Why aren't there other major franchises centered on capturing wild creatures and training them to fight? I'm not talking about something like digimon or monster rancher where you just get a partner and sit around powering them up with friendship while they do all the work. I mean something with the strategic flexibility and variety of pokemon.
At this point it seems like adults only like pokemon because of nostalgia and the fact that there's nothing else in its niche. They barely change the gameplay each generation, the stories are a joke, the dialogue is full of never-ending friendship bullshit, they constantly remove features people want and leave features everyone hates, the ai/npc teams are shit, and spamming nukes with type advantage is more effective than any strategy you'll set up before postgame. You could beat any battle in these games by following a flowchart. (And don't tard out about how if you want meaningful combat you should play online. I play pokemon for the exploration and discovery and I'd like to experience that with not-shit combat.)
And this isn't even getting into more subjective stuff a lot of people dislike like the new super cartoony artstyle and haunted object/clothed humanoid pokemon.
You'd think someone would come along and make an adult oriented pokemon ripoff. Something with more complex/deep battles, less braindead dialogue, etc. I don't understand why no one has.
>>26764813
It does have competition, it's just that most of its competitors don't last long.
>>26764813
Because anything that tries or is a monster collecting game, regardless of nature, is marked as a pokemon clone, shunned in the US, and is doomed to fail (see Yo-kai Watch)
Because pokémon as a franchise is huge and you just can't win. Yokai Watch is trying it now but it will fail and so will any franchise that tries to be the new pokémon.
>>26764920
Yo-kai watch failed because its designs are literal butts and shit, not because it's a pokemon clone. People don't really give a shit if something is a ripoff, the most popular game in the world is a dota ripoff.
Upvoted.
>>26764945
>Shits
Thats digimon you pleb
>>26764813
>At this point it seems like adults only like pokemon because of nostalgia
theory: people like pokemon because it is fun
Stop using the EXP Share and stop overleveling your pokemon. Train 6 Pokemon so their levels are as low as possible and if you start losing since you're many levels lower than your opponent in every battle, don't just grind until matches are easy, try to figure out how to win with lower level pokemon. Pokemon games are as hard as the player wants them to be.
>>26764952
>apologists who circlejerk about how everything is perfect whenever something they like is criticized
>not the real redditors
>>26764945
>Dota
Which started as a mod of Warcraft. Most popular game in the world is a rip off if a rip off.
>>26764813
Most people like Pokémon because of the Pokémon more than anything else. Other series have different creatures and people don't want to drop their attachments just for a better or different game. That's the big reason there will never be a more "adult-oriented" (lmao) game about capturing monsters. Unless you're talking about Shin Megami Tensei, but that game is very different both in premise and gameplay.
That and Pokémon is still primarily for kids. That's why you see a bunch of ripoffs like Battle Camp on mobile.
By theway, if you want meaningful combat, do PvP. Game AI will never be as good or interesting as human opponents. It's the same thing with fighting games.
Because the US is extreme dubious of rip-offs and imitators. For instance in Japan Super Sentai is an entire subgenre, but in the US if a super sentai show was released it would immediately be viewed as a rip off of Power Rangers. An illegitimate imitator trying to cash in on the original's success. Likewise because the US does not have a "monster raising" RPG subgenre, any of Pokemon's competitors in Japan are unable to compete with it in the US because they'd inherently be viewed as cheap bootleg imitators on the level of Sense of Right Alliance, regardless of quality. The comparison is both unavoidable and unfavourable.
>>26765000
Dota isn't a ripoff - it's a pretty different game from Warcraft. It was just built as a custom game.
>>26764986
Turning off exp share doesn't make ai opponents not retarded. And I'm not going to avoid half the content of the game hoping it makes the rest of the content not piss easy.
Also 'figuring out how to win' is mostly 'abuse type advantage harder'. Type advantage is their substitute for actual strategic complexity which like I said you don't have the resources to set up before postgame.
>>26765036
>Pokemon's competitors in Japan
Like? Besides Yokai Watch of course.
>>26765070
Nope, when you're 12+ levels lower than the Elite Four and Gym Leaders and they're all much faster than you and hit like a tank, just hitting them with their weakness is not enough. You'll probably have to use stuff like battle items. And this is the situation that happens when you stop grinding on wild Pokemon and do all the other things I said.
>>26765111
I've played through the games 4 times one of them being a personal speed run
It's not fucking hard when you're under leveled. "12 hours"
>Why does pokemon have no competition?
It does, like Di-
>And you CAN'T name these two because I said so!!
Retard.
>>26765111
>12 levels lower
are you just straight up avoiding every optional trainer?
>>26765133
What does being a speed run mean? If you for example only play using one Pokemon the whole game will be quick and easy. If you didn't play like how I said, then it will be easy. You probably used the EXP Share each run too.
>>26765154
>why are there no games emulating this particular aspect of pokemon?
>durrr there are other japanese games about 'monsters' and that's the maximum extent to which i'm mentally able to compare/contrast
stop sperging out, downie
>>26765093
You got digimon, monster strike, monster Rancher, medabots (shut down for good now), and a number of others.
>>26765156
Nope I tried to fight every trainer. Beat Platinum a few weeks ago and I don't remember my Pokemon's levels exactly but I think they were like 48-51 when I fought Cynthia, and her strongest Pokemon is 62. I know my Pupitar hadn't evolved yet so I know I wasn't on level 55.
>>26764920
It's extremely popular where I am, but we have an abnormally high Asian population. I honestly had no idea it wasn't doing well in the US because of it.
>>26764813
Pokémon is a role-playing game about catching Pokémon.
>>26764986
I trained 12 pokemon in XY and didnt use the EXP share. Still easy.
>>26765259considering the sequel is coming over it must be doing something at least.
>>26765274
lol ok. What were your levels.
>>26765156
>>26765252
Oh no actually, these were my levels after I beat the Elite Four. I took a picture before to post in one of those post your team threads.
>>26765279
Level-5 is really pushing YW in the west. But didn't an official Nintendo statement say that YW1 sales were disappointing? They're still trying.
>>26765533
Nintendo didn't say much, but hino said 400k is not nearly enough though
>>26764920
>>26764934
Only Yokai Watch IS Pokemon's biggest competitor now, not in the US but in Japan most definitely, the type of popularity YW has in Japan now is comparable to the popularity Pokemon had in the early 2000's. Yokai Watch might never get that kind of popularity because most people can't appreciate the wacky monster designs they have and I'm fully convinced that Americans just don't like to try new things.
>>26764945
So why is it that the majority of people's complaints about Yokai Watch is that it's a ripoff like that stupid fucking Jimmy Whetzel?
>>26764813
Everything falls by its own weight.
Pokemon made an impressive marketing work back at 1999 and 2000, exploiting a Game Boy gimmick: the cable link, which engraved itself as a pop culture icon which persists today. Many of the children (including myself) which were bombarded with merchandise and are now in their 20s, remember Pokemon as part of their childhood.
Now, Pokemon actually has some competition in the form of Digimon, whose premise is more or less similar, with the difference that they were more heavily influenced by Mecha and Kaiju works. If their developed games had more highlight (like heavy Sony advertising, in a similar vein as Nintendo does with Pokemon), they could compete with Pokemon with no problems. Even Medabots might have a chance if given.
Youkai Watch has just born, but let's face it, everything that comes after 2010 faces a short live because we people get bored fast, and marketing people know that. Nobody is willing to risk to invest much in a trend that will disappear in favor to another some months later.
>>26764877
this
yokai watch, as good as it is, will probably fade too
>>26768529
Sony just doesn't give a fuck about the vita, it's kinda sad.
>>26768529
Digimon just needs more good games to push the brand, Pokemon struck gold with an easily reproducible, expandable game template that other monster collectors haven't been able to find. If we can get more Cyber Sleuth or better quality games Digimon might be in the running again.
DQM would probably be a competitor too if they'd just localise the fucking things. I understand they got burned with Joker/2 but it's not our fault it was a significant step down from previous entries.
>>26768537
i always assumed yokai watch's gameplay was dumb and childish because of the designs. Is it actually better than pokemon?
>>26769343
It's too simple for my taste, but I suppose simplicity is to be expected from the first iteration of a children's game. Some of the designs are actually really good, don't let the butt guys fool you into thinking that's all there is. Trying to match the anime so heavily was its most major misstep imo, part of pokemon's success story is the fact that you don't play as Ash in gen1.
>>26769468
more or less simple than pokemon?
>>26769509
More simple, much more. It tries to hide that fact with in-battle minigames but it gets pretty obvious after an hour or two. There's not a huge number of types, no type combos, and you don't input any battle commands other than deciding when to use a special attack, switch out, cure a benched yokai, or use an item.
>>26764813
>isn't even getting into more subjective stuff a lot of people
You understand that even with a majority agreement, an opinion is still subjective right?
>>26770159
>more
I found the Shin Megami Tensei stuff with the demons kind of similar, I guess?
>>26764813
Fossil Fighters was cool for the first two games, but I never finished Frontier because of how much it sucked compared to the others.
>>26770311
>advantage system
>turn based strategy game
>fusions
not really
>>26765220
>>26765093
Also, Dragon Quest Monsters, as a best seller in Japan with two mobile spin offs.
And the DemiKids spin offs from SMT.
Does anyone have that list that was made earlier of all the monster collector based series?
>>26770721
>>26770762
MH stories better get an international release
>>26770826
They said no. Something about it being too japanese.
>>26769509
simpler
>>26770846
WHHYYYY
>>26765267
We know that. That's not what this thread is about. Please learn to read english, OP.
>>26770762
Holy shit, is Dinosaur King still a thing ? I remember that show, though I was a bit older than the target audience at the time, so it felt a bit annoying at times.
>>26770762
Quick, post any favourite monster designs from any of these series
>>26770941
I think that is the issue. Collecting monster games are often marketed towards children, but someone needs to realize that older people thanks to Pokemon also enjoy creature capturing and training games.
The market for it is currently open. Someone will be bargaining on it soon. I can feel it.
>>26770762
We can go through this list:
Digimon: They were focused on only having one not colelcting htem all int eh tv series
Yu-gi-oh: The The creatures were never specifically collected, even when they talk about how important they were it was always the cards, not the creatures.
>not familiar with DGM, Azure Dreams, Monster Collection(?),
Beyblade: Wasn't it similar to Digimon, where they were all about having ONE top?
Yo-Kai Watch: From what I understand, fair enough
Monster Rancher: Not overly familiar with this but I think I saw an episode long ago and it was like Pokemon
>Not Familiar with: Dinosaur King, Shin Megami Tensei. Dragon Collection
Bakugan: Didn't this start off as them only using one, but was marketed as get them all for the toys?
B-Daman: I have heard of, but do not know the collection situation
Duel Master: Again it was about the cards wasn't it? It seems like I saw an episode where he acted like the creatures were important but I feel as if that was the main characters thing, not everyones
Cardfight Vanguard: Only watched a few episodes, other than the main card he uses though I don't think the other creatures were personified that way or like he was trying to get all the cards
>Not familiar with: DemiKids, Battle Strikers, Spectrobes, Medabots(may have heard of these two)
Zoids: Each person only had one they piloted, maybe in the Fusion series it was more about collecting?
Dice: not familiar with it
Zatch Bell: Was specifically about destroying everyone else with your one not collecting
>not sure if Cardcaptor: Sakura, is so yeah I can see it as competition
>not familiar with Jade Cocoon, Telefang(?), Robopon
Lilo&Stitch: ehhhh maybe as a collector series, I can give you this
>Not familiar with anything else except
Neopets: Sure maybe, was it about collecting? Not 100% but I know there were different creatures
>>26764813
From the top of my head, I remember Digimon, Monster Rancher and Dragon Quest (kinda). I played all of them back in the day, and I enjoyed all of them. But they are all try to implement complicated or boring mechanics. Digimon in the playstation era changed the genre of their games 3 times. Example, try to understand this: https://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/437339-digimon-world-2/faqs/61067
While pokémon still the same. Simple. You can pick any pokémon game and you will be able to play and beat it. And will probably have fun.
>>26771247
Oh, and just to add, I never played yokai watch, so I can't make any comment about it. Would like to try it someday.
>>26771131
>Not familiar with Shin Megami Tensei
Play it, you won't regret it. At least SMTIV is newcomer-friendly. Nocturne and Soul Hackers are good games too.
>>26771360
I will check it out good sir/madam. Thank-you for your recommendation.
