Why create two Pokemon based on the same thing?
Because they are totally different applications of the same idea? Do all the frog Pokemon trigger you?
>>26711846
I don't know, but they do that a lot
>>26711859
2 frog Pokemon is hardly the same as two tapirs that are based on dreams
>>26711907
Forgot Kangaskhan and Nidoqueen.
>>26711974
There's at least 4 frog pokemon you dumbo. Poliwhirl, Politoed, Seismitoad, Greninja. Also cats and dogs. And everything else about their designs is totally different.
Next thing you know they'll make a second electric mouse.
>>26711907
these are all A++++++++ designs unlike OP
Munna and Musharna should have been Fairy/Psychic types.
>>26712066
>>26712066
Those all have different concepts, meanwhile Drowzee and Munna are both baku. Same typing, based on the same animal, based on the same mythical animal.
>>26712086
There's so many I knew I'd forget at least one. I think there's been at least one new one in every gen. And I meant poliwrath, not Whirl
>Geodude line and roggenrola line
>woobat line and zubat line
>OP's pic
Any others? Not counting "early route birdmons" or anything that's a staple to any new gen. I'm talking about blatant ripoffs
>>26712095
No they don't. They're all based on frogs. They look different but they're all just frogs. By your logic how could we have more than 1 generic dragon? We had 2 just in gen 1. Munna and Drowzee looks completely different.
![097Hypno[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/4chBb8x.png "097Hypno[1].png")
>>26711846
Drowzee pretty much tosses out the baku inspiration when it evolves, and becomes a jew hypnotist.
Munna maintains the baku basis when it evolves.
>>26712107
The entirety of gen 5 was supposed to act as a parallel to gen 1. It is incredibly hard not to notice this with things like OP's pic, the mimic pokemon that look like pokeballs from the overworld, having the regional bird be a pigeon, etc. Also no new pokemon until postgame.
>>26712137
jews were always thought to be baku in ancient japan though.
>>26712107
I don't really consider Woobat to be a Zubat clone, for two reasons
1: Woobat is nowhere near as common as zubat
2: Completely different typing and theme. Woobat is a Psychic-type and has a love/romance theme (the name and its signature move, Heart Stamp), Zubat is basically just a real bat colored blue
>>26712114
No, they all have different concepts than. Them being all the same would be like all the frog Pokemon being ninja frogs like Greninja.
Poliwhirl - immature tadpole
Politoed - a frog. Just a garden variety frog.
Toxicroak - poison dart frog
Seismitoad - toad with prominent parotoid glands, secretes poison
Greninja - ninja frog
Drowzee and Munna are both dream-eating tapirs and even have the same typing.
>>26711846
Cause Gen V was a poor attempt to be the new Gen I
>>26712251
Drowzee - A bipedal yellow tapir that hypnotizes people to put them to sleep
Munna - a floating pink tapir combined with an incense burner that uses incense to put others to sleep
I can do that too.
Gen 5 was supposed to be its own thing.
All of the previous regions were based on Japan. Unova was based on the US, so to further cement Unova being far away from the other regions, they gave it its own Pokemon, like how the US and Japan have different wildlife.
Since they weren't using any old Pokemon, they needed a few new ones that filled similar roles/archetypes as the old ones.
>>26712323
This shit eater.
>>26711846
>Why create two Pokemon based on the same thing?
That's the whole point of gen5.
>>26712107
All three of the magical foxes.
>>26712323
That doesn't excuse another baku, dumbass.
Can drowzee do THIS?
>>26711846
Why not?
>>26712595
Is this porn?
>>26712578
>T-there can't be two pokémon based on the same thing!
Sorry, didn't realise you own the fucking franchise
>>26711846
Reminder
>>26712644
Sun Wukong, Hear No Evil, and the last one isn't even based on a monkey but an ape.
Learn your primates.
>>26712660
>monkey but an ape
Aren't these the same.
>>26712623
Yes
>>26712644
Darmanitan is based on Daruma/Dharma dolls, not on a primate, retard.
>>26712629
That's not what I said, try again.
>>26712660
Baboons are monkeys
Darmanitan's Japanese name has the Japanese word for baboon in it, therefore it is based on a baboon
>>26712698
Monkeys have tails.
"Apes" are gorillas, chimpanzees, orangutans, and humans.
>>26712629
You're trying to dodge the question. You said
>they needed a few new ones that filled similar roles/archetypes as the old ones
To some extend, you were right. There needed to be a pure Fighting trio, there needed to be an early bird, etc.
Then please explain why there specifically "needed" to be another baku. Because I'm all ears.
>>26712323
one of the reasons gen 5 is shit on, fuck bootleg-esque pokemon
>>26712751
>humans are animals
Nigga, next you're going to say humans are Pokemon?
>>26712759
Dream World
>>26712660
> and the last one isn't even based on a monkey but an ape.
Darmanitan is based on Daruma. It isn't really a primate.
>>26712790
>a pokemon can one be one thing
>>26712790
Or, you know, it's both an ape and a daruma. It's almost as if some Pokemon are an amalgam of factors not a single thing. Weird, huh?
>>26712787
See, now that's an actual answer. Was that so hard?
>>26712790
>Pokémon can only be based on one thing, and one thing only
This is one of the worst /vp/ memes.
>>26712759
I'm the guy you're replying to, but not the one who said what you quoted.
Anyway, I don't see what the problem is. We can have multiple pokemon that are literally just birds, multiple that are pure fighting as you said. Why does a problem arise when it's a baku? Is it 'too specific' of a concept for there to be multiple of?
>>26712095
You're missing the point. Drowzee and munna aren't just tapirs, they're dream tapirs, which is specific as fuck and does not warrant two Pokemon lines. I wouldn't mind 4 tapirs if they were all different, like, as you said, the frogs are.
>>26712807
>>26712812
>Pokémon can only be based on one thing
I don't said it. I say the three fire monkeys isn't based on the same thing.
>>26712819
How can you be so fucking pedantic and function in the real world. Drowzee and Munna execute their concepts in totally different ways. They're based on the same idea but they look totally and completely different. In that case, why does it even matter at all that they have the same very basic concept? How can you even look at the two and go "yeah these are a complete rip off of each other".
>>26712730
Except it's clearly not a baboon. Infernape already fills that role.
Chikorita has the english word for a young chicken in its name. Does that make is a fucking chicken?
WHY DOES POKEMON HAVE MORE THAN ONE BIRD?????
FUCK YOU GF
>>26712216
>shrews and pangolins are moles
No
>>26712818
GF can obviously do whatever they want, but what myself and the other anons are saying is that having two separate Pokemon lines dedicated to tapirs that eat dreams is overkill and random as shit. We know why they did it (gen v was just bootleg gen 1) but munna seems like a place that they conceptually dropped the ball. Instead of being a drowzee analogue, munna is just a reimagining of the same idea. Same animal, same folklore, same typing
>>26712901
>A pink blob with a snout and flowers is a malayan tapir
No
>>26712095
Golduck, Ludicolo and MAYBE Magmar are all kappa.
Electabuzz, Sawk and Throh are all oni.
Game Freak doesn't care.
>>26712853
I don't even mind munna. But unnecessary insults aside, I think you just phrased what I'm trying to say pretty well. There's a difference between two tapirs, or two bakus, or whatever, and two psychic type tapirs based on Baku. The only difference is that they look different. Being the same animal is way different from being the same animal with the same typing based on the same lore. I can't actually think of another case of this happening off the top of my head.
Do you think there should only be one animal of each type in real life?
>>26712819
I think it's because Unova was meant to be a soft reboot, with new Pokemon filling the same niches as older ones.
>>26712974
New oni, new manmade legend (Mewtwo, Genesect), new baku, new cats, new dogs, new pigeon, new frogs, new "Pokemon are really from space, you guys!" mons... you get the idea.
Why do people forget Gen 5 Pokemon were mostly all based on Gen 1 Pokemon? That's why Munna/Musharna are so similar to Drowzee, it as basically "what if we made Drowzee now? What would we do differently?"
>>26712863
>implying the english names mean anything at all
the stupid is real here.
>>26712974
The kappa is also way more widely known. Golduck is the only Pokemon expressly described as based on the kappa, and none of those Pokemon have the same typing. The only real similarity is some vague ducklike characteristics.
>>26712995
What other type would a baku be but Psychic-type? That's the type that makes the most sense. This is like complaing that a fish is water type.
>>26712997
No one is saying there can't be more than one Pokemon based on a given animal. No oneit's saying GF can't do anything. Read the fucking thread
>>26712790
Then why does its name reference primates even in japanese?
>>26713058
People are saying there can't be more than one pokemon based on a given mythological being though
>>26713075
Oh, no, but it's PSYCHIC-TYPE too. THAT'S the straw that broke the camel's back. That's what we've moved the goalpost to. As though a baku would be any other type.
>>26713038
But why a new Baku and not just a new tapir? Is a Baku some sort of staple that I wasn't aware of? Foongus and amoongus didn't need to be exploding balls.
>>26712995
Bakus ARE tapirs though. It's like complaining all unicorns are horses.
>>26713085
>>26712787
And who cares if they wanted to do another baku? If they came up with a design they thought was cool and new, why should they go "well we did a baku already so I guess we can't use this design now!"? That's fucking stupid. They shouldn't have to limit themselves like that. There would be some leg to stand on if it actually LOOKED like Drowzee in any capacity but they're totally different.
>>26713081
It's a two staged psychic tapir based on the same obscure folklore. Discreetly chopping my argument into pieces like I'm saying they only have one thing in common is just a straw man.
>>26713107
>psychic tapir based on the same obscure folklore
If they're gonna make a baku pokemon, it goes without saying it'd be psychic and a tapir. If they do it again, it'd obviously still be those two things.
>>26713107
>It's just a strawman, I'm not seriously that shallow
Yeah, okay. Oh shit now it's because it has TWO STAGES too. Jesus christ. There's literally 3 things it could have been, 2 stage, 1 stage, or 3 stages. It's an early game Pokemon so it really has to evolve, so really it could only be two things. So because it happened to end up 2 stage is ALSO a strike against it? Hypno isn't even a tapir anymore. Musharna actually stays one.
>Obscure folklore
A baku is not "obscure folklore". It's a fantasy staple over there.
>>26713107
>obscure folklore
>>26713085
Bakus are so damn huge in japan they've been turned into cute anime girls who's entire powerset is 'she eats dreams'
>Spearow and Pidgey
Really Gamefreak? TWO generic bird Pokemon? In the same gen? Remember back when Gamefreak was creative?
>>26713101
I guess I'm just saying that it's odd that they only look different. I don't have any problem with Munna. It just seems silly that they made a second Pokemon based on the same obscure folklore down to such a t. It's not like the wellspring of unused mythical creatures is dried up or anything. Tbqh I like munna more anyways.
>>26713163
They have totally different stats and roles in battle, and Munna and Musharna are the Dream World mascots. The only difference isn't that they look different.
>>26713161
They're both normal and flying too!
>>26713161
Generic bird is pretty mundane though. I think most people expect this. Not all Pokemon have a capital C Concept. You'd think that when they do, however, there's at least be some variety
>>26713188
Yeah but it's okay since Pidgey evolves twice instead of only once. Munna and Drowzee, on the other hand, are positively egregious.
>>26713197
Munna and Drowzee are variety. They look and act completely different.
>>26713197
A baku is mundane to them too. Do you complain that there's more than one generic dragon Pokemon? Why are Salamence and Dragonite okay? 3 stage, same typing, same idea. It's even a previously non-flying dragon that becomes a flying type.
>>26713136
What, no. I'm just saying that on paper they have more in common than they don't. By a lot. You'll have to forgive me on that second point. I'm a much of a weeb, and I'd never heard of a Baku before this thread. In any case, the definition of a straw man is taking an opposing argument and making a weaker version of it that is easier to refute, so I called that correctly. Sorry
>>26713236
Dragon is literally a type though. Of course it has to be populated by fucking dragons
>>26713257
Charizard, Altaria, and a baku would be Psychic-type
>>26713236
I don't think bakus and dragons are as mundane as birds anon
>>26713266
What?
>>26713277
Charizard is a generic dragon that is not Dragon-type, Altaria is a Dragon-type but is far from a generic western winged dragon despite sharing the same type, and by the same logic that Dragons should be dragon type, baku should be psychic type because it's just the type that makes the most sense.
Butterfree
Beautifly
>>26713295
>Both of their names even start with B
JUST
Something you guys are forgetting is that the theme of the two evolutionary lines is slightly different. While both about the baku concept, which is why they are both tapir-like (Especially Drowzee - it literally is just a yellow bipedal malayan tapir), Drowzee and Hypno are based off of hypnosis, whereas Munna and Musharna are based off of the burning of incense.
Yes there's the same theme of dream-eating, but that comes in tandem with being based off of baku. At least there is something from a conceptual standpoint to separate them, as well as the obvious visual aspects.
>>26712304
>>26712114
I know it's way later and I'm not involved with this argument at all, but you're a fucking retard if you think "Two tapir-like pokemon who are both based on putting people to sleep and eating their dreams" is exactly the same as "Five pokemon based on the same general species", you're a fucking retard. Maybe if Munna and Drowzee were both vermin, and they both just happened to be psychic types, it could be comparable, but they have the exact same concept. Sure, their designs are pretty different, and the frogs all have some design similarities (IE they're all blue, for some reason, and they're all bipedal), but that's not what we're talking about.
>>26711846
Gen 5 contained many pokemon that were intentionally based on Gen 1 pokemon, because they did that whole thing where you can only find gen 5 pokemon in B/W until the endgame. Granted, it was a stupid idea, but some "redesigns" of gen 5 pokemon ended up looking a lot better than the pokemon they were based on. Munna, however, is not one of those pokemon.
>>26713288
Again, what? That has nothing to do with my post. Anon I replied to said that if munna is a rehash, then so is every generic dragon. To which I responded, "but dragon is a type, obviously there are going to be multiple dragons to populate it." What the fuck does altaria is have to do with anything? Or charizard? Altaria isn't "literally just a dragon like salamence and dragonite and druddigon" so they are 100% not what we were talking about. Also, I never implied there should be a Pokemon based on the Baku that isn't psychic type, so I don't know what that was about either. I'm not OP, btw, I don't care how many Pokemon are based on the same thing as I have said every time someone has accused me of having a problem with this and that frog or this and that bird. That is literally not what I've been saying. I've just been saying that of all of the Pokemon that share a concept, munna and drowzee are closer than anything else I can think of. Anons then educated me on the fact that Bakus are hot in Japan, something I did not know, as I do not live in Japan. Had I known that before, I might've instead replied, don't worry OP, they're based on Baku, which is a popular yokai in Japan. They probably just decided drowzee wasn't cute or marketable enough to satisfy the craving
>>26713348
Jesus fucking Christ this
>>26713311
Good point. I had forgotten about the incense theme
>>26711907
monsters in my monster catching game?
>>26711846
So both girls and boys can have their own. You know, pink is for girls and yellow for boys.
>>26713348
I would also put Munna along the lines of a cle fairy counterpart, if just a little. Both are cutesy pink pokemon that evolve by moon stone
>>26713447
Fair point. It's a bit of a mix of both.
>>26712644
You post it like there's nobody moaning about it.
I love you all for destroying OP. So tired of these kinds of threads
>>26713033
>mostly
You do realise only five or so lines can apply right?
>>26711846
>>26712834
No, you said that Darmanitan is not based on a primate, because it's based on Daruma. How did you forget that already?
>>26711846
>Why create two Pokemon based on the same thing?
>Same thing different pocket monster
>>26713036
Chikorita IS the Japanese name
But that poster is still dumb, because chicory means "a flowering plant"
Munna is literally just a reference to a gen 1 quote.
>>26713588
those piknickers always give out 420 cash, I'm suspicious
>>26711907
>>26711846
You just noticed? Every gen re-does the pokes from the gen before. They make some changes to make them unique but the idea is the same.
It goes like this
Musharna > Hypno > Drowzee > Muna
Musharana is the best gen 5 Pokemon.
Prove me right.
>>2671270 You're right but part of it is based on a ape, look at it.
They can based a design on more than one thing
>>26713765
no one asked for it to be a cherry blossom fetus though
>>26712773
Better than "fuck everything and pander to nostalgiafags" Gen 6
>>26712137
that is his mouth there is no way he has a jew nose like that all this time.
>>26711846
Who cares? They're both inferior to other Psychic types from the same Gen
Alakazam>Hypno
Reuniclus>Musharna
>>26711846
Munna and Musharna were designed to be throwbacks to Drowzee and Hypno, its the same as many other Pokemon from Gen 5 being throwbacks to Gen 1 Pokemon. It's really not hard to understand.
>>26712898
This. Real life pretty much only has one bird, I don't get why Game Freak does this.
>>26713543
That's the concept behind gen5 though.
>>26713588
>gen1 says that it exists
>gen3 says they wish it existed
What did the original Japanese gen1 text say?
>>26714845
>Bill_Cosby.jpg
>>26713543
Counting them up
1.Tympole-poliwag
2.Munna-drowazee
3.Sawk-hitmon
4.Throh-chanlee
5.purrloin-meowth
6.Roggenrola
7.rufflet-spearow
8.Moleboy-digglet
10.Bouffalant-tauros
11.Heart Zubat
12.Blitzle-ponyta
13.Crabblet-Crabby
14.Genesect-mewtweo
And they all match the tier evolutions of their counterparts as well.
>>26712107
The Tympole line and the Poliwag line, Throh and Sawk and Hitmonlee and Hitmonchan, the Timburr line and the Machop line, Audino and Chansey, Bouffallant and Tauros, the Trubbish line and the Grimer line, the Klink line and the Magnemite line, etc.
>>26714931
>>26714943
Fungus and Voltorb too.
>>26711846
>>26711907
>>26712066
>>26714931
>>26713033
>>26713543
This is a logical fallacy. I forgot the name of it. But, it basically states that humans always compare the first item in a series to items that follow it.
>>26714931
>>26714943
>>26714943
>>26714948
This might be stretching it, but the monkeys and the gen1 eevolutions and legendary birds might apply as well.
Lillipup and Growlithe really is stretching it, this definitely doesn't count. Neither do the early birds.
>>26714931
Also Audino and chansey.
>>26714976
>muh fallacies
I wish I could find it, but they even said in an interview that the 5th gen mons were based on 1st gen. I'll look for it in the mean time.
>>26714976
Look for some gen5 interview, they said they did this on purpose multiple times. We are ignoring when the same happened in other gens for obvious reasons, but stuff like Fungus/Voltorb is literally that (they work exactly the same in the game). If I remember correctly they even considered taking away all of the pre-gen5 pokemon in bw, but ended up having them only in the postgame instead. That's the concept of gen5.
>>26715002
Every generation is based on the first gen, because the first gen is what started it. That's what I'm saying.
>Pick a starter
>catch Pokemon
>collect badges
>beat evil team
>>26715069
That's not what we're talking about. See >>26715005
One is a tapir, the other is a pillow
>>26714931
>>Purrloin=Meowth
This is stupid, you're basically saying any cat pokemon is inspired by Meowth.
>>Rufflet/Spearow
>comparing a baby eagle to a sparrow just because they're both 2 stage flying types
>Crabblet
It's name is Dwebble, and Dwebble and Krabby are two completely different kinds of crabs. Clawitzer is closer to the Krabby line than Dwebble, and even that's a stretch.
While there are some Pokemon that are remixes of Gen 1 Pokemon, a lot of these are idiotic reaches. Next you'll be saying any Pokemon that evolves via trade is inspired by the Machop line.
>>26715778
Machop line is the pioneer on trade evolution
>>26711846
Why create two animals based on the same thing?
bump btw
>>26711907
Oh fuck, I never even noticed the connection. These have just always been some of my favorite pokemon. God, we need more monsters in this pocket monster game.
>>26712595
You know as much as I loved this part of the series, I always forget how fucking dumb the munna thing was.
>>26712098
gen 3 didn't have a frog iirc
poli line
politoed
?
drunk boxer frog
toad
froakie
>>26712786
humans are pokemon.
>>26719651
Swampert.
>>26719899
>Swampert
>frog
>>26714931
>stretch
>stretch
>yes
>stretch
>yes
>stretch
>stretch
>yes
>yes
>stretch
>stretch
>yes
Huh, he was right. Five pokemon.
