Have you played it yet, /vr/?
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/john-romero-released-his-first-doom-level-in-21-ye/1100-6433879/
The legend rises again.
OREMOR NHOJ EM LLIK TSUM UOY EMAG EHT NIW OT
>>2918875
>it's just Daikatana HD
the last sequence a good reimagining of the original level with a lot of competent shootman findkey put before it. has all sorts of the level design tricks you pick up on over 20 years
good wad would play more
Poor guy.
His level is going to be picked apart and scrutinized to hell and back.
>>2918967
If I were him, I'd anonymously release a map pack on Doomworld and see what kind of reception it gets. After a while come out and tell people that I made it and watch the shitstorm unfold.
Devs should make map packs for their games like this more often, especially the original Doom devs.
I wonder what Romero's favourite fan made map pack is. You think he's played Scythe 2 et al?
>>2918917
>it's just Daikatana HD
>that fixes all of its issues and turns it into an amazing, quality game
John Romero about to make a whole new generation his bitch.
>>2918834
Beat it.
It's okay. I'd rate it 6.5-7/10 out of respect to the man.
Pretty hard, and has a lot of convoluted level design (and plenty of secrets). Reminds me of Doom64 levels. And goddammit, those wads that enable jumps just spoiled me.
>>2919158
Ah, and the hell knight portals reminded me of Doom 3 level. I mean, just look at them.
>>2919158
>convoluted level design
How so? It was complex, yes, but why convoluted? I thought the level design was astonishing. I'm not trying to be mean or incite an argument, but rather a friendly discussion, so don't misread my post.
>>2919171
I meant that it had convoluted design for a Doom 1 episode 1 map. Just look at map geometry: many height levels and shit. Id started doing it in later episodes and Doom64.
It reminds me of that big lava-filled map (from e3, I think) with a shitton of teleporters that I can't remember.
Video to those of us who are total scrubs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDIhlfob_4c
>>2919178
>idkfa
>>2919182
lmao I know
>>2919176
>Id started doing it in later episodes and Doom64
Id didn't make Doom64
>>2919158
As a guy who's only recently completed Doom 1 and 2 for the first time and played only a few mods, I have to give this a 9/10. I thought it was very fun to play with plenty of clever level design but maybe just a tiny bit predictable. He should make a whole map pack or something.
>>2919178
>idkfa
>crosshair
>freelook
>>2919178
>freelook
There is literally no point to this in DOOM
>>2919374
Personal preference
>>2918834
many fun! much like! Definitely felt like I was playing a DOOM level from back in the day, except maybe for the final room, which was a little bit over done. I definitely died 3 times at least, so kudos to him. I blame the rum.
>>2918874
Haha I still had that sound clip in my head from like twenty years ago. I just now looked it up on YouTube to see if I was remembering it right, and I was. :)
i love fulldark and monster meme closets, bravo romero
>>2918834
The subtle hints towards secrets. The clever tricks. The aesthetically appealing architecture. The adept understanding of player psychology. A perfect amount of challenge. The minute attention to detail.
I'm being 100% serious when I say that this is one of my favorite maps of all time, and I've played A LOT of Doom maps. No, I'm not just a John Romero fanboy. This is a seriously well designed map. This is, quite honestly, a masterpiece of level design. There's not a single FPS game released in the past fifteen years that I've played which has level design this good.
>>2919374
It gives the player a slight advantage, because you can look into crevices down below to see if any enemies are lurking there. You can actually see the player doing this in the video at one point, to make sure there aren't any more shotgun guys/invisidemons crawling around.
using doom1 wad does he mean the shareware version? I can't get custom wads to work with that. I never played doom wads before but I want to play this or do I just use ultimate doom?
>>2921045
Ultimate Doom works fine
>>2919178
>sign of evil
I fucking hate that track. It drives me insane.
>>2921326
Why? I think it's really atmospheric and awesome. It's not really good for a 22 minute level, but still. It definitely works well in the original game.
>>2921326
The OPL version is 10/10 moody material. Too bad Ultimate Doom fucked the driver in charge of the music so many notes skip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jGYPGiNJlY
>>2921045
Shareware version actually does not work :P
He fkt up.
He used some textures from retail that were not in shareware.
>>2919130
>Daikatana
>a good concept with bad execution
>gets a remake that fixes all the problems
that would be nice i would love to play it if that ever happens
Playing it now. Got over 200 kills and then paused.
Yaaaaawn. This shit is far too easy. Maybe it's just because I've beaten Plutonia and its unofficial sequel, but this feels really fucking easy.
There are no ambushes and no open levels. You just walk around hallways killing monsters one at a time.
You know what my favorite level ever probably is? Perfect Hatred in Doom 2. I love that level. Lots of guys, wide open level to explore...that's how I like my Doom levels.
This shit is eeeeeeasy. Gonna take a shit and then beat it.
>>2921593
Oops, Perfect Hatred was in Episode 4, Level 2. My mistake. Was writing fast.
>>2919178
>free aim
What is this Mickey Mouse bullshit?
>>2919178
>>2919271
>>2919374
>>2921874
What's up with everyone ITT hating on mouse look? I always play with mouse look on, who wants to not be able to look up and down lol?
What bugs me is that fucking crosshair. I never have the crosshair on when I play Doom. Who needs a dot right in the middle of the screen? No one.
>>2918834
Not yet, though I hear it's good.
>>2918875
I think he was in on some MMO at some point but I want to say that it was cancelled.
I know he said he was involved with some kind of shooter but didn't want to disclose details as he was afraid of building up undue hype again.
>>2919182
That's pretty scrubby.
>>2919374
I've used freelook in First Person Shooters since Half-Life, and nothing can convince me that there's a better way to play Doom (or any other FPS that isn't Wolfenstein) than with freelook and auto-aim off.
Crosshairs aren't really much necessary for regular Doom, but they matter a lot more for gameplay mods.
I just like having a nice and unobstructive dot. It's clear and to the point, without cluttering your screen.
>>2919839
Git gud. If darkness really bothers you then get a flashlight mod.
>>2919908
Freelook can give you -some- definite advantages, but ultimately, what matters is actually being good at the game.
It's fun to play with sourceports and mods but ultimately you'll want to play the original way of the game to get a feel for it.
I'm a massive GZDoom whore but it's just fun to fire up some of the old console ports sometimes.
>>2921593
Git... less gud?
>>2921593
>perfect hatred
That's my least favorite map in the game, for two reasons, one is that I don't like the layout (it's really not very fun or interesting), the other is that there really isn't a comfortable amount of health around, which wouldn't be quite so much of a problem if there was more room to maneuver, but there really isn't.
I can take E4M1 on UV and I'll make it typically, often with some injury by the end, but I'll be there.
E4M2 is just not any fun at all to me.
I hear Romero still sometimes gets "FUCK YOU" mails for E4M2 to this day, which he thinks is pretty funny (and it's pretty funny).
>Plutonia and its unofficial sequel
I love the level design of Plutonia 2, as well as it's music and general aesthetics, but I'm not good enough to play it (not without cheating like a fag), Blood is honestly easier to get into. It's hard, but it never overwhelms you with like 30 big bad mama jamas at a time. In Plutonia or a Plutonia style wad, you'll sometimes fight two viles in one room, or several viles in short order (which is possible, but not typically very fun at all times), or like a few dozen barons.
Blood has the werewolves, who are super dangerous, but you never fight several in short order (from what I recall), and they don't send out like 8 cerberus or 4 stone gargoyles in a not quite big enough yard.
>>2921874
It's the future, the future of 1996
>>2921923
Probably autism. Sometimes I see people who genuinely think Doom was a keyboard only game, and who begins pooping their pants at the thought of even mouse turning (Romero played with keyboard + mouse, might I add).
>>2921923
It's not how Doom was meant to be played.
>>2918834
Poor guy misses the attention.
>>2921997
Doom wasn't meant to be played on keyboard only but that doesn't mean it can't be done or shouldn't be done, there's a few people who are absolutely masterful at playing Doom with just a keyboard, better than your average mouse user.
Doom is so modular and can be approached from so many different ways, I don't see why some people are bothered by it.
Doom was retooled into an Aliens fangame within weeks of release, and there were multiple Star Wars mods, all of id thought this was the tightest shit. The game was structured with the .wad formats for ease of modding and Carmack released the source code himself, telling people to wild.
The original game is great but there's just so many cool and fun things you can do with it.
There's really only a few places in the original maps where freelook can significantly give you an advantage and most of those times it's really a pretty small advantage all things considered.
Jumping and crouching can radically alter how you play some maps, but you can either just conciously avoid passing barriers you understand you're not meant to, or turn off the features altogether.
>>2922006
Wouldn't you? He was practically a videogame rockstar.
Also, it's not like he doesn't get attention from Doomers anyway, he did interviews for the 20th anniversary where he told interesting stories and information that wasn't widely (if at all) known, and he's also dug up old alpha/beta content for the world to see, some which was really good and a lot which had never before been seen.
Unused textures, a few early drafts of levels, unused items, an unused monster, etc.
>>2922048
I've only ever played Doom with keyboard only. I'm not anti-mouse, but you shouldn't be able to look up and down.
>>2922071
>I'm not anti-mouse, but you shouldn't be able to look up and down.
Why? Why does being able to look up and down matter?
>mouselook vs no mouselook
How about you stop playing this outdated shit and go play something that was designed to have them instead, like Quake.
>>2922086
Because it breaks the game and makes it way too easy, as in the video showed when he was able to see guys you wouldn't normally be able to and then kill them safely.
>>2922103
You mean when guys are up high and able to shoot down at the player?
Fuck that cheap shit lol. That's not fun difficulty; that's cheap difficulty. Fun difficulty is getting ambushed, or having a tough monster to kill with a low amount of ammo. Having cheap shit like monsters up high shooting down at the player is not an enjoyable part of Doom.
Also, how do you guys know mouse look wasn't intended? Mouse look has been included as an option in Doom ever since the first one.
>playing NRFTL on Crispy Doom
>in the second map
>fighting through that part in the end with the horde of mancubi, hell knights and etc.
>suddenly noclip activates by itself (without cheat input and without the message) and my guns also no longer hit anything
the fuck happened
>>2922123
>Mouse look has been included as an option in Doom ever since the first one.
Yeah...horizontal mouselook. Almost no one will argue against that.
>>2922006
I don't get why people say this. He seems extremely happy on his social media accounts and appears to live a good life and to feel very fulfilled.
>>2922048
>Jumping and crouching can radically alter how you play some maps, but you can either just conciously avoid passing barriers you understand you're not meant to, or turn off the features altogether.
Yeah, I don't think that anyone would argue that jumping is a fair tactic in Doom 1 and 2. The games are clearly not intended to be played with jumping.
I recall one instance in an early Doom 2 level where you can see blue armor on a ledge that looks like you should be able to grab, but it's just barely out of reach: you aren't supposed to get it until later in the level. If you could jump here, you would bypass almost the entirety of the level.
I don't give a shit about freelook though.
>>2922048
>he did interviews for the 20th anniversary where he told interesting stories and information that wasn't widely (if at all) known,
Link?
>>2922141
Nevermind, I found it. Here's the link to the interview for anyone interested:
http://venturebeat.com/2013/12/11/after-20-years-doom-co-creator-john-romero-looks-back-on-the-impact-of-a-seminal-game-interview/
You can also listen to it on Youtube (the link above is a transcript), but who would rather listen to an interview rather than read it?
>>2922123
>You mean when guys are up high and able to shoot down at the player?
>Fuck that cheap shit lol. That's not fun difficulty; that's cheap difficulty
This doesn't really occur at all in Doom because of the way the autoaim works. As well, if an enemy can see you and shoot at you, then you can shoot back at it, even without vertical aim.
>>2922123
>Having cheap shit like monsters up high shooting down at the player is not an enjoyable part of Doom.
This never happens in Doom 1 or 2. I would argue that those games don't really feature any "cheap difficulty".
I think using freelook is fine, so I agree with you, but the points you made are largely incorrect.
I concede my argument about mouse looking up and down being okay.
Since this WAD was meant as a replacement for the last level of the first episode of Doom the most authentic experience would be to turn off free look.
That being said, I normally play with free look on for fan-made WADs like Plutonia 2 or Going Down.
>>2922126
>the fuck happened
sounds like you accidentally triggered a spechits or an intercepts overflow, anon.
>>2922123
Turning is not mouselook. How do people get this wrong?
The term mouselook was invented to describe looking up and down with the mouse.
>>2922231
I'm a purist that plays vanilla maps vanilla. But the readme for this map says it was only tested in Zdoom and some other modern engine. If it was made with Zdoom in mind fucked if I'm not gonna use mouselook and jump.
>>2922071
>I've only ever played Doom with keyboard only. I'm not anti-mouse, but you shouldn't be able to look up and down.
Doom had mouse support since the beginning, you just couldn't look up and down, it was for turning only, and it's how it plays the best, keyboard plus mouse turning (though some types of mouse actually weren't compatible with the original .exe at the time)
I just play with freelook if I can because I just seriously hate auto-aim. It just feels wrong, especially if I actually have a mouse in my hand.
>>2922087
Doom is just so much more fun and has so much more community content.
>>2922103
>Because it breaks the game and makes it way too easy
In my opinion, it doesn't really change the difficulty enough to matter most of the time. Plutonia and Ep4 is still hard with freelook.
If you're not actually good at Doom, no amount of freelook, jumping or crouching is gonna help you, if you're good at Doom, you can play just as well with or without it.
I use it just because I like the free feel of freelook and lack of auto aim, the gameplay formula is largely the same.
The only part in the original games that are made significantly easier is Icon Of Sin, but I'll be honest, he wasn't that good of a bossfight from the getgo.
>>2922123
That almost never happens in Doom or Doom 2, if at all. Though Final Doom seems like it might do some shit like that, I can't quite recall at the moment.
It had sneaky shit like hidden viles resurrecting chaingunners up on ledges so that you would be under a constant barrage of machinegun fire, no matter how much you shot back.
I think there was supposed to be one part in TNT where there's an archie in a window but he's at just the height that using auto aim on him is really tricky, you had to get at just the right distance or something.
>>2922141
He did some interview for IGN I think, where they played through ep1 on coop, shit was pretty cash actually.
>>2922295
I often play vanilla maps with mods, and I use freelook, jumping, crouching and a dot crosshair.
Thing is that I know the mechanics of vanilla levels so I always make sure I never use those features to break sequence.
>>2922295
But the intention was for the map to act as a replacement for the final mission of episode 1. That's why I conceded my point.
If it's meant to be a mission from episode 1 then it should be played like the other missions from episode 1.
>>2922324
Wassup motherfucker.
>>2922295
>some other modern engine
Crispy Doom is just Chocolate Doom with a few changes.
>>2922324
.gaf ,yrt eciN
\v\<<<
>>2922324
Who do people do this?
Are you trying to be funny, or you actually deluded enough to believe that John Romero himself stumbled into a thread on the Retro Games board of 4chan to try and convince people that his level is good?
>>2922295
I played the map. It's designed without mouselook and jump in mind. You can easily skip a lot of the level by jumping.
>>2922131
>He seems extremely happy
>seems
>>2921463
>He fkt up.
He did not say it works with the shareware version. Anon just assumed, and assumed wrongly
>>2922380
That he would? Yes. That he would on the /vr/ board of 4Chan? Not for a second.
>>2922392
He doesn't come across as bitter or conceited, or sad or heartbroken.
You gotta understand, Romero is a man who very much wears his emotions openly, if he was downtrodden or depressed, it would be very obvious.
>>2922402
I don't doubt he's happy. Same with Tom Hall. But...I actually look at the work they're doing...On what are essentially shit-tier clickbait games and mobile trash...And I constantly wonder: How???
How are they happy doing that bullshit?
How do I force 4:3 fullscreen in prboom+?
>>2922409
Romero actually is very happy with the games he creates as evidenced by his social media posts.
Really, they are the same kind of games that he loved to make in the 80s with updated graphics, in a different format.
>>2922401
Honestly, what makes you think that? You just assume? Is there a precedent you are going by?
>>2922413
Are the 4:3 resolutions stretching? You should be able to fix that on your monitor, m8. If you've got some sort of shit monitor then force it in your video card settings. There should be an option like 'perform scaling on GPU' as well as basic aspect ratio settings. Scaling on GPU SHOULD respect ratios.
>>2922409
Ya gotta understand that facebook games and phonegames are VERY much like the old Apple II games he used to churn out and sell off to magazines when he was a little kid.
He'd send the game in to a magazine, they'd send him a chunk of cash (often these were contests, that he would often win), the game would then be published by the magazine, either as an inlcuded diskette, or if it was a particularly simple game, they'd print the actual code in the magazine and you were meant to type in the provided code by hand into your computer to get the game, this was called a type-in.
These games were a lot like the typical simple games you'll find for phones and on facebook. Typically single screens, crude graphics, simple gameplay. Only these kind of games can be made better now.
He probably gets paid well, and it's kind of a callback to his childhood.
He's supposedly involved in some real videogame currently though.
>>2922448
Yeah it seems to be 4:3 stretched wide. I got an NVidia GTX460 so I'm pretty sure I can do it with their control panel program, but I was hoping there was a way around installing that. Sounds like I should install it.
>>2922491
check your monitor first, keeping aspect is one of those simple functions they all should have
>>2922494
Holy shit that worked. Thanks, gamer!
So, the new Doom or Doom 4 or whatever the fuck you want to call it is basically just a modern remake of the original game/storyline...
I literally thought that's what Doom 3 was.
Why is ID staffed with nothing but a bunch of fucking hacks?
Why can't they make a new game?
>>2922513
>I literally thought that's what Doom 3 was.
Doom 3 explored a more horror-based approach, while Doom (4) supposedly returns to speed and area control. The screenshots suggest otherwise, but people are hyped and will buy it, all that matters to id.
>ID
lowercase, pronounced like a word, not an acronym
>Why can't they make a new game?
Why should they? Old IP is so much easier to make, and a much lower risk in terms of sales. They are a game production company, not a game development company.
>>2922518
>returns to speed and area control
>Area control
Fucking trash, will not buy.
>>2922513
>So, the new Doom or Doom 4 or whatever the fuck you want to call it is basically just a modern remake of the original game/storyline...
Fun fact, so was Quake.
>inb4 intentions
>>2922525
wasn't Quake all that medieval looking junk? And Quake 2 and 4 kind of suggest something rather unrelated to hell or Mars moons
>>2922525
Well... Remake of Quake 2 at least... The original Quake had a different storyline/setting.
Is this the new DOOM thread?
>>2922397
He said "using only shareware assets"
>>2922614
>https://twitter.com/romero/status/688054778790834176
>It's been 21 years since I made a DOOM level. Here's my version of E1M8 using DOOM1.WAD
>using DOOM1.WAD
I see no mention of the shareware assets
>>2919158
>And goddammit, those wads that enable jumps just spoiled me.
I've hardly played any maps, that require jumps. Got any suggestions?
>>2922634
DOOM1.WAD was the shareware iwad...
>>2922678
I stand corrected then
Well it was a good map, although it doesn't feel "classic" in many ways, but I don't know if that was the point.
Goddamn that difficulty spike when switching to ultra violence though...
>>2922691
How does it not feel "classic"? As in, what aspects have changed, or are you missing? Is it better or worse? Just different?
That said, level designers can learn and grow. Also goes to show what you can do with plain old vanilla Doom, that you don't need all the added features of source ports.
>>2922672
Helpyourselfish is a fun WAD with jumps enabled.
https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/g-i/helpself
Warning though it's a pretty challenging map. Casual fags need not apply.
>>2922567
De facto, yes
>>2921379
>>2921398
It's utterly creepy, foreboding. Sense of total desolation. Like you're stuck in Columbine massacre debug plain.
>>2922697
Well, the map is pretty tight and cramped; while in the original game you have a lot more space to maneuver. Even with the "cramped and convoluted maze like dark corridors" trope, the corridors are wider in the original game than in this map.
The enemy placement doesn't feel classic at all, in the way that it's obviously made with keyboard+mouse in mind. It's a lot more all-over-the-place (although NOT in a random, it's all over the place in a mostly well designed way) and challenging.
Then you obviously have some parts with more details than in the original game.
So in conclusion, the only bad thing for me is the crampedness. Everything else it's just, trying to bring classic Doom with modern standard of playing Doom, that is with kb+mouse movement in mind, more challenging, and with more detailed environments.
There are parts of the level where you really feel the pro though, like the way the interconnection of the map works really really well. Now that's Doom-era level design.
>>2922730
Very helpful, thank you.
In Romero's defense, Doom supported kb+mouse since day one (although it's jarring that up/down on the mouse translates to movement)
>>2922734
Yeah sure, but enemy placement in the classic way is a lot more "static", in this one there are respawns everywhere, all the time.
By the way it's a map like this when you really feel how well designed the enemy AI is in Doom. No matter where you are, those respawn from the other side of the level will work one way or another. This wouldn't work in Duke3D.
>>2922746
>Yeah sure, but enemy placement in the classic way is a lot more "static", in this one there are respawns everywhere, all the time.
I'd consider that part of developer experience. It sounds more like Romero deliberately designed it for the most capable controls available to the game, and I think that's not a bad idea. Mice, while supported, where not necessarily that common back in the days. Now they are, and they're established controls, so it makes sense to take advantage of it. I'm just kind of happy he did not use anything the original game did not support, and showed all the modern map builders that you can create a powerful and entertaining map while sticking to what the original game could do, and did do.
So, uh, how do I actually play the level? I downloaded it...I loaded up Zandronum with it and selected Doom (not Doom 2)...So, how do I get to it?
>>2922759
likewise, how would I play it on Ultimate Doom?
Open the console
type "map e1m8"
>>2922773
Thanks.
>>2922734
>although it's jarring that up/down on the mouse translates to movement
You can turn that off.
I actually like it for Wolf3D as you can make rapid and precise maneuvers to great effect, and there isn't any verticality or point in looking up or down.
>>2922849
>You can turn that off.
I remember y-lock somehow, but I can't find it in Ultimate's Setup, or in-game options.
>>2922849
>you can make rapid and precise maneuvers to great effect
No doubt that it's useful. I just find it jarring because one axis is rotation, while the other axis is movement. Fucks with my mental coordinate system.
if i'm freelooking in doom, i tend to turn off anything anything that'd help me, like the vertical aim assist or things that would make it break the game, like infintely tall actors. in wolfenstien, i don't use freelook as everything's at the same height
>>2922319
I don't think it actually is. It wasn't uncommon for a single map wad to replace whatever map had the best sky and music for the level you wanted to make. E1M8 also has the built in tag 666 which may or may not be used in the map (haven't played yet).
>>2922138
You can get the blue armour easily from the start by straferunning off the edge.
Is it me or the map felt like something out of Dark Forces?
>>2922103
That's autoaim, you can turn it off
>>2922939
it is.
>>2922939
The map ends with the bruiser brothers. So pretty sure it is.
>>2919178
>enemy teleporters
already hate it
>>2922324
I don't know who you're talking about.
>>2923506
There is literally nothing wrong with enemy teleporters.
>smaller enemies spawning during boss fight
Why, John, why.
>>2923876
to keep you on your toes? Would be boring if you could feel safe, knowing you're "in control" of the fight.
>>2923880
the reason I hate that game design decision is that you never really know if it's supposed to go on or to stop eventually. Kinda breaks the fun of perparing your moves, exploring the boss room, etc.
>>2923876
Have you forgotten the pile of spectres in the original?
>>2924187
you hear the exit opening up when ur done dude, there's no issue
>>2924187
>the fun of perparing your moves, exploring the boss room
see
>Would be boring if you could feel safe, knowing you're "in control" of the fight.
>>2922491
>I can do it with their control panel program, but I was hoping there was a way around installing that.
Can you use the drivers without it? I did not know that. Even so, it's one of the few pieces of bloat I would actually recommend installing, it's actually useful.
>>2922905
>like infintely tall actors.
Nothing to do with aiming. All this means is that you cannot be on top of a monster. The player can't, and I don't think other monsters can (so this options significantly changes how flying monsters act.) Projectiles and hitscans can still go over a monster's head.
>>2925190
>Event Horizon experiments with cutting distance through wormholes
>accidentally takes a detour through hell
God knows what lies beyond the veil of our reality and dimensions, should we poke around outside it?
>>2925197
I honestly think turning that off kind of keeps things even, you and your enemy both get an advantage
does anyone else follow the gameinformer coverage of doom
and why the new one is 3 days late?
>>2925545
phallic
>>2922048
Are you fucking kidding me? Doom was meant to be played without freelook. That's why weapons have blatant autoaiming. In fact, Doom 2 is the prime example of how freelook was never meant to be used, with its lots of pits that you cannot look down to see if you're dropping into safety or a trap. Also MAP30. Try killing the boss without freelook and tell me at which attempt you start to cry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fu7phUkpeUE
Oh hey I was just watching this before seeing this thread.
Are there wads that introduce almost every mob as a boss. Like a slightly more stronger version or in greater amounts. Or wads that have a boss-like encounter at the end of each map, like let's say bruiser brothers. I know there are lots of more heavily modded bosses but I was thinking a bit more vanilla.
whoever says romero's newest level is hard needs to play some custom wads
Just played Romero's level keyboard only like he said to. Really had a nostalgic feel to it, especially the classic Romero secrets. Imo he's still got it. Best gamefeels I had in a while, I recommend it highly!
>>2925957
>Just played Romero's level keyboard only like he said to.
He did? Where? Is it in the readme?
>>2925559
>Doom was meant to be played without freelook.
This is true. The post you quoted said that it wasn't meant to be played keyboard only, which is also true. The DOS version supported the mouse (but not freelook; more specifically, vertical look).
So really, both of your posts are right. However, the advantage freelook gives the player is minimal.
>>2925571
Is he using a keyboard? I'm not trying to start another debate; I'm actually just wondering. He's really good with the keyboard if he is.
This would be pretty cool with commentary. Does he have a deathmatch video with commentary?
>>2926326
Using mouse and freelooking isn't the same. I do play in ChocoDoom and Eternity with novert mouse and it's far more comfortable than using the keyboard.
>the advantage freelook gives the player is minimal
No. It gives you an enormous advantage. Perhaps not so much in PWADs, but in the stock IWAD levels, it does. Mainly in Doom 2, of course but in general, knowing where you'll fall if you drop from a ledge is a considerable advantage. Also my point of defeating IoS without having to use the lift more than once still stands. And let's not forget that most ports that offer freelooking also offer jumping, which alters the gameplay significantly.
And in regards to this map, no-freelook was also intended. You can tell in the part beyond the blue door, you have to drop over an elevated ledge. Using freelook spoils the trap.
>>2925957
The clack clack clack of my mechanical keyboard as I'm navigating Romero's trademark corridors... it's like I'm back in '95! Wish I could stay there, haha
>>2925559
Map 30 isn't really that hard, I've beaten that on consoles and original .exe/Doom 95
Again, I don't think freelook makes enough of a difference that it makes the game much easier.
Map 30 becomes easier, but it was honestly not very hard to begin with and it's a pretty lackluster boss.
I also kind of know Doom by heart so the original levels have no real surprises for me regardless if I have freelook.
>>2925957
>keyboard only like he said to
Where did he say this?
>>2925654
Valiant gets pretty tricky.
Then there's Plutonia 2
Going Down gets hard as fuck.
>>2926328
No, look at his turning, that's obviously mouse turning.
>>2926567
>And let's not forget that most ports that offer freelooking also offer jumping, which alters the gameplay significantly.
Which you can not use or outright turn off, just like freelook.
>>2918875
>i hate single level wads.
Please explain this stupid opinion. Why on earth would "I can't hit an exit switch and watch another map load right after" be a dealbreaker? The fuck does that have to do with whether the level is any good?
>>2922126
No idea what happened code-wise, but No Rest for the Living isn't compatible with vanilla limits.
>>2927076
I thought Crispy was Chocolate without the limits?
Also where do I get a NRFTL wad?
>>2927076
It's as the other anon said, it seems to be an intercepts overflow. I was firing my chaingun across the room with a bunch of corpses on the ground and I guess that triggered it. Wasn't able to reproduce it though. Crispy Doom seems to run NRFTL okay since it's limit removing. I'm on the secret level and haven't had any problems since that freak bug.
>>2927214
Don't have any links for you but this should be useful in helping to find it
http://doomwiki.org/wiki/NERVE.WAD
>>2926996
When chaingunners are firing at you from a distance in which your auto aim doesn't pick up or fighting the Icon of Sin then it does make a difference.
>>2925957
>keyboard only like he said to
Did a search for "keyboard" in the text file, and found 0 results. And I find it hard to believe he'd even suggest that, considering he himself always played Doom with a mouse.
>>2928156
so you just leave it in the doom directory and it automagically works?
>>2928274
You have to include it with a parameter ("-file" in ZDoom). I think just dragging the WAD onto the .exe will work.
The way DOOM works, you can't just add new files to the game, but only replace the ones already in the main WAD.
So for this level, you include Romero's WAD and then make your way through the nominal E1M8 or just warp to it.
>>2922123
>Also, how do you guys know mouse look wasn't intended? Mouse look has been included as an option in Doom ever since the first one.
The engine for Doom and Doom II was not capable of rendering freelook. That was added in forks when they reused it for other games.
>>2928448
I think a lot of the users are here are confused by the fact that you could use the mouse but not look up and down.
>>2928454
that's the key. The game had mouse controls since day one, mostly for turning left/right and moving forward/backwards, but never had the ability to tilt the view up or down. Some later doom-engine based games did that, crudely, as it violates some core assumptions of the engine's design; but it was never part of doom.
>>2928478
has anybody managed to map the original DOSBox Doom joystick + keyboard controls onto a dual analog stick game controller? What are viable controller mappings for an FPS of that time? Using a 360 controller in this case, but PS should work the same, I suppose.
>everyone in this thread BTFO
>>2922086
it literally breaks the game, it wasn't designed for it at all.
Played through it even though I shouldn't have (pic related; RSI due to fucking laptop gaming). Went through the whole first episode to reach the custom m8, and then decided to play through E4 afterwards because I haven't played any PC FPS in months and have been itching to for too long. Wonder how many weeks I've set back in physiotherapy... feels alright though...
Anyway the map was really good. Solid as fuck, nicely challenging but undoubtedly fair on UV. It's not the second coming of Christ or anything the way many fanboys itt seem to be gushing but a good map all the same.
>>2927617
I suppose? But I genuinely don't feel like it makes a huge difference cin most situations.
>>2928489
Personally I use a mouse and a one-handed gamepad for ZDoom. An analog stick with proper analog input feels pretty damn good.
>>2928754
I don't think anyone in this thread even for a second argued that jumping can't be used to break sequence in vanilla maps.
>>2928873
>it literally breaks the game
Again, I don't really feel that it does this enough to actually matter 9 times out of 10, the core gameplay of Doom, particularly in the original maps, doesn't radically alter from freelook alone, E4M2 doesn't become easy when you turn on freelook, it's still really hard.
It can give you an advantage the map author didn't intend for you to have, but not even close to as much as jumping and crouching, which can be used to bypass almost entire levels in the official levels.
Most of Doom was playtested basically like pistol start only, but I don't think anyone would say that carrying over inventory between maps is cheating.
I think it's worth playing through Doom within vanilla constraints (I occasionally do), but I wouldn't say someone isn't having a Doom experience if they regularly use freelook.
>>2921593
>no ambushes
I don't think you've played the level.
>>2921931
>That's pretty scrubby.
>uses free look in doom
>>2929163
>all Doom is vanilla Doom
>>2929174
Cute strawman.
>>2928754
Theres hardly any doomers who actually jump during regular play, unless the map requires it.
The only people who do, don't play doom very often.
>>2929254
>make mention of commonly playing ZDoom
>point out that the way he's playing is pretty bleh considering the map
>make mention of commonly playing classic
>LEL THE IRONING
And then anon was a strawman
>>2929450
i literally dont even know what the fuck you're on about now faggot. stay scrub tho
>>2928754
>>everyone in this thread BTFO
Just about everyone here uses the mouse to spin around too. It's funny that a retro board that bickers over CRT scanlines and physical cartridges nonstop condones mouseplay (aka DOOM's other "I'm Too Young To Die" mode) and uprezing the game past 320x200 stretched (which breaks spectres completely, among other things). Somehow only the DOOM community here really does this, but being the same community that gave birth to the Brutal DOOM sicko and the Barney guy, I can't say I'm terribly surprised.
>>2928754
literally who
>>2930351
playing the original exe, at 320x200 (4:3 aspect), in DOSBox, using the setup-configured mouse is wrong how?
>>2930351
>Just about everyone here uses the mouse to spin around too.
I don't know where this "Doom didn't have mouse control" meme (in the original sense of the word) came from but I hate it more than anything
>>2929450
You're not using that term correctly. You've just seen it used on /v/ so you're parroting it without fully understanding it.
Take some intro level philosophy courses when you get to college in a few years.
>>2930723
>>2930781
People who grew up on more modern FPS and go back to DOOM acting like it was balanced around mouseplay is a JOKE that even Bill Burr can't come up with. The mouse was an afterthought during development, and so doom.wad and doom2.wad are clearly not balanced around it; we're talking about the creators of Keen and Wolf3D for fragging out loud. If you think I'm wrong, that UV DOOM is really meant to be that easy, and that you're just that good at DOOM, then go ahead and give yourself a pat on the back. Just do us a favor and pick up a berserk pack before you do so.
>>2930351
Doom was made to be played with a mouse, by design, no matter what you say.
>>2931540
>the mouse was an afterthought during development, and so doom.wad and doom2.wad are clearly not balanced around it;
That's false, Doom was designed around mouse turning and was playtested with mouse turning, you can fucking ask Romero on Twitter. Mouse turning was standard ever since Wolfenstein 3D, which was built around it and playtested with it.
>we're talking about the creators of Keen and Wolf3D for fragging out loud.
What's your point?
>If you think I'm wrong, that UV DOOM is really meant to be that easy, and that you're just that good at DOOM,
Doom as it is was never super hard for the most part, it provided enough challenge to be fun for the general audience. If you want to impose a handicap on yourself out of misplaced nostalgia to make more of a challenge, then good on you, but don't act like you're a visionairy or that it's "how it's meant to be played"
Doom and Doom 2 was seen as accessible at the time, they added Nightmare! mode in response to people saying Ultra-Violence was too easy, Episode 4 was designed to be hard because there were people who complained that Doom was too easy, likewise, TNT and especially Plutonia were meant to be all new levels of challenge for their day.
>then go ahead and give yourself a pat on the back. Just do us a favor and pick up a berserk pack before you do so.
Edgier than Sgt. Mark and his brutal babbies.
I can play many games with self-imposed limitations to make them harder, that doesn't mean it's how they were designed to be played.
>>2931540
>The mouse was an afterthought during development, and so doom.wad and doom2.wad are clearly not balanced around it.
[citation needed]
>>2931540
Dude you can literally watch videos of John Romero testing the game before it was ever released with a mouse
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpEBUV_g9vU has extended video footage of John Romero playing Doom a month before its release, and clearly aiming with a mouse. Rekt 4ever
>>2930781
Same. Doom always had mouse support, and was even playtested with one. The main reason Keyboard Only was a thing in the doom community is because not everyone owned a mouse during the DOS days, and Doom 95's mouse support didn't work with non-9x windows OSs.
>>2931540
>The mouse was an afterthought during development
well, that explains why Doom 0.2 alpha has mouse support. And, you know, Wolf3D and id's earlier FPS.
Also demos, out of the box default demos were recorded with mouse, you are so blind.
>>2918875
>i hate single level wads.
But theres so many good ones out there.
I thought it was okay, not sure if I liked the cracked ground with red (lava?), made me play more careful. I wasn't sure what was hurting me at first.
Also I finished it in under 10 minutes without really trying. Once I got out of the spawn area I quickly picked up the environmental suit, found the blue key, but then walked around and ended up in a room with 2 large red gates? But I could pass through them & they hurt me. Once I killed all the enemies, I walked to the side, dropped down and ended the map.
Not sure if I played it right, but felt very short.
My only complaint with the level is that the Blue key felt like padding.
>>2918834
I hope he does a 6-11 level wad for Doom 2, next.
>>2932856
I'd be stoked if he did.
Hell, might be cool if he used maybe TNT as a base, for the music and textures.
>>2933023
Eh, I can't see him using Final Doom iwads
>>2927073
Lol look at this angry mouth breather sperging out.
>>2932685
wut
Did you jump?
>>2933085
You're damn right I am.
>>2933102
angry, a mouth breather or sperging out?
>>2933104
yes
I used to dislike single map wads. BUt this was back in the nineties, when:
(a) getting new wads required a bus trip to campus with a pile of floppy disks, so it needed to be worth the effort
(b) loading the game took the best part of half a minute, so I didn't want to be constantly starting and restarting it, so wads with multiple maps were preferable.
However with post-2000 hardware and a home internet connection neither of these things are relevant, so I cannot imagine why a single-map wad is a problem now.
>>2933138
>I cannot imagine why a single-map wad is a problem now
Doom is an episodic game, with each episode being a set of related levels, representing a story, even if very simply. single-map wads destroy that aspect, and emphasize how they're maps for the sake of maps, and not in a context. You can compare it to listening to a single song instead of a whole album, or watching a single random episode from a TV show. You can do it, but the purists will frown at the splitting, or deliberate design as standalone products.
>>2933148
>the purists
Purists know that Doom maps are balanced for pistol starts. There are some community wads that are designed for continuous play, but they're in the extreme minority. Usually, the closest you get to a "story" or any connection at all is really just a shared theme in terms of texturing and architecture (e.g. UAC Ultra, Back to Saturn X).
Actually, if anyone knows of any wads that really do have a strong sense of progression and levels that related to each other, designed for continuous play, rather than megawads that are simply collections of unrelated maps, I would like to know about it. The only examples I can think of are Ultimate Torment and Torture (really only the last episode, though) and RTC-3057.
>>2933148
Not really.
>>2933162
pistol start and overarching story and progressive difficulty are not mutually exclusive
>>2933148
Considering that there are single-map wads that are larger and longer than the entirety of a Doom 1 episode, it's still a dumb rule.
>>2933181
I said nothing about rules, just gave an explanation why people may not like single-map wads.
While you say you know single-maps that are larger than all of a Doom episode, that's taking things too simple. A sequence of maps provides for different pacing. You can have moments where the player is frantically rushing to the exit, followed by slow pacing starts of the next map. You can have actually breathing breaks between the maps. You can gradually ramp up the difficulty, and treat the beginning of maps as save points (that's also a reason why the pistol start comes in handy). Multiple smaller maps also keep actual navigation more focused and more simple, which leads to tighter pacing control, less backtracking (no matter how you design your map, players will backtrack at some point).
With a single-map you can't have most of these things. You can design some pacing into parts of it, but you can't do sudden changes, or at least not do them well.
If you didn't guess by now, I do not say multi-maps or single-maps are better. I'm just exploring their differences, which for some people may be enough to strongly prefer one over the other
>>2933189
I disagree that a sequence of maps provides for different pacing other than seeing the intermission, or if you enforce pistol starts. That was what I suggesting--that anything you can do design-wise with several maps, you can do in one map, because in Doom there is zero difference between hitting an exit switch and entering a teleporter to a different area. Yeah, there is the "save point" aspect if you die, but from a mapping standpoint there is no meaningful difference.
These differences are so minor that I'm highly skeptical of someone saying "what I like about multi-level wads, I just can't get from single maps" to the point where they "hate" them like the original poster said.
>>2933207
>other than seeing the intermission
>anything you can do design-wise with several maps, you can do in one map
except intermissions, or putting some distance between one "map" and the other
>in Doom there is zero difference between hitting an exit switch and entering a teleporter to a different area
an intermission, with a map suggesting long distance movement to the next location.
>from a mapping standpoint there is no meaningful difference
Good thing it's about pacing and storytelling, not mapping.
>These differences are so minor that I'm highly skeptical of someone saying "what I like about multi-level wads, I just can't get from single maps" to the point where they "hate" them like the original poster said.
You're looking at Doom from a highly technical viewpoint, treating the maps like challenges. Take a step back, look at them as a story, with a bit of harmless travel between key locations. There's a fundamentally different narrative between multiple small scale isolated maps, and one big interconnected map.
>>2933223
I just want to be clear here, you're saying that the lack of a pause + stats screen is enough to ruin the feeling so much that it's a dealbreaker and it makes sense to hate single-map wads for this reason.
While I can believe that someone actually has that preference, I stand by my assertion that it's a really stupid one.
>>2933257
>pause + stats screen
At this point I don't know if you refuse to understand, or can't understand
>>2933138
>loading the game took the best part of half a minute
doom used to take a long time to load up, but changing / restarting a level has always been near-instantaneous.
>>2933260
Most multi-level wads don't have map screens, and usually only megawads have intermission text, if that's what you're getting at.
To be clear, if the guy had said "I hate wads that don't have a clear story or connection between the levels," it would have been a totally different discussion.
>>2933261
Yes? That's the point. I think you misread my post.
>>2933162
Doom 2 Reloaded
Hellbound
Hell on Earth Starter Pack
>>2933601
Perdition's Gate
>>2933162
Winter fury
Pirate Doom
Those are just come to mind from the popular ones.
>>2933148
>You can do it, but the purists will frown at the splitting, or deliberate design as standalone products.
I am yet to see anyone that autistic. Did you actually saw them?
>>2933148
I have never heard of a single purist who frowned upon single map wads.
>>2933162
Pistol start balance =/= required to play in pistol start. It means a map is doable from pistol start. And most mapsets actually do take continuous play into account as well. The only ones that don't are Community Chest and 1024 type stuff.
>>2923880
Easier? Yes. Boring? Nope.
There is a difference, believe it or not.
>>2934226
I did not say easy, I said boring, and meant it.
>>2933162
Back To Saturn X Ep1, Ep2 and eventually Ep3.
>>2934619
I already mentioned BtSX in my post as an example of a megawad that doesn't have any continuity or storyline beyond aesthetics. Yes, there are the pseudo-hub levels and intermission text, but there's no real story there. It's just a bunch of cool techbases.
BtSX 2, I guess, does have locations in the hub levels that you see in the distance and then travel to, so maybe that one counts, but otherwise the levels are even more disconnected than in part 1, which at least all felt vaguely similar due to the techbase theme.
>>2934690
outside of a couple maps, BTSX E2 was for the most part, a temple ruins theme.
>>2934690
>[...] It's just a bunch of cool techbases.
Exactly the same reasoning could be applied to Doom E1.
>>2935037
I agree. I don't think E1 (or any original Doom maps) have a good sense of continuity. The map screen and Romero's mapping style are the only things tying E1 together. This isn't a criticism or anything, but when I mean "a strong sense of progression and levels that related to each other, designed for continuous play," I mean something that's more in line with Half-Life's style where each map would feel like the logical next part of one big facility. I'm not sure I would even enjoy that kind of mapset because it would probably require an overly realistic mapping style, but I'm curious if there are good examples.
>>2935561
Have you played Talosian Incident?
>>2937284
No, but from looking at it, it might be a good example of what I'm talking about.
>>2922518
Id is pronounced "eee - dee" software
>>2924308
I don't remember seeing them
>>2938121
>The company writes its name with a lowercase id, which is pronounced as in "did" or "kid", and in the book, Masters of Doom, it is said that the group identified itself as "ideas from the Deep" in the early days of Softdisk, but in the end the name 'id' came from the phrase, "in demand". It is presented by the company as a reference to the id, a psychological concept introduced by Sigmund Freud. Evidence of the reference can be found as early as Wolfenstein 3D with the statement "that's id, as in the id, ego, and superego in the psyche" appearing in the game's documentation. Prior to an update to the website, id's History page made a direct reference to Freud.
>>2938134
yes put it's pronunced "eeedee" software
>>2938139
>which is pronounced as in "did" or "kid"
>that's id, as in the id, ego, and superego
>>2938148
Are you snowed in on the East coast? You seem bored.
>>2938152
no reason for adhominem, they are not called for. This ain't /b/
>>2938148
The devs themselves call it id as in did though.
>>2938154
Pointing out that someone is being willfully dense and obnoxious is not an "ad hominem" argument. Go to /v/ if your boredom is impelling you to "troll".
>>2938121
No.
>>2938148
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/id#Pronunciation
>>2918834
Was a cool map, but kinda dragged.
