-The graphics are bad, I can't enjoy it.
-The reboot is better, the old version is a bad game because audiences didn't know any better.
-It was "Good for its time."
-This game is too hard. I'm not bad at this, but I can't beat it in 5 hours. That means it has artificial difficulty which makes it bad.
-This is a clunky UI, I can't get passed this
Are we the ones out of touch, or is it the children?
>>2852963
This is a /b/ tier shitpost.
ebin image macro
"it's dated"
"it hasn't aged well"
anyway it's not just children saying this shit, also stupid adults who aren't really very knowledgeable of the medium they're talking about.
Nostalgiafags BTFO!
Has become the 'u mad?' of discussing reboots/sequels of old games on /v/
>-This is a clunky UI, I can't get passed this
Totally valid complaint, you try playing some older Amiga rpg where you have to use multiple keyboard shortcuts plus mouse for every single action or playing a point and click game on a console with joystick controls and tell me they ain't awful.
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>>2853034
Honestly I like tank controls, I feel like it adds to the sense of urgency in RE
>this game aged badly
>>2852963
Not enough non white people
muh misogyny
>>2853034
Tank controls have always been shit. This is the line where you really are just deluding yourself. It's telling that even games where you actually control tanks tend to avoid using them.
>the game tutorials need to be intuitive
>I shouldn't have to read the manual
>>2853034
Even as a fan of RE and Parasite Eve I think that tank controls have never been done really well.
>>2852963
>"Turned-based gameplay is for spergs I get bored within SECONDS!"
Every time some idiot says this they immediately convey to me that they have the attention span of a small rodent. It's fine to not like games like that, its just not your thing, but to act superior over it is so dumb. You're just a fucking idiot.
Reminds me of all the people that brag about being terrible at following directions when it comes to cooking. OH LOOK AT ME I'M SO STUPID I CAN'T EVEN MAKE A FRIED EGG AHAHAHAHAHAAH
I've decided to not let myself get bitter, though it doesn't mean I won't call out people for being idiots.
I can't stand the "it hasn't aged well" shit
I want normalfag shitters to stay away from my hobby.
>>2853121
It's an excuse, really.
>>2853121
some games haven't aged that well though, like the first tomb raider or chrono cross
>>2853114
>Turn-based combat is obsolete and a product of the technological limits of the era
even if there were unlimited action games in real time at the time, or people still play chess and PnP tabletop rpg
>>2853135
I beat TR recently(for the 1st time the whole series was on sale for pennies on Steam) and had a lot of fun, but it was only after I modified the controls a bit so I guess I could understand your point if you elaborate.
>>2853135
but it's normally used when a retard can't bother to get accustomed to the quirks of the control or the system in less than 15 minutes. 80% of the "hasn't aged well" comments belongs to this spergy category.
>>2853140
Yeah. Basically all they do when they say that shit is that well, they're desperate for something to validate their shit opinion no matter what it is and no matter what evidence there is to the contrary.
The hate for Turn based combat has exploded now that Final Fantasy VII's remake is going to be different. And all these people are very desperate for their shitty stupid opinion to be validated as fact.
I'm not even opposed to the changes myself, but all the people sucking Square off over it certainly are doing me a favor. Makes it easier to avoid stupid and bads.
>>2853154
FFVII Remake isn't going to be turn based? What kind of remake is this? It might as well be reconstruction or retelling of the plot instead of the traditional remake kinda thing
The worse three for me are
“It’s only costs (w/e online service or DLC costs) just buy it. Or are you poor”
“Modern games are still great. Just ignore the AAA games.” Usually goes on to praise only select AAA games.
“The PS2 was the most important thing to happen to video games”
>>2853204
The ps2 REALLY pushed for games to be mainstream. The ps1 started it, the ps2 solidified it. So the ps2 is ONE of the most important things to happen to MODERN vidya...for better or for worse depending on who you ask
>>2853209
Naw it was objectively trash.
-It was a DVD player first and a game console second.
-The worse graphics of the gen.
-Interlaced shit everywhere.
The only thing good about is subjective and that’s the game quality. That I can’t argue since I agree there are a lot of good games. Unfortunately, many of those games were crippled.
The only reason the PS2 sold like it did was the digital revolution of media. DVDs made the PS2 not games.
>>2853217
>-It was a DVD player first and a game console second.
[citation needed]
>>2853217
I never said it was amazing(i like it tho) I just said it helped make vidya more mainstream
>>2853218
Sony
>>2853221
I'd argue the GameBoy did that.
>>2852963
>This is a clunky UI
Some games legit had fucking clunky UIs. Fallout is a great game but the UI isn't even close to as good as the one in Baldur's Gate
>>2853034
Tank controls were ALWAYS bad in the context of fixed camera angles, it's a very clumsy way to orient a character through a space. Tank controls only ever feel right with chasecam or first person persepective.
There's no reason you couldn't have had much better controls, not with the advent of dual sticks, pre-rendered environments with fixed camera angles aren't an excuse.
It's a testament to REs appeal that it's loved despite the awful controls early in the series.
>>2852985
I think this can be a legit complaint for early 3D console games, people were still figuring out that shit in 5th gen, and some games did things that were actually very bad in retrospect, which isn't to say it can't still be a good game and that you can't appreciate it for what it is, but with some of my favorite retro games I can look back and think "Jesus Christ why did they do THAT?" but I'll also have to stop myself and consider that what is obvious now wasn't necessarily obvious then.
>>2853204
So you're saying there are no good games made these days?
I dislike a lot about the AAA industry but there's still fun games being made.
>>2853148
I grew up with Goldeneye 64, know it like the back of my pocket, it's dear to me, but in some manners, it hasn't aged in the best of ways (really mainly controls).
It's not unplayable or anything, and I understand that there's only so much you can do with the N64 pad, but there's really a bunch of idiosyncrasies in the controls that are jusy unintuitive from a modern perspective.
>>2853217
>-It was a DVD player first and a game console second.
Hence the name "Playstation 2 Computer Entertainment System", am I right?
>-The worse graphics of the gen.
What are you, a graphics whore?
>-Interlaced shit everywhere.
What's that even supposed to mean.
>>2853914
>Tank controls were ALWAYS bad in the context of fixed camera angles
Colossal retard. Should be put on exhibition.
>>2853935
It means he's a cunt who thinks everyone was paying $4000 for progressive scan televisions and also forgot that the PS2 supports that output.
>>2853967
>PS2 supports that output
Nobody cares about the DVD player function. The games are almost exclusively forced interlaced.
>>2853217
>-It was a DVD player first and a game console second.
nobody outside of forums ever said this you sperg
>This game doesn't control similarly to or exactly like another, more popular game, and I refuse to take time to learn and adapt to its control scheme, therefore the controls are clunky and shit.
>>2853204
>What, you don't want to pay [amount of money] for [service or feature that used to be free]? What are you, poor?
FUCK THESE PEOPLE.
>>2852963
>you just hate change!
Gets me everytime.
>>2853121
Usually that means that control mechanics are obsolete. Like discreet mouse moving or "tractor" in FPS.
>>2852963
Its children and normies(guys with no taste and a lot of free time to hate everything they dont like) dont even try to over think about it.
>>2854028
As a Fallout fan (the classic ones), you can guess how many times I've listened that. FF7 fans should be prepared for the remake
>>2853154
>The hate for Turn based combat has exploded now that Final Fantasy VII's remake is going to be different
Much, much sooner. Fallout 3 anyone?
>>2854036
Ah, fellow vault dweller. I am not purist about isometric view or turn-based combat, but the argument itself is stupid.
Also
>November 10, 2015
>The day when jaded gems of hatred(tm) realised that Fallout 3 wasn't all that bad
>it aged like milk
Aged Milk is called Cheese and it's fucking great.
>>2853962
Nice ad-hom, senpai, I really see things your way now.
My point is that tank controls are a poor choice for fixed camera, it feels unintuitive, it always did, even back in the day.
RE4 has pretty much the same control scheme as earlier titles, like Code Veronica. The difference is that the camera follows your character because the environment is actually 3D now, so the movement feels natural. Pressing up to move forward and left and right to align feels horrible if your perspective doesn't adjust with it.
The old games would have played infinitely better if you used the left stick for moving the character on screen and the right stick for aiming. In Super Mario 64 you only have one stick, but Mario moves in the direction you move it, this works phenomenally even in rooms with largely fixed perspectives, and feels natural.
The first Resident Evil game came before the gamepad had sticks, I get that, but they really should have improved the control scheme for the later titles, you don't HAVE to have tank controls just because the perspective is fixed.
>>2854057
If it's aged properly, otherwise you get shitty cheese (also I think it becomes some sort of yoghurt first).
I don't think a game having aged badly means it's worthless. Typically, the only things that I think age badly in old games are controls (and the PS2 is way more guilty of this than any 3rd, 4th or 5th gen system I can think of). I can get around that, but that doesn't mean I won't criticize it.
>>2852985
It's a legitimate complaint, though. Pokémon R&B were amazing back in the day, but are difficult to go back to because they're so goddamn slow and broken.
There are Game Boy games that are still great - Mario Land 2 and 3 are two that have aged pretty well for example, so it's not due to the technical limitations of the console itself.
>>2853140
I know, man. I mean, it's probably true - turn-based games were 'a product of their time', but I'm sure many people (myself included) prefer turn-based RPGs over their real-time equivalents. I don't see why everything has to be in real time today, really (although it's probably because the 'smartphone generation' is more accustomed to doing repetitive actions at all times without stopping to think).
>>2853198
Not trying to derail the thread off to this too, but if the thread with the trailer link is still around take a look at it for proof. Basically it looks like they're going ARPG or some sort of hybrid.
>>2852986
People saying "nostalgiafag" or similar is the equivalent of them yelling in your ear that they are under 20 years old.
>>2853923
>So you're saying there are no good games made these days?
Few and very far between.
>Good for It's time
The only valid point here, and it only applies to a few games.
>>2852963
>It was "Good for its time."
I hate this expression so much you have no idea.
Using that expression mean you go on the premise that the more recent a game is, the better it is.
As if technological advencement alone is what made games. That's exactly what publishers and console makers want people to believe so they keep buying their shit at the high price.
So people saying this are just blind consumer victims, they barely have an opinion of their own and their taste is dictated by capitalism; and they don't even realize it.
>>2854290
They say that implying that we "didn't know better". It's rage inducing indeed.
>>2854290
This. One of my close friends can't play shit pre-2007 and walks around claiming he's into shit like Dragon Quest because it thinks it gives him credibility. He's never played any of these games he fucking claims he's into and at one time I let it bother me.
These days I have let it go, but 6 years later he's still walking around claiming he's into that shit but at the same time saying the only reason I'm into older shit is that I played games younger than him. He's a functioning idiot, but I love the guy.
>>2854167
>My point is that tank controls are a poor choice for fixed camera
>The old games would have played infinitely better if you used the left stick
>you don't HAVE to have tank controls just because the perspective is fixed.
And that's why you're a colossal retard, just like I said earlier. With relative to the scene controls that you're proposing the same input applies to different camera angles which means that after the first perspective change character usually moves in the wrong direction and player can only deal with it or readjust controls direction by releasing the stick. To me it doesn't sound like infinitely better control scheme, quite the opposite actually, probably because I don't have a load of dog shit instead of brains.
>>2852963
>-The graphics are bad, I can't enjoy it.
And yet, almost any time a new game comes out where the graphics are pixelated (probably just to save costs and time) old gamers will jump all over it for how it looks.
There have always been graphic whores. They're always equally stupid.
>>2854346
>And yet, almost any time a new game comes out where the graphics are pixelated (probably just to save costs and time) old gamers will jump all over it for how it looks.
This is essentially the same thing as "omfg look at those reflections", except retro.
>>2854354
Pretty much yeah. Not that I don't enjoy nice graphics, but they're hardly what's really important to a game.
>>2854346
>And yet, almost any time a new game comes out where the graphics are pixelated (probably just to save costs and time) old gamers will jump all over it for how it looks.
OMG SO 80S XDD hipsters are not necessary "oldgamers", anon.
>>2852963
Those are all legitimate complaints under the right circumstances. Just to look at a few, Atari still has a lot of charm but if you can't tell what a sprite is supposed to be then I would say the graphics are bad because they are not properly conveying to the player vital information. But on the other hand they were "good for its time" because it was the best they could do, but looking back the game very well be almost unplayable.
>>2852963
"I CAN'T PLAY THIS BAD GAME! I NEED MY TRIPLE-A!"
I swear to god I heard a kid say that at the library today. I seriously considered putting him out of his misery.
I just don't get the concept of a game 'not aging well'. If it was good back when it was released, why is it not good now? It's not like what made it fun is going anywhere.
>>2854346
Because being low res is a free pass to have effortless garbage as an art?
>>2853072
UNLESS you're actually using a tank. Then it is entirely appropriate.
Like return fire or something.
>>2854397
I like how all the blocky graphics from "retro" indies highlights the truth: all these hipsters making these games started playing "retro" games in huge HDTVs in their 360 or emulated full screen in huge ass monitors. Everyone who played old games in CRTs can't accept the graphic abomination of current retro indies.
>>2854346
>old gamers will jump all over it for how it looks.
This literally never happens. Art styles are a different matter though.
>turn based is boring and archaic!
>all jrpgs are boring and take no skill, it's just mash X to attack and grind if you can't beat a boss! I know it because I played Earthbound!
>turn-based RPGs were only made because of technical limitations, the developers always wanted them to be action RPGs, so their vision can finally come true! What do you mean Secret of Mana? What do you mean FFX on PS2 was turn-based? H-haha, you're just a BTFO'ed nostalgiafag!
>>2854417
>all jrpgs are boring and take no skill, it's just mash X to attack and grind if you can't beat a boss! I know it because I played Earthbound!
i hate this shit because it's so common, games like earthbound and pokemon are supposed to be babby's first jrpgs, not something to judge the rest of the genre against.
>>2853914
>Tank controls were ALWAYS bad in the context of fixed camera angles
Are you serious right now? Tank controls are the only appropriate control scheme for games with fixed camera angles. When you hold forward you shouldn't suddenly turn your ass around when the camera angle changes. That's horrible. I played Resident Evil Remake with the new control scheme and it sucked. When you don't know what's ahead of you, at least you know you're still walking forward when you get to the next screen if you use tank controls. This is coming from someone who never played the original RE or the Gamecube version by the way.
>>2853221
>it helped make vidya more mainstream
So did every popular console. I don't get this complaint. It's not like video games weren't popular during the Atari 2600 or NES or Genesis days.
>>2854405
>Art styles are a different matter though.
What??? Art style is what I'm talking about. And yes, older gamers do it all the time.
>>2854396
Some games get improved on to the point that the older version just isn't as much fun in comparison to what it's like now.
Street Fighter is a good example. People certainly had a lot of fun with Street Fighter. It was considered a pretty good game. But when SFII came along, it improved so much on what the original had done that the first game really was obsolete.
>>2854417
The funniest part is that so few people have actually completed or even played many of the games that take blows from these brats. I mean, how many people under 25 have even played Earthbound or Chrono Trigger, or really any old RPG? I always like to ask leading questions to find out how full of shit people are. Usually less than half of the people I meet in person can even convince me they've played the game they say is "Only good in the memories of Nostalgiafags." It's a classic case of the ol' "Stop liking things that are dated/I don't like/big gaming tells me not to like because they don't profit from it." typical bullshit. I was a kid in the early 90's, and being able to go back and play the great games of the 80's on older kids' consoles was like a cool privilege, because they were still great games. It's like this culture of "OLD IS BAD" has been spoon-fed to a whole generation by the industry, but then this oxymoronic loop is happening where teenagers always have to be all-knowing and only right, so they make these absurd claims that they can't support. It's actually good for a decent chuckle.
>>2854397
You misunderstand. In the old days, low res art in games was there because of technical limitations. These days they are there mostly because of financial limitations.
Art, especially good art is time consuming to produce even if you're skilled. Someone trying to make a game on their own or with only a small group of people will have limited resources. So it's likely that they will put more into game design than graphics.
The thing I'm pointing out is that for many of us who grew up in the early days of gaming, it was a very common sentiment that the graphics were one of the least important things in a game. What really mattered was how well designed it was and if it was fun to play.
Now though things have come full circle. We're in a position where if an independent game is released that doesn't have amazing graphics, it gets shit on extremely hard for it. Even worse if the person dares to use pixel art.
Not that I'm a great lover of pixel art, but I do understand why it gets used so much. The video game medium suits it well and it's quick and easy to make a tileset for a game.
>>2852963
People that cant use google.
Not video games but same thing is going on with music.
If its not on iTunes played on beats its shit.
>>2854492
Please tell me you didn't think he was being serious.
>>2854397
>>2854403
I can respect a game using pixel art for creating a specific look. But I hate it when they start spewing stuff like "beautifully hand pixeled retro graphics".
NO! Old games NEVER looked like that. The style and techniques are wrong. You scale and rotate pixel sprites. You add modern light effects. And it's not beautiful!
Pixel art can be done well though. Lots of modern indie titles have really great art. No reason to hate just because it's pixels...
Shantae or Giana Sisters DS are great titles that use pixel art the right way.
On the other hand a lot of non-pixel games have almost more off-putting graphics. Often they look like cheap flash movies or babbys first 3DSMAX. Yurraaghh!
>>2853117
It has the same controls, autist.
>>2854550
We misuse the word "retro" around here. Technically it's all about style, specifically imitating styles from the recent past. So in reality, they're being accurate. The games don't literally look like old games, but they are reminiscent of the style. So that makes them retro.
The graphics in old games aren't retro. They're old. It's not the same thing.
>>2854465
the people who hate on RPGs are the rest of the gaming community because you fucking sperglords never shut the fuck up about how fucking great they are and how final fantasy 3/6 is the best game on the super nintendo/ever. Seriously you guys just sound super butthurt because nobody gives a shit about them anymore.
>>2854554
Are you twelve years old or something? Who seriously talks like that? It really hurts the argument you're trying to make when you sound like a mouth breathing retard who can't say anything without swearing.
>>2854554
What's funny about your sperg tirade is that kingdom hearts is exactly what is wrong with modern JRPGs.
>>2854565
yeah but its also what brough a whole bunch of new fans to the genre. Nobody really thought chrono trigger of FF3 were the best games of all time apart from gamefags posters.
>>2854562
RPGs are press A to win, I had to swear because you obviously don't understand that and your shitty sarcasm didn't make it any less true.You fucking retard
>>2854564
go back to gamefaqs.
>>2854558
Fair enough, but if the word "retro" just means any form of pixel graphics, then the word has lost any important meaning.
My point is that these people are basically saying "This game has GRAPHICS"!
>>2854572
Anything you say is worthless if you have to resort to swearing in an attempt to get your point across. I may even agree with your general sentiment, but you sound like such a complete idiot when you type that it makes everything you say invalid.
Seriously, how old are you? I'm genuinely curious now.
Its always fun to see who's underaged in these topics.
>>2854579
It doesn't mean that at all. It's meaning has nothing to do with pixels. It's about imitation of styles of the past. But yes, I agree that the statements they make don't have a lot of substance.
I think pixel art can occasionally be really beautiful and when it is, I'm happy. Otherwise I just look at the way I used to look at games. If it's fun and looks great then that's a bonus, but what's important is whether it's fun.
>>2854580
Had to resort to swearing? Project harder, it wasn't to get a point across either. It was just stating a fact. If RPG fans aren't "fucking sperglords" than why has that shitty indie game undertale exploded like that. Only the spergers play that game and they are totally letting everybody know just like they did with chrono trigger.
>>2854601
w8 w8 w8, so Undertale IS a RPG?
>>2852963
>-It was "Good for its time."
This is a legitimate criticism.
Go back and play the original Dragon Quest. I mean the original Famicom Dragon Quest. Tell me it's playable by todays standards.
That game blew Japans mind when it was released. But it's one hell of a chore to play nowadays.
>>2854601
You sound like a five year old having a tantrum because chocolate isn't everyone's favorite ice cream.
>>2854601
Why doesn't it surprise me that this all just butthurt over Undertale? Sorry your gamefaqs poll didn't work out how you wanted kiddo.
>>2854601
>bringing Undertale into this
>>>/v/
And I assure you JRPG fans aren't the reason Undertale became so popular. In fact, FFVII and CT fans on le gamefaqs bogeyman are fairly salty about its current success in the polls. If anything, seasoned JRPG players wouldn't be that impressed with Undertale, its primary fanbase are "wrong generation" kids who maybe watched an Earthbound let's play on youtube once.
>>2854606
No I am a 5 year old having a tantrum because you fagets are telling me chocolate is everyones favourite ice cream. I know you just got into retro gaming recently but it used to be nobody gave a fuck about retro games unless they were jrpgs. Nobody gave two shits about anything that wasn't final fantasy until AVGN made it mainstream.
>>2854602
It's an autism simulator
>>2854601
>Had to resort to swearing? Project harder
How is that guy even remotely projecting? You seriously don't seem to know what this phrase means and that is hilarious.
>>2854612
> its primary fanbase are "wrong generation" kids who maybe watched an Earthbound let's play on youtube once.
IE everybody on this board.
>>2854617
Because it wasn't to prove a point. He is projecting because he thinks people swear to add to their argument and not because that's just how some people communicate, you don't see it as projecting because you agree with him. Don't be stupid
>>2854615
>No I am a 5 year old having a tantrum because you fagets are telling me chocolate is everyones favourite ice cream.
Implying that's any less idiotic. Learn to think for yourself and you won't get your panties in such a twist that not everyone shares your tastes.
You're making my day. Please keep getting angry over some video game.
>>2853217
first to banned on planes. was practically a computer, could take extra storage.There are plenty of good shit on the ps2.GTA? If that game was all that came out for the console, it alone would have made ps2.
>>2854626
I'm not projecting anything. I'm making fun of you because you're too stupid to express yourself without swearing up and down like a spoiled child. It makes everything you say meaningless when you sound that stupid.
If a kid with Down's Syndrome walked in the room and started yelling about why people don't all agree with him that Final Fantasy VII is a better story than Moby Dick people would just laugh at him and not take anything he says seriously.
This is the exact same situation, with you as the down's kid and all of us mocking you.
>>2854605
Not that guy, but to illustrate the point, you step on a stair tile, and you have to enter a menu and select "Go up/Go down". I think you also had to to the same with "talk". It makes sense when you consider whoever programmed the thing didn't have much of a concept of context sensitive controls, but that wasn't uncommon at the time.
>>2854627
wait the original argument was JRPGS suck because they are press A to win
the only refute from the JRPG crowd so far has been NUH UH.
You guys are spergers because you think your games are gods gift to man kind even though they are just press A to win. Which is fine but doesnt make it the best.
All the "best" Jrpgs and if they can be press A to win'd
Chrono Trigger = Yes
Super Mario RPG = Yes
Final Fantasy 7 = Yes
Final Fantasy 6 = Yes
Lufia 2 = Yes
Dragon Quest 5 = Yes
Earthbound (kek) = Yes
I like all those games but they are still press A to win, doesnt matter if you min/max them they can still be beaten with 0 effort too.
>>2854639
No one feels the need to refute anything you say with logic or points because no one cares what you think. I don't even love RPGs. I'm just making fun of you because you sound like a mouth breathing retard and you're upset because there are people out there who like a genre you don't.
You're either a child or an adult acting like one. Which it is doesn't really matter. It's funny either way.
>>2854639
define effort? it's a game man. it's recreation. Its like a reading a book, its like enacting in a role, its a fucking R P G, a button masher would just kill the mood. Just concentrate gear up learn secrets and shit. It's a valid genre, it has its place.
>>2854639
Final Fantasy 7 is press O to win, retard.
>>2854643
You're not making fun of anything lmao. Wow you pointed out my own shit posting while I was well aware I was doing it. You sound like you have aspergers. Like am I supposed to feel guilty or bad lmao?
>>2854646
I always liked the RPGs that made sure you were paying attention to the game. If a monster or something has a projected weakness the game should make you figure that out instead of letting the stupid people just brute force it too. Final Fantasy Legend 2 is impossible to grind and you actually have to use strategy to win, and it was way more fulfilling than most console RPGs people praise the shit out of.
Final Fantasy 6 is fucking boring m8. I tried to like it, Its just so fucking slow.
>>2854639
>FFVI
>press A
>die to Whelk
>FFVII
>press A
>die to Guard Scorpion
>CT
>press A
>die to Yakra
>SMRPG
>technically you can press A to win, but it's a terrible example because SMRPG is one of the few JRPGs that rewards technical skill
Biblically Epic
Also the entire JRPG difficulty argument falls flat when you realize that you can impose challenges on yourself or simply not grind, and if you say "well that's not how the games were supposed to play" then shmups also suck and aren't a challenging genre either because technically they weren't designed around 1cc's and you can credit feed them until you win
>>2854656
How is that relevant I wasn't pretending I was fully aware of what i was doing. I just wanted some aspie to reply to me cause I wanted the attention.
>>2854650
I'm making fun of your 0/10 level shitposting. It's comical to me how upset you are over Undertale and JRPG fans.
>>2854661
>Honest guys! I was being stupid on purpose! Believe me! Did I win the internet yet? Am I coool?
>>2854639
for a guy that hates jrpg, you surely have played a lot of them
>>2854639
You're right in that camp yourself, since every time a JRPG decides that tactics are the best way to win guys like you shit all over them.
Final Fantasy 2, 4, 12, and 13 all deviated from that formula and all are derided constantly. Phantasy Star has ever shied away from it, and it gets belittled as "a Segafag thing."
You sure as shit can't "X to win" Vagrant Story, or Parasite Eve, or anything from the Shin Megami line.
You can cherry-pick your examples all you want but trying to pigeon-hole all these disparate games with only an association with a single genre is ludicrous.
>>2854674
But IV is an eminent example of X to win.
>>2854676
I double-fucking-dare you to not use magic or abilities in 4.
You done fucked up bad, anon.
>>2854693
Not him and it's far from ideal. But I have a friend who as a little kid played through FFIV and never did anything except attack because he didn't know how to play. I don't know how much grinding he did, but he did beat it that time.
Generally speaking though I agree with you, not using the abilities it hands you makes things much more of a chore. Although there are some RPGs you can beat by just attacking with everyone every round, it's never the optimal way to play.
>>2854665
I said I wanted attention I wasn't trying to impress anyone. You really are dense kid.
>>2854674
I love final fantasy 2, I hate jrpg fans because they want more crap and less games with real mechanics.
>>2854669
Where did I say I hated them? People here are so fucking dense man just because you criticize something strongly doesnt mean you hate it. I said I hated how fans think their genre is the best ever even thought its press A to win, I didnt say I hate JRPGS because they are press A to win. People wonder why I flip out and swear but this place is full of retards who can't read.
>>2854718
If you settle for people all making fun of how stupid you are as the kind of attention you wanted, that's pretty sad. You must be extremely lonely.
>>2854729
>People wonder why I flip out and swear but this place is full of retards who can't read.
No one is going to put any effort into reading what you wrote seriously when you act like a child. That's the point.
When you swear and say fuck every second word it doesn't matter even a little if the point behind it was valid. You invalidated yourself when you chose to act like an idiot.
>>2854738
>1+1 = fucking 2
>NO UR WRONG
thats you, you fucking pussy ass bitch faggot nigger retard lmao
>>2854735
positive or negative didnt matter I just wanted to fite like a drunk idiot.
>>2854754
I just get frustrated and need to vent my rage somewhere. Sorry for the shitposting I know I am a retard but I need to blow off some steam cause exploding at lefitsts in this day and age costs you your job.This is my safe space
>>2854763
>exploding at lefitsts in this day and age costs you your job
good.
>>2854774
feminist detected
>It's too gamey
>>2854330
>>2854445
Or, get this, when the angle switches, the character keeps moving in the direction he was already moving in until you let go of the stick.
Super Mario 64 did this and it worked perfecly.
>>2854265
Because shit games never were a thing until 6th gen. 80% of the NES library was varying degrees of unmemorable and garbage, 90% of the Atari 2600 library was unmemorable or garbage. This doesn't mean these systems didn't have lots of good games.
There was always cancer, it just changes shape, don't act like it's a new thing.
>>2854396
It's relative, but I can imagine if say, a console only had one game in this genre, and it's ok, sort of flawed but it's there, then a year later, another game (or a sequel or spinoff even) comes along, it does everything the previous one did but so much better, it has better gameplay, better controls, better replayability and way more content. It doesn't remove the merits of the other game, but when the later game was just so much better and the older one has little going for it, the flaws and bad design choices become rapidly apparent.
>>2854601
>I came here to tell people how mad I am about undertale
... and then Anon was autistic.
>>2854763
>shouting like a manchild and being generally unproffessional cost me my job
>this is because of leftists
If you can't restrain yourself that's your own fault, you let the feminists win.
Yes, I AM victim blaming on you right now.
>muh safe space
And you have the gall to complain about leftism.
>>2855015
>And you have the gall to complain about leftism.
Calm your triggers, Comrade. He was being ironic.
>>2854583
>imitation
Yes, that's the point. It's evocative, not representative. Good pixel art exists, but because modern computers don't need simplified images any longer, it's become hard to find good pixel artists and even harder to become one.
If you want a good example of authentic retro aesthetics, take a look at "You Have to Win the Game". It's free!
A few stupid shit I've heard modern audiences say:
>They totally ripped off an ancient game! It's not original!
>Games these days are too accessible, they should remove tutorials and toss players in without help like they used to
>Modern games never do anything inventive anymore, it's all sterilized for mainstream audiences! We should go back to the days of Uniracers!... No, indie games don't count.
>Video games shouldn't have any storylines - they were better that way before.
>Games these days are pay-to-win; that's not what the original creators of coin-operated arcades intended
>Modern games use sex to sell far too much, older times were more innocent
>In general: every modern game is shit, and everything for the NES was a masterpiece unless it was on AVGN
>You can either like retro games or modern games, no middle ground
At least, I'm pretty sure it's modern audiences saying this, because I'm pretty sure people who've actually played an old game wouldn't.
>>2855185
>>2854968
Or, get this, with tank controls you don't have shit like this because they work perfectly.
>Super Mario 64 did this and it worked perfecly.
No it didn't, it was the worst thing about Super Mario 64 and they actually constantly tried to avoid this, that's why SM64 unlike RE doesn't have 3 camera's points in the same corridor and let you use the same camera's perspective for completing the set of obstacles without changing it during platforming.
>>2855185
>>2853914
Modern Japanese games still have clunky UIs. They're not game-breaking, just annoying.
>>2855348
whatever autist
>>2855517
somebaby buttmad
>clunky UI
>I graduated from the Egoraptor school of Knowing What I'm Talking About
>why do you play that shitty original, there's [insert remake here] now.
I don't give any ill will against remakes/reboots unless they're really shitty or completely different from the original, but wanking over versions like this is pretty stupid.
Shouldn't we all just appreciate that we're playing the same game?
Well we can break this down into categories of stupid, right? Let's trace their complaints back to the root shall we?
Let's start with the voice fags.
"Games with good voice acting are better"
"Games that are fully voiced are better"
"Games that have some voice acting are better than those without"
You faggots will have text boxes and LIKE IT. God damn kids today. Listening to shit instead of reading.
The audio fags:
"Surround sound helps make the game more immersive!"
"Real instruments sound better than chip music!"
"I like games with nice music"
"I like games with music"
"I like games with sound"
WRONG. Games should be PLAYED and not HEARD. God damn kids today.
Graphics homos:
"Games look better in 4k!"
"Games look better in HD!"
"3D graphics are so much better than 2D"
"I like having lots of colour in my games"
"I like having colour in my games"
"I like games with graphics, they're so much better than playing ascii games and guessing what everything is"
FUCKING CASUALS. The best games off all time are in black and white and have no graphics at all! If you play games with graphics you're not a real gamer.
Savegame shitheads:
"Being able to suspend the game at any point is so convenient"
"Saving my game is way better than having to write down a 256 character password made from hieroglyphics"
"Being able to resume my game at a later point is nice"
YOU FUCKING PUSSIES. What, you can't get through a game in one sitting? Any game longer than two hours is clearly padded and therefore garbage.
Difficulty dickheads:
"I like having lots of checkpoints"
"Removing 'lives' from games was a good idea, they were a silly holdover from the arcade days"
"I like having a range of difficulty settings so I can choose my challenge level. It adds replayability too!"
"I prefer games without instant death"
"I prefer games where one hit doesn't send me back to the start of the game"
USELESS WORMS. I cry for humanity, I really do. Beat games without being hit or not at all.
>>2854423
Earthbound gets really hard towards the end tho
>>2852963
>-It was "Good for its time."
the is legit though.
sometimes, a game was great when it came out, but has since aged like milk
>>2853031
On this note, I wish there was a mod for the original Warcraft that modernized and improved the control. Honestly I think it even could have been done better originally. It really holds the game back IMO.
>>2854330
If fixed camera angles necessitate tank controls then you shouldn't use fixed camera angles.
Games are not movies.
>>2855908
I didn't know Cranky Kong posted on /vr/
>>2854738
>complaining about swearing on 4chan
>complaining about swearing on the internet
Are you a gradeschool teacher?
>>2855185
I agree.
>>2855192
What part is bait? It's the exact kind of shit some retard would say who has a limited and skewed perspective on both old and new vidya.
Old games were not always perfect and new games are not all awful. There's way too many absolutist cunts insisting the opposite.
>>2855213
Don't know what to tell you, that worked just perfectly for me and I never had issues with those camera changes.
>>2855908
That's a rather spot-on impression of the typical AtariDad grognard who occasionally rears his ugly balding head on /vr/.
>>2856069
>If games don't have controls like in Gears of Wars they shouldn't exist.
>>2856069
I dislike tank controls and think there are better ways, but you do know that Resident Evil has fixed camera angles because all the environments are flat pre-rendered images, right? The angles you see are the ones that exist.
That was a design choice.
They COULD have used full 3D environments, but that would have been much more demanding and they would not have been nearly as detailed, also, it would have necessitated using less detailed models and less enemies on the screen.
Resident Evil could not have been the same game that it was if they had made the environments in real 3D. Hell, it probably wouldn't even in a Doom style 2.5D rendering method (which doesn't lend itself well to a 3rd person perspective)
>>2854763
How does it feel to know that you're such an embittered, bigoted asshole that you know just expressing how you really feel inside would get you fired from your job?
>>2852963
>Are we the ones out of touch, or is it the children?
Yes
>>2852985
...except that some things ARE dated and HAVEN'T aged well, dingus.
>>2852985
FF7 is shit. 1st Gen 3D is untextured shit. I rather play 2D homebrew for freedums.
>"The game is too hard"
>"They don't tell you where you're supposed to go next"
>"They never told me I could [press button/use item], how is anyone supposed to figure that out?"
>>2856589
Some games legit are insanely vague, like Castlevania 2 is horribly mistranslated and all the clues and directions are wrong or misleading, or outright missing.
Then there's Battletoads which was intentionally made harder in the western market, to the point that some parts are just absurd.
Which isn't to say that it isn't good.
>>2854693
I actually went and picked up IV to accept your challenge. I'm now at Rubicante without having ever used any battle commands other than Fight, and no magic even outside of battle. Didn't even have to grind beyond what seem to be average levels.Yeah I have autism and no life, why'd you ask?
>>2855908
lol you went hard on this post
>>2856589
There is a massive difference between "experiment" and "terrible game design". Several games, especially older games, fall into the latter at many points.
>>2856753
You're a liar.
You can't beat Cagnazzo without magic. He never drops his water shield unless you Thunder him and if you attack him he counters with the massive tidal wave attack that can potentially one-shot the party. There's no way you have enough HP to just soak that shit up.
You also won't get past Rubicante with an all-physical strategy because he will Fira and Inferno your ass into oblivion because he counters all your physical attacks with strong magic that hits all members for heavy damage.
>>2856371
>You should probably give some examples.
Your mom's spent cooter. How's that for an example...
>>2856842
You can get Thunder Claw for Yang before the Cagnazzo fight. He was actually rather painless and I got him on my first try.
I thought my run would end at Barbariccia but my physical attacks actually went through her tornado form despite triggering counterattacks and I beat her without Kain using Jump in like 4 tries.
Now, Scarmiglione was a huge pain in the ass because he counters everything with Thunder and his revenants were immune to any physicals but Holy Arrows. He took me about 10 tries. Of course, beating him in a normal run would just take me 2 more button presses to open the magic menu and cast Fira. See this is why I think IV had subpar gameplay. Unlike V, VI, even III's puzzle bosses where your setup matters and you have different party compositions to use and weak spots to exploit, in IV if there's no way to simply X through the fight it just flashes a big fat red weak point that should be hit with a spell for massive damage. It's like an early form of QTEs.
I have a bit more appreciation for the game playing it again for the first time in 5 years, but its combat is still one of the weakest in the series. The presentation is good, but the gameplay is connect the dots. I think the same of most of Chrono Trigger also.
>>2856901
What version are you playing that the Thunder claw counts as only a Thunder element attack instead of Physical/Thunder?
>>2856915
I'm playing the original SNES [J] version with the j2e translation patch. Figured it would be the most purist, but if that's somehow not kosher I'll concede part of my point.
>>2854265
"Frogger"
/vr/ says those exact things whenever a 2nd generation console is brought up.
>>2856930
Nope, that's fine, I thought maybe you were doing a DS run where the enemy behaviours and statuses were changed.
>>2854290
Some games explored new concepts and game styles but didn't implement them that well. Later games perfected that style and left little reason to return to the original games.
I would argue Dune 2 is a perfect example of this. Amazing game for its time, but the RTS games which built on its formula in the following years just did it so much better.
It's also a great example of the game where the remake is better.
>>2857117
The problem isn't the graphics, it's the extremely simple and tedious gameplay. I played more entertaining games on my old TI-85 graphing calculator. The only good 2nd gen. games are the multiplayer ones, and that's no great praise because even 0th gen. games (board games) can be fun if they're multiplayer.
>>2857139
>The problem isn't the graphics, it's the extremely simple and tedious gameplay.
And yet kids at the time loved them....
>>2857156
Kids are very easy to entertain, because so much is new to them. Single player games didn't become entertaining to typical adults until 3rd gen..
>>2856065
This
>>2857139
>opinions
There are some really amazing second gen games that aren't tedious at all. For example, River Raid, Frostbite, Demon Attack, Burger Time, Kaboom, and Tac-Scan.
>>2854605
Playing it now. It's not THAT bad.
>>2857164
Before then young adults and teens got their fix from Atari and Arcade, with the former I'm sure being more so a novelty because Atari, while it has good games, it's simplistic as fuck.
>>2854605
It's comfy, but pretty much your simple bare bones jrpg to the letter. It's grindy and the interface is admittedly laughable, but it took a lot from computer rpgs, and without things like a keyboard I find it forgivable.
>>2855185
this, tbqh
>"These (retro system) games aren't hard. What are you talking about?"
- Person played on an emulator with save states the whole way through
Of course Ninja Gaiden and Battletoads are easy... when you save every screen change.
>>2857450
What they mean is that the games aren't actually hard, they just have artificial difficulty. It's all memorization, once you memorize the game you can play perfectly every time.
>>2857471
>What they mean is that the games aren't actually hard, they just have artificial difficulty.
Thanks for providing another example of stupid shit modern audiences say.
>>2853034
>199something
>Playing Resi 1 with a friend
>Hate tank controls, think they're stupid
>2015
>Play Resi 2 by myself
>Can't picture myself playing with any other control scheme
Once you get used to it it's just so comfy.
>>2857471
>once you memorize the game you can play perfectly every time
>you can play perfectly every time
>play perfectly every time
>perfectly
>every time
>once you memorize the game
>the game
>>2857117
>sunset/sunrise
>activision
Why am I not surprised?
>>2853242
Honestly i saw a bigger boom with the DS
>>2857471
Ninja Gaiden certainly gets easier once you memorize it, but that's the whole point. Until you do that, getting through it and figuring out the correct way to go through the levels is hard as fuck. Even after that it's still quite easy to fuck up.
I get the feeling you haven't actually beat Ninja Gaiden.
>>2857615
The game is exactly the same every time you play it. There's no element of chance or randomness involved. Once you figure out how to beat it, you can just do that same thing and beat it everytime.
>>2857660
No need to call my gamer cred into question. I've memorized the game and it is barely even a challenge now, I can just breeze through it. The only part that still throws me is the last boss, because if I die and go back to 6-1 I don't really feel like playing anymore.
>>2857730
>everytime
No, not every time. Being able to speedrun through a game takes tens of thousands of hours, but even then, you're not a robot. You will fuck up.
Literally the only game I'll agree with you on this matter is Dragon's Lair, QTEs aren't consistently challenging.
>>2852963
>-The graphics are bad, I can't enjoy it.
I've been hearing this one for two decades.
>>2853198
I'm shocked anyone expected the FF VII remake to be turn based. S-E has shown again and again that they don't like that anymore.
If you weren't aware of that, are you also unaware that it's going to be episodic?
>>2854605
>I mean the original Famicom Dragon Quest. Tell me it's playable by todays standards.
Played it for the first time 11 months ago. Well, I played the SFC version because it used kanji. I have played some of the original FC version though, which is even more dated than the English NES version. I kept in mind the period the game came out, so I didn't hate it, but yeah, it wasn't exactly fantastic. DQ III was fantastic though.
>>2856930
>with the j2e translation patch.
Stabbing yourself in the eyes would be the less painful experience.
I dunno. I just like to play video games. I've been playing many of the same ones I started with in the late 80s/early 90s my entire life. I tend to prefer older titles, I guess this makes me "retro" now. Whatever.
I don't get asspained over certain phrases because i'm not anal enough to think that someone's terminology determines their right to be part of my "secret club."
I've spent time in video game shops as a customer and an employee alike. I've spent lots if time talking to real world people of varying tastes and experience in a casual environment, free of the pretense of internet communities. It's just easier to talk to people with verbal shortcuts. Of course I still think my favorite games look gorgeous. However, when you're talking to someone half your age who's just setting foot into the retro world, and insists "old stuff looks ugly," you can't bitch em out and sour their whole expreience. They can relate way better to terms like "it looked amazing FOR THE TIME."
>>2857164
Adults loved it as well. It was new to them too.
Which is exactly what people mean when they say a game was good for it's time or has aged badly. When the concept was new to the audience it was good, now it's grown old, new games have improved on the formula and the flaws in the original implementations are more glaringly obvious.
Though for the record, I couldn't disagree with you more about 2nd gen gameplay. But I will agree it's aged badly, as has the 5th gen.
>>2852967
Actually THIS is a /b/ tier shitpost.
>>2854028
Fucking this. I hate when people think meddling with perfectly good mechanics/removing features is the good kind of change. And of course they will not see the irony when something similar happens to their favorite game series.
>u just hate change ;^)
>*something happens to his favorite game series*
>HOLY FUCKING SHIT WHY DID THEY HAVE TO CHANGE IT?!!
People think kids today are smarter and shit. But I think the stuff are more stupid, like people get addicted to Flappy Bird... wtf?
>>2858341
Kids are "on average" smarter, the games are just becoming more and more proficient at taking advantage of psychological cues, there's science behind it now. The medium has progressed to the point where there is enough research and attempts to make players feel anything the designers want.
Flappy bird is designed to be addictive, It's a very simple game. Attempts are over quickly and it gives you that "one more go" feeling. Arcade machines were difficult to a first time player and people got suckered in. Defender is a difficult game and I wouldn't expect a first time player to get through the first board without losing a life.
Pinball machines are similar, unless you have played pinball for any serious length of time, you kind of just smash the ball around and hope for the best, just relying on sheer luck and bright lights for enjoyment.
>>2858309
Everything can be improved.
Your favourite retro games wouldn't exist if people hadn't meddled with the "perfectly good mechanics" of the games that preceded them.
>>2858546
Name one good AAA game that has done that in the past 10 years. No nintendo.
>>2858551
Dragon's Dogma
>>2858551
Not him, but what's "good" is relative. I'm willing to bet that the millions of people who play CoD every year think it's good. And if they're enjoying the game, it's serving it's purpose and is therefor "good".
That you and I would both hate it if we play it is besides the point. Tons of people hate Final Fantasy II, but I think it's an extremely good game.
So with all that in mind, here are some big budget games of the last 10 years I would say are good to great. You can pick out the ones you don't consider "AAA".
Just Cause 2
Resident Evil IV
Shadow of the Colossus
Civilization IV, V
Monster Hunter 2-4
Okami
Tomb Raider Underworld
Street Fighter IV
Witcher, 2 and 3
Dragon's Dogma
Bayonetta
Red Dead Redeption
Batman Arkham Asylum
X-Com Enemy Unknown
>>2858567
Released broken with day 1 patch
Day 1 DLC
Pre order DLC
Online paywall
That's close to being about as shit as you can get. Microtransactions are missing I think.
Stick to /v/.
>>2858574
fuck off retard
>>2858585
Nope I'm fine here. Be nice if you modern gen gaming kids stayed out honestly.
>>2858589
>kids
I'm not the one who can't ignore carrot on the stick.
>>2858595
Damn you got me. Man. Totally not /v/ material.
>>2858574
one SANE man
>>2858574
>Released broken with day 1 patch
How does that matter at all unless you're playing it in the first hour or two after it was released?
>Day 1 DLC
Option content isn't bad. None of the DLC is important or necessary. I didn't buy any and had a full experience.
>Online paywall
DD doesn't have online play. You can connect and trade items with others, but it's hardly necessary.
>>2858581
Monster Hunter has never had paid online and all it's DLC has always been free.
You didn't say anything about new, you just said good. Those are all extremely solid games. That you imply they all have pay walls and were broken day 1 is plenty of proof you have zero idea what you're talking about.
This is hilarious.
>>2858612
Please just stay in /v/? Your kind that defends DLC isn't welcomed here.
>>2858641
Who died and made you the mod?
>>2858574
Psst, the DLC was just bonus items that were pretty worthless since the game isreally fucking easy
>>2858641
Why? I grew up with and love the games this board is dedicated to as well as new games. This is a great place to talk about older games.
But if someone tries to say something comically ridiculous like there are no good modern games, I'm for sure going to make fun of them. All the post said was to name good high budget games of the last 10 years, so I did. You're the one getting upset over it, and it's funny.
>>2858641
>implying anyone gives a fuck if you welcome them or not
Salty anon is SALTY today! :)
>>2858670
You look like a black guy hiding between white sheeps you know?
>>2858679
I even tried googling that and can't figure out what you're on about. lol
>>2857980
>However, when you're talking to someone half your age who's just setting foot into the retro world, and insists "old stuff looks ugly," you can't bitch em out and sour their whole expreience. They can relate way better to terms like "it looked amazing FOR THE TIME."
This, it'll encourage them to have the graphics grow on them if they come to appreciate the effort and thought making old graphics work, some necessitated clever trickery and wouldn't have worked without it.
>>2858691
you stand out at /vr/ kid
>>2858698
And you don't? lol
I don't think it will ever stop being funny to see someone younger than me call me kid.
>>2858691
Are you talking everything LITERALY
>>2858702
June 88, and you? First PC in 95, C64 too and Pegasus
>>2858703
I just thought the phrase was funny. And knew his response would be good for more or the same.
>>2858707
Feb 20 1974 here. Got my first Atari in '79 and have been hooked ever since.
>>2858551
Far Cry 2 had retarded gunplay, Far Cry 3 dumped the retarded weapon degradation and made the guns ten times better, no longer does the finish visibly strip on weapons and that expensive gun doesn't notably get rustier with each fired shot.
The way weapons degraded in FC2 was retarded and annoying, it was a half-assed attempt at realism that didn't add anything good to gameplay (and it also wasn't realistic either)
>>2858714
OK, you beat me
>>2858641
>all DLC is bad and cannot be defended
Some DLC is shit or original content cut out and sold later, and that's bad.
Some DLC is just mediocre knickknacks and insignificant bonus items that are cheap and add very little, if at all, to a game.
Some DLC is actually developed and released after the original game and adds lots of content like a proper expansion pack, maybe even continuing the story of the base game.
Learn the difference.
>>2858730
It is not about age but way of thinking
>>2858731
Which is why the behavior of some of the board's older posters is so embarrassing.
>>2858551
The non /vr/ GTA games are great improvements on the /vr/ ones, and the changes made to the series over the years have largely been for the better. Though I do miss the army coming after you at six stars, that hasn't been in the games for the last decade.
The Last of Us was a great take on the survival horror formula. They could have made the ammo a little more scarce, but meh.
Also I'll take COD 1, 2, and even 4, over the /vr/ Medal of Honour games as well.
>>2859006
I'll also add the Stalker series as another great take on the survival horror genera, can't believe I forgot them, one of my favourite series from the past ten years.
>>2859006
This, while it was fun to goof around in the old GTA games, it was with 3 it began getting REALLY fun and where there interesting narratives.
I'll say that I miss the Hare Krishna lines though.
>>2859273
The top down view was expendable.
>>2859289
I agree. I prefer the later GTA games.
However to say the later GTA games improved anything from the first ones is false. They threw out stuff which made things better. The games improved but the "perfectly good mechanics" just got thrown out not changed.
>>2854605
>Go back and play the original Dragon Quest. I mean the original Famicom Dragon Quest.
Dragon Warrior since english release afaik
I played it two years ago and it was amazing
2nd DQ (DW 2) ruined the series by adding party
>>2859273
It threw out everything? The open worlds? The wanted levels? Stealing cars? I'm not sure we've been playing the same games.
>>2859528
How did it change those though? If anything they just became easier.
>>2859542
Well those aspects didn't change much from 2. Untill 4 when the army got dropped. And the move to one world which is gradually opened up, instead of seperate worlds for each level.
But I'm sure you've played these games yourself and allready know this, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.
>>2859551
The point I made way earlier.
>>2859554
The point that nothing was improved, everything thrown out? Well you've allready agreed that not everything was thrown out, so...
Some aspects of the 1st 2 games were kept. Other aspects were changed. Overall this is almost universally accepted to have been an improvment.
Deal with it.
>>2859595
>can't read a post chain
No surprise there from someone young enough for the PS2 to be their first console.
>>2859597
It's you who can't read the post chain, now you've got nothing to say so you're resorting to childish coments about what you belive my age to be.
Stay classy.
>>2859604
I only have so much tolerance for obvious underageb& bullshit. Not being able to read a post chain and then trying to say the same to me being pretty high up on the bullshit list.
>>2853072
This. People like to claim it's supposed to make the game scarier but in reality tank controls are just annoying and at most add artificial spooks.
