Whatever happened to the shmup general? Seems like it's been at least two months since I saw one.
I'm playing three games right now: Gradius (X68k port by Sharp), Final Crisis, and Zanac AI. First two are great, but the last one's hitbox programming must be screwy; it seems the shield weapon has too small a hitbox compared to how it appears on-screen, which has lead me into cheap deaths time and time again. I'm considering switching to Zanac EX/FDS, but I find that version lass manipulable and AI still has its moments.
Star Force is fun, too, from what I just played.
Been playing Air Zonk lately. Absolutely outstanding game with a 15 minute long final level.
Coryoon was made by the same people and it just as fun.
Ikaruga is utter gape.
Why do I still suck at Dodonpachi? I've been playing it forever.
I've been playing Eliminate Down a lot lately. It's really fun, and that soundtrack just kicks ass.
>>2741859
Funny you say that because playing that last night for the first time is what made me think about making this thread.
Does anyone have recommendations for some good vertical games? I have Ikaruga, Karous, and Gunbird 2 currently.
>>2741892
You ever play Grind Stormer? It does some things that were really ahead of its time in 93, it's pretty neat to see which chunks of that game went on to influence games from studios formed by ex Toaplan devs.
>>2741892
Image Fight and War of Aero. Rare instances of verticals having level design!
I softmodded my Saturn memory card discovered Batltle Garegga which i consider a gift of god but I'm always getting ass handed to me same with Darius Gaiden, Gunbird and Rayforce/Galatic Attack. Also how i do play Terra Divers im confused by it
>>2741852
>gape
>The highest form of love, especially brotherly love, charity; the love of God for man and of man for God.
>>2741730
I've been going crazy the last month or two buying shmups. I got G-Darius last weekend and have been enjoying that.
Started playing Thuder Force 4 (well, lightning force for the framerate). It took a few game overs but I've finally made it to the final stage. I'm yet to beat it, but I think this might be one of my favourite shmups, right next to R-type Delta and Gradius Gaiden.
>>2742201
I think you meant to say horizontal. I get what you mean though, Music is top tier, its challenging and very fast paced, the weapons are all great. I love in the last levelwhen a bunch of allied ships appear and help you out, then equip you to look like the ship in the intro sequence.That shit was fucking cool.
I think it earns a place in my triforce of perfect hori shooters: Gradius Gaiden, R-Type Delta, Thunder Force 4.
>>2742241
I confuse them still to this day!
and I haven't beaten it i made it as far as stage 7....Its such a amazing game.
I cleared Crimzon Clover Boost for the first time.
Still fucked up the scoring, though...
>>2741730
Have you looked in /vg/, ya know, where the general threads are?
Just 1cced Satazius on Insane finally. Yesterday I almost 1LCed it but totally lost my nerves on the endboss and still managed to lose all my lives to it.
>>2742578
We've had shmup generals on /vr/ for a long time because the subject matter is way too niche for it to work on /vg/. The amount of posts in these are so slow that a single thread can last upwards to 40+ days sometimes.
>>2741940
>War of Aero
Was this also made by Irem? I can't find much info about it but it says some chinese company published it.
>>2741940
>Rare instances of verticals having level design!
kill yourself retard
>>2742760
He is right though. The lack of environmental hazards in verties is a bit embarrasing to say the least.
>>2742762
Environmental hazards aren't the only thing that make up level design.
>>2742772
No, but it's a very important aspect of it
>>2742806
>like a minute of staying still and shooting near the end of stage 1
Some may say it's just one shitty example but it captures just how lazy and full of padding the "level design" in horizontal scrollers was
>>2742806
It depends on the game. You may as well claim Streets of Rage 2 has no level design as well because more than half the game has hardly any environmental hazards.
>>2742815
Still better than vertie design philosophy
>hurr let's just spam the whole screen with bullets
>the player has bombs so it's all still balanced
>>2742823
I was talking about STGs of course... Of course not every genre needs this, but for STGs it's very important imo
>>2742824
How about you try killing the enemies before they fill the screen with bullets next time. Or do you not like the fact that the games don't let you take frequent naps like horizontal scrollers do?
>>2742806
It's not important for games which never supposed to have them. And saying that those games have no level design because of it is really stupid.
>>2742698
>Just 1cced Satazius on Insane finally. Yesterday I almost 1LCed it but totally lost my nerves on the endboss and still managed to lose all my lives to it.
It's a fucking great game isn't it? I'm in the same boat btw keep choking the 1lc to the stage 5 boss rush which is a shit ton harder than the games final boss. Strategy for final boss is all aggression first form = point blank the top and bottom blue pods with laser and missiles it kills the first form before it does anything, 2nd form point blank centre core then move back and up and down to avoid those homing things leaving charge bomb to remove 3rd form without doing anything and then the final form which is basically just up and down. My only gripe against this awesome game is not having online leaderboards on steam.
>>2742843
The game is definitely one of my favorite shmups. But I find the weapons are kinda unbalanced. The blue shot which goes up- and down-wards and seeks enemies is basically a must-have, since it's just too effective. The rocket shot which shoots multiple rockets forward is also pretty OP since it does a shitton of damage and still almost covers the whole screen when upgraded. And the special shot from R-Type is also OP since you just can kill almost every enemy in one shot with it. Add to this that you get a bunch of weapon only later on without being able to upgrade them earlier and you always only end up with one and the same weapons.
But yea, the final boss is not that hard once you have the patterns down. I find the hardest enemy in the game is the 4th boss of stage 5. The one which shoots rockets from above and below and the same time shoots lasers from the front. It's alwys a pain to dodge the rockets especially since they can kill you with one hit even if you have the shield. I find the best tactic against him is to use the rocket shot and trying to destroy the enemy's rockets with it, but it's quite difficult.
>>2742870
Also, the Laser is also a must-have for later levels.
>>2742829
Some people enjoy when the devs actually make an attempt at level design before assuming players are satisfied just sliding a hitbox around a screen while dodging teh epic bullet spirals of doom.
>>2742870
>I find the best tactic against him is to use the rocket shot and trying to destroy the enemy's rockets with it, but it's quite difficult.
Agreed, i've found the best method is to use the missile/rockets and start at the top of the screen this way it destroys a bunch off screen before they come down, it's still a bitch though. Level 2 onwards i use laser always and homing shot+ missiles for the secondary.
>>2742904
Do you mean the homing shot from Thunder Force? The blue ball laser? I also liked to use this instead of the missiles, since I thought it could be quite effective against boss enemies, since you always can directly aim at the core of the boss, but I find even there the missiles are just better.
For stages (not boss fights) I find the enemy seeking laser which shoots up and downwards is the best. It's pretty effective against small enemies from front and behind, and even covers everything above and below you.
>>2742901
You could just play a bullet hell centered around bullet cancels if you don't want to dodge bullets, dude.
>>2742901
mechanically you're always sliding around a hitbox to avoid other hitboxes.
the sequence and patterns of teh epic spirals of doom is essentially the level design, i mean to really simplify things they're the equivalent of the hori corridors but they look like bullets rather than rocks or metal walls
i think part of the problem people have is that a hail of bullets sometimes has less character -and might seem lower effort- than the nicely made environment graphics of hori shooters
http://puu<.>sh/jG88A/541dcabaff.webm
I should really strive towards that 2-ALL, but every time I start playing, I get disencouraged by single death in first loop and lay off the game for a while.
Maybe I should try to clear 2nd loop first from savestate in one go?
>>2742901
Play better games. You can abstract anything into "move a defined zone that triggers "lose game" state if intersected by another zone defined as harmful". It's not about bullets, it's not about how many walls there are. What matters is that the sort of challenges you throw at player are fun and distinct.
I don't personally like horis. Maybe it's because I really don't like Gradius or R-Type...Personally DOJ 2-5 is my favourite shmup stage of all time.
>>2743114
Starting from the 2nd loop is the best idea, until you can get it down semi-consistently. Only then should you start going for full runs.
>that webm
It's funny because I made a video of a 1 miss Hibachi just now. If that's you playing in that webm, I sure hope you're never planning on following that route.
>>2742908
No i meant the enemy seeking laser that you mention in the latter, that and straight missiles is all i use.
>>2743141
I suppose so. 1st loop is pretty boring, anyway. Otherwise I am pretty comfortable with most of game's challenges. Only some things need bit of practice like:
> 2-5 boss forms before Hibachi
> Fucking 2-4 cartridges
Is there any tricks to the cartridges?
Won't arse with scoring.
But yeah, both webms are mine.
>>2743163
There aren't any tricks to the cartridges. They spawn at random places and move towards random directions. Memorize the spawn points of the enemies and get used to the amount of damage that the cartridges take before they explode.
>Won't arse with scoring.
But scoring is the fun part! Seriously though, if you're bored of going through the 1st loop, then trying to full-chain a couple stages will definitely make it more interesting for you.
>>2743147
Yea, that's also all I use. It's sad cause they make all the other weapons kinda redundant.
>>2743346
Well i mean very few multi weapon shooters have much balance tbh just look at the Gradiuses.
>>2743346
I guess it's worth mentioning btw that the only 1lc on youtube actually uses the spread shot, seems nice in stages but the bosses take longer.
>>2741730
Too niche of a genre.
That, or people who actually post in the generals are too busy trying to improve.
>>2743371
I don't think Gradius is the best example. I've only played 1, 3 and Gaiden though (and only as Vic Viper and Lord British in Gaiden). Both the double shot and laser are effective at different parts of the game and are nicely balanced if you use them accordingly.
However with Lord British, once you've gotten the level 2 disruptor beam, there isn't much reason to go back to the wave.
R-type might be a better example, since only the red power-up utilizes your bits. It would be cool if the bits improved your blue and yellow power ups.
>>2743610 Grind Stormer is great. I've only played a little bit but I enjoyed the power ups and being able to change how the side cannons are aimed. I think Sol-Deace had a similar feature with being able to aim the "arms" of the ship.
Easiest shmups to 1CC?
>>2743905
Raiga - Strato Fighter was pretty easy for me, but still cool game with harder second loop.
>>2743905
2hou
>>2743905
KAMUI on normal mode as long as you practice the final boss.
>>2742017
thats agape
>>2742919
I can't empathize with a cloud of dots but a cave wall represents a place, and if you're in a place then the game has a world. That's what people mean by level design, ludofags.
>>2744142
I also prefer environmental hazards from time to time, but if you are sitting in a space ship, then it somehow makes sense that you are not always flying through caves.
I think both styles are great but verties seem a bit lazy sometimes. They often have really detailed background graphics therefor though.
>>2743905
thunder force 3
>>2744142
You can make stages that have a presence to them without any environmental hazards. Layer Section feels more like a believable journey than almost all horizontal scrollers I've played, yet it has almost no environmental hazards to speak of. It has more to do with the art direction and how the enemies move in the world than a bunch of big floating hitboxes.
>>2744349
Layer Section crossed my mind earlier. Little things like how the enemies move in the background, the seamless level transitions and the way you go from space to the atmosphere come together to show a vertical shooter can also place you in a world. I think it takes greater care by the developers not to ignore these details in a vertical shooter than in a horizontal one. It also helps when the bullets are sparse enough they can plausibly be some kind of energy weapon and not just shmup bullet curtains.
>>2744739
It's hard to name arcade releases that DON'T have detailed backgrounds of real places with enemies coming out of the environments, flying on a lower plane or just moving on the ground. CAVE games have that, Raizing games have that, Psikyo games have that, Toaplan games have that, Takumi games have that, It's only a problem in SOME indie games like Touhou and ones it inspired. Even then there's plenty of indie bullet hell games with lovingly crafted environments like Jamestown, Crimzon Clover and the Alltynex games.
>>2745141
Obviously we're not talking about the handful of 90s arcade games you like to jerk your dick to. Every fucking thread you assholes act like Takumi and Raizing are the only shmups. Also I don't think you understand what's being discussed here or you wouldn't cite CAVE games, the complete antithesis of having a gameworld.
>>2745189
one day we will find a method to power all households in the world with the butthurt Cave elicits from fucks like you
>>2745189
>CAVE games
>complete anthithesis of having a gameworld
lmao are you for real? Guwange even had walls you couldn't move through
>>2745196
Yeah Guwange was CAVE doing it right. Even the bullets were obviously supposed to represent arrows or TNT barrels and so on.
>>2745189
So what are we talking about, then? No budget, low effort indie games that nobody plays?
Can we at least agree Touhou was a mistake?
>>2745196
There's no space penis shaft with collidable walls, so autismo's suspension of disbelief is completely ruined.
Does anyone here dislike RayStorm? I always thought it was cool, but booting it up again it plays like shit. Slow ship speed is fighting against trying to lock on things. Bullet colors is orange in stage 1, but a dull purple in stage 2 that blends in with the water, almost everything is a ramming type enemy, lock on reticle is so far away that I can't hit enemies down the screen. I still don't know what the pick ups do other than knowing that there are green, red, blue crystals. It's a messy game unless you actually know this game already.
>>2745471
Not me. The ship's speed isn't the fastest but I found that with the way enemy waves come out it feels very natural to lock onto them. At least once you figure out a good order to do so. It feels smoother than it was in RayForce at times. No idea what you mean when you say that most of the enemies are ramming-type, that's not true. Most of them don't even come close to you if you stay near the bottom of the screen. They just shoot and fuck off. Also the pick ups power up your different shot types.
>>2745471
Green gives you another lock on laser, red improves your regular attack, yellow I think does both and blue maxes you out. Raystorm has its flaws, but overall its a pretty solid game, my major gripe is that you're confined to a certain area, but since the camera pitches around it sometimes shows you areas (pretty much always in the top left or right corners) that are inaccessible. When you try to get to the top right or left of the screen, your ship slows down as you approach the edges and stops before you can reach the corner.
It's not a big deal once you get used to it, but its easy to forget about it in the moment if you've been playing other shmups, and it really fucks you up when you're trying to dodge projectiles. Also the projectiles aren't coloured well to stand out from the background most of the time.
>2743178
>There aren't any tricks to the cartridges
Absolute truth, I always fuck up the chain here or whenever I try to get the secret extend.
>trying to full-chain a couple stages
Definitely this, getting full chains is the way to go on Daioujou, al least try full chaining the first two stages.
>since the camera pitches around it sometimes shows you areas (pretty much always in the top left or right corners) that are inaccessible
Because this is a 2.5D game, when you move to the sides, there are some peripheral areas (invisible walls) that you can't move past, and along with it, your shots are angled instead of going straight. So while this is indeed how perspective works, as a game mechanic it's really shit and frustrating when your angled shot won't align with that pesky popcorn enemy by an inch. It's a good point I forgot to mention.
>Also the projectiles aren't coloured well to stand out from the background most of the time.
This is one of the biggest issues. There's no color consistency in enemy bullets and they aren't colored very well.
>Green gives you another lock on laser, red improves your regular attack, yellow I think does both
Thanks.
Fucking Raystorm.
2-2 is giving me strange amounts of asspain. 2-3 is easy to no-miss, 2-4 is another difficult one and 2-5 I have trained too much.
Goddamn. At least I could no-miss to the cartridges today.
>>2743178
What I am saying that for 2nd loop I am using just safe routes. I haven't paid too much attention to scoring becauseas much as I love DOJBL I don't like the scoring system that much. It is ok, but I don't feel obliged to learn stage 3/4 full chains.
>>2745565
The perspective and player boundaries can be even worse when you're doing 2 player. Since the camera scrolls left and right as well, if the two players are on either side of the screen and either of them needs to move further outwards, say to dodge a bullet, then they're fucked. The screen stays where it is because the other player is anchoring it, and it won't zoom out because they didn't code it that way.
Despite these flaws, I really do like it. Music is fantastic, its a bright and colourful game (though fuck the bullets), and memorizing how to get the most lock on kills in each level provides a great challenge. Hell, its a vert with actual level design.
My mate has a physical copy that we play every now and then. I secretly practice in retroarch so that I may one day carry him through a 2p game.
I was playing the PSN version of Shienryu on my PS3 but got stuck when the level 6 boss didn't spawn. My ship just kept flying endlessly in space. Is this a known glitch?
>>2746589
>Shienryu
This game looks good. Shame I can't play it on mame somehow.
>>2746686
>Shame I can't play it on mame somehow.
It's on Sega Saturn equivalent arcade hardware (ST-V), and Mame can't emulate that for shit.
>>2746724
>and Mame can't emulate that for shit.
It depends on the game but yeah most of the shmups on the hardware have issues in mame.
Any ketsui fans? I haven't played anything else for months, shit is so god damn good.
Been playing this a lot lately. Such an amazing soundtrack spoiled by high pitched beam noises.
>>2747432
That feel when the best entry in the series has the least interesting artwork.
>>2747293
Yes, I've been playing ketsui lately since I just instaled shmupmame v4.2. Have been playing it for a month and I'm trying to play for score on the first loop, I actually got to 1-all it with a somewhat decent score, still i have to improve some things for the second loop.
>>2747589
cool
Y'all niggers need waifu pilots
I just finished G-Darius with a completely random route, love this fucking game to death. I just wish I could find a good stick for the PS1/2 that wasn't utter garbage.
>>2748119
Darius is at its best when you're just doing random exploring. Sticking to a route isn't much fun even if your odds at survival are a lot better.
>>2747972
GUH. 2hu truly is the eastern equivalent to MLP with how often sperglords like shoving that shit in places it just doesn't belong.
>>2747589
Good to see someone else playing Ketsui. I've been learning to score on the 1st loop as well.
Deltazeal got recently released on Steam. Game looks good. Go and get you fagets.
>>2748174
you're not updated I see. kancolle is the new 2hu.
>>2747589
That's crazy good score/progression for one month my man, good work. I'm ironing out alot of first loop also with 150/160 being around peak for the clear with my current strats without to many mistakes and 2-3 being current best survival wise. Ketsui just feels right though I can't see myself getting bored of it for ages if ever.
>>2748350
That's cool, Ketsui just feels so damn good. Once anyone gets the drill of scoring is just so inevitable to stop playing for score.
>>2748492
Thank you sir, Ketsui definitely a game that has always called my attention. I also was practicing a lot to get, al least, more than 120M on the first loop. This run wasn't meant to unlock Omote, I seriously don't know how to score that shit and always get to fail when it comes to macrododge suicide bullets. If I want to 2-ALL, I have to relearn the first loop in order to not miss so many times and also learn to use my bombs.
>>2748760
>If I want to 2-ALL, I have to relearn the first loop in order to not miss so many times and also learn to use my bombs.
How i learnt after devising a route for the first loop is force yourself to never bomb, that way i don't have to keep mental track of bombs+lives and it made me much more attentive and confident to going for everything as opposed to having clouded thinking and dropping a panic bomb. I dunno it works for me as like yourself i plan to go for the 2 all and probably keep pushing score after that also. 1st loop danger spots now are 80% stage 5 and the rest are 3/4 boss + midboss being occasionally random assholes.
How do you guys manage your hypers in DOJ? I mostly just let them fall off the screen.
>>2748760
>>2750149
That makes 3 of us going for a 2-ALL. Good luck, guys!
>>2750151
I plan all of them.
To get the most out of your hypers survival-wise, use 1 at a time. This way rank won't increase at a dramatic rate while still allowing you to make use of the increased fire-power. What you can also do is just keep 1 hyper on your ship constantly and use it as if it were a bomb. This can save you form rough spots. Though if you're still scared of using them, you can just let them fall off. Personally, I feel that the benefits of using a hyper far outweigh the detriments.
If you're looking to earn some bonus-points, it's still a good idea to save 5 hypers for the final stretch of stage 2.
>>2750161
>That makes 3 of us going for a 2-ALL. Good luck, guys!
Thanks man, tbh it's nice to see actual players in these threads for a change.
>>2747293
I 1-ALL'd for the first time with a 111M score recently.
Haven't played since. I want to score better and try the second loop at some point, but the requirements seem pretty harsh even for Omote.
I finally got a copy of Radiant Silvergun for my Saturn collection. N-now what?
>>2750506
throw it in the garbage, Treasure a shit
What does missile even do in Gradius? My bullets look the same
>>2750540
You have to press the second button, shoots downward middle at an angle.
>>2750485
>I 1-ALL'd for the first time with a 111M score recently.
>Haven't played since. I want to score better and try the second loop at some point, but the requirements seem pretty harsh even for Omote.
Well i 1 alled it like 2 years ago and felt the same as you but then i came back and forced myself to play no bombs whatever happens and found it forced me to learn the game to a much better level, it really reveals it's awesomeness when you start going for the loop and learning routes in the stages instead of relying on bombs for a cheese 1-all... Go for it!.
>>2750507
kill urself my man
>>2750734
>You have to press the second button
just map both to one button tbh it's not like you need to use one exclusively at any point.
>>2751247
The version I'm playing has all shot options mapped to one key as well, so it's fun to know that's not the case everywhere.
Right now I'm learning how best to dodge the Moai-head fire and do a no-miss run through stage 3, which is tough but I'm getting closer. At first I was playing a variant of Sharp's X68k port closer to the arcade, but now I'm using the floppy original (faster resetting helps) and rank is quicker to increase based on how many options you activate, only needing two before enemies and projectiles quicken. Maybe I'll jump back into this game at some point using MAME, I suppose, as I'm finishing up Final Crisis and eager to be done with Zanac.
>>2750506
Get a life.
>>2750506
Play it.
>>2751247
It's often important to time the bombs right, and when you need your primary shot at that moment, then that would awkward.
>>2750208
It feels really good to have that sense of hype about clearing a game once again.
Alright niggers. Post your Top 5 Favorite Shmups.
>Raiden II
>Kolibri
>Elemental Master
>MUSHA
>Jamestown (I know it's not retro, but it's a great shmup regardless)
I got the run!
>>2752492
Great job, anon
>>2752484
Well your taste is certainly "interesting"... Mine are in no particular order
>Ketsui
>Gradius iv
>Mushi futari
>Satazius
>Guwange blue
Ibara,Garegga,psyvariar revision and a couple others might appear on that list at a different time though.
>>2752492
That's no easy task right there, congrats fellow shmupian.
>>2752484
1. All arcade Darius games
2. R-Type Delta
3. RayForce
4. Gley Lancer
5. Mystic Square
>>2747293
Been playing it on and off for the better half od this year and I'm having a hard time scoring, by the time I hit 4th stage on the first loop I can only normally reach 45mil, anything you think I'm doing wrong? I'm also getting really close to wrapping up my first loop clear while I'm at it.
But holy shit, I know I'm definitely gonna be playing this for many years to come.
>>2752563
You need to be pointblanking enemies with your lock-on shot to kill them fast enough - it deals more damage at close range, and the options lock onto enemies faster when you're close which also increases the damage a lot. It's scary, but without it you really fall behind with the enemy kills especially on the later stages. Being close in the first place also makes it easier to start a chain.
>>2752563
One thing to bare in mind is short clean chains are just as valuable so don't panic and get familiar with enemy placement enough so you can build a clear idea of generally where you will start and finish chains, also think about that gaining 5s with the wide shot solely builds the second multiplier which will be cashed out on big enemies using the lockon, often this is more profitable than always accumulating 5s with the lock on chain so i'd suggest studying some youtube plays and practicing with save states to see how much you can adapt what you're seeing to your current ability. I'll suggest bananamatics replay as he has solid decent scoring routes that don't delve to far into the more nuance ridden confusing strats that superplayers like sps use. Ketsui is like scenario after scenario that you plan what you're going to do for so don't be afraid to do some save state grinding to find what works for you and really program that routine in as it is very easy (i still do now occasionally) forget something small and end up in a panic danger situation that could of been easily avoided.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBdLuFMW9s8
>>2752484
>Ikaruga
>Ikaruga
>Ikaruga
>Ikaruga
>Ikaruga
>>2752484
Gradius III
Salamander
Thunder Force III/IV
Dettana Twin BeeRadiant Silvergun
>>2752492
Hey, I was watching your stream.
What's the best input device forverties? I just use the d-pad, I've seen some people use a fight stick but I'm not sure if they're just being le retro gamur
>>2753203
>What's the best input device for verties?
The best is literally whatever you feel comfortable with, I played with a stick for 4 years after i first got into it and now I use an ascii ps1 pad and have found it perfect for me.
I just got a Saturn and a Rhea. What are the best shmups? Also is there a preferred Saturn stick I should purchase, or is there only one model/brand?
P.S. I am a little shmup baby who wants to be decimated, give me a game that will make me cry.
>>2753317
thunder force V
>>2753203
>fight stick
out
>>2753423
Sorry, is that a controversial controller scheme for shmups? I just assumed that I would want one since most of the shmups I played in Japan used a stick.
>>2753547
Thanks for clearing that up. I've been hanging out with people who play Third Strike and Melee too much - they refer to them as fight sticks, but I would agree that's incorrect.
The Hori stick seems to get what I am after, or maybe one of those HS110 ones or whatever it is called.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/377860
>>2755259
The only reason I may consider buying this, would be to get the bitter delay on PC.
>>2755772
More importantly getting to play the superior 1.5 version of the game. Mfw all the retards who piss and whinge about the lack of slowdown and input lag on mame get this and are still total shit so find something new to bitch about.
>>2755259
>All the bullets are the same colour
I probably shouldn't be bothered by something this minor but it really makes the game look unappealing
>>2756157
If you're more obsessed with aesthetics over the actual game you're probably a pleb who should stick to rpgs.
>>2756139
I shouldn't have chuckled.
>>2756160
Yeah you're right. Fuck shoot em ups.
>>2756178
Yeah it's not for you son and let's face it even with your best efforts you were only ever going to occupy the bottom 5% of the scoreboard. Don't be angry though the modern casual gaming world offers a broad horizon for dumb dumbs like yourself who require a more abacus tier challenge.
shh no elitism
only bug girls now
>>2756160
>aesthetics don't matter
If you're such le gameplay nazi true gamer you probably should stick to reddit,
>>2756221
Aw man, that showed him.:^)
>>2756221
And if you think ogling graphics is more important than the depths of gameplay in this genre then you shouldn't be here at all and are part of the problem. Sure aesthetics matter but no where near as much as the game itself. So which shmups do you play to a decent level? im curious... any at all?
>>2756227
I can beat touhou on easy (using continues)
>>2756227
>ogling
>depths of buzzword
>aesthetics isn't the game itself
>...
typical reddit gamer
>>2755259
How's the game itself? In the brief gameplay I saw the bullet patterns looked more like Espgaluda than the vomit gargles of DDP/Ketsui.
Who am I kidding, I'll be buying it anyway, but the visual vibe doesn't have me hyped.
>>2756234
I was going to shill the fuck out of this but I hate to say >>2756130 is right. They are basically selling a broken beta test for $20 and the actual game in the form of 1.5 as dlc for another $20. I still think it's a great game and novice mode is an excellent starting point for beginners, but they kinda just went full evil jew on this dlc scheme.
I'm not angry, just disappointed. I'd recommend waiting until they release Futari unless you really want to support CAVE on Steam or whatever.
>>2756234
And I think mushihime is more vomit gargling than Ketsui? Your hitbox in ultra mode is the same size as ketsui's at least.
>>2756230
You really think the shmup community is there because of how these games look? Dat american gamer mentality. You're just a grown up version of kids who get excited over christmas lights at this stage.
>>2756234
>but the visual vibe doesn't have me hyped.
Here come the plebs..
>>2756234
>How's the game itself?
It's all about 1.5 imo but in regards to the original ummm original mode is basically toaplan style and very easy well for anybody who actually tries which excludes 99% of the western fanbase. Maniac and ultra have some crazy tapping for scoring techniques that i don't like at all but again that probably won't concern 99% who will think getting past stage 2 is an achievement.
>>2756234
>I saw the bullet patterns looked more like Espgaluda than the vomit gargles of DDP/Ketsui.
No they don't and vomit gargles? You aren't playing those games right.
>>2756238
>They are basically selling a broken beta test for $20 and the actual game in the form of 1.5 as dlc for another $20.
Is this confirmed? If so fuck that Cave can suck a fat one I'm busy with ketsui anyway but 1.5 at a non retard price would of been nice.
>>2756227
Who the fuck wants to spend over 50 hours repeating the same 30 minutes if those 30 minutes look and sound like shit? If there's a genre where aesthetics are very important, it's shoot em ups.
>>2756243
>50 hours
Lmfao pleb confirmed. There isn't a single cave game that looks or sounds particularly bad though so it's a moot point and the figures speak for themselves just go look at any shmup scoreboard anywhere and you'l see the ratio of people who try to any kind of semi decent level is 2% tops.
>>2756238
$40 seems like fair price, wasn't it more expensive on X360?
>>2756252
>$40 seems like fair price,
In what reality? Crimson clover is god tier and cost a 1/4 of the price. Honestly cave fans are some of the biggest cucks around Cave treated the west with ignorance and like shit for years then they show up 6 years to late on the very platform everyone was begging for solely because the company is in financial difficulty and tries to pull some crazy price shit? By all means it's your money but holy fuck that is not a "fair price".
>>2756252
That's a terrible price, and if that's the pricing situation then Cave can suck my dick, I'll just play it on Mame.
>>2756269
>I'll just play it on Mame.
I agree about the price but 1.5 was never dumped so you won't.
>>2756269
It's not. 1.5 DLC price hasn't been announced.
>>2756272
Well in that case I'd just play something that I already have. Maybe that would give me the motivation to play for score.
>>2756241
I like vomit gargles, Ketsui's aimed shit and suicide bullets certainly fit that label.
From what I saw of Mushihimesama, the zakos fire straight lines of bullets (lasers) and there seemed to be a lot of radials from big enemies like in Espgaluda. Those don't look as nice.
>>2756278
>Maybe that would give me the motivation to play for score.
If you haven't found something you like enough by now given the massive amount of top tier stuff that's emulated then i can't see you developing that desire now. To many people get sucked into "muh new experience" so they buy/download some new shit play it for 3 days and want the next new accumulation rush you gotta get out of that bullshit and stick with something.
>>2756281
>I like vomit gargles, Ketsui's aimed shit and suicide bullets certainly fit that label.
Ok i wasn't seeing the visual analogy as you were so fair enough.
>>2756265
Why are you comparing it to doujin game, retard?
> treated the west with ignorance and like shit for years then they show up 6 years to late on the very platform everyone was begging
I can't decipher this fedora stream of consciousness, sorry.
>crazy price shit
Again, their games and other STGs always had this or more expensive prices. Why it should be cheaper on Steam?
>>2756285
>Why it should be cheaper on Steam?
Because every single worthwhile game on steam costs less than half of what they're asking. Even big names like Ikaruga.
>>2756285
>Why are you comparing it to doujin game, retard?
Really? Because that doujin was of the same quality if not better than most "professionally" developed shmups and it was developed by one of the greatest players in the world.
>>2756285
>I can't decipher
Yeah but you get that a lot don't you?
>>2756285
>Again, their games and other STGs always had this or more expensive prices. Why it should be cheaper on Steam?
Because it's a fucking download and a quick look at the market on this format clearly shows no other shmup cost anywhere near as much even Raiden 4 was half the price you fucking nappy sniffing sperg cunt. I bet you're one of those tragic cunts that owns every cave release 3 times just to show support aren't you? stay cuck you sad sack of shit.
>>2756265
tbh it's not like it was cave's job to put their games on steam, that's up to the publishers.
>>2756287
Ikaruga cost the same on Xbox Live, the fact that Steam has shit selection of games and Treasure's and MOSS business models don't oblige other companies to sell their product for peanuts
>>2756290
Doujin games are made of enthusiasm, and don't require to return investments you thick cunt
>Because it's a fucking download
So is MGSV.
>>2756304
>Doujin games are made of enthusiasm, and don't require to return investments you thick cunt
And a product is worth what a consumer is willing to pay for it and as stated a quick look at the market shows this price is unlikely desirable for most people and Caves need for return investments is only currently so high because the company is fucked as previously stated and it's their own fault for not embracing steam earlier when they could of set the standard for pricing before the competitive options showed up, so fuck off back to snorting coke off your reco fuck pillow in your snoopy pants fucking dickhead.
>>2756306
>is only currently so high
Are you pretending to be retarded? That's what their games always cost. It's their right to not giving a fuck about ideology of doing a big favor of support by paying $15 on the start or waiting for sale.
>>2756304
Crimzon Clover had an arcade release on Taito Nesica boards, bro. The Steam release is based on that version.
>>2756221
You're arguing against a community that thinks a game with buttugly pre-rendered CGI graphics is the height of arcade video gaming, m8. It's a lost cause, shmup fans have sacrificed all of their judgement and thinking process for autistic scoring. They're nothing more than soulless machines that exist solely to 1CC slightly above average video games.
>>2756328
kek
cgi looks ok for machines and insects though
>>2756241
>You really think the shmup community is there because of how these games look?
The Japanese community doesn't disregard aesthetics and keeps them on par with the actual gameplay.Yet more reason why nipps are superior to braindead gaijin.
>>2756328
Another dumb pleb cunt who can't think beyond aesthetics. Your mind is literally shaped by the western gaming media and it's fucking sad. You're the type of moron who thinks the same game running on slightly higher graphical settings with his gtx is instantly a better game.
>>2756335
>The Japanese community doesn't disregard aesthetics and keeps them on par with the actual gameplay
Indeed but no player quits a great game because they don't like a stage theme or how an enemy looks. Just like i didn't stop playing espgaluda even though i dislike the poor tier trance and tranny fairy characters.
>>2756335
Chorensha came out in 1995. Different demographics back then.
>>2756342
You mean Battle Garegga? You can't have good aesthetics in a vertical shitmup. That's stupid, just draw slight variations the same tiny ship sprite and pink dildo bullets.
>>2756337
>i didn't stop playing espgaluda even though i dislike the poor tier trance and tranny fairy characters
Sure, but you probably prefered other games over it with better aesthetics, although the gameplay was not much better.
>>2756343
>You mean Battle Garegga?
Dimahoo, 1944 and Brave Blade were the last shmups they developed before converting to making mobile phone games & Bleach fighters.
>>2756347
brave blade looks like total ass for the time it came out (2000 on ps1 hardware, same year when the dreamcast and naomi boards were at their peak)
>>2756343
>You can't have good aesthetics in a vertical shitmup
This thread is getting more and more retarded...
>>2756349
It's more than fine for what it is, which is a PS1-based manic shooter.
>>2756346
>Sure, but you probably prefered other games over it with better aesthetics, although the gameplay was not much better.
Well espgaluda has pretty original gameplay that although not my favorite is great in it's own right. I still stuck with espgaluda until i got a clear with a decent score as it's still a great game behind the things i don't like (aesthetically it is my least fav cave ever) and that's the most important thing... the core. Unfortunately it's almost impossible to communicate this to most people because they simply aren't prepared to invest effort and refused to be convinced by those of us that do of how fun it actually is when you start actually playing to get better, you literally see so much more of a game.
>>2756349
It's ugly as shit but plays really well and has a great scoring system, the looks really don't detract from it's fun at all.
>>2756350
Vert shitmups all look the same, deal with it.
>>2756358
The graphics are okay. Much better than something like Thunder Force V in fact.
>>2756362
Yeah sure and like i said it doesn't detract from the game at all that said i haven't seen it running on a proper crt and only in mame so maybe it's not so bad irl.
>>2756356
I agree with you that gameplay is definitely the most important, but I find aesthetics also very important.
The awesome soundtracks and cool art styles are one of the main things which draw me to this genre. They are much better imo, than having to listen to rap music or looking at faggy muscle packed heroes and slutty whores in skimpy clothes like in fighting games for example.
>>2756343
>>2756361
Oh, you're still here, can you pretend that you're spaceship and contain your autism, please?
>>2756387
kek at the image
But that's a hori shooter, no wonder it looks that good. Horis are just better suited for displaying good presentation values and no amount of memeing from your part is gonna change that.
>>2756397
>Horis are just better suited for displaying good presentation values
speaking of memeing
>>2756402
Let's just agree to disagree, I respect your bad opinions.
What's the difference with Mushihime ver1.5? I want to know what all the fuzz is about.
Mushihimesama is coming to Steam on November 5th!
>>2756443
Noone cares. Deltazeal is a much better game and it is already on Steam.
Reason why danmaku is not so great: Good gameplay has a good mix out of precisely shooting enemies and precisely dodging things, but the precision in danmaku is all just about dodging bullets, which means you will most of the time just spend looking at your ship to dodge better, while the rest of the screen is just filled with bullets anyway.
>>2756454
Fact: only aspergers use the word danmaku in mid-conversation unironically.
>>2756454
>Good gameplay has a good mix out of precisely shooting enemies and precisely dodging things
Any source on that?
>>2756454
>Deltazeal
>a remake of G-Stream G2020
Nice, didn't even know it existed.
>>2756464
It's just common sense. Also being able to observe the stage is much more interesting. But when the whole screen is just full of bullets, then there isn't much space to observe the stages. You have your eyes at your ship the whole time and move slowly milimetre for milimetre, while the rest of the screen is just full of bullets.
>>2756470
But that's because you're using shitty spread types, silly. Stop using training wheels.
>>2742740
Defunct developer Allumer made that shmup, and only their second one after Rezon.
>>2756471
Even when you don't use spread types, your eyes will still be mainly on your ship mostly. You just move more often from left to right then (in verties). Because even the straight shots are very powerful in these games, to the point where you hardly have to aim.
>>2756480
I disagree though, if you kill big enemies in mushihime they cancel out all the bullets.
>>2756480
What you saying mostly applies to bosses, but really you're dead set on hating the subgenre there's nothing I can say to change your mind.
>>2756454
The hell are you talking about?
Mushihimesama specifically has a lot of enemies that cancel bullets when killed that need to be shot down correctly. Just about every CAVE game is centered around shooting enemies and maneuvering around them more than dodging their bullets.
The only bullet hell games I can think of that have less emphasis on shooting are Touhous, which have grazing mechanics instead. But even many of those involve quite a bit of shooting, just not on the bosses.
>>2756484
Sure, but it doesn't nearly take as much precision to do this, than the aiming precision you need in games like Gradius for example, since your shot is much thinner there and the core of the enemies are harder to hit.
>>2756487
I don't hate the genre, I just don't prefer it. The only exception would be games like Ikaruga or Radiant Silvergun. This is danmaku done right (if you can still call this danmaku actually).
>>2756493
Also games like Battle Garegga are cool, but Cave style is not really my case.
Neat gameplay vid of an unreleased arcade STG based on N64 hardware.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6vG6Id908Y
The N64 didn't have much STG's now that you look back at it. There's Vanishing Earth, and that's it I think?
>>2756480
>your eyes will still be mainly on your ship mostly
No they won't. The ship is the last place you want to be looking at. And if you can get away with just moving horizontally and playing passively, you really need to play some actually difficult bullet hell games.
>>2756497
Nice find. Looks better than Star Soldier: Vanishing Earth.
>>2756493
>Sure, but it doesn't nearly take as much precision to do this, than the aiming precision you need in games like Gradius for example, since your shot is much thinner there and the core of the enemies are harder to hit.
You'll absolutely love playing for score then. You won't be able to spam randomly when you try going for a high-score.
>>2756405
That's the joke. People here are fuckheads that only want to play the game because it's not currently available. They don't care about the actual gameplay and will likely not even be able to get a basic 1cc.
>>2756515
>You won't be able to spam randomly when you try going for a high-score.
There is no other way than to randomly spam in games like Crimzon Clover. Just look at the size of your shot... It almost covers the whole screen in break mode.
Not all danmaku are like this though. Mainly only cave style games have this. Games like Ikaruga or Battle garegga are awesome, but Cave is rather meh imo.
>>2756524
But did you get a high-score playing Crimzon Clover? Did you get a high-score playing Cave games?
Look, I probably made this up in my fuzzy memory, so don't bother thinking too hard, but is there an horizontal shmup for either Genesis or SNES where most of the stages are giant motherships?
I could be confusing it with memories from Gleylancer or Phalanx's mothership stages.
>>2752484
R-Type Delta
R-Type Final
R-Type 3
Bio-Hazard Battle
SC92: Recca
>>2756527
What do you mean by "high-score"? Being in the top five rankings?
I 1cced Crimzon Clover on normal. It's cool, but I prefer other games more.
Currently I'm playing a Ikaruga, which takes a shitton more precision than this and is much much better game.
>>2756532
Have you tried scoring Dodonpachi? And by high-score I mean the highest possible score you can get as an individual. The kind of score that makes you go: "This is the very best I could possibly do'
>>2756532
A game where you hardly even need to shoot or dodge takes more precision than Crimzon Clover?
>>2756541
>Have you tried scoring Dodonpachi?
No, I am not that much interested in cave games, that's why I didn't play them much yet. I don't have to spend hundrets of hours playing to get to know a game though.
>The kind of score that makes you go: "This is the very best I could possibly do'
This doesn't exist for me. Good players never stop getting better. There is always room for improvement, no matter how good you are, if not, then the game you play is too simple and easy.
>>2756549
>No, I am not that much interested in cave games, that's why I didn't play them much yet.
If you're not interested, how would you know before you try them out seriously?
>This doesn't exist for me. Good players never stop getting better. There is always room for improvement, no matter how good you are, if not, then the game you play is too simple and easy.
Bullshit, it's the exact opposite. If you're a skilled player, you know exactly where your limits lie. It sounds like you haven't failed enough yet, or you would know this.
>>2756560
>how would you know before you try them out seriously?
Again, I don't have to play a game for hundrets of hours to get to know them. Go and suck a dick retard.
>>2756542
>he only plays as dot eater
Stop being a scrub and play for score
>>2756542
>A game where you hardly even need to shoot or dodge
Sounds like you're talking about Crimzon "Just Double Break Everything" Clover here.
>>2751247
Obviously never played on a high loop with suicide bullets.
"Verts were a mistake" -people who aren't Cave drones or touhoutards
the only horizontal game worth playing is Boogie Wings
>>2756650
I have looped them all but not got upto the kind of loops where that matters and nor has who i was talking to so what i said still stands.
>>2756532
>Currently I'm playing a Ikaruga, which takes a shitton more precision than this and is much much better game.
Bullshit, at a high level all these games require a high level of precision in one way or another and for crimzon that is in timing and enemy placements to attain max breaks achievable. Ikaruga just spells it out a bit more for you and is gash to boot.
>>2756853
I was talking about aiming precision. In Crimzon Clover your shot is very big. In Ikaruga you often have to sniper single enemies with a very thin shot.
>>2756858
Also often with a single burst because your first bullet is narrower than the stream and because you don't want to kill the enemy behind the one you're shooting. Precise as fuck.
>>2756919
That's exactly what I was talking about.
>>2756443
>mfw
Aw yeah, motherfucker.
Fuck off with your waifu pilot kiddie gay shit fagets. Real shmups are HARD to the CORE!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAoI1m5CC9Y&list=PLirSddeMOYZ5cbYufElHsAneoOnKIkb-Q&index=6
>>2757083
That looks like a penis.
What's your fav non-japanese shmup?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbaA1qIx-C4
>>2756405
Extra enemies everywhere
Remixed music
Notches on boss lifebars to indicate ends of phases
You can't speed kill the TLB's 2nd form anymore
Original Mode now has a shitty scoring system where you sit at the top of the screen and point blank for the entire game
The stage 5 boss has completely different patterns in Original Mode
The addition of max power mode, which lets you start the game with full power and autobomb, but you only get one bomb per life and enemies are more aggressive
Original-max has a rank system based on your counter, similar to futari original. At over 10000 bullets get faster and glow green, over 50000 they get even faster and glow red
>>2757474
Darius
>>2757474
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbaA1qIx-C4
how can a human play this
What arcade shmups do you recommend for beginners? I'm in Tokyo, so there should be something available somewhere.
>>2757892
Hmm, didn't know about that place, thanks.
It'll be quite a trip for me, but it seems interesting enough to visit.
Thoughts on this game?
Best weapon? Best formation?
Seems that Fire and Water are the most useful since they neutralize enemy bullets.
>>2757850
The player is literally invincible 90% of the time but no Ikaruga requires no dodging hurf durf durr
>>2756853
What the hell is gash?
>>2758062
Ask your mother.
>>2757887
There is no shmup for beginners.
>>2757850
There's a special field surrounding you. Each time you dodge a bullet at hair lengths of distance, as long as the bullet enters the field, it builds you a meter. When you build up the meter you get a single second of invulnerability. Dodging multiple bullets at hair lengths of distance makes you invincible as long as you don't fuck up and skip a dodge or hit a bullet while in your vulnerable state.
Korea has really out-autism'd Japan here.
>>2757887
Ikaruga you don't have to shoot or dodge.
>>2758913
How does that work?
>>2758989
You watch memexac's pro review of Ikaruga then go onto 4chan and say stupid shit about a game you've never played seriously while deflecting criticism of CAVE games with 'it gets good 1000 hours in'.
>>2759000
>criticism of CAVE games
based on memexac reviews?
>>2759002
Where's your high score bro? You can't say you don't like Dodonpachi if you haven't even broken the world record.
>>2759006
Then just don't
>say stupid shit about a game you've never played seriously
>>2759000
The funny thing pretty much all the best ikaruga players state how unfun it is at a high level which unsurprisingly is beyond what you ign opinion mirroring twats have ever actually done in the game. Ikaruga is fucking shit when you actually play it properly so go away.
