As a child, Secret of Evermore was my favorite video game. I also liked Secret of Mana, but not as much.
I'd like to make a (game that aims to be a) spiritual successor to Secret of Evermore. However, I know it wasn't perfect. In particular, SoE's lack of two-player capabilities is a significant enough flaw that's been rectified by at least one ROM hack that I know of.
So my questions to you are as follows:
1. What do you feel like SoE did better than SoM?
2. What did SoM do better than SoE?
3. What flaws did they both have?
4. What would you look for in a game that claimed to be a "spiritual successor" or even just an homage to Secret of Evermore? I don't claim my game will live up to that, but it's something to aim for.
Thanks for any help you can provide, /vr/.
>>2885616
>What do you feel like SoE did better than SoM?
I enjoyed the dark atmosphere much more.
>What did SoM do better than SoE?
I can't think of anything. Not saying its a bad game though. I love SoM, but there is nothing that really sets it apart, imo.
>What flaws did they both have?
Dumb partner A.I, at times. Though this didn't bother me that much, SoM seemed to be much worse.
>What would you look for in a game that claimed to be a "spiritual successor" or even just an homage to Secret of Evermore? I don't claim my game will live up to that, but it's something to aim for.
Just more of the same. Maybe touch up the hit detection. If its not broke, don't fix it.
>>2885616
have you checked the rebalance patch?
http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/602/
OP here. Also, check this trippy-ass commercial:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEu8wDAQuDk
I'm going to try and incorporate this vibe into the game as well.
I prefer the gritty setting over the poofy jrpg stuff. Reminds me of 80s-90s strategy/rpgs on DOS.
Also, SoE was Julian Soule's first professional work at the age of 20. (Skyrim), he did an amazing job at capturing the feeling of the game and translating it through sound. That game is defined by sound.
>>2885616
1. Nothing, it's trite garbage that flopped hard
2. SoM had better music, lush and colorful graphics and better combat, especially with 3 players and a multitap. SoM was also much more endearing than SoE's edgy, dirt world.
3. SoM's AI was a crapshoot, put people with friends and money could get a multitap.
SoE had a bland, colorless world, a boring MC and dog, crap combat and a meager soundtrack that was more ambient but sparse and boring. Terrible boss battles as well.
There's a reason SoE 2 never came to be. It was critically derided and was a commercial flop. People were expecting Seken Densetsu 3 and got a turd instead.
These days, you'll find a couple of SoE fans extolling the virtues of SoE over SoM. However,they're few and far between.
>>2885741
SoE was a better game. People didn't like it because it wasn't SD3, it had a very different tone than SoM, it was a bit too grindy, and it didn't have multiplayer.
Had it come first, and/or had people not believed the ridiculous rumors that SoE somehow prevented SD3 from getting localized, it wouldn't have received as much hate.
And critics don't actually determine if a thing is good. They just share their opinions and other people latch onto them as if they somehow fundamentally carry a lot of weight.
>>2885743
>didn't refute any claims but instead writes up a diatribe on critics and rumours
You can do all the mental gymnastics and lay the blame on the market you want. SoE pales in comparison to SoM and simply couldn't hold a candle to SD3. Market forces and critics of the day agreed, SoE was terrible and generally forgetable.
Anecdotely, nobody at school or the local EB liked it either.
>>2885650
>What did SoM do better than SoE?
>nothing
Top kek. SoE's grindy combat and lack of multiplayer for starters.
It's ugly, ugly world was also quite cancerous.
>>2885753
All I'm trying to say to you is that a game doing well or poorly financially doesn't actually mean that game is good or bad respectively. I think SoM and SoE are both great games, personally, but you can't look at this kind of thing in a vacuum.
1. Assertion followed by fact that may or may not actually have a bearing on anything.
2. SoE easily had better music. I agree SoM's world was generally prettier, and that it sucks that SoE lacked multiplayer.
3. The fact that you can mitigate something buy buying extra hardware doesn't make it not a problem. It just makes it a slightly smaller one than it would have been otherwise. SoE's AI was far better. I do agree it should have had multiplayer, though. But apparently that was due to hardware limitations.
As for SoE's MC being boring, I disagree strongly. His determination in the face of a bleak world, and fictional pop culture references, and the "a boy and his dog" angle were both interesting and a bit different from anything else at the time.
By the way, you were the one who brought up that people were expecting Seiken Densetsu 3, so let's not pretend it's irrelevant now, okay?
I disagree that SoE had better music than SoM, and vice versa. Both composers wrote soundtracks that were fit for their respective games. Putting them on an a comparative scale of quality is juvenile and proves a limited understanding of musical knowledge.
And for the record, I prefer SoE soundtrack over SoM, though I think SoM has better songs.
>>2885759
Who the fuck plays SoM for the multiplayer? It was cool for the time, but that one tiny aspect doesn't put it above SoE.
>>2885662
It's not a gritty setting. It's a bunch of cutesy, weak jokes that are given a sort of sinister, mysterious vibe by the graphics and especially the sound.
The result is generally nice but the concept beneath it is pretty dumb.
>>2885616
1) Everything except music. Evermore had better sound in general probably, though. Really atmospheric.
2) Awesome music.
3) No difficulty at all. Magic stupidly freezes enemies and is weirdly balanced. Charge-up attacks and the percentage meter are terrible. It's stupid to have to wait for 100%. It's stupid that even like 90% barely does anything. It's stupid to slowly charge up forever (while trudging along at half-speed) just to get some awkward, slow attack that does like half the damage of the several normal attacks you could have done in that time. Equipment is just boring upgrades to boring numbers. Status effects are either useless or overpowered. Ingredients (in Evermore) are so common/cheap you don't really need to care that they even exist. SoM was weird and buggy and badly translated. SoE was full of crappy "humor". Both games had simplistic stories with flat characters.
4) Some more of that amazing atmosphere, but with an actually good story, and actual mechanical challenge. (Probably you will not have the skills needed to produce even one of these three things. Not to insult you--they are difficult things to create.)
>1. What do you feel like SoE did better than SoM?
Atmosphere, music, graphics, and world design.
>2. What did SoM do better than SoE?
More satisfying final battle. You don't really get to fight the actual villain in SoE, just a robot that he controls from afar.
>3. What flaws did they both have?
Party members controlled by the AI are useless during boss fights.
>4. What would you look for in a game that claimed to be a "spiritual successor" or even just an homage to Secret of Evermore? I don't claim my game will live up to that, but it's something to aim for.
Alchemy spell system; individualistic story (e.g., getting home versus saving the world) that doesn't doesn't become something else towards the end (e.g., kid in SoE gets home and Evermore doesn't get saved); none-anime art style; Simple boss designs (i.e., no bazillion tentacles, heads, and limbs sprouting from everywhere on the body).
>>2887221
>It's a bunch of cutesy, weak jokes
>The result is generally nice but the concept beneath it is pretty dumb
First time I've ever heard someone say this about SoE. I guess there is a first time for everything.
>>2885616
I liked SOE more.
I liked the party system members and enemies more.
SoE was set more in a realistic setting...relatively...and that wasn't as fun to me.
Of course, I liked both games a lot and played them both a shit ton back when I was a kid.
I liked charging up attacks, even though it was stupid.
>>2885616
SoE >>> SoM
this is a good review of SoE :
http://www.actionbutton.net/?p=390
and it explains why SoE is better than SoM.
>Hurr durr my favorite secret of whatever game is better than yours which is shit
Why can't we enjoy both?
