I think PS1 could handle Half-Life if they tried hard enough.
Of course it could, it managed Quake 2.
However the levels would be piss short and the transitions annoying as fuck. Also the physics/lighting would be totally static.
It would have worked but been a totally gimped version of the game.
>>2994821
I guess it would look like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phTjVY04_k0
>>2994824
Man that SMG feels so much better than in final version
What went wrong?
>>2994813
Quake I was ported, but not released; and then Quake II was done -- so pretty much yes; but as other's have said the limited RAM would require more loading points.
>>2994824
Damn, that's nifty. Really hammers the Quake 1 engine lineage home seeing it like that.
PS1 was one of the most worked-on systems of all time. If they could have hoped to produce a decent result, they would have. That's why PS1 games can even approach N64 graphically, because they had nearly all the market. Similar to NES vs SMS and SNES vs gen.
I wanna play this so bad.
I'd imagine Goldsource engine is a bit of a mess to run optimized on PS1. I mean, it ran like absolute shit on PS2.
>>2995871
>Your Gordon Freeman
I wouldn't care anymore after I read that.
>>2994813
I think if i had played it on a ps1 instead of a pc (after halflife2) i might have enjoyed it more
>>2995658
Check this anon:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA9km4aHjzI
>>2995920
SOMEONE PORT THIS ON PS1
>>2995927
someone could always try porting xash
it was probably quake code reworked to work like HL1
>>2995927
What's funny is my first time seeing this was it running on the PSP of all things.
>Half-Life ported to PSP!
>shitty Quake PSP engine
>just HL1 bsp and assets
>still Quake sounds
>>2995871
>Counterstrike
I imagine it would use the PS1's network adapter on its parallel port;_;
>>2995920
Quake engine didn't support transparent textures?
>>2996161
Dafuq happened to my post?!
>>2994824
You know some of that gameplay footage I actually like more than HL1. The doors opening are a little slow but I wish HL1 started that quickly as well. Some things could be changed up, but watching that it feels way more like a labratory complex than what was released did. Also not having music kind of works in it's favor - almost gives me a STALKER feel. I wouldn't have minded if they had a science-fictiony gun model that worked like the SMG in that gameplay shooting light bolts.
>>2996529
half life wouldn't be what it is without the music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raqLH-raNvw
>>2996124
AFAIK no. To get transparent water/portals you needed glquake and after a particular version when it was hacked in and you still needed to use VIStools on the maps by hand. I'm not aware of any other textures having transparency.
From a site scanning about technical info I found this noted
>Transparency and Translucency
>Quake is an indexed color engine, and does not support RGBA (although the lightmaps are Alpha channel maps, in a way). There is no mipmapping hack for billboards/sprites, and no indexed color lookup for translucency and colored glass. For the same reason, water, slime, lava surfaces are opaque.
>A perfectly transparent, invisible obstacle can be created using a Brush with a "clip" texture. It will be used to create the clip hull, but not the draw hull.
>A certain amount of translucency can be created exploiting the properties of dynamic lighting.
>>2996542
>half life wouldn't be what it is without the music
I know. That's what I'm saying. What it is isn't so hot.
Also thanks for the completely out of place forgettable music.
>>2996556
i have not seen someone with such shit taste in a long time
>>2996559
Your hair must be a mess if you don't even own a mirror.
>>2996124
>Quake engine didn't support transparent textures?
Wait, so since Quake II N64 has transparent water, wouldn't this indicate that it in fact used Quake II's engine and not Quake I as is popularly claimed?
>>2996563
ahhaha well meme'd my friend
>>2994813
that feel when Gordan Freeman is the same age as you and he has his Phd in Theoretical Physics already
>>2996542
Imagine a PS1 port of Half-Life using redbook audio.
Maybe you could do it, but you'd need to compress the textures to shit to even get 15fps.
>>2997075
If Medal of Honor, Quake II and Alien Resurrection didn't need to, Half-Life doesn't need to. If anything, I'm worried about the draw distance. Some of those views are very large.
>>2997108
dont forget that quake 2 was a fucking shit game that had 4 textures
thats why they didnt compress them
>>2997108
Fog. Lots of Fog.
>>2997167
Make it yellowish brown, so it's dust instead of fog. You know, New Mexico deserts and all. Does New Mexico have dust storms?
>>2995871
>not compatible with the Playstation mouse
Fuck that.
No. Not nearly enough RAM in the PS1 to handle it unless you divided each level into several parts, and that'd be just horrible to play.
Not sure how people think PS1 was very capable. It was a very limited system that ran up against tons of limitations when making games. You could definitely do a lot with what it had but when you try to do anything beyond that? Nah.
>>2997108
Those games didn't have nearly the amount of stuff and detail going on that HL did. Again you'd have to severely limit the levels or dumb it down so that it's nearly unrecognizable.
>>2997075
I seriously don't know if you're a troll or just very confused.
A quick search does not reveal PS1 being capable of doing texture compression. Even if it did, texture compression usually deals with memory consumption, not FPS. It can increase FPS slightly in some cases, but that's with more modern GPUs than what PS1 had. PS1 had hardware for decompressing video, but that's not usable for textures.
>>2997120
>quake 2 was a fucking shit game that had 4 textures
Holy hyperbole, Batman.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure you're a troll.
>thats why they didnt compress them
Because texture compression was not available.
>>2994813
>>2994813
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atG1RTimzk8
Or course it could work, you could probably get a wireframe version of it working on a Jaguar easily.
The problem is that Half Life is significantly more complex geometrically than Quake 2, and the PS1 port of that game had very simple geometry (even the N64 port looks high poly by comparison). So it wouldn't really look like Half-Life.
>>2994813
The Dreamcast could barely handle it what makes you think the Gaystaion could?
>>2997416
The Dreamcast version used higher quality player models.
>>2996552
Even Doom and Duke3d had transparency, what a letdown.
>>2994824
those weapon models do seem nifty, but that's about all the good I can find in this that the release dosen't beat
except for that hallway at 23:33, that design should have seen release
>>2996605
Le tips m'edge to your narwhallousness at m'idnight
>>2997575
I think the main thing there was that any player model wouldn't need transparency and any structures like grates could be modeled without it as well. Otherwise the only thing left was the water. Quake did lots of other stuff though so it's not that bad. But sourceports and GLQuake add it in for water later with vis'd maps so the only thing that was lacking in transparency now has it. Honestly, the fact that it was even in question demonstrates how little need there actually was for it.
>>2997575
Gotta make some sacrifices sometimes. Besides, if they made gates and stuff with transparent textures instead of poly modeling, I swear the game would not look nearly as good.
>>2997302
I got big FPS improvements with ram upgrades back in the early 00's. It's nowadays that everything is GPU dependent.
>>2997575
pretty sure they just had per-poly transparency, which isn't that impressive
>>2999115
>per-poly transparency
Please explain what you mean by this, and by the way I was not dissing the lack of alpha channels, but just a simple palette index that made billboards not draw certain pixels.
Build not only had the usual 1bit alpha flag but even two hardcoded semi-transparencies all done in 8-bit mode, and some broken attempt at translucency (at least that's what I can gather).
>>2999149
it means that the blending is consistent throughout the polygon instead of being determined on a per-pixel basis
although in this case it probably would be per-vertex
>>2999170
I still don't get what you're saying, sorry. Of course realize what I said only applies to flat sprites (and some upper/lower sectors in later Build games).
>>2994824
That was interesting, thanks
>>2999180
I think he means translucent monsters for example.
>>2994813
maybe that screenshot i don't see how they would pull off blast pit just to name a segment
Any HL1 mods I should play? already played all the expansions several times.
>>3000074
They Hunger is a classic. I still have all 3 PC Gamer discs that mod came on. I love it a whole bunch, but it ain't perfect. It's got some SERIOUS quirks. Parts of it can get so fucking frustratingly hard, you might find yourself restarting from an earlier save just so you have a handful more bullets and 10% more life.
Heart of Evil is a lot of fun, with a lot of the same quirks. I love me some Vietnam War action, and it's awesome right up until they start throwing regular alien enemies at you. It was one of the earlier mods I played, so I don't know how well it's held up, but I do know there's a "Redux" edition that might reskin and rework the game.
I HIGHLY, HIGHLY recommend the DAV levels. DAV 1, 2, and 3. Pretty short, but holy jesus goddamn, I consider those to be the pinnacle of HL1 modding. Hard, but never frustratingly so, beautiful sets (though it is just a reworked Black Mesa Facility).
Pic kind of related: I found the motherload of Half Life mods on a small stack of burned CDs recently (I made it something like 16 years ago now). I don't even remember burning it. Now I'm having fun going back and sorting through these.
>>2995907
kek
Some people here said draw distance and fog will be inevitable, but this got me thinking, how is it possible that games like Spyro were able to pull off such a grand view distance? That shit had almost no fog. This also goes for N64, some shit examples (Turok) and many good ones (a lot of games.)
>>3000074
Here's a good list to get you started
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=244869429
>>3001731
Objects in Spyro increase/decrease polygon count depending on your distance.
It all explained here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5tBQfiBASM
>>3001845
So why is it that Turok or Alien Resurrection need such a close draw distance? Their geometry is not even complex to begin with. Spyro is rendering terrain meshes.
>>3001859
They didn't know about LOD trick or were too lazy to implement it.
>>2995674
>n64
>better than PS1 graphically
Yeah, no. Stop trolling
>>3001859
They all have more or less the same draw distance but use different methods to deal with it.
Turok and Alien Resurrection hide objects in the fog while Spyro decrease their texture resolution and polygon count. Same shit, different day.
>>3001903
The LOD method is way more visually appeasing and literally made for the N64 fast loading times and extended RAM. Talk about wasted opportunities.
>>2995920
Tomb Raider 1 had a stand-alone expansion called "Unfinished Business" on PC and someone ported that on PS1 by transfering its level files to the PS1 version of the original game. Since they managed to run Half-Life maps on Quake engine, I wonder if it also possible convert them on PS1 version of Quake 2 to make a half-assed port.
i'm still quietly enraged that valve has nonchalantly abandoned this franchise
>>3001868
LOD's not a trick, it's standard mesh design. It's still done today on practically every game and was super common even back then, and before the PS or N64
>>3002047
proof
The three buildings on the left. Closest one has all windows, second one combines windows in each floor to one rectangle and removes the front wall, third one drops the front altogether
The fence on the right is removing its fence posts and upper part in the distance
>>3002056
How does this proof it was not a trick even if it's common sense? I can't think of many 90s games that said "okay guys, we're going to bake different models for different distances and constantly switch them when the camera gets too close or too distant", an exception doesn't make it the industry standard, at least back then.
>>3002072
On the top image you can see a disruption in the road. That's where the game switches the segment distance to reduce the polygon count.
On the bottom image you can see the car turning right in from of the arc is looking very deformed, because it is using a lower lod and approximate rendering methods
>>3002085
On the top image you can see a disruption in the road. That's where the game switches the segment distance to reduce the polygon count.
On the bottom image you can see the car turning right in from of the arc is looking very deformed, because it is using a lower lod and approximate rendering methods
>>3002072
When you lower the quality in Descent you can draw the lod changes closer. What these screenshots don't show is that if the enemy is further away their textures get dropped as well
>>3002072
In The Need For Speed it's a bit hard to see, because the change happens far away, but it's definitely there
>>3002072
Also The Need For Speed, notice the change of texture on the far left.
>>3002072
Can't do good screenshots of it, so motion will have to do:
https://youtu.be/iMRAMLk9Rb4?t=267
Look at the rock walls and hills on the side of the road, about 50 to 100 yards in front of the car they "pop" because they change shape as the new lod comes into play. This is emulator footage, because the extra resolution helps to make the lod change more visible. While this is high stakes, the exact same effect can be seen in hot pursuit as well
Then you are retarded. Well, it problably could but it would run like shit.
On that note, how is the PS2 version of HL?
If you want to complain that most of my examples are from racing games: That's my genre, so sue me, and lod changes require engine support. For racing games lod changes are fairly easy, due to their data structure. You got a "tube" of track data, with the vehicles being on different segments of the track. That way you can instantly tell how far away cars and objects are. Also, for each "segment you can provide multiple detail levels, to flip them dynamically. For cars and other objects it's even simpler, as you just swap them out. However, with general level data it's trickier. For example Descent uses a cube structure. The game can trivially determine how many cubes away something is, and change details based on that. First it will turn off textures, then it will stop rendering altogether, leaving a black hole. You can try this out by lowering the details in the game. What it can not do that way is swap out geometry. The level geometry is hard baked, and there's no suitable alternative. It will still swap out actors, as proven in that screenshot, but it will never add or remove polygons from the environment. That brings us back to Spyro: In order for it to use lod changes, the engine had to be written for it. I have not seen it in motion, so I can't say when and how lod changes happen, but it does require active work from the engine designers and the engine itself. Often enough it's "just not worth it". That is, the gain in visuals from implementing lod for the environment may be lower than the overhead for figuring out the lod changes. They apparently managed to get a good engine going, so that's nice. But it's not some advanced spooky trickery on their end. Adapting the lod is standard. The question is merely how, and if it's worth it.
>>2996624
I know that feel.
Not only that but he's actually at work on time at 8 AM.
>>2999180
What he's saying is that rather than the texture on the polygon determining which parts are transparent the whole polygon (and any texture on a polygon defined as "transparent") would be transparent. So, you couldn't have things transparent on a pixel-by-pixel basis as a polygon would usually take up more than a pixel on the screen.
>>3002156
Pretty good, a lot of load screens though.
Co-op was the tits, and it had USB KB/M support.
>>3001859
Spyro can afford more polygons than Alien Ressurection because Spyro has a 100% baked static lighting model, while AR does a lot more complex stuff with lighting those polys. Remember T&L means that geometry and vertex lighting are processed together, and compete for processing time.
>>3001919
I think it really depends. LOD transitions can be quite obvious and distracting. Fog on the other hand is 'ever-present' but games like Turok smoothly alpha blend enemies out of the fog so it looks like a natural transition. I think LOD is a better overall but for games that are atmospheric fog is more appropriate.
By the way, most N64 games did do LOD - the system has hardware support for mipmaps which is texture LOD and because it's hardware accelerated, the transition between levels is fairly subtle unlike Spyro. However, only very few games did poly LOD on N64 which is a shame - too many developers were drawn in by the hardware accelerated fog. Though many PS1 devs were outright lazier and just did pop in.
>>3001894
He didn't say that though.
>"That's why PS1 games can even approach N64 graphically"
>>3001995
I feel pretty much the same way.
>>3002287
>smoothly alpha blend enemies out of the fog so it looks like a natural transition
I was playing Tiny Tank last night and I noticed their take on "fog" and alpha blending was really well done. This is much better than a single color fog. It's also very mesmerizing to watch individual polygons blend in and out.
>>3003240
it's also much harder on the hardware, as it needs to look up the texel of the skybox, instead of blending with a solid color, while uniform single-colored fog is largely "free" on accelerared hardware
>>3003243
I was just thinking last night that this game has terrain mesh work that is simply too good for this game. Texture work is pretty detailed in a dense and grainy kind of way, and there's a lot of shit happening on screen. So of course this dumb game runs at 10-15 fps at certain points. And to top it off, your weapon fire speed is tied to the framerate so if you stare at a wall you unleash a barrage. They just didn't give a fuck about the framerate.
>>3001859
well, mario 64 did this tho.
I think zelda too.
>>2997389
that's a bit ant-ish webm there, mate.
Anyway, they made a port of Q2 even for N64. All in all, the engine was pretty damn scalable, and I could see HL1 running on PS1 with few tweaks similar to those done to Q2.
>>2994813
There's a PS2 port of it. It couldn't run on the PS1 cause of the AI.
>>3003273
Yep, OoT also did this whole "low-poly in far-off distances with high-poly when close" thing as well (which makes sense considering they share the same engine). I think MM dropped this though.
>>2997389
>>3003646
>tfw you made both webms and people repost them in the same thread
http://ngemu.com/threads/peteopengl2tweak-tweaker-for-peteopengl2-plugin-w-gte-accuracy-hack.160319/ In case someone wants to know the plugin for the perspective correction AKA no jello 3d graphics
>>3003646
the amazing thing is that it actually looks better than the PC version here
it actually has colors
>>3003984
>plugin for the perspective correction AKA no jello 3d graphics
Not really. From what's been posted on that thread it actually lessens the effect. Then again I have little to no gripes with PS1 jitter in general. It ain't the best but it isn't really the worst either.
>>3001894
What? n64 was more potent than PS1 by far. PS1's strenght was cheap storage and more developers.
>>2998639
>I got big FPS improvements with ram upgrades back in the early 00's
That's because PCs use a swap file when they run out of memory, which is dog slow (your HDD is used as RAM). More ram means less swapping equals better performance.
Consoles in the 90s did not work like that. Once you run out of memory, that was that. But they aren't heavily multitasking environments so they didn't need to worry about that anyway, games had to be written so they fit in memory (unlike PCs where memory did not matter cause you had the swap file preventing serious problems).
>>2997302
>I seriously don't know if you're a troll or just very confused.
He could just mean that the textures need to be extremely reduced in quality to fit. Not that they need actual on-the-fly texture compression.
>>3004025
Errr what? The lighting in the PS1 version is extremely palette limited.
Although to compensate the port is a bit brighter.
>>2997416
>The Dreamcast could barely handle it what makes you think the Gaystaion could?
The DC handled it AND enhanced it a ton.
>>3004157
have you played the PC version recently?
it's orange, and sometimes brown, this on the other hand has more colors
>>3004160
>Gaystaion
Why would you respond to obvious bait
>>3004165
Yea, I've played both recently. But I'm looking at technical aspects, not aesthetics.
The PC version has darker global lighting because it uses a lot more colored emitters. The PS1 version is brightened up by default because it uses fewer emitters and the emitters it has are rather RGB limited.
Note the difference in brightness levels between software and OpenGL mode on PC. The PS1 version is like the former except the lighting has much bigger palette than that, but lesser palette than the latter.
