How the fuck do I build a team for competitive? I've been playing on showdown and I'm breddy gud with predictions, but my teambuilding skills are absolutely shitty, I can't get past 1500.
My autism doesnt let me look up some tourney winning team and use it
>>26793424
>My autism doesnt let me look up some tourney winning team and use it
This may not be in the spirit of the thread, but I'm going to go ahead and say that is the problem that should be focused on.
Rebuilding the wheel is a waste of your time.
/vp/ is the worst place you could ask this
the majority of the people here are sub-1200 if they play at all
also this >>26793441
>>26793441
I refuse to believe this
>>26793424
>My autism doesnt let me look up some tourney winning team and use it
No that's good, it's not autism. Don't be a shithead who just rips teams.
There are two ways to teambuild (or at least how I teambuild).
I. When starting a team, think of a mon you want to use. Maybe two. Then add mons that deal with their counters/answers. That should put your number to 3-4. Add a hazard remover and try to fit hazard setting on your roster. From 4-5, fill the rest with a stallbreaker and/or a cleric. Stallbreaking isn't necessarily hitting hard, but good coverage, the ability to trap, and Taunt + Recovery.
II. Build a team that deals with the meta. Hippowdon and Slowbro are good mons to keep in mind in this regard, considering Hippo deals with Volt-Turn and Slowbro is an answer to Keldeo, Mega Medi, Mega Char-X, and Excadrill among other things.
>>26793441
Don't perpetuate a shit meta.
>>26793509
Thanks, that's exactly the kind of help I needed
If you feel like elaborating your post please do so
>>26793535
Yeah sure, but do you have a particular direction you want me to take it, like do you have a mon in mind for the first teambuilding method? Otherwise I'm just rambling in all directions.
>>26793548
I feel like a team built around Mega medicham has the potential to win a lot, so lets take that for an example.
>>26793424
on a side note I hope that doesn't end up being popplio's shiny for real
>>26793509
How do you know which 'mon would fit in their role? For example, Mega Latios/Latias, would they be considered sweepers?
>>26793424
Disregard absolutely everything and watch the following video:
https://youtu.be/eEcfduVdTt4
>>26793561
Ok, so the key way of using big hitters like Mega Medi is with slow pivoting back into it to let it take as many shots as possible at the opponent's team.
Medi's weaknesses are Fairy, Flying, and Ghost.
The best Fairy answer in the meta is Jirachi, not Heatran. SpDef Jirachi with Iron Head, Wish, Protect, and U-Turn is the way to go, since it lets you pivot back into Medi.
For Flying, you can probably use Rotom-W, since it's also a Lando-T and Mega Scizor and Mega Pinsir answer on top of dealing with Talonflame. It has Volt Switch to pivot back into Medi.
Ghost is tricky. Gengar and Alakazam (Shadow Ball) are pretty annoying to switch into because of Focus Blast, but you can use a Mandibuzz to deal with them. You can probably run standard for now, and then invest a bit more in SpDef if need be. Mandibuzz with Foul Play or Knock Off, U-Turn, Defog, and Roost is the way to go. I use U-Turn Mandibuzz as one of my tanky pivots and it doesn't let me down. That takes care of your hazard remover too.
Now you should be a bit weak to Scarf Tyranitar since Rotom-W doesn't really resist it, so you can fill the last 2 slots offensively. But we should also take note of the fact that Medi, your main attacker so far, is walled by bulky Psychic types and Ghost types like Mega Sableye. Plus you have all that pivoting. So I'd recommend taking advantage of LO Gengar, since it's a devastating attacker and can stallbreak (just watch out for Pursuit trappers). LO Gengar with Shadow Ball, Focus Blast, Taunt, and Pain Split can beat nearly anything on stall. I think that's the way to go.
For the last slot, I guess I would say something that can set hazards. You also need an answer to Mega Charizard Y and the team in general still has holes you can tweak (like being vulnerable to Mega Lopunny), so I'd say offensive SR Garchomp for now.
>>26793666
>666
>video encouraging using stall, copypasting teams, and making fun of opponents
>youtuber even calls it just a shitpost video
>>26793695
Not the guy you are replying to, but bravo sir.
That's some quality stuff right there.
>>26793618
You look at their stats and movepools and how different items interact with them. Of course, different Pokemon can have multiple roles or just one role.
Mega Latios has a bloated Atk stat and a bloated SpA stat. It also has access to Dragon Dance and reliable recovery, and Calm Mind. The role that becomes most apparent is some kind of booster with recovery, maybe going mixed. Psychic + Dragon + Ground is the lineup for its physical presence. Draco or HP Fire as a mixed option is what else it has in store. I didn't mention CM because of Latias.
Mega Latias is more useful for CM because its 100 BST points were allocated without much wasted in Atk, mostly going to defenses, which is great for a setup sweeper. CM + Recovery + Stored Power is great. Or even using it as a fast wall is great. It walls monsters like Mega Charizard Y, LO Torn-T, Lando-I, and Specs Volcanion pretty easily.
>>26793695
>>26793781
I can't tell if these are ironic
Please tell me they're ironic
>>26793842
here comes 1900 anon to prove you're wrong
>>26793842
What are you on about?
>>26793842
Not that guy, but there is nothing wrong with his advice. Its for smogon, which might be the wrong meta, and I admit I know less about, but its soild basic team building still. I'd have suggested a t-wave user to support champ, but that's just preference. If you think your better, post what wrong with it or be forever considered a dumb fuck.
>>26794026
>to support champsuigining, poopieposter, or nurusu?
>>26793867
Long post incoming:
That guy just built a team for a different guy to use on the spot, like all it takes to build a team is 2 mins of thinking and some shitty logic. Then someone called that quality?
I'll go through it step by step to make it clear:
First, when building with medicham you want to mention ts movepool since it beats different things based off that. Is it thunderpunch, ice punch, dual priority?
You also want to take into account offensive synergy BEFORE defensive synergy, otherwise you get a shitty bulky team + nuke like the one that we just saw.
Jirachi is the best fairy answer? That's such a team specific thing, you can't just say that. Heatran's going to fit on some teams better than jirachi. I can at least sort of understand this though because it does beat gardevoir, which heatran can't reliably do.
Rotom-w + medicham is good, it's also possibly the most obvious pairing in OU.
Why would you ever, EVER, put mandibuzz of all things on an offensive team. This is especially bad when he's using medicham, which has amazing synergy with ttar and is a much better gengar check since it can trap it with pursuit.
Why does he mention the team being weak to scarftar? It kos nothing on the team, and has to make a 50/50 ever time it click a move. He then says put on gengar? Scarftar traps gengar, what the fuck? On top of that, that gengar set doesn't break stall effectively, considering a) against chansey it either gets pp stalled, or beats the chansey and is left on extremely low pp, and b) banded weavile and scarftar, the most common revenge killers on stall, can simply trap and kill it. On top of ALL of this, that set doesn't even beat the face of ou stall, mega sableye (252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 144+ SpD Mega Sableye: 121-144 (39.8 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO) Which also walls medicham (guess which mon walls this entire team?)
>>26794107
ridaz locked me for posting that pastebin LMOA
>>26794259
Why is garchomp the megazard Y counter now? 252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp in Sun: 180-212 (50.4 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. He honestly thought of this as a rocker before you thought of heatran?? Hell spdef hippowdon is a much better option since it takes away sun and nets you a guaranteed kill with stone edge if they solarbeam on the switch (well, as guaranteed as stone edge can get).
He's also failed to address the most dominant forces in the metagame, namely:
- the keldeo switch in is rotom-w or jirachi (hint: none of those reliably beat specs keld, the most common set). In fact, the only water resist on the whole team is rotom-w which is notoriously easy to wear down.
- as I mentioned before, mega sableye walls the entire team
- no reliable way of dealing with weavile (rotom-w is not reliable for that)
- too passive for an offensive team. You may think that volt switch and u-turn stop that, but revenge killing and clever double switching shut that down as soon as you get to a decent rank
Honestly though it's not the bad teambuilding that I'm amazed at. It's the fact that he gave the entire team in one go. That's not helpful at all, a player needs to make his own decisions and understand them if he wants to improve. You get better by making mistakes and realising what they are, not by being given a team (no matter how good it is) and being told "yeah use this, it's good because x and y".
>>26793856
I can't tell if this is ironic either, send help
>>26794259
Articulate explanation brother.
r8
>>26794259
The problem is you think I made a tournament-winning team on the spot. I just followed my process I mentioned for the part I.
>First, when building with medicham you want to mention ts movepool since it beats different things based off that. Is it thunderpunch, ice punch, dual priority?
I had in mind Ice Punch, since it's the most effective, but Thunder Punch is also great for hitting Slowbro. Rotom-W is on the team of course, and I'm not doing everything for the guy, just working with his suggestion of Medicham.
>Jirachi is the best fairy answer? That's such a team specific thing, you can't just say that. Heatran's going to fit on some teams better than jirachi. I can at least sort of understand this though because it does beat gardevoir, which heatran can't reliably do.
Yes, that's exactly why it's the best Fairy answer. Garde has to rely on Wisp to try and cripple it. Jirachi has reliable recovery and U-Turn. Sure Heatran can fit on other teams better, but you're arguing with the idea of fitting on a team at that point, not being the best Fairy switch-in which is what I said.
>Why would you ever, EVER, put mandibuzz of all things on an offensive team. This is especially bad when he's using medicham, which has amazing synergy with ttar and is a much better gengar check since it can trap it with pursuit.
I literally explained why. Focus Blast predicts ruin Ttar, and you're left with nothing to stop Gengar from having its way with the team. Mandibuzz takes anything but Dazzling Gleam which is a better gamble, AND has access to U-Turn to get back into Medi, on top of Defog utility. Plus, the out to Zam with Ttar becomes dodging a Focus Blast.
>Why does he mention the team being weak to scarftar? It kos nothing on the team, and has to make a 50/50 ever time it click a move.
Because the Dark resist is weak to Rock and vice-versa. I would've said the same thing about multiple Pokemon threatening the team but Ttar came to mind first.
To be cont.
>>26794259
Chansey can't touch Gengar, and gets worn down by Pain Split, or did you forget the massive difference in HP, even at full? You drag it down until Focus Blasts can kill.
Gengar was suggested because it acts like Mega Medi in being an enormous hitter. Ttar is never a 100% counter to it, only a check. M-Sab is usually max Def, which is what I had in mind when suggesting Gengar (and Gengar acts as a stallbreaker to further my original post). They're just examples.
>>26794277
>Why is garchomp the megazard Y counter now? 252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp in Sun: 180-212 (50.4 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. He honestly thought of this as a rocker before you thought of heatran??
I explained already that I wanted to round it out with offense, since I already gave 3 defensive mons. Garchomp comes in on any of Y's attacks and gets up Rocks or Edges/Outrages.
As for the rest, it's easy to criticize when you think I'm giving a perfect team, when I literally said it had holes and was just an example of the thought process. I gave the entire team in one go because I don't see anything wrong with giving thorough advice. You sound like you're saying to just leave him on his own, when I'm actually being active by suggesting options that make sense and show what kind of direction he needs to take. Of course learning your mistakes are a part of it, but I think you're overreaching when you put shit in my mouth like 'yeah use this, it's good because x and y', since it's showing team construction with examples and not the equivalent of giving him a free team.
>>26794259
>>26794277
Also I forgot to mention, I think you're a bit salty since you mistook someone calling it quality stuff as the same thing as a quality team when the team was impromptu.
People rarely post thorough insight into teambuilding like this, which probably surprised that person and he called the posts quality because of it.
>>26794417
I never assumed it was meant to be a tournament-winning team, I just assumed you meant it to be good in some capacity
Teambuilding is set specific. You can't omit sets when explaining a full team.
Like I said, sure it beats garde but going "medicham is weak to fairy, so I need a fairy resist" is a very one dimensional way of building. For instance, heatran could act as both a fairy resist, stealth rocker, and zard Y check. Sure it doesn't beat azumarill, but you have a rotom-w too. It doesn't reliably beat garde, but maybe your medicham is fake out bullet punch (who knows, you didn't state the set after all).
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 240 HP / 252+ SpD Mandibuzz: 152-179 (36.1 - 42.5%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Quite the contrary, ttar actually stops gengar from having its way with the team. Worst case scenario you can sac something and then get a guaranteed kill on it. The ironic thing is, you say mandibuzz is your defogger but the only thing weak to rocks is mandibuzz. In fact, half the team resist rocks and the other 2 levitate so they ignore all hazards except rocks (and aren't weak to rocks either)
Why did you mention scarftar being a problem, then put on gengar?
>>26794526
Ok, beating chansey with that set depends on a lot of mindgames so let's forget chansey altogether, you straight up lose to mega sableye (which will always be with chansey) so who cares.
ttar is a 100% check to gengar, and please check the facts before you make claims. Careful:252/0/112/0/144/0 is the most common mega sableye spread by far (which is what I calced). Even impish variants often run spdef.
garchomp comes in once, then can never some in again. meanwhile, zard Y teams will always have a spinner/defogger.
>>26794566
you're right, I did think he was calling the team quality. My bad. I appreciate that you're trying to help, but you're going about it the wrong way.
I think your team construction method is not helpful. That's the baseline. You can disagree with me or whatever, but in the end that guy will benefit more from just going on showdown, trying things out and asking good players questions than he would ever benefit from taking advice from people here.
>>26794368
pls respond
>>26794646
>I never assumed it was meant to be a tournament-winning team, I just assumed you meant it to be good in some capacity
Well yeah it's good in some capacity -- you can win games with it since it has some thought put into it, but it's not going to handle the big dogs on the high ladder with its various susceptibilities.
Your second and third points seem to contradict one another, since Heatran isn't a real answer to Garde or Y considering their sets, just a STAB deterrent.
But anyway, I simplified it to running good answers (ideally counters) to Medi's weaknesses because I was following my method from my original post. I don't see why I would get into convoluted blending which would throw off someone trying to get into teambuilding.
For your fourth point, who's getting up Rocks? Unless it's Clef, Mandibuzz can deal, which is part of the reason I suggested it, since it's secure. Bulky Ttar does in the 50s with Edge, but that can be Roosted off, with it only being 8 PP. And rocks aren't the only hazard in the game, but Mandibuzz having Defog is a bonus on top of it dealing with Gengar and Zam simultaneously.
Gengar's an example of a stallbreaker that takes advantage of a basis of pivots. Ttar is a problem, but so is Mega Lop. So is offensive Mega Scizor. So is Mega Charizard X. So is Weavile. I don't expect anyone to think this team is without flaws, just that it tries to revolve around helping Mega Medicham.
>Ok, beating chansey with that set depends on a lot of mindgames so let's forget chansey altogether
What? You just Taunt it and it can't touch you. Then can alternate between Pain Split and Shadow Ball if you sense a switch to Sab. If it's vs. SR Cleric Chansey, you don't even need to Taunt right away.
To be cont.
>>26794368
UU/10
>>26794646
>and please check the facts before you make claims. Careful:252/0/112/0/144/0 is the most common mega sableye spread by far (which is what I calced). Even impish variants often run spdef.
I know my facts.
| Spreads |
| Careful:252/0/112/0/144/0 14.832% |
| Impish:248/0/252/0/0/8 9.796% |
| Impish:248/0/252/0/8/0 8.035% |
| Impish:248/0/160/0/96/4 7.692% |
| Impish:248/0/80/0/180/0 7.335% |
| Impish:252/0/160/0/96/0 4.403% |
| Other 47.907% |
That Careful set on its own is seen a lot, but Impish is seen far more often. Even the first two results after the first sums to 17% > 14%, with negligible difference with the 8 EVs, making max def more prevalent.
>garchomp comes in once, then can never some in again. meanwhile, zard Y teams will always have a spinner/defogger.
Would you rather I said nothing for that slot? There aren't offensive answers for Mega Char-Y that can set Rocks, but comes in on (nearly) anything Y does, can kill it if it wanted to, and sets Rocks, which was just for team rounding out purposes.
>>26794667
Thanks, and I don't see it that way. /vp/ is sluggish in regard to competitive (especially Smogon) so giving them a walkthrough on team selection is appropriate. Again, it's not something to grab and go. Notice I said "for now" regarding the Garchomp since I wanted to see what OP replied with for it to be something we can actively work on, until he could eventually take that process or some semblance of the team that he liked and use it on Showdown. Like maybe he liked Jirachi + Medi, but wanted to use a cleric for T-Wave Clef that could double as a Sable answer (Sylveon/Clefable), etc. Trial and error would be good for him, yes, but people on Showdown are more grab-and-go, and advice is very narrow, considering they shit on most options until a good player shows they can work.
>>26794906
Better than I thought it would be.
>>26794868
the first point is talking about specifying your own sets, not your opponent's sets.
Teambuilding is difficult. Simplifying it is good and all, but not if it leads to a bad method in the future (make sure he knows that this is a simple way of building that won't produce great teams)
SD chomp, SD lando, taunt heatran and clefable are just a few examples of mons that can get rocks up on the mandibuzz switch. There are others but it depends on the mandi set. Switching mandibuzz into every potential rocker isn't a good idea either, as you're going to get it worn down doing that and still lose to gengar.
As for chansey mindgames, I'm not looking at chansey in a vacuum. If you're using gengar to break stall, you have to be prepared for mega sableye + chansey + skarm, not just one of those on its own.
>>26794957
Yes, please use more 1825 stats for a clearly low elo player. Even then, most of those are running spdef.
Who says your rocker and zard Y check has to be offensive? You've just given yourself an arbitrary restriction and made the team worse because of it.
As for your last part it depends on what rooms you're in. I agree that there aren't really any public rooms that are great for new players (competitive tutoring is an absolute joke), your best bet is finding a good player and pming him. Hell, you could even meet OP on PS and that would be more helpful.
>>26794368
What are their held items? EVs? Natures?
>>26795178
the best
>>26794957
Where do you get your data from?
>>26795200
http://www.smogon.com/stats/2016-05/
click moveset and then the tier you want. The numbers are weighting by elo.
>>26795060
>the first point is talking about specifying your own sets, not your opponent's sets.
It's not that big of a deal in this case. The team makeup indicates that Ice Punch is priority, since Rotom handles Slowbro and Jirachi handles Mega Diancie for example. Plus again, it's not like any of it is set in stone. More reason it's not some grab-and-go team.
>Teambuilding is difficult. Simplifying it is good and all, but not if it leads to a bad method in the future (make sure he knows that this is a simple way of building that won't produce great teams)
Yeah if he returns lol
I mean if the player doesn't see a Gengar or Zam on the opposing side, he can afford to be more loose with Mandi. Heatran is the one to really be cautious of among the ones you mentioned, but the momentum afforded by all the pivots grants the user the favor of pressuring the opponent out of such positions, and even if Rocks do go up, the team has a good number of Rock resists until it's suitable to get off a Defog.
>As for chansey mindgames, I'm not looking at chansey in a vacuum. If you're using gengar to break stall, you have to be prepared for mega sableye + chansey + skarm, not just one of those on its own.
Skarm pretty much has to be max Def to not let Mega Lop walk on the team, so I'm not really considering it. Chan is dead weight in front of Gengar, so Gengar's the one in the favorable position regardless. The most it loses is getting Taunted by Sab. If it's T-Wave Chansey, Rotom-W can also serve as something to pull at it.
>Yes, please use more 1825 stats for a clearly low elo player. Even then, most of those are running spdef.
What the fuck? He said he hit 1500, don't exaggerate to suit your stance. Impish with Max SpDef will take at least 40 from LO Gengar. None of these guys are running max. Gengar's the one in the favorable position.
It's not arbitrary, it's to remain balance because I don't want my example being semi-stall, which is off-putting.
And yea I agree
>>26793441
This is true for OU. You can do weird shit and win in UU or obviously ransoms or doubles. But in the bigs you pretty much just have to lock into the same old meta.
>>26795259
>What the fuck? He said he hit 1500, don't exaggerate to suit your stance.
I'm not exaggerating, 1500 is low for ou. There's even a weighting for it, which for some reason you didn't use.
| Spreads |
| Careful:252/0/112/0/144/0 16.889% |
| Bold:252/0/252/0/4/0 8.470% |
| Careful:248/8/0/0/252/0 6.900% |
| Calm:248/0/0/8/252/0 5.738% |
| Impish:252/0/160/0/96/0 3.168% |
| Impish:252/0/252/0/4/0 2.983% |
| Other 55.851% |
and "at least 40" isn't good enough, considering recover heals 50.
>Skarm pretty much has to be max Def to not let Mega Lop walk on the team, so I'm not really considering it. Chan is dead weight in front of Gengar, so Gengar's the one in the favorable position regardless. The most it loses is getting Taunted by Sab. If it's T-Wave Chansey, Rotom-W can also serve as something to pull at it.
huh??? What are you talking about here? I don't mean skarm beats gengar, it's just a mon that you're going to see on stall 9 times out of 10. And chansey isn't dead weight in front of gengar, because if it's in front of you the chances are you're not shadow balling, giving even impish 0 spdef mega sableye a free switch. Gengar then has to switch out, because it either gets ohko'd by knock off, or ko'd by foul play after life orb recoil. Hence, you're not beating shit.
>>26793695
Bad mentality. Do NOT build based on type weaknesses.
You can't just say you're gonna chuck in 3 Pokemon to deal with one's weakness. You need to find a core of 2 or 3 Pokemon, not use 4 Pokemon to start a team. You have no direction, you're making the team as you go. Is it gonna be offense?
Your Gengar that 'beats Stall' is walled by Sableye, is walled by Clefable, Gliscor, Scizor, pretty easily Pursuit killed which literally every Stall team has. It's pure shittery.
Your Sableye counter is nonexistent.
Your own Medicham counter is sacking and switching into Gengar or hoping you win a 50/50
Your one and only Clefable switchin is Pursuit weak and gets T-Waved.
Serperior counter : exact same
Thundurus, Volcanion, Manectric, Manaphy counter not there.
Most of these Pokemon 6-0 you with no trouble at all. Some, you have offensive checks to that are going to be extremely easily beaten down and can only check them of the sack.
All in all, shit team.
>>26795319
1500 isn't low for OU, it's middle ladder. 1400s is when you start seeing good teams until ~1650 onward, when good teams are accompanied by good players.
I don't use 1500 stats in general because of how misleading they can be, especially since the intent is to pass that. Calm Mind at 36% on the 1500 stats is an example, as I was comparing them (6.8% at 1825, 15% at 1695).
At least 40 is fine given all the momentum on the team, since chip damage is inevitable.
Bringing up Skarm was irrelevant then.
>because if it's in front of you the chances are you're not shadow balling
Well that's the point, to Shadow Ball if it can't touch you.
>>26795378
It's balance.
Clef can't beat Gengar, but Gengar can beat Clef with Taunt and Shadow Ball.
The Sableye counters can just be Rotom-W + Mandibuzz as status absorbers if it's stall. You don't need a counter to Sableye to beat stall.
>Your own Medicham counter is sacking and switching into Gengar or hoping you win a 50/50
Oh boy, so this is the part where I realize you think I think it's a perfect team. It doesn't have a Diggersby counter either! Panic!
Rotom-W scouts Clef, and I even mentioned accounting for T-Wave Clef in an earlier post. I won't entertain the rest since they're just poking holes in the team I already knew were there.
>>26795517
So you're beating Sableye by getting burnt and sitting in front of it and just being PP stalled. Great.
Your Clefable counter is winning literally every 50/50 throughout the entire game.
Your team is pure shit. Not just like a bad team, but it's fucking pathetic.
It is so bad.
I know you're also shit because you thought that your awful no poison gengar set is a thing that can do anything.
>>26795517
so you're building a team for high ladder, but "it's not going to handle the big dogs on the high ladder"???
>Bringing up Skarm was irrelevant then.
I mentioned skarm because it's one of the three mons you are almost guaranteed to see in stall, along with chansey and mega sab.
>At least 40 is fine given all the momentum on the team, since chip damage is inevitable.
You seem to have no experience with stall whatsoever.
>Well that's the point, to Shadow Ball if it can't touch you.
ok, shadow ball the chansey and risk getting twaved. Funny you were just talking about how you can merely taunt and pain split chansey to beat it, but now you're saying you can shadow ball on it. Almost like it's forcing some kind of prediction huh?
>want to make a grass team for monotype
>team would likely get it's shit kicked in the first steel or fire team they face, or just get wrecked in general
If only Sceptile could learn draco meteor. Won't do shit but it's better than dragon pulse.
>playing competetive when its basically just a bunch of kids spamming primals and mega latias
>>26795614
it learns earthquake
>>26795634
It's almost like Smogon's system is better, huh, what with actively trying to balance the game
>>26795587
Sounds to me like you're being overbearing because something put you in a foul mood. Especially since you're trying to say anything to put me down when I clarified my intent with these suggestions. You'd know that if you bothered reading, but insulting is much faster to vent.
>>26795596
It's meant to be a work in progress. You wouldn't look at shit players to base your team off of, you know? (I'm not saying 1500s is shit, but rather that you want to be good even if you aren't good right now)
Ok sure then.
I have plenty experience with stall, and beating it without using a Fairy.
And yeah I went over that already earlier in the thread. If it's Stealth Rock/cleric it's easier for you to click Shadow Ball. If it's T-Wave, you can pawn your Rotom-W off to scout (or just Taunt initially) and if it has it, then it's a matter of playing around it. When you see stall without a Rocker (barring Skarm since it's the Spiker), Chansey is almost definitely the Rocker, and that happens a lot, which is why I've been downplaying T-Wave on it since I've been talking stall.
>>26795708
You prepare for the most common thing. If spdef msab is the most common thing in the part of the ladder you're in, you'd better fucking prepare for it. Why are you trying to argue against this?
>>26795614
Venusaur fucks shit up
>>26795665
Balance the game?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
>>26795752
Because it was an example suggestion that goes to highlight taking advantage of your defense and breaking stall.
If I suggested LO Torn-T as a stallbreaker, people would highlight how it can miss or how Hurricane isn't an assured 2HKO on SpDef M-Sab. If I suggested Magma Trap Heatran, people would highlight how Chansey and M-Sab can break it, or Quag can wall it. If I suggested LO Diggersby, people would highlight how the 50/50s can force Dig to use STAB, inviting Skarm in to LO stall/kill when it tries to hit it with coverage.
Do you want me to say sorry for suggesting Gengar as a stallbreaker because Weavile traps it or one M-Sab set doesn't (always) get 2HKO'd by it? No stallbreaker will guarantee you a win.
>>26793441
I average at least 1600 with my teams. Tbh team theorycrsfting is fairly complex and has gone a long way. To discover the various nuances and good cores by yourself is incredibly unlikely, maybe if youre a genius you could do it.
I highly recommend looking at pro teams. Feel free not to rip them off, but it is vital that you learn the various philosophies accosiated with how those teams are built. For example look at whether their pokemon coverage fpcuses on type coverage (being able to switch in on any type/attack) or usage coverage (being able to switch in on most OU pokemon, rather than types). And see how these affects overall stability.
>>26795875
If you had said heatran I would have said fair enough, heatran beats mega sableye which garchomp and medicham can't do. Instead, you just have a team 6-0'd by mega sableye. I don't want you to say sorry, I just want you to understand why it's a bad team.
>>26795665
>required to use genieshit and legendaries to stand a chance
>greninja spam
>balance
>>26795904
Heatran runs into the same problem as Gengar, since Sab can just Recover on it. Once Heatran gets Knocked Off, it's on a timer.
I guess the difference is that while Heatran can take hits from M-Sab, it does have an answer in Quag (especially after being Knocked Off). Gengar can't afford to take hits, but pressures stall a lot from the hits it can deal out.
To be fair, SD or LO Chomp can scare Sab out, where SR going up would help put it in range for Gengar.
>I just want you to understand why it's a bad team.
Bad is relative. I want you to understand I wouldn't use this on the high ladder, but that it's a way to approach teambuilding. When you nitpick at certain mons on the team, I know they don't handle everything, but they handle a lot of things and I made it up in a few minutes with explanations for each member. Whether you want to debate something like the existence of stallbreakers in OU is a different story.
Here's a rushed build of my grass team. Can't help but notice the lack of leech seed, hidden power and toxic. Shit at the game, but wanna read opinions.
>>26795997
Why Explosion over Leech Seed?
>>26796019
After setting up rocks, and paralyzing a potential sweeper, I like going out with a bang, Also taunt is annoying as fuck.
>>26795997
Uhm, no Serperior? Also,
>using Tropius
Do you wanna get your shit kicked in?
>>26795997
You're going to want something for Fire types, Steel types, Grass types, Flying types, Dragon types, and Poison types (so all the resists).
First thing's first:
Your Roserade should be Technician with a Hidden Power. I recommend Fire.
Second, I recommend fitting a Cradily on there, to handle Flying types and Poison types. Maybe make it Phys Def.
Third, Mega Venu with mixed defenses is your Ice answer as well as maybe your Fire answer. Grass is hard to work with.
What mons would you like to stick with, actually? I can imagine you'd be tempted to keep some mons on there like Mega Sceptile.
>>26793441
Kill yourself my dude
>>26795997
Pic related, these are the best mons Grass has to offer. Use them or go home. Mega-Saur is IMO nearly necessary because of Thick Fat. Sceptile just doesn't compare.
>>26795973
>Greninja
?????????
I don't get you fuckers. Look at VGC and tell me it's not 10 times less diverse than Smogon's tiers.
>>26793424
get drunk and champ showderp desu
It really helps. Everyone gives you great hints and lets you know if you made an inappropriate move.
I'm trying to build a DD Dragonite team. Should I use Bisharp or Scizor?
>>26797646
It really depends on what else you want to use too, but Bisharp is usually more reliable since there's less that can deal with it after an SD compared to Scizor.
>>26795665
VGC is USUALLY pretty good. This season is just fucked up.
>>26798031
TPCi should really hire a balancing committee or something.
I like those unofficial systems where different Pokemon carry different points and you can only have so many points on your team. After each season, they can make the high-usage Pokemon from that season worth a lot of points to discourage the same monotony each year.
>>26798914
Did you ever try pokebattle? It was based off that idea. It was also hilariously shitty.
>>26799116
I haven't. I only know of the system from school clubs and local tourneys and such.
I guess it wouldn't solve the in-season diversity either, since even if the most seen mons change each season, there'll still be dominating mons in each.
>>26797979
So this is what I've got now
Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed
Scizor-Mega @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- U-turn
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal Bell
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 188 Def / 72 Spe
Impish Nature
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Toxic
Weavile @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Icicle Crash
- Knock Off
- Ice Shard
Volcarona @ Lum Berry
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Quiver Dance
- Giga Drain
How do I fix this? I've taken it for a couple test runs and my main issue is not having any counter to Zard Y and Bravest Bird.
>>26800296
Your main problem is actually no hazard clearing. You have 3 Pokemon susceptible to Rocks. Next, I suggest you throw a Magnezone on the team to trap Scizor and Ferrothorn and Skarm, who can be problems for Dragonite and Clefable and Weavile. Lastly, I'd suggest making your Dragonite your Y and Volcarona answer. It resists their STABs but you just have to shift from full offense to bulky DD, so that you can take the hits much better. Then you can probably make Dragonite Leftovers instead of Lum, with Clef's Heal Bell as backup for it instead.
