It's pretty widely known by now that the reason the game Sonic X-treme never came out was due to Yuji Naka getting wind of the US dev team behind it using the Nights into dreams engine without his consent. That derailed development of the game and eventually it was cancelled. In hindsight, should Sega should've just told Yuji Naka to screw off and accepted his resignation and just let the US team continue on Sonic X-treme? Was Naka even in the right to demand that sort of pull over the engine, or was it Sega's to use as they pleased? Obviously Naka was a valuable employee(perceivably more so than a bunch of american programmers) but his output for Sega beyond Phantasy star Online doesn't seem particularly important, and he probably wasted time and money on a bunch of non-starter franchises that ended up very niche.
I'm sure I enjoyed PSO more than I would have enjoyed Sonic X-Treme
>Naka leaves
>Oshima takes over Sonic Team
>decides to keep the upcoming next gen Sonic game true to the originals as opposed to setting it in a semi-realistic world with RPG/adventure elements (both Naka's idea)
>Sonic's jump into 3D is as successful as Mario's
I'd miss PSO and Burning Rangers though. Those games were awesome.
>>2840201
There was a lot more shit that happened that lead to X-Treme's cancellation than just Naka refusing STI the NiGHTS engine. That said, X-treme didn't look that great anyways.
>>2840201
>LCD instead of a CRT
I knew Sega was incompetent in the 90s but this is ridiculous.
>>2840226
How are you going to fit a CRT into that cubicle?
Sonic X-Treme was messy anyway. Certainly no Mario 64
>>2840213
>X-treme didn't look that great anyways
Which is probably why Naka refused to lend the engine to begin with.
>>2840213
things could have gotten better you never know
at least naka has continued to make good games
>>2840226
>pentium 4
>90s
>In hindsight, should Sega should've just told Yuji Naka to screw off and accepted his resignation
Never in a trillion years would this have happened, it's well-documented that Japan Sega hated US Sega, and would always prioritize the feels of a native dev, even if it meant sabotaging a potential killer app for a dying console
>>2840269
>Sonic X-Treme
>potential killer app
>>2840276
Letting other devs slap Sonic on any old shit was all Sega had for a while, and when the Saturn was in as dire straits as it was, it might've at least given it a slight money-printing phase for a month or two
>>2840305
this, PSO was garbage. good luck getting any cool items with its awful drop rate unless you use a cheat engine (which everyone did back in the day because sega was dumb)
also not nearly enough content to justify the grind, pvp was kinda fun tho
Sonic X-treme would not have saved the Saturn but I do think Sega was in the right here.
>>2840305
Good luck trying to play diablo on a console online. PSO atleast gave you gameplay more suited to console players.
>>2840208
>Oshima handling Sonic
Judging from how he's been raping the Yoshi games and how Blinx failed, I don't think he could've done a better job tbf.
>>2840350
Artoon hasn't been "raping" the series since Island DS, and I thought Blinx (at least the first one) had some rather neat ideas going for it.
BASED YUJI NAKA SAN THANKS FOR PSO
There was a Windows version of Nights?
>>2840382
I know right?
>>2840201
The two divisions were practically at war with each other throughout the 90s. You should simply count yourself lucky that Sega survived long enough to release the DC and anything at all for the platform without collapsing under their own monumentally stupid weight.
>>2840382
It's just a bad shop
>>2840489
SoA was at "war" with SoJ if you will. That leave the rest of the world doing fine. SoE was doing mighty fine dealing with SoJ, not to mention how successful they were in Brazil & co.
>>2840363
>this
>not rape
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85AB1p6wpaY
>>2840371
PSO was fun when we were kids and played split screen for a few sleepovers and that was it.
>>2840371
>tfw have over 10,000 hours clocked into Episode 1/2/4
also, what happened to the pso threads?
>>2840541
>split screen
>gamecube
BRUH
>>2840547
only the strong survive ;w;
too slow even for /vr/
if you looking to get backinto 4 id recommend
http://ephinea.pioneer2.net/
the admin is an amazing server programmer and totally transparent about it, you can also check your account stats or download your data and leader board features !
http://ephinea.pioneer2.net/lb.php
>>2840519
Well, yes. It's just how absurd the lengths SoA took it with the home company to the point that they pretty much tanked them in spite of Sega's relative successes everywhere else.
>>2840519
More like, SoJ was envious of SoA's success in the 4th gen and did everything they could to sabotage the west after the Genesis, you dumb gooklover.
>>2840578
>Genesis
'Murican
Your point of view is biaised, sorry. Not to say that STI wasn't awesome, but you sure drank the Youtube kool-aid.
>>2840578
Constant conflicts of interest and general apathy towards each other seems the more likely culprit rather than any direct malice.
>>2840598
>Your point of view is biaised, sorry. Not to say that STI wasn't awesome, but you sure drank the Youtube kool-aid.
And you're a misinformed dipshit. SoJ held back several games for the Saturn from coming to both Europe and USA (often gets blamed on Stolar which is wrong, as he was just a puppet), forced SoA to greenlight the 32X, and pre-emptively killed the Dreamcast despite doing relatively well with America having the best ad campaign since Genesis, among other evil things. Don't ever accuse my sources of being from Youtube, you fucking mouthbreathing insipid lying cunt.
>>2840557
I can't sign up. Says this:
>Unable to query proxy database.
>>2840654
Haha, oh wow.
>>2840654
lol.
delusion.
>>2840654
>SoJ held back several games for the Saturn from coming to both Europe and USA (often gets blamed on Stolar which is wrong, as he was just a puppet), forced SoA to greenlight the 32X, and pre-emptively killed the Dreamcast despite doing relatively well with America having the best ad campaign since Genesis, among other evil things.
[citation needed]
>>2840248
this, I'll never understand the fascination that people have with X-treme, it reeks of a good theory with no possible working version.
>>2840541
You're forgetting online play.
>>2840753
Curiosity over what it was and whether it could have been saved and possibly turned around into a better game if SoJ had been a little more helpful, mostly.
That said, the story of Sonic X-Treme's development is more interesting than the game itself.
>>2840201
>It's pretty widely known by now that the reason the game Sonic X-treme never came out was due to Yuji Naka
No, it was because the executives asked for a rewrite mid-project, after they saw a very outdated in-game demo.
And because they never had a concrete game plan, just a bunch of ideas and tech demos that they had to write a game out of, on a platform they didn't have any experience on, in a style they had no experience making before (3d game), with an impossible deadline.
Even if it did came out, the game would have sucked.
>>2840226
That's a pic from the mid 00s running an emulator.
>>2840654
>often gets blamed on Stolar which is wrong, as he was just a puppet
He was a puppet, no question about that, but holding back a lot of Saturn games was his idea not SOJs. The only edict SOJ forced on him was to prepare the ground for the DC launch, which meant putting minimal resources on the Saturn - but that didn't mean that he couldn't have greenlighted more titles from, say, Capcom or SNK.
Funny thing, the one time Stolar decided to explicitly go against SOJ was when he announced the DC at $200 instead of the $250 that SOJ wanted (and then he quit).
>>2840750
The 32x thing was well documented, and it wouldn't have been a bad idea, if they weren't releasing it side to side with the Saturn. If the Saturn came out mid 96, then the 32x could've been successful too.
The other thing is bullshit though, SOJ didn't kill the Dreamcast, they just ran out of money and had to fold or go under. Heck, even Peter Moore (SOA president at the time) came to SOJ and told them that, that if they don't transition to software only, they'll go bankrupt in a year.
SoA fanboys doing history revision blaming everything on SoJ (you know, the guys at Sega who actually MADE video games) and defending jew fucks like Kalinske and Stolar are nauseating.
>but Kalinske saved Sega!
No he didn't, Sega was mad popular in Europe and Latin America without his help.
>>2840664
i have notified the admin, sorry for that, im sure they'll get it fixed later today, best to try back in a fue hours ok !
>>2840927
Did Europe and Latin America even give two shits about the Saturn and Dreamcast? It seems to me that they only actually cared about the Mega Drive.
>>2840946
Well, I was talking about Kalinske, who was only relevant for the Mega Drive/Genesis.
I believe Saturn was somewhat popular in Peru, but not really anywhere else, and the DC was moderately successful mainly due to piracy, but most people were still playing on PS1 or waiting for the PS2, as it was the case in pretty much every other part of the world.
The Master System was popular in both Europe and Latin America though.
>>2840926
>The 32x thing was well documented, and it wouldn't have been a bad idea, if they weren't releasing it side to side with the Saturn. If the Saturn came out mid 96, then the 32x could've been successful too.
The 32X was pretty much the unloved problem child nobody wants to take responsibility for.
>>2840949
Kalinske was actually still around for the disastrous early launch of the Sega Saturn in North America, which had been the fault of Sega of Japan.
>>2840927
SoJ fanboys doing history revision blaming everything on SoA (you know, the guys at Sega who actually SOLD video games) and defending jew fucks like Nakayama and Irimajiri are nauseating.
>but Nakayama saved Sega!
No he didn't. Sega was mad popular in Europe and Latin America without his "help"
>>2840927
We should hear the side of SoE for a difference to see who's telling the truth.
>>2841195
You proved his point by deflecting like a mindless drone
>>2841196
Agreed, would also be cool to hear from Tec Toy, the company that had Sega's license in Brazil and who kept selling Master Systems and Mega Drives until well into the 2000s.
>people actually shitting on based Kalinske ITT
Can we just gas retarded weebfucks already?
>>2841204
>deflecting
The burden of proof is on SoJ, not SoA to make the claim that they weren't responsible for running the company into the ground, because SoJ were higher in the corporate hierarchy.
>>2841209
>based Kalinske
are you really this much of a corporate loyal fuck? Being a fanboy of a business man?
I'm not a fanboy of Irimajiri, I'm a fan of Yu Suzuki.
So Kalinske was good at advertising for american people who enjoy console war-type marketing. Okay.
Again, Sega was popular in Europe and Latin America. Without Kalinske, and without that retarded american-style marketing.
It's not about "picking a side", I'm not gonna say the SoJ directives were "based", they probably did their share of bullshit, but blaming them all on them and not on fucks like Stolar (suddenly I see people here saying that he wasn't even that bad and that all the blame is on SoJ, please niggers).
Both sides were in bad terms with each others, there isn't "good guys" and "bad guys", and again, Sega wasn't just America and Japan only, Europe and Latin America also existe, and Sega was popular there before they became popular with Kalinske on America. Get that into your heards, americans.
>>2841226
>Again, Sega was popular in Europe and Latin America. Without Kalinske, and without that retarded american-style marketing.
That has more to do with Nintendo being utterly AWOL in Europe and Latin America
>>2841235
but they had to compete against the personal computers, MSX and Commodore were big in Europe.
Also, you're underestimating Nintendo, sure they weren't as popular as on America or Japan, but the SNES was still popular, it wasn't like the Turbografx or the Master System on America.
Stop looking for excuses, Sega was popular in Europe and Latin America without or without Nintendo, and without Kalinske's help, they were popular before Kalinske joined the company, and you will have to deal with that.
>>2840269
And they were right with it.
Same was and still is in some points with Nintendo.
American divisions almost always suck because they are dickheads and think they are something better than the rest.
>>2840305
>diablo knockoff
i don't think so captain. also stop shitposting when you obviously never played the game.
>>2840201
I don't think anyone miss X-Treme. Does anyone even miss the Saturn?
>>2841238
>it wasn't like the Turbografx or the Master System on America.
It was almost as bad until late 1994 when Nintendo suddenly kicked into gear.
>>2841246
Come on, plenty of /vr/ love the Saturn.
But I agree, X-Treme was a bad idea in retrospect. I was hyped for it, but actually seeing footage now I can see it was going to be another failed experiment like 3D Blast or Sonic R.
Making Nights was a better idea.
It would have been cool if Naka got to make a fully developed Sonic World though. And no, Sonic Adventure is not like Sonic World.
>>2841238
Popularity from OutRun in Europe is dwarfed by the popularity gained by Kalinske and Sonic in USA and the rest of the world. You are delusional if you think the two can even compare to one another, but then again you are a butthurt defensive Europoor so it's to be expected I suppose.
>>2841249
>almost as bad as Master System and Turbografx in America
no, those 2 were almost obscure in America. Everyone knew about the SNES in Europe.
>>2841253
As expected from a delusional Kalinske corporate loyal fanboy who thinks Sega started being popular in the whole world thanks to Kalinske. Keep on shining you crazy diamond.
You Kalinske fanboys are really amazing honestly, I don't think there's any other fanbase in the world of videogame so devoted to a business man. I'm sure sonyggers only like Kaz ironically, but you guys would really suck on Kalinske's cut dick if given the chance.
Sega would be as irrelevant as NEC if it weren't for the Genesis in America. Deal with it, third-world sperglords.
>>2841267
>in America
exactly, in America.
Not in the rest of the world where Sega was already popular.
>>2841263
>cut dick
You would know, since you love looking at pictures of naked businessmen, you flaming faggot.
>>2841267
Do you know NEC is a big international electronic company, right? I have NEC phones in my work's office.
>>2841270
No, the '80s AM2 fad would've died in Europe and Brazil wouldn't have gotten the leftover scraps from USA.
>>2841272
He was referring to NEC's relevancy in the videogame industry, you pedantic tool.
>>2841273
Haha yeah whatever, keep living in your own fantasy where Sega of America made Sega popular in Europe where Sega was already popular.
>>2841276
Just admit that Sega of America's brilliance is what helped put Sega on the map to the same degree as, say, Nintendo themselves.
>>2841286
Why should I? Sega was already pretty big where I live before Kalinske even joined the company.
I admit that he did a pretty good job in America, but I won't credit him for regions where he wasn't in charge of, it makes no sense.
God damn americans, you really want to take over the whole world even in silly things like this.
>tfw if SoJ weren't so retarded we could've had a Sega PlayStation and possibly killed the Nintendo
If only they'd have listened to Kalinske...
>>2841302
>Sega PlayStation
Yeah, and Sony would own 100% of all the CD-based games profits, so smart.
>killed the Nintendo
I doubt it, Pokemon was around the corner.
>>2841290
>God damn americans, you really want to take over the whole world even in silly things like this.
>only England and I can control the world under the Queen! No other empires should be able to exist!
Oh grow up already you petty manchild.
>>2840753
>I'll never understand
You do at least understand that clear information about how the game was appeared few years ago, and that info about the game was youtube-ready one or two years ago,right? The fascination comes from the fact that during the last decade there only was crap footage and the info got discovered very very slowly. Sonic Xtreme was in the minds of people interested, a great enigma about a lost game on a lost console. Now that the enigma is solved you are right sherlock, it was a game on development and no surprise it is a mess. But the fascination comes from somewhere else and carries a legacy.
>>2840926
Peter Moore went to SEGA to help Microsoft launch the Xbox. Xbox could wear the Dreamcast corpse for a few years thanks to him. That said, SEGA probably needed a miracle anyway.
>SoJ vs SoA
Well this is all well and good, but what does /vr/ think of SKUB?
>>2841235
Fuck no. Nintendo was there, at least in Europe. They just didn't give a shit: this market made less money than the US due to sheer sales volumes alone, and was much more complicated to approach (from multiple languages to the near-impossibility of building a monopoly out of shitty business practices).
>>2841272
Can your NEC phones play PC-E games?
… If yes, I'll need a few to equip my workplace. It would be a refreshing change from seeing people playing Candy Crush on Facebook during work hours.
>>2841495
Wasn't there also shenanigans with Mattel that also fucked things up significantly?
>>2841251
>But I agree, X-Treme was a bad idea in retrospect. I was hyped for it, but actually seeing footage now I can see it was going to be another failed experiment like 3D Blast or Sonic R.
The fact that it was called Sonic X-Treme was a red flag from day one.
>>2841251
> Making Nights was a better idea.
Hadn't Nights already been released by the time STI requested the engine from Sonic Team?
>>2841774
You guys realize there's a fully playable build out now right? It's a pretty fun game. The levels just aren't fleshed out or designed well. But the mechanics are really solid. Much better than the shit pile that was sonic adventure
>>2841825
Yeah, the Nights engine was made for Nights. But Naka had to decide whether to make a new Sonic game (which would have turned out similar to Sonic World, I guess), or a new IP (Nights), and he went for the new IP at the expense of not being able to work on a proper Sonic game.
>>2842027
Sega still wanted more Sonic games regardless of Naka's decision.
Since Sonic World was pretty much the fruits of the work done for Sonic RPG/Sonic Adventure on the Saturn, I imagine that it probably would have turned out like that game but with less features.
>>2841834
it's just bug! with a laggy jump button
>>2842190
An unfinished game is buggy? Color me surprised.
>>2842212
lol you're a funny guy, I'm gonna assume you made a joke
>>2840664
its fixed btw
Personally I don't think Sonic X-Treme was on a good path but who can say where it would have gone? It might have ended up good eventually.
>>2842242
I was wondering when someone would bring this up.
What would Sonic X-Treme have done that was different from Bug! and somehow magically wouldn't be flawed in the same way as Sonic Adventure? And don't say story or plot, there are design documents where so retard wanted to insert an girl Tails "original character donut steel" or Sonic had some retarded grimdark virus that would give Shadow fans boners so that would have just been as shit.
>>2840382
There's a 360, PS3, and Windows (via Steam) port of the PS2 remake. But that picture was photoshopped.
![NZAkLt2[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/8nQXJ69.png "NZAkLt2[1].png")
>>2841834
>levels
>plural
I was under the impression that it had a single "flat" stage with no objective. And what "mechanics" are you even talking about? Controlling the player character?
Are we even thinking of the same build?
>>2840201
>That tiny, hellish cubicle
>>2844773
http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=34038&st=0
>>2844949
Oh, neat. My only gripe is that it's not on the saturn.
Looks interesting though.
>>2840308
PSO was not garbage, it's definitely grindy and repetitive as fuck but garbage it is not
one of my most memorable experiences from that era was marathon play sessions over fucking dialup
>>2840578
um, yeah, that's kind of what "being at war" entails
the raging jealously over the success of the unshowered gaijin versus the holy japanese empire caused them to emphatically sabotage every single thing SOA tried to do to grow the business and make the right moves to increase their market share
>>2840927
what world do you live in? Without Kalinske, Nilsen and the rest of the SOA crew, Sega would have been completely fucking irrelevant during the 16bit era
Japan was totally clueless about the home market, and the idiots they had running SOA before Nakayama came along were probably slightly worse
>>2840201
>It's pretty widely known
Is it? I thought it was one of the infinite unsourced rumours about the game.
Face it, nobody fucking knows why it didn't happen. Every single story we've heard is bollocks, I'd bet.
>>2845245
>what world do you live in?
Neither in USA or Japan, so I know Sega was popular where I live and Kalinske and co. had nothing to do with it.
Sega was already popular in Europe and Latin America before the 16-bit era.
>>2845247
I'm not well versed on the entirety of TecToy's business history, but I know they made the master system in brazil and other LA countries pretty popular, same with the Mega Drive. And I don't think Nintendo entered the latin american market after the 16 bit era, I know Nintendo officially released the NES and SNES in latin america, but Tec Toy's stuff was more affordable since it was all manufactures in brazil.
I also know Tec Toy commercialized the Saturn, but I don't think it took off, then again I'm not completely sure, maybe some BRo could give is some more insight about Tec Toy, but again, I'm pretty sure Tec Toy and Sega had to compete against not only Nintendo, but also the chinese "Family Game" famiclones that were also very common in latin america, and still Master System was pretty popular (whereas it was an obscure system in USA)
>>2844949
Except there is.
http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=34255&st=0
