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You are currently reading a thread in /vp/ - Pokemon
![645Landorus-Therian[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/8YilToE.png "645Landorus-Therian[1].png")
Usage stats for June: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/smogon-usage-based-tier-update-may-2016.3571918/page-13#post-6883406
| 1 | Landorus-Therian | 33.138% |
| 2 | Garchomp | 19.515% |
| 3 | Latios | 18.654% |
| 4 | Heatran | 17.780% |
| 5 | Rotom-Wash | 17.214% |
| 6 | Keldeo | 17.122% |
| 7 | Excadrill | 16.219% |
| 8 | Clefable | 16.208% |
| 9 | Tyranitar | 14.444% |
| 10 | Talonflame | 13.983% |
| 11 | Ferrothorn | 12.880% |
| 12 | Tornadus-Therian | 11.676% |
| 13 | Starmie | 11.649% |
| 14 | Bisharp | 11.644% |
| 15 | Skarmory | 11.573% |
| 16 | Azumarill | 10.712% |
| 17 | Weavile | 10.606% |
| 18 | Jirachi | 10.079% |
| 19 | Scizor-Mega | 9.655% |
| 20 | Volcanion | 8.876% |
| 21 | Latias | 8.602% |
| 22 | Thundurus | 8.382% |
| 23 | Medicham-Mega | 8.353% |
| 24 | Lopunny-Mega | 7.876% |
| 25 | Gengar | 7.437% |
Muh boi Lando-T is back where he belongs
remove ground/flying types
>>26986383
>>26986383
> amoonguss at 30
People are finally realizing how godly this mushroom is after almost 2 generations. Tangrowth also looks like it will be OU soon. Nice.
| 52 | Tangrowth | 3.428% |
Tangrowth will likely to be moving up from RU to OU next shift
| 67 | Goodra | 3.326% |
| 68 | Shaymin | 3.092% |
| 69 | Haxorus | 3.064% |
Goodra, Shaymin, and Haxorus will be dropping from UU to RU
| 60 | Trevenant | 2.856% |
Trevenant will be dropping from RU to NU (fucking finally)
| 58 | Zangoose | 3.435% |
| 59 | Cacturne | 3.375% |
| 60 | Rotom-Fan | 2.970% |
| 62 | Muk | 2.614% |
| 63 | Smeargle | 2.570% |
| 66 | Pelipper | 2.399% |
Zangoose MIGHT drop from NU to PU, and Cacturne, Rotom-Fan, Muk, Smeargle, and Pelipper will drop
>>26986383
meanwhile Landorus usage is dropping in high ladder vgc.
>>26986462
>haxorous to RU
jesus the powercreep is real
>zangoose will drop
lol there goes another PU ban
also, why is tangrowth moving up?
>>26986558
>why is tangrowth moving up?
Good Defense, Ground resist, and Renegerator
>>26986383
33% really isnt that bad.
There is always.. ALWAYS going to be pokemon that the metagame pivots around. Last gen, you'd see Rotom at around 45% usage. Some pokemon will just be more appropriate for the weather of the current metagame, its inevitable.
>>26986462
Haxorus and Shaymin would be banned so quick
>>26986462
>| 67 | Goodra | 3.326% |
What a fucking disgrace.
>>26986615
>Last gen, you'd see Rotom at around 45% usage
when was that?
>>26986615
I think you mispelled Scizor.
>>26986838
I'm not gonna search through a shit ton of posts to find it, but Rotom-W was consistently at the top. Though, youre right in that Scizor wasn't far behind, some months even topping it.
>>26986799
It held very high percentage for awhile, pretty much throughout all of Gen V, but peaked in B2W2 with Keldeo and friends dicking around.
I'd be willing to bet that it's average among all the months was comparable to this 33% Lando usage we're seeing now.
>People complain about scald
>The most used mon is weak to it
>Lando T will never be banned in your life time
;_;
>>26986462
good to see pelipper back in its home
smeargle and cacturne might be too much for PU
>>26986383
damn volcanion beating out lopunny and latias not bad
my nigga Gengar still churning it out in the top 25
>>26986558
It's not so much power creep but it can't compete with Salamance+Fairies
AV Tornadus-T is quickly becoming one of my favorite competitive Pokemon.
Anyway, just because something is GOOD, doesn't mean it is BROKEN. Only dumbasses think that a Pokemon being overused in the OverUsed tier is a bad thing.
It's when you need to build around a Pokemon that it becomes a problem. You don't need to build around Landorus-T.
>>26986879
>Two things can't be annoying at the same time
>>26986462
Smeargle and Zangoose will get banned from PU
>>26986536
That's because it's Primal Groudon and friends the tier now
>>26987049
Haxorus can actually deal with Fairies better than Salamence can. Salamence has to rely on Iron Tail (which has shit accuracy), Haxorus gets Poison Jab.
The real problem with Haxorus is its speed.
>>26987163
>Haxorus can actually deal with Fairies better than Salamence can.
True, though it does hamper it's Outrage spam. That's in a way, Haxorus' claim to fame, and its not all that effective nowadays.
Also, people do underestimate raw Attacking stats. They dont have as much "weight" as Defense does, so having 147 Atk isnt all that crazy. It's why Lucario with 110 SpAtk can actually outdamage M-Lucario with 145 SpAtk (outside of STAB). Multipliers in moves and abilities and held items matter a lot more.
>smogon has tier changes every 3 months
>peoples bros get banned in their tiers for being to popular
>vgc never has a tier list
>you know from the beginning which mons are legal and it never changes
Defend this smogonbabs!
>>26986861
Hate to be that guy, but i looked up the stats. Scizor was pretty much always ahead of Rotom w except kinda early on (where they sat at 2 and 3 behind Tyranitar then Dragonite). After that, Scizor stays top at about 30-25% usage for months. It drops around the time Genesect gets added then shoots back up after. Rotom w was not the force that scizor was.
Sauce: http://www.smogon.com/tiers/ou/usage
>>26987247
>I know nothing of smogon: the post: special summer editiom
Wew lad. I'll just say dynamic meta>stale primal and friends meta
>>26987381
>swampert gets recovery
>people start using swampert in OU
>swampert is now banned from all lower tiers
yeah i know nothing. how much are the smogon mods paying you to shill for them?
>>26987247
*defends this*
>>26987407
what you know as "underused" is completely determined by usage
you can't favor the usage-based tiering system for some contexts and favor it in other contexts
>>26987120
If Machoke is leaving then Zangoose definitely won't see the light of day. Looking forward to Pelliper and Muk though.
>>26987428
meant to say
>you can't favor the usage-based tiering system for some contexts and object to it in other contexts
>>26987428
>liligant
When was the last time you ever saw liligant used in the smogon world cup?
Thanks for anything can be used successfully in vgc thanks to the diversity it provides.
>>26987407
Yes, that's the point of a usage-based tier system
If Pokemon are good, then people will use them
>>26987464
Lilligant was rarely used
Other 5 pokemon did job better
>>26987488
>>26987464
here's a gastrodon being used in SPL
pre hoopa-u ban obviously
there's a tangrowth in there too
>>26986420
>Snorunt used Icy Wind!
>It's Super Effective!
>Gliscor/ Landorus Fainted!
>>26987549
>Focus Sash
>Swords Dance
>>26987549
>Landorus-Therian used Earthquake!
>Snorunt fainted!
>>26987549
I know this is always bait but it still makes me mad every time because there are retards that legitimately believe this.
>>26987573
>I know this is always bait but it still makes me mad every time because there are retards that legitimately believe this.
>252+ SpA Life Orb Snorunt Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 364-437 (102.8 - 123.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
:^)
>>26987428
I'm really curious as to why there's only one M-Rayquaza on that list, I thought if it were allowed, it would be everywhere.
>>26987619
Because then you can't use Mega Mom.
>>26987619
It's better to run 2 Legendaries + M-Kanga than it is to run 1 + M-Quaza and not have another mega
smogon and their cultists all deserve to die, you are the testicular cancer of the Pokemon community
>>26986383
>If you start watching a random OU battle, there's approximately a 55% chance that you see a Landorus-T (i.e. more than half of the time)
>>26987610
>what is outspeeding
>>26987560
>Running sash on Gliscor or Landorus
>>26987568
>Not sashing Snorunt
>>26987573
See >>26987610
>>26987704
'sup Verlisify
>>26987726
>0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Snorunt: 178-211 (73.8 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
::^^))
>>26987163
You don't just run Earthquake on Salamence? At +2 it kills most fairies and 2HKO's them at +1, making it impossible to switch in. When I use Salamence the problem is fucking Sableye using will-o-wisp on me or those god damn Choice band Enties ruining everything with Extreme Speed. Fuck Entei.
Gee if only a certain ninja frog wasn't banned.
>>26987534
1/6 pokemon MIGHT be unique
in vgc you see things like clefairy. jellicent, and even tangela all on the same team.
face it smogons meta is the same 110 pokemon recycled over and over again. trash.
>>26987887
110 is a huge pool
>>26987885
GRENINJA HAD NO COUNTERS!
sure gyarados, umbreon, skuntank, chansey, empoleon can switch in and deal with it, and any form of priority just out right beats it, and its life orb with being weak to hazards means itll take damage fast but
GRENINJA HAD NO COUNTER PLAY!
>>26987905
must have mistyped that, i meant 10. when things like landorus therian are on over 50% of the teams you know its true.
>>26987925
Oh I know. I simply wanted to watch the metagame burn slowly and painfully.
>>26987925
>look its this argument again!
Why do faggots who don't even play it get so salty over smogon? Especially since they don't even play VGC either?
>>26987925
It doesn't though, its "counters" depend entirely on what its fourth move is
If it's Low Kick, Empoleon and Porygon2 get wrecked
If it's Extrasensory, Tentacruel gets wrecked
It was basically a matter of praying that your Greninja counter is the right one for that particular Greninja; if your Greninja counter is the wrong one, you lose
>>26987958
funny how all of those counters actually deal with this "broken" frog yet people were too stupid to adapt or just shouted "muh mememons!"
>>26987944
primal groudon is on like 99% of teams why do you think that a pokemon being overused in the overused tier is a bad thing
landorus-therian is the most used pokemon for the same reason that rotom-w was the most used pokemon in early xy, and the same reason jirachi had 20% usage in bw2 ou, it keeps the physical powerhouses in check (in jirachi's case it was dragons)
it is far more than ten
>>26987887
in ou you see things like umbreon, goodra, and even donphan all on the same team
that's among shitters though and you won't find a single vgc top player who is using "clefairy, jellicent, and tangela all on the same team"
>>26988003
>If it's Low Kick, Empoleon and Porygon2 get wrecked
>72 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 120 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 112-135 (29.9 - 36%) -- 41.3% chance to 3HKO
>72 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Low Kick (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Float Stone Empoleon: 133-156 (35.7 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
>>26987925
Umbreon, Skuntank, and Empoleon are all shitmons that have no business being used in OU.
If people were using those to deal with Greninja, that right there tells you there's a problem.
If a "counter" has no use outside of being a counter, then it's not a very good counter.
>>26988072
please stop people will think you're serious
Look at VGC usage stats and tell me that it's not infinitely more cancerous than smogon OU could ever be.
>>26987925
Can somebody update this pic?
>>26988090
>empoleon can defog, rocks, and steel type resists fairy on top of its good sp. def
>shitmon
I've seen people used it and have used it myself, its far from a shitmon.
I wont explain what skuntank can do since you think if its not spammed in at least 30% of battles then its a shitmon.
>>26988117
By definition it has quite a few counters despite the smogon propoganda.
Not to mention every smogon hyper offense tard is packing 10 forms of priority so it cant do anything.
Oh i also forgot any pokemon holding a choice scarf can check it too =(
>>26988135
Aren't you that 1700 guy with a team built around Skuntank that pops up in the replay threads from time to time?
>>26988127
And what site did you get those stats from?
>>26986383
Mega Medicham is getting that much usage?
I thought everyone hated it and would've rather use Mega Gallade.
I'm glad its getting some love.
>>26988165
Even if i was the sub 1200 shitters think they know better because they parrot what they hear the smogon mods say
>>26988155
So this is what it boils down? A community banned your favourite Pokemon from their battle simulator and now you feel the need to tell everyone you've been wronged? Get over it babbie and play Battle Spot if you care that much.
>252+ Atk Life Orb Greninja Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 248 HP / 204 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 133-159 (35.6 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
>252+ Atk Life Orb Greninja Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 299-354 (46.5 - 55.1%) -- 67.6% chance to 2HKO
Gee I thought this pokemon was counterless.
>>26987761
>>26987610
Really makes you think
>>26988178
Mega Gallade doesn't hit hard enough to break through common defensive cores
Mega Medicham does
>>26988188
Nope, i'm a stallfag i loved greninja in the meta since it gave chansey free turns.
I'm just saying it wasn't broken along with a few other things smogon banned.
>>26986462
>tfw you've been using tangrowth in OU successfully since it's release
Feels bad
I don't want people to be prepared for it
>>26988166
Smogon of course. What's your point? The smogon community has extensive and excellent analysis on everything. 50000 people visit the VGC subforum, nearly as many as OU.
>>26988199
Dont forget empoleon, umbreon, gyarados, oh and the fact that grennija only has FOUR FUCKING MOVES AT ONE TIME AND NOT THE TEN PEOPLE CLAIM
>>26988208
Smogon has been pretty ban happy this Gen, I'll admit that.
>>26988199
Chansey is a stallmon. It can only viably used on stall teams.
Balanced and offensive teams have no way of dealing with Greninja.
>>26988223
>smogon is better than vgc
>uses smogon stats
do you know what a conflict of interest is, anon?
>>26987247
You're saying that as if it's a problem
>>26988208
That's just the thing.
Stall had ways of dealing with Greninja.
Offense and Balance did not.
Smogon's metagame is balanced around three playstyles; Stall, Offense, and Balance.
When a Pokemon throws off the balance by making of these playstyles unviable, it gets the boot.
>>26988246
>offensive teams
well if you build an offensive team with no priority or scarf pokemon i'm pretty sure you had bigger problems than greninja.
as far as balanced teams go you can put things like chansey on them, even if you disagree whats stopping you from using any of the other counters that are a bit more offensive?
>>26988251
Yes of course I know, my newfriend. This isn't one.
I compared OU with VGC stats, both come from smogon, but that literally doesn't matter.
>>26987887
You should watch more tour matches
>252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 0 HP / 236 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 203-242 (57.8 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Drain Punch OHKO's and Mach deals 74.3 - 88.4% damage, which would leave him only one more attack before it dies to LO recoil
>>26988178
>I thought everyone hated it and would've rather use Mega Gallade.
Mega Gallade was overhyped for the first week after ORAS came out but it became clear very quickly that Mega Medicham is the better mon.
>>26988208
>it gave chansey free turns.
Despite this being a lie (she gets 2hkoed), you really are a shitter aren't you, giving chansey of all pokemon a free turn is nothing, if anything she's the one giving free turns.
>>26988325
>Pokemon is a 1-on-1 game
Greninja is not going to stay in
Greninja's role is not to sweep teams; it's to punch roles in teams so its teammates can sweep
>>26988325
>geez i hope he doesnt have shadow sneak
>>26988325
>252+ Atk Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Greninja: 98-116 (34.3 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Don't Drain Punch Psychic types anon.
>>26988349
You're wasting your time. Half of the people in this thread don't play competitively or if they do are low ladder shitters.
>>26988373
>muh elo
Ever noticed how the people who ever say that never post their ranking?
>>26988334
>Despite this being a lie (she gets 2hkoed)
Even max attack Greninja doesn't reliable 2HKO her.
>>26988271
You don't actually play the game do you?
Reading articles made by some SPL player and chatting up in the showdown chat is great and all but there is nothing like hands on experience.
Once again it had valid counters, and a shit ton of checks.
>>26988334
>gets 2hko'd
>72 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 234-276 (33.2 - 39.2%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO
who's the shitter?
>>26988325
>Drain Punch OHKOs
Do you know how Protean works?
I never got why this thing is used so much honestly, Skarmory completely walls him and can just whirlwind him out if he tries to set up and if that fails somehow just use Weavile/Mamoswine/anything with Ice
>>26988511
If I knock that off would he die?
>>26988526
Muh momentum (Landorus-Therian) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Snore
- Role Play
- Imprison
>>26988409
(You)
>>26988349
What holes will it be punching if i carry a sure fire switch in that will wall it all battle?
>>26988588
>So shook he won't post his elo
Betting on 1500 at most
>>26988607
Wasn't him lol.
>>26988526
Yeah, because Landorus-T is staying in on anything that uses an Ice-type move, right? Because anything that uses an Ice-type move can switch in to STAB base gorillion Attack Earthquake?
Skarmory walls it? Cool. Landorus-T isn't overused because it can sweep, Landorus is overused because it checks or counters most physical threats in OU. The fact that Skarmory counters it is irrelevant.
It's the worst meta of all time. So.ost all those Pokemon are ugly and annoying. .much like the cards that use them.
>>26988731
Wow. That's amazing.
Then go play UU with my bros Tentacruel, Mienshao, and Mega Beedrill.
Or RU with awesome mons like Spiritomb, Sneasel, and Flygon.
Smogon doesn't mean you're restricted to OU. OU is basically ubers2 anyway with no usage-tier above it.
>>26986383
>genies are bad
>digichomp is good
lmao why does landorus trigger gen 4 kiddies so much
>>26986449
where did the grass type is bad meme come from anyway? There are dozens of the things floating around OU and grass type coverage moves are relatively common
>>26986383
there is literally nothing wrong with using landorus
>>26992631
Bravest of Birds you colossal faggot.
>>26988127
>>26988166
Using battlespotstas.com instead we get
>Data for Groudon in ORAS Special Battles Season 16
>Ranked #1, estimated usage: 92.31%
>Data for Kyogre in ORAS Special Battles Season 16
>Ranked #2, estimated usage: 62.45%
So much better when you add the entire japanese player to the western player base.
>>26993062
>92.31%
Absolutely disgusting. VGC players will actually defend this.
>>26988127
>smeargle at 51%
the rest is passable, that's unforgivable.
>>26993838
You think people would miss out on Dark Void spam?
>>26993858
Smeargle has got to be the most disgusting piece of shit in VGC right now.
>Dark rng spam cancer
>moody cancer
>redirection + evasion cancerI fucking hate that my favourite design is tied to such dogshit cancer strategies.
>>26988731
comfyanon is keeps me warm when my heart is cold
>>26988607
Same guy here. My my bad that (You) was for another guy.
Ubers should be usage-based with a BL-Zero between OU and Ubers for banned stuff like Greninja. That way, Landorus can ascend to Ubers by usage and we won't have to fight the dumb thing as much. Also, it would mean more suspect tests for stuff that might drop, like Reshiram.
>>26995512
This is a good idea, ho-oh and can finally be in OU where it belongs and talonflame would go up to ubers with this system.
>>26995531
Lose a fire bird and gain another. The system works!
>>26995512
>>26995531
Landorus-T and Talonflame don't have enough usage in ubers to rise to ubers if it were usage based.
>>26995531
>Ho-oh
>Dropping by usage
In your dreams, lol. Currently S-Rank in Ubers with 20% usage in 7th place overall, best Xerneas counter in the whole game. No way it's gonna drop.
>>26995683
>>26995681
Once talonflame rises to ubers ho-oh would drop to OU soon after.
talonflame just does what ho-oh does but better thanks to the priority in gale wings.
>>26995707
You're already able to use Talonfalme in ubers, nobody does because Ho-oh exists. It has way better bulk (154 SpDef is huge when facing down Xern), regenerator and much higher Phys Attack (130 compared to 81). Then there's Sacred Fire, fantastic move, and the potential to run CM among other things.
>>26995749
You do know Gale Wings lets it use Roost as a priority move too, right?
Ho-oh is weighed down by lack of speed which Talonflame is not, it can also boost its stats (which ho-oh can not do).
In fact since Ho-oh runs so much investment into attack it neglects alot of its bulk, Talonflame doesn't give a shit and go full tank evs and still hit harder after a turn or two of set up.
Priority recovery is a huge fucking deal, m8.
Talonflame > Ho-oh
>>26987407
Wow, this post clearly shows this is not trolling... This is just a very "special" kid.
>>26995867
Special enough to know ho oh loses to shitmons like greninja while talonflame just uses priority to kill it
>>26995819
>Talonflame > Ho-oh
Probably why Ho-oh was on 20 out of the 64 ORAS UPL4 teams and Talon was on 0
>>26987637
>>26987645
Do you not know how VGC works? You can even have three fucking megas in your team if you want, but since you don't bring all 6 of your Pokemon, you can ignore them. Ray is more often than not, not mega evolved because of the Air Lock ability and it's still viable. A Japanese guy won a tournament with a team that had Mega Gengar (still incredibly viable without the mega), Mega Mawile and Mega Ray, for example.
The real reason people don't use it as much is because Xerneas/Groudon is a much stronger and safer core. Most of Ray's teams need a lot of prediction and mind games, so it's too risky if you don't know what you're doing.
But of course you wouldn't know that, you're just parroting what other shitters say and posting the same image of a stupidly old tournament over and over again.
>>26995819
Talonflame dies to +2 Xerneas because its bulk is shit. Get 2HKO by Moonblast. Ho-Oh doesn't. Ho-oh is better.
>>26996137
To add to this: a lot of it's strength comes from single target moves, much like M-Kang, so it can't quickly wipe the field and always has the risk of wasting a turn attacking into a protect.
Where as Kyogre has tremendously strong Water Spouts and Origin Pulses, Groudon has Eruption and Precicpice Blades, and even Xerneas has it's Geo boosted Dazzling Gleams. All very strong spread attack options which help them get tonnes of damage on the board with pretty decent effiency.
>>26987428
If we're allowed to post teams from early meta tournaments, then I'm allowed to post this.
>>26987428
>>26996454
And this.
>>26995819
I see autism is well and alive on this board
>>26996471
So teams before the Meta has been found out? I'm pretty sure Lando didn't have 30% usage until it was found to be so good.
>>26996882
Not really. Big 6 has been a thing since January, but it doesn't mean it has always dominated.
