What are your opinions on smogon? I personally can't stand it or it's followers.
>>26772161
>i
>>26772161
It's fine, OU can be shit but it's other tiers are cool. They do make good bansoccasionally
What I've noticed anti Smogon Fags are the worst though, they bring up one small point and spam it in every thread.
Also VGC isn't any better
>>26772161
Competitive battling is shit anyways.
>>26772161
It... exists. I mean it's just a database/discussion forum for the pokemon meta. It's about as harmful as wikipedia.
The arbitrary tiers/rules can be off putting for some but it's not like the official competitions are any better.
>rng based game
>competitive
RU and under is fun as hell, OU has been boring since the beginning of time
>>26772169
>Greentext of a single letter
>Fedora post
It's like all the autism in the world was condensed into a single post.
>>26772216
>>26772250
These people are objectively right.
>>26772216
Competitive battling is the only thing interesting about Pokemon nowadays
They are good for ev spreads and builds. Absolute dogshit for everything else.
>>26772297
not after gen 6
>>26772329
It got alot beter on Gen 6
VGC 2014 was definetely the BEST meta Pokemon ever had
Shitloads of fun, allowed you to be innovative, Parchirisu on the fucking finals
I miss those days
Interesting example of a fandom (or at least a faction in a fandom) taking control of their hobby for themselves.
It's not my cup of coffee but good on them.
>>26772680
Correct that to early Gen VI
ORAS ruined that easily with all of the stuff it introduced
>>26772680
>Pachirisu
oh, you're one of those people
>>26772250
But anon, we got competitive Tetris...
>>26772161
Smogon is that kid in your neighborhood that stopped playing pokemon with you because "you're not playing the game right".
Face it, if the developers wanted a healthy meta, they would have forced updates in Gen VI for a healthy meta.
It's a community that tries to bring balance to the world of 6v6 Pokemon and create a format where every single Pokemon can be successful.
I cannot stand VGC - neither the current deer and friends meta nor the previous CHALK meta - or its followers but I do not find that a fault of VGC itself because that's personal preference. Bringing up the bad apples is irrelevant.
>>26772725
Megas made everything betetr and more dinamid that is how I like my eggs
>>26772742
Yes, a meta allowing the players to come up with great inventive strategies is great, the stuff we have now with 5 pokemons popping out in every team is a boner kill
>>26772780
That is the point that most people dont notice
Pokemon wasnt made with 6v6 in mind, Smogon balances it
>or at least tries
>>26772786
Primal Groudon didn't make anything better
Its in a gray spot for me.
Tiers are alright, but I hate people who only see tiers
Trying to battle a guy and it turns out the mons I'm using is OU or some shit so he refuses to battle.
Most Smogon "users" tend to be really defensive and throw a fit if you speak negatively about Smogon.
>>26772806
I was talking about VGC 2014, pay atention anon
VGC 2016 was a good idea but poorly executeda af
They try, they really do, but pokemon is inherently unbalanced.
>>26772836
I know that's why I said correct your statement of it got a lot better on gen 6 to early gen 6. VGC 2016 is still Gen 6 and was trash because of the new stuff introduced in ORAS
>>26772857
Yeah but you have to see what meta you are talking about
If it is VGC 2014 or VGC 2015 it doesnt make any difference that Primal Groudon exists eventhou it`s all 6 gen
Usually the first Meta of each generation it`bettter ebcause they can get rid of the degeneracy that is the International Pokedex and build their own Dex that works within what they planned for the meta to be
The site itself isn't bad, good database. I don't use the battle sim anymore, it got old and half the fun is being a real pokemon trainer, but if that's your game thats your game. The teirs are mostly crap, well not really, just when outside of smogon rules. They are terrible when you play battle spot singles and doubles, because the meta is very different, namely much less stealth rocks, item clause and a very different banlist.
Honestly its the people to far into either camp, be it smogon or VGC/online that make the subject annoying.
>>26772250
Competitive poker exists.
Best thing to happen to /vp/ t b h
>>26772934
Smogon has been around since before /vp/ though
It's garbage. Its all about having stall dominate. You only ever see offensive Pokemon banned. Any non-stall player who plays smogon is either a child or an idiot who doesn't realize they're at a giant disadvantage.
I think its silly to pin it on just Smogon users, competitivefags in general are extremely obnoxious.
The problem I have with smogon is the influence it has on people's self entitlements. It's OK for them to use their fav mon and build a team of strong shit within a tier around it. But you're not allowed to use a single pokemon in a tier above theirs, if you do it makes you a cheap, tasteless etc. I find that if you're not that caring about smogon, the person who supports smogon tries enforcing the "rules" they have on you. Even if they don't do that, they still feel like they have some sort of validation for winning or losing against a team with mon in higher tiers?
Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with smogon itself if they keep it within their own community. But you see people shit talking like "you can't x or y because that's an uber". Like, no, that shit doesn't belong here, so kindly fuck off back to smogon where it actually means something.
VGC is a shitstorm but you know, if you don't like ubers or you don't like using pokemon to win then don't complain. Use stronger pokemon or don't bitch. It's literally the same concept as smogon, you wanna use NU shit so you go into the NU tier and use whatever you want to win. You wanna do VGC? then use shit that will win it for you. I have beaten tons of shit with a single vivillon because they don't know how capable that thing is and underestimate it. If I lost to an uber in vgc then whose fault is it that I was stomped on? My own.
tl;dr smogon is fine if they would just shut the fuck up outside of their own site. Similarly, we need to shut the fuck up about them.
>>26772939
Smogon wants a reactive game not a proactive one
>fucking bullshit
>>26772250
>sport that involves gravity, air resistance, and friction amongst other factors
>competitive
>>26772797
Whatever it was made in mind with sure as hell isn't balanced either
>>26772161
Usually check their site for movesets and spreads when I'm unsure about those.
Other than that it's an unofficial ruletset for a children's game, who cares?
>>26772161
Smogon is doing as much as can be done to bring balance to a game that is almost unbalancable. To an extent, Smogon even goes beyond actual pokemon in making the game accessible to newcomers by allowing their favorites to shine, and removing some of the more frustrating features of battles.
There was an old man in ORAS's battle resort that up and said it after almost 20 years. You might have to use pokemon you don't like to win. Karenfags btfo by some dude, and whatnot. Smogon tries its darndest to make each pokemon usable in some form.
I think of "Smogon Rules" as a gentlemen's agreement to make the game more fun and interesting.
Where this goes wrong is when people attempt to enforce such a gentlemen's agreement on another. That just isn't how it works. Following or not following Smogon Rules doesn't make you a better or worse person, and holding others to optional rules when they didn't agree to them is ridiculous.
The way Smogon suspect checks does favor stall. It is much easier to see that a pokemon is overpowered when it OHKO's everything than when it just sits there, after all.
Some Smogon users, especially newfags to it, have a tendency to carry an air of pretension and superiority about them, and refuse to battle with anyone once they see the words "Double Team" show up on screen. This minority gives the community a bad name, as people begin to associate all of Smogon with similar assumptions.
Smogon does fine work, and is fun to base your games around. I know I'm not alone when I say that playing against a Dark Void spamming Darkrai or Smeargle for the umpteenth time gets annoying quickly, and sometimes I just want to use Farfetch'd for more than revenge fodder.
>>26772680
Alright, kiddo. Pachirisu wasn't there because the guy liked it, it was there because it supplied a unique niche to his team. He needed a way to draw fire from Gyarados, and the meta was overprepared for Amoongus. Pachirisu just happened to be the only Follow Me user that didn't suck donkey balls.
Pachirisu was chosen for cold, hard, meta-sensitive reasons.
I like using shitmons so by playing pu or nu i dont immediately get rekt by talonflame or some other shit. If you dont care about smogon, just dont
>>26774392
Well played Anon... I usually refer to Smogon as raw faggotry, but you gave a good explanation on things. I would still rather take a bullet to the dick then play on Smogon fucking ever, but you do it a service. Biggest trigger about Smogon is the ban list. It's quite autistic and full of fail, just like every other shitshow like VGC, but you and you alone have given me a slightly better opinion about Smogon as a whole. Good day to you.
>>26774510
>full of fail
This is your typical smogon hater.
>>26772161
See >>26772849
/tg/ gets into this all the time. MtG and 40K are other games that aren't really "balanced" in the sense that every option is viable, and people accordingly spend an inordinate amount of time trying to find an optimal solution. Metagames form around those, informing people's choices for how to "attack the meta", further limiting viable options for competitive play. And for me at least, Pokemon as with wargames and cardgames was more fun when my friends and I just used the cards/minis/mons we liked rather than using what a bunch of other nerds we'll never meet figured out was good in a "competitive metagame".
>>26774581
"more fun when my friends and I just used the cards/minis/mons we liked rather than using what a bunch of other nerds we'll never meet figured out was good in a "competitive metagame"."
This is the thing.
GF should resolve this by making separete rooms or sthg..
>>26772780
Replace the ubers with Chansey, Sabeleye, Clefable etc. and high tier Smogon teams look exactly like this.
>>26774392
>Smogon is doing as much as can be done to bring balance to a game that is almost unbalancable
>I think of "Smogon Rules" as a gentlemen's agreement to make the game more fun and interesting
I've always found this reasoning to support them funny
As someone who's played both Smogon and official rules extensively, I never found official rules to be unbalanced or less fun at all (bar this year's VGC, but allowing legends is a one-off rarity). And this isn't just doubles, this includes Battle Spot singles which has Smogon's favourite banned mons like Kangaskhan and Mega Gengar. It's actually surprising how balanced the game is by default when the only rules are no box legends, no mythicals, item clause and species clause.
That leads to my biggest problems I've learned about them, which is that they don't let metagames evolve/adapt due to the "well we can just ban it" mentality, and have really dumb views on how the game should be played due to most of their players not knowing anything outside of 6v6 singles.
>>26774762
Yes. That's why smogon doesn't replace ubers with stall.
Stall might be shit but its balanced. There are multiple ways to beat passive defensive teams. Kanga and friends can only be matched by Kanga and friends.
>>26773213
I have beaten tons of shit with a single vivillon because they don't know how capable that thing is and underestimate it.
Reminds me of a certain vgc youtuber
>>26774868
Smogon tiers have a lot more variety than VGC tiers actually.
How long do you expect people to wait before deciding "hmm kangaskhan is on every team, there might be a slight chance it's broken".
And do you honestly think pokemon is inherently balanced? Come on now.
>>26772161
I don't mind smogon, I like playing uu or ru every once in a while.
The shitflinging between pro/anti smogonfags is pretty retarded
>>26772161
I think its nice some guys did all the hard work for us trying to create a balance in this clusterfuck of a metagame. Most Smogon haters are retards that dont ever play anything besides OU thats why they whine about lack of variety in strategy and shit.
>>26772161
I don't care about their retarded tier system at all, it is beyond fucking stupid.
That being said they are responsible for showdown and thats pretty great, I just wish they had a battlespot rules 6v6, I like to play 6v6 sometimes but OU is literally the worst tier to be in after all the recent bans. i can't even use aegislash.
>>26775337
B-but there is no 6v6 battlespot. Battlespot is all 3v3 singles of 4v4 dubs. That's like asking for Battlespot triples or VGC singles.
>>26775368
Obviously just means a hypothetical 6v6 that would use the standard official rules and bans, also there is Battle Spot triples
>>26775384
Just play Ubers?
>>26775391
No?
I don't use legendary mons, thats like asking to lose.
>>26775391
Are you sure you understand what standard official rules are?
>>26774409
Right, it was a creative use of a Pokemon no one expected to see, brought about by conditions of a metagame this guy liked. Nowhere did he say it was chosen because it's super cyuuuuute~~~~~ or whatever.
>>26772161
I like it. It's fast and easy to play on showdown and I prefer single battles. Overall I think they do a good job to balance it and some of the stuff like the sleep clause seems pretty mandatory for good gameplay.
I have actually never heard any argument for why it's bad besides "I prefer VGC so everyone who plays something else is stupid".
>>26772680
2014 was an awful meta. Innovation was almost non-existent due to the limited dex format. Pachirisu wasn't even a niche pick because it was the only other viable redirection user in the format besides Amoonguss.
People act like genies in 2015 were bad even though Chomp and Zapdos were almost as ubiquitous in 2014.
>>26772797
>Pokemon wasnt made with 6v6 in mind
You always see people claiming this, and while VGC uses bring-6-pick-4 doubles as the official meta, saying that Pokémon is balanced around that seems like a stretch to me.
The standard battle format of the mainline games has always been 6v6 singles since the beginning, with the next most common battle type in game being 3v3 singles. You hardly even see doubles in game, so claiming things are in general balanced for doubles is questionable.
But probably you don't mean balanced in general but balanced for competitive play. That leads us to another point: Doubles (let alone B6P4 doubles) is not obviously more balanced than 6v6 singles. Smogon OU has more viable Pokémon than VGC, I'm pretty sure, and I don't think a hypothetical VGC singles (no event Pokémon, two legendaries per team) would have fewer viable Pokémon either.
The main advantage of B6P4 doubles is that matches are quick, stall is an unviable playstyle and it is not as matchup dependent as something like B6P3 singles. It has little to do with balance in my opinion.
>>26773213
The problem, my underaged newfriend, is that even before there was an official comoetitive scene, Smogon OU with sleep clause and a few others became known as standard rules for the people who played competitively, so it carried over.
>>26775517
>The standard battle format of the mainline games has always been 6v6 singles since the beginning, with the next most common battle type in game being 3v3 singles. You hardly even see doubles in game, so claiming things are in general balanced for doubles is questionable.
There's a clear distinction they make between in-game and competitive. The game lets you use all 6 of your Pokemon during the story sure, but opposing trainers almost never have a full team of 6 and you can freely use 6 Arceus or whatever you want. It's only when you use battle facilities or play ranked online matches that 6v6 is thrown out the window.
About what they balance for, it's hard to say. They've said they use VGC worlds results as something they look at to make changes in the future, but never specifically that doubles is all they balance for. I would say they certainly do make changes with 3v3 singles in mind as well considering it's by far their most played format online, and probably don't put much effort into triples or rotations
I find Battle Spot Singles more enjoyable than smogon rules, overall
Then again I haven't bothered with playing on lower Smogon tiers in a good while
>>26772161
Rules are fine
Followers are the purest unfiltered form of autism out there
