Why did the Rareware developers decide to make the unarmed striking animation in Goldeneye a karate chop? This is something I've always wondered. Why not a regular punch, like in Perfect Dark and TWiNE? Is it a reference to one of the films?
Feel free to ask questions about extremely minute things in games here.
Another thing I've always wondered is why, after acquiring it, you instead use the sniper rifle's stock to attack enemies when unarmed. It's such a strange detail. Why the sniper rifle out of all guns?
Man, if only I could meet the developers. I'd have to so many autistic questions to ask them about this and Perfect Dark.
Because Bond chops Xenia in the movie.
I wonder if the Austin Powers director played Goldeneye
>>2871761
Hmm, I don't remember that part, but that's probably the reason. The developers for that game were extremely well versed in the Bond movies, and you can tell when you realize just how many references there are to all the various films, some very small.
>>2871780
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm_hStPa1gc
>>2871796
Nah, it's just business. She was the better fighter anyway, Bond would have lost if not for sauna coals and a gun. And then a parachute.
I'm pretty sure it's a running gag sort of thing in the Bond series.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHxgb9o0ALY
I reckon it's because Bond is a trained and professional fighter. A punch seems a lot more common. I don't know the advantages or disadvantages of either type of attack, but from a mainstream view a chop does seem a lot more sophisticated and professional. A chop also probably hurts less so better for long-term combat, I doubt all those kung-fu masters were just full of shit all this time.
>>2871752
>Is it a reference to one of the films?
Have you ever watched a spy movie?
>>2871752
Why did Nintendo EAD leave in the twenty-first/extra red coin in special level 3 of Yoshi's Island?
>>2871752
There's a scene in the Goldeneye movie where he karate chops a guy in the shoulder or neck to knock him out.
I couldn't quickly find the scene, anyone remember what part that was?
>>2871905
lol, should have read the next couple of replies first
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlx3ay8dELQ
>>2871752
Are you 12?
>>2871837
>uneducated hypothesizing about fighting
The post.
>>2871892
how do you people remember all those details??
>>2871765
I've always wanted to make an Austin Powers hack of GoldenEye
>>2876290
that would be groovy, sorry i could help my self
>>2871837
>A chop also probably hurts less so better for long-term combat, I doubt all those kung-fu masters were just full of shit all this time.
I loved how in Goldeneye, sometimes shooting random objects like chairs caused them to literally explode with fire and everything.
>>2876648
I loved how in Goldeneye, sometimes shooting enemies in the face caused them to not die, but only lose their hat.
>>2876290
Screw that. An Archer game in the vein of Goldeneye would kick more ass.
>>2876885
makes me think of the malkavian mod for deus ex
>>2876998
post one that comes to mind and we'll try to turn it around then
why did they make the klobb so underpowered in Goldeneye?
Its weaker than a kitten even when dual wielding
>>2874294
>goldeneye speedrun
>>2876658
this has ruined more than one attempt at a level for me.
>>2877689
perhaps that's the reason it's the main 'fake' gun? It wouldn't be proper to let one of the devs suck his dick in-game via a powerful gun that was named after him.
>>2876290
I'd be about that.
And here I thought this thread would be about the Facility time trial. I can do 2:05 but only on Secret Agent, 00 Agent doesn't give you the body armor and I can't even make it to Doak without dying.
>>2877689
They probably weren't concerned with creating "balanced" weaponry and always intended for the Klobb to be weak. This is obvious when you realize how common the Klobb is compared to powerful weapons like the AR33 and the RC-P90.
Also, you can usually get two of them in every level in appears in, and it does slightly more damage than the KF7 when dual wielded. (KF7 - 1 damage v. Dual Klobb - 1.2 damage)
>>2877834
>00 Agent doesn't give you the body armor and I can't even make it to Doak without dying.
And the fact that his spawning location is randomized also makes Facility hard as fuck for time trials and unlocking the invincibility cheat. If he's not in the first possible location you look, you're screwed.
I always wondered who the hell this random corpse is in Super Metroid.
>>2877852
i remember specifically trying to unlock invincibility and thinking it was next to impossible.
Until I watched an early internet vid on RealPlayer where I saw it being done.
Then it clicked for me and I think I got it in less than 10 tries.
But yeah... you had to wait for Doak to spawn in that one specific location, otherwise I'd just restart the mission
>>2877689
I think it's because they didn't take hexadecimal into consideration
Same thing happened to the RCP-90. It was supposed to have 50 rounds but 50 in hexadecimal = 80 in decimal.
>>2876648
i love when said random items would explode and kill you because you were too close, like the desks in the last part of the control level
>>2877689
>>2877834
>>2877850
>>2878249
>>2878274
>>2871905
When he clocks the Soviet on the toilet?
>>2878274
More like time to get abused on anything higher than Agent
>>2878013
Yeah, I know about Doak (the good spot is the second tank room, the left-hand door from the hallway with the three enemies, right?)
I just can't get there because of the damage you take from random k7 fire. My path is exit bathroom, sanic down stairs, open the back door, kill card key guard with pp7, open door to security keyboard, run in, open door, run out, and usually about there is where I die. I guess I need to get really good at quick kill shots/get really lucky on damage evasion?
>>2876998
drama queen
>>2878249
I don't buy that. As you pointed out, the RCP-90 had 80 shots instead of 50 due to a hex mistake. The thing is that hex converts values up for decimal equivalents, not down, meaning that if the klobb had been intended to do 50 per shot and an error like the RCP-90 one was made, then it would have gone up, doing 80 damage instead of 50.
As it is, I'm more convinced that they just put it in as a joke. Ken Lobb was a guy at Rare who worked on Goldeneye, why not use his name for a fake gun that's also weak as all hell?
Anyone ever seen this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYmqJl4MoNI
lmfao
>>2879346
I look forward to him putting I AM A FUCKING LEGEND on his tombstone.
>>2878013
it was done by a game informer guy back in the day. the article explaining it was good too. it was the only reason i got it after like +100 tries. still one of my greatest gaming achievements.
>>2875576
I play and 100% Yoshi's Island often? I only just found it a couple years ago after having beaten it dozens of times. There is one hidden under a pinwheel platform. The pinwheel platform is seated on a stompable pole. It's pretty tricky to actually get, but it's doable. You get to hear the '20 red coins' chime twice in one level, and it's pretty satisfying.
>>2879346
Obnoxious. Is he a teenager? I can't imagine a full grown adult saying "fuck" so much.
>>2879165
I agree with this.
Also, let's say that the "hex mistake" hypothesis is true: either way, they left it that way. This means the developers played through the game that way hundreds of times. Maybe even thousands.
Even if they didn't realize their mistake, they were satisfied with the Klobb's damage output, otherwise they would have changed it. This proves that they intended for the gun to be weak.
Besides, FPS's back then weren't really concerned with weapon balance. As well, none of the developers had ever worked on a FPS and some weren't even that familiar with the genre. They were more inspired by games like Contra where some weapons are clearly better than others.
>>2877864
just a random bounty hunter
Why does sleep Kirby wear that hat? Wear I'm from, nobody wears hats while sleeping.
Is this a thing in Japan? Or does he just wear that specific hat because all of his abilities feature hats? I feel like I've seen similar hats in anime, too, but I can't recall any specific instances.
>>2879551
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightcap_(garment)
>>2879557
Sweet. I found that interesting. Thanks.
It's funny how many archaic things still make their way into cartoons and whatnot.
For example, people slipping on banana peels. This was actually a huge issue in late 1800s US cities after bananas suddenly became extremely popular. There was actually a large number of deaths and injuries daily from people slipping on rotted banana peels. Rotted banana peels are extremely slippery. However, fresh banana peels (which is usually what they show in cartoons) are not slippery which is why so many are confused by this trope. In the era of Popeye and other comedic, early cartoons that showed this trope, people slipping on banana peels was no so far back so it made more sense.
>>2879551
the mascot of sleepy's mattress professionals wears a similar hat. I'm not sure what it's about, but there must be some historical reason.
>not knowing what a nightcap is
Sure is underage in here. haven't you ever seen a fucking cartoon that isn't pokiemons in your life?
Donald Duck, Mickey Mouse, even Monty fucking Burns wears one in the Simpsons.
And being Christmas, Ebenezer Scrooge from Dickens' Christmas Carol is usually depicted with one in all iterations of the visual character.
>>2871752
Using a karate chop to knock somebody out is a trope which is used to portray the character as a highly skilled professional or master of a fighting technique who knows exactly what they're doing.
Rather than just hitting them over the head like a neanderthal he is carefully hitting them with the correct technique in the correct spot to knock them out.
And yes, this trope was in the films too.
>>2879565
you have no idea how bad i want to post it right now.
>>2879565
>This was actually a huge issue in late 1800s US cities after bananas suddenly became extremely popular.
According to QI, banana peels were used as a euphemism for horse shit, which 19th centuries were completely full of.
>However, fresh banana peels (which is usually what they show in cartoons) are not slippery which is why so many are confused by this trope
Fresh peels are very slippery, provided there is some banana flesh left in the bottom of the skin.
>>2879667
..to post what?
>>2871752
>I HAVE NEVER SEEN A JAMES BOND FILM
Why is Battletoads not a more dedicated beat em up game for? I always thought it was but over half the game is autoscrollers or platforming.
It's stupid because:
1) it's called BATTLETOADS
2) the fighting is actually much more fun
3) the best level for the classical beat em up gameplay is the very first level
This game is massively overrated because of this. TMNT IV Turtles in Time, Streets of Rage and Castle Crashers are way better then Battletoads. It also didn't need to be so unnecessarily hard.
>>2880231
>Castle Crashers
Stop trying to sneak in discussion of not-retro games.
>>2878281
I swear that gun shot paper clips
>>2880231
>castle crashers
Contain this shit. Contain your damn shit dick drinking modern games...
>>2876586
Shut the fuck up. Your picture means NOTHING. It is NONSENSE. My post was a good one: karate chops hurt the hand less in the long-term. I'm tired of idiots coming in posting completely irrelevant pictures as if they mean something or convey some idea where another person is supposedly lame when they do not and they are not.
>>2880128
Have you even read the thread?
>>2880231
congratulations sir, in a thread full of shitty opinions, yours is undisputed the shittiest
>>2880587
No, here's what's wrong with chops:
1) The side of the hand is soft and a lot wider than the area of the knuckles. This means your blow is delivered with extra padding over a wider surface area, resulting in far less damage than a punch.
2) This is the more important part, a chop to a hard area will result in a dislocated wrist because there's no structure to support a hard chop's follow-through. With a punch, thrown properly, the shock is absorbed through the hand, wrist, and arm. With a chop, all the shock goes through the wrist, at an angle that the wrist doesn't bend in.
3) The more punches you throw against a target, the stronger the bones of the hand get. You can see any number of examples of fighters whose hand bones are denser than a normal person. As you throw punches, your bones get microscopic breaks, which heal and add density to the bone. This is the basis of hand-strengthening (osteoclerosis)- there aren't very many analogous examples to strength the wrist against bending sideways, the motion that a chop would produce. In short, you don't WANT to go easy on the hands, especially if the tradeoff is increased stress on the wrist.
>>2880606
There is one advantage of chops though, and that is positioning. You can't exactly hit the base of the neck from the side with your knuckles (as your fingers will block the way). That's why you need to use a chop if you want to hit there. And you want to hit there because iirc there is a cluster of nerves there, which, if hit properly, can knock someone out. And that's something you can't really do using your knuckles.
>>2871752
What exactly is going on in the conversation that occurs between the two NPCs underneath the lamppost here? I can't remember their conversation exactly, but it's very confusing and then they strangely both fall down. I never understood wtf is going on there.
The conversation that's occurring in the screenshot is NOT the one I'm talking about before anyone gets confused. I just couldn't find a screenshot of the conversation between the two NPCs beneath the lamppost.
>>2880639
You're talking about the vagus nerves, yes? It's not anatomically possible to deliver a knockout blow to those without also delivering enough force to wreck someone anyway, so the chop KO can't be done.
Easiest thing is to just lay something handy across the back of their skull, anyway.
>>2881070
I think they're fucking
>>2880606
Okay, well the question was about why it was put in the game, ie. how the mainstream would interpret it, not people who have their own theories on how fighting works best.
You seem to know a few things about it, however you don't even mention the chopping of blocks and the martial arts that a lot of people view very highly that are based on karate chops. You act like this entire way of fighting doesn't exist. I was going at it from the perspective of what it appears to be in the game. But you also don't persuade me that punching really is more professional.
>>2881269
samefag.
Also I am not interested in physical justifications on how a hand is used best because it's too complicated for that and there could be all kinds of exceptions. It's not middle-school physics, it's something uncalculably complicated.
>>2881269
Nobody chops blocks - they use a "hammer" motion which again, lets the shock get absorbed through the wrist and elbow and shoulder. There's a difference, nobody locks their wrist and swings from the elbow like you would with a chop - the entire arm is rotating and following through in a way you can't do with a chop. The position of the fingers, in this situation, is actually negligible because neither the knuckles nor the side of the hand (depending on whether or not you closed your fist at the impact) is actually breaking the block.
The best examples of how practical chops are are to seem them used in applicable combat situations, which in these times would be MMA. Notwithstanding that MMA has a set of rules and restrictions, it's noteworthy that of all the impractical techniques that are being used (mainly in the kicking department), chops aren't being used at all.
Being back on topic, as you suggest, the reason why Bond chops was because, as I said in the second or third reply, specifically because he chops Xenia, and that shishi martial art aesthetic of using "judo chops!" has been a staple of spy movies, just as highly scientifically inaccurate gadgets and improbably named sidekicks are.
>>2881269
Not that guy, but;
>however you don't even mention the chopping of blocks and the martial arts that a lot of people view very highly that are based on karate chops.
Breaking wood and cinder blocks is a pointless gimmick anyway, but if you pay attention you'll see that the motion is less like a "chop" and more like a punch that uses the meat of the palm closest to the right side of the wrist.
>You act like this entire way of fighting doesn't exist.
It fucking doesn't. Literally the only idiots who teach and practice that shit like it's practical are people who train at McDojos and have worthless 5th dan black-belts in something that was made up by some nerd in the last century. Nobody fights like that. Wait, scratch that, let me rephrase. Nobody fights like that and wins.
>>2879607
How do I up vote on this site? This is a good comment.
>>2879723
>>2879667
He means this.
>>2880231
Think about most retro games, moreso the hard ones like battle toads.
You spend most of your time on the first level that's why for most people the first few stages are thier favourite music, levels.
>>2880639
>this nigga thinks he's Leonard Nimoy.
>>2881359
How do you know that's the image he wanted to post? And why didn't he just post it in the first place? I'm very confused.
>>2881471
It's 4chan famous, that's why.
>>2881361
I get your point but in Battletoads the game clearly takes an absolute dive after the first level. The first level is so promising and then the game just get's shittier and shittier as it goes on. Had it not been for it's difficulty reputation the series would be in the dust bin of history long forgotten. I seriously couldn't say the same for others like Mega Man, Super Mario Bros and certain other games. Dark Souls may have been marketed as a difficult game but at least it was a great game on top of the difficulty. Battletoads is just meh gameplay and too hard for it's own good. Reminds me of games like I Wanna Be The Boshy. No one would bother to play such garbage if it wasn't difficult. Since plenty of games do what it does far better. I'm all for difficulty but the game needs to still be great.
>>2881371
They are being way too autistic. I should have just listed off a few more retro beat em up's I liked like Guardian Heroes and Golden Axe.
>>2881825
the first level of battletoads is like a hundred other boring repetitive beat em up games. you are true pleb.
