Why do the villainous teams always fall flat? Their goals range from incredibly simple to flat-out retarded.
How can evil teams be made better? Should another new team be created, or is there a way to fix an older one?
Cipher was pretty fantastic but that's mostly because of their competence, they were the main not a secondary plot, and the game was trainer battle oriented and they posed a legitimate practical threat. Double battles allowing them to be somd of the hardest battles in the entire series certainly helps.RAIKOU USED THUNDER
>>26771377
>spoiler
MAKE IT STOP!!!!
>>26771386
>tfw we got no gen V home console spin off
>tfw no Tornadus+Thundurus boss battle with Ein ass raping you with Hurricane and Thunder
>>26771377
>Breezing through the game with Quagsire
>Handle the first Miror B fight just fine
>Mfw the second one
I had to purify Raikou just to win and even then I barely beat him
>>26771356
its a kids game
>>26771538
This. Kids should NEVER be challenged. We should continue to drip-feed them casual, processed, dumb shit because they're just kids. They won't able to understand it.
So that kids can understand.
That means no Poke-hitler for u
>>26771547
> casual, processed, dumb shit
You sound bothered.
>>26771538
Even more reason, so the Japanese kids don't get stupid.
>>26771356
Have Cynthia's sister or something in Team Plasma, make her look like Crooked Hillary, gym leaders want to Make Unova Great Again
>>26771570
oh right, this is a kids board
i shouldn't use language like that
>>26771576
You seem bothered that Pokemon is a kids game .
Do you also believe that your average 5 year-old should be taught University/College Courses?
>>26771356
>We should continue to drip-feed them casual, processed, dumb shit
straight outta /b/ inb4 you pull the pissing into oceans of piss or the wallowing in piss and shit schtick.
>>26771377
Rocket and Cipher were the best, Imo. They are criminal organizations that run like them. Team Plasma 2 also wasn't bad, even if they were a bit unfocused.
Everyone else is a weird cult centered around a "leader" that everyone has complete, unwavering faith in despite no evidence to any actual reasoning behind this loyalty. Said weird cult seeks to irrecoverably change the world involving a plan that nobody really understands, and would murder everyone if it actually went off.
>>26771547
they did this with earthbound
and the sales fell flat on their fucking face in america
>>26771619
Earthbound's marketing was a mess, complete with a box that literally smelled like farts via scratch and sniff.
To be perfectly honest I think the problem is time. It takes time for the games and anime to set up the villain team and the their done in a relatively short time. There is no room to develop character or clear motive. It's why most teams seem so ridiculous with their world ending schemes.
If we had time to develop the team and they were given motives that weren't entirely catosprophic maybe the teams would feel more fleshed out and original.
We don't need Team Rocket ever generation but some carry over like Rocket returning in gen 2 was nice. I wouldn't mind seeing an evil team stick around so they could develop like the protagonist.
>>26771538
Because if there is one thing kids these days need, it is to feel MORE entitled to their very own games, tailored specifically to them, that they can breeze through without ever having to put in any dedication or effort. Teach them that if at first you don't succeed, you are on your own because these are uncharted waters. Teach them that anyone they don't like is part of some strange organization you can't understand that seek to do you harm for no other reason than they are different.
Teach kids that THEY are the chosen one, and are special, and that the rest of the world exists only for their benefit.
Sounds like a solid plan. I wonder what kind of people they will grow up to be.
>>26771668
lol wtf are you talking about
these games don't teach kids shit, they're just entertaining
>>26771668
heres your (you)
>>26771668
WHEN has a VIDEO GAME ever """"""taught"""""" somthing?
Leave that shit to the schools,books and parents
>>26771751
not him but theres those really bad ripoff games on the ds that used to teach shit like cooking or how to quit smoking
Uhm, this is OP. I didn't mean that the teams needed to be made super hard to beat, I meant that the team's goals should be more interesting, or more frightening.
I didn't mean to start a "kids these days" argument
Why does there need to be an "evil team" that's always in your face in the first place? They could advance the plot in much more interesting ways.
>>26771812
I'm here for a "murder" mystery main pokemon game.
>>26771556
>Implying Hitler's plan isn't simple and autistic as fuck too
That goes to OP. I don't want a pseudointellectual bullshit in mah games.
>>26771356
more new villainous teams.
As, Good exist. There will be Evil.
>>26771377
Compared to most of the game, Espeon and Umbreon shit on everything, the game isn't really that hard.
The sequel is even easier, vaporeon makes everything fucking easy too, and pokemon distribution is even better.
I don't know why so many people had trouble with these games.
>>26771844
>pseudointellectual bullshit
What, like Boss "I'm going to destroy the universe and replace it" Cyrus?
I think that any new villain gang after Team Rocket was a mistake. Just having a group that was in it for the money/power made the most sense, not all these bizarre cults and idiot clubs that keep popping up around the world.
I don't think a new villain gang will work either, just bring back Rocket and replace Giovanni with someone competent.
>>26771844
>implying
>>26772032
Hey, Team Plasma had a good idea and so would Team Magma if it had more thought put into it.
I want Team Unity led by Schlomo and his communist hordes protesting Pokemon privilege
>>26772135
Team Magma had at least a somewhat understandable goal; however, the way they planned to accomplish it was just fucking stupid. It's like none of them finished college.
Maxie was a dumbass, and I never understood why he had so many followers. Tabitha was a whiny bitch, and Courtney was autistic as fuck.This is the reason why /vp/ likes her so much.
Team Aqua was even more retarded, but at least they had Archie to make up for it.
>>26771356
fix an older one
>>26771377
>mfw we'll never have an updated Colosseum/Gale of Darkness port to the 3DS.
>Nascour will never have shadow Hydreigon
>Dakim will never be Alder's brother
>Ein will never reference Colress
>>26771538
this.
>>26771571
>being evil is being smart
please make this meme stop.
>>26771377Slowking used Skill Swap
>>26771619
I wouldn't say that was the answer to Earthbound's poor sales.IT SMELLS LIKE FARTS
>>26771377Scizor used Swords Dance.Scizor usED BATON PASS
>>26771356
>Wait for trainers to seek aid for their pokemon
>Send a group in, disguised as normal folks, and have them cause a ruckus. "My pokemon are hurt more than yours!" kind of deal
>In the commotion, steal all the supplies and pokemon currently being treated
>Begin shipping them off immediately to multiple locations, and have them ship from those locations to more random locations
>Repeat the same scenario at shops to swipe all the pokeballs, potions, and whatnot
>If caught, let the lackey get arrested and have a pair acting as the weak parents, scolding their child and having the "child" play the sob story act. Everyone in the pokemon world is a softie, after all
>Once a good amount has been swiped, lay low and wait for the heat to cool down.
>During that time, sell the goods and stuff at a discount
>Make money while causing chaos, keeping to the shadows and never being blatantly known as an open organization
Basically Team Rocket, but less stupid and more cautious. The best damage is done in the shadows.
>>26774283
>implying that plan would work
you know, if you want TR to have at least basic level of int, you need to assume the rest of the npcs also have at least basic level of int. to put it bluntly, would it work if pokemons ware real? would a similiar plot work irl?
>>26772032
copypasted
While i understand while some would prefer it, in my opinion living in a world of overpowered magical creatures and having as your only goal "money" is less realistic than whatever plot they could come up with.
Gen 2 Rocket is just pathetic, nuff said.
Sadly for them, their whole "menacing" aspect amounted to nothing. They scared Saffron...and that's it. Celadon was completely unaffected by them despite being their HIDEOUT.
They're weak trainers with weak Pokemon(though this applies to basically all teams outside Plasma and Neo Plasma)
The thing that i hate the most, however, is that Giovanni(even if HGSS says he wants to reform it someday) just...he just gave up. Got beaten by a kid a few times and gave up his lifelong dream. And disbanded his team leaving them by themselves(and we know how that went).
Archie and Maxie saw they fucked up, fucked up big time, despite doing it in good will, and asked the player to help.
Cyrus the autistic was crazy and obtained what he wanted: to have a universe all for himself. Alone. Forever.
Ghetsis is Giovanni 2.0 however he DOESN'T give up. He wanted to trick the region into freeing their Pokemon to dominate it without any effort or battle needed. After deciding your fate N helps you fuck over his plans with the legendary.
He goes into hiding for 2 years and then comes back more powerful than ever. At the end of the game he's so fucking mad about being defeated by a fucking kid that he tries to KILL THE FUCKING PLAYER. They Shadow Triad takes him away BY FORCE, probably foaming at the mouth even.
Lysandre was right and the world is shit. At the end he either tries to kill you or makes you immortal so that you can watch the world and who's dear to you die and die and die.
tl;dr: Rocket is bad
>>26771619
Bullshit, Earthbound failed because a bunch of business fucks sat around and thought "What appeals to kids"
And they went with farts. People like them, and people like you, who keep trying to feed kids the most simplistic shit in the worst packaging possible need to just stop.
Kids can handle a villainous team that is more than just I WANNA DESTROY EMOTION >:( or WE WANT MORE LAND/OCEAN, or WE WANNA SHAMALLAMADINGDONG (I didn't care enough about Team Flare to remember what they wanted to do. Something about exterminating Pokemon and then trying to curse me with immortality because their head faggot was so goddamn easy to beat he might as well have sent out six white flags like the French fuck he was.)
>>26774472
Team Rocket's MO amounted to Mewtwo. The Celedon operation was SUPPOSED to go undetected. Which, it totally was. YOU the player financed Team Rocket by buying coins. Just as planned. Saffron was entirely to secure the Master Ball, a sure-fire way to bring Mewtwo back under their control. Team Rocket was stealthy as fuck, they didn't go shouting "We have to go get the legendary pokemon to make my dreams reality!", no, they kept it on the down-low, but the evidence is all there.
Giovanni "gave up" because Red was certain to deal with Mewtwo before Team Rocket could get their next plan off the ground. There was no more point. His boys went on to do some stupid shit after he left, mostly in the interest of paying their overhead, but they did manage to evolve a Lake full of Magikarp into Gyarados, so give them some credit.
What kind of grown up plans do you want them to have? To infiltrate the governments of countries they wouldn't be able to defeat through war and change the laws there to fit their vision, like muslims? Or they just start genociding people or pokemon? Doesn't fit in with the goofy world of Pokemon. I also like how the villainous teams are always humorous.
>>26771356
>SM don't have an evil team
>Lillie does a bunch of research via the Professor and gains the knowledge of the Legendary Pokemon
>She goes to find them to help her spread the message of love and discourage battlesas a battle gone wrong killed both her parents
>Before she summons the legendary she meets up with the protag and has no choice but to let them be the first witness of her epic
>Everything goes wrong in the worst possible way as the legendary makes it permanently day/night
>The only way to make it normal again is to defeat it
>She uses the only pokemon she has to quell the beast using wimpy moves
>Turns out her feelings were communicated via battling even though it was shitty
>She realizes battles are about that strong connection born from love and changes her mind about them
>Now that the legendary is calmed down she allows the protag to catch it cause obligatory "you're the one who showed me this power of friendship"
>Postgame she gives a gift pokemon to the protag after that with the event move Hold Hands
>>26771356
>How can evil teams be made better?
>in the evil team HQ
>the team leader battles the player, and is actually an unwinnable battle
>and yes, you will waste your potions on this battle
>no matter what tricks the player pulls, the leader has what amounts to an instant win button
>after winning, the leader orders the grunts to haul the player to the brig and confiscate his Pokemon
>all hope seems lost
>until a friendly NPC loans you his Pokemon, something like Gallade or Dragonite
>then you realize the power of Synchro Evolution or whatever and take your Pokemon back
>>26774788
>Synchro evo with your friend's pokemon
>>26774788
>>26774802
than you accidently sent into a pc, which starts a whole different game!
>>26774202
>shadow pokemon had colosseum exclusive moves you could only get on them from porting them from that game
>dragon dance shadow Garchomp
>>26774788
>Unwinnable
Literally how? How do you have an unwinnable Pokemon battle?
>>26775380
it's level will show '???' and the enemy will have will have infinite items
>>26771356
Make a villainous government/council who pretend to change whenever the boss is beaten and it looks like it's all over, but they end up just starting up again
The evil team in every region exists for a few reasons.
>diversifies the protagonist's objective, providing additional things to do in towns and between gyms
>allows large gauntlets or dungeons to be added to the game like Silph Co
>crafts an excuse to encounter the box legend
>creates a traditional good vs bad narrative
A game without the evil team would be just the protagonist going through every gym in sequential order on a totally normal pokemon journey. So you'd have to come up with new ways to provide all those aspects the evil team brings. Dungeons could be done via sidequests and larger connecting routes and caves, the box legend could be more like GSC, and you could provide the game an antagonist via a crooked or nasty rival like Silver.
>>26775419
But how? Is it infinitely high stats? What items do they use? Give me some details!
>>26775512
You could do what Spectrobes does and just make the pokemon have 30+ level stats for the current level limit, give them 150 power moves, and make create a condition where even if their health reaches zero they can't be knocked out.
>>26775512
it will have stats that are relative to yours. itt will act as if its level is 50% higher.
the level will appear a ??? or kids ain't get that this is an unwinnable battle and grind for levels.
well, there will always be idiots.
>>26774208
looool
mfw when it actually wrecks your team
>>26775528
>>26775535
It would still be very easy to kill them. You could do a classic Scarf Ditto, or FEAR , or Sturdy Metal Burst, or just plain setting up.
Give me actual stats and stuff that is "unwinnable"
>>26775702
The sequence is just scripted and hard coded to be unwinnable. They take 0 damage from all attacks until whatever story element at play happens. It's JRPGs 101 man.
>>26775710
Then I use Toxic.
>>26775702
endless.
you will fight rockets grunts till you drop. battle masion style.
>>26775725
Toxic also does zero damage.
>>26775746
That would actually be pretty enjoyable.
They need more believable goals. Omega Ruby was a good start. Make them more like comic book(or comic book movie) villains. They can still be fun without being impossible to take serious.
>>26775419
>Destiny Bond
>Perish Song
>OHKO moves
Have you never seen a bad rom hack thread?
"Unwinnable" battles are surprisingly easy to win if you put some thought into it
>>26774511
>Kids can handle a villainous team that is more than just I WANNA DESTROY EMOTION >:( or WE WANT MORE LAND/OCEAN, or WE WANNA SHAMALLAMADINGDONG (I didn't care enough about Team Flare to remember what they wanted to do.
Please, you're living proof that people can't handle any more than that because the last two generations gave us more than that and it just flew right over your head.
>>26774788
>>the team leader battles the player, and is actually an unwinnable battle
This is the worst idea ever for Pokemon. In fact scripted battles in general are fucking retarded.
It doesn't add difficulty or anything for that matter aside from needless tedium.
>then you realize the power of Synchro Evolution or whatever and take your Pokemon back
And here I though you couldn't get more retarded.
>>26775811
>winning the battle that the target demographic couldn't
>a grunt comes from behind and knocks you cold regardless
>>26771668
They'll grow up to be pretentious video game critics like you.
>>26771668
Video games aren't meant to be a medium to teach that life is hard, that's what reality is for anon. Video games are solely a medium for entertainment and relaxation to take a break from the frustrations of life rather than to bring you back into the drab world.
>>26771547
Even though you're saying this in a faggy, sarcastic, and ass bothered way, you're still correct.
>>26775961
>you're still correct.
He isn't, it's true that kids should be challenged however that challenge shouldn't be placed in the video games they use to take a break from the challenge.
Of course that doesn't mean make the game a "here have everything without trying game" like most games out now but don't make it ball bustingly hard.
>>26775811
how about he has ohko moves with fixed rng and always higher speed?
>>26775746
a proper way to single-handedly destroy rocket.
>goes into vidya hall of fame
>>26774511
>>26771607
Because knowing water > fire > grass is university level knowledge?
>>26774490
Is there one with Ghetsis?
>>26774802
>NTRing your friend with his Pokemon and some newfangled evolution like you were Hulk Hogan himself
Im ok with this
it would be an interesting twist to see the villain team have a connection with the protagonist's family.
>>26780635sauce?
>>26771689
Pokemon helped me read more proficiently when I was 5
>>26777726
>OHKO
Sturdy counters that
FEAR Aron could easily take that down
>>26771356
>Needing an evil organization in the first place.
How about we just don't have an evil team?
>>26771668
>what kind of people they will grow up to be
4chan users
>Villain team is claiming credit for random explosions all over the region
>Called Team Veil or something, because of their ability to sneak into locations unseen and plant their bombs
>Part of the game is trying to discover their motives and goals
>Nothing you find makes sense>There never was an evil team
>The region's legendary is ill and lost control of its powers, causing these explosions to occur. The guy looking after it decided to create this fake team to take the blame, so people wouldn't come looking for the legend and try to hurt it even more.
>game plot revolves around doing stuff for the ragional prof
>delivery work, escort, aquiring certain pokemons, fighting certain npcs
>in the end you start fighting cops>you ware the evil team all along>now you need to make amends or you won't be able to be back in sociaty>for edgy kids, there is a secret route that lets you embrace the evil and do all kinds of crazy shit you couldn't do in vannila pokemon, like capturing pokemons after they fainted or using ilegal steroids to raise pokemons ivs.
>>26771356
>Why do the villainous teams always fall flat?
Because they stock their members with the same 4 or so shitty weak first stage poison and dark mons and they get swept by a single 10-16 year old with a non-retarded team.
>>26774511
>I didn't care enough about Team Flare to remember what they wanted to do.
Lysandre was literally hitler.
>>26783358
i like this
>>26771377
There two pieces to Pokemon. Competition between trainers and fighting villain. While I prefer the first one I loved Colosseum. I think they get in each others' way.
>>26784376
they probably get them from eggs in the daycare. shiny hunt is such a drag.
