2d > 3d
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You are currently reading a thread in /vr/ - Retro Games
You are currently reading a thread in /vr/ - Retro Games
Which franchise survived the transition from 2d to 3d the best? Pic related
>mfw Douk Forever
>>2832017
GTA did.
/thread
Whoever says Mario or Zelda will go to hell.
>>2832045
Yeah, god forbid anyone mention those 2 franchises.
By the way, I'll say Bomberman. The classic bomberman games are still classic, but the 3D ones are pretty fun too (plus, they're not as popular so they don't get undeserved hate!)
Mario and Zelda did pretty much perfectlyin my opinion
Ecco did pretty well
Shinobi, Out Run etc all did but the 3D games aren't /vr/
uhh
This is harder than I thought it'd be...
Sonic
>>2832094
Sonic World was good
Castlevaniadid not
>>2832106
I don't think the N64 andPS2games were bad.
LoS sucked though.
>>2832107
They are not bad games, but Castlevania was meant for 2D
Outrun. Not the shitty Sega Ages on PS2 3D version, but Outrun 2.
>>2832108
I have seen Dark Souls fans compare it to a 3D Castlevania, but to me Dark Souls is similar to a 3D Zelda with Zelda 2 gameplay.
F-Zero
Obviously Mario & Zelda. Final Fantasy transitioned with no problems. Yep, Bomberman was cool. All racing games became improved by 3d.
Devil May Cry is kind of a 3d clone of Castlevania, but they added the button mashing fun of a beatemup. Castlevania was not very groundbreaking but it was very inspiring to other early 3d games.
>>2832037
GTA was always 3D.
>>2832049
>>2832126
Zelda yes, it went from explore, fight and puzzle to explore, fight and puzzle. Pretty much perfect.
Mario thought, he went from fight, jump and run to explore, jump and run. He changed, ultimately for the better, but they didn't manage to truly translate Mario into 3D.
RPGs and racers are a stupid answer.
>>2832017
in terms of popularity, fallout?
>>2832182
Mario fights on Super Mario 64, in fact he can punch and kick.
You can also explore in 2D Mario games and find secrets, especially on World where in some cases, exploring is mandatory to advance.
I get what you mean though, probably the levels that felt the most like 2D Mario games translated to 3D were the Bowser levels on SM64.
3D Land and 3D World did a pretty good job at making linear 3D platforming though, they are full games with the Bowser level design from SM64.
ienjoyedthe 3d metroids
>>2832047
ya bomberman 64 4 player is amazing
>>2832037
>>2832163
You can clearly see that game in your screenshot is 3D, like just look at this scaffolding and buildings around it, it's clearly 3D.
I mean, gameplay is 2D but then I could say Doom has been transplanted pretty well into third dimension with Doom 3, couldn't I?
Or fuck, that Warcraft III is actually a 2D game.
>>2832182
Uh, what you have written fits for Super Mario 64, yes, but Galaxy and 3D World/3D Land are much closer to classic Mario games, except in 3D.
>>2832121
The problem with Dark Souls is that you could say it keep essence of a Castlevania game - monsters, dark atmosphere, puzzles and combat, rpg elements, story told more through environments than dialogue, but removes all the platforming, and Castlevania always was about precise platforming in perilious environments (stairs, medusa heads) and this was kept even in Metroidvania installments, if toned down. Platformer is what Castlevanias are, and you can't remove it fully.
>>2832184
Popularity, sure. But truth is that Fallout 3 and 4 weren't really Fallout games, and New Vegas is the only one that kinda managed to transplant the feel of original games into 3d.
I personally say Wasteland, because Wasteland 2 rocks.
>>2832163
>>2832219
Shit! You guys are right. I totally ignored that.
But the gameplay was 2D after all.
>>2832121
The 3D Castlevania games are actually pretty good.
>>2832219
The vehicles and people were 2d before gta3 I think. There were some 3d effects with the buildings, but there were also 3d effects with the backgrounds on castlevenia on the Game Boy, and we don't consider that a 3d game.
>>2832098
You are dead to me.
>>2832037
It's the opposite.
>>2832017
Can be 2D plane + height considered as the 2D?
>>2832108
I don't think so. Castlevania 64 is the only 3D Castlevania that got it right. It is just a shame that it was during the time when they were trying to figure 3D out and the first transition of Castlevania from 2D to 3D.
Castlevania is an action platformer, you often don't spend too much time hitting enemies to kill them so the combat is fairly quick along with needing to actually platform in the game or end up having to start from the beginning of the platforming sequence or end up dying.
>>2832126
>all racing games became improved by 3D
3D Top Gear games are mostly shit, also Test Drive.
>>2832191
2D Mario games are about rhythm. Play an old Mario game that you love and have mastered--Mario 1, 3 or World, really--and just marvel at the rhythm and perfect timing. You can just effortlessly float through a level and it's a joy, and if you start fucking up, it's typically because you lost the rhythm.
3D Mario games have no rhythm. They are about waiting, they are about looking around, they are about careful positioning. It's an entirely different animal.
>>2832460
It's hard to do CV without combat, as a big part of CV is knowing how to navigate while accounting for enemies. Like all those platforms you can't go across before first taking care of bone pillars, for example.
Is anyone here going to argue Outrun was not 2D? Otherwise I'm going to vouch for it.
>>2832515
If you really believe that then I'm sorry but you just suck at 3D Mario. Mario 64 is fast as fuck when you know what you're doing, diving, longjumps, wall jumps and backflips all give you a crazy amount of movement options and speed.
The only parts of Mario 64 I can think of where you ever have to wait are the elevator rides in the volcano and the carpets in that sky level, but both those areas have significantly large portions where you can move around at your own pace. And those carpet/elevator riding segments have a lot in common with the autoscrolling levels that have been part of the series since Mario 3, wherein you're given a limited area to move and must dodge obstacles coming towards you rather than moving through them at your own pace. It's perfectly fine not to like that kind of gameplay, but it didn't start with 64.
Oh, and I guess if you beat the racing Koopa quickly then you have to wait for him to finish, but that's two stars out of more than a hundred.
>>2832017
Except Duke 3D was 2.5D and all the actual 3D Duke games were ASS
A
S
S
WHAT'S THAT SPELL?! ASS!
I'm surprised nobody has said Metal Gear yet.
>>2832504
Test Drive has been 3D since the beginning. Also, Test Drive Unlimited is a nearly perfect Test Drive/The Need For Speed game in theory. Eden fucked up with mandatory online and bad character models, but the concept, and even the majority of the execution is flawless
>>2832637
Outrun had a camera placed behind the car at a low angle. Objects appeared in the distance, scaled up when coming closer towards the virtual camera. Objects closer to the camera would obscure distant objects. It's as 3D as it can be. Implementation details are meaningless.
>>2832045
>Mario 64
>not a good transition to 3D
>inb4 that pasta by that sperg who couldn't grasp how to not work the analog stick like a retard
>>2832094
Funny.
>>2832182
I was gonna bring up NSMB2 but the gameplay is 2D for that I think.
>>2832020
Duke 3D might have been 2.5D with it's graphics but the gameplay was very much 3D, remember that the first two games were 2D sidescrollers. Duke transitioned excellently to 3D.
>>2832639
>Mario 64 is fast as fuck when you know what you're doing, diving, longjumps, wall jumps and backflips all give you a crazy amount of movement options and speed.
This, absolutely.
>>2833725
No, really, I was disappointed by these games.
I know 3D Castlevania will never play like 2D Castlevania, but at least CV64 and the PS2 games had good 'vania aesthetics and music.
The LoS games felt like generic fantasy titles with the Castlevania title slapped on them.I also really wanted to like them because finally there is a vidya protagonist that has my name, and he's a fucking Belmont.
The 3DS game was especially bad, it could have been a good classicvania, but instead it was God of War: Sidescroller edition.
They should have gotten Wayforward to do it.
>>2832723
TD1 and 2 didn't look 3D to me, is it some graphic trick I'm unaware? I've said "mostly" anyway. I particularly enjoy TD5 and TDU even though they wouldn't figure in my top 10 list of racing games.
>>2832654
I heard Manhattan Project was cool, like it was basically a 2D sidescroller like the old ones but with 3D graphics.
DNF was very bad though, the weapons were pretty much like in DN3D, but they were totally crippled by the 2 weapon limit, old FPS weapons don't work with a tiny carry limit, imagine if in Doom, you could only have 2 guns, and instead of finding ammo around for reloads, you're expected to shoot away the ammo you get with a weapon pickup and then find a replacement weapon to swap it out with.
It's the most frustrating gunplay I've ever encountered in any videogame ever.
In Duke 3D it was fun to find a hidden Shrinker, you could save it for when you thought it was necessary and/or funny.
In Forever, you find a Shrinker, it has 10 shots, you're meant to use it NOW, then you ditch it for a shotgun or pistol because you need to hang on to more generally useful weapons with more ammo, you can't realistically save a fun gun for later and it's terrible.
It's like all the DN3D guns are there, in most aspects, but there's an awful gameplay scheme forced onto them.
Gearbox said 2 weapons was the only way to make it playable on consoles, but this is a blatant lie, there's perfectly good ports of DN3D and Doom on 7th and 8th gen consoles.
The problem with DNF isn't a transition to real 3D, it's mainly abysmal gameplay.
Mario
Metal Gear
Final Fantasy
Civilization
Duke Nukem
X-Com
Prince of Persia
>>2833736
TD1 and 2 are classic linescrollers, like OutRun and many others, which means they use a shitload of approximations to greatly reduce any 3D calculations. Regardless, the visuals are clearly conveying a 3D situation, nothing isometric, top down or otherwise 2D.
>>2832401
But what games we consider 2d had sprite rotation and scaling as a normal state, not a gimmick?
>>2832724
But pseudo-3d racing games such as Outrun had completely different gameplay mechanics than real 3d racing games, 2d top-down racers are much closer to the latter. I think for the purpose of this thread Outrun would be better considered 2d.
But it's hard not to survive the transition for such type of vidya anyway because aforementioned mechanics are shit and only thing pseudo 3d racing games can rely upon are aesthetics (also maybe story but not that they used this opportunity often).
>>2834801
>I think for the purpose of this thread Outrun would be better considered 2d.
I think you should play it first
>But it's hard not to survive the transition for such type of vidya anyway because aforementioned mechanics are shit and only thing pseudo 3d racing games can rely upon are aesthetics
The "transition" for OutRun was trivial, because the visuals are nearly identical and the physics translate extremely well. OutRun is a linescroller visually, but the computations were entirely 3D based
>Suzuki stated that his "designs were always 3D from the beginning. All the calculations in the system were 3D, even from Hang-On. I calculated the position, scale, and zoom rate in 3D and converted it backwards to 2D. So I was always thinking in 3D."
>>2832017
Scorched earth!
>>2832017
>>2832037
GTA, Duke Nukem, and Wolfenstein are the top 3 examples of games that got BETTER when they went 3D.
Mario Kart, F-Zero, Wizardry, and a bunch of sports games (especially EA's sports titles) are the best examples of games where nothing was lost by the transition.
I'd be tempted to throw Final Fantasy out there on the basis of VII alone, but everything after that has sucked.
Also, Ultima has to be mentioned as an example of a game where everything was different in 3D, yet the quality was just as high.
>>2834840
it's bad form to make opinion look like fact
>>2832017
LEMMINGS!!!
>>2834850
3D or Revolution?
>>2834853
Together. 3d was more interesting, more impressive for the time, but rev. was more accessible, more familiar ... to a fault, it was kind of disappointing that there wasn't any more of the innovations in lemmings 2, but it did "survive" quite allright.
>>2834848
... It would be opinion if someone disagreed, but most of the stuff they said is pretty much a agreed consensus.
Unless you want to claim that original Castle Wolfenstein is better than New Order?
>>2834883
I disagreed
>Unless you want to claim that original Castle Wolfenstein is better than New Order?
The transition was Castle Wolfenstein to Wolfenstein 3D
>>2834879
Lemmings 3D was a prime example of a bad 3D transition. The puzzles in 2D were already difficult enough, and that's with you being able to see the entire setup on the screen, at once. In 3D the level setup was so complicated, you needed to constantly move the camera to form a mental image, then try to solve the mental image. Navigation, and the requirement to form a mental model of just the setup were two reasons that made Lemmings 3D so hellishly difficult, it put the game right out of the accessible puzzle games zone, and as a result it failed.
Revolution was 2D in terms of gameplay, with the twist of the wrapping world. That's why it worked better than 3D. Unfortunately, 3D managed to "kill" the franchise, so Revolution went under the radar for almost everyone.
>>2834812
>computations were entirely 3D based
Sure but heavy usage of sprites gives it unique look distinct from 3d games.
And physics weren't 3d based at all. Some tried it but with awful results, see Crazy Cars 2.
>>2834921
>heavy usage of sprites gives it unique look distinct from 3d games
yeah, right
>>2834945
Yeah these buildings surely are sprites
>>2834953
every single tree in that screenshot is
>>2834894
3d was not that hard. They didn't crank the difficulty that much after doing so with the incremental revisions of the 2d games, which they had to to keep them having sense to their existence (#2 doesn't count as merely a revision). 'Chronicles was already faulted for knocking down the franchise. 3d also had some nice music.
Revolution was too little too late, especially considering how few levels it had. It also looked pretty bad, so much of the same.
>>2834945
holy shit, I still can`t believe some people actually liked Oblivion.
>>2834894
L3d was an apt *example* of a bad jump into 3d because of the low res, which just felt awkward in conjunction with the level of graphical detail and the overall sophistication of the game - and the 800x600 level intro images just added insult to injury.
If it at least used medium-high mode-X, it would have been tolerable.
>>2833736
>I particularly enjoy TD5 and TDU even though they wouldn't figure in my top 10 list of racing games.
Why not?
>>2835052
Gotta agree, both these games are on my top 10 racing list.
>>2834840
GTA was always 3D, dammit
>>2835008
I don't think he said anything about liking or disliking the game.It was pretty poor without lots of mods or the Shivering Isles expansion.
>>2832045
>Mario
Literally the only 3D platformer left and consistently scores 9/10. It made the transition remarkably well, something Sonic has never matched for example. It's so well done it's almost too obvious an answer
>>2835052
Because I like more other titles than those
>>2835490
name them. It's quite rare that people love games of a genre, yet can still name a dozen of other games they enjoy even more
