![1466125443411[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/2LlvCjC.png "1466125443411[1].png")
Is it just /v/ or do you guys not like this either? Personally I get tired of having to look up what special snowflake dual type is resistant to what. Or what some non-intuitive type like dragon or psychic is weak to.
if you can turn it off its fine
everyone looks it up in multiplayer anyway
It will fuck up the single player though
>>26771918
Because not knowing something as basic as type effectiveness was totally part of the difficulty before.
>>26771918
I think it's a good thing. It lowers the entry barrier to competitive, same with the stat ups and drops being g visible now.
Plus, in single player you only see effectiveness after you've already fought a Mon, so >>26771918 can stop being a faggot
>>26771898
I think we might get the option to turn it off in single player. About multiplayer I feel that would be just like "set" and "shift" battle style, it should be unavailable there
>>26771942
>>26771925
You can't guess a Pokemons type just by looking it, nor are you likely to remember it after the first time.
>>26771955
>It should be unavailable in multiplayer
I'm sorry, are you fucking dumb? Multiplayer is where it should absolutely be. It lowers the standards of entry so more people can easily access competitive battling, same as the tracking of stat ups/drops
Don't he a cunt, anon
>>26771942
>one shot a mon
>you now know everything it is weak and resistant to
Wow, having to fight it first certainly makes a difference
>>26771990
It should be in multi and not in single player if anything. e.g. an endgame upgrade.
>>26771961
And that's the whole point of this being here, you dumb fuck.
It lowers standards so people can more easily get into the game and so faggots like us don't have to memorize the type chart.
I personally don't give a fuck.
But if it make faggots angry for some reason then i welcome it.
>>26772009
I'd be okay with this.
Not having it in multiplayer though would be a fucking sin.
>>26772010
So you are a dumb casual? Why call me dumb? You clearly can't remember shit and need hand holding. Babby tier.
>>26771990
Congratulations, you just made Bronzong and Zoroark useless in battle. And every other Pokemon that relies on similar ability
>>26772035
You know it's already confirmed for multiplayer right? It was in the Battle Royal
>>26771961
>nor are you likely to remember it after the first time.
Are you fucking retarded?
First, you need to battle and catch a pokemon before you can know which moves are SE against it.
Second, everyone remembers typings, it's basically the fucking game.
You are expected to remember that swords are weak to spears the first time you fucking see them.
>>26772035
If you're really dumb enough to think that it's going to take into account anything more than just its typing, then you need to increase the world's average IQ by a couple of point and blast your brains out.
>>26772030
>Babby tier
>Babby
Oh look, another faggot from reddit who thinks he's edgy and cool for cussing on 4chan.
Go jerk off to another Minecraft video, you stupid cunt.
>>26772035
Git gud faggot
>>26772035
it doesnt take into account abilities
in fact, this already exists in B2/W2
What about pokemon with abilities like Levitate and Sap Sipper? Will it still display as "effective"/"super effective"?
In multiplayer it would harm pokémon with two abilities (for example, Bronzong can have Levitate or Heat Proof).
>>26772035
Fucking dumbass, as if they're going to tell you what ability the opponent has, much less on a Zoroark.
Zoroark is disguised as a different pokemon, you aren't going to see that it's a dark type.
Lol this is the same shit as when people go on serebii or whatever to look up types of certain pokemon (like how I thought scrafty was ground type until recent). Just takes the time off using google.
>>26772091
>First, you need to battle and catch a pokemon before you can know which moves are SE against it.
No you don't, you only need to fight it once. You are clearly uninformed. Even if you run from the fight I don't expect it will be any different.
You can literally just see it once and that's it.
>Second, everyone remembers typings, it's basically the fucking game.
Okay, tell me everything a Klefki is weak and resistant to off the top of your head? Can't do it can you?
Just shut up.
>>26772126
Probably, yes. It won't display abilities, so those will stay competitively viable.
>>26772154
>Scrafty isn't Ground type
>It doesn't get Overcoat despite the Pokedex saying that it uses its old skin for that purpose
>>26772105
>babby is a cuss word
what the fuck am I reading
I actually wonder what it's going to say about things like Bronzong.
Like, you hit it with Earthquake, and then it says "Super Effective" but then next time you use Earthquake this one has Levitate, would it still say "Super Effective"?
>>26772167
>Tell me everything Klefki is weak to off the top of your head
Weak to fire and ground, idiot.
Immune to poison and dragon
Resists everything bar water, electric, ghost and fighting.
>>26772167
Klefki is weak to Fire and Ground and resists everything except Electric, Water, Fighting, Ghost, and Steel. You're actually retarded if you don't know the type chart by this point.
>>26772181
Babby isn't a cuss word, it's reddit-tier garbage speak.
Nice samefagging, also
>>26772105
>Oh look, another faggot from reddit who thinks he's edgy and cool for cussing on 4chan.
>Go jerk off to another Minecraft video, you stupid cunt.
> thinks he's edgy and cool for cussing on 4chan.
>you stupid cunt.
Oh my god... who brings these people here?
Overall, I appreciate the feature. I still can't for the life of me remember all the weaknesses and resistances for Fairy type.
I don't see what the big issue is. It just saves time for those that can't remember all the type match ups.
>>26771990
I am all for stat changes showing, but I still see it as if you wanted shift battle style in multiplayer because it would be easier.
In the end I don't really mind how it shows, it was just how I felt it would be
Literally it came in the box with the gen 1 games.
>>26772279
No dual types and shit back then (to the same degree anyway)
>>26772307
>No dual types
Is this b8? That part is just simple math.
>>26772228
>>26772105
You sound like an expert on Reddit.
reminder there are people that actually want the game to be made easier
>>26772307
>no dual types
>Bulbasaur, the literally first pokemon in the dex, was Grass/Poison
>>26772357
Reminder that type effectiveness being displayed is the most innocuous thing they could possibly do to reduce difficulty
I can't believe there's so many retards who use Normal attacks on a Rock type and think it's part of the difficulty
>>26772370
Can you even read?
>>26772105
>Being literally this new
>>26772357
>ignorance is difficulty
lol killyourself
So recap.
>Doesn't show effectiveness for first encounter with a pokemon, retaining the surprise effect of first seeing it.
>Doesn't account for abilities.most likely anyway.
>Stops children in online battles using thunderbolt on your gliscor or flamethrower on your florges.
Now given the last point, how is this making the games easier? If anything its harder now that the retards will be making less retarded moves.
![qml-tic-tac-toe-example[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/yX2ICR6.png "qml-tic-tac-toe-example[1].png")
>>26772392
It is difficulty you dumb fuck. No one would ever play pic related if it had "SUPER EFFECTIVE" on the squares because every game would tie.
>>26772422
Because the people saying that the games will be easier are those retards using ineffective moves
>>26772433
lol kill yourself.
>>26772422
>>Doesn't show effectiveness for first encounter with a pokemon, retaining the surprise effect of first seeing it.
Yeah, the first time you see it...
Even though you might just run from it. After that you know everything about it.
>>26772457
>lol no argument better just ad hominem because I lost hard
>>26772469
so?
>>26772492
your argument was retarded, ties don't happen in pokemon.
>>26772433
The difficulty in PvP comes from trying to out-predict the opponent.
The difficulty in single player comes from trying to do damage while minimizing damage to your own Pokemon, which requires knowledge of the type chart and what moves the opponent has.
Displaying type effectiveness means nothing.
>>26772469
>old games
>use Water Gun on a Sandshrew
>It's Super Effective!
>know that for the rest of time because it's basic fucking information
>new games
>fight a Sandshrew for the second time
>Water Gun is shown to be super effective
>know that for the rest of time because it's basic fucking information
seriously, the type chart came with the games >>26772279
>>26771898
How is psychic 'non-intuitive'? Theyre literally just weak to things people are afraid of: Dark, bug, ghost.
>>26772501
It's not about ties, learn how games are designed. Or rather don't bother, your IQ is too low if you can't grasp the point.
>>26772523
Your IQ is pretty low if you're trying to compare fucking Tic-Tac-Toe with Pokemon games
Most Tic-Tac-Toe games end up as a tie if you've ever played for more than an hour, because there's only ever two or three different moves your opponent could make that would be effective
I was under the impression that you didn't know the effectiveness of a move on a Pokemon until you specifically used that move on it, not just encountered it.
For example: You encounter a Steel Pokemon. You use Tackle on it, not very effective, rest of the battle and future encounters Tackle and other Normal type moves are listed as "Ineffective".
Later you encounter the same Steel type, and when you use a Bug type move against it, it doesn't warn you ahead of time that the move is ineffective - but after you use the move, it does.
Correct me if I'm wrong
>>26772566
You are wrong, watch the video like everyone else. It is on a per Pokemon basis and you only have to see it once.
>>26772566
Nope
if you look at the OP's image, Disarming Voice is listed as Not Very Effective against Litten, despite Popplio not knowing it in the first battle against Litten
>>26772307
You're grasping at straws. True, newer games have more complex (meaning, obscure) dual types but that's literally only because there are many obscure pokemon with obscure typings. You'll see a Drapion like twice max in game. By the second encounter you'll cease to care about "oh man I gotta put on my thinking cap for this one!" and just want to know how to kill it.
>>26771898
Tons of other modern RPGs do this I don't see why it's causing such a shitstorm.
>>26772577
>>26772589
Missed that, thank you
Honestly I'd prefer it if it was the way I thought, but even though I'm not the biggest fan of it it won't make or break my liking of the game
>>26772619
I can't think of anything.
SMT/Persona does it but it's not the same because the weaknesses and resistances change on a per monster basis, there's no type chart.
FFXIII had autobattle which everyone said ruined everything because it was the only thing worth pushing.
Friendly reminder that the game's target audience is children and a lot of the dual-types are less intuitive today than they were during earlier gens. Not to mention now we have three more types than we did during gen 1, and it's going to be harder for children to memorize the typings of 700+ pokemon.
There are still a few pokemon where even I can't remember their dual-type off the top of my head.
Why the fuck is Golurk Ghost/Ground? No seriously, why? How isn't it at least half Steel?
>>26773535
Golurk is based on Golems, which were made of clay.
>>26771996
But you already beat it, you already know how to beat it, why does it matter if the game tells you
>>26773564
If you already know how to beat it, why does the game need to tell you?
WHO FUCKING CARES
GOD WHY DO I COME HERE
Just for the record op was asking if the general consensus on this is "dislike". Pretty sure op is in support of it, which is fine. I don't know why people have to be "hardcore" (huge joke it's a Pokemon game you sad fucks) and what's wrong about being casual. Why is it expected of people to remember what's to be 800 Pokémon types - especially the dual types. Even remembering the type chart is a rather pointless and trivial thing. It's not really holding anyone's hand, we all looked at charts at some point so what's the difference? Are you all upset that you're 30 and your useless skill at knowing types is now redundant? You people need lives if you seriously think it's important. Besides they still have to figure out which Pokémon to send out at the right time anyway. It literally has a marginal impact on your stupid metagame that you use Pokémon showdown for anyway? Get a grip people.
>>26773535
This.
I dropped the series after Gen III and got back into it when I got Y as a gift. It really is more of a clusterfuck than it seems to you guys.
>>26774294
If you can one-shot it, what difference does the game telling you make?
>>26772566
Move effectiveness being shown is based on the pokemon already on the pokedex. If it's not on the pokedex, then the game doesn't show it unless you already attack it.
>>26771898
I don't see the big deal.
For one thing, the game is marketed towards children.
For another, you have 17 types and over 600 Pokemon. I've been playing for 10 years and sometimes I still forget some type weaknesses like bug and poison.
I don't care, because I'd already know what it'd tell me
>>26776796
>I still forget some type weaknesses
Then you don't deserve to hit them super effectively. Holy shit how is this hard to understand?
>I've been playing shooters for 10 years, and sometimes I still miss people!
>The game should just aim for me!
Holy fuck.
>>26776796
>I still forget some type weaknesses
But really guys, this is casual babby tier shit. Next up - autobattle function. Because really, who can be bothered trying to figure out what combination of moves to use?
>>26773535
Wow, god forbid you actually have to think about what moves to use in an RPG.
>>26776873
>I've been playing shooters for 10 years, and sometimes I still miss people!
>The game should just aim for me!
Really a bad comparison. In pokemon case the cause of the mistake is the memory of the player, while in the shooter is the skill of the player.
>Then you don't deserve to hit them super effectively
This may be the most retarded argument I ever heard. Critical hits exist and no player deserve them. Also a victory against someone who doesn't remember the type chart it's no true victory, but just luck( it won't happen in a high rank match)
>>26776913
If you already know the type chart, like many here do, this change nothing. if you don't, this help you, but skilled players know that the SE moves it's not always the best( SE non-STAB Aerial Ace vs neutral STAB Return)
>>26772035
It actually could really help Zoroark
This series has devolved into literally needing no thought anymore. Fuck this entire franchise. I'm out.
>>26777029
See you tomorrow
>>26777029
See ya tomorrow
>>26777008
memory is skill, especially in turn based games
>>26777029
See you when S/M comes out
>>26772167
Fire and Ground, resistant to Dark, Dragon (immune), Poison (Immune), Grass, Psychic, Rock, Flying, Ice, and Bug.
Neutral to Water, Electric, Fighting (Fairy resists, Steel weak) and Ghost.
>>26777008
Memory IS a skill you stupid faggot, especially in an RPG.
It is NOT luck to beat somebody because you demonstrated better knowledge of the game than them. Critical hits are random by nature, whereas type modifiers are fixed and exploiting them is a fundamental skill in this game, just like aiming in a shooter. You are a stupid fuck.
>>26777048
>memory is a skill
lol
I don't see the fuss
Who on /vp/ seriously doesn't have the type chart and every pokemon's types memorised?
>>26777092
Read the thread. Clearly a lot of people. And this is on a dedicated Pokemon community.
And these same people argue that it's not dumbing the game down. Hilarious.
>>26777074
Aiming and shooting a gun in an FPS is not the same as memorizing a type chart. Like, at all. The skill in moves lies primarily in deciding what you give your Pokemon. That's the strategy. That's the skill. Not knowing water beats fire. It's a factor but its only a fraction of the overarching skill. If someone doesn't know what types you need to be hitting, it doesn't help to know what moves you already have do.
>>26777072
>responding to a 13 hours old post
>forgetting Fairy among the resistances
You are a special kind of retard, you know that?
>>26777108
This isn't an fps. shoot yourself
>>26777110
He's just proving the point by getting it wrong.
>>26777108
That's like saying the skill in shooters is knowing what guns to equip. If you fail to use them correctly then you don't deserve to win. If you don't have to think about what moves to use in an RPG, the game might as well just play itself.
It's not it's hard to guess a pokemon's type from how it looks
>is it on fire? - obviously a Fire type
>does it look like an aquatic animal? - obviously a Water type
>does it have plants on it? - obviously a Grass type
>does it have rocks on it? - probably a Rock type
>is it made of metal? - probably a Steel type
>does it look mean? - probably a Dark type
The only types this ever becomes hard to do with are Fairy/Dragon/Fighting because there is no hard and fast rule to the type
>>26777108
Stop the FPS comparison it's horrible. Compare it to recommended moves in Chess instead. Oh look, getting help in Chess is banned in any serious play.
Think about it.
>>26777123
It's true that he got it wrong, but you don't have to recite every modifier in game, you just have to think about your opponent's type, and it's much easier to remember that way. I guarantee he would remember fairy resistance if he was using a steel type against a fairy.
>>26777126
YES, actually, yes, that's exactly the equivalent. It's knowing what guns to equip. That's a perfectly important strategy in FPS, and one that translates almost exactly to Pokemon, as opposed to something that's extremely reflex based on like aiming and shooting in an FPS. The equivalent to that in Pokemon is picking a move. Those aren't equivalent actions in practice so comparing them doesn't work. it's like saying pointing your mouse to click an icon on the computer is the same as trying to shoot somebody in an FPS.
>>26777139
>Pokemon
>Like chess
ayyy lamo
>>26777152
Yes, I suppose it's more like an FPS isn't it? You are dumb.
>>26777138
There's a few that doesn't work for, like Pineco
>>26771898
>this thing is not gonna work with abilities guise !!
lmao denialfags
>>26777138
This. People who unironically defend this casualization are children themselves.
>>26777139
Why are you getting upset at me?? I wasn't the one who made the initial comparison, and even said in that post that as used it doesn't work. I would have never brought it up on my own. Chess isn't even in the same league as Pokemon. Besides sort of loose stuff like the level of intended competition and the target players of them, Chess is all about revealed information. Everyone knows everything, and you know all the pieces. there is no customization aspect in chess because it eliminates all outside interference. Thats the design of the game's purpose. You can pick what your pieces do in Pokemon, and you have to be able to strategize about that. That's the layer that matters most. It doesn't matter if the game tells you a move is super effective or not if you didn't know to put that move up there in the first place, and the information doesn't help people who are interested in learning about and becoming better in the game by itself. That person will want to learn why the moves are effective or not, and will plan and develop movesets to cover weaknesses. This person would not rely on the effectiveness tag.
For everyone else, it's there, and it helps them, and that's okay. Not everyone needs to be interested in doing better at Pokemon. Some people just play these games as a pass time. They're not the ones that want to learn about types and moves and stuff. And this feature appeals to them. If a feature helps casuals and doesn't hinder people who really want to learn about the game, where is the downside?
>>26777138
>>26777202
Shitty argument: no one who has never played pokemon could guess Lucario and Mawile are Steel types
>>26777149
It IS the same in terms of being the primary skill required for the genre you gigantic retard. Knowing what icon to click is all that RPG gameplay amounts to, and if you just fucking tell the player what to press the game might as well play itself, just like if an FPS aimed for you.
Once again, holy fuck, it's not complicated. Use your fucking brain.
>>26777213
>Why are you getting upset at me??
Who the fuck are you talking to? I didn't even read this whole thread.
tldr the rest of the shit you posted.
>>26777213
The person still has to fucking think about what move is effective in the current situation. The new system removes that aspect completely, and drastically reduces room for error. It is objectively dumbing the game down.
Furthermore someone just going through story mode won't always deliberately equip moves, but the game will still tell them what move to use. So you can scream all you want that "story mode was already easy!" but you are basically conceding that you think story mode might as well play itself.
>>26771898
I just hope we can turn it off. If there's no option for it, maybe the difficulty of battles will compensate for that, but who am I kidding? Well, one can dream.
>>26777241
But only knowing which moves is supereffective is not enough in pokemon.
Think of Talonflame vs Bisharp, if Talonflame use Flare Blitz and it's not at full HP Bisharp Sucker Punch could KO. The game is only telling you which move is supereffective not the best one
>>26777270
This.
>>26777241
>Knowing what icon to click is all that RPG gameplay amounts to,
That's what it "amounts to", but that isn't the "primary skill required" for playing the genre, as opposed to FPS. Clicking Water Gun is not the same as targeting and shooting and all the other aspects it takes to be successful at an FPS. They're not even equivalent actions, besides the fact that while both are the end result one is the core gameplay while the other is not. Picking the move in Pokemon is like throwing out paper in RPS. That's not the part where the strategy lies. The strategy lies in trying to figure out what the opponent will do and picking a move based on that. It's the same in Pokemon, except you can customize your scissors to do many different things that affect how it beats paper.
>>26777286
>difficulty of battles
I'm expecting gym leaders to have 3 Pokemon. Rivals with 3 Pokemon. Shit AI. Shit movesets for everyone other than the Elite Four and Champ. I'm pretty much just buying this for the new pokegirls and music.
>>26777302
You are unbelievably retarded, holy shit.
TACTILE SKILL IS NOT THE ONLY KIND OF SKILL. FPS requires tactile skill. RPGs require strategic skill. Removing the need for strategic decisions is like removing the need for tactile skill in FPS.
I cannot simplify this anymore.
>>26777270
A person who makes their movesets already know what moves are effect. This doesn't benefit them at all. And if the person is literally only clicking moves that say "super effective" they probably won't beat the more skilled player either 9 times out of 10. In fact that'd honestly make them even easier to beat.
Same applies to story mode. Sure, it's technically dumbing it down, but not for anybody that matters. I repeat that there is downside for people who genuinely care about the game, and all upside for people who just want to play Pokemon to be hip with the nerds or to get a quick RPG fix or whatever. Some moves you just get, yeah. but it's still an "accident" or "coincidence" at that point if the tags are crippling their mental ability so much to the point that they can't understand types at all without the tags.
>>26777338
And the strategic skill in Pokemon lies in choosing movesets, natures, abilities ,etc. which this doesn't help people with, not knowing to click a water move when you see a Fire pokemon. This is like saying the primary skill in RPS is knowing paper beats rock when the meat is actually elsewhere and that's merely the "rules" of the game.
>>26777356
>I repeat that there is downside
No downside
>>26771898
the Chinese players will appreciate this. That's all GF cares about.
It's fine btw
>>26777356
Knowing what moves are effective in theory is not the same as using them in practice. You can equip Psychic to deal with poison types but if you happen to forget that Drapion is part dark, then you fucking deserve to make that mistake. That is on you.
Likewise you might equip Earthquake to deal with electric types, but if you forget that it's also super effective against Drapion, the neglect is on you. The game shouldn't just tell you HEY USE THIS ATTACK. Or if you equip Thunderbolt and think Gigalith is immune to it, that's your mistake to make.
Like I said, this is removing thought that you have to put into your moves, which is what RPGs are all about.
Yes, there is more to it than super effectiveness. Maybe it's not like auto-aim. But it IS like making bullet hitboxes stupidly huge with soft lock on everywhere, or prompts telling you when to shoot. You are defending significantly dumbing the game down further and that's all there is to it.
It's in Persona 5 too oddly enough
>>26771898
I'm totally with you, Anon. Honestly some of my friends seem a bit put off by this at first, but it's only pointing out what's already there. Chances are this information wont show up in online battles, and if it does, so what? That information is just one google search away, anyways. Hell, in pokemon showdown, you can request type effectiveness information in the damn chat. Relying on mistakes made by the enemy player, or off hand knowledge, is stupid. It doesn't change anything, it only points out what's already there.
>>26777448
>Relying on mistakes made by the enemy player, or off hand knowledge, is stupid.
That is literally the basis of competitive games.
I am going to miss dumbies not knowing what to hit ludicolo with.
>>26777411
It is your mistake, but assuming an opponent or player would be dumb enough to make that mistake is not conducive. We can assume everyone will be at their absolute dumbest and this still wouldn't help them. They can just put all psychic and non attack moves and then they're stuck with that guy as their last Pokemon against that Drapion and they still fucked up. That's admittedly a lot more hyperbolic but assuming the worst of most players is exactly why we got this feature in the first place. The players that we should care about won't be the ones using Psychic on Drapion because they'd know with or without this function that Drapion would be immune because they'd want to learn about the game and know why this feature is tellin them their strongest Psychic attack won't hurt the Drapion so they can put something on there to cover it.
Prompts telling you when to shoot would be pretty inoffensive by the way. In fact if we really want to keep using this comparison that'd probably be exactly the same as this. The FPS player still has to have the skill and reflexes to get the reticule on point. It's superfluous at that point. Kind of how I feel about this. It's virtually meaningless for people who are interested in getting better at the game. I don't think it's like the former at all though. That'd more like... I guess giving Pokemon coverage moves by level up or something to deal with their weaknesses. Or something. This comparison just doesn't really work on any level. FPS are a pretty different beast altogether.
I'm not necessarily "defending" it, I'm not saying I think this feature necessarily improves anything that matters or was anything anybody wanted or asked for. I do think there is very, very little downside however and I think this problem is being vastly, vastly overstated.
>>26777417
Not even close to being the same. Persona enemies are all completely unique in terms of weaknesses, the monsters don't correspond to one or two elements like Pokemon.
>>26777448
>hurr why should kids work on their hw when they can just google the answers
That's the equivalent of your argument.
Kill yourself.
>>26777514
People don't just "can", they already "do".
>>26777514
So how did to figure if out as a kid?
>>26777531
I'm sure he totally spammed different moves until he found the one that worked like a real man instead of looking for it in the instruction booklet.
>>26777518
And those are the ones who fail life and are doing nothing to progress humanity forward. Is this the sort of world you want, anon?
>>26777576
I didn't make this world, I just live in it
I'm fine with this. Not knowing a type matchup was never "difficulty," just "inconvenience." Reducing inconvenience is a good thing.
>>26777499
Yes, no shit it's a different thing. The thing about analogies is the two objects don't have to overlap in every single way, just in the aspect you're explaining. The giant bullet hitbox is more apt, but either way you are just being fucking pedantic about the analogy to deflect the point, which is that it's a feature that drastically reduces the skill required to beat an opponent.
>the playes we should care about
So now you're ignoring a major demographic to suit your argument. No, it fucking matters that the game is much easier to everyone. And there is a major fucking difference between having to actually make a mistake, learning from it and committing it to memory, and the game literally telling you not to make the mistake. Again, drastically reducing room for error, making an already easy game even easier to the point where it might as well play itself.
>>26777671
I agree that it was mostly a nonfactor previously as there have always been plenty of resources to learn type effectiveness on the fly but I dunno if I agree that it's just "inconvenience". I think it's more like, knowing the rules. That's important but rules should be easy to pick and learn on the go because they aren't the "fun part". This technically makes it easier but in a way things SHOULD be made easier.
>>26777138
>does it look mean? - probably a Dark type
Yungoos confirmed for Dark Type
>>26777711
Fuck off. They could have just added a type chart to the pokedex that you can reference in battle. At least you would still have to think and make the connections yourself. This is just literally telling you what buttons to press.
>>26771898
It's just /v/, no one gives a fuck about this shit
>>26777514
if i don't remember a formula, i'm going to fucking google it, yes
>>26776873
>Then you don't deserve to hit them super effectively. Holy shit how is this hard to understand?
You do know that many, many different RPGs have done this right? Also just because something is SE doesn't mean it's the best course of action especially when Thick Fat and others exist.
If anything arguing that it's a bad feature only proved you've only ever played Pokemon and you're not a good player of it at that.
>>26777750
No, there haven't. What RPGs have? SMT? That has far more complexity outside of types than Pokemon, so it's justified. Not to mention that it's not fixed.
>>26777697
Don't make an analogy if it doesn't work. Why you would ever make an analogy for a turn based role playing game to a shooter is beyond me, It's not my fault you chose to continue with it. I'm not "being pedantic" when the comparison is as broad as "a feature drastically reducing the skill required to beat an opponent", that could categorize a massive number of things that range from just telling the opponent the rules of RPS beforehand (after all, it's massively easier to defeat an opponent when they don't know what their doing means, right?), ignoring that it doesn't "drastically" do so and in fact probably makes THEM even easier to beat in real battles.
>So now you're ignoring a major demographic to suit your argument.
No, I'm actually saying the feature is inclusive, not exclusive, and I'm not sure how you could spin it in your head that I'm doing otherwise if you actually read what I'm saying. What I am saying is that the people we want to actually play with are not the ones who benefit from this feature, since they will know these things beyond just the fact that the game tells you so. And why should casuals and younger players have the game tell them what to do? Because it wasn't how we did it? This isn't going to ruin their development and stunt their mental growth or anything. It will entertain them easier for a short time, however, and the deeper strategies of pokemon will entertain them if they grow bored with that.
>>26777796
Fire Emblem did it too and it's actually less complicated than pokemon( for what concern the match-ups)
It's not that hard to learn the type chart and types of Pokemon anyway.
>>26771898
I don't see how it hurts. Hell I made a website for myself and friends to use so we don't have to dig though google or other websites to find type weakness, and this seems to take 1/2 the guess work out of it. All this shows is what the enemy is weak against, you still have to know what you are weak against.
to someone whos memorized the type chart as well as the typing of every pokemon, this is a slight eyesore
to everyone below this is a very useful change
of course if you ask people on here most will be against it
>>26777821
This thread is proof that plenty of people don't have it memorized as well as they think. You can't just say "it's trivial, except when it isn't."
>>26777839
>most will be against it
Actually aside from a few shitposters there hasn't really been many people opposing it.
>>26777856
This. It's just a vocal minority, there are better arguments than this to use against SM
>>26777816
The analogy works, you are just insisting it doesn't because you are misinterpreting it. My mistake was thinking it would simplify your understanding of the argument, but I guess not when you're so fucking stupid that you think "memory is not a skill."
If the type chart was as simple as RPS, it would be irrelevant. But it fucking patently is not, especially with type combinations and different modifiers. Again, see >>26777102, just look at all the faggots saying they "just google it." That just proves that it's not inherently trivial, and this feature IS handholding. You have no refuted this fact.
And being part of the dumbing down problem is not a good thing, especially for a major franchise like Pokemon.
>>26777856
>they disagree with me therefore they're shitposters
Oh look, a slow child supporting this feature. Big surprise.
>>26777952
All of which are equally nitpicky or premature.
now babbys can play pokemon
this can only be a good thing
It only shows when you've already met the pokemon once, probably based on the "seen" in the pokedex, so I'm fine with it.
>>26777988
>Oh look, a slow child supporting this feature. Big surprise.
Dude they're literally going
>NO THIS IS A FUCKING GAME RUINING FEATURE AND I WON'T STAND FOR IT EVERYONE ELSE THAT DOES IS A DIRTY CASUAL AND I HATE THEM
Paraphrased of course.
How does that not constitute as shitposting?
I mean even you're doing it without presenting an actual argument as to why it's bad beyond "muh handholding" even though this franchise has been handholdy since it's inception.
>>26777988
The type chart is LITERALLY RPS though. The non-RPS aspects come from other places.
>>26771898
Guess who don't complain? People who are not newbies or retarded.
>>26777988
It's not dumbing anything down. Dumbing it down would be reducing the number of types, simplifying the relationships between types, making attack matchups always equal defensive matchups, or something else like that.
This isn't changing anything, it's just making the information more convenient to access.
>>26778089
>This isn't changing anything, it's just making the information more convenient to access.
>theres no way this falls under anyones definition of dumbing down
>>26778029
RPS with eighteen fucking variations, and combinations of them. Yes it is still simple in principle, but even this thread is proof that it's not as trivial as you make it out to be for many people.
>>26778020
Oh look, another "it's always been easy!" fallacy from the remedial kid. There are different fucking degrees of handholding. The franchise never outright told you what move to use. It's just becoming progressively dumber to the point where you don't have to think at all.
>>26778115
Well, it certainly doesn't fall under anyone's *reasonable* definition of dumbing-down. I mean, you can call it that if you want, but it wouldn't make any sense.
>>26778089
Even if you're already a dimwitted shitlord who needs to look up type matchups online, it STILL dumbs it down because now you don't even have to make the connection between your chart and opponent. The game just tells you. That is dumbing down.
>>26778119
>The franchise never outright told you what move to use.
Of course not, well except for the types.
And the NPCs that say so.
And various other hints.
Oh and common sense.
But hey they never told you right?
Seriously though, Pokemon has always been this level of easy, the only way it couldn't be is if one, you lacked the ability to read, which is why they tell you to enjoy it you need it and two, if you lack common sense.
>>26777856
>>26777952
http://www.strawpoll.me/10510193
>http://www.strawpoll.me/10510193
http://www.strawpoll.me/10510193
>http://www.strawpoll.me/10510193
take this fags
>>26778158
>having to read, memorize and use common sense
>the same as the game outright telling you
You can't be serious.
Actually the fact that you called it an "inconvenience" implies that you yourself look up types, which immediately discredits your argument. If you have to reference an outside resource, then it's not intrinsically trivial for you, so yes, it is dumbing the game down.
>>26778157
The game already "just told you." This is just removing one inferential step, and it was a step that involved no analysis or decision-making. This only makes the game easier in the sense of providing you information that you already had anyway in a more convenient format. It removes no challenge in the form of decision-making or strategy.
>>26771898
It doesn't show up the first time around at least, so I don't care. It's not like the type effectiveness chart is difficult to memorize anyway. Play through the game once and you'll remember it just because you want to kill shit quicker.
>>26778198
>Actually the fact that you called it an "inconvenience"
Please point to where I called it an inconvenience? Keep in mind that I want an actual post made by me.
Anyway, the game still told out outright what was weak against what, the difference now is that you don't have to talk to NPCs.
>>26778193
>only one person out of nine is anything below indifferent
whoa..
>>26778228
You cannot use an outside resource to define the difficulty of the game. That's like calling a game easy when you beat it with a walkthrough. If you had to reference something online, then the game giving you that information is dumbing it down.
It would be somewhat excusable if the game just gave you a type chart in the dex or something, because you would still have to connect the dots yourself, but it actually goes a step further and just tells you the modifiers. Considering the importance of this aspect in this game, it is dumbing down by any reasonable definition.
>>26778256
I'm the one who called it an "inconvenience," and I stand by that. Inconvenience is not "challenge," and removing inconvenience is inherently a good thing.
>>26778256
Was this not you? >>26778089
>This isn't changing anything, it's just making the information more convenient to access.
Not only did NPCs not tell you every modifier, but the fact is you had to memorize what they said, the game didn't just tell you. There is a difference.
>>26778312
see >>26778297
>Not only did NPCs not tell you every modifier
You could find and NPC for each of the type weaknesses. I think the Gym guy told you each of them except for Giovanni's gym.
>but the fact is you had to memorize what they said
Not really, you could just go back to that NPC if you forgot.
>the game didn't just tell you.
Except it did, several times. Hell in Gen 4 there was a type checker that told you everything you needed to know.
> There is a difference.
Yeah, one is more useful to the player.
>>26778291
>Considering the importance of this aspect in this game
I don't agree with this. Having an 18x18 grid memorized is important in the sense that the type matchups are important, but this memorization process isn't the challenge of the game, or certainly shouldn't be. The challenge comes from knowing what to do with that information - when to use a super-effective move, when to switch, what to catch to balance your team... those are all strategic decisions that require applying the type matchup information. Knowing the type matchup information should be a given, and whether that given comes from memorization or an in-game chart or whatever doesn't matter to me. If removing the need to memorize the chart is what you considering "dumbing down," then fine, dumb it down some more, please. The challenge should come from applying that information, not knowing it.
>>26778348
>you could just go back to that NPC if you forgot
right, you could JUST memorize that exact trainer and where he is and traverse back mid game to get a single type chart question answered. youre right thats much more useful to the player! and challenging too! hey while were at it lets make a route with 10 trainers in a row with full teams of magikarp, because more challenge is more fun :-)
>>26778393
And here we confirm that you were nothing but a shitposter all along.
>>26778348
>you could just go back to that NPC if you forgot
Not in the middle of fucking battle. And he doesn't fucking follow you around, labeling your moves for you with modifiers against every opponent and combination. There is a goddamn difference.
>>26772119
>in fact, this already exists in B2/W2
Explain?
>>26778425
im not the several other people telling you that youre retarded, calm down.
so satire isnt a valid source of criticism? since fucking when lmao
>>26778457
>so satire isnt a valid source of criticism? since fucking when lmao
Since when indeed.
>>26778427
>Not in the middle of fucking battle.
Are you suggesting you'll forget what type is effective against what when you're in an area dedicated to that type and the NPC and sign outside told you what's effective?
You are kidding right?
>>26778503
ME TOO
>>26778457
>im not the several other people telling you that youre retarded, calm down.
Not him but the only one being called retarded is the guy that's making a big deal about it.
And if you go on it'll be you too.
>>26778469
it takes a special kind of poor reading comprehension to not see criticism in any piece of satire
ill spell it out for you
why the fuck do you think that, in the case of forgetting a piece of the type chat, it'd be convenient to rely on some random ass NPC from anywhere on the map to remind you of said piece? what if you havent gotten to that npc yet? and of course this is all requiring you to speak to every single npc player you meet
>>26778506
>be in a "grass area"
>learn the weaknesses of grass
>fight literally any pokemon that isnt pure grass and not know what theyre weak to
ah shit i shouldve known that fairy resists bug! it makes so much sense too!
>psychic
>not intuitive
It's weaknesses are the three biggest fears in people. The dark, the paranormal, and bugs.
>>26778361
It actually is the majority of the challenge for story mode. At this point story mode officially might as well play itself.
Memorizing information is a significant part of RPGs. Applying information in this game IS using the type chart correctly, and now the game simply tells you how to apply it.
>>26778527
people are afraid of fires though, and poisonous things
>>26778526
>it'd be convenient to rely on some random ass NPC from anywhere on the map to remind you of said piece?
You tell me, you're the one saying it's bad to tell the player these things.
>>26772279
Delete this
>>26778506
That is rarely the scenario, and it isn't the point. The point is the onus was on you to remember what they said, what others said, and your own experience, and apply it to the current situation. The game did not just label your moves for you. It is the difference between a closed book and open book test.
>>26778580
>The point is the onus was on you to remember what they said, what others said
Not really, the game drilled it into your head.
>NPC tells you
>go up against several trainers with that type
This ain't rocket science it's just throwing shit at you as the player until it sticks.
It's why we know it so well the game crammed it down your throats.
Then there was the type chart that came with the original games and the one that was built into DPPt.
Between all of those there was no real need to memorize anything.
>>26778562
>You tell me, you're the one saying it's bad to tell the player these things.
literally (LITERALLY) never said that, very epic
the current system (the system we have now and that youre defending) is shit, and that this new system for sun/moon is an improvement.
>>26778616
>Not really, the game drilled it into your head.
can you see the second part of >>26778526 where i explain why thats bullshit rather than skip it, thanks
>Then there was the type chart that came with the original games and the one that was built into DPPt.
THEORY: not everyone has played all the games leading up to this. sometimes, there are new players to any franchise
again this is just a hypothesis
>>26778544
>Memorizing information is a significant part of RPGs.
Why should it be? Do you find memorization fun? I don't. Was it also dumbing-down to allow you to see the details of a move while in battle, because you didn't have to memorize that information as well?
And again, I disagree that that's where the challenge comes from. The challenge isn't knowing that fire beats grass and therefore this move will be super-effective, it's determining how to apply that knowledge in terms of team-building, and battle strategy beyond that one next move.
>>26778632
>there are new players to any franchise
>again this is just a hypothesis
Eh, the numbers say otherwise.
Also it's funny how you can't follow your own argument anymore.
>>26771898
You fucking retards, this only appears on wild pokemon battes, not against actual trainers.
>>26778655
>Eh, the numbers say otherwise.
so "the numbers" say that there will be no new players that buy sun/moon and that everyone will be veterans? eh, sounds right eh, kids dont exist eh, the numbers add up
>Also it's funny how you can't follow your own argument anymore.
here are my posts:
>>26778393 >>26778457 >>26778526 >>26778632
of these four posts tell me where i said that giving the player information on the type chart is a bad thing.
note that saying the current system is retarded is not the same as saying we shouldnt be giving the player this information in the first place
>>26778681
OP's pic was taken from the rival battle
are you even trying
>>26778707
I require proof because i remember not seeing this feature against actual trainers in the gameplay they showed.
Either way, if it does happen, i want it to be so you don't see which attack is super effective against a pokemon until you use a super effective attack on them. And i don't mind this feature that much because often times i forget that pokemon like Heatran are fire/steel and not fire/rock or fire/ground
>>26778749
Popplio learned disarming voice agaist Hau, it didn't have it before that.
>>26778544
I mean, this is a flaw of Pokemon as a single player campaign. Simply knowing what amounts to the rules of the game being the only bastion of "difficulty" isnt the fault of the idea that it should be simple to know that rock beats paper. The game is a multiplayer game at IRS core, not single player. The two primary tenants of the game (trading and battling) are ones hurt significantly by being reduced to PVE. There has to be SOME kind of campaign I think, of course but it's not this completely harmless feature's fault that it ever so slightly exacerbated the problem, especially when the problem is, effectively, a distraction from getting to the nitty gritty.
>>26778749
see >>26778765
also they said that it only shows effectiveness after you battled the pokemon once. for example, during the rival battle, it didnt show effectiveness against hau's pichu (which makes me wonder when you battle a litten before the festival battle?)
>>26778836
That isn't your first battle with Hau. You probably fight him right when you get your Pokemon too. The gameplay during E3 was the second "day" in Alola. I assume they didn't show first day because the protagonist is said to see Tapu Koko and they didn't want to spoil whatever it is.
>>26773535
But the game also tells you now the type of the Pokemon you're facing. Why have all the "super effective" stuff on the interface?
Just let people tap the icon to see the Pokemon's type if they forgot, then they can work out which moves are SEusing their skill
>ITT: vp argues how sad their lives are by arguing over a feature to help children deal with 800 pokemon.
Again, why do we all need to be serious "HARDCORE" pokemon players? Why don't we deserve to hit super effectively? You can hit super effectively by just getting lucky and not knowing anything, so pls what skill is here? The comparison people make to fps games is a little stupid but that's the comparison a lot of non-supporters of this feature make. "shoot and aim for me" - except it is much, much harder to get a head shot "accidentally" or in general than hitting 1 of 4 moves and "accidentally" or in general hitting super effectively. So yes, awful comparison for anyone in the future.
I'm not linking any of the previous conversations here because I can't be fucked. But the chess comparison? That's a good one, and it is literally an open game where all information is known. That being said, saying that chess is nothing like pokemon and that you can make better moves to "move critically" (??? LOL what the fuck?).
Again, you all need to sit down and remember something. Some people don't want to waste their lives dedicated to remembering a type chart, it's a useless skill. You can go off about it "being easy" and making fun of those who don't remember it, but we know you're a filthy liar if it didn't take you some sort of practice or even years to develop. New generation children don't have those years, and they're also not like what? 20+ like you are? None of us ever had to deal with a pokemon game with 800 pokemon while starting 100% new. If you seriously think you should have to remember 800 pokemon types then I think you may want to reevaluate your priorities. Even as adults, nobody cares, nobody has to be serious about a fucking childrens game. And guess what? Any of you who don't support this change - fucking deal with it. It's here now, and your opinion doesn't fucking matter. Everyone deserves to hit super effectively now because it's part of the game.
>>26779658
about the chess part, I missed something:
That being said, saying that chess is nothing like pokemon and because you can make better moves to "move critically" (??? LOL what the fuck?) is pretty fucking stupid to say. The information is RIGHT THERE in front of you. It's like how in pokemon the information is RIGHT THERE but not always is the super effective hit going to be the best option to make. You CAN switch out etc remember? Holy fuck vp.
>>26772138
>>26777021
>Implying they wouldn't screw over zoroark even further
They already show you the opponents mons now. It only gets worse from here.
>>26777126
> No Skill in knowing what gun to equip
Somebody never played CS:GO. Heyo!
Imagine being so autistic that you have a crisis over player friendly features. Most of you are 20+ years old and your mad that a children's game is trying to be more accessible, how did you even get out of your safe space long enough to find 4chan?
I'm not an idiot who forget type match ups, so this means nothing to me.
it's obvious this won't be perma for/through the whole game, it'll only be good for the first few battles and that's probably going to be it.
contain yourselves, spergs.
>>26780012
Zoroark would have been on every single team without team preview tbf
>>26771898
Only the most autistic of fags care either way.
Which sums up /v/ pretty well.
>>26771898
It's a pretty good addition. The only "downside" is that I'll be a little less useful for my friends now
I like it along with pic related.
>>26780923
Woah it actually shows buffs and debuffs now?
Damn, that's useful as shit.
The one thing that bother me is that IVs are still invisible
