>darker, grittier story.
>more spoopy levels means variety to gameplay.
>supernatural elements like in 'the sword' gave a more unique atmosphere over 'big mansion' levels.
>garret more of a snidey cynic than a bag of hokey one-liners.
>return to the cathedral
Why is Thief 2 so often cited as the best Thief?
>>2839452
Probably because more people would see that list just as much as a reason to dislike thief 1 over 2.
So there's more people out there who don't prefer varied levels and a more unique tone?
Thief 2 is great don't get me wrong, but it feels like the changes made larely weren't for the better. Bigger levels ushered away the tighter feel that many thief 1 maps had, and people point out zombies/burricks in the 1st as silly, while being perfectly content with aiming for portable boiler hatches on talking bipedal robbots with their water arrows.
^^ This was OP btw.
Fan missions are excellent no doubt, but I'm talking about just Thief 1/2 here
>>2839452
>>2839515
To be honest, I gave Thief what I thought to be a good go(up to The Old City mission). It really got to be too spooky for my young self(don't ask why) at that point, so I ended up dropping it. I was also not so much of a hardcore gamer that I played all the time on higher difficulty levels, and I didn't care for abrupt ending of levels once you completed your objectives.
That said, Thief 2 I really got into, and when I came back to Thief 1, my view of the game was skewed. I'd like to go back to Thief 1(if only to relive Constantine's mansion), but I haven't worked up the energy to do so.
The supernatural, spooky themes of Thief 1 were way more interesting than than the dull steampunk stuff from Thief 2.
>Why is Thief 2 so often cited as the best Thief?
But it's not. Most of the hardcore fans (ttlg and the like) think thief 1 is the superior game. It's mostly here on 4chan that people think otherwise
Who cares about the story? Thief was all about the gameplay.
I'm trying to play through these and finish them for the first time. I've made a few attempts at Thief 1 and 3, but never got all that far.
I'm enjoying Thief Gold so far; my only real complaint is that some of the levels are so mazelike without defining features that it's really easy to run in circles for awhile, especially if you saved mid-level and come back to it after a couple days.
I'm on the Lost City now. I use guides just to make sure I'm going in the right direction; I finally found one that just gives compass directions instead of "go left, then right, then up, then left, then right" etc which is really confusing if you're not at the exact point they're talking about.
I like how Garrett starts sighing when you get spotted repeatedly by guards in Thief Gold. I don't think this carried over to the sequel.
They're both good and I hear the first Thief called the best just as often as Thief II. Calm your shitposting and just talk about the game.
Thief 2 has a more complicated story and more "setpieces" for lack of a better term, like when you can eavesdrop on Karras talking to the sheirff on the first monastary mission. I remember seeing an interview where the level designers said the levels in I were designed like realistic places, architectural plans, and in II they were more like linear paths. Compare the first mansion in I to the first mansion in II, to say nothing of the rooftop or underground levels. This allowed them to place more scripted events and opened possbilities for storytelling.
Normally when there's a change like this in between sequels I'd call it a matter of preference. However, Thief's strength is artistic more than technical so I think II is a superior game. Thief had one of the best settings ever to make it to a full budget game and we got to see much more of that world and its characters with the different approach to level design.
>>2840359
>not appreciating thief's lore
>>2841783
Lore doesn't matter in a videogame, if I wanted a good story I'd read a book.
>>2841795
Good lore can only help, which Thief has.
>>2839452 I thought that the Steam-Punk ascetic of Thief 2 fitted in the universe way more then the kind of medieval pseudo-magic universe in Thief 1. It kind of felt cookie-cutter and that the atmosphere felt forced
>>2840359
Why intentionally ignore great aspects of a game when you could enjoy the whole?
>>2841795
Alright, apparently it's possible to hate lore in a video game.
But one thing that you won't get from a book, which Thief does amazingly well, is atmosphere.
>>2839705
The Lost City was a pretty savage level the first time around, I'm not ashamed to admit I looked up a guide for that one too. Thief 1 is absolutely worth playing though, even if you feel a bit spoiled by the second games bigger levels & more confident design. It's more questionable levels are dotted throughout the game rather than all lumped at the end which I felt gave it a much better flow than the second.
Thieve's Guild still sucks though.
>>2839452
I wonder the same thing.
Thief 1: You're a master thief who steals from aristocracy, gang leaders, eccentrics, the undead, tombs riddled with beasts, traps and undead and ultimately the trickster god of that world who is actually a real thing.
Thief 2: You steal from a prominent cult that uses highly advanced security equipment
I think the achievements you make in Thief 1 are way more admirable in terms of difficulty. Think of it like this: In Thief 1 you play a DnD style Thief that actually manages to go solo on every adventure and come out on top.
>>2843596
While Thief 2 is a victorian burglar simulator. Pretty much agree.
>>2839705
I also got too spooped to play thief 1 all the way through when I was a kid. Those mines man.
>>2843578
Are the Thief 2 levels a little easier to navigate in? I'm usually okay in Thief 1's actual building levels, but a lot of the caves and ruins can get really confusing.
>>2844417
For the most part, yes. Most the missions are just victorian houses. Then there's the last mission which is even worse than thieves guild
GIVE ME YOUR BEST FAN MISSIONS
>>2846341
Seven Shades of Mercury 4evar
Which is the game that most people play fan missions in, 1, 2 or 3?
>>2847070
T2, but both Gold and T2 have a shitton
>>2847070
2 but a lot of my favorites are for T1/TG. Never tried DS but TDM has some nice ones as well.
>>2846341
Speaking of Fan Missions, the 72hrs contest missions should be released on Sunday.
>>2847179
>>2846341
>>2847196
I've asked this before I think, but are there any with a Garrett voice actor that doesn't suck, or with decent conversations to overhear? That was always my favorite part of information gathering in thief, and it seems like most fms I've played opt for finding written notes for everything instead.
>>2848175
A Night in Rocksbourg 3: Ink and Dust most probably has the best voice acting in any FM. Mission X also comes to mind (though you don't play as Garrett).
>>2842907
There's lots of atmosphere in books
>>2848175
There was one guy on /v/ who used to post vocaroos of his Garret impressions.
He was pretty much indistinguishable from the actual VA.
>>2848718
I remember that guy. Wish he'd do some work for FMs.
You know what I really want? A recreation of Thief 3 in the dark engine. Replace the mission briefings with sketch briefings. replace the shitty fake english accent voices with decent ones... But who has time for that.
>>2848561
It doesn't really get to me. It's just text.
>>2848846
Sometimes I hate having a wild imagination. This is not one of those times.
>>2848860
It's terrible when you're trying to sleep. Otherwise allows for finding fun solutions to problems that probably don't even exist.
Thinking about hosting some Thievery UT at some point in the future if any of you are interested. There'll be a thread up in /vr/ when it happens...
>>2851039
>Thievery UT
That takes me back. It died ages ago.
I remember playing it back in 2008/9 though I came after its prime. I wonder if it still has a dedicated slav following.
>>2848175
A Job Well Done
>>2846341
I haven't played since 07(used to play nonstop and even betatest the darn things, but then uni happen') but here's mine:
Order of the Vine
Ominous Bequest
Into the Maelstrom
Equilibrium
Mixed Messages
Hidden Agenda
L'Arsene
Brawl in the Tombs
Lady Rowena
>>2839705
I replayed it some years ago and stopped at that point. I jumped down and was in a large courtyard, I was looking around standing in the same spot because the noises were creeping me out and I wanted to find the source before I moved from the spot. And then I found a single zombie slowly walking down the ramp towards me from a great distance. I just quit the game there. Sure, I shouldn't be scared but the atmosphere broke my will to the point a single of those shambling fuckers was enough to shit my pants.
The boneyard wasn't that scary for me because I expected supernatural beings in every corner because, well it was a catacombs level. But the Old City... learning that they had to wall off a section of the city... I still shiver thinking of it.
>>2843873
When I got the game at the age 14 I got scared when I saw those zombies come back up again.
4 new missions these past few days: 3 for the 72 hours contest, and a big rooftop mission for Thief 2.
I think the steampunk aspect of Thief 2 was fine but they couldn't make the story conclude as satisfyingly as Thief 1 (nor make the levels as interesting). T2 had some really great maps especially in the early game (also regards to Trail of Blood, Life of the Party, and Kidnap), but overall T1's tone and atmosphere made the levels stick out a bit more.
>>2859643
4 things which make me prefer 1 to 2(though 2 has the better FMs and enemies):
The story is much more subdued but also more personal. You get introduced to the villain early on, the pieces are set but there's nothing too overt until the twist. And that twist is good, IMO, it leaves you feeling vulnerable.
Dark Project has much more pronounced shadows and lights. Several areas use black textures to further the visual aspects of darkness. On the other hand, the ambient light is stark white, iirc.
You'll always make some noise unless it's carpet/moss. Fans love to call that tapdancing shoes, and I get it, but it makes you consider loadouts and environment a bit more. Marble's a total bitch! Conversely, that's usually found in some extravagantly rich place so tapdancing actually adds to tension.
Nostalgia too. I must've played the Bafford's demo dozens of times as a 12 yearer squirt.
>nearly finished T2
>can't get through Soulforge
I thought the last couple of missions in TG were bad, but this is a whole new level. I'm even considering using a guide.
>>2839452
I personally believe that Thief:Gold is better than 2
>>2860238
That and Thieves' Guild are the worst missions of the whole two games, I ctrl+alt+shift+end'd Thieves' Guild after wandering around for two hours and I almost couldn't bring myself to finish Soulforge, even using a guide.
I just completed Thief 2 tonight, so now I feel like I have the chops to post in these threads.
The biggest difference I felt between T1 and T2 was your ability to neatly pile up the bodies of every enemy in the center of the map. I tend to clear out a place and then explore at leisure, and I found this more doable in T1.
>>2862737
Soulforge took me over two hours. I didn't realize there would be a whole second half of the map where you activate the antennae, so I was out of health and water arrows by the time I got there. My final antenna was the one through the turret room, and I sprinted all the way back to the start of the level with 2 health.
At least Karras' narration kept the level fresh. I'd been waiting to have dialogue with the guy. It's good to hear the rest of the community takes issue with Thieves' Guild. Shit was long, convoluted, and irrelevant to the plot.
>>2860249
I agree. T1 had more spooky, more bunnyhop blackjacking, and more villain confrontation.
Finally beat Thief Gold, now I'm on to Thief 2. To be honest I didn't find TG all that scary, though the last few levels got a bit creepy. I think I was more creeped out by the Trickster's minions than I was by the undead.
>>2864773
Follow-up, I'm actually enjoying the Thief 2 levels a lot more. It feels easier to figure out where I am and where I'm going. I think I also prefer robbing mansions and moving through the city to cave exploring, too.
was posted on /v/ last night.
>>2864009
I actually like the lack of villain confrontation in Thief 2. It's sneakier.
Could've done with more spooky in thief 2. Just one area, and it's easily escaped.
Bunny hopping was silly.
I always thought the equipment balance in T1/G was way too abundant. Most missions start you off with 20+ broadheads before you even buy any. I think one gave you 50. Fifty fucking arrows. They're mostly useless to anyone playing on Expert, anyway. Same with water arrows: not only do most missions start you off with a lot of them, those areas where you find crystals will have like three of them. The elementals in The Lost City weren't really threatening when I ended up with more water arrows at the end of the mission than when I started.
>>2864007
I usually play like that too. But I played one FM recently where the Expert setting also enforced ghosting, and I really enjoyed the tension that that added. You can't just take everyone out then run around hopping on all the marble. I think if the blackjack were removed from the games entirely, they'd be more fun. Flash bombs would be for escaping or getting past tricky spots, rather than running around drawing attention then dropping a flash so you can BJ everyone in the room.
>>2866419
The police station level in T2 was actually pretty interesting for that. I finished it last night on Expert, so I wasn't able to take anyone out and had to ghost it, something I hadn't done in 1 or 2 much since it was just easier to blackjack people and stack them like firewood somewhere. It felt surprisingly smooth and fun to have to sneak all the way through without interacting with anyone.
>>2839452
Well, all I can say is that it's Thieftoo.
Damn, 2015 is ending beautifully. This month we got:
- Nobles & Craftsmen, a huge rooftop mission for T2
- Four missions made for the 72hrs. One of them is a newbie mission, while the other three are made by what looks like to be veterans and are very well worth a playthrough or two as they are of quite high quality. A late entry was released an hour ago and it is amazing.
- Not retro, but Behind Closed Doors for TDM is a must play.
Other FMs of note include the Gems of Provenance campaign, Of Thieves and Rubies, The Chalice of Souls and A Job Well Done.
I don't know whether I love trail of blood or hate it.
>>2867003
How would you say fan mission layout compares to the original game? Do they tend to be more or less confusing?
T1 is a slightly better game overall, but it really is splitting hairs to rank one of these games over the other.
T2 had a better engine and in general the game mechanics were better refined, but a lot of it was rough around the edges. The company literally went bankrupt during development so I can understand why that happened.
I will continue to defend Deadly Shadows though, the whole thing just got fucked up the ass with a lead designer who didn't have enough experience to lead an entire project and being forced to gimp the entire thing to work on the original Xbox.
The focus on the builders had you stealing stuff in a more mundane and relatable way instead of the Peter Pan stuff in Thief 1. Bigger levels and better engine really helped too.
>>2867503
They tend to be bigger with more stuff to steal and more areas to explore.
>>2840359
People care because LGS put so much effort into it, and they did it well. It was incorporated into gameplay without it getting in the way (for the most part).
>>2867003
Oh fuck that shit looks tight.
>>2871951
The only one you're even remotely right about is number 2, but there are some FMs that span across a decent story.
Some of the missions levels designs are on par or better than the originals, and some have super near elements to them, but end up being a little too mazelike imo. Calendras... Cistern was it? was like that for me. It didn't feel as open as it could've and the passageways/areas didn't feel natural to me... Other anons here know more about FMs though. I would recommend T2X for a whole 15 or so mission Thief game. The story is a little meh and the voice acting is hit or miss, but the missions are pretty fucking great overall.
>>2872184
Neat*... not near
>>2871951
The Thief community is actually super serious about it and don't brook stupid gimmicks or badly designed levels. They're almost NO FUN ALLOWED about maintaining quality.
The upswing to this is that the popular fan missions are popular because they're actually good, not because they pander.
>>2872254
>They're almost NO FUN ALLOWED about maintaining quality.
There are a few stupid joke FMs out there. Like that christmas one... A thieves christmas I think it's called? Maybe I'll see if I can multiplayer that one with a friend of mine this year.
>>2871951
>1) the quality of level design probably won't be as good as the official levels
There's almost a thousand missions released throughout the years so the quality varies a lot. Check recommended lists, as a rule of thmb more recent missions (2009 and on) tend to be much more polished.
>2) there's not a big story tying them together
There are a bunch of campaigns out there, the biggest and most well known being t2x. Most individual missions also try to respect the lore and tie their stories with that of the official games in some way or another.
>3) probably full of fan memes/in-jokes
There are several joke missions but I don't believe fan memes are a thing.
You should probably check them out and decide for yourself. Earlier missions are usually more rough around the edges but they have a charm that most newer missions lack, and there are a lot of great missions you will not see in any recommended list because they stray away from the usual mansion heist (undead fms in particular seem to be generally disliked) or simply get overlooked in favor of the more popular ones (big circlejerk mentality in the community)
>>2871951
A lot of them are stand-alone but the format of Thief's missions lends itself to that pretty well. Sometimes you don't need more than the old "rent is due" premise. These are some commonly recommended ones (and ones that I personally enjoyed)
T2X: Shadows of the Metal Age (it's an entire game)
The Inverted Manse
Disorientation
Rocksbourg series
Conspiracies in the Dark
Trail of Blood 2
The 7 Shades of Mercury
Calendra's Cistern (consider the recent updated version)
Calendra's Legacy
Between These Dark Walls
Shadow Politics
Endless Rain
The Ashen Age
Rose Cottage
The Unseen
Bad Debts
The Hand of Glory
Mystic Gems: Heart of Bohn
The Power of Suggestion
The Order of the Vine
A Better Tomorrow
Unbidden Guest
The 7th Crystal
Augustine's Revenge
Heist Society
The Seven Sisters
Broken Triad
Bones Ep1: The Old Quarter
Returning a Favor
The Black Frog
Sepulcher of Sinistral
COSAS: Mission X
Greyfeather Gems (Part 1: The Shipment, and Part 2: Rodamill)
Shadow of Doubt
Third Time's the Charm
Relic - Left for Dead
Saints and Thieves
Stone and Glass House
The Tower
The Saint of Redmound
Hidden Agenda
L'Arsene series
Amoral Dilemma
Ominous Bequest Gold
Death's Turbid Veil
Breaking the Stone
Exile
Kingsbridge
Gems of Provenance
Lorgan's Web
Lady Whitman's Disease
Chalice of Souls
Of Thieves and Rubies
Whispers in the Desert
From Beneath the Sands
Pirates Ahoy!
Sturmdrang Peak
Rowena's Curse
Evil Thievery
The Widow's Ire
Into the Maelstrom
>>2871951
Melan's and Skacky's have top notch quality stories and readables, you feel like you're playing an official extension of Thief.
Why do people recommend the Dark Mod? It's not nearly as good as people say it is.
>annoying AI
>stiff gameplay
>poor visual and audio quality
>loading... loading... time... s...
>>2872296
That Bubsy one probably wins the contest of bizarre FMs. The thing is, that one probably took a lot of effort to make.
>>2872974
>rent is due
Is Garrett really really bad with money? He usually lives in small simple rooms; they can't be very expensive. The stuff he's stealing is worth huge amounts of money. Even if he's getting a small fraction of the true worth when he fences it, one fancy crown or bigass jewel should probably pay for at least a year's worth of living expenses. Or are these things just really common and devalued?
I think the early Thief 2 missions are really top notch, like Shipping&Receiving, Framed, Eavesdropping and Blackmail.
I find the later ones can even remotely hold a candle.
>>2873627
can't hold a can candle, I mean.
>>2873627
While I prefer Thief Gold, I have to say that Thief 2 has some of the series most underrated levels in the form of Eavesdropping and Precious Cargo, underrated from my point of view.
I on the other hand find the last stretch of levels in T2 to be sublime, with the exception of Kidnap which I think is the worst level in the game. Masks/Casing the Joint have such an interesting mansion that I didn't all mind the repeat of the same map. Sabotage at Soulforge is genius. Some other levels like Trail of Blood are such gems that I'm eternally glad Looking Glass included in the game.
The reason I prefer the original game is it was like OP said, much more darker and oppressive, with a feeling of genuine loneliness while you were playing Garrett. The variety of enemies and different level scenarios made it more enthralling while Looking Glass regressed on that to make appeasements T2, which made it more tedious without the likes of breathers like Trail of Blood. Just my two cents, but I can't stand people who shoehorn TDS in between the two games when rating them, when they're pretty much two volumes of a fantastic book.
>>2873623
He's really bad with money. He spends most of it on booze and women and gambles away the rest.
>>2873623
>Is Garrett really really bad with money?
it's one of those things in thief that is a bit of a joke, that despite Garrett living modest accommodations, he's either a very inconspicuous profligate spender or he does it because he's a klepto and gives it all away or something. It's heartening to me if the explanation isn't realistic. Either way, those motivations for Garrett are still refreshing really.
>>2873660
What exactly makes you think kidnap was the worst level in the game? I can kind of a agree, since it's mostly a series of mechanist garrisons without anything else going on, with the exception of Cavador's "home" and the barracks area at the very start.
I really, think Casing the Joint and Masks needed another level inbetween them, the Gervasius manor had a lot to it, no doubt, but replaying the map twice in a row is grating and certainly not helped by the fact that it's the penultimate mission/s
and likewise, a lot of people really talk up how good Life of Party is, but I feel they say this always forgetting about how dull Angelwatch is.
For some reason, I never like Shipping & Receiving. It's such a massive level to fully explore, that whenever I replay the game I just think "oh boy, better get this over with". Not that it's bad, but it's probably the rather bland warehouse setting that bores me. My idea of massive levels done right are like Life of the Party, lots of different environments and nooks & crannies to explore.
>>2873676
>kidnap was the worst level in the game
when I think of how Looking Glass were rushing at full speed so it'll come out at the specific date, Kidnap really comes to mind rather than the more obvious choice of Masks/Casing. I just really dislike the level. The reuse of Lost City assets, the rather unrefined layout and environments where they just splurged it on top of the Lost City to show that there was a current Mechanist operation/excavation on it. The mission is a fucking nightmare to stealth properly, let alone ghosting, you have to constantly lure the guards out of the lit areas. Lots of areas have multiple guards on specific routes, and getting max loot is horrible considering you have to make constant noise on the shadowy outskirts of each area to lure the guards out and knock them out. A lot of shadows in the mission are buggy in that your light gem will never go fully dark, or at least below the threshold meter of being properly seen. Not to mention you can't get max loot in the mission, considering something like 50 gold is stuck somewhere underneath the map. Just fucking terrible overall.
The only good exceptions is the building in the very beginning and the fact that Cavador just goes from area to area on his own with an entourage of guards, forcing you to try to find him out, which I thought was a neat idea.
I can totally see why people would rather pick Masks/Casing for worst mission in the game, or even Sabotage which is quite unintuitive and unwelcoming (while I personally think is a terrific ending level), but Kidnap takes the cake for me, just the overall package brings up almost as much bile as Thieves Guild does. It's not as notorious because at least it had rather okay layout.
>>2873676
cont.
> lot of people really talk up how good Life of Party is, but I feel they say this always forgetting about how dull Angelwatch is.
well everyone's opinions on the levels are different, which I think is a good sign for such a series.
I personally liked Lost City and Mage Towers, while some people utterly hate it. Other people hated the last few levels of the original Thief with its over-the-top weirdness, which was one of the major factors that led LG to abandon the fantasy/undead stuff, but those levels really grew on me. I think the Escape! level was really well designed, people just didn't like the unexpected violence and nature of the enemies in the level. Everyone has their own preferences, and that's great.
>>2873696
I don't care much for escape because in the very beginning, there is such a high concentration of monsters that makes stealth frustrating.
I enjoyed Strange Bedfellows a lot more in contrast
>>2873682
I think part of the reason I enjoy S&R so much is because of all the little things about the city it tells you, all the business goings on and you get a lot of interaction with the present tech of the setting.
I think it's a great second level, it's massive and free-form while also fleshing out the setting, and giving the player glimpses of elements yet to come in the game, like the mechanist robots and cameras.
what's with the single Hammer guard in Masks?
>>2873696
>I personally liked Lost City and Mage Towers
Ditto. Seeing everyone shit on them is weird, because they're different enough to stand out imo, but similar enough to fit into the setting well. The mage towers feel like something you'd see in a painting in thief.
>>2874018
He's supposed to have a conversation but it doesn't trigger.
>>2874084
that fire tower though.
But seriously I like mage towers and I certainly feel like it gets too much hate, but the towers themselves are a huge nuisance because they're large, well-lit and the fucking metal grating is grating.
twas a boiler hiss and nothing more
>>2872296
If you can multiplayer ANYTHING, please tell me how.
>>2876564
I've done it before. I don't remember how, but you pretty much just set it up however it says on the ttlg thread, and then give your entire thief directory to the person you're connecting with. Eliminating inconsistencies is key iirc
Why aren't burricks nearly as creepy or threatening as they should have been, and why were they eliminated completely after the first game?
>>2880971
People didn't like the supernatural aspects of the first game.
BUILD THYSELF TODAY; A GOOD HOUSE. THAT WOULD PLEASE HIM MUCH
>>2881154
I think they toned the supernatural elements way too much for thief 2. The world in general just feels so bland and "normal" compared to the original.
>>2881247
I like the focus on machinery and technology. It feels like a natural reflection of the first games mysticism and wizardry.
Not to mention the science in Thief 2 was practically magic anyway.
What made karras a r9k/hitler mix?
>>2881413
Too smart for his own good. Too arrogant for the good of others.
>>2881450
that wouldn't inherently make him a genocidal maniac
>>2881154
Were Burricks supernatural? I always thought they were just your standard fare cave monsters.
just beat Sabotage at soulforge for the first time. it was one hell of a trip. I liked it a lot better than the two before it.
But was there any point to the basement area? the one you can competely black out?
>>2877237
Yes, but having it run on OldDark on two PCs is twice the impossible
>>2884574
Yeah, it's not exactly user friendly. It would be nice if someone were to pick up the project, or start from scratch for NewDark. Getting a couple of thieves running around in a big map could be pretty damn fun.
Hope NewDark dev takes on the task, or someone else out there with the know-how/code base takes the reigns... A man can dream.
I tried hosting UT99's thievery mod, but my server computer will not work with any game based off UT99, while it runs Unreal just fine. So that's out of the question. I spent hours trying to get it to run with no improvement what so ever. Can't even join a lan game, just sits at "connecting" without ever actually making the attempt...
Does newdark do anything for ss2s net code?
>>2881469
People were amazed by his inventions and it escalated from there
