Sega 32x
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All memes aside, was the 32x really that bad?
>>2840362
well there are like 3 games for it that aren't shit so yeah.
if you meant technically speaking? of course, why the fuck did they use cartridges?
note: i owned every sega console and add-on growing up.
>>2840369
Don't need to use carts. With the SegaCD connected the 32x can use CDs.
After Burner II
Space Harrier
Virtua Fighter
Virtua Racing
at least 4 good games but the problem is none of them are exclusive and besides Virtua Racing, none of them are the best version.
>>2840369
>why the fuck did they use cartridges?
Because cartridges are a superior format for gaming compared to discs, which is why the Sega CD failed so miserably.
Doom was pretty great on it
Knuckles Chaotix redeemed the 32x, that game is great
>>2840380
SegaCD was the only one to fail. The CD add-on for turbografx did rather well, lots of games for it.
>>2840380
>the Sega CD failed so miserably
Stop getting your retro news and opinions from YouTube, child.
>>2840380
That's silly. The larger issue was CDs being used to hold large video and audio files before they figured out decent compression, so you ended up with games that were visually similar to normal genesis games with really rich music, which ended up being not really noticeable outside of a few select titles due to outstanding audio not being nearly as noticeable as outstanding graphics.
That and no one was really interested in building a franken-genesis.
No
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pOWZbydnlZE
>>2840378
If we're talking about consoles, Virtua Racing on PS2 is the best home version. I wouldn't rank the Sat version that low tho, specially because it's analog compatible
>>2840402
I thought the handling was off in the PS2 version? Same with SEGA Rally. I haven't played it though so I don't know.
>>2840378
You can add Kolibri and MK2 on that list, and maybe Tempo (but I didn't play that one, looks like a vanilla platformer to me).
it was considered a tumor for the genesis...it was an ok system but had too many add ons...
No so shit, actually. It has bad press (for good reasons) but the unit itself is neat. Games are okayish and you still will have fun with a lot of them.
Bad business move, sure. Tech-wise, not so much.
>>2840467
>After Burner II and Space Harrier are arcade perfect
No they run at 30fps as opposed to the arcade/Saturn versions which are 60. The music is slightly off too due to the Genesis' soundchip. They are excellent versions though, definitely the best up to that point.
>>2840526
It's been established that 60fps is inferior to 30fps, the music thing is an issue though.
>>2840380
Sega CD was moderately successful. Not a failure, anyway.
It allowed Sega to test drive CD-based game for the Saturn, just like Sony could with the SNES CD before the PlayStation. Nintendo had absolutely no XP in this and that is the main reason why they didn't use discs for the N64 (latency was just an excuse).
It could have been good if it was released like two years earlier.
>>2840530
>It's been established that 60fps is inferior to 30fps
... what?
>>2840564
not him but 30fps is a lot more cinematic for games like RPGs and the brain can barely register the difference between 30 and 60 fps
>>2840571
>the brain can barely register the difference between 30 and 60 fps
You're a funny guy.
>>2840571
don't even
The annoying thing is you need a 32X to play its games, and they're more complicated than they have to be.
>>2840571
>cinematic
I stopped reading when I realized what you are
>>2840362
>32x was bad
>said literally nobody everAVGN isn't a real person
>>2840387
Only for the music though.
i have one with all games that ever came out for it
yeah its shit, theres not really any great games for it
>>2840362
It was the PS3 of the '90s.
>>2840383
No. It sucked less dick then the SNES versionm,, but it still sucks dick
>>2840835
Wrong.
>>2840531
>(latency was just an excuse).
It wasn't. CD tech was just not up to snuff in the middle of the 90s, and random access speed was pathetic. So on top of latency you also needed shit ton of memory to load levels into, loading screens while you loaded stuff, and if you ever needed to do in-game loading, you either had to pause the game or at least pause anything else the CD drive was doing (which was usually playing music).
The only way around that was to overengineer the hardware or add crazy amounts of RAM, which was all too expensive.
By the 00s, you at least could afford mature CD controllers and lots of RAM, plus orders of magnitude in storage space, that's why they finally switched (on top of the developers hating carts and the N64 selling like shit).
>>2840531
>It allowed Sega to test drive CD-based game for the Saturn
That was literally the only thing it was good for. Well, and Keio Flying Squadron.
>>2840402
>Analog Compatible
You're full of shit.
>>2840937
Don't tell me you forgot the best game for the Sega CD?
>>2840380
Sega CD wasn't really a failure. You are underage.
>>2840380
>which is why the Sega CD failed so miserably.
Considering the high price of the add-on (double the base console) and its relatively decent sales it cannot be seriously considered a complete failure.
>>2840362
No, it came out at the wrong time, didn't have a captivating library and was handled poorly
the hardware itself is very interesting but it was not a good idea to release it in conjunction with the Saturn and Playstation soon on the way
>>2840446
>>2840467
I found Tempo particularly fun, as well as its Saturn sequel. The gameplay may not be very innovative but it has its own charm and personality.
>>2841456
Ah Tempo. Basically "Bonk is a dancing grasshopper now". Great game.
>>2841464
I never played Bonk. I find it myself more like a mix of Earthworm Jim's surreal comedy and Rayman's visual charm.
It was pretty redundant. Compare something like Virtua Racing:
Mega Drive/Genesis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ71NMZ_zZI
32X: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gNP3Lk0Ivk
Sega Saturn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3sMZYIfRn8
Go with the Saturn for accurate arcade ports or stick with the 16-bit system for price. Why get the 32X version?
>>2841486
Ironic considering that the 32X version is better than the Saturn version. But generally, you're right.
>>2841486
Bad example, Virtua Racing 32x is a pretty good port, better than the Saturn port. The Saturn port is half-assed, could have been arcade perfect in the right hands.
However for games like Space Harrier and After Burner II this is right.
>hold the 32x until they get the Saturn idea ready to go
>scrap the 32x and make a cheap enough Neptune using Saturn's technology
>Saturn will be a Neptune but with a CD drive, and it will cost more
>Both will be backwards compatible with the Genesis
>SEGA wins
>>2841618
>release Genesis
>don't release any retarded addon, only games
>milk it until 1994
>release Saturn
>SEGA wins or at least may survive for more time
>>2841632
SEGA CD was kinda neat, and they could have reworked some backwards compatibility into the Saturn for extra support. Think of the huge library it would have had.
>>2841640
PS2 pulled PS1's backwards compatibility by being register compatible with all of its hardware, and the PS1's CPU was used as an I/O controller that could be set to receive PS1's data by the BIOS.
Developing a solid Neptune was the key to developing a solid Saturn.
>>2841650
That was different. PS1 was already 3D and it didn't have to also maintain backwards compatibility with a PS0.
>>2841682
Saturn and PS1 were both 2D/3D hybrids. Competent engineering would have solved everything.
It was cool when all the games went on sale for 10 bucks when it flop. I liked it
>>2841690
>Saturn and PS1 were both 2D/3D hybrids.
Saturn was 2D based hardware (distorted quads) that was powerful enough to do 3D. Unfortunately it was terribly inefficient and definitely not the way to make a 3D console.
PS1 was actually based around 3D (yes, though it was inaccurate 3D), but flexible enough to do 2D as well since you just map textures onto flat polygons Turning it into a "accurate" 3D console only required minor adjustment, which is exactly what the PS2 did.
The only viable way to make the Neptune would be to make it a mini-PS1 or mini-N64. Unfortunately it would still be carrying the dead weight of the Genesis/Mega Drive components.
>>2841707
>since you just map textures onto flat polygons
PS1 can do 2D quads/whatever by calling GP0 opcodes 60h through 7Fh. This doesn't take any data from the GTE, it is completely independent so it can do all the Saturn kind of 2D you want, but it comes with a price of not being distorted diagonally unless with raster tricks.
>Unfortunately it would still be carrying the dead weight of the Genesis/Mega Drive components.
They were cheap by that time and could also be used for a plethora of applications. Hell, the Saturn has an actual 68000 compatible processor and an FM chip.
>>2841740
>PS1 can do 2D quads/whatever by calling GP0 opcodes 60h through 7Fh. This doesn't take any data from the GTE, it is completely independent so it can do all the Saturn kind of 2D you want, but it comes with a price of not being distorted diagonally unless with raster tricks.
PS1's GPU works very different internally to VDP1, so whether GTE contributes any data is irrelevant.
>They were cheap by that time and could also be used for a plethora of applications. Hell, the Saturn has an actual 68000 compatible processor and an FM chip.
It could make all the difference in a price war. Do you wonder why Sony actually removed LEDs between revision of PS3 Slims? It would only be a saving of a few cents, but even that makes a difference.
Including/omitting actual processors on the other hand makes a big impact to the bottom line. The fact is that a Sega console with "dead weight" isn't particularly competitive.
There's no way you can emulate the Genesis VDP on a 3D GPU, so you would need to include it on both the Neptune AND the Saturn.
>>2841476
Bonk:
Run, jump, attack (headbutt)
Can jump on enemies
If you head-butt a wall, you "wall jump"
Repetitively headbutt nothing in the air, you can hover
Tempo:
Run, jump, attack (kick), shoot notes
Can jump on enemies
If you kick a wall you "wall jump"
If you hold jump in the air you hover
Only the flicking notes and getting the butterfly to help you is new
Tempo is basically the spiritual successor to Bonk, new environment and theme probably facilitated the new character.
>>2840362
Financially? Pretty sure the Saturn launch hurt Sega more than the 32X.
Games? A third of the 32X library is decent.
>>2840402
Handling+collisions are really weird in the PS2 version, they're much further from arcade than the 32X version. Damn shame, because the PS2 version is fucking gorgeous.
dunno what was wrong with the Saturn version, haven't played it myself
>>2840523
Tech-wise, the machine was too simple for its own good.
It's a pair of CPUs, a framebuffer, and some DACs that you can play middling to high quality samples on (with the CPUs driving them, of course). That's it.
The CPUs are in the same configuration as the Saturn, with all the issues that has (namely, they climb over each other pretty often for resources, so performance generally is only slightly faster at best than with only one CPU under most workloads, and can sometimes be worse).
There's no graphics drawing hardware. You plot pixels onto the framebuffer with the CPU, period. The VDP in the 32X is strictly for merging the framebuffer and the Genesis' video output, it doesn't provide any drawing facilities at all.
You want to scale sprites? You write some fast scaling+blitting routines yourself in SH-2 ASM and probably call them from C code (maybe you wrote the game logic in ASM like you would a Genesis game). Same with polygons. Hell, even Chaotix has to do all its normal tilemap and sprite style foreground graphics manually.
Games typically used the Genesis for backgrounds, because you had to either layer 32X graphics on top or Genesis graphics on top, and the 32X's extra visual might was much more useful on top.
Most of the game runs on the 32X because doing shit with the Genesis at the same time is a nightmare and there's very little ability for the two halves to communicate effectively. It's there for backgrounds and music.
>>2840571
>this fucking bait
Here's your (You).
>>2843041
>Genesis on top
Is that really possible and which game does it? I thought the 32x handled the video as an overlay.
>>2840459
>tumor for the genesis
Nice AVGN meme
>>2843307
Disconnect the video loopback cable and you'll easily see that.
>>2840387
Noope, level design was a convoluted mess. I would have liked to see the bungie ring used on a proper Sonic
>>2841410
This anon has the right idea. Plus it was BS expensive!!
What was that Flashback like game called again? That looked kinda cool... Blackthorne?
Oh and that Star Wars game...
Woulda liked to see a bit more effort in regards to the 32X.
>>2843307
It's possible. As far as I know, no game does it (for obvious reasons, why are you putting your fancy 32X visuals in the background), or if they do, it's not obvious.
read http://devster.monkeeh.com/sega/32xguide1.txt
it's by the part that says "VDP Mode Select Low"
You can't do fancy shit like placing one Genesis background layer behind and one in front, both the 32X and Genesis outputs are handled as big overlays.
>>2840362
wasted potential. everything after Genesis was wasted potential as a matter of fact.
>>2843789
Okay so I suppose the 32X overlay could use the genesis vdp output as a mask and make all masked pixels see-through (from very quickly looking at that file, I could be wrong anyway)
I can think of some situations where you'd keep the 32X graphics on the background and that's in some kind of menu screen or some cutscene with text boxes on front.
>>2844117
Pretty much only if you want the HUD being handled by the Megadrive, and will render all your backgrounds on the 32X itself as well.
In a "game" like Virtua Hamster you probably don't even need to bother about backgrounds.
>>2844305
Fart concert vs Slideshow
>>2844313
kek
>>2843041
>There's no graphics drawing hardware. You plot pixels onto the framebuffer with the CPU, period. The VDP in the 32X is strictly for merging the framebuffer and the Genesis' video output, it doesn't provide any drawing facilities at all.
I thought the 32x vdp itself had some fast blitting routines, to help the SH2 work with them; and then output rgb video. The overlaying was done with an analog video mixer that was an entirely separate chip, and not part of the 32x vdp.
>>2843789
>why are you putting your fancy 32X visuals in the background),
So you can have your game running in gorgeous 15-bit rgb colour while the basic GUI on top is drawn by the Megadrive.
>>2841749
>PS1's GPU works very different internally to VDP1, so whether GTE contributes any data is irrelevant.
It's a fixed function framebuffer blitter like the VDP1, just more advanced with more features, and better speed. It works very similarly to the VDP1 in that regard.
>>2841707
>Turning it into a "accurate" 3D console only required minor adjustment, which is exactly what the PS2 did.
Can you expand a bit on this? I thought the PS2 was an all new arch that contained a PS1-on-a-chip as a secondary i/o cpu, that could take over and run PS1 games.
Then again it would make sense if the GS was an evolution of the ps1 gpu, with more functions; that's probably how they made optional texture filtering on PS1 games possible on the PS2.
>>2843425
At launch, sure. I still picked mine up sometime in 96 for 20 bucks out of a KB.
Shadow Squadron is practically a better Starblade on a home console. Shit is delicious.
i really wanna play tempo on real hardware. i'll but a 32x if i can get it for like 20$. maybe 25
>>2840362
check AVGN's videos
>>2840380
>which is why the Sega CD failed so miserably.
You have to be at least 18 to post here, son.
>>2844410
>It's a fixed function framebuffer blitter like the VDP1, just more advanced with more features, and better speed. It works very similarly to the VDP1 in that regard.
No, it really doesn't. It works completely differently. VDP1 is based off an accelerated 2D rendering paradigm, while PS1 GPU is based off a 3D rendering paradigm.
Read this post, it explains it all better than I could enunciate.
>The Saturn draws polygons backwards from normal 3D hardware. Normally, you scan though the polygon and fetch texels. The Saturn scans through texels and plots pixels. Because of this, instead of the usual power-of-2 sized textures and arbitrary sized frame buffers that most hardware allows, the Saturn has power-of-2 sized framebuffers and arbitrary sized textures. Since textures have four corners, Saturn polygons must have four corners as well. But because of the way the Saturn draws its quads, Saturn textured polygon quads look close to being perspective correct, despite not needing a vertex Z.
https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/a-trip-to-the-past-castlevania-sotn-porting.52276/#post-1620100
>Can you expand a bit on this? I thought the PS2 was an all new arch that contained a PS1-on-a-chip as a secondary i/o cpu, that could take over and run PS1 games.
Emotion Engine and the PS1 CPU are fairly although not completely different (both have MIPS cores for example), but different enough that Sony needed to include the PS1 CPU on the PS2 motherboard for BC.
Graphics Synthesizer (GS) on the PS2 is basically an array of 16 "extended" versions of the PS1 GPU. This is, exactly as you guessed, how the optional texture filtering works. When you play a PS1 game on PS2, a single pipeline of the GS is active - unlike the PS1 GPU it's also got a filtering unit which can be flagged on/off. That's exactly how BC works.
>>2845249
The PS1's rectangle/line/pixel functions are NOT 3D rendering.
>>2845410
It's impossible to know that unless you have a reference sheet that explains how the GPU's internal units function. Those functions could very well be internally processed as canned simplified "3D" operations.
>>2845447
I was partly wrong about the line function not being 3D, but the rectangle function absolutely isn't
You can't do gouraud shading with it, for starters, and it will escape any form of dithering which, unlike 3D functions, is always applied so it can be interpolated on a 15bpp framebuffer. I won't even go into detail explaining how per-pixel rectangle routines can be abused to actually get true 24bpp 2D on the screen. This has fuckall to do with 3D as no triangles/pseudoquads are even remotely mentioned.
Check this out:
http://psx.amidog.se/doku.php?id=psx:download:gpu#GPU_Test
>>2845573
0/10
>>2845571
As an addendum, check pic related. See the last two RECT functions? They can literally print standard sized tiles as any other older console did so even arcade ports were no hassle, if not for the limited VRAM.
>>2844963
The 32X one is full of shit.
>>2845580
>>2845573
I'd give him a 1/10 for effort.
I've seen better though.
>>2840362
so what DID actually happen if you stack two of them?
Do the games work at all?
>>2845630
not as bad as the CD one though.
>>2845571
>>2845595
As I said before, this doesn't necessarily explain how the GPU processes these functions. Without the reference documents of the internal chip-hardware itself, we can only speculate.
Those functions you've provided are only abstracted commands built on top of the hardware, they don't alone explain what they actually do on the hardware.
My guess is that the rectangle function still runs on the same rasterizer as the 3D hardware and in the same/similar data format, but specifies much less overhead so it's run through faster than your typical post-matrix GTE triangles (hence why gouraud shading doesn't work). It probably automatically combines the two "flat" triangles for you to make things easier.
My point is that even though the hardware has abstracted the functions into "appearing" like 2D, it's the hardware itself is still running them through the same fixed function units as all the 3D functions. But it's hard to say for sure unless we know what's inside PS1 GPU itself.
>>2845249
>VDP1 is based off an accelerated 2D rendering paradigm, while PS1 GPU is based off a 3D rendering paradigm.
... that's exactly what I meant by the PS1 GPU being more advanced.
But they are still fixed function pixel plotters, both of them. One is just based on UV mapped triangles with two types of shading, while the other is based on warping sprites.
And honestly the VDP1 was bad even for doing sprite only work. It was just too slow. If it wasn't for the VDP2, the Saturn would have had 3do tier graphics.
>>2846369
>If it wasn't for the VDP2, the Saturn would have had 3do tier graphics.
The sad thing is you seriously believe this. Segafags, everyone.
>>2846372
I don't know what you mean by that, are you saying that the 3do was so much better, or so much worse?
The only VDP1-only games I remember on the Saturn, that looked good, were the three Lobotomy games, Exhumed, Duke3d and Quake. And even those offloaded a bunch of stuff to the VDP2 (all the GUI, and the weapon animations). If they had to do those with the VDP1 too, they would've had even less memory for textures, and would've looked that much worse.
How does the 3DO compare with the Saturn in terms of 3D, 2D, FMV, and audio?
>>2846372
Are you some kind of fucking idiot?
>>2846461
Weaker in every way, except two: better at pushing quads than the Saturn (but Saturn could offset this with its backgrounds, on games where it was applicable), and the system had a much simpler and straightforward setup - so easier to code for.
captcha: stacks 68000
>>2840362
It was bad, Sega didn't know how to make 3D graphics. Space Harrier and Super Thunder Blade being shitty 2d games that scrolled is a symptom of this. Nintendo meanwhile made Starfox before even thinking of moving up to the 64 which had actual polygons whereas the Saturn and 32X were still crutching hard on sprite overlays.
>>2846510
>Sega didn't know how to make 3D graphics
Sega were pioneering 3D graphics years before Nintendo in the arcades you dunce.
>Space Harrier and Super Thunder Blade being shitty 2d games that scrolled is a symptom of this
Space Harrier is a game from 1986 and Thunder Blade isn't even on the 32X.
>Nintendo meanwhile made Starfox
Argonaut made Starfox. Years after SEGA was doing far far more advanced 3D in arcades. Even on the Mega Drive, Virtua Racing was far, far more advanced than Star Fox. Ran at more than 5 frames per second.
Please don't talk about things you're completely ignorant about.
>>2846510
>Sega didn't know how to make 3D graphics
>>2846521
Exactly. Sega's problem was Sega. They already _had_ all the talent in the world.
>>2846510
This is a joke, right. I can't believe someone can be genuinely that stupid.
32x is the definition of wasted/unrealized potential if I've ever seen one in gaming.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOWZbydnlZE
>>2846568
Those are graphic demos without game logic, and the frames are heavily blurred together due to the VHS rip.
Some of those demos run at extremely low framerate or they are Fog City with next to no visibility. Add in game logic and they run even worse.
At least two of them we've seen in real hardware too by the way: the voxel demo was released as AMOK on the Saturn, and the corridor plane was found as a prototype game of X-Men for 32x.
The 32X was a mistake. Take that money and dump it into literally anything else.
>>2846510
>Nintendo meanwhile
should read "Nintendo, more than 10 years later, had sub-par results with…"
>>2846568
Looks like an early 3D PSX game.
>>2846581
Indeed. I was never that impressed with the SuperFX chip. A bigger unrealized flop than even the 32X.
>>2846568
MY TIME IS YOURS
WE NEED A NEW UNITY
>>2846568
tech demo =/= how the average game could expect to run
Anyone up for making a list of 32x games that are worth playing? The "32x was an objectively terrible console" meme has seriously overstayed it's welcome.
>>2846612
Exclusives worth playing:
Spiderman: Web of Fire
Kolibri
Tempo
...and that's it. Inb4 Knuckles Chaotix. It's shit.
>>2840835
It's really not bad, decent frame-rate for the time. It's a shame the music is so fucked up though.
>>2846612
It's not a meme, hipster.
>>2846613
Virtua Racing Deluxe was also good, wasn't it like the best port of the game?
Virtua Fighter is a surprisingly solid port, for the console anyway.
MK2 and NBA Jam were also great, but available to every other machine ever made.
>>2846613
>>2846616
Still more games than this tragedy of a console.
>>2846627
I still wonder why they didn't update the Iron Man spec while it was mothballed. Such a lax business decision.
>>2840571
>the brain can barely register the difference between 30 and 60 fps
Almost fell for it
>>2846576
Silent Hill 32X port when.
>>2846369
>... that's exactly what I meant by the PS1 GPU being more advanced.
Well, I dunno if more advanced is the right word to use. That implies that the PS1's GPU was an incremental upgrade over VDP1 when the actual means of deriving output pixels between the two chips is completely different.
It would be more accurate to describe N64's RDP as more advanced than PS1's GPU because they both do rasterization in exactly the same way, except RDP has boatloads more features.
>And honestly the VDP1 was bad even for doing sprite only work. It was just too slow
VDP1 actually has the better theoretical approach for doing 2D than PS1 GPU because it has far less overhead when your overdraw is kept to a minimum.
For 2D VDP1 was only let down by slower VRAM and the undercooked transparency modes. Give it the same VRAM as PS1 GPU and equal transparency modes and it's would be a MUCH better sprite chip since it's actually based around 2D.
>>2847096
>implies
No. It doesn't. You can do something in a completely different way that is more advanced. In fact that's often the case.
>>2840571
>and the brain can barely register the difference between 30 and 60 fps
maybe your puny brain, retard
>>2840398
That video was awesome.
>>2846627
that machine is just depressing spec-wise
the video hardware can do some mildly impressive things as a 2D console, but it's overall just crap and is just straight up a 1992/3 era machine released as a 1995 era one
>>2840398
Everything about that video is super-impressive. The Gouraud shaded (untextured) portion is especially brilliant, hot damn. Framerate dips too low during the textured bit, even if it's super cool to see the 32X doing.
and the fog in every single one part masking the draw distance is just really impressive
>tfw you see a bit of AMOK on there at 4:18
>>2840526
Space Harrier is 60 (with occasional drops).
It's After Burner that runs at 30.
>>2848316
From one perspective you could argue VDP1 is more advanced at 2D than PS1's GPU.
As I said, they aren't incremental, they are more like technological sidesteps.
PS1's GPU is "better" overall (more flexible, better at 3D and still does 2D alright) but I just think "more advanced" is misleading.
>>2840964
But grandpa, Sega CD was released when lot of people here were still swimming in their father's ballsack.
It's not unreasonable to not know.
As a hardware experiment there's nothing particularly wrong with it besides the underwhelming sound capabilities, but for something released commercially it was a big waste of Sega's money and resources that likely contributed to Sega's withdrawal from making hardware in the early-00's. As a product it was completely redundant, expensive, and unnecessary.
>>32x is bad is a meme
>>AVGN is wrong. The thing is not that bad.
And still noone on this thread can list anything else than two or three "ok" games and some -on every other console- ports like MK2. So its a shitty Virtua Racing machine?
I've owned one since 1995. I own about eight or nine games for it.
And I can confidently say that aside from two or three of those games....
Yes. Yes it is.
>>2847096
>That implies that the PS1's GPU was an incremental upgrade over VDP1
One piece of hardware being more advanced does not imply that it is an incremental upgrade, or that it is in any way related. It's just a question of how efficiently the given task is done - the one method that achieves a better result with less resources and more flexibility, is undeniably more advanced as far as computing goes.
>VDP1 actually has the better theoretical approach for doing 2D than PS1 GPU because it has far less overhead when your overdraw is kept to a minimum.
But if you keep overdraw to minimum, then you are not really doing anything the PS1 GPU can't do (twisted scaling, bowties, etc). Except maybe having less distortion due to using quads, and dithering turned off.
>For 2D VDP1 was only let down by slower VRAM and the undercooked transparency modes.
And the less flexible framebuffer modes, lack of flat shading (yes, you can use gouraud shading to do the same, but:), gouraud shading requiring shading tables that require extra time to access, a stupid way of using palettes that makes it even harder to use shading and impossible to use any blending, less usable VRAM (due to fixed framebuffer), inability to texture from framebuffer unless you do it in a roundabout way (copy framebuffer to VRAM first), no 24-bit mode, no texture cache, all draw modes using the same path on the silicon (line draw command will be as slow as a scaled sprite command, assuming they occupy the same size in framebuffer and the scaled sprite is single colour and unshaded).
And probably some other stuff I forgot.
There is also the interaction with the VDP2 which is pretty complex and probably wouldn't work as-is with the PS1 GPU SGRAM setup, since it is designed around alternating SDRAM framebuffer banks.
>>2850341
The 32x Virtua Racing port is the best home port of the game.
But you're right. Outside of a few arcade ports and a few oddities like Tempo and Kolibri there's not much to the system's library.
>>2850341
AVGN himself admitted it: he despises (despised?) Sega when he was a kid, and is very very biased toward Nintendo for no other reason than he grew up with that brand. As a result, he's quite knowledgeable about Nintendo stuff but his understanding of the industry as a whole, and of Nintendo's competition at these time, is lacking to say the least.
As for 32X games, I myself enjoyed: After Burner, Darxide, Knuckles' Chaotix (sometimes gave me headaches as a kid though), Kolibri, Metal Head, NBA Jam, Space Harrier, Star Wars, Virtua Fighter (still fun nowadays on 4:4 stages), and Virtua Racing. I haven't played the whole library and might be missing out on some titles, and I'm not sure what's exclusive and what's not but, there.
Games I definitely did not enjoy: Motocross, Golf thingy.
>>2849263
>PS1's GPU is "better" overall (more flexible, better at 3D and still does 2D alright) but I just think "more advanced" is misleading.
It is more advanced in literally every single way, and the way it uses for rendering works perfectly fine for 2d graphics too, equally well as the VDP1.
The only thing it cannot do is 4-point transforms, which in practice gives it two inabilities compared to the VDP1:
- eliminating perspective distortion in 4-point transformed sprites (you have to use two triangles to approximate such a sprite, and affine mapping screws up the perspective), and
- the inability to use bowtie quads (which you can use to create perfectly round concaves).
The first thing is a trade-off since the machine wasn't designed to run After Burner and Outrunners, but to run Virtua Fighter, and for a 1994 gpu it has no equal at its price point. If it had perspective correction then it could do that too, but that would've raised costs too much.
And the other thing (bowtie quads) is negligible and requires you to do overdraw, which makes transparency a problem. So it isn't that useful in practice. Unless you render to texture and apply that texture to a normal transparent triangle, at which point it is faster to just pre-bake the graphic as a texture.
Why are there so many sega worship threads recently
>>2850741
They're only "worship" threads because you see them as such. Anyone with half a brain can understand they're just regular threads.
>>2850741
I don't begrudge the Sega folk their threads. Soon enough we former Nintendo fans will be in the same boat, only able to reminisce at the company-that-was, while its shambling corpse keeps skullfucking its own legacy. :(
>>2850726
I don't remember any game using bowtie quads on the Saturn. I remember this being a thing in the SDK (the Sonic demo model used one for his eyes) and talks about it for X-Treme. Interesting quirk. But did any released game used that?
>>2850741
Because Sega is retro
Also because Sega is fucking great to talk about
I remember a friend of a friend had this and the SegaCD when we visited his house. And I watched them play it and I can tell you, none of he games looked good.
>>2851178
You sound like an expert on the subject. I'm convinced.
>>2851160
That's probably because they weren't very useful, and it was a very hardware specific function. If any games used it, it would most likely be an exclusive title.
>>2840369
Because it costs nothing to produce cartridge reading device and shitload of money for cd drive.
Guys, I'm pretty new to Sega stuff in general. If I get a CDX can I use the 32X on it? Also, I've heard there's a master system adapter too, can I also use it on the CDX?
>>2850704
It's true that the PS1 GPU has a lot of features that the Saturn VDP1 doesn't have, but VDP1's core also has a LOT less overhead for drawing flat textured "sprites" due to its unusual 'rasterizing' process.
PS1 GPU is really only faster at drawing textured "sprites" due to the texture cache and faster VRAM.
If VDP1 were hooked up to the exact same superior memory setup as PS1 GPU it would easily win in those kinds of 2D situations.
>>2852247
Could you explain what you mean by less overhead?
>>2852245
CDX + 32x works, but it won't fit there perfectly stable and it'll block the CD door. They wanted to make a plastic frame for it (that also moved the connector slot behind, so it doesn't block the CD door), but it was never released, probably because it wasn't too popular.
The Master System adapter... I think it works, but it physically doesn't fit, or just barely fits, on the CDX since it was designed for the MD1 and its spherical top. You could get the Master System Converter II (pal/jp only) or some third party converter instead, which have different shapes and are more likely to fit. But, most of those can't do card games, only cartridges.
Don't worry about getting different region converters, they are just passive pin converters, the electronics will work in any unit the same, your only possible problems are the cases not fitting right (JP has different cart slot shape).
>>2852264
Fewer cycles per pixel.
>>2852245
Yes, for both. You don't need the plastic spacer (it's hard to find). It's also easier to load SMS games from a flashcard, instead of dealing with a converter.
>>2852247
I recall Naughty Dog saying that the PS1 was very efficient at pushing untextured polygons, hence a lot of design choices for Crash (for once, the character has no textures at all, even the shoelaces were flat-shaded polys).
>>2852285
PS1 GPU is definitely faster than Saturn VDP1 at Gouraud shading, better memory or not.
It has no advantage over the N64's RDP in that department though.
>>2840362
it was a good idea for a budget system to run along side the saturn, at the time, much like ps3 and ps4 / xb1 and 360 do for each other now. But the entry price was waaaaay too high back then.
they should of cancled the CD and made this 32x as "model 1" and then made the 32x gensis prototype as "model 2" so people could buy "genesis 32x" console or go with the new saturn and phase out the base genesis and 32x addon all together.
