>he thinks story isn't important in jrpgs
>>26815314
It's not, there's a reason why people call SMT the best jrpgs when they barely have any story
I imagine you are attacking people who say story doesn't matter in pokemon. Which, that case, I agree with you.
Gameplay is still the top priority though.
>He thinks story isn't important in Pokémon
>>26815314
Just because you use a pokemon image doesn't make it pokemon related, go to /v/.
>>26815314
Gameplay is most important in JRPGs.
Not that it matters, because Pokemon doesn't have much of either.
>>26815332
Pokemon isn't an RPG, it's just J.
I thought that too until I replayed BW and realised a big part of why they're my favourite games is because of its story.
>>26815367
Pokémon is a role-playing game.
>>26815323
Who's saying that? All I hear is that it's garbage.
>>26815501
It's really not.
>>26815652
It is a role-playing game.
If I didn't want to play video games, I wouldn't be here.
>>26815652
You play the role of a trainer. It's a turn based RPG aeries where you command a team of six magical creatures.
It's pretty different from other JRPGs because it's so open-ended with what teams you can use, and it relies on the player becoming attached to their Pokémon while other RPGs rely on story and characters.
>>26815767
Call of Duty is a role playing game because you play the role of a soldier.
Literally every game that isnt some Tycoon game is an RPG because you have a body in the game.
This logic is fucking stupid, it's not an RPG.
>>26815703
No it isn't.
>>26815829
No anon, you play the role of an Amusement Park owner in Rollercoaster Tycoon, it's an RPG too. Everything is an RPG.
>>26815829
Alright, why isn't it an RPG? Even gameplay-wise?
>>26815767
It's a turn based strategy game with modest adventure elements. It's not an rpg.
>>26815838
Yes. It is
But the story IS to collect and battle, what's the problem?
>>26815703
I wish it was a role-playing game, then maybe they'd ease up on the intrusive story and roadblocks everywhere.
>>26815858
>I don't know what burden of proof is
You're making the claim that it's an RPG, just because you have no proof doesn't mean you can pretend that it's my job to make your case for you.
>Why isn't a pizza an ice cream cone?
>It just isn't, you can't really say why, it just isn't as a fact
If you want to imply that a Pizza is an Ice Cream, you have to make a case.
>>26815866
That describes any JRPG that doesn't have action elements. You can describe fucking Final Fantasy that way.
>>26815870
No.
>>26815892
(You) made the claim that it isn't.
>>26815907
Granted I haven't played any FF for awhile, last I checked there were no adventure elements to it. Instead it had RPG elements.
>>26815888
>But the story IS to collect and battle, what's the problem?
Oh, how I wish it still was.
See, collecting and battling, the very basis of Pokémon's being, aren't enough for children like OP.
So instead we get things like in BW2 where you're forced to go to Pokéstar Studios before you can continue on your journey.
This is "story" to these idiots.
Adventure means nothing, it's all about being some special snowflake chosen one and getting some god Pokémon.
>>26815920
OP implied the claim that it was.
We can go back and forth on this all day until you're able to actually think of an RPG element in pokemon. Protip, you can't.
>inb4 leveling and progression makes it an RPG
>>26815928
True, Pokemon has a lot of sidetracks, but they're all ultimately meaningless. Your purpose is clear, to collect and battle. Nothing else is of any consequence.
>>26815767
Not everything is an rpg, anon. Just because you play a character and fill a role doesn't make it role-playing. Legend of Zelda is pretty much the textbook example of an Adventure game, in fact the first one invented the genre, people still mislabel it as an RPG though. Its ok, it's a common mistake.
>>26815924
>>26815936
But what are RPG elements? The term is incredibly nebulous at this point. It's used to describe everything from the Witcher to Undertale to Final Fantasy. All that ties them together is a main quest and a character progression system.
>>26815955
Which is why it's fine to add optional things such as Amie and Pokéathlon, but an actual story and plotline directly get in the way of the main aspects of Pokémon, and that is where the problem lies.
>>26815960
Niether of those elements define an RPG, they are just common in them.
RPG elements include, but are not limited to; meaningful choices that either out you in the mindset of a character, or let you define that character, mental or visual immersion, and mechanics or other elements that rely on said immersion to function. Pokemon has none of these, these are aspects of Fallout which is an action-adventure RPG.
>>26816013
By that definition, no Final Fantasy game is an RPG.
>>26815913
Kill yourself.
>inb4
No.
And repeat.
Are you 6?
>>26815985
This problem has existed since the beginning. Why am I fighting this team of losers? This has nothing to do with me.
>>26816047
>but are not limited too
Also, FF has the "choices that put you into the mindset of the character" aspect down pat.
Really the biggest point here that I haven't made yet is that pokemon constantly reminds you that you're playing a game, and makes no attempt at any point to out you into any sort of role-playing mindset.
>>26816013
>mechanics that rely on immersion to function
How is rolling 1d20 to do an attack I didn't make myself immersion?
>>26816050
Nigga that as a cheeky back and forth yes-no, responding with equal thought as the posts I was reponded to had. Don't get your jimmies rustled so easily.
>>26816078
Dungeons and Dragons is a "Pen and Paper" game, that is a subgenres of "Collaborative Storytelling" and isn't meant to be an RPG. In the same sense that videogames are.
>>26816055
True, but it wasn't nearly as bad then as it was now.
It was at least "tolerable", and brought more battles.
>>26816070
>but are not limited to
yeah, as I fucking said, the term RPG is incredibly nebulous. It's literally down to opinion whether or not something is an RPG. You happen to have a retardedly narrow personal definition that mostly focuses on WRPGs.
>>26815314
Pokemon has had the same story for like 20 years and people still religiously play it. Can't be that important.
>>26816105
You say that RPG means whatever you want it to mean, I'm saying there are other titles you can give games and you shouldn't umbrella term "RPG". Pokemon is clearly an Adventure game, with an strong emphasis on Turn Based Strategy. Is Street Fighter an RPG because you can play as Ryu? No of course it isn't, and you shouldn't mislabel it as one.
Bullshit. I haven't yet seen the game where I can make up the power to make people spontaneously combust.
>>26816088
>D&D isn't meant to be an RPG
>>26815314
I value story in JRPGs, but I recognize GF's inability to tell a good story (even their best story, BW1, is still meh compared to other good JRPGs) and if a game has good gameplay I can forgive a bad story.
Shame Gen VI didn't have either and Gen VII probably won't as well.
>>26816330
It's not, it's collaborative storytelling. Literally ask anyone who's played more than 3.5
>>26815928
>implying battling and collecting is the sole reason everyone should play pokemon and everything else is of no importance
>implying people can't enjoy other aspects of pokemon
>implying pokeshit studio had anything remotely to do with a story and wasn't just some shitty forced introduction to a boring feature
>implying people who like story don't like adventure
>implying both adventure and story can't be done together
>>26816330
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storytelling_game
Just because a game has some RPG elements doesn't change what it is at its core.
>>26816639
>>26816623
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_%26_Dragons
>>26816628
>implying both adventure and story can't be done together
It can't. A huge part of the adventure is exploring the region.
Your shitty stories get in the way of that. It's a huge fucking nuisance.
>>26816820
Irrelevant, Gygax was a hack and the game has evolved so much since then.
>>26816846
>muh sandbox
You're a retard.
>>26815890
You mean the jrpg staples?
>>26816867
>My ability to sit around a table circlejerking about raping imaginary elves has evolved since then, therefor it is not an RPG. Wikipedia articles are objective fact when I link them, but wrong when you do it.
>>26816903
It's not wrong when you link it, but your link specifically talks about the original game that Gygax invented, my article talks about a more generalized and broader view of the genre. Your article is correct, but irrelevant.
>>26816070
>FF has the "choices that put you into the mindset of the character" aspect down pat.
And pokemon doesn't?
You do realise there's less choice in FF than there is in pokemon right?
>>26816923
No, pokemon really really doesn't. FF established a character, and leads you through their choices. The only time an "empty vessel" protagonist can be part of an RPG is when they give you the opportunity to define that character, which pokemon doesn't. The only reason you even have a "character" at all is to be a cursor on the screen for you to interact with thigs.
>>26816597
To be honest, what's stopping GF from hiring a good writer?
>>26816914
So in other words you're not only ignoring the game but what it designed as.
Look, any way you spin it you as the player are taking up a role of your choosing and are playing as that character aka role playing. Making an emphasis on the story doesn't change that base fact.
>>26816914
You stupid nigger. You said D&D isn't an RPG despite it always being first and foremost refered to as a "tabletop roll playing game". You're wrong. Get over it. Infact, RPGs as a video game genre more or less exist because of its influence.
I know you /v/ermin love to be contrarian at every fucking turn, but there's such a thing as objective fact.
kys senpai
>>26816967
Not every game with a character in it is an RPG anon, you have to accept that there's more to it than that.
>>26816980
>>26816639
>has RPG elements
>>26816941
>The only time an "empty vessel" protagonist can be part of an RPG is when they give you the opportunity to define that character
You idiot, not only are there choices the player can make in pokemon unlike FF there are a larger amount of variables toy as a player have control of such as your team and how it works on top of how you look in the new games.
It's a role playing game.
Is it me or are there more retards around here lately?
>>26816639
>The most popular modern storytelling games originated as a subgenre of role-playing games,
>subgenre
Holy shit, your own fucking link says you're wrong, dumblefuck.
>>26816985
There literally isn't, you take up a role and pretend to be that character. You are role playing, the game allows role play.
You can't play without role playing, that's what the game is centered around.
This is a simple concept.
>>26816846
Pokemon has never been completely open world to the point where you can go where you want whenever you want any time. You've always been restricted in someway. You can't decide to go straight to the pokemon league and ignore everything along the way. Instead, you're given specific areas that you can explore until you unlock the next specific portions, you've always been restricted in that sense. This is the case with most JRPGs, and story isn't the only reason they've been this way.
Just admit you can't sit through cutscenes without going full ADHD and hope GF finally gives you the option the skip them like most games do.
>>26815890
It is a role-playing game.
>>26815913
It's a role-playing game.
>>26815424
Yeah same here but I'm not sure I want every game to focus so heavily on story.
Pokemon doesnt need story both anime and games because Nobody cares
>>26817268
>He actually used "nobody cares" as an argument.
>>26817268
The anime might be tolerable if it had a story instead of continuing to repeat and then cut off the same arcs like it's been doing for 20 years.
>>26817203
It's a Turn-Based-Strategy Adventure game.
>>26817820
>strategy
So where is the map and the units I move on it?
>>26817829
You don't need a map to be a strategy game, alsorotation battles
>>26817053
No one said anything about open world. You're still exploring, even if in a (mostly) linear fashion.
"Story" is literally a roadblock in this linear adventure.
And one shouldn't have to have cutscenes at all, it's a video game.
You should be able to play it, not read it.
I don't know why this is so hard for you people to understand, nor do I know where people like you came from.
>>26817847
>You don't need a map to be a strategy game,
You literally do.
>>26817859
No you don't. You need one for Grand Strategy, which is a different and more specific subgenre, but you don't need one for a Strategy game.
>>26817854
How does you autism against 30 seconds of dialogue prove it's not an RPG, again?
>>26817874
Why are you trying to go off on a tangent? I've said nothing about whether or not Pokémon is an RPG.
>>26817882
Oh you're just autistic then.
Get a trip so we can filter you.
>>26817884
>we
This isn't your groupthink hugbox, faggot.
Filter those words, too, since you're incapable of arguing.
>>26817859
This is probably why you think Pokemon is an RPG. You think if you have units on a field doing battle that it's strategy, when you can have those things and have it have nothing to do with strategy, and you can have strategy without those things. You probably think any game where you swing a sword and there's a plot is an RPG too, when there is simply more too it than that.
>>26817934
You're not being specific at all my dude
>>26818068
I wasn't asked to be, bruh. I was responding to a three word post.
>>26816013
Teambuilding in pokemon fulfills all of those requirements you ninny.
>>26817895
>If I just call him a faggot, I'll win!
>>26817934
>If I just strawman out of my ass, I'll win!
lol no
>>26818381
Well, you literally don't need a map...
>>26815323
What's SMT?
>>26815367
retard
>>26818490
Nice one.
>>26817854
>I don't know why this is so hard for you people to understand
Oh, I understand alright. I understand that you've probably never played a decent JRPG outside of pokemon and you can't comprehend that a good story brings an extra layer of depth to all other aspects of a game. I understand that you consider story a "roadblock" because you're too autistic and/or adhd to sit through some short occasional cutscene. That instead of wanting to improve something, you'd rather remove it entirely because you can't imagine how it can be improved since, again, you haven't touched any JRPG outside of pokemon.
>he thinks story is important in ANY video game genre
I have a better question: why are you letting other people tell you what to do?
NOBODY HAS TIME FOR THAT GARBAGE! I CAN'T PLAY THE GAME IF IT'S NOT LETTING ME PLAY IT. GAMES ARE ONLY SUPPOSED TO BE SHORT LITTLE DIVERSIONS THAT YOU CAN DO IN A FEW MINUTES BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE TIME FOR ANYTHING ELSE! WORK WORK WORK. YOU WORK UNTIL YOU DIE. THAT IS WHAT SOCIETY IS. CHILDREN.
>>26815323
SMT always has a lot of story and it's always crazy convoluted. It just (typically) has larger stretches of time between story pieces. Of course, these are also games that require 100+ hour commitments just to beat the story
You need somewhat of a story to set up the gameplay, but the bare minimum of story is all you need. Such as, this guys my rival for whatever reason and so I'm gonna fight him throughout the game. Thats all you need, and then the entertainment part is how challenging that rival is, not whatever little story he has. Pokemon should try to keep the story bare minimum, the fun is in adventuring around the region.
Pokemon would actually be a lot better if they stopped forcing the same linear, recycled stories and focused on making a large, diverse, immersive world that you can explore how YOU want. That doesn't mean their shouldn't be any story, but stop making it so obvious. Give us characters with more depth, and locations that are actually exciting to adventure through.
>>26821401
In a lot of the best games I know, the player doesn't have a character, but EVERYTHING ELSE does. The NPCs, the enemies, even the locations themselves. Everything has a story that you can discover, or you can ignore it completely if you so desire.
>>26815314
After Gen 3 and Gen 5 I'd rather have no story at all. You know it's true.
