Dragon Quest.
>>3047201
>why do these games not get recognized as much for such an overwhelming achievement?
They kinda do. Richard Garriott, the maker of the Ultima games, is kind of a big deal.
You don't hear about it much anymore because the number of people interested is those games is now low, but still.
>>3047217
>Richard Garriott, the maker of the Ultima games, is kind of a big deal.
When your latest big thing was an interview with Spoony and you're in charge of a project that nobody has any belief in, well, no.
>>3047201
>why do these games not get recognized as much for such an overwhelming achievement?
Because they're excrutiating to play today. That was one of the beauties of Dragon Quest - it took the basic template from these games and refined into an accessible and engaging experience (pc fags will call it dumbing things down for consoles).
People still respect Wizardry and Ultima, but they usually talk about the later games like the Cosmic Forge trilogy and Ultima IV-VII, because nobody under the age of 40 wants to bother playing the original games anymore.
>>3047219
There is no markets for the games he used to do, so he has to try new shits, and he's not particularly good at those shit I'd agree.
>>3047221
>nobody under the age of 40 wants to bother playing the original games anymore.
>implying U4 or Cosmic Forge are still playable
>>3047201
Yes. JRPGs were pretty much streamlined versions of Ultima and Wizardry which is why it cracks me up when people think the definition of JRPG and WRPG comes to how they play and not where the games are from.
>>3047245
Come on, there are clear distinctions, at least for modern games. The JRPG took its own route after a while.
>60-year-old: Akalabeth and Oubliette.
>50-year-old: Llylgamyn trilogy and Age of Darkness
>40-year-old: Cosmic Forge and Age of Enlightenment
>30-year-old: Wiz 8 and Pagan
>20-year-old: Is this related to Magicka or some shit? Anyway, this is a perfect example of rape culture and I am triggered.
>13-year-old: Throw your old toys in the trash where they belong. Video games are supposed to be Art. It's too deep for you to understand.
>>3047201
The early series was a pretty big deal in its time, but the series overall didn't keep up with innovations and trends put forth by other series. Each new Ultima game was pretty much a rehash of the last.
I still play Ultima III with the DOS enhancement patch, but that's it. I really hated how Ultima IV and onward dropped the class and race-based mechanics. The only character whose class you were able to choose was the Avatar's.
>>3047245
>the definition of JRPG and WRPG comes to how they play and not where the games are from.
The JRPG genre basically sprang entirely from the changes the Dragon Quest made to the Western CRPG formula, but not all Japanese RPGs are JRPGs (King's Field, Lunatic Dawn), and not all Western RPGs are WRPGs (Anachronox, Millenium). Automatically calling all RPGs from Japan JRPGs is not very useful when discussing actual gameplay mechanics.
>>3047281
>The early series was a pretty big deal in its time, but the series overall didn't keep up with innovations and trends put forth by other series
That is totally untrue.
Ultima 7 is the blueprint for many popular modern WRPGS.
Ultima Underworld basically started 3D games before W3D/Doom
Ultima Underworld was one of the first widely recognized MMOs.
It's almost impossible to understate these games, even if there was other different pc games at the same time. You're wrong as fuck.
>>3047361
Meant to say Online for that last example. That would be the MMORPG one.
From what I can remember, classic CRPGs went out of favor hard and fast in the mid-90s, and everyone was more excited about real-time systems like Diablo and Daggerfall. Ultima VIII didn't live up to the expectations set by VII, and IX was a hot mess. Meanwhile, Fallout 1-2 and Baldur's Gate came along and ushered in an RPG renaissance with a shitload of dialog trees. By the time Wizardry 8 came out, it already felt like a throwback. An excellent game, easily the best in the Wizardry series, but still a throwback. After that, Wizardry and Ultima just weren't a part of the gaming landscape anymore (with the sole exception of Ultima Online).
>>3047281
>dropped the class and race
There's always U3, and it even has a cool NES port. People who liked Final Fantasy might like this too.
>>3047361
Ultima 7 is just 6 made worse in nearly every aspect. That's where innovation for the sake of innovation gets you.
>>3047530
That is a very uncommon opinion. Even Richard Garriott thinks U7 is his best work.
>>3047219
>Spoony
http://spoonyexperiment.com this?
whats this blogger supposed to be renowed for?
this site is just a sequence of macro images / "memes" more boring than browsing 4chans /v/
>>3047620
That's a sign for how low LB has fallen.
People like Warren Spector were more important in the big picture.
>>3047530
I do think U6 looks and plays better than U7, but U7 did a much better job of basically everything else.
>>3047209
Shadow of the Beast
Platoon
er...... you're right.
>>3047620
You are right to identify it as garbage.
>>3047209
Most people couldn't name 5 games for a platform they aren't interested in. I was surprised to find out how unpopular the Euro home computers were. C64 was the best selling one with 17 million and is leading by a large margin. I'm surprised anyone remembers them.
>>3047808
Not even Turrican? Or any PnC like Indiana Jones and Monkey Island?
>>3047201
The Japanese were big fans of WRPG. Obviously, Dragon Quest and FF are very influenced by Ultima and Phantasy Star is basically Wizardry.
Both series got some titles/ports exclusive to Japan. Wizardry got 5 games on the GB/C alone.
Have you ever tried playing Wizardry or the early Ultimas? They're an exercise in masochism.
>>3047818
>Phantasy Star is basically Wizardry.
How do reach such conclusions?
>>3047217
>They kinda do. Richard Garriott, the maker of the Ultima games, is kind of a big deal.
Is this 1988?
>>3047424
>From what I can remember, classic CRPGs went out of favor hard and fast in the mid-90s
I agree. CRPGs smack of Apple IIs, 5.25" floppies, and Iron Maiden. They didn't fit into the brave new world of 90s CD-ROM multimedia antics.
>>3047820
Ultima is hardly masochistic except for 2 and 8.
Even Wizardry aside from 4 isn't as hard as people make it.
>>3047820
Admittedly it's easier to try them nowadays with emulation and GameFAQs.
>>3047829
>Wizardry
>not masochistic
I did try out the C64 version of W1 on VICE once and I could not imagine how anyone in the 80s actually had the patience for this shit. The load time alone is enough to be headache-inducing. And that's factoring in how the C64 port had an improved, simplified interface over the Apple II original.
>>3047430
Ultima 3 and IV had 8-bit ports that reportedly were very good.
The C64 and IBM ports of Wizardry came out in 1988, years after the Apple versions and aside from making the interface a little easier to use, they were still the same primitive early 80s black background/wireframe shit.
One of the things that killed Wizardry in the long run was failing to update the game visuals.
>>3047839
Don't play the IBM ports btw they fucked up the game mechanics.
Ok Wizardry is crude and painful to play but Ultima isn't like that. It always had full screen graphics and music (on C64 and other platforms that could support music).
>>3047843
I meant 8-bit consoles, in this case the NES and SMS. Should have specified.
>>3047832
You know if you're playing on VICE, you can just disable True Drive emulation for instant load time.
>>3047847
That doesn't work on a lot of games especially if they need low-level drive access. Maniac Mansion for example requires you to have TDA on VICE enabled.
C64 ports of Ultima actually do support REUs and C128/1571 so make sure to play them on x128.
>>3047850
I know. I have tried out Maniac Mansion on VICE and it's easily better than the IBM version in the sound department, also there's no copy protection codes and the scrolling/sprite animation is faster and more fluid.
The load times are a bitch though. C64 MM does a _lot_ of disk access. You need to load rooms almost constantly while on the IBM version you just load something once and never have to do it again for the rest of the game.
That's the difference between 64k and 640k of memory. :-D
>>3047839
When they upgraded the graphics in 6 it was a step for the worse. Instead of pure and simple wireframes you had the same ugly castle wall no matter whether you were in a castle, a swamp, a forest or a ship. Controls were also fucked up.
I think failing to upgrade the gameplay was a bigger issue. 2 and 3 were just addons with new monsters and some new gimmicks in the dungeon. You couldn't even play them without importing a party from 1.
Ultima didn't make graphical leaps before 6 either but at least there was development.
>>3047851
I actually would recommend the C64 Wizardrys over the other computer versions because they look nicer than the Apple II versions and have a better interface. C64 emulation is also vastly superior to Apple II emulation.
>>3047863
Compared to the PC98 or X1?
>>3047863
Yah that's funny because the Apple II is a much more primitive computer. You'd think it would be easy as cake to emulate.
I'll take Llylgamyn Saga on PS1, or the NES version at the very least. I don't think I can ever go back to the 80s computer versions of Wizardry.
>>3047873
The Apple II Wizardrys made you type in spell names. On the later computer ports you just get a list of spells and can select them.
>>3047868
You do realize Wizardry has basically become a Japanese game series for the last 20 years right?
>>3047872
That's the Windows port. Have fun getting hold of it nowadays.
>>3047872
See >>3047831
If this was actually in the 80s, you would have no GameFAQs maps, you'd have to draw your own on paper, you'd have to load everything off super-slow floppies, risk accidentally setting your save game disk on a stereo speaker and erasing all your hard work...it could take literal months to beat the thing.
It's 10x easier to play 80s games in 2016 than it was in the 80s. :^)
>>3047875
I assumed he was talking about the original Japanese PC ports of Wizardry from the 80s. Obviously newer Wizardry games like the GBA stuff isn't allowed on /vr/ anyway.
>>3047868
The C64 and IBM port are derived from the same source as the Japanese computer versions. The main difference is the lower resolution and removed language options.
>>3047842
How so?
>>3047876
Oops, wrong screenshot. I meant the PS1 version, which is downloadable everywhere and even the physical copy is still cheap as dirt.
>>3047876
This is the Windows version.
>>3047880
>Obviously newer Wizardry games like the GBA stuff isn't allowed on /vr/ anyway.
The first Japanese-produced Wizardry Gaiden was released way back in 1991 for the urine-colored Game Boy.
The Wizardry Empire games on PS1 are damn good too. But only if you like Wizardry.
>>3047879
I actually had walkthrough maps copied from some magazine. I've never ever lost a save due to mishandling a floppy.
>>3047893
What are you trying to tell me? >>3047872 is taken from Tokugawa corps discussion of those ports.
http://fullmotionvideo.free.fr/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=337
It's really not something the PS1 would have been capable of.
>>3047909
>It's really not something the PS1 would have been capable of.
Nigga please. Apart from the resolution and slightly different interface, the Windows and PS1 versions are practically the same.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vhlfdaXcA0
>>3047920
And that's a big difference.
>Oops, wrong screenshot.
>Oops, wrong screenshot.
>Oops, wrong screenshot.
you're all a bunch of autist bitches.
>>3047839
IBM Wizardry is also CGA-only; it doesn't even support EGA or Tandy. This from a game released in 1988.
Ultima clones were a dime a dozen in the 80s-early 90s. Essentially every game developer of note had either a CRPG or an adventure game.
>>3047824
Frankly, I'm wondering about that myself.
>>3047818
Oh, I forgot James Pond. But I remember that one predominantly because of it's shitiness.
>>3047975
Games like Superfrog and Jame Pond are among the many British Amiga shovelware titles that nostalgic idiots pretend were the greatest games ever made.
>>3047201
>why do these games not get recognized as much for such an overwhelming achievement?
Hi kid. Ultima is very well recognized. Try reading a little first next time before asking questions this retarded.
>>3047818
Fun fact: there was even a published japanese version of Basic D&D (the 64-page book edited by Tom Moldvay in 1981). I don't know anything about this version, except that it has a very cool cover (can't find the pic right now though).
So yeah, they like the western D&D games.
The french and english versions also had some different art inside, not sure why but some of it was kind of cool.
>>3048168
Everyone knows that thanks to Lodoss.
>>3047828
Well SSI was still selling various old school Gold Box series RPGs in the early 90's, so there was still a market for "hardcore" roleplayers.
The nice this is their last such game (FRUA) was basically a "contruction set" which let these kind of games live on thanks to dedicated fanbase. Most of their stuff has been archived here:
http://frua.rosedragon.org
But yeah, the whole 3D games and realtime stuff really messed things up for those of us who prefer the old turn-based model with simpler 2D graphics.
>>3048185
>But yeah, the whole 3D games and realtime stuff really messed things up for those of us who prefer the old turn-based model with simpler 2D graphics.
What messed me up is people confusing visuals with gameplay. You could get 2D and turnbased, or 3D and realtime. Hardly any 3D and turn based out there
>>3048185
Early 90s was still running on the fumes of the 80s. By the time Clinton was president, the Windows/CD-ROM era was in full swing.
>>3047201
>I'm 12
>I'm a troll
Pick one.
>>3047201
OP is right, though, everything the japs accomplished had to be copied from superior western made products.
>>3047930
fun fact: john carmack's very first released game was pretty much just ultima
Ultima clones were great. Everyone should make one in QBASIC or something.
This one's more fancy.
Nahlakh is supposted to be really good.
shareware 1994 game
>>3048408
I'm not sure but it seems he's still selling this game today.
http://www.excelsior-rpg.com/ex1.htm
Dungeon Explorer could have used more work on graphics. It's from 1990 though.
>>3048418
It's basically more of a donation. There is no extra content in the game, you just get a hint book.
Kind of an early case of a retro style indie game.
Only Ultima I had as a teenager was Underworld so that game was quite an influence for me when I later got into the rest of the series.
This guy really, really wanted to make an Ultima game.
>>3048382
Square's Genesis - Beyond the Revelation
Too bad; the Ultima series was one of the crown jewels of computer gaming and Garriot was a god at one time, but it's all long forgotten now and Millenials have likely never heard of him.
>>3047201
No new episode nowaday.
Western rpg evloved too, unlike jrpg.
And finally, they are hard to get into it (complex ui and controle)
>>3047201
DQ was meant to be "Japanese Wizardry". Ultima's influence is probably less direct.
>>3048474
>Millenials have likely never heard of him
You say that like anyone on this board isn't a millennial. I highly doubt we have very many 36+ year olds posting all that much.
>>3048530
Have you seen Wizardry? It's a party based first person dungeon crawler.
To claim the combat system from DQ1 was taken from it is already a stretch. Ultima is a lot closer.
>>3048537
Well, maybe in the very beginning of /vr/ until they all died and the board got taken over by 15 year olds from /v/ who watched an AVGN video.
>>3048185
Holy mother of fuck, I had forgotten all about FRUA. It's still in use?
>>3048541
I'm 40 and I imagine I'm the oldest poster on this board now. There were a few older people but they left i think. This board changed really quick and most regular posters regardless of age left and now its the kiddies in charge now.
>>3048658
>I'm 40
You also live in your mom's basement and have a Rainbow Dash bedspread. I know, I know.
>>3048658
We just finished the discussions that had pent up over the years and took the back seat.
>>3048660
Nice meme.
>>3048382
it honestly sounds like a good beginner game programming project
>>3048382
I once made a snake rpg in the ps2 yabasic.
But pls don't ask about the plot or actual game mechanics or I'll die in shame.
>>3048750
Consider this thread a Cone of Catharsis. Get it off your chest, anon.
>>3048539
>To claim the combat system from DQ1 was taken from it is already a stretch.
>>3047212
The original creators of DQ have acknowledged Wizardry as an inspiration in multiple interviews. DQ is arguably closer to Ultima overall, but the combat is the "first-person" face-on system like Wizardry (as opposed to a top-down tactical system like in Ultima). Final Fantasy was then based off of DQ, except changing the face-on battle view to a side view, which almost all subsequent JRPGs have copied.
>>3048784
>as opposed to a top-down tactical system like in Ultima)
You faced enemies in 1 and 2. Tactical combat only came into play once they introduced parties in 3.
Wizardry only really comes into mind for the larger battles in DQ2 onward where you plan ahead.
Are the original Japanese language interviews available anywhere? I'd like to see the original wording myself instead of third hand traditions.
Megami Tensei is the game where Ultima's influence was minor.
>>3048829
>Tactical combat only came into play once they introduced parties in 3.
And like anon already said, Ultima 3 was the specific one that influenced DQ. Jesus.
>Are the original Japanese language interviews available anywhere? I'd like to see the original wording myself instead of third hand traditions.
If you can read Japanese yourself, then just Google 堀井雄二 中村光一 ウィザードリィ.
There's a bunch of shit here: http://dragonquestage.blog.fc2.com/
>>3048750
>But pls don't ask about the plot or actual game mechanics or I'll die in shame
It's related to pastel-colored equines, isn't it.
>>3048907
Nah I made it in 2001. I was young and foolish then. I thought that a rpg in which picking the attack/magic option would trigger a snake minigame for increased damage/combo was a good idea.
>>3048920
Triggering a snake minigame? That's it? That's what you're ashamed of?
Geez, dude. At least make a game related to a shitty Sonic OC character or something like that.
>>3048931
Have I mentioned the plot - the quest for the Power Apple i.e. red circle, because yabasic is that basic? Every time I remember the wall of scrolling text detailing the "epic" plot in the "intro" I want to kill myself.
>>3048829
What Dragon Quest gets from Wizardry are the stats and a lot of the basic gameplay. I've never played Ultima 3 but I've played Ultima 1 and any connection between that game and DQ is mostly in the overworld. For example, leveling up in Ultima makes enemies stronger and stats are increased by finding signs and buying HP and all sorts of weird things while Wizardry is basically dragon quest "masochistic first person dungeon edition" by comparison. Not that Dragon Quest doesn't borrow a lot of things from Ultima but I think even Dragon Slayer borrowed more.
>>3049451
Wizardry didn't invent stats or leveling.
>>3049592
Are you still not finished translating those Japanese interviews yet? Hurry up anon.
>>3047201
Console plebs that think the history of video games started with Nintendo. Every so called innovation in jrpgs was already on a western rpg before, except perhaps for the anime style that started emerging in the late 4th generation
Reading the thread I remembered an Ultima clone named Legacy of the Ancients. Anyone knows anything about it at all?
>>3049653
>Every so called innovation in jrpgs was already on a western rpg before
I'll agree with that up to a point, but the Japanese contribution was to streamline and refine what was, at the time, a messy and taxing genre that only computer nerds could love.
All the western CRPGs of the early 80s were just shoving pen-and-paper mechanics into a computer program and hoping for the best. It resulted in a lot of unbalanced games with terrible interface decisions like per-character inventories, only allowing one character to enter a shop at a time, constant pooling and divvying up of gold, etc. That made sense in the pen-and-paper world, because each character would be controlled by a different player. But in a computer RPG, one player is controlling the entire party at once.
Japanese developers were able to look at the RPG genre without all the baggage inherited from Dungeons & Dragons, and make design decisions that made the most sense for videogames. That's a pretty big contribution.
>>3049662
>RPG genre without all the baggage inherited from Dungeons & Dragons
Final Fantasy took a ton of monsters from D&D.
Having individual inventories for characters resulted from the way characters were stored. You didn't have a fixed party, you could freely swap them around.
Wizardry allowed you to set passwords per character so that family members or whoever you shared the game with didn't mess with your stuff.
Ultima 4 did away with that stuff because all characters were bound to the progress of your avatar but it's not like many Japanese games still kept them.
>>3048784
>Final Fantasy was then based off of DQ,
Yeah nah. Literally the only thing FF (and Phantasy Star for that matter) got from DQ was that dumbing things to an extent makes games more playable. FF is more Dungeons & Dragons than it is Dragon Quest. Western games influenced most early JRPGs, not just DQ.
>>3049684
>Final Fantasy took a ton of monsters from D&D.
I know, but I was referring to mechanical baggage like the interface and stats and skills, not themes and settings.
And all that other stuff you mentioned is the complexity I was talking about. That kind of stuff was still alive and kicking well into the 1990s, such as in the Gold Box games and Might and Magic.
For better or worse, JRPGs simplified a lot of that stuff to make the games more accessible. The question of whether they dumbed things down too much is debatable.
>>3048784
>which almost all subsequent JRPGs have copied
You're dreaming. First person view was much more popular before the Playstation era.
>>3049702
Final Fantasy was totally in response to Dragon Quest. Sure, they took various themes and settings from Western sources, but Koichi Ishii has come out and said point blank that his and Sakaguchi's goal during development was to be the No. 2 RPG after Dragon Quest, and the side view battle was one of the ways they distinguished themselves.
Don't believe me? Find a weeb and get translating:
石井:坂口が当時言っていたのは｢RPGで確実に二番手を取りに行こう｣っていう話でしたね。ですから､いかに｢ドラクエ｣と変えられるか?という部分がポイントだったんです｡一番大事にしたいのは世界観ありき。その世界観とシナリオ､システムが絡んだ形にすべきだと主張しました。それでまずはキャラクターを通した視点でのサイドビューバトルにするというアイデアを出しました｡次に､情報を多く見せることで､遊ぶユーザーの想像力をより広げらるためにどういう場所でどういう敵と戦っているかを演出するために背景を入れるべきだと考えました｡
>>3049704
Hey, you're right! Thanks for helping me substantiate my original point, which is that Wizardry was just as much an influence on JRPGs as Ultima. Thanks anon.
>>3049702
What games was Xanadu influenced by? Falcom took pictures from Ultima 3 and Druaga was an obvious source but a lot of the content seems unique.
>>3049726
Ultima had first person dungeons before Wizardry.
Wizardry was an influence on Ultima even if LB refutes it whereas the influence of Ultima on Wizardry was limited.
>>3049730
Yoshio Kiya, the programmer/lead designer on Dragon Slayer and Xanadu, mainly wanted to fit as much of his D&D inspirations onto a single floppy as he could when making the latter game: http://shmuplations.com/yoshiokiya/
He likely played a number of Apple II CRPGs (Falcom started as a licensed Apple PC shop) around the period he started programming wargames during his spare time. For that matter he might have played a bunch of wargames/J-PC sims (like those by Koei) and playing tabletop D&D too.
>>3049730
Like the other early Falcom stuff, it was mostly the product of Yoshio Kiya's freaky genius brain.
The action role-playing genre was almost wholly invented in Japan, unless you think Dungeons of Daggorath innovated everything all by itself (and incidentally, the co-creator of Daggorath was a Japanese-American).
The creator of Hydlide said that he never even played any Western rpgs, and just took the medieval fantasy setting from art books.
>>3049739
>The creator of Hydlide said that he never even played any Western rpgs, and just took the medieval fantasy setting from art books.
How did he get the idea to have slimes as the easiest foe?
People always point to the Bubbly Slime in Wizardry as the inspiration for DQ's slimes but Hydlide and Druaga seem like direct ancestors.
>>3049772
Druaga was an admitted influence on Hydlide.
As for Dragon Quest, the original idea for the slime came from Yuji Horii, and he said he took it straight from Wizardry. As for why they're the easiest foe in DQ, that certainly may have come from Druaga and Hydlide, but I've never seen any evidence confirming that connection. It's highly plausible though.
>>3047620
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_DVS_303kQ
>whats this blogger supposed to be renowed for?
His Final Fantasy reviews and his Ultima retrospective.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMbwEAPc2aU
>>3047201
When it comes to Final Fantasy, I watched a documentary about Sakaguchi on youtube, and according to it he was into the Ultima series before creating it. It seems very likely that it gave him the inspiration to create FF.
>>3050206
>It seems very likely that it gave him the inspiration to create FF.
Sakaguchi came up with a rough idea for the game and then he asked Akitoshi Kawazu and Hiromichi Tanaka to join him.
Kawazu, the one who designed the battle system and general game structure said he basically took everything out of Wizardry and DnD, in fact there are many items that even directly reference Wizardry, like the Silver Gauntlet.
Tanaka worked on the general world and exploration system, and you can really see his touch on FF when you play games like FFXI, so the Ultima feeling of the game is probably his rather than Sakaguchi's.
Sakaguchi didn't really do a whole lot in term of game design when it came to FF, the vast majority of the practical work was done by Kawazu and Tanaka, Sakaguchi usually did a rough draft of what he wanted and then worked together with other people, he basically always created a mold for the game for other people to refine, which isn't a negative criticism mind you.
All in all I feel the game to be a hybrid, while DQ was obviously influenced very much by Wizardry to the point of having the same first person view in the battle menu, FF was a bit of both, part of that is because they wanted to stand out and distinguish themselves from DQ and another part because they probably wanted to give a more distinct feeling in general, though this is just how i view things really.
>>3049659
That one's supposed to be really good. There was even a sequel on C64
http://www.lemon64.com/games/details.php?ID=1506
Questron and Phantasie were some other popular ultima-ish RPGs back then also.
>>3050960
Interesting. When I was a kid I played Legacy for a while, although I still didn't know much English so I didn't get very far. Should I restart it? Which version do you recommend? DOS or C64?
>>3048604
yeah it's still got a community that's active. I still make dungeon run modules for fun now and again.
>>3050960
Oddly there's no IBM version of this even though SSI were one of the earliest game devs to release PC compatible stuff.
>>3051202
SSI only released a very few IBM PC ports in the early days and I think they were all in BASIC. Until after 1985, they were almost entirely an 8-bit computer dev.
>>3051181
Any adventures you recommend?
>>3051146
DOS is probably easier to emulate and play.
I tried C64 version and the keyboard mapping is kinda weird. Also, VICE locked up on me during the "demo" (so chances are it will do the same while playing...) Plus it runs from floppy disks (two) and you need a separate disk for saving your game.
There's also an Apple II version, but didn't try that one.
>>3051202
Well there's Questron II for DOS (and also Amiga) but that's the only one from that series. Btw the Amiga graphics aren't much better than the DOS version (pic).
Oddly enough, they also ported Phantasie 1 and 3 to both DOS and Amiga, but not part 2. In this case, the Amiga and C64 versions have noticeably better graphics though. You can compare screenshots here:
http://www.myabandonware.com/game/phantasie-c5
http://www.myabandonware.com/game/phantasie-iii-the-wrath-of-nikademus-hv
If you're a hardcore roleplayer who doesn't care much about graphics, then DOS version is probably easier to deal with also. Again the real problem is you'll miss out on the 2nd installment...
Where should I start with Japanese updated wizardry ports? Preferably in English. I love dungeon crawlers, but I can't handle clunky old UI. Calm me a baby, but I don't want to wrestle with the game to actually play it.
>>3051181
Is that with the old school FRUA program, or using whatever new-fangled thing they have now?
>>3051304
Gotcha, I played DOS (in glorious CGA...) back in the day, I'll go with that then. Should still have the code wheel thingy somewhere.
>>3051310
I don't blame you. Check out Llylgamyn Saga and New Age of Llylgamyn for PS1. They have a built-in English language option that changes most of the text to English.
Honestly though, classic Wizardry just gets on my nerves these days. Wizardry: Tale of the Forsaken Land (aka Busin) for PS2 is much better.
>>3049717
>Final Fantasy was totally in response to Dragon Quest.
I never denied that. That much is obvious. I'm talking about influence, not market competition.
>>3051310
Start with 5
FM Towns port is the best but you can play the PS1 port in New Age of Lllylgamin if you want to navigate through menus instead of using keyboard shortcuts.
>>3051807
It's not obvious at all from what you posted before. Provide some concrete evidence to support your argument or GTFO.
Read this again. This is a direct quote from Ishii.
>ですから､いかに｢ドラクエ｣と変えられるか?という部分がポイントだったんです｡
>>3048537
Why would you say a silly thing like that?
>>3051304
VICE is no harder to use than DOSBox.
>>3051304
Almost any given computer game from the late 80s will be better on the C64 and Amiga than DOS.
>>3053172
I really don't give a rat's ass, since DOS versions are much easier and more convenient to play.
>>3053153
I just said the fucking thing locked up. I'm not gonna waste time with that shit and get halfway through a game and find out more bugs.
Also fuck swapping virtual floppies and them loading times. No fuck that, I'll gladly take CGA graphics and beeper sound, and also a keyboard mapping that's almost identical to modern machine.
Anyway the C64 or Amiga graphics aren't nothing to write home about either in most of these RPGs.
>>3053530
How is the C64 version difficult to run?
>load VICE
>mount disk image
>type LOAD"*",8,1
>type RUN
>>3053536
>too much of a pussy to deal with the keyboard layout
Come on, you lazy fatboi.
>defending CGA bleeper pink/aqua colour rubbish
>>3053543
>>3053578
Ain't nobody got time for that shit.
Yep, typical Ameriburger in a motor scooter.
If you'd actually used a PC back in the day, you wouldn't say it's easier to set up than the C64.
>the hours of hell spent trying to free up that 5k of conventional memory you need to run the goddamn thing
>>3053601
Just use QEMM.
>>3053601
He means using DOSBox, you turdface.
This seems to be the current Ultima thread, so...
I went into Stonegate of Ultima 5 and took the Scepter. The three Shadowlords were there, but they just stood in their rooms and did nothing to stop me. I then proceeded to Blackthorn's castle. I passed through the throne room with two Demons on my way to the Crown, picked it up, then returned through the same room, the Demons never bothered to attack me. Is this normal? There is a whole subplot if I get caught by the guards, but if I just evade them and don't talk to anybody in the castle, taking the Crown and carrying it out meets virtually no resistance.
>>3047209
Joust
Ultima
Stampeed
Tennis
Football
wheres my prize bitch.
>>3047209
Red Storm Rising
Elite
Ultima
wizardry
Sim City?
>>3047209
You ever seen those MTV "Remember the 80s?" specials. They talk a lot about arcade games, show stock footage of Pac-Man, etc. There was no mention of C64 or Apple II as if they didn't exist.
