>yfw IVs are removed in Sun/Moon
I would be ok with it.
But I would prefer if they had IV be stat points you could put in your pokemon.
>>26788540
Why stop there? Remove EVs as well. Fuck it, make all pokemon have the same stats.
>>26788555
>>26788562
Anything to make it easier for the toddlers huh?
>>26788540
So how would hidden power work?
>>26788562
>Why stop there?
Because IVs are trashy, hard to control, and barely add any depth to competitive compared to the other stat mechanics.
>>26788540
don't remove them, just let us re-roll them, shuffle them around.
>>26788578
Random when you catch pokemon, or you can go to an NPC and select one from a list.
>>26788540
>24 BP consumable item that allows you to raise a Pokemon's IV by one
Would that fix anything?
I don't want them removed. I just want a post-game facility where they can be altered for BP.
Maybe you can max out or minimize up to 3 of their stats. This means that you could easily max out:
>any egg from the daycare if there's at least one 6iv mon with a Destiny Knot
>any mon you catch with a high search level on the DexNav
>at least the attacking stats of some random mon
It's a small fix, but the problem would vanish without removing the entire mechanic.
>>26788562
>muh bike simulator
>>26788540
Honestly that would save me a lot of time and lot of breeders some unneeded grief, but they at least need to keep EVs so Super Training still has some point and Pokemon can still be however offensive or defensive they want.
Heatran and Salamence are pretty much examples of mons that turn into completely different monsters depending on their nature and investments.
>>26788562
retarded assumption
ivs serve little to no purpose aside from being an attempt to enforce the "no two pokemon are exactly alike" point, and even then it becomes void the moment you get to the breeding part, since you will want to aim for certain builds
aside from shooting for certain hidden powers there is no situation in which you would purposefully want to have any of the defense ivs to be less than perfect, and in case of attack stats and speed it's almost completely binary - you either want them at zero or perfect
the worst part about ivs is that they are given at near complete random and getting a good pokemon is matter of rolling the dice until you get it
evs are a different thing - while you could consider ev-training a mundane activity, there is completely no randomness in them
>>26788590
>and barely add any depth to competitive compared to the other stat mechanics
If that were true then you wouldn't worry about controling them and therefore wouldn't be complaining about this
>>26788562
>Remove EVs as well.
Why are EVs STILL seen as an issue when pic related existed a gen ago? You even see the fucking numbers after using a reset bag.
>>26788700
Because we are supposed to hate gen 6 and everything about it
>this thread again
It's never happening my man
Best you can hope for is even more tools to make getting perfect mons easier, which is inevitable
>Now EV points are general and can be change at anytime in the stats you wants.
>Also, you can change at anytime the nature of your pokemon . (More like his orientation)
>>26788683
But the fact is that anyone competent enough to be playing always makes sure they're as good as they can be. The only justifiable feature to make each Pokemon "unique" is natures as that will always change to each person's strategy.
What if they added a way to individually assign EV? Kinda like skill points.
>>26788700
Because Super Training takes a fuck ton of time and it becomes boring after five minutes, and because fighting hordes of underleveled pokemon over and over is not funny.
All pokemon should have fixed stats. No one wants to waste time breeding and training, but almost everyone wants to spend time battling.
>>26788726
It's like you've never played a gen 6 game before.
>>26788683
Let's say I'm making a Garchomp for competitive.
IVs do exist: I need to spend hours playing bike simulator and get 31 in all stats so it's equal to other competitive Garchomp.
IV's don't exist: Breed once and I already have a Garchomp equal to other competitive Garchomp.
NOTHING CHANGED except in one scenario I don't spend hours on the boring ass bike simulator. EVs are different because there are multiple equally valid ways to distribute them. IVs are nearly always min/maxed so everyone uses the same values anyway.
>>26788726
Smog On. :^)
>waaaah gamefreak casualizes pokémon
>waaaah gamefreak hasn't removed ivs yet
>>26788736
>EVs are different because there are multiple equally valid ways to distribute them
Yeah, we sure see lots of 252 sp.Atk 252 def Garchomp, don't we?
EVs suffer from the exact fucking thing. Most pokemon have fixed roles and there's always an optimal stat spread for them. And not only that, most people just go for 252/252/4 most of the time.
At the end, all pokemon end up having the same stats. The only thing that may change sometimes are moves.
>>26788726
>Super Training takes a fuck ton of time
>>26788735
I have. EV training only became bearable thanks to the EXP Share + items + Pokerus
>>26788784
And yet it was tedious as hell before the introduction of Super training and Horde battles especially in ORAS where there are areas that have guaranteed hordes of a specific stat that always show up with sweet scent.
>>26788808
it was tedious before and it's still tedious now
and more importantly it adds nothing to the games
>>26788770
252/252 spreads aren't that common, EVs add a ton of variety to the game and team building, it's one thing the game should never remove
>IVs are kept as an arbitrary value, not affecting stats, just hidden power, personality traits, and maybe slightly adjusting hues / patterns of a model.
https://snapthirty.com/2016/02/27/pokemon-sun-and-moon-to-do-away-with-ev-and-iv-training/
This just might happen
>>26788836
>no reliable site reported this
totally legit
>>26788562
>>26788836
there would also be a bit of trimming being done to the number of moves, abilities and items in the game
they're going too far
>>26788602
No that's still way too expensive.
More like 1BP.
Just let us buy super carbos/zinc/whatever for a 200k dollars each that increase iv's of achosen stat by 1. You can farm like 2m/hr pretty easily.
>>26788836
>oh hey we're totally gonna make an article about this
>even though our basis on such assumptions are skeletal at best
>>26788866
fuck i meant to quote
>there would also be a bit of trimming being done to the number of moves, abilities and items in the game.
wasted dubs
>>26788822
Nah your just one of those retarded casuals with a mental deficiency that Gamefreak is trying to cater to.
Also you didn't deserve those trips and dubs
IVs and Evs should be visible number stats maintain them as hidden values is retarded
>>26788770
>i only play singles
>>26788770
>I only play hyper offense singles
>>26788726
>takes 40 minutes to fully EV stat train a Pokemon in Super Training
>less than that if you do Hordes
>compared to grinding a single Pokemon constantly for hours and having to keep track off the number on a notebook
No, Gen 6 made EVs just fine.
>>26788822
Dude, it takes like five minutes to fully EV train a pokemon now.
>>26788822
In spite of your full house, you're only correct on the first point and not the second.
IVs are shit since they're just a free 31 to anything that isn't running HP or Trick Room, where you want 30 or 0, but EVs actually do add a lot of strategy to Pokémon raising.
Unless you go full retard and only do 252/252/4 builds.
>>26788540
Or you know, you could just not suck and actually put in effort to breeding/raising them.
>>26788770
are you retarded? most pokemon have more than one role. a garchomp can be max speed and attack, or speed and spatk, or hp and def, or hp and def with some speed evs to outpace common threats as well as a dash of attack to ensure some KOs
not to mention the fact that EVs are infinitely more important in doubles than in single
>>26788770
>there's only one way to use a Pokemon
>did I mention I'm retarded
>>26788736
But some mons need 0 or 31 for determined roles, for example Cresselia wants 0 speed if used in trick room, otherwise it needs 31. Removing IVs removes depth in specialization.
Same with primal groudon, it wants to be slower so desolate land is the weather that stays, etc.
>>26788540
IVs are cool in concept, but they end up being the exact opposite of that Pokemon even stands for.
You're supposed to grow strong bonds with your Pokemon and battle with them to make them stronger, which is what EVs are more closely related to.
To get the correct IVs you have to breed Pokemon that you will possibly never use again over and over until you get what is considered "the best" instead of what you were holding on to for your journey.
IVs only affect competetive fags and changing them to something else "like slight coloration or size differences" would not only fit what IVs were supposed to be in the first place I.E. Pokemon DNA and would make catching and training your Pokemon feel a lot more personal.
>>26788770
This post is even more retarded when you realize he talks about Garchomp, a mon that uses different EVs spreads depending on the set.
>>26788770
You're the reason why people get surprised when I slap them with a bulky setup scolipede or a full def volcarona
>>26789089
Heads up anon, to achieve such a thing you would have to make each and every pokemon literally equal in stats so people could choose their favourites and be on a level playing field.
Without that people will always just grab the strongest without caring about it.
Removing IVs do nothing to alleviate this.
>>26788540
they might do it since Sun/Moon are compatible with Yellow/Red/Blue
Natures can replace IVs in the Hidden Power calculation , and it would make HP more balanced since there would be a drawback to using the one you need for coverage.
>>26789120
Uh, no. You just need to be able to choose a Pokemon without it being arbitrarily permanently handicapped compared to Pokemon of its same species.
>>26789126
>they might do it since Sun/Moon are compatible with Yellow/Red/Blue
If you remember correctly the reason the GB games weren't compatible with the GBA games was due to the different hardware used for the system not that they were actually incompatible.
It's probably extremely easy to transfer them now that it's on VC.
>>26789120
Having a strong Pokemon isn't the problem. You can still catch a strong Pokemon and still have an attachment to it.
IV Breeding removes all sense of attachment to the Pokemon and just makes it look like you're breeding for a tool more than a friend.
>>26789058
>>26789071
Yeah I can also give my Blissey a speedy phisically offensive spread, but that doesn't mean it will be useful.
Very, very few pokemon can play different roles. Most of them are only viable if the optimal spread for them is chosen, making EVs as irrelevant as IVs
>>26789112
>bulky setup scolipede
Now that's original. I bet you even give it baton pass sometimes!!!
>>26789089
>>26789135
>>26789155
I agree with this. I should be able to use my starter bro instead of its great-great-great-great-grandchild.
>>26789155
>IV Breeding removes all sense of attachment to the Pokemon and just makes it look like you're breeding for a tool more than a friend.
You still have to breed for moves, natures and other shit.
Pokemon isn't Digimon. You don't actually raise and feed a mon like a glorified tamagotchi.
if anything Monster Rancher nailed the perfect balance between breeding and bonding since you could either fuse your monsters to create stronger ones or retire them as coaches for your next monsters.
>>26789135
Uh, yes.
The removal of IVs won't make every Pokemon viable. You're still just going to abandon it for a Pokemon you hold no attachment or like for just because it's stronger.
>>26788540
Pls Masuda-san, listen to this sage.
>>26789180
>You still have to breed for moves, natures and other shit.
Which doesn't take NEARLY as long to get.
Hell if you're lucky and have the right items you only need to bread once do get what you need.
IV breeding will always take forever.
>Pokemon isn't Digimon. You don't actually raise and feed a mon like a glorified tamagotchi.
True, but the whole point of Pokemon is going on an adventure with the Pokemon you catch on your journey, not using Pokemon that you breed one million times that you probably won't even use in the main game.
>>26788875
desu, 1BP would be too low. I think it should be at least 2 to put it on par with the EV drinks
>>26788578
>>26788596
>>26788682
>>26788828
>>26789126
Hidden Power requires 2 bits. Where do we have a spare 2 bits? EVs. After you get your 510 useful EVs, you can get 2 more that do nothing. Make that determine Hidden Power:
Attack Attack Normal
Defense Defense Fighting
Sp. Atk Sp. Atk Flying
Sp. Def Sp. Def Poison
HP HP Ground
Speed Speed Rock
Attack Defense Bug
Defense Sp. Atk Ghost
Sp. Atk Sp. Def Steel
Sp. Def HP Fire
HP Speed Water
Speed Attack Grass
Attack Sp. Atk Electric
Defense Sp. Def Psychic
Sp. Atk HP Ice
Sp. Def Speed Dragon
HP Attack Dark
Speed Defense Fairy
Attack Sp. Def Normal (Future use)
Defense HP Normal (Future use)
Sp. Atk Speed Normal (Future use)
>>26789218
>IV breeding will always take forever.
Pro-Tip:inject:^)
>>26789155
>IV Breeding removes all sense of attachment to the Pokemon and just makes it look like you're breeding for a tool more than a friend.
Says you, I spent my time breeding it and I feel very attached because I was there the whole way.
And now because I can do perfect breeds I can keep it forever.
>>26789183
I don't, if I don't personally like a Pokemon I won't catch it in the first place, and I very rarely ever catch a Pokemon that is objectively stronger than everything else unless I already like it or think it's design is also cool.
Most people catch Pokemon that they like, not what's strongest.
Just remove EVs.
>>26789163
>Yeah I can also give my Blissey a speedy phisically offensive spread, but that doesn't mean it will be useful.
Yeah, that's what people are saying brah
You can troll the online ladder with the worst Pokemon ever (Scizor, Modest, 252 SpA, Specs, Silver Wind) and literally never give an actual fuck about whether you win or lose.
If people want to use physical Latios or Espeon or whatever they shit they want, let them. It's all in good cheek.
>>26789218
>IV breeding will always take forever.
Not any more, like this anon says >>26789249injectand the more you breed the faster it gets with each pokemon.
>>26789251
Did you care for every thing egg you hatched?
>>26789249
>>26789262Injecting only proves my point that IVs remove what makes Pokemon Pokemon.
It still takes longer than EV training or breeding for natures.
The only thing that takes longer is shiny hunting or breeding.
>>26789256
So then how to IVs even affect you?
Clearly you don't play anything else other than the main game.
>>26789256
So.. You haven't caught them all?
>>26789296
If IVs don't effect anything other than the competitive then why even keep them?
>>26789317
Are you retarded?
>>26789246
Interesting idea, but what happens when you teach a Pokémon without maxed EVs Hidden Power?
>>26789317
This is the stupidest argument I've read all day.
>>26789308I have, but I like certain Pokemon for personal reasons and not because they're strong.
>>26789317
Because they're for competitive things and that's clearly optional.
>>26789287
>IVs remove what makes Pokemon Pokémon
Fun-Fact:IVs have been around since Gen 1
>>26789323
That was the failure in my plan that I haven't resolved yet. Either:
a) It's Normal type until they have max EVs, which is a bad idea since I'm sure there are niche builds that involve non-maxed EVs, or
b) It uses those two bits, but not actually as EVs anymore; you can only get 510 EVs, and the other two bits are obtained separately, perhaps from a new super training or something. Which would hopefully be able to use the bits for other things as well, not *just* Hidden Power.
>>26789317
Are you retarded? It's because hey affect PvP which is why they're here.
>>26789321
>>26789330
No, I'm serious. What do they serve for other than to give competitive fags another extra step?
The uniqueness point is moot because people who play the main story won't notice it and people who breed for IVs are going to give the exact same spreads.
>>26789335
>>26789361
But they barely even affect that because they could be removed and the competitive scene would still be there.
They don't do shit except give competitive another thing to do to make their Pokemon the strongest.
>>26789348
They weren't IVs, and you didn't breed them to get better stats.
>>26789394
Different name, same shit retard.
If you wanted good IVs back then you would have to restart your game and capture new pokemon.
ITT: Toddlers who can't learn to powersave :joy: :joy: :joy:
>>26789404
That's better than breeding for ten hours.
Hell I'm pretty sure Gen 1 didn't even have a huge competitive scene like it is now.
>>26789385
>If I downplay their importance that means they're nothing!
So you are retarded.
>>26788822
Game Freak wants you to work to get the ideal Pokemon. Is it fun? Well, only about as fun as the other grindy shit you find in RPGs. Breeding is tedious but it can be called good gameplay depending on your opinion. I think it would be awkward and somewhat against the spirit of monster collecting for players to find the right Nature pokemon, and then be just done with all efforts to acquire a better version of that Pokemon.
>>26789417
>That's better than breeding for ten hours.
>resetting your entire game and recapturing pokemon is better than some control over what IV's you get
>>26789440
Then please tell me oh wise one what makes IVs SO important in anything other than competitive where even then removing would barely affect the scene at all?
>>26789385
Literally why not?
It's like asking if salt and pepper don't affect anything other than taste, then why use them on a steak?
It's clearly optional and doesn't affect casual players or a "steak is steak" person.
>>26789417
Nigger you what?
Instead of breeding for 10 hours which is more like less than one nowadays, you're sitting there recapturing pokemon and calculating their IVs yourself.
>>26789458
>Control
You're going to be breeding for the exact same fucking IV spread depending on the Pokemon.
>>26789467
>Food analogy
IVs shouldn't just effect one part of the community, that's a waste of a mechanic when everyone else either don't care for them or think they should just be removed or changed.
>>26789472
Okay but what does that have to do with this current conversation?
With breeding you have some kind of control that has been improved dramatically over the years, you didn't have it at all in gen 1.
>>26789471
>>26789500
Using Gen 1 as an example is bullshit anyways because Gen 1 barely even had a competitive scene compared to what it is now.
I don't know one person that has ever tried to play Pokemon Red competitively.
>>26789499
>IVs shouldn't just effect one part of the community
If you're going to be like that then there shouldn't be EVs, natures, abilities and just about everything else that affects the game because you can blitz the main game with everything.
Also multiplayer is the larger part of the game in comparison you retard.
Even if IVs are a trash mechanic GF never is going to remove them
Getting good Ivs via breeding adds replay value to the game
>>26789520
>Okay but what does that have to do with this current conversation?
Stop moving the goalposts also I doubt you were even around for the various tournaments and such back then.
That'd be fine, really. Makes breeding less tedious.
>>26789521
>If you're going to be like that then there shouldn't be EVs, natures, abilities and just about everything else that affects the game because you can blitz the main game with everything
Most of that shit doesn't involve pointless breeding and actually adds some real depth unlike IVs.
>Also multiplayer is the larger part of the game in comparison you retard
Not everyone who battles with other people are competitive fags you dumbass.
>>26788555
They already have those, though. That's what EVs are.
>>26789541
>Most of that shit doesn't involve pointless breeding and actually adds some real depth unlike IVs.
Yeah and like IVs they only affect competitive in game is literally worthless.
>Not everyone who battles with other people are competitive fags you dumbass.
Heads up, you're in the minority there faggot and the entire game was designed around multiplayer.
>>26789531
Says the one who brought up a generation that didn't even have breeding nor did it have a huge competitive scene meaning DVs were barely fucking relevant and were used for what they were supposed to be used for in the first place, making Pokemon more unique.
In the post game battle facility there should be a NPC that explains IVs and let you modify them, while EVs should be manually given and modified through Super Training without minigames or hordes
>>26789564
>nor did it have a huge competitive scene
See also I doubt you were even around for the various tournaments and such back then.
As an IV breeder myself, I would prefer if they were removed from the game at some point.
Breeding for eggmoves and a nature, working on EV's and leveling a mon up to a battle ready level is more then enough time spent for raising a new pokemon.
IV's can be done quick if your lucky, but if your going for a Hidden Ability and a particular nature it can be a nightmare. All I wanted was a female HA Dragalga and I had a 6 IV and a 5 IV mon in the daycare to get it and it ended up taking an extra hour just to get for no good reason at all.
It doesnt help that in the end of the day it really doesnt change anything, since you always want them to be all perfect. I recently finished breeding my HA Feraligatr and I love the thing. But I would bet you that everyone and their dog who owns a properly bred Feraligatr has the exact same carbon copy as mine down to the last digit And if the point of IV's was to make every pokemon feel different from eachother then that really doesn't seem right.
Not to mention any game mechanic that makes me put a coin under the joystick and put the game down to do something else until its ready to be played again, is probably doing something wrong.
>>26789562
>Yeah and like IVs they only affect competitive in game is literally worthless.
That's objectively false.
Just look any Pokemon that has Levitate or Clear Body.
>Heads up, you're in the minority there faggot and the entire game was designed around multiplayer.
Like I said, playing multiplayer doesn't make you a competitive fag.
I can easily play against one of my friends and we don't have to have a competitive team.
>>26789564
The statement I made about IVs in Gen 1 was to say that IVs have always been around, and they aren't going anywhere.
>>26789394
DVs were the exact same thing, they counted 2x so 0-15 got you exactly as far as 0-31 do today.
The only difference is that they also affected your Pokémon's gender and the shininess, which IVs don't (which is why if you ever played Gen II competitively and encounter either a female Pokémon or a shiny Pokémon, you knew your opponent was crap).
>>26789585
Was it as big as is it now? No.
Because there wasn't a way for people to easily battle each other from across the globe and they're wasn't as many Pokemon to have varied teams with.
Competitive only got huge during Gen 4 because with online anyone could make a competitive team and battle other people with their team.
>>26789564
>Says the one who brought up a generation that didn't even have breeding
Breeding has fuck all to do with IVs being in gen 1 you absolute retard. The thing that brought this up in the first place was an anon saying IVs went against what pokemon is about when they were in the game from the very start.
>nor did it have a huge competitive scene
There were a fuck ton of tourneys back in the day because everyone wanted to capitalize on the popularity of Pokemon.
You complete and utter retard.
>>26789163
>Now that's original. I bet you even give it baton pass sometimes!!!
No I don't, that's what surprise people when they think they can safely switch and take a +2 megahorn in the face, and can't one shot him because of the bulk
>>26789593
>Just look any Pokemon that has Levitate or Clear Body.
You mean those things that do nothing for in game?
What's your point? They literally change nothing outside of competitive where they're actually utilized fully.
>Like I said, playing multiplayer doesn't make you a competitive fag.
And like I said you're in the minority there faggot.
>I can easily play against one of my friends and we don't have to have a competitive team.
read above, just because you and your group of friends don't doesn't mean that the larger part avoids it like the plague. You still haven't answered how the fuck this affects you either.
Thank god.
>>26788540
I think they should remove the destiny bond parent breeding IV thing and just make them random all the way, but make having a 31stat about a thousand time as rare as any other value.
>>26789596
And my original point was that breeding for IVs ruins the point of Pokemon, and breeding wasn't a thing in Gen 1 you twat.
>>26789619
Which is what IVs should still do, because at least then it affect people who play main line only.
>>26789642
If you read my original post I said IVs were good in CONCEPT because what they are supposed to be is Pokemon DNA, but with breeding it removes that uniqueness when Pokemon is supposed to be about having new and unique experiences.
IVs make Pokemon unique, breeding for IV spreads is what ruined IVs.
>>26789711
>And my original point was that breeding for IVs ruins the point of Pokemon
How does that change the fact that they've been a thing since the inception of Pokemon?
They're just as much "the point of pokemon" as pikachu is the mascot.
Do you have some learning disability or something?
>>26789172
i have a special box for all my bros that I use in my playthroughs. It's basically a graveyard but I don't like to think of it that way.
I usually use my bro teams against my filthy casual friends but most of them usually never make it to the elite four.
Okay so here are the consequences of removing IVs
>pokemon no longer have inherently unique stats
>breeding pokemon is now almost entirely pointless
>getting competitive level pokemon is now much easier
Bike simulator is not fun. Having boxes filled with throw away pokemon is not fun. Having to wait until you reached the post-game IV reader makes breeding pointless during the story.
I think they just need to add new mechanics to make breeding more transparent and less of a grindfest.
Items like the everstone and destiny knot should be replaced by abilities and out of battle moves used by pokemon. Maybe should be able to leave a third pokemon as a nanny, which can give different effects.
People should be able to get a 5iv pokemon with the right planning and help of nanny pokemon without a hacked ditto and hours of bike simulator.
Moves like future sight or mind reader should be used to read an egg's ability or nature, or show the IVs of a pokemon.
Moves like roost and lucky chant should help eggs be made quicker and with a higher chance of good IVs. Pokemon with max friendship should have some benefit when breeding too, so that you're encouraged to use your bros.
>>26789440
Dodging the question like motherfucker.
>>26789683
>You mean those things that do nothing for in game?
>What's your point? They literally change nothing outside of competitive where they're actually utilized fully.
You're completely retarded.
Levitate is a HUGE deal for mainline games. If Levitate was gone you could easily take down a lot of ghost Pokemon like Gengar.
>And like I said you're in the minority there faggot
Am I? How many kids play competitively? Huh?
How many people who are just getting into Pokemon are going to have any idea what they fuck Pokemon IVs and EVs even are?
The only people who know what IVs are are people that have been with the series for a while to know a lot about the mechanics and the only people who use them are competitive fags.
>read above, just because you and your group of friends don't doesn't mean that the larger part avoids it like the plague.
Competitive scene isn't the larger part you fucking mong, not everyone breeds for a fucking 31IV Gibble. /vp/ is not the only people who play this game, just like Smogon or VGC does not take up for ALL Pokemon fans.
>You still haven't answered how the fuck this affects you either.
Exactly, it doesn't effect me. Why have a mechanic that does absolutely fucking nothing expect for faggots that just want to battle to win instead of for fun?
>>26789786
Breeding won't be pointless because you can still get abilities and moves.
I like anon's idea about having a 'nanny' that boosts the IV's to 5 so there would be less Japanese 6iv dittos around
>>26789738
It doesn't, but that wasn't the point.
The point was that IVs got ruined because of being able to easily breed for them but now you've skewered it into "IVs are inherently bad" which is not what the original post was about at all.
ITT: Retards arguing over things they don't quite understand
Are IVs annoying? Sure. But I have no doubt that GF will make them easier in time.
You know what? Natures and EVs were probably more of a pain in than IVs were in Gen III. It's only that these two got major quality of life updates that IVs didn't.
Wanted a certain nature in RSFRLG? Good luck, since you needed to breed and hope you got the right one. Did it have an ability that it did not want? SOL. GF added Everstone breeding in Emerald for 50% nature passing, then upgraded that to 100% in later games. They also added Synchronizers in Emerald. So this became a non-issue over time.
EVs are similar. If you wanted to EV train a Pokémon in RSFRLG the quickest you could do was 63 kills with PokéRus and Macho brace. Wanted to check EVs? Nope. Wanted to reset EVs? Nope. Emerald added EV reset berries. DP added Power Items, XY added reset bags and a way to check your EVs (though in a roundabout way) and capped it off at 252.
IVs meanwhile passed 3 from either parent since the very start of Gen III and almost nothing changed. Emerald added the IV checker, DP added a HP checker and Pt added Power item breeding to guarantee one set IV would be passed on but this was essentially it. XY added Destiny Knot and 3 guaranteed flawless IVs for legendaries and this was the first meaningful change for it. I have no doubt in my mind GF will continue to streamline the process.
>>26789258
>If people want to use physical Latios or Espeon or whatever they shit they want, let them. It's all in good cheek.
They don't need to IV breed and EV train for that.
I'd shit myself with happiness and surprise. Only reason I didn't inject/hack this gen is breeding isn't difficult anymore, but its still stupid mechanic that doesn't add much/anything to the game, aside from making the in game battles much easier and putting noobs in battlespot at a big disadvantage.
>>26789837
It would be better if they straight out removed IVs instead of adding more unnecessary crap to the game to keep forcing them.
The only people who care about IVs are the hardcore competitive players. Casual players (a.k.a the games' main audience) don't care about IVs, provided they even know they exist.
IVs are literally unnecessary and something no one would ever miss if they were retconned
>>26789150
IIRC the story was.
Gamefreak: Hey Nintendo, we can't get the GBA and GBC to talk to each other properly. Can you help us?
Nintendo:Too bad, it's your problem to make it work
Gamefreak: Well we can't. No one will be able to transfer their Pokémon to the new generation. Whelp, may as well revamp the stat system to be less retarded since we have to reset everything.
>>26789800
>Levitate is a HUGE deal for mainline games.
You're not getting it are you.
They mean fuck all in the main game. The main game being the story not the mainline titles.
These things literally only matter in competitive where you utilize abilities, items, moves and their various effects to make a difference in the outcome of the battle.
In the main game it doesn't matter what you do because unless you're mentally disabled to the point where you're a drooling mess you're going to win each and every battle regardless of the game you're playing.
This shouldn't be this hard for you to understand.
>Am I? How many kids play competitively? Huh?
Quite a bit actually you should do you research into this shit instead of just assuming it's just neckbeards that participate.
>How many people who are just getting into Pokemon are going to have any idea what they fuck Pokemon IVs and EVs even are?
With each passing year?
Less and less especially now with Super training outright telling you that these things matter to the development of your pokemon.
>The only people who know what IVs are are people that have been with the series for a while to know a lot about the mechanics and the only people who use them are competitive fags.
Except that's false you retard, with the ever growing internet more and more people are learning about these things and participating in various tournaments that happen be it VGC or local tournaments.
>Competitive scene isn't the larger part you fucking mong
Here's how we spot someone woefully out of touch with the series. It's been the dominant part of the series for a long time now anon.
>Exactly, it doesn't effect me.
Then why the fuck do you care if it doesn't affect what you do?
What is the point in complaining about something you willingly ignore and doesn't change the way you enjoy the game?
Why in the ever living fuck are you so retarded?
>>26789900
Yeah but if you asked me what I wanted removed in Gen 3 when I was breeding competitive Absol in Ruby I'd argue for Natures to go first since that was a real fucking issue. But they made that significantly easier over time so I never hear anyone complaining about natures any more (except when collecting Wondercard mons).
Also, IVs have been around for the longest of time, too. It would be a shame to get rid of the one thing that has been around since Red/Green.
>>26789832
That's true, but for some pokemon egg moves aren't needed, and abilities are super easy to get already.
Breeding a pokemon and having the wrong ability show up doesn't even feel like I did something wrong, it's just annoying RNG.
I really wish GF would move away from that and actually incorporate pokemon and their moves more effectively.
I don't know why they made a cool world filled with amazing monsters, but the most useful things you have are a bicycle and a few random items.
>>26789901
Nah, no one could make it work at all because of the way link cables worked with the GBA.
Basically the data was sent one at a time with the GB games so one person sent a pokemon and then when the person recieved it their pokemon would be sent, but with the GBA everything worked simultaneously.
Plus it would require them to make a link cable specifically for connecting the GB/C to the GBA.
>>26789837
>E.V's never got easier to work with.
Really? What are
>Changing the stat cap to 252 so you no longer have to worry about going into excess.
>Wi-Fi trading making Pokerus much easier to obtain.
>Horde battles plus the modern exp share letting you obtain 50 e.vs per battle and e.v train multiple things at once.
>Super training letting you fine tune complex spreads.
>>26789985
>>E.V's never got easier to work with.
I literally never said that, I also mentioned everything you just said. Are you actually retarded, anon?
>>26789985
>E.V's never got easier to work with.
Except for yours, the other anon and mine this line never shows up in the thread.
Are you really trying to discredit that anon on the chance that people may not read his post?
Are you fucking retarded?
>>26789837
They should continue streamlining the process by getting rid of IVs.
EVs and natures were NEVER harder than IVs. There are only 25 fucking natures compared to 32^6 possible combinations of IVs and EVs could be reset ever since Emerald.
>>26789909
>They mean fuck all in the main game. >The main game being the story not the mainline titles.
Yes they fucking do.
Like I said before, you could easily take down a Gengar with an earthquake if Levitate was gone.
Sure you can use just about anything else but that's still a other move you can use against it.
>These things literally only matter in competitive
Outright false.
I can easily use abilities to my advantage in a main game by using a Pokemon with Moxie or Contrarian to change things up.
>In the main game it doesn't matter what you do
It changes the game enough to were moves that normally don't effect Pokemon at all suddenly do.
>Quite a bit actually you should do you research
If ten year olds actually give a fuck about IVs in this day and age i'd be surprised.
>With each passing year?
How do you know that?
>Super training outright telling you that these things matter to the development of your Pokemon.
A thing that's entirely optional and most kids won't care about compared to Amie.
>Except that's false you retard, with the ever growing internet more and more people are learning about these things l
Normal Pokemon fans aren't going to look up these things unless they want to play competitively in the first place.
>It's been the dominant part of the series for a long time now Anon.
If that were true we wouldn't have Mega Rayquaza now would we?
The game's main selling point isn't competitive, it's going on an adventure.
>Then why the fuck do you care if it doesn't affect what you do?
Because it SHOULD affect me.
Otherwise it's a complete waste of coding.
>What is the point in complaining about something you willingly ignore and doesn't change the way you enjoy the game?
See above.
If a mechanic is only added to pander to one part of the community it's a waste of a mechanic and should be thrown out entirely for changed to effect everyone.
>>26790059
Since you always inherited 3 IVs from a pool of 12, you had a better chance of passing on the right IVs than you had getting the right nature in Ruby/Sapphire.
Of course, I'm ignoring the notion of flawless Pokémon in RS because that was virtually impossible (even with flawless parents, 1/[32^3*25(*2 if dual ability)])
As I said, EVs and Natures got easier over time, while IVs were neglected. Only in Gen VI did they add something to make them easier to obtain.
>wanting to keep ivs in because they make pokemon "unique"
>being attached to 1s and 0s
>>26788683
You literally don't know what depth means or how it applies to this setting.
If there were depth, you'd have variation in how they were utilized. EV's offer depth because not every set will run the same spread, and they can dramatically alter the function of a pokemon.
IV's will be the exact same in 99% of the pokemon you build. All they act as is an arbitrary barrier-- another pointless checkbox to fill out in order to make a competitive pokemon.
You dumb faggots complain about hacking and simulators, but this shit wouldn't be around if Pokemon didn't have all this arbitrary ass bullshit to get through to make a damn team.
>>26790061
>Like I said before, you could easily take down a Gengar with an earthquake if Levitate was gone.
They literally don't make a difference because you could one shot a gengar with a NVE move if you wanted to. Get it through your thick skull that none of this shit has ever mattered in the main game.
>If ten year olds actually give a fuck about IVs in this day and age i'd be surprised.
Well be ready to shit your pants anon because there are 10 year olds that do care.
>How do you know that?
You do realise that the internet is a thing along with various social media sites and what not? It's not that hard to find this shit. You could google a competitive pokemon fan page on facebook and see all of the kids that post there.
>A thing that's entirely optional and most kids won't care about compared to Amie.
>a feature that was advertised nearly as much as amie is something people won't care for
>Normal Pokemon fans aren't going to look up these things unless they want to play competitively in the first place.
Except you know, when they want to beat their friends. Competitive or not at some point you're going to delve into this area of the game even if you're just playing casually with friends.
>If that were true we wouldn't have Mega Rayquaza now would we?
You say that like GF doesn't constantly make retarded choices ignoring their majority fanbase.
>The game's main selling point isn't competitive, it's going on an adventure.
Oh sure, that's totally why they advertise the story and such instead of the multiplayer, oh wait.
>Because it SHOULD affect me.
Then play the part that the game was designed around, saying it doesn't affect you when you're actively avoiding it is like saying Mario doesn't have momentum when you haven't tried to run. See how retarded this argument of yours is?
>If a mechanic is only added to pander to one part of the community
That "part" is literally the majority anon, you know, the part that matters.
Also
>phoneposter
>>26790061
>Because it SHOULD affect me.
They do, if you play the other part of the game at an above casual level. You don't, I wouldn't be surprised if you're still using sets like Ember, Flame Wheel, Flamethrower and Fireblast.
Seriously though, not even EVs affect you dumbass. Even if you bumped up the difficulty it wouldn't matter to the casual player because they could still blitz the game with anything.
>>26788683
>depth
If "sit here hitting this random number generator until you get the right ones" is deep to you, then I don't know what to say to you.
>>26789355
>since I'm sure there are niche builds that involve non-maxed EVs
No, there aren't
No. In fact, make there be more per-pokemon variables. BUT, make it so that there is the same amount of IVs in each pokemon but distributed differently (like EVs), and make it so that they are more likely to be distributed in favor of the pokemon species' highest base stat, with bad IVs being in the minority.
>>26790351
Except there are.
>>26789163
You're either a troll or you've only ever played OU Smogon singles against others as lifeless and autistic as yourself.
>>26790361
I can't complain about the idea of IVs being biased towards base stats, though I have had some fun doing "really stupid mon builds" in which I do the opposite of what's expected. Mostly physical Jelliscent so far has taken the cake. It's wonderful Chansey/Blissey bait. For those not in the know, Jelliscent doesn't naturally learn physical moves. They're 100% TM/HM/Tutored!
>>26790547
Of course, you could still do that. It'd just be a little more tedious
>>26790547
What's the set up? I'm really curious now
>>26788625
>KLK
>>26788610
Man, I would be satisfied if they made the stats inherited from the parents increase by one.
>>26790812
>Stats
oops, I meant IVs.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD YESSSSS
>>26788590
>and barely add any depth to competitive
>implying they care about competitive
They want to make pokemon even more unique to each other. And that's it. Pokemon Uniqueness>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"Muh children game competitive scenario"
>>26788540
>not keeping IVs but removing EVs
EVs pretty much add nothing to the game anyway. At the very least, the game does try to make IVs accessible (with IV checkers in each gen).
>>26788726
you are lazy and autistic
for someone like you, id recommend action replay
>>26790916
>EVs pretty much add nothing to the game anyway
Its very important for the competitive scene,which is a part of the game:^)
>>26789524
>replay value
that's time i could spend battling
>>26790737
Again, this is a "really stupid mon build" so hang on to your hats!
Brave Jelliscent
Ev train in Attack, HP, and physical defense. Don't expect to go first, shoot for enduring long enough to status or at least hit back HARD when they're expecting special and aren't prepared for it. I like this messed up critter as a utility mon that can battle just for kicks, but I'm offering alt moves just in case you'd rather just battle.
Gender unimportant, though I tend to go for female for the WTF factor. The pink thing is PUNCHING YOU!
Secret Power / Toxic (for the status effects)
Waterfall / Dive
Giga Impact (use when you know you're going to die)
Hex (pairs with status moves to be most power ghost attack in the game! Also has Stab.)
So yeah, just one special move but boy is it a doozy. Link battle Secret Power causes paralysis which negates your slow speed making it a great choice for a slow mon. Toxic is more reliable, though.
Everyone who wants to get rid of ivs are completely autistic. Ivs seperate competitive play and in game. Vgc would be more fucked up than normal with all perfect iv legendaries . Play showdown if you want no Ivs/customizable ivs.
>>26788562
>not understanding the difference between IVs and EVs
>>26788540
>breed for dozens of hours
or
>cheat
wow IVs are so cool doe
>>26788773
>>26788991
>40 minutes
>not a fuck ton of time
I guess it doesn't matter if you don't have anything else to do with your life.
>>26791468
Dude it's 40 minutes only in Super training and like five or less with hordes.
Also what person can't spare 40 minutes?
>>26791240
vgc already uses perfect iv legends.
>>26791319
this whole breeding for ivs for hours thing is autistic. it takes an hour tops to catch a route trash mon and breed it to be perfect.
>>26791468
>literally less than 1% of your day
>>26791533
> 40 minutes
> So autistic you managed to get EV training down to an exact time amount and can breed a 6IV within an hour thanks to those 6 IV dittos you bought off ebay.
Sthap. Also life is calling.
>>26791600
*5, fucking phone
>>26791533
40 minutes per pokemon
that's 4 hours for ev training a full team
no thanks.
not even counting the breeding part.
And I didn't say hordes took long, I said that having to kill 5 underleveled pokemon repeatedly is boring.
>>26791629
>40 min per pokemon
>4 hours for a full team
what?
I think IV's are fine for the campaign and just battling with friends, but there should be an option to have them removed for 'serious' competitive shit
>>26788572
tedious doesn't mean hard
>>26791642
Shh, he's retarded.
>>26791642
it takes about 40 minutes in super training to grind 510 evs.
>>26791659
>>26791671
nvm, i just redid the math
40*6=240
240/60=4
whoops
>>26791689
I thought you were referring to the fact he didn't go with the 30 minutes with hordes.
Tedium=/=difficulty.
>>26789077
>a tiny handful of highly niche examples are enough to validate an absolutely retarded game mechanic that puts artificial barriers to competitive play
>>26791629
You know you don't HAVE to have a 100% perfectly trained team, right? Getting through singleplayer doesn't require any time be put into that. People who want to go the extra mile and get more out of it will spend the effort to do it.
If you don't want to put the time into it, then don't EV train your Pokemon, simple as that. If you just want to hit a button and get instant gratification then go buy some virtual gems to spend in some shitty mobile game.
>>26788590
>hard to control
Not in gen 6...
>>26788828
I'd support something like this.
Instead of altering stats, pokemon get one or two extra level up moves selected randomly from a list at hatch. Nothing crazy or overpowered, just a handful of moves that fit thematically with the pokemon but add a little element of uniqueness.
>>26788899
>hurr durr biking back and forth for hours just to play competitive makes me superior
>disagreeing means you're a casual and that's somehow bad
I think the reason bikefags are so nervous about dropping IVs is that the flood of new competitive players will simply oust the old guard in ability by sheer volume.
>>26791867
Pokemon's niche has always been connecting with other people. It's not about instant gratification, is about not forcing the player to play bike simulator if he wants to enjoy the most important feature of the games without getting stomped.
>>26791240
>not wanting IVs
>autistic
Think you got it backwards mate
>>26788590
To what degree, exactly, do IVs affect stats opposed to EVs?
>>26788602
Add another item that can lower them as well and we're good
>>26788572
>implying customization in an RPG is bad
>implying kids want to manually deal with a bunch of numbers and won't just dump it all into HP or attack
kys
>>26788770
That's a load of bullshit
A lot of pokemon have different options with EV's anon
EV's are fine
Fuck IV's though
Also fuck IV's for determining Hidden Power, that's a fucking drag
>>26788572
>what is shin megami tensei
>>26794674
31 IVs in a stat =
+31 points in that stat at Lv 100
+15 points in that stat at Lv 50
252 Evs in a stat =
+63 points in that stat at level 100
+31 points in that stat at level 50
>>26788540
IVs and EVs were only put in to make each pokemon unique, but all it does it make autists spend hours upon hours breeding and training for perfect stats. Surprised GameFreak didn't patch this yet in a world where Smogon exists.
>>26792034
>is about not forcing the player to play bike simulator if he wants to enjoy the most important feature of the games without getting stomped.
Have you ever played an RPG with PvP in it?
>>26794968
>Have you ever played an RPG with PvP in it?
Have you? Because I sure as hell haven't played an RPG where I needed to press the left and right keys on my keyboard repeatedly until RNG decided I could play.
IMO make all IV's capped in some sort of "ranked mode" so the competitive cucks don't have to make fakemon that already have maxs IVs. I genuinely enjoy breeding in the game.
>>26794987
......what?
