They made a great pokemon, sweet design, awesome moves, even with multiscale, but it had to have a 4x weakness! to such an offensive type nonetheless. Its ruined, it will never be able to function competitively no matter what they do. Poor pokemon, so close to being good, with such a shitty type combination
>it's a "passive-aggressive shitposting regarding a non-issue" episode
Senpai that's not aurorus.
>>26615259
>one 4x weakness vs two 4x weakness
Moonfags are cute with their denial
>>26615259
The reason dragonite is any good is because it has an ability that makes moves do half damage anon
>>26615295
This
Without it it was always just a bad salamence
>>26615295
>>26615310
>>26615286
>Missing the point entirely
>>26615325
And what is that point? You should have used Garchomp/Lando/Ferrothorn
>>26615286
Oh no a weakness to the super common Ghost type moves that everything carries!
>>26615336
Point is lunaala can be a legendary dragonite, there's no reason to believeshewill be shit because of two 4x weaknesses, one of which is of a type that isnt exactly top tier competitively, and that it can easily counter
>>26615376
But she doesn't have that ability and she gets fucked by shadow sneak knock off and sucker punch, Dragonite can work around these with Exreme Speed
>>26615383
...she does though. Her ability functions like multiscale, its just named differently, like solgaleo's is just clear body with adifferent name.
And there is nothing to say she wont get any good priority moves. I'll give you the fact sucker punch will fuck her up, but shadow sneak is very rare.
>>26615395
Where does she get that ability?
>>26615360
>what is knock off
>>26615419
I recall seeing several people mentioning how shadow shield was just multiscale, amidst the horde of leofags complaining they got legendary metagross. I don't remember the exact thread, but it was recent so check the archives
Still waiting a "2x limit" for Resistance/Weakness.
>2016
>Smogon mentality
>Not running Extremespeed, Multiscale Dragonite w/ Weakness Policy
>>26615478
>>26615548
>Not bothering to read the 6 word long 10 replies to this thread
I good this is a Lunaala and not a Rowlet thread.
Lunaala could still possibly be shit, Dragonite's multiscale protects it from OHKOs because it's typically defending it from non-STAB ice beams or evej worse ice punch or hidden power. Mamoswine can OHKO Dragonite straight through multiscale with icicle crash.
Considering Lunaala is 4x weak to several key moves like sucker punch, knock off and pursuit, dark pokemon with STAB on these moves are much more plentiful than good ice pokemon to OHKO Dragonite, and Lunaala is potentially frailer than Dragonite especially since it'll probably be running a fully offensive 252/252 spread not!multiscale might not save it alone.
If lunalas stats are such that it gets OHKOd by pursuit megazor, aegislash, or scarftar, then it will probably not reach uber
The actual problem with both Dragonite and Lunaala isn't merely that they have x4 weaknesses, but that their dual typings have bad defensive and offensive synergy. Defensively both Flying and Psychic bring way more flaws than benefits for their other type while not providing any major offensive benefits (or none at all in Dragonite's case unless you use the meme Fly set that doesn't use Dragon STAB anyway).
>>26615259
Multiscale makes the 4x weakness not matter at all. You always get at least 1 kill with Dragonite. Either with Weakness Policy or Choice Band.
>>26615310
I've never liked Salamence though. To me Dragonite is goofy looking and cool and Salamence just looks fucking stupid.
>>26615325
I know right? If only we had an example of how with multiscale it doesn't matter 4x weakness. Darn it, who could we pick as dragonite is obviously not even up for consideration. (By the by, I am with you anon, the sunfags are just being butthurt)
>>26615795
missing the point
>>26615842
Getting the point, based anon
>>26615458
It's on the fucking Pokemon website for christs sake
>moonfags are THIS butthurt that their legendary is literally aurorus tier
at least don't do a false equivalence and actually compare it to aurorus since they both have 2 4x weaknesses
"b-but multiscale ability!" yeah better keep something dedicated to stop stealth rocks from potentially breaking it
>>26616023
Man, you sunfags must've been very hurt by your own legendary if you're resorting to coparing lunaala to aurorus
>B-but 2 4x weaknesse!"
And 2 immunities, 2 resistances and a much better potential movepool
>>26616073
>immune to fighting and normal
okay? cool? not like every fighting type carries knock off to cover psychic types anyways, and what good pokemon relies on a normal attack that matters matters? you could talk about M-Lopunny if it weren't for the fact it got scrappy
>2 resistances
on this point, aurorus has four resistances
i guess your shit legendary is even worse than aurorus lmao
>>26615478
mega fug moves behind anything goes :^)
>>26615431
Not a Ghost type move, dumbass.
>>26616201
No, it's even better
>>26615271
Story of this board
>>26616201
Are you stupid? It's a dark type move, and it has a quadruple weakness to it too
>>26615548
>using the meme-set
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 354-421 (109.5 - 130.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
That's through Multiscale. If you get it on the switch, Dragonite is KO. Also, the mere existence of Stealth Rocks and the wide distribution of ice attacks makes the set quite bad. Lum Berry or Choice Band are better.
>>26615376
She's outclassed by Lugia who also has Multiscale with a much better typing
Offensively it's impossible to tell yet, but Psychic is not a good offensive type at all and Ghost has a competition in form of Giratina-O, Mega Gengar and Arceus Ghost. She also doesn't have much in terms of type resists. She'll be taking a lot of neutral hits.
This all breaks down to the last and most important point: Moon's legendary is better then Sun's legendary. Go ahead, cry it out sunfags. You made the wrong decision based off of memes, and now you are reaping the results of bad decisions.
>>26616574
why the fuck would dragonite switch in to that
>>26616574
>(X) is shit because Weavile used _____
When will this meme die?
How would Lum or Band help out in that situation?
>>26618134
It will never die because weavile is god-like
Lunala will be OU day one, calling it now. And even then it will be because of stats alone. I could see it getting knocked down to UU in time.
>>26618358
>calling weavile god-like
You made me laugh anon, good for you!
>>26616218
>>26616239
Are you retarded?
Look at the first post of the argument
>>26615286
>one 4x weakness vs two 4x weakness
It doesn't matter because Ghost moves are nowhere near as common as Dark moves.
>>26615360
Dark(especially) and ghost are common and good offensive types. idk where tf you've been
>people saying Lunaala will be OU
It's faster and stronger than Gengar with a 110 base power STAB special ghost move. It's defenses are irrelevant.
You know, it is bad when fans of a pokemon game are this hurt about their box legendary, but I am not an unreasonable man. All you sun haters have to say is "The moon rules supreme!" And that will be enough for me to let you on the winning moon team.
>>26615259
nearly every dragon until gen 5 had a double weakness. It was just a Nerf, so that Dragon wasn´t that OP. Dragon resists nearly everything, and dragon also was until then always a boss-tier type.
>>26615360
>What is Ubers
>What is Knock Off
>What is Pursuit
>What is Sucker Punch
if you honestly think a 4x weakness is worse than 2 2x weaknesses you are retarded
>>26618081
Except Solgaleo is better both competitively and designwise. KOs a full HP Salamence with a neutral STAB attack and also just looks much better than Lunaala.
Also has a better typing for checking both Dragons and Fairies.
>>26616023
Who is the guy in the pic. I remember he had a youtube but forgot the name.
>>26622094
>Missing the fucking point for the millionth time
Read. The. Fucking. Thread. Before. Posting
>Dragonite's multiscale protects it from its shitty 4x ice weakness when almost all common or meta ice moves are non-stab low bp wastes of a moveslot
>still dies to strong STAB ice moves regardless
>Lunaala has a 4x weakness to dark, in a format absolutely saturated with STAB knock off users
Totally equivalent guys.
>>26622293
Chad Warden
>>26622320
He actually posted somewhat correctly, he just typoed on the 2x part.
>>26616023
>>26615286
>>26622094
>not knowing that Marshadow will be fire/dark and have a dual type signature fire/dark that will be 4x on both box legends.
>>26622484
Don't forget all of the Ghost/Dark coverage already in Ubers for, sound off:
Mega Gengar
Mewtwo and its Megas
Lugia
Soul Dew Lati@s
Deoxys
Giratina
Arceus-Ghost
Aegislash
Shedinja
Don't forget the primary stabs of M-Gengar, M-Sableye, Shedinja, Giratina-O, Darkrai, Aegislash, Yveltal, and Hoopa-U.
Ubers is the tier with the least Knock Off distribution, but it comes overprepared for Lunaala's typing by sheer accident.
Lunaala is going to plummet like Kyurem and become the stat-brick of either UU, or if it gets really unlucky, RU. The deeper into tiers you go, the more Knock-Off shows up, so Lunaala won't even dominate there. Unless its ability is so broken it makes Talonflame blush, this goose is cooked.
Why are people pretending to know more about the legendaries than they do? All we know
>Their types
>Some of what their abilities do
That's it. We don't know stat distribution, we don't know how powerful their moves are, we don't know how their move pool will be, nothing.
Have two 4x weaknesses won't be that bad for it. OP makes a great point with Dragonite. All you assblasted faggots need to stop pretending you have any idea what tier either of the legendaries will end up in.
>>26622803
>Have two 4x weaknesses won't be that bad for it.
moonfags in denial yet again
Unless it has insane bulk to make up for the ghost/dark type users in ubers, it's going to be shit comparatively
>>26622830
First off, I'm a sunfag all the way. Solgaleo's the coolest looking legendary we've ever had, and steel is my favorite type. So fuck off with that shit.
Second off
>Unless it has blah blah
Fuck you, it might. You have no idea. Or it might be so fast it doesn't give a fuck. Or million other things. And anyway, only complete faggots play Ubers. OU is the patrician tier. Not that I would expect you summerfags to know that.
>>26622803
Actually, we have a more or less solid grip on Solgaleo from the trailer.
150ish Base HP, 150ish Base Attack provided SS strike is base 130 for a bare minimum KO, only some of the time(Or Special attack if SS strike is weird), and over 100 speed to outspeed 'mence. Under 280 of its BST is still up for grabs, and that is assuming SS Strike has that high of power.
Cover legendaries tend to have complementary stats, though the exact distribution is still unknown.
>>26622861
Well, considering there is a chance it may get kicked downstairs...
>>26622861
i was about to take you seriously until you said OU is the patrician tier
i mean it's not bad but patirician? nah
either way, "it might!" isn't a good argument in itself
>>26616218
Dark is just an objectively worse version of Ghost offensively though.
>>26622861
PU is the patrician tier though.
>>26622887
Again, those are all guesses. We don't know EVs or IVs of either Pokemon involved. Best guess we have is HP. Nobody cares about HP.
We know even less about the attacking stats because we don't know what the base stat of the attack is. It could be a move that takes a turn to charge, is 300bp, and takes a turn to recover. I don't think it's likely, but we don't know. That being said, I agree that we can make some pretty educated guesses about Solgaleo. That doesn't translate well to Lunala.
>>26622941
>It might! isn't a good argument.
That's literally your whole argument. "It might be bad! It might not have good stats!" Go take some summer school or something until you hit puberty.
>>26622220
Kek, good one anon. Don't care how much he KOs a salamence. Moon bat would kill him. Sun lion loses in battle. It is okay, cry it out.
>>26623243
>Suicune can beat ho-oh so that means Suicune is better.
I'm so fucking tired of summer already. Please go.
>>26622861
You know what anon, you pretty cool for a sun lion fan. Also you are proof that not all sun lion fans are jerks. So, in light of this, I will more the concede that you make several good points. I say this to prove that not all moon bat fans are jerks. I also take back some of the things I said and apologize for them. They were said in anger.
>>26623362
You're a pretty cool guy too. Not just for a moonbitch, but in general. Thanks for a lively debate. Guess I'll smell ya later!
>>26618096
>>26618134
You don't switch in and neither Lum Berry nor Band would help.
But vp-fags act like Dragonite takes any ice-move like a champ, when in reality it still gets shat on by many ice-moves.
Just to give you some context, this is what a defensive Donphan does with Ice Shard:
4 Atk Donphan Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 72-86 (22.2 - 26.6%) -- 14.8% chance to 4HKO
4 Atk Donphan Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dragonite: 144-172 (44.5 - 53.2%) -- 26.2% chance to 2HKO
It's not enough to beat it if Dragonite uses Outrage, but it will be weakened and locked into Outrage. At that point you should have something to outspeed and defeat that Dragonite, that has at best 33% health left and sits at base 80 speed.
Extremespeed won't help Dragonite either, because it's too weak to beat Donphan.
+2 252+ Atk Dragonite Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Donphan: 280-330 (72.9 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Donphan: 124-147 (32.2 - 38.2%) -- 1.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
I don't think it's a good idea to bank on the Weakness Policy. At this point, everyone knows about that set and probably won't use a super effective move to break the Multiscale. And if you switch in on an Ice-move (Or most super effective moves, for that matter), your sweet Dragonite sweep probably won't happen because it can be picked off by anything that survives an Extreme Speed and KOs it back, or you're forced to go for Outrage so you're not KO'd by the Pokemon that activated the Weakness Policy and get revenge killed by anything that is faster than your Dragonite.
I think it's the least useful set, because of the huge opportunity cost.
>>26623452
>MISSING THE FUCKING POINT FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME
I don't care if you actually read or not, if you want to discuss dragonite make a dragonite thread, he was just a damn metaphor for lunala, now fuck off.
>>26623362
>>26623431
You two are pretty nice, keep making both sides look good
>>26623311
You know, again you make me laugh. So I will explain the several factors from start to finish why Lunala is better then Solgaleo. Also, I am ten years or more out of any school buddy. So you would get this all year around. One, typing of both is pretty unremarkable. True in this one catagory Solgaleo slightly wins, as psychic/steel is pretty good. Still that is it's only win, and actually a lose aginst lunala directly as main attack is either steel or psychic to take advantage of Solgaleo's stab. Neither of which would be a weakness for lunala, so lunala has nothing to fear from his most "powerful" attack. The reason why is for lack of a better way of saying it, Solgaleo's ability is just a renamed clear body. Means he doesn't even get any help from an ability attack or defence wise. Lunala gets a multiscale ability, which helps with defensive side of things. Means first turn is probably not going to be first ko for you either way. Then there is moongiest beam. A ghost or dark attack as it was super effective aginst a gengar. Means in one on one action Solgaleo is toast. Also means you have to come up with all kinds of ways to get around Lunala's ability, while all I have to do is pwn you.
>>26623491
>pwn
I'm going to assume this is bait, but since /vp/ has the single largest amount of underage posters on the site I'll instead humour the thought you're an earnest and stupid 14 year old.
Solgaleo losing to Lunaala in a 1v1 scenario does not make Lunaala the generally better pokemon. Mega Mawile is hard countered by Arcanine, guess which is the better pokemon.
>>26623491
For the love of God, please listen to >>26623638 .
He got my point across with far less swearing and yelling. Not that you'll understand or listen, because you haven't gotten to the point where you can grow body hair, but one can hope.
>>26623638
Not that I would care either way. Though good use of mega mawile, I like mega mawile too. Back to the main point made. Wouldn't matter if what I just said was a fight aginst Solgaleo or a fight aginst another pokemon. The odds of it koing Lunala in one turn just based on Lunala's ability is really low. If Lunala gets a decent defencive spread, which with Lunala's ability why not, you have something you pretty much have to put out another wall to ko. Lunala is more OU material then Solgaleo.
>>26623737
Wew, your point is noted. Still if you look at it from another way it might help. If you compared the 2 pokemon with previous pokemon, who would they remind you of? I can answer that easily, Solgaleo is Metagross. Lunala is Hoopa. Oh wait, Hoopa is in OU. Normal Metagross is in UU, so let's give Solgaleo a bone and say he is close to meha Metagross. Except I can't even say that, because mega Metagross' ability is far better then Solgaleo's ability by far.
>>26623947
>Hoopa is in OU
Hoopa is ubers now.
post yfw when weakness policy activates
>>26623484
The point is, that multiscale doesn't suddenly mean "lol, being weak to 4 times effective moves doesn't even matter anymore".
I'm surprised Dragonite even hangs around in OU, if you consider that even Salamence dropped to UU some time ago.
If Lunaala doesn't have some fantastical stats and/or a great movepool, that 4 times weakness is going to hurt a lot in Ubers or OU. Even with multiscale. Just look at other legendaries with similar type problems, like Articuno, Moltres
>>26615259
Nigga looks so happy to be delivering mail.
Like the mill closed down years ago, and he has gainful employment for the first time since.
As long as moon bat has decent speed, you'll be able to slap on a weakness policy and do fine.
The real problem is that it's ugly as sin.
>>26624167
>>26623198
>That's literally your whole argument.
no, that's yours
the argument being put forth is that the two quite common 4x weaknesses make it shit, even though it has multiscale
that's literally it
you are trying to counter this argument by saying "it might have absurdly high stats, we don't know!"
reform your argument and stop projecting while you're at it
Lunala being x4 weak to ghost and dark is hardly relevant. None of those go over 80-90 base power, except for one two-turn attack used by an uber-tier ghost who would fuck up Lunala's shit anyways. And if she's defensively built like everyone's expecting (at least 100-120 in hp/def/s.def), then a BP80/90 non-stab attack with half of a x4 multiplier off base 100 special attack will 2hit only because the second hit gets the full x4 bonus. Except a smart person would've switched her out after the first shadow ball or dark pulse obviously, because ghost has lots of useful switch ins to get a free recover off and she'll still be in the green after the first hit thanks to the ability.
Sucker punch won't be destroying anything that isn't using a damage attack, unless they used taunt first. And that's assuming the giant night bat doesn't have the typical high speed bats tend to, and doesn't also get access to her own taunt to block your taunt and setup with near impunity. Though if you do get a taunt off, it basically becomes a free pursuit for obvious reasons. Shadow sneak will do about half the damage sucker punch or pursuit would've but won't fail and has priority, but its distribution is rare enough that anyone would see it coming a mile away.
Yes, Lunala will suffer from shadow ball and dark pulse being TMs that practically anything can learn. But she doesn't have much to fear from anything else that isn't taunt, her ability lets her safely tank one hit that would otherwise cripple or one-shot, and her ghost typing lets her safely switch in on two common types. Has issues, obviously, but still looks usable.
>>26624505
All he needs to take is a little bit of chip damage before NotMultiscale breaks and sets him up for instant death from Sucker Punch if he stays in and Pursuit if he tries to run. He's gone after one bad guess.
>>26624610
That sort of situation would kill any normal ghost or psychic and even a couple of uber ones, except in Lunala's case they need to force it to take chip damage first. I'm not counting it as a point against her, she has a notable advantage against the competition in that case.
>>26622220
We don't know the level difference between that Solgaleo and Salamence, idiot
>>26624752
>both are level 50
>but the level difference!
you might wanna watch that video again
>>26624752
>>26624862
Kek. I love it when arrogant shits get btfo
I don't want this thread to die
>>26615295
Guess what, bro? Lunala has the same ability!
>>26616982
And normal arceus almost always carries ghost coverage
