Why is Blaziken still Uber?
It's has a mediocre speed when unboosted, has only above average offenses, weak defenses, and, unlike Greninja, predictable coverage(rockslide, thunderpunch, earthquake, brave bird, knock off. That's pretty much it).
It can't even Baton Pass anymore because of that abysmal clause.
It would be a fantastic wallbreaker OU, destroying things like Mega Sableye, Amoongus, Kyurem-Black, Jirachi, and mixed defense magic guard Clefable.
This is balanced by the fact that several major OU Pokémon either wall it or annihilate it even when boosted:
>Mega Altaria
>Mega Slowbro(mein stall)
>Landorus-T
>Garchomp (tfw tanking Flare Blitz with rocky helmet)
>Alomamola (muh precious stall is saved)
>Rocky Helmet defensive Gastrodon
>Dragonite used Extreme Speed
>Unaware Defensive Clefable
>Mega Pinsir used quick attack
>Jellicent
>>>>> Brave Bird the Pokémon
I mean, why not just bring "BLAZE"ken down to UU/Bl2?
Smogon really dropped the ball.
>>26904007
It was voted out.
It will probably drop in gen 7, though. Its Mega, too.
N-no complex bans
>>26904007
>I mean, why not just bring "BLAZE"ken down to UU/Bl2?
Because then they'd have to do that every Pokemon, and it's not worth doing for Blaziken as it's a complete shitmon without Speed Boost, and no one would use it anyway
Pokemon are banned based on their optimal moveset/ability; if Speed Boost Blaziken is broken, then Blaziken is broken, end of story
>>26904007
It's in Uber for the same reason Greninja is in Uber:
It is simply too good for OU.
Most Ubers can either annihilate lesser tiered mons or even be potential threats to many full teams. Granted, the power creep is real, and both Gren and Blaze have suffered in their tiers because of it, but only S/M will tell if there will be enough potential metachangers to actually bring those 2 back to OU. As it stands they both deserve to be there.
>>26904058
Linking tiers to abilities rather than species or introducing a point buy system would make this less of an issue.
The latter option would need lots of balancing and has been unsuccessfully tried at some other simulator, though its failure might be more due to the stuff that already existed.
>>26904091
>Because then they'd have to do that every Pokemon
They really don't. They have complex bans on movesets all the time, with the crown beasts even needing to be shiny and rash nature. They could do it for one ability.
>>26904097
It really isn't.
>Greninja can cover all of its weaknesses.
Blaziken can't.
>Greninja has a plethora of coverage that makes it highly unpredictable getting STAB on each
Blaziken has the four moves listed
>Greninja breaks tons of speed tiers
Base 80
>Greninja has no viable counters
Everything listed as an answer to blaziken is at least A Rank if not the most used Pokémon in the meta
>>26904110
>introducing a point buy system
PokeBattle tried this, it failed
People just slapped as many broken mons as they could on their teams and used the rest of their points on filler
>>26904143
>Mega Alt
Shit in the current meta, offensive alt takes 75% dmg from +2 hi jump kick, OHKO after rocks
>Slowbro
Counter, true
>Landorus
Chance to die after rocks at +1
>Garchomp
hi jummp kills at +2
>Alomomola
dead at +2
>Gastrodon
survives
Talonflame, Pinsir and Azu (whihc you forgot to mention) kill it, but still, it can EASILY sweep teams after a single turn of setup.
>Dnite
yes
>clef
Unaware is shit, playing it for blaziken alone is a travesty
>>26904153
Didn't remember the name, but that was the one. You'd have to limit both an individual mon's max points as well as those of the entire team.
Though yeah, it would require a lot of balancing.
>>26904143
Blaziken's awful speed is compensated by the fact that anyone with a brain will go for a 1st turn protect, which means it's open for a heavy hitting attack, and if properly predicted, maybe even a swords dance that can even guarantee a clean sweep. It hits incredibly hard with a SD boost even if the opponent has type resistances. Even the lowliest Ubers are Gods in OU.
>>26904007
>It would be a fantastic wallbreaker OU, destroying things like Mega Sableye, Amoongus, Kyurem-Black, Jirachi, and mixed defense magic guard Clefable.
That's why.
>>26904242
>Blaziken's awful speed is compensated by the fact that anyone with a brain will go for a 1st turn protect
And anyone else with a brain will use that protect for a free switch into their counter.
>>26904007
I'm not sure what you mean. I baton pass all the time smogonfag.
>>26904007
I'll keep it short. Blaziken requires much more attention and maintenance to stop than most existing Pokemon, and most people simply can't keep up.
>>26904293
Doesn't matter, he still got a Speed Boost, and if he predicted your switch and used Swords Dance, your "counter" is fucked
>>26904589
>if the opponent predicts my prediction and wins because of that, that isn't fair
>therefore we need a ban
>>26904523
You should use Mega Kan or Salamence in Battle Spot fämaläm.
>>26904208
> unaware clef is shit
Kek
>>26904707
honestly magic guard is much better in 90% of cases, Quagsire's a much better Unaware user
and Blaziken would absolutely destroy offense, fatter builds might be able to deal with it, but I can't see it not being centralizing as hell
1100 the thread
>>26904589
>what is priority
>>26904730
Not really. Depending on the spread/moves, it can check, cripple, and even set up on:
Gyarados (m)
Thundurus
Heracross (m)
Charizard (m)
Alakazam (m)
Latias/Latios
Altaria
Gliscor
Sableye (m)
Serperior
Slowbro (m)
Manaphy
And a bunch of other shit. Additionally, it has heal bell, thunderwave, and calm mind. It doesn't just sit there like quagsire. They're completely different.
>>26904741
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 174-205 (58.5 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 187-222 (62.9 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 175-207 (48.7 - 57.6%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 190-224 (52.9 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Nice counter senpai
>>26904812
>adamant talonflame @expert belt brave bird vs literally any offensive blaziken set - guaranteed ohko
you tried bud
>>26904982
>>26904812
252 Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 380-450 (126.2 - 149.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here unless you literally do not understand how priority works.
*unsheathes protect*
>>26905319
I'm saying Talonflame isn't a counter, because it cannot safely switch in.
>>26905853
It doesn't need to survive two hits, since it has priority on turn 2 and can OHKO.
>>26905915
Regardless of whether it survives, it's still taken a shit-ton of damage
It might KO Blaziken, but if it's taken that much damage, then it's failed at countering it; it's merely checked it
>>26904153
>Rayquaza
>Groudon
>Kyogre
>Weedle
>Weedle
>Weedle
>Alomomola in OU
what the fuck? is this some new hot meme?
>>26904732
kek
>>26906014
Alomomola was always underrated.
Even in gen 5.
>>26906063
Alomomola is not OU.
>>26906081
No, but it is good enough to be used in OU.
>>26904805
>Gyarados (m)
>Heracross (m)
>Charizard (m)
>Alakazam (m)
>Sableye (m)
>Slowbro (m)
Fuck off with your shit gender, those can be female too. Fucking retarded.
>>26906095
Triggered tumblrite?
>>26904091
Listen to this faggot talking all matter-of-factly. All of this shit is just opinions, dawg.
>>26906095
>female starters
I literally threw up.
>>26906095
Is this a real post?
>>26906014
>>26906063
>>26906081
>>26906093
See
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-ou-viability-ranking-thread-v5-see-page-16-post-383.3571990/
>>26906095
what
>>26904007
I don't understand how it's broken, can someone explain?
>>26905915
>switch in Talonflame
>rock damage shaves off half of it's HP
>Blaziken takes the rest
>>26906192
All good offensive mons are broken. Only stall mons aren't broken. According to Smogon.
>>26906014
It's viable in OU, and it should at least be UU, as it's completely superior to Vaporeon
>>26905285
>>26906213
>you will always have rocks up literally every second of every battle and especially when a talonflame tries to switch into your blaziken on the turn it uses an offensive move so it conveniently gets one-shot by a move that would never OHKO it otherwise
you are literally triple digit elo my dudes
>>26906095
kek
>>26904143
>>Greninja breaks tons of speed tiers
>Base 80
Effective base 120, friend.
>>26904007
also baton pass banned
he would be perfectly fine in this meta
>>26904208
ummm
Latios/M-Latias??
The fuck is he going to do to them, rocks?
>>26904208
>playing it for blaziken alone is a travesty
>not running a full team of shitty niche counters to common metagame pokemon like smogon wants you to
>>26906095
please be bait
please keep /co/mblr cancer contained to /co/mblr
>>26910680
It's called a joke you subhuman.
>>26906095
>tfw I always make sure my cool Pokemon are male
Am I sexist?
If you want better insight go check the boards for when Blaziken was banned. The power level of that meta was enormously higher than it is now is the primary thing to keep in mind, so any arguments then are worth double now (other than severe lack of checks since ORAS gave us a little help that, but its overall lack of counters still stands). I'll give a general idea tho.
Blaziken's big issue is that, bar Slowbro, he can just muscle through all his counters anyways, and even Slowbro isn't unbreakable. He's not trapper weak, and with rocks or spikes he just can straight 1 shot teams. He's difficult to revenge since he's really not vulnerable to any priority except BIRDE and Pinsir, and outspeeds scarfers quite easily. SD was the "common" set, but at higher Elo you saw Baton Pass being the dominant set instead, teams hyper adapted to handle Blaziken would crumble as suddenly he passed that speed to a threat that could switch in to your counter and take it out, and still have Blaziken in the back to clean. Even drypassing on the switch to gain momentum on your Blaziken counter was a win for the Blaziken user.
There's actually some consideration right now for straight banning Baton Pass since it's created so many issues, or limiting Baton Pass to Drypass (effectively deleting it from Blaziken due to how this would be implemented), which in another world might've lead to a Blaziken retry. But the Smogon we have now didn't even let Landorus or Hoopa stay in OU, who were both arguably much lesser offensive threats than even passless Blaziken, so it's not going to happen.
I'm not sure what else can be said. He's not that horrid to deal with at low elo since people just yolo hit swords dance and die, but good players basically run the meta over when it's around.
>>26904007
Because smogon is a lazy piece of shit.
I play smogon, and I am decently good in the ladder, usually hitting top 10 every now and then, but I fucking despise how lazy they are.
Just ban speed boost/protein from Blaziken/Greninja.
The community is managed by a bunch of man-childs, so it's to be expected.
>>26911068
>Blaziken's big issue is that, bar Slowbro, he can just muscle through all his counters anyways, and even Slowbro isn't unbreakable
Blaziken gets walled by Altaria (Both base and Mega) unless it runs some gimmicky coverage that likely isn't worth it
>>26904007
>being a smogon sheep
>>26911120
If Blaziken got brought down, it'd be because Baton Pass is gone, so given the "free" slot you'd run some arbitrary coverage move for sure since SD is high risk, low reward. Shadow Claw can (barely) make Slowbro a risky check, Stone Edge 1-shots talonflame, pinsir, and non-mega altaria on their way in, while Brave Bird gives you enormous raw power that shreds all of the above, albeit less than their personal weaknesses (except pinsir obv). Brave Birds straight on Mega or HJK -> Brave Bird if it comes in non mega kills after rocks, leaving even defensive Altaria powerless to stop it on good predictions. Blaziken becomes easier to revenge at this point, but it doesn't really stop someone from switching it out, bringing it back in and getting a 2 for 1 by the end of the game. And that's when you're using one of Blaziken's best counters.
