>b-but it makes the games too easy!! it's CASUALIZED!!
Pokemon has always been easy. The only relatively challenging Pokemon game was Platinum (and maybe Emerald but only the BF). Just because it's a little easier doesn't mean it's suddenly a shit serious. There are plenty of 3DS JRPGs that have actual difficulty (Eterna Odyssey, Fire Emblem, Bravely Default/Second, Monster Hunter, etc.) Pokemon has literally never been about difficulty.
The reason the Exp. Share is such a great thing is because it COMPLETELY eliminates what was previously the most tedious, boring, annoying thing in the whole series--GRINDING. Let's be honest, how many of you actually enjoyed grinding against wild pokemon for who knows how long just so you could get a new teammate to match the levels of the team you already have, or so you could get your whole team to an appropriate level to be able to beat the next gym or the E4? Was that ever really FUN?
I sincerely hope that Sun/Moon keeps the Exp. Share because I never want to grind again. And don't give me that bullshit "grinding is part of the challenge!!" no it isn't, there's a difference between tedium and actual challenge.
Finally, someone on this cancerous board gets it!
>>26903053
If they really cared about making X and Y a good game why doesn't you rival have a full moveset, where only RB was plagued by this, when there's like 100x bigger budget and countless staff members
youre special for having that opinion anon
>>26903053
>MUH CASUALIZATION!
>MUH CHALLENGE
Honestly, OP, if people wanted to use the logic you presented as the basis of what is and isn't a challenge, then we would be making progress on what is actually difficult about Pokemon.
Instead, we have a bunch of edgelords who think that they need to endlessly grind to beat something and call it some sort of blatant achievement.
When something becomes a grind, there is no challenge to it.
I mean, jesus fucking christ, look at World of Warcraft. PVE enough (grinding) and you'll have enough gear to make everything PVE-related to be beaten. By the time you HAVE that gear, the encounters are moot since you'll have them all memorized by then.
And then you just go RIGHT back to grinding, with no way to make it tolerable in the slightest, because there is no WoW equivalent to the X/Y EXP Share.
>>26903053
The Exp.Share is great.It helped me fill a huge portion of the Hoenn Pokedex,just by playing through the main story.(Some of my party members were late-game pokemon so I just caught all pokemon in each area and placed it at the back of the party,until they evolve)
By the time I had to battle Kyogre,I already had filled 70-80% of the Hoenn Dex.
I'm not into grinding
I always go the gyms with a lower level team
>>26903053
you dont have to grind you fucking baddie
just abuse potions and X items if you're underleveled
I like that you can turn it off at least
And pokemon is as hard as you make it, that freedom is whats so great about it
>>26903053
>b-but you had to grind before!
You never had to grind unless you were bad at the game, retard. Especially in 5th gen where the game is DESIGNED around making weaker Pokemon level up extremely fast. The new exp share is a terrible design.
Gens 2-5 Exp. Share > Gen 6 Exp. Share > Gen 1 Exp. Share
It is great, but you don't seem to understand why it's really great.
>>26903053
I love it when people go on about how the series was always easy and then in the same post complain about how they needed to grind just to beat a gym in previous games.
>>26903587
Grinding ≠ challenging
>>26903155
THIS.
SO THIS.
I have been playing the game since blue was first released, and I'm sorry to say, but grinding was the most godawful point of the whole series. The grinding was so bad in X, I almost chucked my cart. out the window.
If you want to waste your time grinding - go find yourself a fucking mmo. I want to play a GAME, not work for entertainment.
>>26903053
I lliked it because I had a chance to train many new mons in game.
>>26903651
>Grinding
>In X
>What are Furisodes with 2-3 audinos
>WHat is Multiply exp power
Personably, I love grinding. It's so satisfying to level up and work out strategies on shitmons. Maybe I'm just a faggot but I like it.
>>26903053
What others have said: You literally never had to grind before. I often play through past titles using new Pokemon after each gym, effectively restarting by catching new wild Pokemon, and I still never have to grind.
Your point would be valid if grinding were an issue before. But it wasn't, and the exp share's change was an unnecessary and even harmful addition.
>>26903622
But that's the thing, nobody's FORCING you to grind. If you have to grind, that means the gym is CHALLENGING enough to the point where it's forcing you to level up your Pokemon. There's a reason why Falkner is one of the weakest leveled Gym Leaders in the entire series yet Red, in the same game, is one of the highest.
>>26903721
>Your point would be valid if grinding were an issue before.
Johto says hi
>>26903053
Do you know what would fix (what I think is) everyone's issue with it?
GIVE IT OUT AT POSTGAME, not after the first gym.
game needs better AI and less % cheating
>>26903736
Shitter detected
>>26903736
>Being this bad at a kid's game
Just bring an ice type move for Lance. If you had trouble with the gyms the only advice I have for you is to put the game down. If my little sister can beat Lance without abusing items and grinding, you should be able to.
>>26903746
The best answer is to have difficulty levels in the game, so people can determine how they want to play on their own.
But that's neither here nor there. I like this new method - it lets people who want to get into competitive a way to do so without having to waste several days (in non-stop terms of hours) just to get their team up to spec.
>>26903733
>If you have to grind, that means the gym is CHALLENGING
no, it just means you're not a high enough level to even stand a chance, because once you're done grinding the gym will be easy. all you really need for any gym is one pokemon that has a move that's super-effective against all of the gym leader's pokemon.
>>26903721
>You literally never had to grind before.
bulllshit.
>>26903677
Sorry - misspoke - I meant in black/white. I was commenting to two posts at once and got lost in the conversations.
And yes: it is really, REALLY bad how you need a level 73 just to be able to survive the final four, the champion AND deal with Reshiram/Zekrom AND then deal with getting rid of N. It was an ordeal, rather than a fun game, because asshats that like grinding wanted the gameplay extended.
Well, guess what? Ihave more hours into AS then I do black, because I enjoyed the game more - especially with the hours of just wonder trading to see what kind of shit would come down the pipeline.
>>26903805
>no, it just means you're not a high enough level to even stand a chance
No such thing unless you skipped a bunch of trainers on purpose.
The fact that you think the only way to beat a gym is "hurr use super effective move" shows how braindead you are.
>>26903832
DESU It IS the easiest way to defeat a gym. You get a pokemon with STAB 80/100 or 90/100 damage-inducing moves, and you can wall them without them even taking a single drop of hyper potion.
>>26903053
Even if this is true the problem reamain they never balanced it gameplay. Gym Leaders and rivals should have been given more mon to compensate
>>26903832
>No such thing unless you skipped a bunch of trainers on purpose.
not true. you can battle every trainer in HGSS and still be underleveled when you reach various gym leaders (ASSUMING you are using a full team of six and not just blowing through the game with your starter which I would assume only kids do).
>The fact that you think the only way to beat a gym is "hurr use super effective move"
I didn't say it was the only way, I said it was "all you need". learn to read.
>>26903746
You know what would fix everyone's issue with it? If they turned it off.
>>26903736
I never had to grind in HG. Don't know what you were doing wrong, but it must have been something.
>>26903756
better AI is something I don't see people demanding that often. I'm playing X with a bird only team and a rhydon outsped my swanna, just to use Hammer Arm against it. in Pokemon AI is simply made to make you win.
and I get it. It is made for children. But young adults are playing it as well, and GF should know it by now
>>26903053
I played with the exp share off and didn't have to grind once.
If you have ever had to grind in Pokemon then are complete and utter fucking shit at anything.
>"Oh no, I can't beat this boss who just so happens to use Pokemon that all have the same exact weakness"
The exp share is bad because it overlevels you to fuck. If you use to exp share every member of your team will be around 12 levels higher than the strongest Pokemon in the Elite Four by the time you get there.
>>26903866
>ASSUMING
Only retards train 6 Pokemon from first patch of grass.
Honestly, my problem with older pokemon games is the feeling of being underleveled if you use an entire team. The Exp Share takes things too far in the other direction though, you can have an overleveled starter that blasts through everything, while still having a full team that won't slouch around.
I just miss experience share being just one other pokemon only.
>>26903910
if you are interested in beating the game, then yeah, you dont need to grind. jesus, they give you a whole area of ground pokémon just before you face an electric gym.
but if you want to stroll around with your pokebros, then you'll have to grind eventually. unless I grind, my farfetch'd is just useless against pretty much everything.
>>26903053
IT is a great thing, but they should have balanced the game around it. It's not like it's hard to do anyway.
>>26903944
The problem I can see is making the wonder trade available too early. I was tempted to use a level 70 charizard I got from WT to basically teabag evryon I came up agains. It's bad enough I was assraping everything I went against with my swampert....
I seriously wanted to say a couple times when using surf with my Swampert:
Swampert: use Assrape <SPLOOSH>
DESU I think this would have been fun to do IF I took public transport....
>>26903827
>And yes: it is really, REALLY bad how you need a level 73 just to be able to survive the final four, the champion AND deal with Reshiram/Zekrom AND then deal with getting rid of N. It was an ordeal, rather than a fun game, because asshats that like grinding wanted the gameplay extended.
That doesn't sound like a grinding problem. You're just retarded. I beat BW's E4 when my team was around level 42-45. I did have a team that was talored made (by accident) to slap the E4's shit in tho, but still as long as you have a 3rd grade education level, you can beat any E4 in any Pokemon game (except maybe barring ROMhacks) being 10-15 levels lower.
>>26903805
You realize that even if you do have to grind, which you don't, you can choose when to stop grinding? This is such a retarded argument. WoW isn't a perfect parallel because raids or whatever you're bitching about actually have level prerequisites. Pokemon doesn't, which means you AREN'T forced to grind. And if you say you are forced by difficulty to do so, you can grind as much or as little as you want. You do NOT have to grind until your team is five levels higher than the gym leader's ace.
>>26903827
I'm very curious to hear what your team was. I have played through Black version eight times with a 100% different team each time. I have never had to grind, I have never actively EV trained, I have never used Reshiram on my team, and I've never had a Pokemon above level 54 or so by the time I fight Ghetsis.
>>26903651
>"This"
>"So this"
>>26903746
>>26903869
The real solution is to only include the gen VI EXP share is an all new "easy modo" so that people who use it will forever be reminded of how bad they are at a children's game.
>>26904026
Yeah Scrafty really fucks that place up
>>26903827
>And yes: it is really, REALLY bad how you need a level 73 just to be able to survive the final four, the champion AND deal with Reshiram/Zekrom AND then deal with getting rid of N.
Bait? I have never seen someone admit that they are this shit. Ghetsis is the only real challenge here and he's 20 LEVELS LOWER THAN YOU in your situation.
>>26903827
You just suck at Pokemon anon
>>26904026
It IS a grinding problem, because you have the final four, the champion, then you have Na dns HIs group then you have to fight his sub-bos after him and.. Jesus christ, that was just a long, tedious slog that, because of lack of fucking breaks to get my moves back up, I was wondering IF I COULD EVER REPLENISH MY MOVES.
Jesus, I was afraid I was going to have to fucking struggle my pokemon to victory!
And THAT is not good planning on GF's side!
>>26903053
THANK. YOU.
>>26904291
>IF I COULD EVER REPLENISH MY MOVES.
yeah, you are retarded. Right after you defeat the last E4 member, you can teleport outside of the castle to heal, to switch your team to do whatever. Then after you catch the easily catchable dragon eith a 45 capture rate, N heals you right after the battle, then AFTER THAT, you get healed again before you fight Ghetsis.
You're just bad at video games, and that is not gamefreak's fault.
>>26904192
No, I just really, REALLY hate having to go through like thirty fucking trainer battles in a row. THAT IS FUCKING GRINDING IN AND OF ITSELF. What does that add up to? fucking grinding that is not necessary! None of the other games make you suffer through that many battles! NONE!
Again: I know how to play the game but jesus christ! Stop calling a fucking gauntlet of combatants anything but fucking tedious!
>>26903053
Good opinion desu. I had it turned on for about half of the game, then I turned it off for the last half. It helps you set up a good team early on as well as fill out the pokedex
>>26904162
>taking away easy post game leveling
Please no. I turned it off for the main game but post game it's a godsend with how fast I can level multiple new mon up to par.
I will never understand why everyone makes such a big deal out of this anyway, it's not like you're forced to use it and I honestly couldn't care less if it casualizes the game for kids or not, it doesn't affect me if Masuda thinks that all kids are retards.
>>26903053
Preach it brother!!!
>>26904310
Anon you fight the elite 4
Then you get to heal
Then you fight box legendary
Then you heal then it's N/ghetsis 2 fucking trainers
>>26903053
I'm fine with Exp Share for those reasons. Though it doesn't help most trainers have shit pokemon as you play through the game.
Why ever would someone have a fully evolved pokemon with only three moves? Not to mention how situational or pointless those moves sometimes are.
Also can GF stop with the whole six magikarp fisherman npcs? Or at least surprise me with the last one sent out actually has good stats/not just splash.
>>26904579
>fully evolved pokemon with only three moves?
example?
>>26904579
But all they do is fish and they use old rods so all they get is Magikarp, it makes sense! Ideally they would have 5 Magikarp and a Gyarados because they must win at least a few times and be able to level up their catches before you get to them
Postgame it's fine.
What grinds my gears is that they removed scaling Exp, because training up a new member is a fucking pain in the ass. I really don't want to use the ExpAll, because it would break the game, and so I'm back to slow-ass oldschool grinding.
>>26904692
Going to respond to myself here because how great would it be if when you beat a Fisherman he said something like "I used all my POTIONs after I beat that last trainer! Having a team of MAGIKARP can be a real STRUGGLE!"
>>26904623
Your final rival battle with Calem/Serena
Or Teirno
Not to mention npcs
>>26903053
>Pokemon has always been easy
And I would agree. I also agree that grinding doesn't make a game any hard, just tedious.
But my problem with Gen 6's EXP Mechanic is that the games aren't balanced around this level wise. It's so easy to overlevel your Pokemon through normal play, it doesn't make the games just easy, it makes the experience unfair in favor of the player. There is little to no satisfaction for me when I beat the Champion with a Level 68 Pokemon with a Level 79 Pokemon.
Like I said, the main series Pokemon games have always been easy. But at least the older games were fair level wise (most of the older Pokemon games at least). I think a good level balance is a basic essential to any RPG.
I think the best solution for future games would be to keep Gen 6's current EXP Mechanics as it does reduce the grind and makes things such as Dex Completion easier. But make the games balanced around these new EXP Mechanics. When my Pokemon are Level 40 through normal play when I have to fight a Gym Leader (for example), the Gym Leader should also have his/her Pokemon around Level 40.
Oh, and before any of you say "turn the EXP Share off". First up, I did and it only helped a little bit as I still found myself struggling to keep my Pokemon at reasonable levels. Secondly, when I have to purposefully miss out on EXP (by turning off the EXP Share which the games recommend you to use btw) in order to have the slightest chance of having a fair experience, I'd argue that isn't very good game design leveling wise.
That's my viewpoint on it though.
I never got angry at it since it's more or less optional. Great for horde training desu.
>>26904910
I appreciate your sentiment and mostly agree with you. While replaying games pre-gen V I've had dissapointments: catching new 'mons and including them in your team is tedious. The time you have to put in to level them up to par with the rest of your team is long and not fun. I took pleasure in the new exp. all; it enabled me to use more 'mons simultianiously than in games past, while not forcing me to grind to do so. I suppose there are multiple ways to play the games; the less 'mons you capture the less you need the exp, if you want to catch many and try them out you need more exp. Past games made it hard to get much exp (HGSS), XY alleviated that issue. My two cents. (sorry 'bout my spelling, non-native and non-sober)
>>26903053
I wouldn't mind keeping it so I don't have to keep switching my pokemon out to keep their levels close together but I think the experience you get should be decreased a little and have the NPCs and especially Gym leaders employ some actual tactics.
>>26903053
I was so fucking happy when i picked the series back up to find the new exp share. I started playing as a child during gen 3 and my concept of a team was a level 100 charizard and whatever legendaries I had on hand. Now that grinding isn't boring as shit, and the better community experience, you know connectivity whatever you want to call it, I've made better dex progress than I ever could playing fire red or sapphire solo. So yes, i agree completely with 'tedium isnt challenge' idea.
Exp share is not the problem, the underleveled trainers are.
EXP. Share is helping me complete the PokeDex. Something I never do in Pokemon games because of how long training them all takes.
I think that was the purpose of it; Game Freak understands just how many Pokemon there are now and what that implies. For those who want to complete the PokeDex/raise a lot of Pokemon, it saves an invaluable amount of time.
GEN 7 BRINGS BACK GEN 5 EXPERIENCE
OMG
I used exp share and I thought some parts of the game were hard
Granted the Elite 4 and Lysandere were easy as shit
But there were times in the game I was stuck
Most noticeable the second gym against tyrunt and Amaura
Keep in my my team consisted of Quilladin, ivysaur, pidgeotto, flabebe, vivillion and the Steelix you can trade but I still had a hard time
>>26905493
This
Exp share was never the problem
People just use it as an excuse am because they think that's why the game was too easy
But no
The game itself had under leveled trainers with maximum 3 Pokemon if it wasn't elite 4
Granted 3 Pokemon would be fine too except,again, they were under leveled
>>26905604
>Exp share was never the problem
So you've never used it in Gen 1?
>>26903053
>the gen 6 Exp. Share is a great thing
No it isn't, and in your depths you know that even if you are acting like a delusional faggot.
The only game you had to grind is pokémon red maybe, any other title in the series didn't require that, and often going to the league 5-10 level below only raised the difficulty. It's always been easy for grindfag like you that could say
>lawl i steamrolled all the npcs with my overlevelled mon
