Johto appreciation thread?
Easily the comfiest region to date, it got that rural, rustic charm to it and is a beautiful counterpart to the more barren, technological kanto
Thread music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vo1NV4-hL7M
This thread won't get much attention because underage kids love to bash Johto for no good reason.
SHIT TASTE EVERYWHERE
>>26600405
You just had to ruin a good thread.
>>26599685
Does anyone have this great poster of the HeartGold&SoulSilver Remake where the trainer runs towards this tower together with his Cyndaquil? I'd love to print it out and hang it on the wall, poster-sized of course.
>>26599685
Obligatory.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XjouKSkSeM
>>26600405
Just Hoennshitters, ignore it and post good Johto music.
>>26599685
>about to face the elite four
>highest level in my team is 39
>Gen 2
>>26600435
Yes! Is there any chance that this was captured in a higher resolution?
>>26599685
simply the best starters ever, doggy trio best trio
>>26599685
Johto is the best region, no contest. I'd live there for sure.
Best gym leader in Johto coming through!
Can I get some nice Typhlosion pics, /vp/?
>>26600452
Git gud.
>>26599685
It's the most distinctly Japanese looking region.
I love the autumn feel of the region.
loved how the bell tower area looked in hgss
Just best starter passing by
>>26604160
Holy shit am I glad sprites are dead
>>26603940
It's based on the old capital region of Japan, so that's why. Kyoto. Kanto is based on Tokyo
>>26600435
wait, this is official art?
holy shit. Does HGSS have more official art I dont know about?
>>26604243
But that looks great though?
Johto has one of the best in-game overworlds, aesthetics wise
>>26604324
Sure, whatever helps you sleep at night.
>>26604445
Man, these past few days have had some of the newfaggiest comments since Ive been here.
I might as well be on Facebook
>>26604445
You're not being very comfy, anon. Get comfy or get out
Also, Pinball version of the Ecruteak theme is comfy af guys. How did this song get into Pokemon Pinball? Didn't Pinball come out first? Did GSC rip this song from Pinball and reuse it, or did the developers of Pinball know about elements of GSC during it's development?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBe2FSsJo8s
My least favourite generation
>>26604721
>Since Ive be2n here
You mean all two days, yeah.
Fuck off back there
>>26600533
>best gym leader
I mean, Falkner is okay. To this day it'll still bug me that they couldn't have gone through the minuscule amount of effort to give him a Hoothoot or Noctowl. I didn't much care as a kid, but it seems weird to me.
>>26599685
Johto sequel with rebuilt burnt tower when?
>>26604940
Fuck that, Johto prequel when? Falkner's dad as a gym leader, maps and ideas that borrow from the beta of GSC, wasn't there an old man in Goldenrod who said the Radio Tower was built in the spot where an old tower like the Sprout Tower used to be?
Game Freak would never do it because going too far into the past just brings up problems with the technology used in the games, but if handled right a Johto prequel could be cool as shit
GSC Johto is great
HGSS killed it for all the reasons I liked it, but is at core a better game
>>26605149
>>Combined Kanto/Johto prequel exploring past, more traditional Johto in the Johto side, and the creation of the Pokedex and Mewtwo's origin in the Kanto side.
My dick.
>>26604275
that explains a lot.
>>26604324
it looks so crisp and clean.
>>26605179
What did they ruin? Genuinely curious. I loved them both to death.
>>26605179
IMHo it didn't ruin it at all. If anything it just added to the atmosphere seeing all the autumn leaves, the improved soundtrack, the graphics.
The only thing I didn't quite like as much was that the story was more in-your face about obtaining Lugia/Ho-Oh. But it was a minor detraction for me. Plus I brought a Ho-Oh via PalPark to Bell Tower before capturing Ho-Oh in HG and there was a nice easter egg with the follower Ho-Oh.
>>tfw the GS ball never brought up in HGSS
They didn't even bring it up again in the games. They just fucking dropped that plotline for stupid reasons in the anime and completely erased it from the entire franchise afterwards. At least Special got the time to do it right.
>>26605179
>impeccable taste
(You)'ve got it.
>>26605179
What are those reasons that you liked it for?
>>26605272
>>26605285
Not that anon, but I think it's just a case of the new Johto not being what people imagined it to be (you know, low-res sprites mean people can interpret things in many different ways). I personally pictured Johto as being very different to how it was in HGSS - much thinner pine trees, greener grass, very different building styles in Ecruteak, Olivine and Cianwood, and so on. And that's not counting the stuff that they actively DID change, like fucking up the Goldenrod music, switching out Kris for the new female protagonist, Ilex Forest not having big bulbous trees like it did in the original, Mt. Silver having so many outdoor sections and so on. Also changing Tin Tower to Bell Tower, I don't care if Tin Tower was originally a mistranslation, it'll always be Tin Tower to me.
HG/SS is my favorite set of games in the series but I can sympathize if it didn't live up to the nostalgic image people had in their head. That's the trouble with remakes of anything really.
>>26605285
What's the easter egg?
>>26605413
I'm now grateful for the nostalgia boner it gave me. Gen 2 4lyfe
Pokeathlon is one of the reasons why HGSS is my favourite. Has anything else utilised the touch screen as well as that?
>>26605413
Weird. I honestly was giddy when I first played HG, and I feel like they went to a very great extent to preserve the feeling of the originals, more than in any other remake. The houses, the tilings, everything feels like I had always imagined. It's still the Tin Tower in my mind too, but Id on't really mind Bell Tower, it's no biggie to me. Dropping Kris was kind of bummer, though, i forgot about that, i wonder why they did that, crystal introduced the first female protagonist after all and they erased her from the remake.
>>26605149
That map is boring as fuck why would you want to use it.
>>26605272
I hate the aesthetics of HGSS, anywhere there is grass short or tall looks like shit to me, I hate the bluish color used for the short and the weird pasty look the tall has to me, though I understand it's meant to look more like an actual bunch of tall grass which it does more than the little bushes most of the series has. Caves seem too bright too, especially after Platinum actually had lighting to make caves darker. The only areas I really like are Cianwood, which has minimal greenery, and Ecruteak, which has the great autumn look. I honestly would've pushed Johto's fall feeling more and given the whole region that sort of look, or at least had it transition into it more from the edges to the center with Ecruteak rather than suddenly orange everywhere for the duration of one town.
There's also some other nitpicky complaints I have like transitioning into the PokeGear menu for calls, the PokeGear not having a skin similar to the originals other than the Rocket one, or no room customization, or Buena's sprite no longer matching her old one at all which I swear there was art to match but I can't find it anywhere, all the new dialogue feeling very awkward like Brock suddenly screaming "it itches! it itches!" when you have him on the ropes, Mt. Moon Plaza just playing the normal cave music most of the time, some of the arranges of old music, or the GB Sounds being off from the originals.
Though as the other guy said, this might be because the original is so dear.
>>26605553
nah it was just an example of one of the beta maps, with that one in particular it's easy to see why they took it out, having to go through that bullshit winding grass path to get to Mt. Silver would be awful
>>26605527
I don't think so, pokeathlon was a real nice addition to the game.
>>26605429
Your Ho-Oh gets a unique reaction if you talk to it while in Bell Tower if the Kimono girls are summoning Ho-Oh at the top. Like it's hyped itself, it sort of shivers and then dialogue says Ho-Oh is anticipating something happening.
>>26605605
Pretty sure every Pokemon says that, as when I recently played HG my Sunflora said the same.
>>26604746
Tbqh it's my 2nd least favorite now that it's obsolete. However I still love the region, music, and all the johto mons
Stealth Sinnohfetus thread
>>26605557
The original was super dear to me, to the point that between the release of the gen I remakes and HGSS I was one of those obnoxious posters you saw in internet forums all over the web clamoring for gen II to be remade and grasping at straws for any reference to Johto in newer games. Hell, i think I wanted remakes before remakes were even a thing, i liked the new pokemon and all but I sort of considered Johto to be my "home region" and didn't really like that I had to play a Hoenn game to use the new pokemon, and was super pissed at the lack of a time capsule between gen II and III. I still kinda wish that I could bring all new pokemon to johto somehow.
>>26605628
There's a similar generic reaction that all pokemon have, this one was slightly different, wish I could show you. Maybe it shows up elsewhere and I'm wrong.
>>26605673
Ho-Oh and Lugia do each have unique dialogue when you talk to them in Bell Tower and Whirl Islands respectively, but I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with the Kimono Girls summoning.
>>26605737
Uh. I guess I never really checked after capturing Ho-Oh.
>>26605673
>one of those obnoxious posters you saw in internet forums all over the web clamoring for gen II to be remade and grasping at straws for any reference to Johto in newer games
Damn, I remember that. There was even a big fan effort to create a GSC remake in FRLG graphics, it was called Pokemon Platinum funnily enough. I wonder how they took the news once the remake actually happened and they had put all that work in for nothing.
>>26599685
GOAT town design
terrible pokemon distribution and lack of trainers
>>26605958
Yeah, there was a pretty big fan project to remake pokemon gold with gen III graphics and pokemon. Can't remember the name right now, but it was quite active and popular. They even kept at it for a while after HGSS before realizing all their fans already got what they wanted. How the fuck do i not remember the name, i spent so much time in the forums of that thing.
>>26606063
Found a romhack that is similar if not wht I'm talking about, pokemon PureGold. Seriously, it was an amazing effort, looked just like you would have imagined a gen II remake of gold to look like.
>>26606063
There was one called Shiny Gold. And I think one called Liquid Crystal later but it was apparently a self-insert edge circlejerk.
>>26606130
Shiny Gold, yeah, that was the one.
>>26606063
>>26606106
>>26606130
To my knowledge the FRLG hacks were called ShinyGold and LiquidCrystal, and then there was a fan game that was originally called Platinum (until Platinum actually got announced), which then got renamed to Palladium, and then finally cancelled when HGSS got announced
>>26606148
ShinyGold was the one I was obsessed about. I spent way too much time watching youtube playthroughs of the thing, it was so well done, and at the time I thought that was the closest we'd ever get to seeing Johto remade.
>>26604771
XD!
>>26604940
They'd never rebuild it, it's a national landmark.
>>26605413
Johto ended up being how I imagined, personally. I think the grass and trees are perfect. A bit sleepier and more drab because it's a wetter Kanto. Never cared for Kris' randomly blue hair either. And GOldenrod's new music was way better to me. I guess I was just completely satisfied.
>>26605557
I do wish they pushed the Autumn more in Johto.
>>26606316
>>They'd never rebuild it, it's a national landmark.
They do talk about rebuilding it once you've beaten Red if you go back to Ecruteak.
>>26605958
I mean, Pokemon Liquid Crystal is exactly that, but with better sprites. Though I never got far with the story so >>26606130 is a shame.
>>26606341
Really? That's fukkin weird.
>>26606316
>And GOldenrod's new music was way better to me
not belittling your opinion or anything but you are honestly the only person I've ever known to hold that opinion. The Goldenrod music and the inability to customize your room are widely considered to be the only things HGSS really does worse than GSC
>>26605413
>>26606316
The only thing that bothered me were the trees. I was expecting something more like the pines from Platinum to be used. Also night time has never looked as comfy as it did with the Gen II palette, so that was also a bit of a letdown. I was okay with pretty much everything else though.
>>26606360
Oh dear, the room. i spent so much time decorating it in Gold, and somehow I didn't care for the lack of that feature in HGSS. I wonder if I got all the decorations, I swear there were a shitload of them, played Gold for years and I don't think I ever stopped getting calls from Mom telling me she had bought new dolls. But I'm not into that stuff as much anymore, I also got super obsessed about my secret base in ruby and emerald and I couldn't car less for it in AS.
Johto was the absolute worst in the anime.
>>26604746
I respect your opinion, but it still feels weird to see someone say that.
I remember when gold and silver came out and being blown away.
Probably my favorite gen, probably just because nostalgia.
>>26606360
Oh, I know that. I do notice that I'm the only person who finds it to be an improvement. I actually distinctly remember not liking Goldenrod's music in Crystal as a kid and it being one of the towns where I'd gladly turn on the bike and not hear it.
>>26599685
Silver was the comfiest game by far.
I love all gens, yes even 6 but Johto has such a nice aesthetic and feels so cozy and it all flows so nicely together.
>>26606424
Agreed. Though Silver Conference kinda looked like it was gonna put the anime out of its misery and end with an epic final confrontation betwen Ash and Gary and Ash finally becoming champion.
Then it was fucking nothing and the series solidified its zombification with Hoenn.
>>26606471
kek, but the bike music is just the goldenrod music sped up
>>26606360
>>26606471
>tfw never played with the sound on so know next to nothing about the music
>>26599685
I personally hated the layout to Johto. I felt the progression was annoying and slow. I love the pokemon from Gen 2, but always disliked how to really enjoy all of Johto I had to beat Kanto before I could feel like I wasnt struggling.
>>26606494
Holy shit.
I keep forgetting but whenever I remember this it keeps taking me by surprise.
Ironically I also like that HGSS Goldenrod is sped up
>>26600452
Im in the same boat. I hated that every time, after fighting every trainer and any number of wild pokemon I was still always painfully underleveled by the time I reached Claire and if I wasnt stacking tons of ice moves, I was pretty much going to lose. Johto is a great place but their is just nothing memorable in it. The ONLY reason anyone actually liked Johto is because it had Kanto connected to it. If Johto had been built as a solo region, it would be considered one of the worsts.
>>26606571
If Johto was a solo region it would have had more places added. Also, I dont care much about Kanto but Johto is still in my top 2 for best regions.
Also, Goldenrod, Ecruteak, National Park, Lake of Rage and Pokeathelon Done are all good examples of memorable places.
>>26606424
I enjoyed its filler hell
>>26606571
I disagree, I think Johto has plenty to enjoy in and of itself. Ecruteak and Blackthorn are my two favorite pokemon cities still. And if Johto had been a solo region the whole league segment would have been replaced with more Johto stuff.
>>26606471
But the bike music is just the original Goldenrod music being faster
>>26606645
I'm hoping we revisit Johto and we get a Johto League built into the side of Mt Silver.
>>26606571
>nothing memorable in it
This strikes me as the opinion of someone who didn't play the games when they originally released, back in Gen 2 when we hadn't experienced really exotic/varied regions, Johto had some mindblowingly memorable places. The towers were the shit (albeit optional), the National Park and Sudowoodo section is really memorable, Ice Path had the first Ice floor puzzles in any Pokemon game, Ruins Of Alph were mysterious as shit, Goldenrod was cool as hell with the Radio Tower and train station... I could go on.
>>26606603
But i dont find "it would have had" an acceptable excuse to why the region really didnt have much going for it. Goldenrod really is nothing more special then obligitory city with a big mart, Ecruteak city is pretty much Lavender town, the National Park ill give you credit, that was a cool idea having a bug garden, but LoR is nothing special and Pokeathelon Dome was made in the remakes, so while a cool side project, it doesnt mean shit in a conversation where we are speaking about the original game.
>>26599685
Johto, home of consistent Grade A pokegirl design.
>>26606702
>Ecruteak city is pretty much Lavender town
I don't understand how you came to this conclusion.
>>26606702
>Ecruteak city is pretty much Lavender town
What, because the music is slow? I don't know how you came to this conclusion at all
>>26606702
>Ecruteak is pretty much Lavender town
>Johto appreciation thread
>Autists can't help but come here and sound off on why they hate Johto
Okay, we get it. You are definitely not blinded by nostalgia like the rest of us. You have super great taste that falls in line with the rest of the cool kids on /vp/. Feel free to leave this thread to us nostalgia-ridden faggots any time now.
>>26606702
I thought we were talking the region itself, because I was including remake stuff. Lake of Rage is especially awesome for being a place that fills with rain every day, flooding the surrounding area. That's an awesome, unique to Johto thing.
How on earth is Ecruteak Lavender Town?
And like >>26606691 said, you have to look at it within the context of Johto at the time, not now. Which is why I was using HGSS Johto for my arguments, because it holds up really well in the context of now.
>>26606691
I think Ice Path is the best ice dungeon in the series to this day.
I think Ruins of Alph still have to be topped in sheer weirdness. I mean, mysterious inscriptions, a mystery radio frequency that plays an extremely creepy sound, the cryptic scientists studying it, the puzzles... no other mysterious location in the series compares, very other unown ruin has been a letdown in comparison. Only the underwater ruins in Unova come close, IMO.
I'm kinda pissed that Crystal promised to answer what the mystery behind them was but the closest we've gotten to that is the Arceus event in HGSS, which only raised more questions than it answered. But maybe it's a mystery that's better left unsolved.
>>26606779
Nah man, I'm a Johtotoddler but I'm really enjoying discussing Johto with the civil people who disagree. Conversations and debate is fun, when done right.
>>26606779
Seriously. /vp/ has the potential to become one of the comfiest boards on 4chan if people just didn't shitpost about things they hated in threads they don't belong in.
>>26606846
Yeah the thread hasn't been yet overrun with the usual /vp/ cancer, most people who don't like Johto have been civil. Then again we're discussing eight eighteen year old games, ten year old romhacks and six year old remakes, the underage have nothing for them here.
>>26599685
Yo, Johto is the tits, I always find myself replaying HG/SS just because of how damn comfy it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdqNzFd86vc
>>26606852
Please we all know that's not going to happen as long as the various fanbases can't take criticisms.
And that goes for all of them even the people in this thread.
>>26606941
>I always find myself replaying HG/SS
>tfw want a SS copy to replay but they are so fucking expensive
>>26606852
Honestly thats the main reason I hate /vp/ at the moment. For every decent post theres like 5 shit ones overshadowing it.
>>26606941
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO2w1_-J-D8
>>26606983
>tfw I lost my SS 3 fucking times but managed to snag one before they became hella rare.
Feel sorry for you, mate. By far the best Pokemon games feel wise.
>>26606941
>>26606990
I actually preferred the FRLG versions of a lot of the Johto songs. Is that just me?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm7HjS747mM
Also the Pinball version of Ecruteak
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBlWL4_LsnI
>>26606990
>That whiny nip ruining a decent remix
Kind of feels bittersweet, like being pressured into sex or something.
>>26606983
>>26607010
>tfw have both because friend gave me SS when he sold his DS
>tfw two Pokewalkers
>>26607026
For a lot of the tracks, I think that as well, but stuff like Azalea just sounds better with the ds's cleaner soundchip.
>>26607046
I think I have a second Pokewalker from one of my previous copies. Never used the things desu.
>>26607010
How'd you manage to lose it three times?
>>26607046
Lucky. I lost my pokewalker for years before finding it again earlier this year
>>26607026
In all honesty I think they lost a bit of their ambition when it came to DS
>>26607046
>have two Pokewalkers, one from importing HG, one from getting SS in English
>can't find either
>>26607083
Literally have no fucking idea, mate. It was like cursed or something. Took it on a lot of trips and used to be quite careless with my games so that's probably how. Holding this copy with a close guard now.
>>26599685
>>26604738
>>26606396
>>26606477
>>26606852
>>26606941
>comfy
Stop this meme already.
Can anything top the comfyness that was HGSS and Platinum? The winter and autumn seasons, the rural feel to it all.I want to go back to those halcyon days
>>26607010
>>read this
>>rush to see if i still have HeartGold
>>Open drawer, the box is there
>>open box
>>box is fucking empty
>>freak out
>>start opening every drawer in the the house
>>another heartgold box
>>remember my cousin left his empty box here ages ago
>>the second box has my copy inside it
Thank goodness.
>>26607130
Me too. I have a good vibe about the next gen for some reason, though, I hope it's good and comfy.
>>26607113
get comfy or get out anon
or are you here to preach about hoenn/unova or some shit? this a johto thread my nigga
>>26606915
Yeah, I feel Johto threads end up being the most civil. I kind of feel sorry for people who like Hoenn and Kalos right now, even if I dislike both myself.
>>26606941
This reminds me that Johto actually started the trend of unique Gyms for each leader, because a part of the gym would be a different colour depending on the type. Plus, each Gym had a different roof in Crystal. I just love how many subtle improvements started with this region. It doesnt get the credit for some too.
>>26606983
>>26607010
same
>>26607157
Gen 2 is objectively (used in the real way, not the meme way) the best Pokemon game. It essentially was just gen 1 except fixed and improved on.
All the later gens just kind of seem like reboots of each other imo, they keep removing features instead of improving them and it kind of makes the franchise seem to regress a few steps each gen.
>>26607198
Don't start this bullshit anon because you know that gen 2 had it's fair share of problems from gimping Kanto to removing the Safari Zone.
Just appreciate Pokemon games as they are rather than trying to stir shit up
>>26607198
>Gen 2 is objectively (used in the real way, not the meme way) the best Pokemon game
Aww come on anon, I mean I definitely think the Johto games are the best ones but calling them "objectively the best" just seems like an invitation for shitposters. I thought we were keeping things comfy?
Spreading the comfy with new thread music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W536p82eWc4
>>26607198
I'd only use the words "objectively best" on HGSS and BW2 myself.
But GSC was indeed a very great sequel. Did remove a couple Kanto locations like Viridian Forest though. Due to never playing a Kanto game, I didnt know about that forest until HGSS.
>>26607157
>tfw I'd like kalos a lot more if the pacing had stayed at the rate of gym 1-2-3.
I don't even remember the last 5 gyms. They were thrown at us so fast. Shame too; some of those routes could have been the comfiest shit
>>26607231
well gen 2 extends to HGSS IMO, and yeah BW2 is a contender but I still perfer HGSS myself.
The thing about HGSS that is both a great and a terrible feature is the safari zone. It's unique in the design and operation but it is stupid at the length of time needed for some pokemon to appear
>>26607228
Well, thats why I clarified what I meant by 'objectively'. I'm not really talking about personal favorites and more about in terms of features and what classes as a 'Pokemon game'
>>26607231
>Due to never playing a Kanto game, I didnt know about that forest until HGSS
I sure hope you've rectified that and played FRLG by now
>>26607232
Honestly I like Kalos as a region, its just everything in it feels so rushed and underused.
You want to stop and take everything in but the game is making you rush ahead to the next gym at all times.
>>26607263
>and more about in terms of features and what classes as a 'Pokemon game'
You do realise that differs between people right?
Some people may view those features as superficial and gimmicky while later games represent pokemon better.
By no means is Gen 2 "objectively" the best in that sense, hell not a single pokemon game is the best in that sense because they all are what Pokemon games should be.
>>26607198
Gen 2 has tons of flaws and like every generation didn't even carry over everything from the last, like the Safari Zone.
No Pokemon game is without flaws and each has their own attributes some people may appreciate more than others for different reasons. It's all a matter of viewpoints.
>>26607304
Yeah obviously people are going to disagree with me but what I meant is:
Gen 2 didn't remove any key features for no good reason, all it did was improve on what RBY did best and ironed out it's flaws to the point where it almost made RBY redundant. Imagine what the game would be right now if game freak didn't remove features like walking with Pokemon and the PWT each gen?
>>26607248
Yeah, I'm one of those people who sort of blurs the line between Crystal and HGSS when talking about Gen 2. Like, If I'm talking "what Gen 2 had" it's different from "what Gen 2 introduced"
>>26607265
Playing it right now. It's the last pokemon game/region for me to play too. But I'm slow going due to having a lot of stuff playing right now. Also wanna finish Minish Cap and Donkey Kong Country 3 and 3D.
>>26607282
The whole section after the first gym is pretty good though.
>lumiose to meet prof, see a big city, get a 2nd starter
>parfum palace, daycare, berry farm, and that rich castle
>fossil town, rhydon route to the cave with tyrunt or Amaura
>itemfinder on the beach (imo one of the best parts)
>then the 2nd gym
imaging if we had kept that pace
>>26607353
>Gen 2 didn't remove any key features for no good reason
Safari Zone and most of Kanto.
>>26607335
I mean yeah sure but if you count HGSS as gen 2 you do have a safari zone and most of kanto.
I'm not saying gen 2 has the best features. I'm talking more about what it did to the franchise, it was the definitive Pokemon game at the time, for the most part everything from gen 1 you needed was there. Nowerdays if I want the battle frontier, for instance or walking with pokemon, I have to crack open my GBA/DS and play an older game.
>>26607391
>For no good reason
You can't call GB restraints no good reason, if you're counting HGSS as gen 2 I think the whole of Kanto is there.
So what did you guys think of the Pokegear?
I think it's criminally underrated when compared to the Poketch, PokeNav Plus and...whatever Gen 6 had. The PSS?
>>26607488
I think the Emerald Pokenav was better, but otherwise it's the best device so far. I liked that you unlocked features as you progressed through the story.
>>26607414
HG/SS is a gen 4 remake of a gen 2 game, they aren't gen 2 by any stretch of the imagination.
Also if you're going to call GBA limitations a good reason you have to consider the reasons why other features didn't make it across.
For example the complete rehaul in gen 3 as well as the slew of additional content.
Giving each and every Pokemon animations in Gen 5 as well as setting up the Global Link and Dreamworld.
And finally the models in gen 6 they had to create from scratch.You've got me on 4 though.
Taking all of these into account there's very good reasons for the removals across the generations.
>>26607517
GB*
>>26607514
Pokenav Plus in ORAS was better, but I didnt find the Emerald one better. Never liked how there was never any indication as to when people wanted to battle you, and it was annoying tying the Ribbons to it as well.
>>26607231
Yeah the viridian forest removal was weird. The weirdest part was that npcs refer to the forest as if it still existed, which makes me think that the weird stone path thingies with berry tress in GSC was meant to be the forest but couldn't be fully fledged out due to technical limitations. The full forest is present in HGSS.
>>26607555
>Never liked how there was never any indication as to when people wanted to battle you
Trainers that wanted to rebattle you would have a little Pokeball icon next to their name anon.
Ribbons were also shown on the summary menu.
The more you know.
>>26607404
Not really. I love Johto and GSC/HGSS, but in the original GSC, all of Kanto's dungeons were gutted except motherfucking Rock Tunnel of all dungeons. Not to mention the adventure itself of Kanto isn't there. If I wanted either of those, I still had to break out RBY, which I did on many occasions. And no, remakes aren't part of their original generations.
Every game has its own reasons to play it, even the remakes have little differences that give reason to go back to the originals instead if you want. And that's fine. If it were just yearly updates on the last one, the series would be no better than a yearly sports game.
>>26607488
I like it, but the Emerald and ORAS versions of the PokeNav had more functionality to them. PSS and Amie are cool too. The Poketch I was never crazy about, nor the C-Gear.
Also I much prefer the GSC design for it to the HGSS one. I always wanted an actual one back when.
>>26607575
They're small trees, not "stone path thingies"
>>26607584
>all of Kanto's dungeons were gutted except motherfucking Rock Tunne
Diglet cave still existed though right?
Nobody happens to have the cute heracross pic where he's wearing a choice scarf/a scarf do they?
I've got a copy saved but its been lost in my 1000s of pics in like 64 different folders
>>26607608
I forget about it a lot. Yes, it too.
>>26607608
Yes it did.
There was so much crazy speculation about cerulean cave among kids back then, all kinds of crazy rumors about how there was this hiker somewhere that could get you into the rare Dungeon in GSC if you did some weird specific thing. It was bigger than the mew under the truck rumors in gen I.
>>26607608
Yeah, Diglet cave was a big part cause that was the only way to get to Pallet/Viridian/Pewter initially IIRC
>>26607601
Also they sort of make up the same rough layout as Viridian Forest, just obviously scaled down so not completely accurate.
>>26607638
Yeah, as you can't go to Mt. Moon by going left from cerulean as there is an un-climbable ledge.
>>26607624
>tfw hackers now mean you don't get random crazy speculations about places
>>26607517
Ok, if HG/SS aren't considered gen 2 then I retract my statement and say HG/SS is objectively the best. It really does not make much of a difference considering they are basically the same, just improved.
Also, how are GBA limitations an excuse for not adding features like day/night cycles and (before emerald) battle animations? I'm not asking them to add the entirety of Kanto/Johto but they did remove one of gen 2's largest selling points. Also gen 5 has no excuse for not implementing walking with Pokemon as overworld sprites for almost every gen 5 pokemon WERE implemented for the global link.
Gen 6 maybe gets a free pass but gen 7 sure as hell won't.
>>26607601
>>26607642
Holy shit, my mind blown. All these year and I didn't realize those were small trees in the same layout as viridian forest. Guess it was never gone.
>>26607669
>>Kalospowerplant.jpg
Hackers took months to crack gen VIs code, there was plenty of crazy speculation about kalos, with all the mysterious locked doors, creepy unexplained ghosts and abandoned secret messages.
>>26607701
I never got it until now
And you have a point with the kalos speculation
>tfw alto mare isn't an in-game town
>>26607579
I know but I mean, I had to go and check if they wanted to battle me. I was a noob at first and so I didnt even know trainer rematches existed in Hoenn.
>>26607575
I mean, it's technically still a forest? The layout was there I think. It was just not called one. I can forgive that though as HGSS made Viridian Forest one of the best in the whole franchise.
>>26607584
Half of the Poketch apps felt useless. And because it was meant to mimic a digital watch, had pretty meh aesthetics too.
and I'm not sure if Amie counts in what we're talking about.
Gen 2 felt like the last time that GF really gave a shit
>>26607772
>it's technically still a forest? The layout was there I think.
I wouldn't call it one simply because you can't encounter any pokemon there
>>26607772
Half of the poketch were a bit useless, the counter app, the party happiness app, the step counter app and the berry app I think were about the only ones I ever used
>>26607791
They definitely gave a shit about gen III, as much as I like gen II, gen III is the technical foundation for today's pokemon and there was clearly a massive art and programming effort going into it, marred by a few missteps. I do feel they've kinda been winging it since gen IV, though.
>>26607791
I think they give a shit for all the games. They just have different focuses every generation.
>>26607830
Tajiri hasn't directed a game since Emerald so it's not surprising to see a shift in things after that
>>26607791
Black 2 is widely the last "we had passion in this project" game for most people
>>26607793
True, but that doesnt stop it from being one, just one useful from a Pokemon sense
>>26607791
To me, it was Gen 4. Gen 2 - Gen 3 felt like when they tried the hardest
>>26607684
>Also, how are GBA limitations an excuse for not adding features like day/night cycles and (before emerald) battle animations?
Because they literally rehauled the entire game anon, from scratch.
New code.
New mechanics.
New overworld graphics.
New everything.
You can't expect a change on that level to have everything from the previous game anon. Be realistic here, something had to give and luckily it was the stuff that wasn't that important.
>Also gen 5 has no excuse for not implementing walking with Pokemon as overworld sprites for almost every gen 5 pokemon WERE implemented for the global link
You do realise they would have to dedicate a larger amount of time from the writing team to write those phrases and actions as well as expand upon them from the previous game, right?
That would have taken away from the story of Black and White.
You can't just accept one reason as legitimate and denounce the others because they aren't the same.
I agree with Gen 7 though especially since it's had just over two years of dev time but we'll have to wait and see.
>>26607866
You see, I thought that too, but then there was no fucking battle frontier in ORAS.
>>26607881
I think BW2 are good for much of the same reason HGSS are, they complete a generation that was quite good but flawed and fix most if not all of its problems. I honestly feel that every gen should have sequel games that add what fans want and expand a bit on the mythology. or maybe they could add DLC to pokemon, at this point I wouldn't even be mad.
Daily reminder that Crystal's Battle Tower is the hardest challenge in any game to date
Seriously, 100 floors of pure Blissey, Dragnonites, and Tyranitars
>>26607983
Crystal was so gimped in the west, it almost shouldn't have been released. It had a ton of japanese mobile phone specific shit, like the goldenrod communications center and the gs ball, additional battle tower challenges and other stuff I can't think of right now. But seriously, a major selling point of crystal was the mobile phone thing which was completely removed from the western releases.
>>26607684
>objectively the best
You can be subjective about things, anon. Christ.
You do realize they do it on purpose, right?
They made games like Platinum, HGSS, B2W2 be better than the others because they wanted to. If all of the games were as good they'd need to make the next games better and better, instead they can go from decent to good and then back to decent and so on. This is the main reason you don't like games like XY or ORAS as much as the older games. While there is some truth in the "they had to build it from scratch" it's not that big of a deal for one of the best selling videogame series. It's the same logic behind third versions.
>>26607952
But they obviously added a ton of other shit, so what's the problem? Missing a feature like the battle frontier isn't that big anon, even though I was super sad about it. How can you look at a game like that and say "nah, no effort fucking put into that shit."
>>26607983
>Daily reminder that Crystal's Battle Tower is the hardest challenge in any game to date
That's because it was glitchy as shit
>>26608071
But why not do that, it literally makes no sense not to try and one up yourself each game.
>>26607952
Their focus last gen was making the games more accessible, particularly competitive. Battle Frontier has no part in either of those.
>>26608012
It's the least played game
>>26604738
Oh man pokemon pinball... one of the only spinoffs I ever bought. It was during the height of pokemania
>>26608071
What are you even talking about?
>>26608098
Maybe they want to put as little effort as they can, or maybe they fear trying out new stuff might be potentially dangerous, making the series feel less solid or something. They kind of took the risk with BW though, I guess. Maybe because the DS was popular enough.
>>26608137
Read the posts above it.
>>26607952
Every region needs a sequel eventually. No more remakes.
i still have my hg copy and i'd love to replay but i can't bring myself to delete that spiky eared pichu...
>>26608180
I'd kind of expect them to do that after gen4 remakes. B3W3 and then something new in Kalos, Alola/Kanto, Johto, Hoenn and Sinnoh.i was hoping for ORAS to be sequels
>>26608195
fuck, I wouldnt.
>>26608161
>Read the posts above it.
I did, you're not making much sense.
>>26608106
Yeah, but competitive is never going to be truly accessible until IVs are gone. Waste of effort.
>>26608197
I was hoping for ORAS to be sequels too actually. Which makes me extra disappointed in the games.
And I'm hoping we get them instead of Gen 4 remakes. But after Gen 6 I dont have that much faith in Gamefreak desu
>>26604160
one of my favorite parts of HGSS, my man!
>>26608234
>And I'm hoping we get them instead of Gen 4 remakes.
Heh, at this point I doubt it because of muh patterns, but I'd actually expect B3W3
>But after Gen 6 I dont have that much faith in Gamefreak
You'll regain it with Sun and Moon, then lose it again with the NX and then regain it once again with whatever comes next.
>>26608222
How does it not make sense?
>>26608292
>How does it not make sense?
Well for starters you're saying that certain games are better than the others like it's an objective fact when that's far from the truth.
Then you're saying that starting from scratch wouldn't have a large impact because it's a large franchise, these two things don't have any connection to each other.
Even a Mario game that started from scratch would lose some features because of it and it's a simpler game.
Basically you're trying to find connections where there are none to try and find a point.
>>26607217
>>26607228
>>26607231
>>26607335
Not that anon but if he means objectively used in the right way then he's mostly correct. No other gen has done what Gen 2 did with the huge number of additions, improvements and other stuff plot wise and gameplay related. You could argue Gen 1 had a lot of things that could have been improved so it wasn't that hard to come up with but you're forgetting we're in the 6th gen and it's hardly changed from gen 2-3. I agree the games weren't perfect, no game is. But overall Gen 2 is special for this and people that grew up with later games (Post gen 3) won't understand it because those games already have what Gen 2 brought to the table.
>>26608390
That's not what objectively means, also if you want to be technical Gen 3 introduced the most changes and additions to the game.
>>26608375
>Well for starters you're saying that certain games are better than the others like it's an objective fact when that's far from the truth.
Not necessarily better, but they do introduce and take back some features like that.
>Then you're saying that starting from scratch wouldn't have a large impact because it's a large franchise, these two things don't have any connection to each other.
The correlation is money.
>Even a Mario game that started from scratch would lose some features because of it
I didn't say starting from scratch isn't part of it. It's just that it's a little part of the deal.
>it's a simpler game.
Not necessarily.
This has been my lock screen for quite a few months now
>>26608427
>The correlation is money.
Money has nothing to do with it at all. There are franchises and companies bigger than Pokemon and Gamefreak that have produced absolute incomplete schlock while there are indie games that are masterpieces yet were funded by the people via kickstarter.
>I didn't say starting from scratch isn't part of it. It's just that it's a little part of the deal.
>little part
Okay consider the fact that the only asset they share are the pokemon designs, not even the sprites within the game. Well, they did recreate gen 2 sprites but that still took a degree of time.
You can't expect everything to go through anon, this is reality.
>Not necessarily
You are paying attention right?
>>26608415
>Gen 3 introduced the most changes and additions to the game
That can't be right. Abilities, natures, weather in overworld and?
>>26608292
I am cautiously very optimistic for Sun Moon, yes. I;d love a BW3 but I dont think they'd go to Unova a third time without going to another region a second time.
>>26608434
Best starting town
>posting disgusting remake screens
>>26608560
Goldenrod had such great music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSghsw9n_1I
>>26608560
GSC look nice, but it's nice having every region in 3D, and Johto fairs very well when compared to the others.
>>26608499
>Money has nothing to do with it at all.
It does. It's also the reason this issue exists in the first place.
>There are franchises and companies bigger than Pokemon and Gamefreak that have produced absolute incomplete schlock while there are indie games that are masterpieces yet were funded by the people via kickstarter.
I'm sure they were in a different situation. This is just how Game Freak/TPC/Nintendo want it to work.
>You can't expect everything to go through anon, this is reality.
I know. I'm just saying it's not as big as you make it out to be.
I guess it also depends on what feature (and which game) you specifically talk about though. Some is definitely going to take more time or more money than something else. They could have easily had Pokémon following you in BW, but not really for XY as they would have had to recreate all of the overworld models. But then there's also stuff like easy/hard mode, which they could keep and even expand a little with each game if they wanted.
>You are paying attention right?
What?
>>26608292
>>26608537
>BW3
>not BW0Prequel in alternate timeline ancient Unova that happens to be very similar to modern Unova where you are one of the two siblings featuring Absolute Zero Kyurem
>>26608532
How could you forget the obvious Gen 3 stuff like contests, secret bases and dive?
Gen II was originally intended to be the last. I think they made gen III because they had a much more grandiose vision for gen II but they were frustrated by hardware limitations(Reportedly, Satoru Iwata himself had to sit down and dive into the game code himself, deleting some content and miraculously fitting the rest into the cart).
I think the reason HGSS is so widely liked is because it was always intended to be the magnum opus of the franchise, once they figured how to make Pokemon games without the technological limitations of the past, they revisited Gen II and made it closer to what was originally intended.
>>26608675
>Gen II was originally intended to be the last
>still taking this quote out of context
>>26608634
Gen II radio tower looks better tbqh.A bit cyberpunk, creepy and ominous. Much more fitting for what ends up being the final team rocket lair.
>>26608674
The first two actually mattered only up to Platinum, and it's sad they didn't get them to be online. Then they just took them away for no reason.
>>26608698
I dunno. I do get what you mean but my only wish was that the HGSS one was taller. Another reason I wish HGSS were Gen 5, that Gen was a lot more vertically oriented than the others.
>>26608671
>alternate timeline
I dont want things to get confusing. We already have the annoyingly popular "Gen 6 is a different universe" stuff.
>>26608674
I dont mind the games losing features as much as the next guy, because it does help make each region feel more distinct.
But there's a limit to it, and Secret Bases and Customization should have been that limit. Those two should have been back in every future game, remake or not.
>>26608634
>not pink brick roads
>building roofs are completely changed so they're not even yellow
>radio tower looks nothing like the OG one
>the rail goes overhead, instead of you being able to walk on it
>the buildings are all much more uniformly positioned than in the original, where they all seemed a little bit haphazardly scattered around
For the record, although I love HG/SS, this is what I meant in>>26605413. I always appreciate an old favorite location being brought into modern graphics but there were some parts of HG/SS where I felt like the visual changes fucked with my nostalgia too much. Like, I get that HG/SS Goldenrod is objectively better in terms of visual design and how the colors match up and whatnot, but it's not strictly the same Goldenrod I remember from my childhood.
Also like I said before but I'll keep pushing it, it bugged me that they changed the trees in Ilex and the National Park from the dank bulbous Zelda-esque trees in pic related to just be generic pines.
>>26608760
>>Gen 6 is a different universe
But of course it is, the one created by Arceus in the Shinjo ruins to give Ethan/Hila a legendary! Can't you see it?
>>26600524
I personally prefer the Sinnoh starters, but Johto had undeniably the best legendaries
>>26608826
Both only have 1 good starter (Chikorita and Piplup), both have good legendaries.
>>26608659
>It does. It's also the reason this issue exists in the first place.
If you're referring to them gimping the game in order for the next one to sell well or whatever you said along those lines, that's only cutting into their profits more while losing more buyers.
It doesn't make sense in the slightest and it still uses your own personal notions as to what's good and what isn't.
>I'm sure they were in a different situation. This is just how Game Freak/TPC/Nintendo want it to work.
See above.
>I'm just saying it's not as big as you make it out to be.
You aren't getting it, they are making it from nigh scratch. They didn't reuse any assets like they did with gen 1 to 2. It was all entirely new.
That's going to cut take up a lot of development time so something has to give. It's not something they chose to do, it's something they had to do.
> They could have easily had Pokémon following you in BW
If I remember right they didn't finish all of the sprites for the gen 5 pokemon, which is why they weren't available using the Dreamworld until Black and White 2. And again there were other things they had to handle that were of more importance like the dreamworld and global link.
Adding a small feature in HG/SS was fine and easy because it was a remake everything was already there and they didn't have to change much.
It's not the same for Black and White.
>But then there's also stuff like easy/hard mode, which they could keep and even expand a little with each game if they wanted.
Difficulty modes would require different AI that incorporates the new moves and Pokemon, it would have been harder to implement than following pokemon.
I don't think you know much about game development.
>>26604869
He couldve at least gotten a spearow
>>26607232
I'm plsying white right now and every town was a new gym, the pacing between the first 2 gyms in Kalos was glorious, then after 3rd gym it went to shit
>>26599685
>comfiest region
That's not Kalos. Johto doesn't have anything on Laverre, Dendemille, or Snowbelle.
I'll give you Azalea and Ecruteak, though.
>>26608799
>the rail goes overhead, instead of you being able to walk on it
That's because they added the rail cutting across the entire region
>>26608826
I loved, love the Johto legendaries and thought like you do for many years, but nowadays i think that Kanto had the best legendaries. Well, the best legendary, Mewtwo, the birds aren't that different from later legendaries and only get points for originality. But the Mewtwo journals in the burned mansion are still the best setup for any legendary yet, IMO, and no other game has come even close to it. They're optional content, scattered notes that mention Mewtwo, yet you never met Mewtwo in Cinnabar nor do you need to read the journals to catch it. It's not forced. And yet seeing Mewtwo in the cerulean cave after reading the journals was chilling. And leaves you wondering exactly what the hell happened in the lab and how Mewtwo ended up in the cave and what happened to Mew. And they kept being referenced later, there is another journal entry in faraway island in Emerald.
Arceus is the only legendary that has a similar amount of setup in its game but being an event legendary with its item never being released, plus its over the top nature detracts from it.
>>26608799
I get that. Though I dont get not liking the overhead railings so much more, felt much more dynamic. And like I alluded to earlier, I appreciate any sort of elevation carried across in these games. Just as a personal thing. Makes the world feel more real to me when it's less flat. It's why Pinwheel Forest and Viridian Forest are my favourites.
>>26608891
I dunno, Ecruteak, Safari Zone Gate and Alazea give those a good run for thier money. I think Safari Zone Gate is one of the most underrated places in the franchise in terms of relaxing feelings.
>right by a waterfall
>nestled deep in a mountain
>bunch of people exchanging their wares with each other
>dat music
>>26608925
>entire region
nah, otherwise it would have been visible in Route 30 too, not to mention Kanto - in fact, the rail isn't visible AT ALL in Kanto, there isn't even a rail coming out of the Saffron train station itself.
But I'm just nitpicking, don't mind me
>>26608855
>it still uses your own personal notions as to what's good and what isn't.
It doesn't. It's about what they add and then don't add back or remove.
>If you're referring to them gimping the game in order for the next one to sell well or whatever you said along those lines, that's only cutting into their profits more while losing more buyers.
People who care about these details buy them regardless.
>They didn't reuse any assets like they did with gen 1 to 2. It was all entirely new.
That was not the case from gen4 to gen5, and you can't actually be that sure about gen3 to gen4 and gen5 to gen6. They probably remade most of it from scratch, but they might have recycled some stuff as well. It is possible. This actually also goes for the rest of what you said.
>And again there were other things they had to handle that were of more importance like the dreamworld and global link.
It wouldn't have taken anything away.
>Adding a small feature in HG/SS was fine and easy because it was a remake everything was already there and they didn't have to change much.
Nah, it being a remake doesn't actually matter.
I'm tired of this conversation anyway.
>>26609021
it's a Subway by the time it gets to Kanto.
>>26608927
>Well, the best legendary, Mewtwo
>not Mew
The only good Mewtwo is MegaMewtwo Y
>>26608826
Johto did it right by making the cover legendaries not major plot points. They felt like something you were really lucky and chanced into.
>>26609038
It is?
Huh. Don't remember that. I guess it makes sense though.
>>26608891
>Laverre, Dendemille, or Snowbelle
Meh, if we're talking about locations in general, I only really liked the western half of Route 16.
>>26609027
>I'm tired of this conversation anyway.
That's because you have no real points that don't rely on your own opinions
I mean look here.
>Nah, it being a remake doesn't actually matter.
It's a remake that barely changed and reused a lot of assets from DPPt how can you say that didn't shorten the development time?
The rest of your post is just pure speculation and disinformation too
>>26609046
Mew and Mewtwo's stories are intertwined. Mew hasn't really had much of a story presence in the games besides faraway island, which is just further expansion on the cinnabar journals.
>>26609109
>> reused a lot of assets from DPPt
Why are Nintendo games that reuse assets always the best? See HGSS, BW2, Majora's Mask, SM64DS.
>>26608891
Eh. The only part of Kalos I really liked were Cyllage, the park in Route 14, and Route 16.
It was okay though.
>>26609153
Don't have to worry about pretty graphics, just design.
Pretty sure 64DS was done from the ground up, though.
>>26609109
>That's because you have no real points that don't rely on your own opinions
I knew you would say that.
>The rest of your post is just pure speculation and disinformation too
So is yours. We can't actually see the source and they might have tried to reuse some stuff where they could. This guess is just as good as yours.
>barely changed
Barely changed what? From the original? What's your point here even supposed to be?
>reused a lot of assets from DPPt
And so did gen5.
>how can you say that didn't shorten the development time?
I didn't.
>>26599685
Back to comfy stuff. Less bickering.
>>26609109
>>26609189
Can I say that I have not been paying attention to this at all but you two seem pretty civil and are keeping the thread bumped so good on you both
>>26609225
>chikorita with ethan's hat
cute!
Everytime I replay through GSC (about once a month) I have to play with the music off because otherwise I get all nostalgic
wat do
>>26609262
>I have to play with the music off because otherwise I get all nostalgic
wat
bask in the nostalgia, don't avoid it
>>26599685
Lets not forget the comfiest songs from these games.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XjouKSkSeM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G4j79Lifm8
Might fetch more.
>>26609273
no
it makes me sad because I'll never play GSC for the first time as a kid again
>>26608879
Looking at the gym leader's pokemon levels makes it even clearer
Highest pokemon level
Viola: 12
Grant: 25, 13 since previous gym
Korrina: 32, 7 since previous gym
Ramos: 34, 2 since previous gym
Clemont: 37, 3 since previous gym
Valerie: 42, 5 since previous gym
Olympia: 48, 6 since previous gym
Wulfric: 59, 11 since previous gym (Team Flare was inbetween)
See the issue?
>>26609262
>once a month
Nigga you've gone full NEET
dumping beta content because its comfy even though everybody has probably seen it all a billion times
>>26609189
>I knew you would say that.
Well I can't not bring it up if it's the only thing that's holding your argument together.
>So is yours. We can't actually see the source and they might have tried to reuse some stuff where they could.
Not really because we have several interviews, incompatibility and the various changes made to the game to rely on to prove that they started from scratch when it came to gen 3.
As for Black and White for starters the Global Link was a new area for them just like models and 3D was for X and Y.
>Barely changed what? From the original?
The general design of the region as well as the plot anon keep up, the underlying elements and assets were still there from the development of the originals. They had something to go on instead of going entirely from scratch, it's common sense that it would shorten the development time of the overall game.
>And so did gen5
Not really, there was quite a large graphical change between gen 4 and 5, it's the main reason why people are kind of peeved with the way S&M battles are right now because they show no change at all.
>I didn't.
You did when you said this
>Nah, it being a remake doesn't actually matter.
They didn't have to assign much effort to certain areas during because the outline for the game was already there and they didn't have to worry about creating a new region or pokemon in comparison to Black and White which is why we could have these luxuries like following pokemon and what not.
>>26609208
I might head off and get some sleep in a bit to be honest anon but at least I did my part in keeping the thread alive.
>>26609284
National Park is so god tier in both games.
>>26609458
Some times I imagine what the game would have been like if it stayed like this and didn't incorporate Kanto.
>>26609491
Beta Ecruteak had a train line running through it. I can't help but wonder what their original map design for Johto looked like if it was all properly pieced together
>>26609473
Which town is this supposed to be?
>>26609509
forgot the pic, kek
Johto caves were top tier.
>Union Cave you could go back after getting surf to explore some more
>Whirl Islands with the 4 entrances
>no casuals allowed Mt. Mortar
>>26609458
>>26609473
10/10 stuff
>>26609512
can't say for sure, it might not be any of them! if I had to guess, I'd put it on the corner of the map where Ilex and Azalea are in the final version of the game. It's an open book though, some of the beta maps clearly match up to in-game locations and some of them appear to be completely cut areas
>>26609521
The lack of deep dungeons and puzzles is one of things that disappoint me about newer generations. I want that feeling of exploration again.
>>26609537
beta marrill
>>26609509
It would be cool if they kept the rail going through the whole region. It was probably too hard to do or too limiting on design.
>>26609521
Johto feels like the Cave region. Other regions have more caves, but in their cases a lot of them are single roomed for Legendaries only or something.
