If Arceus is all good, then he cannot be all powerful. And if he is all powerful, then he cannot be all good.
Is Arceus willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then it is not omnipotent. Is Arceus able, but not willing? Then it is malevolent.
Dumb logic. God wouldn't just make a perfect world because what would be the point? You have to earn what you get, no good without bad, etc.
>>26432043
>Then it is not omnipotent. Is Arceus able, but not willing? Then it is malevolent.
>>26432053
>implying Arceus hasn't good reasons to allow "evil"
>implying puny humans know what evil is better than Arceus
Arceus, like real god but perhaps a bit more, does not care about you personally and is totally willing to be malevolent.
Arceus is just a creation god. He doesnt give a fuck about your morality.
I dont think he's even omnipotent. He just makes stuff or made stuff at one point.
>>26432125
If Arceus allows evil, then he is not good.
>>26432125
Sorry, not him, but your argument falls short to compete with the other anon's. Continued arguing will just show your idiocy. Thank you.
>>26432137
this
>>26432053
That's not malevolence. That's like paying for half your kid's college, but making them pay for the other half to learn the value of a dollar or whatever rather than just spoiling them by covering the whole bill.
>>26432025
>know-it-alls not realising he exists outside our matrix
>>26432223
>comparing Sinful Parental figure to supposed Omnipotent Being
maybe there is a reason
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/good-news-from-god/why-god-allows-evil-and-suffering/
>>26432025
BOYS MMMM
>>26432239
It's 8th grade philosophy to claim that an omnipotent being has to act by human standards and understanding of right and wrong, or even what is considered action or inaction.
>>26432025
Canonically...
1. Arceus isn't omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscience and etc.
2. Arceus sleeping in Hall of Origin in Sinnoh and only be awoken by playing the
Azure Flute.
3. Arceus is call " Creation Pokémon"
It is not call " God Pokémon"
4. Arceus came from a Egg.
>>26432025
6. Arceus is a neutral creator deity Pokémon.
7. We don't know, if Arceus is a male or a female. It's gender is unknown.
>>26433778
Whilst you are correct from a game standpoint, you are incorrect from a theological one
>>26433804
>theological one?
How?
In eastern mythologies the creator deity is generally not the most powerful being in the universe, just the one that creates it
>>26433778
>>26433802
How many Arceus you can get in the game? Two?
>>26433817
It's a thinly-veiled fedoraposting thread, I recommend ignoring it.
>>26432223
it's god. he doesn't need to teach us, he can just imprint us with the lesson without any actual suffering involved.
>>26433835
>fedora
I think op is an atheist, not an agnostic.
>>26433833
I don't know?
Red and blue. Fight night. The greatest gladiator match in the history of the world: Leviathan versus behemoth; land versus oceans
>>26433835
I don't think they that Arceus is not omnipotent and omniscience.
It's a neutral Pokémon who sleep a lot.
>>26432129
That's a really bad argument. The conclusion does not follow from the premise. Allowing for the existence of evil is not equivalent to not being good.
>>26432129
That's a really bad argument. The conclusion does not follow from the premise. Allowing for the existence of evil is not equivalent to not being good. >>26433850
Then you would have no choices to make, not be sentient, and effectively, be as good as nonexistent.
Arceus just wants to see his ant farm go. Sometimes he sends down one of his thousand hands when he gets really bored, but that's just to let one of the ants play around with it and see what happens.
>>26432025
Arceus doesn't give a shit. It made some stuff and took a nap.
>>26432025
Arceus is above good and evil
>>26432025
>applying human standards to beings above humanitygod this movie was shit
>>26432240
>www.jw.org
>the flashbacks
>>26433676
then life is worthless. If love is just imprinted on us, it's not actual love.
>>26434755
Meant for this >>26433850
>>26432223
If God were omnipotent then he could create a world in which we are capable of learning without any evil
Omnipotent literally means all-powerful, as in nothing is impossible or pointless for him. The fact that the world as we experience it has any unpleasantness, any perceived evil, is proof that he is either not all powerful, not all benevolent, or simply doesn't exist
>/vp/ - Pokemon
Hat gesture
>>26434767
This implies evil is an actual thing and not just an opposing perspective from a certain viewpoint. For example, Repbulicans say Democrats are evil in America and Democrats say the same about them while they both claim to be good.
In reality good and evil are all subjective. So God being Omnipotent wouldn't matter with good and evil, we'd just assign good or evil to things as we came to it.
For curiosity's sake, what would make of people that you could call the definition of e?
For example, if anyone here has read or even watched Akame ga Kill, you'd know that Syura is an absolute monster, but is he "evil"?
>>26434875
Damn he hot
>>26432025
Shut up Nietzsche
>>26434927
That bastard and his posse raped a widow and her daughter to death right on top of the father/husband's grave.
>>26435091
Doesn't change the fact that he's hot.
>>26434755
>if god exists life is worthless
you got that right.
>>26434875
What sucks about Syura is that I think he could pass for a good guy. He looks like the kind of person who'd be a smart ass but a good person overall. Sadly he was born to a corrupt fatass who twisted him.
>>26435144
I'm talking about if god just imprinted perfection onto us, not if god existed, dumbass.
>>26435183
but if god did truly exists than life IS meaningless for us asshat.
>>26434755
>its not actual love
if god created it than yes, it's actual love.
or is it beyond god power?
>>26434786
*tips papal tiara*
>>26432025
Gods in many Eastern religions, especially in Shinto, are NOT omnipotent, omnipresent, or omniscient. They are very powerful and know more than humans, but they still have very real flaws. And there are many of them, each responsible for certain things. THIS is what the mythology of the Sinnoh region is based off of.
Stop applying Western, monotheistic theology to Eastern pantheistic religions, you fucking dumbasses.
>>26435199
God exists but he doesn't do that, douche nozzle.
>>26435230
>worshipping spirits of nature
bah, pegans.
the one true god is where your eyes should be at.
>>26434845
pretty much this. nothing is wholly evil for everything was made by god and therefore serves a purpose. for example the corpses of dead animals and man ushers in new life by nurturing the soil, which in turn provides nutrients for cattle who graze, which are later hunted and eaten by man. (death also lowers the population count which has objectively gotten out of control.)
how we choose to die is mostly of our own choosing. multiculturalism is a lofty ideal that will never succeed. sometimes the best intentions have unexpected outcomes. the two sides will either assimilate or reject the other. sure, god could intervene, but then what is free will?
>>26435258
God doesn't do anything at all since she only exists as a story, furfag.
>>26435216
Literally speaking, imprinted love is forced love.
>>26432025
Demiurge a shit
>>26435274
He created us, faggot.
>>26434845
>>26435267
>nothing is evil before god
>hell is just a myth.
>>26435275
that logic doesn't apply to god.
>>26435298
>that logic doesn't apply to god
Why not?
>>26435290
We created god, peabrain.
>>26435306
As if, fedora edgelord.
>>26435302
because everything god does is just an fair, so even forced love is not forced but natural.
>>26435313
Truth is harsh, braindead cattlemen.
>>26435298
you don't have to do things or put up with stuff you don't like. literally all your sins can be forgiven so if girl in pic related felt she need to stabbity stab her bf a few times that's between her and her conscience.
also i believe in hell but not like most people or even the neo hippy people. my take on it is probably closer to something /x/ would think up.
>>26435316
>god does is just an fair
But that's wrong, if if he took the most innocent soul and throw it in hell that would be unjust and not fair, God doesn't do that.
>>26435338
>implying you know the truth
Fucktard
>>26435348
>sins
how can there be sins if evil is something humans created?
>>26435351
I don't know his name in english, but there was a story in the bible about a gamble between god and satan with some guy named eyov (job?) that got royalty fucked just so god could prove satan eyov fate is the real deal.
anyway there is plenty of evil in god ways, but since she is the corner stone for deciding what is right and what is wrong, nothing she does is considered evil ever.
>>26435363
>implying this isn't the truth
Dimwit.
>>26435412
>nothing she does is considered evil ever
I'm not Christian. Reread this >>26435351
>>26435262
Fucking monotheists and your shitty-ass hypocritical god who literally doesn't give a crap about you despite saying he does. >"THOU SHALT NOT KILL except for those guys over there, they don't worship me I hate them,"
>"Love thy neighbors-- unless they don't worship me, then feel free to hate them,"
>"Oh yeah, I'm totally watching over you and protecting you. Except for when I cause hurricanes and earthquakes and shit like that, lololol"
At least the gods from other religions don't pretend to be friends of humanity.
>"Hey, you human assholes, you'd better fucking respect the power of nature, or else it's gonna wreck your shit. What, you want us to do everything for you? Fuck no, we're busy doing our own jobs, you gotta learn to be self-sufficient. We might lend you a little help every now and then, but you have to meet us halfway, okay? There's no such thing as a free lunch."
>"Heaven or Hell? Most of us don't decide such things. You don't even have to believe in the people who DO decide such things-- all they care about is how you live your life. If you're that worried about eternal suffering after you've croaked, then how about you try not being fucking assholes to the other living things around you?"
>>26435412
>I, a mere human, can understand the universe and it's creator.
>>26432025
Somebody just took a peek into a philosophy 101 book. Arceus is not a god. Youre trying to disprove that he is a perfect god, which he never was.
>>26435477
>im not christian
and your god didn't do anything ever that might be considered morally wrong?
>>26435489
>I, a mere human, can send messeges to a human miles apart from me and know it will reach there within seconds
>>26435482
>>"Love thy neighbors-- unless they don't worship me, then feel free to hate them,"
You're supposed to be nice to your neighbour, no matter their religion. If they see what a great person you are, they'll become attracted to know about you and your religion.
>>"Oh yeah, I'm totally watching over you and protecting you. Except for when I cause hurricanes and earthquakes and shit like that, lololol"
You don't understand tests that god has issued upon us.
>>26435412
i guess you could say humans created sin when adam and eve ate the apple. that's when "man fell", but it all works out in the end because satan can't outsmart god. god's creations are like a rube goldberg machine that can't be faulted. our current condition really is less than ideal but you and i probably wouldn't be here if adam and eve didn't disobey god. it is both a blessing and a curse.
>>26435521
>and your god didn't do anything ever that might be considered morally wrong?
No
>>26435521
>>I, a mere human, can send messeges to a human miles apart from me and know it will reach there within seconds
How is this relevant
>>26435532
is disobeying god evil?
>>26435535
oh, you are a fellow spaghetti believer. godspeed.
>>26435546
it means that despite religion attampts to downplay humanity, we are able of feats of science and knowledge. we, that is our colective knowledge and abilities, which can be called upon by the individuals, outmatch our 'mere' status.
>>26432025
>Using monotheistic Abrahamic God as the basis of evaluating Arceus, a Japanese character in a Japanese game inspired by mostly Japanese mythology and folklore.
>Applying subjective value to a supreme God, who is very well above the idea
OP you're retarded of you seriously wanted a debate on this subject. Go shitpost on /his/ or something.
>>26435596
>it means that despite religion attampts to downplay humanity, we are able of feats of science and knowledge. we, that is our colective knowledge and abilities, which can be called upon by the individuals, outmatch our 'mere' status.
You think our feats are able to match God's? Even before the universe, God's creation, our mere status matches our ability to understand it.
>>26435596
>fellow spaghetti believer
No. Wherever would you get such a nonsensical idea?
Holy shit this thread is literally r//atheism especially >>26435596
>fellow spaghetti believer.
>>26432025
>Arceus willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then it is not omnipotent. Is Arceus able, but not willing? Then it is malevolent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_of_all_possible_worlds
>>26435596
that is a good question. there could be a loophole to everything. i don't know but i think unless that person was tricked or didn't know the full details they would go to hell unless they repent. and i mean really repent, not commit mass killing sprees with the intent of asking for forgiveness on one's death bed.
i mean god was pretty pissed off when we first fucked up, it wasn't until jesus was crucified that he understood that humans really don't know what the fuck we're doing.
>B-but God is all-loving and nurturing
What is the Old Testament
>>26435614
I literally just said this a while ago, but it's good to see other sensible people here.
>>26435596
>is disobeying god evil?
Misguided, mostly.
>>26432025
>If Arceus is all good
This was never a claim.
>>26435634
yeah, we must all tremble before god and his mighty lightnings and eclipses. let us not think how they actually work, they are too much for our sheep brains.
>>26435649
the only god that did nothing that could even be considered wrong by modern moral standards.
>>26435665
#butthurt
>>26435681
alll im saying is that evil is not subjective as long as god is involved.
>>26435765
>#butthurt
>#
>>>/reddit/
>>26435765
>yeah, we must all tremble before god and his mighty lightnings and eclipses. let us not think how they actually work, they are too much for our sheep brains.
I'm talking about what's outside the observable universe, not what we already understand on earth and in the solar system. How ironic that I, a believer, am actually more open-minded than you are.
>>26435819
newsflash- humannity used to not know anything about lies beyond the horrizon. now we got new horrizons, but open minded people like you should know they are not the limit of our understandings, 'mere' humans or not.
>>26435765
>the only god that did nothing that could even be considered wrong by modern moral standards
A mock religion can be shaped into what the majority wants it to be, generally to become more appealing. That's why FSM is, as you said, "the only "god" that did nothing that could even be considered wrong by modern moral standards"
>>26435837
>newsflash- humannity used to not know anything about lies beyond the horrizon. now we got new horrizons, but open minded people like you should know they are not the limit of our understandings, 'mere' humans or not.
Humility and humbleness are not bad. Our feats are nothing compared to God. Do not let hubris cloud your eyes.
>>26435765
i'll dissent and agree with you there, disobeying god is disobeying god, subjective opinions need not apply. but sometimes it's necessary to choose between two evils. that's why repenting is important.
thinking about it logically and scientifically, "repenting" is like a form of cognitive behavior therapy. without it we might come to enjoy cheating on our spouses (whoops, too late for that one) or killing others for sport, for example.
>>26435856
exactly. the only god who never did anything wrong is the one created by modern people.
>>26435893
god doesn't exist, so how could she posssibly outdo our feats?
>>26436005
sometimes, doing something is enjoyable BECAUSE of the taboo on it.
>>26432025
He never meant to be all good, he's just all powerful, and that's enough
Why would he try to prevent evil when evil is just a human construction
Nowhere is it said that Arceus is supposed to be a perfect god.
Think about it like this:
A bird (Swellow) is faster than Arceus.
A sloth (Slaking) has more HP than Arceus.
A bear (Ursarine) has more attack.
What type of "perfect" god is slower than a bird, weaker than a bear, and has less stamina than a sloth?
>>26436061
>exactly. the only "god" who never did anything wrong is the one created by modern people.
It's easy to fake a god that aligns itself with the will of the majority. A fake god can be imprinted what we want on it. A true god is just and lawful.
>>26436159
sure, make sense.
the idea of god itself doesn't make sense tough, so it's like that- god isn't good because her acts are good, her acts are good because they are preformed by god. thats how the idea of god works.
>>26436061
>god doesn't exist, so how could he posssibly outdo our feats?
>god doesn't exist
You must have understanding of the world and the whole universe(omniscience) to spout such silly statement. Oh wait, you don't...
>>26436219
I actually do.
>>26436209
>god isn't good because his acts are good, his acts are good because they are preformed by god. thats how the idea of god works.
Reread this >>26435351
>>26436219
we do. its called physics.
>>26436230
You must be deranged to spout this one.>
>>26436251
thats the point. god do as god's will and everything she does is good because she is god.
it's not about logic. it's faith. faith in the cradibility of god.
>>26436254
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unsolved_problems_in_physics
>>26436284
>>26436284
>implying we can't solve them given time and labor
>>26436268
A god sending an innocent soul to hell is definitely an unjust god, God doesn't do that. If a god is a tyrannical god, he would be considered tyrannical, not good.
>>26436301
As we solve them, new problem will be found, only god can understand all.
>>26436309
So you are saying god can't do certain things?
>>26436321
how do you, a mere human, knows the problems have no end?
>>26436291
Why did you reply to >>26436284
>>26436332
>how do you, a mere human, knows the problems have no end?
how do you, a mere human, knows the problems have an end, in this vast world created by God?
>>26436336
because people that posts articles of others as anything beside source, deserve to be replied in kind.
he could have just said there are many problems yet to be solved, why bringing the wiki?
>>26436332
>So you are saying god can't do certain things?
No. I saying there are things he *wouldn't* do.
>>26436349
because science is about reaching the root of things, not expanding to forever.
also, YOU are a mare human, I am part of humanity collective knowledge.
ARCEUS IS NOT LIKE THE ALL-POWERFUL ABRAHAMIC GOD.
ARCEUS IS A CREATOR GOD IN A PANTHEON OF MANY GODS. HE'S A CREATOR. NOTHING MORE, NOTHING LESS.
ARCEUS AND THE REST OF THE SINNOH LEGENDARIES ARE INSPIRED BY SHINTO AND BUDDHIST MYTHOS, NOT FUCKING CHRISTIANITY.
JUDAISM/CHRISTIANITY/ISLAM IS NOT THE ONLY BELIEF SYSTEM IN THE WORLD, NOR DO ITS INANE RESTRICTIONS AND RULES APPLY TO PANTHEISTIC RELIGIONS.
HOW ABOUT YOU CHUCKLEFUCK ACTUALLY TAKE THE TIME TO LEARN WHAT A GOD ACTUALLY IS IN OTHER RELIGIONS THAN YOUR OWN FUCKING CLOSE-MINDED, SELF-CENTERED ONE
STOP APPLYING WESTERN RELIGIOUS RULES TO EASTERN RELIGIONS AND PHILOSOPHIES
IT
DOESN'T
WORK
HOLY SHIT
thank you for your time
>>26436364
so god CAN send an innocent soul to hell? because if he can, it means he isn't goodness incarnate, and if he can't there goes his omnipotance.
>>26436370
>because science is about reaching the root of things, not expanding to forever
The vast nature of our world, God's world, prevents it from doing so. Only god can understand all.
>>26436364
god can do whatever she pleases and her lackeies will go all 'god works in mysterious ways'.
>>26436384
"can" does not mean "will" or "would", my dear.
>>26436394
how do you know it does that, mere human? how can a mere human like you challange the vast knowledge of humanity?
>>26436398
I'm fairly certain *if* god announced he was going to torture everyone, many would rebel against him.
>>26436377
Arceus is based on christianity. go fact check yourself. Why do you think Sinnoh has churches based on christian ones?
>>26436404
can goodness do evil? by it's very definition god is a paradox, it contradicts itself.
>>26436415
winner rewrites history.
>>26436408
>how do you know it does that, mere human? how can a mere human like you challange the vast knowledge of humanity?
the vast knowledge of humanity does not even begin compare to God's and God's world.
That's a thought too big for little minds.
>>26433778
Fuck off mewtist
>>26432240
You shouldn't be on 4chan
>>26436423
>can goodness do evil? by it's very definition god is a paradox, it contradicts itself.
God can but wouldn't, that's where the goodness part comes it. If God is Goodness itself, he's just a machine.
>>26436423
>winner rewrites history.
That implies God has any imperfections to hide.
>>26436362
>>26436291 wasn't relevant to >>26436284 while >>26436284 was relevant to >>26436254
>>26436417
From Arceus' Pokémon wiki page-
>Origin
>Arceus is particularly based on a creator deity, present in many world cultures. Arceus's stance and general form are similar to Egyptian bull and calf idols, particularly Apis. Based on its official artwork and attack movements in the 3D games, Arceus may be modeled after a horse or llama. The arc on its back may be inspired by the circle arc used to represent reincarnation in Hinduism.
>The conception of the first god might be influenced by the Shinto gods Kunitokotachi and Amenominakanushi, who summoned Izanami and Izanagi to create Japan with the spear. It may also be a reference to the qilin, a Chinese mythical creature. Its myth is nearly identical to that of the Pangu, the Chinese creation deity. Arceus may also represent or be inspired by the bodhisattva Avalokiteśvara, who, in Buddhism, is either pictured with eleven heads and one thousand arms (the latter of which is mentioned in Arceus's Pokédex entry) or in a white, four-armed manifestation (which could look similar to Normal-type Arceus).
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Arceus_(Pokémon)
I DON'T SEE ANY SPECIFIC MENTIONS OF CHRISTIANITY ANYWHERE ON THAT PAGE, DO YOU, CHUCKLEFUCK?
I'm going to sleep now.
>>26436427
1. god exists- says you
2. god doesn't exists- says us
3. god says that god exists- you insists
4. god can't say she exists if god doesn't exists to say it- we know.
5. but god exists- say you
6. god do not exist - say us
you are a 'mare human' by your definition. by your own definition, you have no say in such matters.
>>26436428
its a copypaste. an ancient copypaste. really ancient.
>>26436475
thats why something can't be pure good. thats why god can't be pure good. god can't be omnipotent either, the heavy rock proves that omnipotance is a paradox. but if god is beyond logic than god CAN be both all good and all powerful. god is beyond logic, so her reasoning transcends our own and she can innocents to hell and still be god because who are we to question her? it's god, we are mere humans.
>>26436483
it implies that only /r/atheists and fedora tippers rebel against god. or witches. or peganists. depends on the era.
and night. i spent too much of my time on it already. sorry for quitting while im ahead. i know it isn't proper etiquate.
>>26436553
Being ahead means you're willing to listen to the opposing views before you resign. You're way behind, it seems.
>>26433778
Fuck off, Richard.
>>26436503
>using bulbapedo as a source
please kill yourself
>>26432025
Arceus is a non-omnipotent, non-omnipresent, Neutral creator deity Pokémon who is sleeping in the Hall of Origin in Sinnoh region.
>>26436848
It's true.
>>26433778
>>26433802
Put on a trip or use a name so I can filter the fuck out of you, Mewtist.
Goddammit.
>>26436877
>oh no, I was proven wrong! I'd better insult my opposition, that'll make me right!
How about you fuck off? Go jump off of a building. Don't worry, I'm sure your "God" will save you.
>>26436503
screaming in all caps
>>>/atheism/
>>26432025
F E D O R A
E
D
O
R
A
>>26432025
Alright Epicurus I need you to tone it down.
