What was their endgame, anyway?
What did they try to accomplish, especially in X?
>>27187358
They wanted to kill off a majority of humanity and all Pokemon in order to make the world a more beautiful place to live in since Lysandre believed that humanity was corrupting the world with war, crime, etc.
>>27187406
so they were the good guys?
>>27187430
edgy
>>27187430
If you're a PETA-loving Greenpeace vegan liberal, maybe.
Otherwise, he was just a mass-murdering near-religious fanatic on the same level as ISIS.
>>27187358
I honestly don't remember and I replayed the game like 3 months ago
>>27187358
They wanted to be incredibly poorly designed retards with little to no sensible plans, and they succeeded with flying colors.
They were pretty fashionable though, team galaxy tier
>>27187358
Most forgettable fucking team with shit goals and motivations. Apparently, Lysandre created the Holocast and then spied on people, then they needed money so they robbed people. Then in the end, wanted to kill everyone and everything?
Jesus GF, please have a more coherent team in SM that has a decent design and theme
>>27187451
>PETA-loving Greenpeace vegan liberal
These types usually just call him a mass-murdering near-religious fanatic on the same level as ISIS.
>There will never be a level-headed villain with justifiable motivations and ambiguous morals with an attainable and fitting end goal
>They will always be motivated by I WANT A NEW WORLD IM LE CRAZY NOW FIGHT MY POKEMON, IF YOU WIN I STOP
>>27187430
Sort of, aside from trying to commit genocide he wasn't technically wrong with his idea of humanity making the world ugly. A majority of humanity is indeed corrupt and war, murder, crime, etc. all makes it a bad place to live in.
>>27187518
>>27187549
Didn't he retreat to his mancave after being btfo by a 10 year old
>>27187565
Not only that, but when he was finally going to rejoin his team in Johto he decided not to because another kid beat him.
>>27187518
Ghetsis was good.
>lol jk this is all bullshit i just want to take over the world die kiddo
>>27187358
Lysandre devoted his life to helping people only to realize it was all pointless. The people he was trying to help were the problem.
>>27187358
They wanted to waste your fucking time. Shit, other than the boss there's 5 admin-like people in that pic and I can't remember the name or anything for that matter about a single one of them. We should just ignore anything story related to X&Y and move on
>>27187565
Pokemon Origins did a decent job of humanizing Giovanni. If you take that bit as a canon representation of the story, Giovanni was a trainer who loved his Pokemon, but was blinded by profits, and seeing/battling Red on multiple occasions helped remind him of that.
Beyond that, getting blown out by a 10 year old Pokemon League Champion over and over would certainly make you reconsider things. In a realistic case, all Red would have to do is say "Look, Giovanni the Viridian City gym leader is the head of a criminal organization!" and that's that.
>>27187358
Honestly they're just in the game to tick boxes, Pokemon needs a huge formula rework
Lysandere has this mindset that people fight over what is limited and hurts everyone in the process and just wants to destroy everything in humanity and create a new world where there won't be anything to fight about
He even tries to compare it to how you and Serena/Calem needed to battle over who gets the mega ring
Pokemon was also a key factor to which he shed tears that Pokemon need to cease to exist as well
>>27187430
this is why women are repulsed by you
>>27187430
Team Red Pill
>>27187642
So basically they gave him the logic of a 5 year old who saw mommy and daddy fight
>>27187642
I really enjoyed Lysandre's philosophy. Even crying because he'd have to kill Pokemon--which he obviously loves as he's capable of Mega Evolving one--was an interesting remark, because he's quite right. Pokemon are often used as living weapons/tools to achieve ends. Just look at... well, every other Team out there.
It's a shame that he was ruined by the Fashion Police he hired as goons.
>>27187670
Not really. Go read his Bulbapedia page or something. The game does an okay job of explaining it. But a terrible job to displaying it.
>>27187679
This. Lysandre would have much more weight if his admins and team were legit believers in his ideals. Rather than just whichever selfish people had enough money to get it.
>>27187430
LYSANDRE DID NOTHING WRONG
>>27187518
>justifiable motivations
Then they would not be the villain. Specially in a children's game.
I guess Giovanni is more down your alley, far from justifiable but he was not crazy or wanting anything else besides money and pokemon
>>27187774
N had justifiable motives, but was painted as a villain. They just had that "twist" with Ghetsis being the Cheney and really wanting to be the overlord of Pokemon.
>>27187803
N's goal was contradictory to the nature of Pokemon. As nice a character as he is it always seemed retarded.
>>27187774
By which I mean a character that opposes the ideals of the playable characters, you can have justifiable motivations and still be the villain. You can have shit like -someone close died from Pokemon battling-, -someone close got hurt because battling exists-, -Pokemon are reduced to simple slaves and injured by humans forcing them to battle- which sets the villain on a purging rampage. Of course that would never ever happen but it's just an example of what they could do with a villain but we end up with forgettable crap
>>27187430
The end justifies the means
I like Team Flare if only for having variety of viable EVOLVED mons on their teams. Team Rocket, Aqua, Magma and even Galactic could learn. Only Plasma was passable in that matter
>>27187853
Most of that sounds forced like Batman vs Superman.
I believe N was at least more understandable though, even if he was ultimately a puppet to someone else's end game.
>>27187885
They're just extreme examples to get an idea but GF seems like they're forced to stick with the same formula and only really diverged in Gen 5 then everyone got pissed when it went back to the old ways. The point is there's little to no optimism for a memorable villain, memorable in the good way
>You'll never spend God knows how long raising an adopted kid to have a very specific mindset
>You'll never pretend to be pure and preach to people to leave their Pokemon alone and be free
>You'll never have a giant hidden base right behind the Pokemon league
>You'll never have a Hydriegon before at level 54
>You'll never have your plans ruined because some 10 year old was too attractive to your adopted Son
>You'll never break into insanity because you spent too long on your plan and become a fucking terrorist who almost kills another 10 year old
>tfw you turned out to be the Team Flare grunt that defeated the protags
>Lysandere's plan worked
>Everyone fucking dies except Team Flare
>Lysandere personally congratulates you for stopping those fucking kids
>Realize humanity needs to be rebuilt
>Including a new generation of humans
>tfw your the only male grunt left
>All female Team Flare members must be impregnated to continue the new generation
>>27187573
He couldn't handle another embarrassing loss
>He was beat by a little kid multiple times? what type of leader is he?
>>27187518
What if they made a game where you PLAY as the Pokemon Villain instead?
wait
they already did that
>>27188233
Well, to be fair, every adult including the Elite Four was beaten by him. He's the #1 Pokemon Trainer in Kanto. It's not that bad of a defeat when you think about it that way.
>>27187451
>Greenpeace
>They wear red
Opinion discarded
>>27187451
It's less Greenpeace, and more like if Greenpeace thought that the best way to save the environment was by bombing the shit out of it. Basically PETA
>>27187565
>>27187573
To be fair, Red and Gold are supposed to be child prodigies, so it's not that bad, right?
That's my headcanon explanation as to how training and beating leagues is so easy for them.
Kek
Team Flare are just a joke.
So here.
Basically Lysandre have a more "complex" character.
In contrast all the grunts are just simple shits and loons.
You know like the SJW and the like.
That's why all are punks and artist and so on.
It's funny,
>>27187679
>>27187703
He wanted to save only people he deemed worthy of remaining after killing everyone else. In his eyes, someone successful enough to have heaps of money had accomplished great things in life, so he put a sizable entrance fee on Team Flare to filter out the garbage. What he didn't count on was that the very qualities he considered admirable were the same ones that would stop someone from agreeing with his world view. As a result, the entrance fee did nothing but attract a bunch of spoiled rich kids born into money. Those were the exact kind of unproductive people he was trying to eliminate.
He was so focused on his goal of a perfect world that he was blind to the world of garbage he nearly created.
Their motives are...complex.
Do people even pay attention to the plot of these games? I honestly can't remember anything about any of them.
Exciting my penis
>>27187508
They needed the money to fund the Ultimate Weapon project. They even stated it.
>>27187658
Because women are the root of all evil, and they know that if you have a problem with things that are morally corrupt, you'll probably have a problem with all their manipulative bullshit.
>>27187430
Yes.
>>27187358
They wanted to style so hard that everyone else died.
>>27192075
heh, he put on some weight
>>27192026
SUFFRAGE WAS A MISTAKE
>>27187518
Aside from Archie and Maxie, who were both right but couldn't find balance with the opposing argument, and Cyrus, who was actually mentally ill and thus right in his own mind, they all had justifiable motivations. Hey, besides archie and maxie, they all nearly achieved what they wanted, had it not been for the protagonist.
>>27192147
Cyrus is an autist but I found him strangely likeable especially in Adventure
>>27187518
>IF YOU WIN I STOP
But both Ghetsis and Lysander didn't stop just because you won
I wish Xerosic would have had a bigger role creating super pokemon trainers for Lyssandre instead of the super suit just being a thing brought up in a side quest.
the Looker quest was actually the best plot of any pokemon game I have played.
>>27192603
Lysander was going to let it stop. Xerosic activated the device and Lysander rolled with it because he couldn't then shut it down
>>27187664
/thread
>>27194566
Lysandre was always a character with honor. It made sense for him to stop when defeated, unlike other purely selfish and evil antagonists. Xerosic activating it showed his devotion to Lysandre who recognized it and accepted his duty to everyone who had helped him get that fae.
>>27187430
If it were the real world, then yes, but since this shit is the pokémon world where every region seems to be first world economy, then probably
>>27187358
Turning a sweet innocent homeless teenage girl into a BDSM supervillain who beats up detectives.
>>27187358
Gen 1: Team Rocket want to steal Pokémon and resell them for money
Gen 2: Team Rocket want the above and also to get their beloved boss back
Gen 3: Team Aqua want to flood the world for nature's good, Team Magma want to dry up the seas for nature's good
Gen 4: Cyrus wants to harness the power of legendary Pokémon to become god or something
Gen 5: Ghetsis wants to use N's power to communicate with Pokémon in order to make himself and Team Plasma more powerful and take over the world, N wants to use Team Plasma to help free all of the Pokémon in the world, Ghetsis pretends to go along with this plan... or something along those lines?
Gen 6: There's some bad guys, they talk about beauty, then the boss gains robot tentacles and brings back a machine that killed millions of people a long time ago because ???
They could have had it so Lysandre wanted to bring back his dead wife and needed the machine Az used for his Floette or something like that, but instead they just seemed to have a fundamental desire to destroy the world.
>>27187518
N was right
Release your pokemon
>>27196274
>They could have had it so Lysandre wanted to bring back his dead wife and needed the machine Az used for his Floette or something like that, but instead they just seemed to have a fundamental desire to destroy the world.
But then you wouldn't have as much Lysandre/Sycamore
