It is so obvious that newer games have suffered because of the switch to 3D models. Game Freak clearly don't have the staff competent enough to handle it.
And I don't blame them, they have to fit in other 700 unique models, a number that increases with each passing generation.
But there is nothing to gain, the gameplay simply suffers. The lack of content in XY/ORAS can be directly attributed to focusing too much attention to 3D modeling.
Bring back sprites.
Valid points, though I'd be a hypocrite if I were to neglect how much better some of my favorite pokemon look in 3d rather than sprites. Umbreon, espeon, charizard, swampert, feraligatr, mightyena. Sometimes I'll let the battle slide a bit just to check animations and enjoy their 3D perspective.
>>26524939
nice beta screenshot, faggot
>>26524939
>I want a flat world
Why?
Or....it could be to this being their first jump to 3D and they had a rough time adjusting. Doesn't excuse the laziness of the lack of post game content though.
Every gen beyond this will/should be much smoother sailing since all they have to do now is add on pokemon instead of remodeling 721+ pokemon from scratch again
So you just forgot how S/M is making the world look organic now. Do you need a tag to remember your name, too?
>>26524960
>I don't want glorious sprite artwork
Why?
>>26524972
sprites stretch in the overworld
gen 5 looked like ass from all the pixelation
>>26524975
This
>>26524972
This pic reminds me. I wish they'd bring season back and make them change every 2 or 3 days/week instead of a month.
Oh goodie, another nostalgia faggot pining for sprites.
>>26524975
Gen 5 looked like ass because they tried to push the games into 3D while keeping sprites. Gen 3 still looks beautiful
>>26524972
It is a shame spritework is dying, Pokémon seemed to be the last mainstream game that used sprites too.
At least Vanillaware is still going.
I don't like how they've transitioned from the sprite artwork that feels grid-based to what looks like it should be completely free movement but still fucking locks you to grid-squares giving you really jerky, shitty feeling movement where you tend to overshoot what you were aiming for.
>>26524972
> I don't think models can be just as artistic
>>26524999
I Must give GF some props since they're improving. fORAS movement feel more "fluid" When walking/running compared to XY
>>26524999
Maybe the overworld being more natural will fix that.
>>26525015
I had no issues with Omega Ruby but I'm trying to play Y right now and it's infuriating.
>>26525009
Why does everything have to be 3D, though?
There are a shitload of 3D games out there you can enjoy, in fact they're by and far the majority nowadays.
>>26524939
>700 unique models, a number that increases with each passing generation.
and you faggots are the ones to blame for that with your constant whining, manchildren won't even understand 30-40 well done pokemon are better than 120 shitty ones. Pokedex past 300-400 mons was a mistake.
>>26525009
They can but not by Game Freak
>>26525036
Speculation but i think major games are forced to have 3d models by guidelines or something, i don't have any other explanation why like every single big enough game is in 3D even when this is completely unnecessary.
>THIS thread again
Oh boy. How fun.
>>26525042
I need to catch more pokemon, I don't care if they're ice cream cones I need MORE NEW POKEMON FOR NEW REGIONS.
but really you're pointing the finger at the wrong crowd, blame the nips for having absolutely non-existent taste in pokemon, fucking casuals.
>>26525074
I know.
How dare people like what I don't like?
>>26525065
3D models are cheaper.
You do the model ONE TIME, rig it and you have infinite animations.
With sprites, you have to do frames for each animation (in a perfect world, a sprite for each frame, but lazy devs use rotations and shit).
It's not guidelines, it's not for artistic choices, it's not because it looks better (it doesn't). Devs use 3D because it's cheaper.
Also, expect to have the XY models from now on, until they become so obviiously outdated that they have to change them.
Pokémon Battle Revolution had FUCKING STADIUM MODELS.
>>26525093
Finally someone understands it
>>26525079
people liking different things has nothing to do with it, people getting their facts obviously wrong is the problem here. Need I remind everyone that the Pokemon models used in Gen 6 were already modelled by the time of Pokedex 3D Pro's release? And that it was created by Creatures under supervision of the Pokemon Company, not Game Freak?
Development of Pokemon is a complex process because of the amount of companies and dev teams it goes through before reaching anything resembling the final process. Gen 6 didn't suck because the 3D held back the developers, it sucked because their priorities were in a different place, and /vp/ autists weren't in their target audience this time around. It sucked because of deadlines. It sucked because they tried some different things that didn't necessarily stick. There are dozens of potential reasons why it didn't turn out how we wanted but people saying that asset creation held back the developers are just straight-up scapegoating the gens problems onto something that is barely related
>>26525036
To tell the truth, the only thing 3D has improved is the environments. 3D is good at making worlds. Everything else, though, is pretty much the same, except for how the game is designed. RPGs were affected by this the least because RPGs already had big worlds, but 3D only enhanced it by making the landscape more organic. Models should not prevent the characters themselves from looking good. I've seen what good modeling can do in that case. I will agree that the models done for pokemon are not the best I've ever seen, and that's probably not going to change any time soon. Most of them are fine, though. Only a few of them feel like they should've been different. I wish the money could be thrown around to see what someone that is GOOD at modeling would've done. Although, I will also say that it took Gamefreak far too long to not make the overworld a bland mess in itself. I will also agree that in X/Y, it hasn't been perfected yet, but they were at least trying. S/M is already appearing to fix that matter, but only time will tell if they actually did.
Basically, your complaints are not for 3D, they're that Gamefreak is incompetent at 3D. I agree that many people could do a far better job, but there's no way we're going to see that now.
>>26524972
>Glorious sprite artwork
>The only sprites there are the characters
You're not that bright, are you?
>>26524939
>sprites?
Nah. It's perfect as it.
The Pokemon models in XYORAS are fantastic
Overworld however looked like shit in XY but it improved in ORAS, and Sun/Moon looks even better. Sprites are done.
You're a retard. You just said it yourself, they've already done all this work on these models; going back to sprites would be throwing away all this work. Whether it's SUMO, or something after it, we will catch up eventually and at that point the switch is going to be worth it.
>>26524962
Not to mention, they future-proofed the XY/ORAS models by using ridiculous polygon counts, so much so that the 3DS can't handle all of it and the framerate constantly shits itself.
>>26524952
Feraligatr was completely ruined though.
>>26525109
>Need I remind everyone that the Pokemon models used in Gen 6 were already modelled by the time of Pokedex 3D Pro's release? And that it was created by Creatures under supervision of the Pokemon Company, not Game Freak?
No, but you obviously need to be reminded they're not the same models.
>>26524975
gen 5 looked liked shit regardless, can't believe they regressed that bad from gen 4 to 5. At least gen 6 looks appealing.
>>26524939
Fuck off GenVunner.
>>26525327
Are you sure about that? the 3D Pro models are just as ridiculously high-poly as the Gen 6 models, and many of the Pokemon have the same jarring attributes. The only differences I notice off the bat is the cel-shading of the Gen 6 models and a few tweaks to """important""" Pokemon like Pikachu, but as far as the actual models go they look pretty darn similar to me. I'm fairly sure Serebii mentioned this himself but I'll have to fish around for his comments and get back to you
>>26524939
They're taking the first steps towards making pokemon a 3rd person open world gamewith a real time combat system.
Eat shit jrpgfags.
>>26524939
Excapt they didn't need to make more than the new Gen VI models for XY.
They had those beforehand with Pokedex 3D or whatever.
Similarly, for new games, they already have those HD models ready.
>>26524939
Other than /vp/, I haven't heard of a single person that complains about pokemon, and I work at a beta filled call agency.
>>26525800
People just fucking love the Pokémon games. It's a good game for the kiddie demographic, the autistic "I have two 3DS to trade and only have perfect IV mons" demographic and everything in between. The only thing that would tank the franchise would be the devs listening to /vp/ autismos for 3-4 games in a row.
>>26525785
Look how that worked for Final Fantasy. Literally worse than selling garbage. You have no business here anymore.
The issues with XY and ORAS are conscious design decisions, not "muh 3D". But keep fooling yourself into thinking Game Freak hasn't forsaken you for the mobile audience.
>>26524939
>I don't like change! No one else should either!
Shut up, mong. Quit being a faggot.
Do you want to depend on upgrades or do you want to depend on leveling up? That is the question. Neither really takes more skill than the other.
>>26524939
>amie
>super training
>dexnav
>PSS
>horde battles
>sky battles
>inverse battles
>sneaking
>soaring
>battle maison
>better breeding mechanics
>riding pokémon
>skates
>customization
>friend safari
>restaurants
>o powers
>pokémon bank
>pokémiles>mirage spots
>super secret bases
>contests
>lack of content
>XY/ORAS wasn't as good as it could of potentially be
>so they should give up on 3d modelling forever instead of trying to improve on it
Don't tell me you're one of those people that simply give up after something doesn't turn out the way you planned it.
>>26525313
You're just mad you can't see his asscheeks anymore
Are you retarded, OP?
The fact that they've made the last 721 Pokemon models already bodes well. Now they can reuse them forever. The resolution they're designed at is far greater than the 3DS or even Wii U could ever do, and these models will likely be used, with minor texture changes, for the next 5 generations.
Now they only have to worry about designing new Pokemon. They don't have to redraw sprites every generation anymore.
Sure, Gen 6 sucked, but to imply that Gen 7 will because >m-muh 3D
it's straight up retarded.
You really didn't think this through, did you?
>>26524999
>grid-squares
What are you talking about? The circle pad isn't locked to a grid.
>>26525956
>>26526048
These two posts together sum it up pretty succinctly. Sorry OP, I know it's nice to have a convenient scapegoat like "muh 3D" to pawn all of Gen 6's problems off on to, but the actual issue wasn't that the games were devoid of content, it's that the resources were channeled into content that didn't personally appeal to you. Normies ate this shit up, and there was certainly a lot of new features in generation 6 even if you didn't personally like them or find a use for them.
Don't blame 3D, blame the directors and designers.
>>26524939
In what world do you live where sprites are cheaper, quicker or easier to animate than 3D models? There are hardly even any good professional sprite artists left, so how would GF fare better with sprites compared to 3D models in terms of staff competent at making them?
>>26524972
You're not exactly doing sprites any justice when those look terrible. The models there look good though.
>>26525301
playing with muk ingame... god the 3ds cant handle the this pokemon.
>>26526330
Muk is one of the better models anon.
If you want to get crazy hack in a Volcanion only triple battle.
>>26526048
>ok
>not bad but it pointless
>exclusive feature too ORAS
>Yes, but pointless once new games come out
>interesting concept, but slow as fuck framrate
>I forgot those were a thing weren't even used in ORAS that's how little they cared about it
>cool, but only 1 person does it can't even use it on PSS
>that's apart of dexnav
>I'll give you soaring
>Battle Maison, how the fuck is that a positive, it's literally the battle subway. Look it up on bulbapedia, they coppies the same sets and names.
>cool
>why do we need an item to not be on grid? And then is pointless after bike
>can be improved, but is never coming back.
>Not bad, but only in XY
>Not a bad method for cash
>ever hear of pass powers?
>thx for the payed service for transferring mons gf
>what?
>Was in RSE, and making you wait for RNG for a TM is bullshit
>Literally Secret Bases in Wifi
>Literally coppies pasted contests
Literally none of these things add to the game except and can be ignored. And then after Gen 7 even more of these will be pointless, even more than the Joint Avenue
It's like you have a piece of a very bland piece of bread, but it looks nice and then you have very little butter you have to go out of your way to get it
I'd just prefer having a sprite overworld and 3d model battles
>>26524972
Everything bar the characters themselves are 3D models in this image.
>>26526573
THIS. THIS IS WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG..
1) Sprite style overworld, that way we can have our Pokémon follow us and keep that vintage Pokémon feel with sweet chiptune music.
2) Fully 3D modeled battles, like in XY.
>>26524972
Still the best art style.
But let's give 3D a chance. In a few years I think that we will be glad we did. Couldn't stay 2D forever, I think we all knew that.
>>26526630
Give it a chance? I know this is new for pokemon, but I saw the same arguments in general when 3D was new in general. If you haven't gotten over it by now, then there is no hope for you. I have nothing to say.
>capcom's art/engine team will never be forced to help out on a pokemon game
>>26526630
>Still the best art style.
Thats not Cel Shaded
>>26526652
What the fuck?
Is that N3DS exclusive?
>>26526692
Apparently not. I am really curious how the final game will run. The fact that they are doing actual lighting of sorts, and full shadows seems crazy.
>>26526692
No. Probably runs way better in N3DS tho
>>26526593
Sssh you'll blow the 2Dtwits tiny minds.
>>26524939
I agree that the switch to 3D wasn't a good decision, but I'm reluctant to say Gen 6's poor quality is BECAUSE of it.
Sure, a lot of energy went into the models themselves and that definitely took time away from other important aspects of the game, but ultimately it boils down to the team itself being inexperienced. They were being a little too ambitious and bit off more than they could chew, I believe.
SM's beta footage already looks loads better than XY's beta footage. Maybe I'm naive, but I have hope that SM will at least look better than XY. Hopefully this means the series is improving again.
>>26526839
I'm inclined to agree.
X and Y introduced a lot of new content, but it was all underdeveloped. And it's not just because there was a focus on the 3D itself. Resources where spread thin throughout.
>>26526535
>Literally none of these things add to the game except and can be ignored.
Your entire post literally does nothing but go "NUH UH". I mean you're saying that the PSS did nothing for the game when it allows the player to connect online from anywhere as opposed to going to the pokemon center.
Did it ever occur to you that you might not like pokemon anymore?
>>26526611
>thinking sprites have an affect on the music
Are you retarded?
>>26526839
As long as this game is still about a purposeless quest to the Champion, it never will.
>>26526103
Gen 7 will run on the same hardware gen 6 did in case you didn't notice.
>>26526904
The game has been more than that since gen 3 anon.
>>26526894
When the game receives the fate of gen 4/5 the PSS will become useless. I'm trying to say these features aren't worth replaying a whole game compared to the other ds games. I want a challenge. Battle Maison is just fucking RNG.
>>26526924
The only technicality is gen 5, and that made you do the quest anyway to get there. It was forced. None of the villains have anything to do with your quest. They're just in your way.
>>26526932
Then go back to your fucking simulators.
Not sprites, but cartoon like features and the world being in cellshading and the pokémon being in "pseudo 3d that looks like a 2D animated" This will be the top.
>>26526932
>I want a challenge.
Why in the fuck are you playing pokemon then?
There has yet to be a single game in the series that's been a challenge.
>>26526960
>stop wanting things I don't care about
>>26526974
>expecting something from a game that was never there to begin with
You are literally never going to get a challenge from this series not unless you're a drooling retard.
It's like expecting the next Kirby game to have RIP AND TEAR! gameplay.
>>26527030
Ever hear of the PWT? Or battle Frontier? Level limits with items and sets. They are a challenge
Also challenge mode?
>>26527099
>Ever hear of the PWT? Or battle Frontier? Level limits with items and sets.
Oh you mean the areas with the exact same RNG the maison has?
You literally said you don't want that shit.
You're clearly a retard if you thought challenge mode was challenging. Did you even play in that mode anon?
Everyone likes to point out that the Pokedex 3D Pro already had the models available, but it's convenient that they forget those models need to be animated as well. For XY alone, each Pokemon had at least 3 different animations (physical attack, special attack, support attack) with some Pokemon even having up to 5. That's at least ~2,200 different animations for the Pokemon alone. ORAS even added another animation (battle entrance) bringing it closer to 3,000. And this is all not including character animations, cutscenes, world modeling, etc.
People like to cry laziness but a company who's never fully delved into the world of 3D is obviously going to have more time constraints than sticking to what they've known for 15 years. It's sad that they get shit on so much because the fruits of their labor this gen is all in the details and no one cares.
>>26527166
It really is a shame isn't it.
>>26527152
I want them to respect some of our intelligence. The highest levels trainer in X and Y was Emma with 2 Pokemon and no items, whereas in fucking BW2 you have Colress with Smogon sets and items at a higher level too, in a game without the Exp share.
As for the Maison, it's not the same Fucking RNG as the frontier. I lost on round 78 because I missed 3 thunderbolts Ina row. That's not the kind of shit they through anywhere else
>>26527166
Don't forget the animations for megas and Amie too.
...tho there's still the weird oddity of luvdisc and tympole having no actual fainting animation
>>26527225
Kids have no intelligence. Now go cry in your corner.
>>26527152
>PWT
>Same luck driven rng as maison and battle frontier
>>26524939
Was this seriously a beta route?
They could change up the colors and art style, but the 3d models are fine in and of themselves.
I really hope they ditch the dark outline and 3 color texture some time, it's really clear they're still trying to imitate the older sprite graphics, but in 3d.
>>26527225
>As for the Maison, it's not the same Fucking RNG as the frontier.
They all work in the same way you retard the only adjustments the make is for new moves and pokemon.
>I lost on round 78 because I missed 3 thunderbolts Ina row. That's not the kind of shit they through anywhere else
Yeah except every facility since their inception. Oh yeah did you get a replay?
You people tend to lie through your teeth on these matters.
>>26527254
Not him but play a mode other than the legacy trainers
>>26527242
I mean they actually respected us in the last game to fucking going to who even cares about this shit. Kids will eat it up. I feel like you're forgetting all the kids who do the vgc tournament anyways anon
>>26527337
And I don't think you realize how stupid even the idea of competitive pokemon really is.
>>26527276
No it's not fucking like that, plus they aren't all the same just battles, 3/4 last games before X and Y had something unique in postgame. Then you fucking copy and paste the postgame into the next game, with no changes at all? What games have done this period? (Minus HGSS which had the battle frontier)
>>26527357
Ok, now you're just being retarded. Even though I hate VGC, you're acting like it doesn't even exsist
>>26527288
Now why would I do that when BP is so easy to get the normal way?no seriously I don't think I even tried the other mode
>>26527337
>I mean they actually respected us in the last game
You're kidding right.
>>26527388
It's like you didn't even play the postgame anon.
Remixing every gym theme and champion theme
Have you even seen champions tournament? Or the npc sets, or just how much there is to do?
>>26527379
My opinion stands. VGC is a crock of shit.
>>26527365
This post is near unintelligible.
Also
>this doesn't count!
Crystal, RS and DP battle tower
RS and DP contests and secret bases although stripped of features and mechanics.
>>26527414
Dude, you're basically saying that the game can be easy as shit if it has enough tidbits to cover it.
>>26526652
>capcom engine
>people who made a home console port work way worse than portable original
>or didn't bother coding online support and just strapped a slightly modded version of an already existing program to their game
>people who still use gen 2 assets, cut out featured and reintroduce some of them ages later in cut state, and generally fuck up everything.
Can this dumb meme stop? Stories will be shit and run like shit on o3ds like cross currently does. Capcom is incompetent, always was and always will be
>>26527414
>All these glorious old gen remixes and gen 5 music direction in general
>Move forward to XY music
Where did they go wrong....
>>26524939
Fuck you, you stupid fucking faggot.
People like you are the worst by far. You might as well be a genwunner, and thats coming from someone who's first game was Red back in 99.
3D models are what we have been waiting for since it first came out.
You can see every detail and animation of each Pokemon instead of dancing glitchy blocks.
Sprites are gone forever, thank God.
>>26527414
What does this have to do with your argument exactly?
I mean, you went from challenge to gimmicks and legacy features that don't make things any harder.
Did you only play the PWT by the way?
>>26527471
XY has a good enough set of tracks, fuck off
>>26527537
>good enough instead of great/amazing
Don't get me wrong XY has a handful of great tracks but coming from gen 5 it's somewhat of a slap to the face. Opinion not fact
Shota Kageyama as music director.
>>26527592
Coming from gen 5 every track will seem mediocre, they had to do at least something good about this crock of shit generation and they picked postgame and music
>>26525109
those are not the same models at all, anon. you are fucking stupid.
>>26527537(you)
>>26525399
they're just not the same models, dumbass. no amount of opinion can get you out of the fact that they are Just Not.
>>26527748
ebin
>>26525787
pokedex 3D does not use the same models at all, are you fucking blind?
>>26527499
It related to my post because that place was a challenge with real sets and teams, plus wasn't filled with RNG. Still had white tree hollow/black tower
>>26525787
Those models looked disgusting, but they had good animations however
>>26526115
that has been a thing in almost every single pokemon game, to the point where i'd say it's a staple. this thread can't make up its mind- do you want the games to be like the old ones? or do you want them to be different?
>>26527822
You'll never get an answer for that. They'll be at each other's throats for all eternity. I say those that can't decide get nothing.
>>26527783
>pokedex 3D does not use the same models at all, are you fucking blind?
Yes it does.
It just uses different lighting
>>26527892
There has to be a way to compare these models properly, without their textures.
That's no fucking excuse. These motherfuckers are rolling in money. Pokebank subsrciptions alone is enough for payroll. They're just Jews. Just like every other company, they want their profits to far outweigh costs, and they'll cut costs any and everywhere. They're videogame developers after all, they can't be trusted.
>>26527916
>Porting red
>Literallt no changes
Sell 1.2 million copies at 10$
That's more than most 3ds games
>>26527916
That's what companies fucking exist to do.
>Being 12
lol
>>26524972
>HG/SS was the best set of games for sprite work
I play my Heart Gold just based on the fact that everything in that game is so beautiful. Really disappointing to see Black/White ruin it.
>>26527915
http://www.models-resource.com/3ds/pokemonxy/
?
>>26527989
They don't have the Pokedex pro models.
>>26525093
Welp, my hope for new models in SM just died. I hoped they would give the new generation a unique artstyle...
>>26528042
Unlikely. They could always update/change textures, lighting, or alter models but I wouldn't expect a re-model of all 830 or whatever it is.
>>26527763
prove it then
>>26527978
Heads up anon, the overworld is made up of models except for the players.
>>26527789
You didn't address any of the parts that could provide challenge in that post also that only applies to the leader sets that make up less than a quarter of the PWT.
White treehollow wasn't a challenge either.
What exactly is your point here again? Because anything regarding challenge in a Pokemon game is only making it more apparent that you aren't particularly good at video games.
>>26528088
EZPZ
Haxorus is the most obvious due to the different proportions.
