![1446086331960[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/3SS5TlA.png "1446086331960[1].png")
J-rpgs are UNPLAYABLE now. As a kid, you could be so easily amused, but boring as hell to an adult. It's all just a few menus, stat building. And there's no complexity to the stats or anything so it takes no thought.
>>2765887
These are all the things I find enjoyable about JRPG's. The slow pace, the simple mechanics. If I wanted to play Dark Souls I'd just do it.
Playing FF 12 after getting sick of JRPG is a breath of fresh air. Programming your AI is fun and very helpful
>>2765887
play JRPGs with actual battle systems like Paper Mario or Megaman Battle Network
Remember when you were shocked by the horror movies you watched as a kid? And, when you watch them now, they're not shocking anymore because you can see through all the gimmicks and cliches, and they all look fake to you now? The same principle applies to video games.
>>2765896
It's a testament to how bad the games are when a few simple commands can have the game run on auto-pilot for almost all the situations.
>>2765927
Actually, THOSE ones are for children...
>>2765896
>Program party
>go take a dump while they level up FOR you
YEah, OK...
IEvberyone always rants about how FFXII is some kind of masterpiece, but the plot is shit, the art direction is boring and generic, the music is forgettable, the characters are mostly pointless and there is no actual gameplay to the fucking thing.
And all the in-menu shit between the game playing itself, or you actually sitting there and watching battles is NOT gameplay, sorry.
At least FFI-X all make you give commands to every party member and take part in what's happening.
>>2766071
>Evberyone always rants about how FFXII is some kind of masterpiece
No they don't, we all bitch about how the game plays itself for you. There might be some contrarian hipsters that think otherwise, but they are far outnumbered.
>>2765887
Bait thread.
Anyway, JRPGs appeal to a certain kind of person. You're not that kind of person, or aren't anymore.
I personally can't fucking stand soccer games, but it's one of the best selling genres on the planet. So they're OBVIOUSLY playable to someone.
JRPGs may be boring to you, but some people like the sense of adventure and classic RPG elements.
Personally, I prefer shorter games with more replay value these days. So JRPGs are out by design. They're generally very long and replay value involves a lot of doing the same things again. So it's not my cup of tea in general. I still dabble in certain odd titles and some classics though. Because they genuinely offer something that brainless action games or dull and generic WRPGs just don't.
Also, I like how you act like an ass, but then don't offer any real counter points in your OP. Like, if JRPGs are SO "unplayable", then what DO you play?
If you want people to take you seriously, then you really should think to include genuine arguments, and not just act like an asshole.
Of course, I suspect you're actually not acting. But whatever...
>>2766075
Where the fuck have you been for the past decade or so?
FFXII gets it's dicked daily on most gaming forums I've been to. Even /v/ loves that shit for some unholy reason.
>>2766084
>Dick sucked
Fucking keyboard...
>>2765887
Actually as an adult they are perfect. I'm btw voat, /vr/, and messing around on a few other sites. I put the controller down. Do whatever the hell I want and watch a cut scene from time to time. Sometimes I even just change the source input on my tv and watch television. Life is pretty groovy anon.
>>2766087
You're an alright guy.
>>2765887
W-rpgs are UNPLAYABLE now. As a kid, you could be so easily amused, but boring as hell to an adult. It's all just a few menus, stat building. And there's no complexity to the stats or anything so it takes no thought.
Platformers are UNPLAYABLE now. As a kid, you could be so easily amused, but boring as hell to an adult. It's all just a few platforms, and jumping. And there's no complexity to the jumping or anything so it takes no thought.
RTS's are UNPLAYABLE now. As a kid, you could be so easily amused, but boring as hell to an adult. It's all just a few units, and some building. And there's no complexity to the building or anything so it takes no thought.
Seriously, you can say this about any genre. Lame thread OP.
>>2766075
come on... do you really miss pressing "fight" five million times? because that's all the gambits really take care of. you can really get into the metagame of setting up complicated gambit chains, or you can just autopilot the basic shit and do everything else manually.
personally, I think the setting, story, and lore are all fascinating. that's why I love it so much. it felt like a real, lived in world. I have been playing games too long to put up with a billion repetitive menu commands, anyway.
>>2766110
>W-rpgs are UNPLAYABLE now.
The really old ones are yeah. Newer ones aren't very good either.
>Platformers are UNPLAYABLE now.
Still challenging and fun now.
>RTS's are UNPLAYABLE now.
Starcraft is still one of the best ever.
>Seriously, you can say this about any genre. Lame thread OP.
JRPGS are really shallow, and consist of just hitting a few menus over and over again. Everything is an abstraction, because of limitations. Later games have less abstrations. Meaning these really simple games are unplayable to anyone over 5.
>>2766087
>I'm btw voat, /vr/
what the fuck does that even mean?
It's like I put my phrase like this: wtf ds t evn mn?
goddamn lazy teenagers on the internet
>>2766110
I'll explain, /vr/ can't dick wave about beating a jrpg, so therefore they hate it.
>>2766116
Stop playing on Wait mode, casual.
Btw, you are contradicting yourself.
You either do everything manually or you "watch tjhe game play itself". You can't have both. Decide.
You problably didn't play it long enough, but I thought enough time had passed so we the FFXII is bad meme was over. We all know it is miles away many FFs. The one you really watch playing is that ridiculous FFXIII and there's no denying it.
>>2766118
And yet you didn't refute one of my arguments. Again, you can say this about any genre.
for someone who hate jayperguers you guys sure love talking about them.
>>2765887
I'm an adult and they're among my favorite types of games despite never having played them as a kid, so you're wrong.
>>2766130
>Again, you can say this about any genre.
You can but you're wrong. Platformers are platformers. There's not much to improve in the genre.
j-rpgs were so god damn simplified and abstract. Just some menus and a few numbers.
>>2766134
>o.O
>I'm in my 30's
Sure.
>>2766140
Enjoy my final reply troll. I won't provide you with the satisfaction of further conversation. Go ahead and have your autism blowout. Some of us actually spend time on the internet as part of our profession. I'd clearly never "o.O" in a conversation off of 4chan or with a person I'm working with. You are free to believe whatever you like. I have one question though. Food service or county work digging ditches/something similar?
>>2766149
Wow, how mature of you.
Anyone who knows shit about games should know FF is a weak series. There are more tactical games (srpgs in general), more complex or demanding games (saga smt). The game's strength was in it's art
ff6 is one of the most beautiful snes games
ff7 one of the most beautiful ps1 games
Final Fantasy 12 is my favorite non-vr Final Fantasy and probably my third favorite overall.
>>2766129
>You either do everything manually or you "watch tjhe game play itself". You can't have both. Decide.
Wrong, confirmed for knowing jack shit about FFXII. Opinions discarded.
>>2766063
Why?
Because no edgy and deep emoshunal storyline?
or because "mature and dark" art work?
Dumbass.
>>2766191
rude m8
>>2766191
How about because there is literally no challenge. You control like 2 characters maybe 3. No stratigies other then like 2 options. It's literally drawn like children's books to appeal to children. Do I need to go on?
the last thing i want from a game as an adult is 'challenge'. i'm looking for rote gameplay, nice character and setting design, some decent cutscenes. been playing dragons quest viii lately, it satisfies.
>>2766257
simpleton
There are some JRPGs where you can win by just selecting "attack" every turn. Dungeon crawl-style ones still manage to be engaging.
>>2766297
suck my dick
>>2766257
I recommend you watch youtube videos of other people playing than. That way you don't have to worry about troublesome things like challenge.
>>2766317
I won't for the same reason the women in your life won't. Absolutely disgusting.
>>2766347
your missing out ;)
>>2766350
I doubt that.
>>2766353
will you suck it or not? ;)
God this board is shit.
REPORT TROLL THREADS
HIDE TROLL TREADS
IGNORE TROLL THREADS
>>2766150
he's a 30 something on 4chan complaining about "censorship by leftists" did you think he would be mature
>>2766395
there was a time when I thought that once people hit a certain age, they'd suddenly stop being retarded. now I know I was wrong.
It's an easy genre to shit at but as I've grown older I've also began seeing the merits of it. It purposely drags you down into a special kind of tempo that makes you focus on the narrative and what your characters are doing even if isn't very intensive. I'd love to create something myself and experiment with that kind of interaction
>>2766235
Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.
Games that "ruined" JRPGs for me:
"Story" RPG: Star Ocean - Second Story
"Grindy" RPG: Disgaea
After playing those, there was really no need to ever play another JRPG. I still played them for a few years after that, but in hindsight I feel like I really could have stopped after those without missing out on anything significant in the genre.
I really enjoyed FF12 as well, though that was really its own style of game.
>>2766407
CS Lewis was that dude.
the chronicles of narnia are still the best childrens books Ive read tbh.
>>2766129
>The one you really watch playing is that ridiculous FFXIII and there's no denying it.
The FF that constantly kicks your ass if you aren't actively paradigm shifting? FF13 is one of the hardest FF games out there because it specifically addressed complaints that you can cruise through a great deal of the series by pressing fight.
But you wouldn't know that because you never got far enough to understand how the game is all about active paradigms, let me guess, chapter 3?
>>2766257
>the last thing i want from a game as an adult is 'challenge'
>been playing dragons quest viii lately, it satisfies
Ooh, shit, you're not going to like the game after Dhoulmagus, then.
>>2766407
Well put, anon.
>>2766407
This may be a troll thread, and filled with the worst anon has to offer, but at least something awesome came out of it. Give this man a medal.
Sucks to be you, I'm going to play Trails in the Sky SC in about 3 hours and I'll enjoy it.
I really enjoy 'em for their slower pace and relaxing, immersive atmospheres. It's just a feeling I don't get from those overly realistic WRPG's.
I'm looking forward to playing that new Dragon Quest with the retro mode on.
>>2766471
isn't he met somewhat early? you fight, he flees, posssibly running on water, later he returns in more powerful form? i think i'm near the end of the game and faced him initially months ago
i dont think ive died in the game, seems easy and pleasant even by rpg standards
>>2766572
is that an earlier dq, characters look similar, what number is it
>>2766579
It's not DQ, it is this: http://www.romhacking.net/translations/2339/
>>2765887
>Valkyrie Profile is unplayable
Yeah... this is low tier bait.
I always felt like the main fun of a JRPG comes from A: building your characters and B: boss fights, while regular fights are just fodder for character growth (and a ground for testing them out). B either requires A to be fairly extensive in order to be fun or it needs complex mechanics that stand on their own. FFIV is my favorite example of a JRPG that has none of these, on top of a painfully dated story, and is consequently a horrible chore to replay today.
jrpg's are cozy
>wah i'm deep intellectual consumer i don't like skinner box
Mhm
>>2765887
I agree. The amount of time spent on grinding sucks the fun out of the game.
But if you want a grinding game with "complexity to the stats" try Tactics Ogre. It's the game that defined the TRPG and it is still arguably the best in the genre.
You just can't go back though man. TFW.
>>2765887
>It's all just a few menus, stat building
Yes, and it's surprisingly fun when they managed to balance it right with a bit of immersion.
>>2768073
Grinding is easy as fuck in TO... at least the PS1 version
>Get 2 clerics, unequip weapons and give thm the best armor
>Get them to fight each other in auto-battle over night
>swap them to witches or something that can use Incubus/Paralyze.
>go into a training battle with the dudes you want to level and your grossly overleveled clerics.
>sleep/paralyze themselves and get your party members to beat on them for 1 level per hit
>catch up to the level curve safely and easily
>>2766641
wow i've been trying to find the right word for the way they make me feel. it's like a combination of nostalgia and feeling safe while being under a warm blanket on a snowy day. cozy is perfect.
>>2766257
you sound like some boring suburban dad who gave up on life a long time ago and now just lives his life like a robot while watching his wife get fatter and fatter
>>2768116
That's some very specifically detailed fantasy you got there anon. Want to talk about what that makes you feel and about your dad?
Really only applies to Final Fantasy which is a shit tier 'baby's first' franchise in general.
>>2768130
Practically every JRPG is a grindfest especially including almost everything made in Japan.
Are you shitting me? Grinding is the entire backbone of JRPGs in general. Then like, yay we saved the world, just us rag-tag kids.
The few games of the whole genre that are actually any good are rare as diamonds.
>>2768172
>every JRPG is a grindfest
>Grinding is the entire backbone of JRPGs in general
Sorry, but you're just shit at video games, even at such simple ones as JRPGs.
>>2768172
>Practically every JRPG
>including almost everything made in Japan.
>JRPGs
>not made in Japan
Both your videogame and shitposting skills need polish.
This whole board turned to shit. Not because of the OP, but because of every one else in the thread. Everyone is calling each other names and being rude as fuck. This board once was a haven for people who couldn't stand /v/'s childishness, but now every thread is filled with hostile posters, just like over there. It's really depressing.
That said, OP, I feel you. When I was a kid I loved JRPGs, but today I just can't stand playing them. They are just way too long, and because of work and social life and family I really have no time to play for long to get invested in the games story, atmosphere etc. I still love the concept of those games as well as the style most of those games have. I just can't enjoy playing them anymore.
I'm sure of I were NEET and single I could enjoy them again. But too bad, I have a life.
>>2768217
People countering the OP is why this board still has promise. "This whole genre is unplayable" type threads are bottom tier funposting. It is exactly the type of thread that /v/ gets.
>>2768280
No. In the old /vr/, this thread would have been largely ignored, as to discourage these type of horrid threads.
People, of course, would respond to a thread if someone actually had some well thought out criticisms and meaningful musings about the genre.
>>2766597
I always felt like FF4 had some of the tightest boss fights in the series, primarily because character customization is so limited.
>>2765887
This is why I don't play 16bit JRPGs. They are all repetitive as fuck wrt mechanics.
You need to go PS1 and up to have fun with JRPGs.
>>2766407
he's right though. paper mario is a super easy rpg. not that i don't thoroughly enjoy the first two games, but for some people those easy games aren't fun
>>2768172
This. Random battles are fun in the beginning but when there are encounters every 5 steps or so, they become a chore. Yeah, there are more complicated JRPGs, but those just have bigger menu trees. They give the illusion of sophistication through obfuscation. Essentially, the game play is the same.
>>2766136
>Platformers are platformers. There's not much to improve in the genre.
Platformers can be improved by adding complexity, just like traditional shmups were improved into danmaku shmups. There are very few truly difficult platformers.
>>2770363
>traditional shmups were improved into danmaku shmups.
kek sure thing you fucking weeb
>>2770362
I think that is a radically reductionist stance to take there.
>>2770403
Even "complex" JRPGs boil down to finding the best attack and spamming it. Occasionally the best attack will change as new items and abilities unlock, or some gimmick fight requires a different best attack. Watch some JRPG speedruns to see how repetitive they are when played optimally.
>>2770363
>There are very few truly difficult platformers.
All of the Adventure Island games are very simple, but still very challenging.
I don't think complexity adds to the difficulty, I also don't think overcharged game design automatically means something is improved.
This board's descent into hell is unstoppable, isn't it?
>>2770405
That's a one-dimensional kind of challenge (can you hit the tight timing window?). Modern shmups test several abilities as once. You have memorization heavy timing challenges, improvization against random patterns, and longer term resource management and planning. I don't know enough about platformers to say if there are any that reach this level of complexity, but I don't see why there shouldn't be.
>>2770404
>Occasionally the best attack will change as new items and abilities unlock, or some gimmick fight requires a different best attack.
Sounds several orders of magnitude more complex than combat in non-Japanese RPGs,
>>2770451
Try playing Baldur's Gate with the Sword Coast Stratagems mod. Or even without the mod.
>>2770462
No thank you. It's not up to my standards anymore to play games with save any time you want feature - good sign that devs didn't know by themselves how it's supposed to be played. The fact that you suggest to use user modification only confirms it.
>>2770404
>Even "complex" JRPGs boil down to finding the best attack and spamming it.
Like any non puzzle game?
What are you even trying to argue, every combat based game boils down to using the best possible attack, JRPGs aren't any different.
Would it hurt you to get out of your ivory tower and realize how idiotic you sound?
Gradius all boils down to alternating Laser and Double depending on the stage, Doom is basically shotgun and plasma gun the game with the occasional BFG, Crash 3 is all about the bazooka once you get it and the occasional gimmick for bosses and so on, then it's fireball spam and DP for fighting games.
>>2770501
Not at all, because in action games you have to aim and time your attacks. In JRPGs you just press A.
>>2770504
How does that even infringe the point that it all boils down to using the best attack?
And for your info there's tons of RPGs where you have to time your attacks, even shitty games like Legend of Dragoon.
Are you legitimately retarded?
>>2770517
Nobody could possibly be dumb enough to miss the distinction between action games and selecting things from a menu. Put more effort into your trolling.
>>2770530
Wait, let me put this straight, having to select options from a menu takes somehow less skills than running around and fire at things since you appear to somehow how meta knowledge of the game structures before you even played them, let alone knowing enemies' movesets and stats of course, I bet you could speedrun games like Wizardry 4 with no problems at all.
I guess you're a master of video or photo editing too since you just need to select things and options from menus then.
>>2770598
Yes, it takes less skill, regardless of whether you read guides/wikis/etc. or not. JRPGs played normally have zero execution difficulty. Watching replays of action games gives you a much smaller advantage than reading about JRPG mechanics. If you read about how to win a JRPG battle then you can win that JRPG battle. There's no test of your ability to think under pressure, there's no test of your ability to execute complex button combos, you don't even have to memorize things unless you're speedrunning. JRPGs are a casual genre.
>>2770613
>There's no test of your ability to think under pressure, there's no test of your ability to execute complex button combos, you don't even have to memorize things unless you're speedrunning. JRPGs are a casual genre.
A lot of shmups have blind spots for bosses or weapon patterns that make levels trivial.
Action games like Tomb Raider, Metal Gear, Doom or Quake can be completed effortlessly by knowing where enemies are and their scripts.
Fighting Games like Mortal Combat or KOF have several AI flaws that can be used to completely neuter any opponent.
Sidescrollers like Biomenace or Xanadu are a joke when you know both enemies and items locations.
Platformers like Kirby or SMW2 let you skip 90% of all levels by floating out of the screen, which means literally pressing right and jumping.
Having meta knowledge about any game makes them casual games, if you truly believe what you just wrote you're only a pompous asshole who hasn't branched out of a few genres in his whole life and thinks he's a big deal.
But please, be my guest and do post your playthrough of Wizardry 4, any Lunatic Dawn game or Romancing SaGa 2, I'm sure you'll never, ever get a game over.
>>2770635
Doom and Quake (on UV/Hard or Nightmare) take execution skill even if you know the AI exploits. And they are best played multiplayer in any case.
Fighting Games are definitely supposed to be played multiplayer.
Most platformers do not have such exploits, and there are plenty of platformers that are difficult enough that casuals will never 1CC them, eg. Ghost 'n' Goblins, Battletoads, Ninja Gaiden, Castlevania 3, Bionic Commando, etc.
Wizardry 4 is legitimately difficult without external knowledge, but it's really a puzzle game not an RPG.
>>2765887
Perhaps there's something to be said about that. FF, after a while, becomes muscle memory. Pleasant repetitiveness.
You are made to understand that, given enough time spent and grind done, you will be victorious.
It's good for building patience.
>>2765887
I disagree
Im playing megami tensei on NES for the first time and I fucking love it
>>2765887
When did /vr turn into/v?
>>2766556
I'm so glad to be back to travelling with Estelle. The first one was my GOTY and this looks like it probably will be too.
>>2765887
Text based games are UNPLAYABLE now. As a kid, you could be so easily immersed, but now you don't care as an adult. It's all just a few menus, maybe some map drawing. And there's almost no complexity to the puzzles or anything so it takes no thought.
>>2771846
>Text based games are UNPLAYABLE now.
>>2771846
pure text adventures aren't even video games desu imo
>>2771846
Text based games are far better now than when they were commercially viable. Most of the Annual IF Competition winners are better than anything Infocom released (and a lot of them are on-topic, because the z-machine is a pre-1999 platform):
http://ifwiki.org/index.php/The_Annual_IF_Competition
>>2770635
But with JRPGs, you don't even need to memorize anything. You can play through them lackadaisically without reading any strategy guide and still be able to beat them. This is the reason why the games I liked most when I was young were RPGs. They're fucking easy. The only reason you need meta knowledge for JRPGs is when you deliberately make game the harder to play by using underleveled and non-optimal characters and setting artificial restrictions.
>>2771921
>to play by using underleveled and non-optimal characters and setting artificial restrictions.
aka not grinding like little retarded faggot.
>>2771956
I hate the term "interactive fiction". It's used by the same people who think games are art. I call them "text adventures", but "interactive fiction" is used in the official name of the competition so I had to use it there.
>>2772001
Exactly.
"Interactive fiction" makes me think "Oh, I'm in a library reading a goosebumps book."
"Text adventures" makes me think "Fuck, I'm slaying some fucking dragons"
>>2771984
Why didn't the developers added level caps then? If the games were meant to be challenging, they would've done so. It's obvious grinding was what they had intended. It's how these games are meant to be played. I remember an old Square poster ad claiming multiple dozens of hours of game play for each of their games. Chrono Trigger in particular had up to "80+" hours of gameplay. This many hours of gameplay can't be achieved without grinding to level 99 for every character and replaying the game at least once.
>>2765972
Maybe only if you have shit taste. My childhood was Thief, Doom, Baldur's Gate, Unreal Tournament, Deus Ex and so on. They're just as impressive as they were when I was a kid.
>>2766110
Nice try. But the problem with the first statement is that western RPGs usually -do- have complexity in their stats. Unlike JRPGs.
>>2765887
I kinda understand OP. Back in the good old days I loved j-rpgs, nowdays they're next to unplayable to me due to how slow-paced the combat/gameplay is. Funny enough I still love the old snes era j-rpgs (because when I emulate them I can play them in turbo mode. That pretty much solves all of my issues).
>>2772024
>Why didn't the developers added level caps then? If the games were meant to be challenging, they would've done so. It's obvious grinding was what they had intended
Why did Konami put the Konami code in their games? If the games were meant to be challenging, they would've done so. It's obvious using the Konami code was what they intended.
>>2772997
>western RPGs usually -do- have complexity in their stats
Nigga you best be joking, FF2 as much as it was a glitched mess of a game already had more stat complexity than the vast majority of WRPG of the era, Stat systems in games like The Last Remnant now make 90% of WRPG shit their pants.
>>2765887
Well of course it's unplayable, it's the worst final fantasy game in your image, right after FF2
>>2773068
Oh it's that guy who tries to shoehorn his pet non-retro RPG into every fucking conversation.
Look, nobody here gives a shit about your 360 game.
>>2773175
You surely do since you can't even understand the point of a simple sentence.
Or maybe you're just grasping at straws to invalidate my main point?
>>2773198
I'm not arguing with you about any of whatever you're sperging out about.
I'm just sick of seeing you talk up your 360 on a board where it's completely irrelevant, but good luck with that other with those other anons that clearly have you by the short hairs.
>>2773224
I'm not even whoever you're talking about and I never owned a 360, the game's a multiplat and it was really just an example for modern games, if you want another one there's plenty of modern titles like Elminage, Unlimited Saga or the new Uncharted Waters games, if you want old games you have a plethora of JRPGs with tons of great stat systems, Dark Law, retro SaGa games and Uncharted Waters again, Tactics Ogre...
You should do something about that paranoia of yours.
>>2768107
I wish nostalgia made me feel that way. It makes me upset I don't have that safety now. Jrpgs are pretty relaxing to me because its' so repetitive and comfortable though.
>>2773278
>Dude. you talk to me like I'm invested in this boring ass conversation about what stats mean. I'm not. Not at all.
So you were just shitposting, good, time to report you then.
>>2772991
>absolute garbage games sans Deus Ex
>muh superior childhood taste
Ayyyylmao
Doom is particularly shitty.
>>2773237
Muh Nigga
Love those old Koei games like Uncharted Waters and Inindo.
>>2772997
>muh wrpg superior states autism
LOVING
EVERY
LAUGH
>>2773237
>a plethora of JRPGs with tons of great stat systems
>Tactics Ogre
Well there goes that argument...
I kid, sort of. Generally I agree with you. Etrian Odyssey has made most old JRPGs unplayable at this point.
>>2773347
He does have a point though. WRPGs are much more heavily stat based than JRPGs.
>>2773523
Does that make them superior in any way? It's just a different stroke for different folks.
>>2773523
They're not really complex though. Put attack on fighters, int on wizards, agi on thieves etc. Straying away from these will only create shitty unoptmized characters.
>>2765887
>J-rpgs are UNPLAYABLE now.
Weird, I could swear I'm playing Dragon Quest 7 and Final Fantasy 6 right now
Meh, must be my imagination
Why isn't anyone addressing these obvious troll post? This is one of many. Our mods are far and lazy faggots.
>>2768217
That is why this board needs the soothing maturity of sixth gen inclusion.
>>2765887
I agree. Nothing can make me dislike Crono Trigger though
>>2773068
>Why did Konami put the Konami code in their games? If the games were meant to be challenging, they would've done so. It's obvious using the Konami code was what they intended.
Doesn't count. Those codes are hidden from the player. You have either get them from a strategy guide or game tip hotline and pay out-of-pocket money. Even with the codes, the gameplay is just made a little easier.
By your logic there's no such thing as easy games. All developers intend for their games to be hard. In order to increase the challenge, you have handicap yourself by chopping off some of your fingers or make yourself retarded.
>think about playing a JRPG
>think, well in that case I might as well just read a book
What are some JRPGs worth playing for their story, guys?
>>2774481
Vagrant Story.
>>2768738
That's because it DID and it's one of the reasons why retards who complain about it lacking character customization are missing the point.
JRPGs are one of my favorite genres. I'm the type that wants story with my gameplay.
>>2774481
Do ARPGs count? If so, try Tales of Phantasia. It SEEMS like it'll be a cliche'd "good vs evil" plot. But it isn't.
>>2774368
>or make yourself retarded.
Funny to hear this from grindingtard.
Etrian Odyessey has very good turn based combat, in fact, the games almost have no story at all, so story isnt the reason why people play those games.
>>2774368
>Doesn't count.
Oh it does, especially when you consider that no RPG had codes, while a lot of platformers or sidescrollers had those which were readily available even before the internet was widespread, in RPG you can grind to make life easier, in other games you just input a code on the start screen, same thing.
>By your logic there's no such thing as easy games.
On the contrary, but take that as you will.
You know you can spot a pleb when he says that grinding is totally not the most retarded choice because it's "legit" but having input cheat codes isn't, just like that moron who backpedaled saying that Wizardry 4 is a puzzle game.
>>2765887
Septerra Core.
The level design makes it unbearable now but I really loved it as a kid because it was my first JRPG ever (I always wanted to play FF7 but I couldn't because I had no PS; also in retrospect today I have to say that SC is much better than FF7 at least).
>>2775082
>Septerra Core.
>JRPG
Anon...
>>2765887
I disagree. With savestates and other emulator accoutrements they're more playable than ever.
>>2775104
Look, just because it's Western made doesn't mean it's not a JPRG. JRPG is a genre specifying "not a real RPG most of the time" just like ARPG is not a real RPG most of the time, or hack'n'slash in pretty much 99% of the cases.
>>2775082
I played this recently and the super-slow combat ruins the game. The animations take forever, the action meter takes forever, it makes regular enemies a huge pain the ass. And later in the game enemies will make themselves transparent so you have to WAIT until you can attack them again.
>>2775294
>Look, just because it's Western made doesn't mean it's not a JPRG
>JRPG is a genre specifying "not a real RPG most of the time"
>ARPG is not a real RPG most of the time
Stop pulling my leg anon.
>>2775303
RPGs are about choices and consequences (retards from /v/ like to think that this means only "story splitting into X parts, herp derp"), not about imitating Microsoft Excel, old man.
This is not really something that your opinion is relevant on if you disagree, since my opinion is shared by the majority of the Elite Intellectual HQ of the Internet ( RPGCodex) so that makes me automatically right.
>>2775306
>since my opinion is shared by the majority of the Elite Intellectual HQ of the Internet ( RPGCodex ) so that makes me automatically right.
Okay, now I know that you were indeed pulling my leg.
>>2775308
Say that one more time and I will pull your leg again, as Quin-Gon-Chi from Mortal Kombat 4 does.
>>2775309
Come on son, I'm too old for this type of banter.MK is shit anyway, go play a real FG like KOF or GG
>>2775306
>>2775294
Not the guy you're arguing with, but you're fundamentally wrong. JRPGs are just RPGs that were made by Japanese companies. They started out based on Western games and table top RPGs (FFI is basically D&D).
As time went by they developed their own specifics that make them distinct from western RPGs, but an RPG made in America or Europe even if it was in a style similar to JRPGs would still be a western RPG.
ARPGs are simply another genre which is related to RPGs, but different enough that they don't really fit under the same category. Similar to Beat 'em Ups and Fighters, coming from similar roots, even having some degree of crossover with characters. But they're also fundamentally different genres.
>>2774481
FFVI and Earthbound come to mind.
>>2774481
>What are some JRPGs worth playing for their story, guys?
I enjoy RPGs, but I don't think any exist. Certainly no RPG comes anywhere close to even a middling book. If you don't like them for the combat and exploration, RPGs are really a pretty terrible genre. You get minuscule bits of story and character development that only account for maybe 5% of the game.
If you do like the gameplay in though, then the bits of story you get as you adventure along can be a nice addition.
>>2775306
Those guys have been discussing "What is an RPG" for the last 10 or so years
>>2775354
>Certainly no RPG comes anywhere close to even a middling book.
Planescape: Torment
>>2774481
Mana Khemia and Bravely Default.
>>2775374
Unless you're only reading D&D novels, Planescape Torment's story is really not that good. The simple fact is that games are a bad medium for telling a story.
>>2775391
It's as good as a "middling book". It's better than most D&D novels.
>>2775392
How old were you when you played it? Did you replay it? Are you a big reader?
I guess opinions are bound to vary, but I would not agree at all.
op is a hipster elitest shit that plays only Chekoslovakian RPGs on his Amiga
>>2775405
17 or 18 when i first played it, replayed it twice since then (aged 33 now). I read about 2 or 3 books a month.
>>2775473
Huh, and it really holds up that well for you? I only played it the once and it certainly was good for a video game, but I wouldn't call it a substitute for reading a good book. I didn't enjoy it enough to go back and replay though, so it could just come down to our tastes.
>>2775356
>Those guys have been discussing "What is an RPG" for the last 10 or so years
Yes, that's why our opinion makes your opinions irrelevant. Choices and consequences simply wins every time you'd make a poll nowadays.
>>2775354
This post made me feel physically sick.
>>2775391
Planescape Torment's story is better than most of the popamole fantasy books out there including (probably your favorite) the ASoIaF series.It's obviously not better than masterpieces like Lord of Light but something in the corner of my mind tells me that you didn't have those in mind when you were making your outrageous statement.
>>2775492
>This post made me feel physically sick.
Why?
>Planescape Torment's story is better than most of the popamole fantasy books out there
Maybe its that I don't tend to read much fantasy anyways and haven't read or seen any Game of Thrones anything. It's not a genre that interests me much in general.
I only compared it to D&D books because I had read a few of those as a teenager and PT is part of the D&D world. I put it's story about on par with some of the novels, which I count pretty low compared to most other books.
But also like I say here >>2775484 I only played the game once since I liked it well enough but it didn't blow my mind so much I wanted to replay it. So it could partially just come down to our tastes.
an rpg is a turn based game in which you decide the actions of a group of characters, and both the degree of their progress and the success of their actions has a degree of randomness, like throwing dice.
it doesnt need much story, or a story with branching paths, or asking you for opinions or what you want to do.
>>2775518
>an rpg is a turn based game
Traditionally, but not in all cases or entirely. Several RPGs have action aspects to them but are still part of the genre. Tales of Phantasia for example or Final Fantasy VI with the active time battle system which is not truly turn based.
>decide the actions of a group of characters
Not necessarily. There are single character RPGs.
>both the degree of their progress and the success of their actions has a degree of randomness
They don't all have randomness either.
>it doesnt need much story, or a story with branching paths, or asking you for opinions or what you want to do.
Opinions.
>>2775518
>an rpg is a turn based game
An RPG doesn't have to be turn based, in theory. An RPG doesn't need to have any RNG in it at all. It doesn't need a story but choices and consequences.
>>2766415
Good taste my friend, good taste.
>>2775492
>laughing stock of the internet talks about relevancy
>>2775612
B-but it's a tight knit group of elitists! How could they possibly be wrong about anything, ever?
>>2766071
I haven't disagreed with a post this hard in years, makes me feel alive.
Everything you hate about FF12 is what I love about it. The plot is take it or leave it, i'll give you that, because it's mostly POLITICS, which I'm fine with, but what work is that the characters are very good in this game.
I'm going to take a moment to juxtaposition the cast of FFXII with it's predecessor, FFX just for an example. Personally, I hate FFX. I think it's characters were boring and shallow. here's why. in FFX, Yuna wanted to become the ultimate summoner or whatever, and everyone else in the party was her bodyguards, therefore though there may have been little peeks into their personality, their goals and motivations were all one and the same, accompany Yuna on her journey to Zanarkand.
In FFXII we have an ensemble cast of six different characters, all brought together by fate and each having their own individual motivations & desires. There's no real main character in XII which I love because it's equally about all of them and how they interact in their world.
Art direction boring & Generic? no gameplay? this is where I know you're just reaching for bad things to say. The game takes place in a well thought out world and I enjoyed the gambit system, because I thought of it as another extension of character development, I get to determine how my party acts in battle. I would consider things like the license board and the characters personality what they would do in certain situations, and I set their gambits up accordingly.
For example, if I had Fran & Nalthier in the party, I made sure to set a gambit so that if one of them was getting ganged up on, the other would stop what they're doing and help, because they're buddies like that.
so yeah. I guess my point is... I want to go play FFXII again...
RPG simply means that character has potential of growth and his skill level is more important for overcoming the obstacles than player's.
It's a fundamental difference from other types of video games(unlike that nonsense about presence of choices and consequences) and this definition also fits all RPG subgenres from dungeon crawlers and JRPGs to ARPGs and WRPGs about dialog choices.
>>2775023
>JRPGs are one of my favorite genres.
Just fucking stop
>>2775691
>RPG simply means that character has potential of growth and his skill level is more important for overcoming the obstacles than player's.
Pic related
>>2775691
>>2775543
>>2775518
You're all over thinking this way too much. RPG is simply the name for the genre of games that evolved out of pencil and paper roleplaying games. All an RPG is, is a game that follows in that tradition. But by this point so many games have been made that they have spread into sub-genres.
>>2775692
>people aren't allowed to like genres I don't.
Are you 12 or something?
>>2775720
this
>>2775708
Yes, it's an ARPG.
>>2775735
You're legit retarded, friend.
>>2775738
Sorry but it's you who are retarded and knows nothing about the genre. Like for example there was fuckton of side-scrolling ARPGs on arcades, but your walnut sized brain probably refuses to call them anything besides platformers.
>>2775720
>All an RPG is, is a game that follows in that tradition.
= So a game that follows choices and consequences. That's all what pencil and toilet paper roleplaying games are about. Any one without choices and consequences is just a war game (i.e. like Warhammer), not a roleplaying game.
>>2775612
>>laughing stock of the internet
Let me guess, you're from RPGWatch or RPG.net or whatever that website is called where the admins are having discussions about needing more diversity and trans characters in their roleplaying sessions and banning people for not being enthusiastic enough about it.
RPGCodex is a tiny forum (much tinier website than 4chan or Leddit) yet they are treated extremely seriously disproportionally to their size.
>>2775623
Not elitist, it's just objectively the #1 place on the Internet with the highest average IQ (for places to discuss hobbies on).
>>2775763
No, I'm not your rival at faggotry, but yours top list of CRPGs (whatever it means) was ridiculed even on funnyjunk and 9gag.
Play Shin Megami Tensei 1 and 2 and Chrono Teigger for a decent /vr/ related JRPG experiece
Nocturne proves there are still relevant /v/ related JRPGs as well. Can't think of anything more current that's great tho
>>2775763
I think I remember you from the shortlived W2 or PoE generals in /vg/
>>2775787
>but yours top list of CRPGs (whatever it means) was ridiculed even on funnyjunk and 9gag.
...wow. Just...wow. I am speechless. Some retard makes a 'meh-meh' and posts it on one of those retard sites and somehow that makes it legit 'ridicule' of the Codex to you? Like you're obviously a retard yourself just for browsing those sites, but goddamn, your retardation actually almost made me a bit bothered.
At least now I can rest easily know that people who call the 'dex "faggotry" are 9gagers and /v/ crossies.
>>2775913
You remember me from both. It's me, Drago Fireheart indeed!
>>2775464
the whole point of /vr/ was for us to discuss those sort of weird games we never got to experience.
This thread reads like a fucking subreddit.
>>2765927
r u 10
>>2776002
That silly way of writing is unmistakable
Putting aside all this meaningless debate about what "JRPG" or "RPG" means (hint: it's arbitrary), I think the point OP was trying to make is the classic menu and turn-based combat (ATB is still turn based) is boring, especially considering that many of the games that it are quite simple, like FF6 is a piece of cake, the gameplay is easy and consists of choosing "ultima" over and over. Sufficiently complex and difficult turn+menu based combat can be enjoyable due to how it makes you think, but older games often were just extremely simple and therefore their gameplay is more an obstacle than anything else. The only reason these games are still remembered and rated highly today are for everything BUT their gameplay: their story, their art, their music, etc etc. And for some people the boring, slow, and brainless combat is too prevalent to enjoy even those elements which is something I can agree with. I think saying "unplayable" was a bit of an over-reaction. It's very possible to shut your brain off and spam attacks through infinite random battles. However it's also very reasonable to find that lack of engagement a turn off and to just not play it. There. Different strokes for different folks, etc etc, have a good day.
Note: You may be compelled to make posts, as I've seen here, that games like FF6 had fun and engaging combat systems. In that case, you are just wrong. If an 8 year old can easily cruise through the games ( and the standard turn-and-menu-based-combat game was easily beaten by children) then your combat is not complex and therefore is simple and therefore is boring to any adult with a brain. The first reply to this thread indicated that some people derive enjoyment from boring mechanics and that's fine but for the sake of productive discussion don't pretend that these game mechanics were complex or engaging.
>>2766235
is that you anon?
>>2768172
diamonds aren't rare
>>2776002
Well retarded sites are created for posting retarded shit, so screencaps from AutismCodex are that popular there that you don't even need to visit them to know about it.
>Drago Fireheart
Sounds like a gay furry name, desu
>>2776072
speaking of, there are some JRPGs that retains the similar "boring combat" as you mentioned, but diverts the thought process into the other aspects of the game (such as party customization), like FF5.
>>2776496
>that you don't even need to visit them
Sure thing, 9gagger-/v/ anon. You're the first person who brought it up, ever, on 4chan.
>>2776534
Ever heard about image watermarks?
>9gagger-/v/
You understand that's it actually less embarrassing than being from codex, right?
>>2776541
>>2776542
Man you're super butthurt /v/-9gagger kiddie. You're literally the first person in history I've seen say that the Codex is "embarrassing". The only realistic explanation for this I can see is that you're one of the permanently buttblasted SJWs who can't stand the fact that we're both the most intellectual RPG forum on the entire Internet and the fact that we have free speech and not admins that discuss if there's enough transdiverse characters in their "pen and paper sessions" and ban those who disagree. Even the majority of 4chan would probably side with us over your 9gag/Tumblr cesspool of the Internet (I don't even care where you come from, SJW).
>>2776072
>then your combat is not complex and therefore is simple and therefore is boring to any adult with a brain.
Then don't play games aimed at children (Protip:90% of videogames) and move on with your life?
>but for the sake of productive discussion don't pretend that these game mechanics were complex or engaging.
Mechanics being complex or engaging depend on the level of the player, having convoluted mechanics doesn't equal to having complex mechanics and vice-versa.
Some people think that games like FFT or Daggerfall have complex mechanics, others think they're boring and shallow, it all comes down to how experienced the player is, just like any other game.
Your dickwaving about objectively complex mechanics in games is just a pathetic way of legitimizing your opinions, I know plenty of ten years old kids that are literal monsters at Puyo Puyo and destroy me most of the times, admittedly because I never had a firm grasp of planning combos, and yet those very same kids can't play any NES or SNES MM game as well as they play Puyo Puyo or Zelda and say that it's too complicated even though today's Zelda games are far richer in terms of mechanics.
Same with every RPG, being an "adult with a brain" as you said, means anything unless you've already got tons of experience in a genre, even if you're a master of classic horis like Gradius or R-Type you're inevitably going to stumble during a transition to Danmaku, going from Mario to Umihara Kawase(both children games for the record) is not easy at all, even going from action games to certain RPGs is problematic at times, especially if you play certain games like old SRW or FE because while obscenely simple the mechanics are fucked up and the games can be very ruthless(or unfair for people like you) at times.
>>2776547
Kek, nice goobergate autism. Please tell me in another 3 paragraphs about how super butthurt I am.
>>2776552
And of course I was right. Classic.
>>2776554
Classic, like classic WRPG Dark Souls?
>>2776565
Ok so this is it, 9gagger? This is the "ridicule"? Literally nothing implies it.
>>2776567
Answering question with a question is a sign of aspergers, not surprising desu.
>>2776568
I'm not answering your shitty irrelevant question, I am replying to the picture you posted, autistic 9gagger fedora tipper. Now go back to your containment board please >>>/mlp/, or I will tell your favorite socjus diva that you were acting non-inclusive and triggering by saying the "a-word" on the Internet.
>>2776571
>autistic 9gagger fedora tipper
I'm not the one who created that top list lol.
>>2776565
R E K T
E
K
T
>>2776578
>>2776580
Tell me one thing that's wrong with it you 9gagging turd.
It's ordered from #1 in the top left corner, going left to right (I don't expect you to realize that on your own, I am not a cruel man).
Anyone who'd disagree with the top 5 alone is clearly a pleb with shit taste in RPGs (although I'd change the order slightly).
>>2776582
>fount
It's ok, talking fountains are not supposed to understand human opinions to begin with.
>>2776582
>Why the fuck do you say "desu" after every other sentence?
It's because I love animes and anime RPGs desu.
>>2776582
>To be fair, I've often fount the opinions of RPG Codex to be slightly snooty and jaded.
There's not much you can expect from a circlejerk of close minded nerds with delusions of grandeur.
>>2776581
>Anyone who'd disagree with the top 5 alone is clearly a pleb with shit taste in RPGs
Boy, I surely do love leveling in games with shittiest combat only for the purpose of unlocking dialog options.
>>2776582
baka
>>2776593
So you are pleb and proud, man, you started of as a 9gag loving /v/ crossie SJW and you still keep on getting more subhuman. A gift that keeps on giving, truly.
I don't even want to know what kind of 'RPGs' you like, it's like asking a 3 year old what their favorite anyhting is.
>>2776595
My favorite is classic WRPG Dark Souls.
>>2776591
>close minded nerds
He says, about the most open minded place on the Internet. Just because we don't ban people (or try to kill them) for not supporting transAfrican genderfluid characters and don't complain about too few of them in Torment: Tides of Memera like you do doesn't mean we're close minded.
There's actual transdeviant posters on RPGCodex too, and all other kind of crazies like you that we tolerate, because we're the definition of open minded elites.
>>2776597
Shit taste, but I wouldn't expect anything else from someone who was born in the 2000s.
>>2776598
You need to relax, no SJW niggers are going to rape Chris Avellone.
>>2776602
Not anymore, but they were planning to. That's why he had to leave the Obsidian cvcks.
>>2776598
Look, you can stop false flagging that hard.
This joke has got out of hand, you were funny but now you're getting old.
Nobody with a sane mind gives a shit about which kind of special seekrit club you're from, the internet isn't an authority in any way.
If you're bored and want to shitpost there's /v/ or /b/ for that.
>>2776604
Serious about what, 9gag-san?
>>2776606
>Nobody with a sane mind gives a shit about which kind of special seekrit club you're from, the internet isn't an authority in any way.
But literally the only reason we're talking about it is because someone (probably you) was extremely butthurt at the mention of RPGCodex (in an appropriate tone) and he started claiming all sorts of silly things about it, in his anal devastation.
>>2776612
I'm not even the guy you're arguing with, but I guess that you're seriously one of those lunatics from that place.
Behaving like a tourettic idiot isn't going to help your cause anyway, you're getting the opposite results of what you seem to want and profess.
>>2765887
Agree
I usually give them 2-3 hours until i've seen every mechanic
>>2776616
Sure you aren't.
>>2776637
I'd tell you to get your prozac but I doubt it would make any difference at this point since the thread has gone to shit.
If you really think there's only three people on 4chan, I don't know what to tell you, you're only making a fool of yourself.
>>2776646
Yes, of course there's suddenly 10 people posting in a thread on /vr/ , coincidentally just when someone who's butthurt about RPGCodex appears in the thread which was completely dead before that.
>>2767487
You haven't seen the 12 fags then.
They're worse than 5,6 and 9 fags about their game, and pretty much go full on tumblr if you dont like it.
>>2776650
Actually I think that's attributable to the inevitable attention it's attracting from being a complete and utter derailed shitshow.
People are throwing in their 2 cents and getting their X-tra Large popcorn buckets.
>>2776650
In fact I came here to see why this thread suddenly came up from the bottom pages.
You're just blinded by your own spite because someone offended your precious website, get over it and grow a pair, I already told you that I don't give a damn about where you come from.
>>2776650
People like when someone publicly embarrasses themself.
>>2776658
Might be due to misplaced loyalty vis-a-vis Matsuno.
I don't know who Squeenix thought they were fooling when he resigned due to "health reasons"
>>2776669
>>2776672
>using something you can easily edit out in MSPaint as evidence
I rest my case again, victorious.
>>2776669
Are you retarded? I posted in this thread since it was made, why the fuck should you get new IPs if I was following this thread from the very beginning?
Are you that sociopathic?
>>2776674
No, I am Drago.
>>2776680
>announcing your reports
Heh.
>>2775742
That's because they weren't action RPGs. Your definition is idiotic.
>>2776072
I generally agree with you. Turn based combat can be extremely challenging and fun if the options you have at your disposal are complex enough. Not quite RPGs, but roguelikes are a great example of that in the extreme. Dungeon crawlers also tend to lean on the more on that side as well.
JRPGs have an interesting history though. They began as Japanese versions of WRGPs and tabletop games. Final Fantasy specifically is very heavily based on Dungeons and Dragons.
Final Fantasys II and III, but II in particular gives the played a lot of control over the growth of their party and access to a large number of spells to give many options on how to approach it. Neither was anywhere near as popular as the first Final Fantasy.
Then Final Fantasy IV came out. Which is still part of the RPG genre, but far more streamlined and story based. You have very few options in combat and your ability customize your party and their growth is almost non-existent. Instead of growing your party and combat, the game's main focus is on it's story. As a result Final Fantasy IV was extremely popular and seen as one of the greatest games of all time.
With that, Final Fantasy IV became the template that most other JRPGs would seek to imitate. That's the point where JRPGs really became a distinct genre.
>>2776776
>they weren't action RPGs
And the sky isn't blue.
Also, what definition? this one >>2775691 ? But it actually fits all types of RPG, including the side scrolling ones on arcades and consoles. Is it idiotic because some retard thinks that SotN isn't an ARPG?
>>2776547
>>2775763
>>2775492
Not the guy(s) you're talking to, but I've been on the internet and into RPGs pretty much since both have existed and I don't know that I've ever even heard of RPGCodex. But the phrase " the most intellectual RPG forum on the entire Internet" is laughable.
It's also pretty hilarious that you held up Planescape Torment as an example of great video game storytelling and then used as your "proof" that you think it's better than fantasy genre fiction. I don't know whether you laugh or feel bad for you.
>>2775756
>Any one without choices and consequences is just a war game (i.e. like Warhammer), not a roleplaying game.
What are you talking about? War games are all about choices as well. Games in general by definition are all about choices and consequences. That's what makes them games.
>>2776794
The fact that that definition is so broad that it includes side scrolling arcade action games as RPGs is why it's such a bad description.
I could define a fighting game as any game where you fight opponents and then easily 80% of all games ever made would be fighting games.
Your definition is simply incorrect. Just because two genres share similar game design choices like gaining experience does not automatically make them part of the same genre.
First off, Cadash already doesn't fit your definition because XP growth is not more important than player skill. It also discards a lot of classic WPRGs like Ultima and Wizardy where player skill is FAR more important than grinding for levels.
You're also discounting that the "roleplaying" part of RPGs, which is an important aspect of the genre. Where in you explore a world with your character or characters, talking to NPCs and playing through an adventure similar to the tabletop RPGs the genre grew out of.
I'm sorry, but that definition is simply wrong in many ways and too broad in others. It's essentially worthless.
>>2776796
>I don't know that I've ever even heard of RPGCodex.
Yes, because it's only for Elite intellectuals. It's not laughable really, I mean sure we do use it as a joke but ultimately and objectively it is a fact. There is no better place on the internet to discuss RPGs than that, or anything else actually. However, do not mistake this for advertising - I definitely don't want any more 4channers there. You guys who register there are very low quality posters 90% of the time.
>It's also pretty hilarious that you held up Planescape Torment as an example of great video game storytelling and then used as your "proof" that you think it's better than fantasy genre fiction. I don't know whether you laugh or feel bad for you.
In other words:
>it's hilarious because I find it hilarious
name a better RPG video game storytelling than PST, come on.
It just shits on 90% of high fantasy fiction books out there (it's better than the average).
Also, not that KotOR 2 is particularly great, but it's storytelling is better than any other Star Wars universe (more like franchise) story ever told, including the original trilogy of movies. Mostly just because there's so little to compete with in this case.
>>2770462
SCS boils down to spellcasters doing 95% of the work, foreknowledge over on the spot improvisation, and AI abuse. It's not the shining example you think it is.
>>2776805
>I could define a fighting game as any game where you fight opponents and then easily 80% of all games ever made would be fighting games.
Do you even know what fighting games are?
They're one of the few actually strict and easily classifiable games out there.
>just because two genres share similar game design choices like gaining experience does not automatically make them part of the same genre.
It usually does when those are key features of a genre.
>like Ultima and Wizardy where player skill is FAR more important than grinding for levels.
Wot?
Wizardry was 50% about getting levels 40 about getting gear and 10% strategy.
You can't beat Werdna without Tiltowait or good equipment, your abilites are bound to levels so of course you need to get to a level high enough to unlock those spells.
>Where in you explore a world with your character or characters, talking to NPCs and playing through an adventure similar to the tabletop RPGs the genre grew out of.
Completely unnecessary, the classic Wizardry trilogy had barely more than 10 NPCs which were really proxies for unlocking doors and getting key items, Vagrant Story doesn't have any NPC to speak of just like the vast majority of SRPGs didn't either.
>>2776808
>There is no better place on the internet to discuss RPGs than that, or anything else actually.
That's exactly how I feel about the tiny community website I've been a part of for years as well. The difference is that I don't suffer under the delusion that anyone outside of our group cares.
>name a better RPG video game storytelling than PST, come on.
I agree with the other guy. PT has a good story for a video game, but video games are an inherently poor medium for storytelling.
I don't think it comes anywhere near a lot of novels. Is it better than most fantasy genre fiction? Probably, but that's really not a very high bar to set. That's why it was funny.
>>2776821
>They're one of the few actually strict and easily classifiable games out there.
Exactly, which is why redefining them super broadly like that definiton does with RPGs would be idiotic.
