For those of you who hate Smogon: why?
If the answer is, "competitive Pokemon is gay", that's not a legitimate reason.
If the answer is, "Smogonfags are gay", that has nothing to do with Smogon itself. Verlisify exists, but that isn't a flaw of VGC.
What is it about the Singles metagame created by Smogon that you feel the need to shitpost about?
Remember to think whether or not your argument has already been refuted before posting it. Or don't and allow it to be refuted.
People who hate smogon usually don't understand it, and comes mainly from blind hate.
The ones who understand it, and tried it but still dont like it, don't tend to be so vocal about it.
Literally a pedophile ring.
>>26411435
>it's not legitmate because I say so!
Smogon is FUCKING GAY, and so are you.
Competitive Pokemon is general is a joke because of how luck based it is.
I don't hate Smogon. Considering how broken competitive Pokemon is they don't do a bad job.
>>26411435
the democracy
Riddled with pedophiles. The game is whatever, but there are pedos all over the site and they cover up for each other.
>>26411468
>>26411509
I want normies to leave.
Making false claims without proof is the worst.
Literally the most autistic board.
>>26411468
Why do people actually make comments like this?
Trying to be funny, but failing completely.
There was one case of some guy talking to a 15 year old girl, who happened to be high up.
Would you say Subway was a paedophile ring because of Jared?
I get you were trying to be funny, but it wasn't funny, and you didn't contribute to the debate at all.
Go back to /b/
Smogon feels elitist, and has forever perpetuated the need to make genetically perfect pokemon. I feel pressured to because if they aren't they won't be 'competitively relevant'.
>>26411535
And your point is...?
>>26411554
And VGC has not done this? Or is the 1 point tolerance enough for you?
I am not aware nor do I care about any drama involving Smogon and have no feelings one way or the other about it, but I would be lying if I said I've never read through some of their builds. I didn't necessarily used it, but i appreciate the ideas
but like I said I dont know anything about who runs it or what they're involved in so
>>26411435
Really?
>Sleep clause
If that's not enough on it's own. If you aren't smart enough to use items and abilities, and you have to make up rules to compensate, you're pretty much stupid, and shouldn't be battling, let alone calling what you do "competitive"
>>26411587
Didn't Game Frea-
Oh, you almost got me.
>>26411554
Please explain how they perpetuate the need to make genetically perfect pokemon.
Smogon don't create pokemon, GameFreak do.
They simply order the pokemon into tiers where they are best suited.
In fact, Smogon do the OPPOSITE of what you just said.
If you look at VGC, most teams are carbon copies of each other.
Smogon gives weaker and less desirable pokemon the chance to be used more, in the lower tiers.
For example,Grumpig would never be used in VGC tournament format, but with Smogon, it's an excellent choice for PU.
It allows for a much wider and varied choice of competitive pokemon.
>>26411539
>one case
multiple cases, and then the rest of the higher ups deliberately hide any discussion or acknowledgement that it happened.
I don't /hate/ Smogon as such, and I think their tiers are pretty legitimate. With that being said, I think a lot of their 'clauses' are dumb and I don't subscribe to them. Swagger clause, sleep clause, evasion clause? Evasion clause is the dumbest to me because they're not just being tight on things, it's outright whitewashing one major mechanic of the game. I can maybe get on board with banning OHKOs
If you have to literally ban entire features of the battle system, then either the metagame isn't your cup of tea and you should find something else, or the game is bad for competitive. Play to win faggots
>>26411598
What? Continue that thought, I dare you.
>>26411587
Why is the sleep clause such a debated point?
Games would be utter shitshows without the sleep clause, how can you not see that?
Smogon allows for a higher quality of competitive play.
>>26411617
I was going to say that Sleep Clause was introduced in the Japanese version of Pokemon Stadium, but I know you knew that.
They are completely hypocritical in their policies when it comes to banning moves, abilities, and have a bias towards stallteams.
>>26411605
IV's and EV's idiot. Create perfect Pokémon, genetically. I assume GF doesn't do your breeding for you, otherwise you need to spill the beans about S&M.
>>26411630
*They are completely hypocritical in their policies when it comes to banning moves, abilities, and have a bias towards hyper offence.
Awful tiering system
Inconsistent rules
Unrealistic goals
Autistic playerbase
Hypocrital bans
Top tier players who abuse strong shit keep said strong shit from being banned.
Also I was 1800 elo last time I tried climbing the ladder, person who always responds with "t. 1300 elo"
>>26411435
Kneejerk bans and biased voting system. Also suspect tests for drops aren't frequent enough.
>>26411633
But, didn't VGC already do that? Or, do you think the 1 point tolerance is enough?
>>26411633
What do you expect, to cultivate and train your pokemon like you can in the games?
That is simply retarded.
Smogon is the best way of playing competitively.
>>26411649
>Awful tiering system.
Please tell me what you think is bad about the tiering system.
>>26411621
If GF wanted it there, it would have made it past the Japanese Pokémon Stadium. Your headcanon is simply stupid. You gonna rage quit because I use a FEAR Starly too?
>>26411629
Exactly.
>>26411630
This too.
>>26411649
This.
>>26411655
What?
>>26411657
You're stupid. I like Karenfags much better. Is Starly an uber? And yet, with the right setup, I can take everything out with a lv. 1 Starly. Smogon debunked.
>>26411667
Everything.
>>26411688
Also, moody bidoof. Kek.
>>26411688
My fav Pokemon is MegaFug. Can I use it?
>>26411667
Usage based tiering system is just idiotic. Quagsire was fine in RU but suddenly because it got used a lot more he's unable to be used in RU again until it drops in usage.
BLs are also a dumb concept, either make a fixed ban list for every pokemon in every tier or don't.
>>26411708
Of course you can. I don't see any reason you couldn't. I'd still take it down, but sure.
I don't hate smogon, but I guess I don't feel much fondness for it. Mostly because a lot of the people I met who were openly into it pushed it hard.
That and the shitposting that occurs whenever someone tries to do something against that format. I'm fine with smogon doing its own thing since they obviously put time into it, but I dislike those that are so obnoxiously loud about it.
>>26411722
With Golduck?Little do you know that Yache Berry exists.
>>26411435
Because smogonfags sperg out when you tell them that you like pokemon by their design and aesthetic rather than stats.
>>26411688
Doesn't most official Pokemon tournaments feature a sleep clause?
Or are you talking about in the tutorial?
>>26411737
Lol, of course!
[Little do you know my Evasion strat doesn't care, and Sheer Cold is a OHKO]
>>26411554
The need to make genetically perfect Pokemon is not a fault of Smogon. You want your Latios to outspeed a Garchomp? It's not going to unless it has the right IVs, EVs, and Nature. That has nothing to do with Smogon, it's all about competitive. You bet your ass that VGC players have genetically perfect Pokemon as well.
>>26411649
These are not reasons. You need to explain. What about the tiering system is awful? What are the goals are unrealistic? What about the bans are hypocritical?
>>26411650
Kneejerk bans? Please explain.
There have been two instances of the voting system being biased. One, the Aegislash ban, which was almost 50/50. It was later retested and almost unanimously agreed to stay Ubers. Two, the Shadow Tag ban from Ubers, which was reversed immediately.
All other votes require a 60% majority. What about this is biased?
>>26411688
You literally cannot take out everything with a level one Starly.
>>26411720
BL is just a way of banning Pokemon like Staraptor that are too good for UU but in terms of usage not good enough for OU.
Usage-based stats are the only way to tier things. People play to win, so the relative "power level" of a Pokemon is determined by how much it works in the meta it's in.
>>26411750
Official, key word, and those are meant to be fair more than competitive. How can you truly compete if you have all this ridiculous hand holding?
>>26411610
Bunch of manchildren didn't get any girls when they were too busy playing pokemon in middle school so they are trying to make up for it now. With the same mindstates and their autism they want 'pure' girls, not realizing that any chick that would talk to a neckbeard like someone at smogon is most likely a slut already.
>Been there when I was 16 in competitive TF2. Had a team and one girl was a member, she told me she was 14, later found out she had just turned 13.
>We cammed and masturbated on skype, was my ldr, cheated on me with some streamer guy from DayZ and got with him, who is getting cucked atm, as 3 months after break up I camsexed her again.
>Tfw 2 years later they are still together and she told me she regualry has sex with some 21 yr old at the age of 15 because he has nice tatoos.
>She was really sweet and cute the whole time too.
These virgins have no experiece and reading romatic hentai mangas has blurred their vision of reality.
>>26411771
What? I'm sorry, can you elaborate. I thought the competitions were meant to be more competitive.
>>26411756
So, not Golduck?
Wait, what Pokemon are you going to use to take down MegaFug?
>>26411750
Official formats don't have sleep clause, which is why dark void smeargle is so stupid in current VGC.
>>26411760
I literally can. Gliscor, poison heal, poison orb, hone claws, double team, protect, baton pass, Ninjask, bright powder, hone claws, double team, protect, baton pass, starly, focus sash, protect, endeavor, quick attack, detect, lapras, lax incense, sheer cold, horn drill, fissure, protect. Try me bro.
>>26411649
Saying you're 1800 without proof is meaningless. I can say I'm 1900 and have the opposite opinion.
I'd still say t. 1300 elo about you purely for your rash statements like "Top tier players who abuse strong shit keep said strong shit from being banned." which is so out of the loop.
>>26411809
t. 1200 elo
>>26411787
No, they're meant to compete, sure, but it's more about meeting people, and not so much destroying everything in your path.
It's mostly dumb unovabortions who weren't there at the begining, in gen 3 meta when shoddy and netbattle were still a thing, way before even pokemon online, smogon was the only semblant of competitive and the people who play it and respect it are most likely in that age group (started with gen I or II), newcomers simply don't get it since they can go online in their 3ds and play an already stablished meta. We created a meta when there wasn't one.
>>26411435
Smogon is a valiant attempt to bring order to the horrifically underbalanced pokemon games.
Hopefully gamefreak focuses on balance this gen rather than adding Primal Mega Charizard- Sun
>>26411800
Starly. Or lapras. Either works.
>>26411824
Source?
>>26411774
>>26411808
Only if you successfully set up completely and nobody hits through the evasion. Phazing moves, unaware, taunt, encore, or just non-shitty luck will shut you down.
>>26411848
Have you ever been? There's your source dumbass.
Haunter liked benis XD
Articuno liked benis XD
>>26411847
How does Starly KO MegaFug? Are you expecting MegaFug to be poisoned beforehand?
>>26411864
Have you?
>>26411808
Taunt.
Phazing + Hazards.
Encore.
Ghost-types exist.
Priority exists and any priority beats out a level one Starly.
There's a reason you don't see FEAR + Rage Powder used in VGC, where you're allowed to run pretty much anything.
Are you arguing that evasion is ballanced?
>>26411874
He's expecting to use FEAR starly that has been passed max evasion boosts and hoping that ESpeed misses. He really doesn't have any idea what he's talking about.
>>26411855
You're more than welcome to try, but then you deal with lapras, maxed evasion is tough, and those hone claws make a OHKO almost guaranteed. You could try sturdy, but it wouldn't help. You're forgetting about 5 and 6.
Smogon is the reason I'm not a faggot casual anymore, now I'm just a faggot.
It gives a relatively balanced singles format, which VGC doesn't offer. I'm even at the point where I can finally participate in suspect tests.
>>26411482
Do you have autism?
>>26411888
But why would Starly have evasion. It either has Focus Sash or Brightpowder, not both.
>>26411482
Please read the OP.
I really want to believe that /vp/ has legitimate reasons for hating Smogon but I'm afraid that >>26411462's post is accurate.
>>26411901
See >>26411808 for his proposed team.
>>26411930
But, what about my Unaware Quagsire?
>>26411874
Pay attention anon.
>>26411886
You really are dense.
>>26411888
I know exactly what I'm talking about. Chance is there for a reason. It's no fun if you always win, but winning against the odds, and with a lv. 1 starly?! That's fun. I play my way, you play yours. I'd still win.
>>26411901
Pay attention, Ninjask has bright powder. Baton pass. Evasion is passed to Starly. Ninjask also has double team.
>>26411958
>You really are dense
Explain.
>>26411958
But then the sash is broken by rocks.
>>26411890
Geez you're dumb. OHKO moves aren't affected by accuracy modifiers.
>>26411890
Only if you manage to set up max evasion and hone claws, and i listed several ways to block that. And even if you somehow boost up to max, unaware.
>>26411435
Although copy pasting sets can be a helpful learning tool, it cultivates a copy paste community, people will copy paste a set and actually think they have skill when they win against anyone, that isnt what being a trainer is even about, you also cant use a set unless your using stall, smogon has the idea that stall sets are superior, wich is why they ban anything that messes with stall, instead of trying to figure a way around something they just ban it, and theyll never figure out how to overcome anything because theyr using copy pasted sets, they in general for the most part lack the team and strategy building skills neccesary to overcome new obstacles, since theyve been copy pasta since day 1. theyre are few within the smogon who have those skills i assume.
Another thing that bugs me is the entire ban scheme, 'lets ban this, oh a new overpowered pokemon well lets ban it also" when in reality a previously banned pokemon would have been a good check to the newly banned pokemon,
Balancing the meta is not hard, its as simple as excluding legendaries and mythicals. Look at pachirisu, it completely schocked the community because they all thought it was trash, through their superior tier knowledge that smogon told them. Someone actually used the mon they loved and created a well thought out strategy.
>>26411997
But VGC is full of copypasta as well. That's not Smogon's fault.
I don't like that they made Blaziken Uber before its HA was made available
Beyond that, I don't care either way.
>>26411997
Can you go into depth more about "Smogon has the idea that stall sets are superior, which is why they ban anything that messes with stall," because that's not why most bans happen.
>>26412015
Ive never been to a vgc site, i wouldnt know, like i said its helpful, but people just tend to not want to think, and run a whole copy pasta set, most of my friends use smogon sets, smogon just seems to be the most prevelant case, im sorry, but one thing that grinds my gears is when people dont want to think for themselves and just go with the flow
>>26412023
Not that poster, but I can see why people get that idea. Hoopa-U was honestly not that hard to deal with for an offensive team, but it got banned because it was so good at breaking stall. Pokemon like Clefable and Mega Sableye can be very difficult for balance teams to deal with, but they're very popular on stall teams and they remain unbanned.
>>26411997
The only thing I agree with here is that it encourages a copypaste community. It's pretty ugly seeing people just wield well-crafted teams that others spent a while building or devised by pure innovation.
Sheddy Stall is a good example of that.
As for Pachirisu, it's not as shocking if you listened to Sejun's reasoning, since the small list of available dex mons meant there were less alternatives and less means to get around it. Pachi had an important niche. You wouldn't expect Solrock to be a valuable Pokemon in OU, for example, but it is when pressed for a Stealth Rock setter with reliable recovery that answers Talonflame and Mega Pinsir simultaneously.
>>26412049
But that is literally the case with any sort of PvP game ever. Games like Everquest and WoW lived off of that concept.
>>26411435
Stall
>>26411435
Dont care about smogon or showdown but I hate the faggots acting like its the best shit ever and that it has THE rules and everything should get changed in the acctual games according to what it dictates
Human combat is pretty unbalanced. If you have a knife and your opponent doesn't, you have the upper hand. If your opponent has a gun and you have a knife, your opponent has the upper hand. If you both have a gun, it boils down to who's better at using the gun. Taking someone out with a gun doesn't require much skill. So human combat is unbalanced.
What happens when you limit human combat to only the fists? By taking out guns and knives, suddenly this becomes something competitive that can be entertaining and fun as a sport. We can also place the contenders into an enclosed space so as to prevent the combatants from running away to simply tire out their opponent. The combatants are also equipped with proper equipment in order to keep them safe and the playing field equal.
But this is still imbalanced. A strike to the kidneys can be lethal, and that is not competitive - it's downright unfair. So in boxing, kidney shots are illegal and grounds for immediate disqualification. All players agree not to o for a kidney shot, and by doing this the playing field is now as skill-based as you can get.
So what does this mean? It means that in order for anything to be enjoyed on a competitive level, you NEED to take out the broken aspects of it. It's not a matter of "just don't let them attack your kidney". This happens in EVERY competitive game. TF2 bans crits and certain weapons, Brawl banned Meta Knight, and Smogon bans whatever they ban.
>>26412072
>what is Hippowdon
>>26412063
There are so many Pokemon that annihilate Stall that are allowed in OU. Mega Gardevoir, Manaphy, SubSeed Serperior, Taunt Talonflame, Kyurem-Black. Like Mega Mawile and Landorus-Incarnate, Hoopa-U's problem isn't that it shit on Stall, it's that it shit on everything else as well.
>>26412049
>>26412124
Not a fault of Smogon. That's bad sportsmanship. There are bad sports in VGC that copypaste (what is CHALK/what are PRIMALS) but that's not a problem with VGC.
>>26412023
As soon as you respond to everything else i posted, the only reason you ask that is because you see it as the weak spot of my post, if i takr the bait and you win it will apear to invalidate my post afterwards
>>26412063
I understand the point a bit, but Hoopa U was banned because it made stall nearly impossible to play, plus it was still barely banned, and virtually nothing could switch into it safely. There's a difference with a powerful Mon messing with stall and one that completely makes it unplayable in the first place.
Clefable and M-Sab have solid checks in OU, Hoopa U didn't.
>>26412063
>>26412134
Also that fact that Hoopa U could decimate everything else besides stall, dude had no switch ins.
>>26412128
Dude you're way to paranoid, your reply was the first one I replied too.
>>26411997
>Balancing the meta is not hard, its as simple as excluding legendaries and mythicals.
Clearly you didn't actually play VGC 14. The only legends allowed were the birds, which weren't used all that much, and it was a really badly centralized meta. Mega Kangaskhan was super OP. The only reason why it didn't look like that at worlds is because people had spent the entire season building dedicated counterteams.
> Look at pachirisu, it completely schocked the community because they all thought it was trash, through their superior tier knowledge that smogon told them.
VGC doesn't care about Smogon tiers. People were surprised by it because it's a single-stage early-game pokemon with mediocre stats. It seems hard to believe that it could be viable next to pseudo-legendaries and megas with BSTs 200 points higher.
>Someone actually used the mon they loved and created a well thought out strategy.
Nope. Not at ALL. Sejun even wrote specifically about this in the long-ass team report he published after he won. He decided to use Mega Gyarados over Mega Kangaskhan because he knew that most US players would be over-prepared for Kanga and would probably have weaker matchups against Gyarados. Amoonguss was the classic redirection support mon of the season, and as a result people were more ready to counter it as well. He was looking for a redirection Pokemon that could support Gyarados and would perform well against anti-Amoonguss strategies. Pachirisu's access to Follow Me and Volt Absorb made it a great partner for Gyarados. It used Nuzzle to spread status instead of spore, which meant it didn't care about safety goggles, taunt, or grass types, all of which were becoming common to counter Amoonguss. He didn't pick Pachirisu because it was his favorite and wanted to find a way to win with it, he picked it because he thought it would be the best meta call.
>>26412127
>>what is Hippowdon
It was for example's sake, but have you seen how much Mega Pinsir's Return does to Hippo? It's virtually a 2HKO with a Spike up, so any prior damage from even say a U-Turn out is enough to put it in range. Ada M-Pinsir at +2 can even OHKO, which is what that HO team with Azelf runs.
>>26411923
>competitive pokemon isn't luck based
>>26412212
It has luck elements, but it is not luck based. An unfortunate miss, critical, or freeze can decide a game, but those things don't always come into play.
>>26412182
Not paranoid just thinking it out, im not dying in fear that some anonymous is guna 1up me. Nice try though, trying to save face for yourself by critisizing someone else
>>26411760
>What about the tiering system is awful?
Keeping pokemon that are perfectly useable in lower tiers from being used just because their usage is too high.
BL is an awful concept because "being too good for X tier" isn't well defined at all, what makes them too good for said tier? It's not overcentralization since some pokemon have had a 30% usage rate without being banned to higher tiers, and it's not about hitting too hard or walling too many things since plenty of wallbreakers and strong walls exist in every tier.
>What are the goals are unrealistic?
Making a game that is 50% rng competitive, making every playstyle viable when Stall is incredibly good and safe on its own and will likely centralize the whole game around it unless some stupid strong wallbreaker exists.
>What about the bans are hypocritical?
They claim to try to make the game as competitive as possible, banning rng related things like moody and swagger, however stuff like paraflinch and accupressure is left rampant. It doesn't matter if they are dogshit strategies, they still rely on luck rather than skill, either ban everything or ban nothing.
I think what most smogonfags forget is that there isn't a perfect team that can take anything and everything out. It's impossible to have a counter for every possibility on one team. That's why I have multiple teams.
>if i have to put something on my team to counter, it breaks the meta
Worst excuse and it's pretty much a meme at this point.
>>26412247
O
I'm a completely different person but Ok.
>>26412263
It's more of "If I have to put a specific Pokemon on my team to counter" or "If I have to put multiple things on my team to counter." Yes, you need a physical counter to Garchomp, but you don't need multiple of a specific counter.
>>26411435
I don't entirely hate smogon, but I hate the precident that it sets in the competitive community. There are people who will go and whine and complain at people for not going by smogon rules, even though they're unofficial.
Also, they banned Greninja.
>>26411649
Uh huh. Sure u were.
>>26412287
This
There is a difference between "I should bring this Pokemon in-case another said Pokemon shows up" and "Oh god I have to carry this and this just to check this."
>>26412205
>Clearly you didn't actually play VGC 14. The only legends allowed were the birds, which weren't used all that much, and it was a really badly centralized meta. Mega Kangaskhan was super OP. The only reason why it didn't look like that at worlds is because people had spent the entire season building dedicated counterteams.
So you mean there were counters in the meta? But people actually had to figure them out? Oh wow.
>VGC doesn't care about Smogon tiers.
Ok well i wasnt responding to a vgc related question was i, this is focused on smogon.
>>Someone actually used the mon they loved and created a well thought out strategy.
>Nope. Not at ALL.
Well i was only referencing pachirisu (hence no S after "mon" implying 1 pokemon)and from what i have read he had said that he liked pachirisu and wanted to implement him in his team, i could be wrong and at this point i assume i am. But assuming he used pachirisu as a tool for a team. It still shows that there are pokemon in the meta not being utilized to their full potential, even hinting at the idea, that under utilized pokemon have a broad spectrum of potential. Copy pasta sets (even though they are helpful) promote this environment.
>>26412271
Pics or it didnt happen
>>26412257
Quagsire is usable in NU without really breaking the NU meta, that's true. That doesn't mean that usage-based still isn't the best way to tier Pokemon. Who is to decide what is and isn't usable in lower tiers?
Paraflinch isn't really rampant, this isn't gen V anymore. You also can't really ban it. Banning Iron Head/Heart Stamp + Serene Grace leaves Jirachi without any real STAB and there are ways to beat Paraflinch. Don't forget that there are only three Pokemon that can actually use ParaFlinch. One is Dunsparce, one is busy Defogging, and the last is better off checking Fairies.
Landorus-T is overused in the OverUsed tier because it's good. It does not dominate the meta, it's a very good counter to most of the physical powerhouses in the tier.
Remember early XY? The most used Pokemon were Rotom-Wash and Heatran. Not because they were overpowered, but because they could counter Talonflame.
>Acupressure
>Rampant
Don't make me laugh.
>>26412378
I'm not the person you're responding to but I have no idea what your argument is.
You said:
>Look at pachirisu, it completely schocked the community because they all thought it was trash, through their superior tier knowledge that smogon told them
Someone responded:
>Smogon tiers had nothing to do with that, it's all about Pachi's stats that made it surprising.
You responded that Smogon has everything to do with it.
Judging by your inability to form a cohesive argument, constant grammar mistakes, and >>26412387, I'm going to assume you're underage.
>>26412387
Tell me what pics you want.
no n00dz pls
>>26411968
>>26411979
>>26411983
You're still forgetting Pokémon 5 and 6.
Yeah they are. They have an accuracy of 30, accuracy improvement raises it. Idiot.
>>26411994
Wow, still dense. You really keep forgetting Pokémon 5 and 6. You really think I can't bypass that? What is skill swap?
>>26412434
Im a phoneposter with sloppy keyboarding. very well , i honestly dont want to argue anymore im wrong im sorry
>>26412440
Then show me pics of your modesty (only if u grill)
>>26412489
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Sheer_Cold_(move)
>Sheer Cold ignores all changes to accuracy and evasion stats.
Kek
>>26412489
Alright m8, come battle me. I'll even use my normal OU team instead of counterteaming you. Get on Showdown, find user Lukien.
>>26412549
Post link so we can watch.
>>26412511
>The accuracy of Sheer Cold depends on the level of the user and the level of the target and is worked out with the formula: Accuracy = [(level of user-level of target) + 30]%.
Also, it should be noted that it's not affected by ENEMY changes to accuracy and evasion, such as sand attack and double team. Your own evasion wouldn't effect it anyways, so it wouldn't make sense otherwise.
>>26412549
Nah man, fight me. I'll use my PU team. User Marrilandcom
>>26412549
I don't use showdown. Come have a real battle asswipe.
IGN Sean FC: 2509-5046-8208
>>26412577
K, just give me a few months to breed my PU team.
>>26411435
>If the answer is, "competitive Pokemon is gay", that's not a legitimate reason.
It is as long as I think VGC is gay too.
Which I do.
>>26412590
That's what I thought. All bark and no bite.
>gen 5 random battle
>rain team with swift swim
>rain team with swift swim
>rain team with swift swim
>breloom spore spam everywhere
I never made a tourneyfag team once in my life but I see why smogon is a thing, I don't know why anyone would complain about it unless you want to use said broken shit and insist it's fine
I had plenty more fun making random ass teams on showdown than on wifi because you weren't playing against the same broken crap over and over
hell, if you want to use your shitmon bros just play lower tiers and you can have them be viable
>>26412595
Dude, I literally said I would battle you.
I just need a few months to breed my team.
>>26412595
That isn't even me lol. I can battle you on cartridge, but it'll take me a minute to get a team arranged. Most of the mons I have in-game are for VGC.
FC: 0447-6303-8607
>>26412604
Ok, sure, fine. In the meantime, who wants to be bossed by the Champ?
IGN Sean FC: 2509-5046-8208
>>26412619
Remember, 6v6, k.
>>26412619
Whenever you're ready man.
>>26412623
"bossed"
Nice disconnect faggot, won't even lose with honor.
>>26412810
>Update
What are you talking about? I haven't even battled him yet.
>>26412825
Yeah I figured, and this is why I wanted to battle on showdown. You disconnect so I can't save the battle video, then claim that we never battled. Fight me again, this time I'll take a shitty video with my phone camera for proof.
>>26411482
That's not a knock against Smogon, that's a knock against the series in general.
Funny, because one of the core things Smogon's meta tries to achieve is to limit the amount of luck-based bullshit in the game.
>>26411435
>If the answer is, "competitive Pokemon is gay", that's not a legitimate reason.
competitive Pokemon is autistic
>>26411435
I have a huge issue with how their tiering system works. Since Quagsire is now OU, you cant use it in UU even though it's not even broken in UU. Not being able to use something in lower tiers because of how much it's used is just asinine.
Many of the forum's and PS's moderators are power-blinded assholes who hate being questioned for their questionable decisions and will oftentimes ban you if you call them out on it, and while a supermod or leader/admin can reverse the punishment, the mod gets no punishment for acting irrationally.
I was locked once on PS for simply being in a battle where there was spamming going on, and when I messaged the mod who locked me, his response was "I should have left," and when I went to the forums to try to appeal it, they took his side.
While there are undoubtedly several cool people in their authority positions there, it doesn't make up the many childish assholes who do the same horrible things that - when regular users do them, they get locked - but it's ok for them to judge you from their ivory tower.
Oh, let's not forget how simply asking their WiFi room how cloning is ok but hacking is not is reason enough to be banned from there.
So in short, I guess I really dont hate Smogon but I really dislike how their users practice things. But what do I know. I am just a simple merchant.
>>26411435
well where should I start
>It's heavily biased to one play style
>its not even remotely close balanced
>its lack of of complexity in ban is one of its worst flaws despite smogon insisting it makes it better.
>they ban entire game mechanics
>and limits others until they are entirely impractical to utilize
>pokemon who clearly need to be bump to a higher tier never are whe other that have no place in the tier will never go down a tier (this is due to the stupidity of basing the tier system on usage statistics rather than actual in-games stats)
>pokemon who have one completely broken build are stuck in high tiers despite all other builds being total trash
>hypocritical in their policies
>Kneejerk bans and biased voting system
>the community is full of elitist jackasses
>Top tier players who abuse strong shit keep said strong shit from being banned.
and don't even get me started with all the other shit that happens over there.
>>26412851
No, just a knock against the competitive aspects and people focusing on them, doesn't matter if it's Smogon or VGC.
>>26412825
And now you go offline so I can't even send you another challenge. God what a fag.
>>26412841
>battle me again
I'm waiting.
>>26412885
alright let's go
>>26411435
Smogonfags are literally Shingo.
>>26412885
"you cannot battle against the other party's Pokemon"
multiple times in a row. I'm using the same party I did before, so idk what you're doing.
>>26412873
>It's heavily biased to one play style
Not at all. Hyperoffense, Stall, Balance, and everything else are really on the same level.
>its not even remotely close balanced
How so? What's broken and in what tier(s)?
>its lack of of complexity in ban is one of its worst flaws despite smogon insisting it makes it better.
How is this a flaw? If Smogon were to implement complex bans as a regular thing, people would be complaining that Smogon has retarded ban policies.
>they ban entire game mechanics and limits others until they are entirely impractical to utilize
Smogon bans uncompetitive game mechanics. Please don't tell me you're seriously defending Evasion and Sleep spam.
>pokemon who clearly need to be bump to a higher tier never are whe other that have no place in the tier will never go down a tier (this is due to the stupidity of basing the tier system on usage statistics rather than actual in-games stats)
Blissey has a higher BST than Chansey. Yet Chansey is superior due to Eviolite. You cannot decide what Pokemon is better than another by simply looking at stats. Usage is the all-around best way to tier Pokemon.
>pokemon who have one completely broken build are stuck in high tiers despite all other builds being total trash
Arceus can run Protect and three empty moveslots. What's your point? You tier a Pokemon by their best set, not by their shittier, other sets.
No one's preventing you from running Whimsicott in OU, dude.
>hypocritical in their policies
How? Are you referring to Baton Pass? If you are, there was no other way to stop Baton Pass teams.
>Kneejerk bans and biased voting system
Are you going to argue with the Mega Blaziken, Mega Gengar, and Mega Salamence bans?
>the community is full of elitist jackasses
Not Smogon's fault. Verlisify exists, that does not mean VGC is flawed because of him. Please read the OP.
>Top tier players who abuse strong shit keep said strong shit from being banned.
What mons are abused by top level players?
>>26411611
Did you read up on the reasoning for those clauses before? Because they are pretty legitimate.
For evasion specifically, all Pokémon get Double Team, which turns a lot of good walls into pretty much unbreakable walls. Aerial Ace is not going to break through a Gliscor or Chansey, no matter from what Pokémon. There are a few other options, but they are generally bad (Keen Eye), or can be easily dealt with (Toxic). Evasion is just incredibly strong to the point of beinh unbalanced. And on top of that, it's not fun to play against, encourages stalling and increases the luck involved in a match.
Swagger was only banned because it removed the possibility of SwagPlay tactics, which are also just too good. Using a single SwagPlay Pokémon gives you a chance to win 1v1 against any other Pokémon of at least 45%. Since being able to at least theoretically reliably check and counter opponents is central to Pokémon, it should be obvious why this is a problem. And the odds get a lot better if you build your team around this tactic. And, again, it's stally, not fun to face and luck reliant.
Sleep is just an extremely strong status. Using a sleep move is free, at worst, since the opponent will always be asleep for one turn. Possibly, you gain a lot of free turns. Use those free turns for setup, and they can basically win you the game. Now, what is a good tactic when an opponent puts one of your Pokémon to sleep? If you stay in, you get KO'd or set up on. If you switch out, your opponent can potentially put another of your Pokémon to sleep. So what can you do to realistically deal with sleep as a player? Look at VGC to see how fun unrestricted sleep is. In any case, Game Freak were the first to introduce sleep clause in Pokémon Stadium, so Smogon just copied that, and in general I'd say it makes the game better in a competitive setting.
>>26411688
>Still using FEAR in Knock Off: the Meta
>>26411808
Have fun letting your Starly kill itself on every Ferrothorn or Garchomp with Leftovers.
>>26413145
Have fun not having fun.
>>26411997
What do you think is so bad about people who don't have good team building skills but still want to play Pokémon? After all, it's possible to be a bad team builder, but a good player and vice versa. So what is so bad about playing a team someone else built?
>People hate smogon for no reason
>Throwing around the word metagame when half of a smogonfags don't even know what they're talking about
>Telling me I can't battle with my favorite mons because they aren't in the right "tiers"
There are a lot of reasons to hate smogon.
>>26412134
Hoops-U had a ridiculous amount of checks in OU. For all playstyles to use. I think you mean counters.
>>26413374
You didn't list a single legitimate one, though.
>>26412871
>I have a huge issue with how their tiering system works. Since Quagsire is now OU, you cant use it in UU even though it's not even broken in UU. Not being able to use something in lower tiers because of how much it's used is just asinine.
But can you think of a better system, though? Because if you can, I'm sure you could make a different tier list that would be more popular than Smogon eventually.
>>26413013
>Evasion and sleep spam
Battles are battles, nigger. Unless they are hacking the game, there shouldn't be a problem (Which half of all smogon users do). Banning moves based on nothing more than "I can't beat it." Get gud.
>>26413176
I have used a FEAR Pokémon before. It's fun for the novelty, but it's not inherently more satisfying to win (or even lose) with than any other strategy, and is not even very good if your opponent knows what to expect.
>>26413222
It's so bad because it kills creativity and directs the metagame.
Wanna know something disgusting? ABR Stall, which is well-known for being stall + a Banded Weavile, got so popular among stallfags that in the most recent OU 1825 stats, 48% of Weavile were Banded. The number of players copying that team, which comprises Weavile, M-Sableye, Chansey, Skarmory, Amoonguss, and Quagsire, is what let Amoonguss and Quagsire make the final jump to OU.
So if you want to get to the bottom of what's hurting the tiering system, it's fucking copypaste teams. You should build your own teams to play -- you'll learn to get good at teambuilding. Or, team up with someone who's good at teambuilding but doesn't like to battle. Seem fair.
>>26411435
Yes because of their stall faggotry.
>>26413467
Please see >>26413064 for why evasion and sleep spam is banned. What does "battles are battles" even mean?
I'm glad I made this thread. it's proved that there aren't legitimate reasons for the Smogon hate on /vp/.
>>26413478
>Why do you hate Smogon?
>Yes
>>26413475
Or get rid of the tier system and battle like normal people, with whatever team you want.
>>26413475
>So if you want to get to the bottom of what's hurting online gaming everywhere, it's fucking copypaste teams.
Fixed
>>26411435
I just hate competitive pokemon in general.
>>26413412
Then play in OU, if you want to use quagsire. Sure, that does mean that you are also going to face OU mons, but that's the trade off
Besides, if there was no tiering system, you wouldn't be able to play quagsire at all, because he does not stck up against the 6x box legendary teams people would run. Just look at VGC.
>>26413498
I want to battle with MegaFug, it is mai waifu
>>26413498
>Mega Rayquaza
>Primal Groudon
>Primal Kyogre
>Xerneas
>E-killer Arceus
>Darkrai
Really fun, senpai.
>>26413501
Please read the OP.
People need to make up their mind as to whether
>"smogon bans anything threatening precious stall" or
>"smogon bans anything threatening precious HO"
>>26413479
You should be able to battle with whatever teams you want with whatever moves you want. Without neckbeards telling me my pokemon aren't in the right tier or that a move (implemented by the makers of the game) is not allowed to be used in the game. "Oh no, better ban swagger because confusion makes me sad."
>>26413500
Yeah I agree with you. I used to play Yu-Gi-Oh before the game got stupid and money-intensive, and part of what put me out was that there were so many netdeckers. Makes it hard to appreciate competitive play with all these leeches.
>>26413550
Tiers create balance dumbass and UU is a more strategic toer than OU or Ubers.
>>26413550
Play Anything Goes.
>>26413475
It's competitive play, though. Of course people will want to play with strong teams, and once word gets out that a certain team is particularly strong it's going to get more use. I don't really know what else you would expect. And if you are both skilled at battling and a creative team builder, you should be able to just exploit obvious metagame trends, anyway. And once word gets out how to do that, the obvious trend is not going to stay popular for much longer. That's how it is with literally all competitive games, tier systems or no.
>>26411997
>copy paste mindset
so using the same pokemon as another person is copying? So you're saying my OU Stoutland sweep team is copy paste because it includes Landorus-Therian?
>>26413566
Smogon is like the one kid playing pretend that says he's invincible and no one else can be.
>>26413523
The stall thing seems pretty recent. I remember in Gen V it was always HO, and stall was pronounced dead for a year and a half or so after XY came out. And Deoxys and Genesect were not getting banned because of precious HO, supposedly.
It's ridiculous: If you actually go to Smogon you will see that most people there dislike playing stall, and nearly everyone dislikes playing against it. Part of why it does well on the ladder is that people would rather forfeit than play hour long matches against stall teams. Yet Smogon loves stall, according to Smogon critics.
>>26413584
Why do you even play this game if you think like that? There's no fun in playing the same opponent over and over. If someone comes up with a way to beat whatever's on top, that'll get copied too. Unless you're just trying out the team, copying someone else's team to use is scummy. It's not like there's even a prize in Smogon laddering, and no one gives a shit about your bragging if you used someone else's team to get to the #1 spot. People miss the point about Pokemon being a game if they're not concerned with the experience.
>>26413747
UU and under is unpredictable so play that tier fag.
>>26413629
I know an English professor who would break your hands for typing such an atrocious responsive simile, even as a shitpost.
>>26411598
>>26411621
Abilities didn't exist back then. In gen II, there was Heal Bell, which could only be learned by four Pokémon, Sleep Talk sets and the possibility to carry a berry. Plus, Stadium always was a 3v3 game, so putting two Pokémon to sleep would be devastating for the opponent.
There was never a good reason to have such a clause in 6v6, but after gen III it is just ridiculous.
Same for most other Smogon clauses, except they didn't even originate from the games.
>>26411435
Because Smogonfags make posts like "If you hate us; why? Stop it, we're not gay, we're not!"
>Remember to think whether or not your argument has already been refuted before posting it. Or don't and allow it to be refuted.
Oh shit man, those are some fucking high stakes you're raising. Do I dare submit my post and roll these dreadful dice?
>>26413798
I'm just waiting for an argument that hasn't been refuted countless times.
>>26413779
You know you love it.
>>26413747
Yeah, things get copied, but it's a perpetual RPS situation. You need to keep the cycle going.
Playing a game for kids competitively and bitching about luck in a rng heavy turn based game then banning shit is autistic
>>26413908
Please read the OP.
>>26413768
The main reason I play this game is to make teams where underseen Pokemon can flourish, since I personally like being creative. OU is the widest pool before including box cover legends, so that's my playground of choice.
I tried playing UU before and it was interesting, but the lack of mons I like using and the lack of weather made it hard to stay.
>>26413835
I get that it's RPS and I like that no one team is always on top, but the way I see it, there are different kinds of rocks and different sizes of paper and different brands of scissors. When you tighten it into one kind of rock and one size of paper and one brand of scissors, it's shit. The Pokemon are different enough that everything has its uniqueness -- but it's a matter of laziness that I dislike.
>>26412926
Yeah and guess what Shingo only loss to Ash because of plot armor.
>>26413924
>When you tighten it into one kind of rock and one size of paper and one brand of scissors, it's shit. The Pokemon are different enough that everything has its uniqueness -- but it's a matter of laziness that I dislike.
This isn't just a matter of brands, this is a little bit more far-reaching. It's more like Rock/paper/scissors with diamond/sheets of kevlar fiber/and a chainsaw thrown into the fray.
>>26413723
The leaders and top players of smogon love stall.
>>26414025
>my computer says Scizor should have won
Can you be any more Shingo?
>>26411435
they usually cry about evasion moves being banned and stealth rocks so basic bitches
>>26414087
>takes 50% off Heracross with one Quick Attack
>implying Scizor SHOULDN'T have won
>>26414087
His scizor should of won faggot. It was faster, stronger and resisted Heracross's shitty normal moves.
>>26414122
Because evasion is objectively broken.
"Stealth Rock" isn't an argument. Are you saying that Stealth Rock is broken? There used to be an OU [No Stealth Rock] ladder and it was inundated with Sash and Dragonite.
>>26414154
>>26414163
He was using fucking false swipe and expecting to KO Heracross. Typical smogonfags trying to find excuses. You lost.
>>26411435
>Smogonfags create arbitrary rules for their own standards of "fair play"that Japs or Gamefreak have time and time again refused to acknowledge as legitimate play
>Smogonfags absolutely lose their shit when someone wants to change their perceived meta
>Smogonfags lose their minds when someone doesn't play according to their meta
>tiers.
Somgon has done everyone a favor in creating competitive builds in 'mons, but they want everyone to play their way, and not playing it means you're scum of the earth.
Fact: Gamefreak has it in their power to add rulesets into the game. The fact stands that as they haven't, then the way you should be playing should extend further than Smogon's percieved 1v1 ruleset that encourages everyone to have some arbitrary OU 'mons on their team 9 times out of 10.
>>26413381
Yeah, that was just bad wording on my part.
>>26414305
Oh shut it with your exaggerations and falsehoods.
>but they want everyone to play their way, and not playing it means you're scum of the earth
You treat Smogon like its some overreaching government. It's the playerbase that decides whether or not they play by Smogon rules. No one's forcing you to do shit. The reason it became so popular is because people WANT to play by those rules.
>Fact: Gamefreak has it in their power to add rulesets into the game. The fact stands that as they haven't, then the way you should be playing should extend further than Smogon
You know you can play different metagames on Pokemon Showdown, right? OU and down aren't the only metas. There are fun metas of the month like Volt-Turn Madness and Mega Anything and even standard Battle Spot Singles, Doubles, etc. And if it's different than Battle Spot Doubles, there's even VGC.
>>26413412
If something isnt broken in the tiers below it and it wasnt banned from those tiers then it should be allowed to be used in those tiers?
>>26411435
I don't hate the smogon rules, I'm indifferent to them. What I do hate, however, is the community.
Smogon circa 2005 was one of the worst online communities I have ever been involved with. Some of the worst elitism about pretty much everything ever, not limited to pokemon.
That being said, they also believed they were the end all be all of all things competitive pokemon (yes, including the early vgc and the official events they had before vgc)... It was just really disgusting to be around and I find it really amusing that people think "hurr they banned my bros!" is a legitimate reason to hate them.
I'm pretty sure the forum community is slightly better now but still pretty bad. I wouldn't know cause I never read their forums any more.
>>26414458
I want to add: this place is garbage too but it's a different kind of bad
>>26414305
its funny because smogon rules allow for a vastly wider amount of creativity and usable mons' than gamefreak's rules do
>>26414228
>objectively broken
Except there are 40 ways to counter it and evasion isn't even a strong strategy unless you have Minimize or Simple mons.
Your bullshit doesn't get true if you call it objective.
>>26414578
Are you trying to justify evasion with a picture of how stupidly awful it is to counter evasion?
>>26414578
This is an image showing how impossible it is to counter evasion, you fucking idiot.
>>26414664
The funny thing about this stupid graphic is that a lot of those options are perfectly valid, even with evasion clause.
And if you can't fit one or two of those onto your team in a meta where evasion is common, you deserve to get fucked.
>>26414711
>impossible
>40 fucking options
>>26414723
Name one of those that are perfectly valid. Please.
Even without the support of the image Evasion is uncompetitive. Chansey uses Minimize. Your way of beating it is now to get lucky and hit because nevermiss moves have 60 fucking base power and won't dent it.
>>26414765
>uncompetitive
What does this even mean, other than you being whiny you can't beat a fucking Chansey?
If Minimize Chansey gets so popular it fucks people up, more of them will use No Guard Machamp. Problem dealt with.
(P)hazing moves, Toxic or fast Taunt are also good options regardless of evasion being allowed. Unaware Swampert is OU now and would become even more useful.
>>26411435
I only go there for movesets and EV spreads
There's no site as convenient
>crippled weather teams
>no Moody (if it's really an issue, ban it on problem Pokemon
>no specific limits on Smeargle (should not be able to learn moves unless another Pokemon in the same tier can)
>>26412999
He is trying to use poorly injected pokemon
Because they're retarded and can't see an overpowered stallmon when it's right in front of them, they can think as in, something hits hard so it's overpowered. This has led to the complete domination of stall. And ofcourse stall being the most boring and mindless playstyle of them all, smogon has effectively ruined competitive pokemon.
>>26414922
Chansey's team will have 5 other pokemon on it. That's the fundamental strength of evasion as a tactic. You can't have just one or two counters to evasion because it's available on practically every pokemon in the game, and it only needs one stroke of bad luck to snowball out of control.
>>26411435
Smogon drones force their beliefs and rues on people.
If i wanted to have a bttle and one of my Pokes had Swagger, they'd go "NOO YOU CAN'T USE THAT MOVE!"
"Why?"
"CUZ SMOGON SAID SO!"
>>26411435
>additional clauses
It is not competitive at all, they are trying to look like they know how to play pokemon competitively with their own house rules.
If you are going to complain that evasion and sleep is the new meta, why aren't you playing the meta? It is not fun? I guess that true competitive pokemon is not for you then.
>Swagger ban
>Klefki ban
>Baton Pass ban
>Greninja ban
>Aegislash ban
>Sand Veil ban
>SS+Drizzle ban
I'm sure there's plenty more stupid things they've done but the sheep just eat it up and accept it.
>>26415213
I already told you that evasion is shit without Minimize or Simple. So no, you can't just use it with any Pokémon. Look at Battle Spot stats if you don't believe me.
You need at least two or three levels of evasion to be more likely to survive than be KO'd. And meanwhile, you're a sitting duck. Every single time. And if you thought about Baton Passing (if that move isn't completely forbidden by now) those sweet evasion boosts around, I hope you like using Drifbloom.
All this bullshit about randomness holds no meaning anyway when you're playing ladder games. Evasion, OHKO moves, hax, it all averages out over time. I see why you'd get frustrated if I wiped you whole team with Scarfed Sheer Cold Cryogonal and Fissure Dugtrio during a tournament match, but on a ladder it wouldn't matter in the grand scheme of things.
>>26415296
If I wanted to use Mega Fug versus you, would you complain?
Why? What are your grounds? Is it that Smogon said that Mega Rayquaza is too powerful?
>>26415333
The sheep have voted for these things to be banned with a 60% majority.
Klefki was never banned, dumbass.
Garchomp was banned in gen IV because permanent sand made Garchomp's checks like "just click Ice Shard xD" unreliable. In gen V it got Rough Skin, but permasand was still a thing, so it was decided to ban evasion abilities. Guess what? Evasion abilities aren't banned anymore.
You know why DrizzleSwim is broken and other weather abilities are not.
Aegislash and Greninja are cancerous to OU, the former keeping too much out of the meta and the latter having zero reliable checks.
Baton Pass was unbeatable.
Swagger is uncompetitive, and gen VI brought too many abusers to the table.
>>26415426
>Using Battle Spot as an example of anything
Battle Spot is not 6v6. That alone is reason enough not to take the format seriously.
>>26415504
>Baton Pass was unbeatable
So, it was the meta. Why did they ban the meta? Because it was not the meta they wanted?
>>26415504
>Greninja has no hard counters.
It literally dies from a pound or scratch. Greninja sucks.
>>26415504
>Why? What are your grounds?
Besides the obvious fact that it's a legendary going and mega-evolving, and the fact that you can't normally use Legends in most in-game facilities, it's generally poor sportsmanship to use a Legendary in general. Smogon has no bearing with their cancerous input on shit like that when they put non-legendaries as UBERs that I would be okay playing against outside of their pathetic barriers they call tiers.
>>26415540
>ignores everything else
>>26415504
>Battle Spot is not 6v6. That alone is reason enough not to take the format seriously.
I see, choosing which 3 (or 4 for Doubles, the intended format by GF) to bring out of a team of 6 (and what the opponent will bring) requires too much thought. You're just not able to think beyond what to lead with.
>>26415540
Because Smogon aims to create a meta that is diverse and fun to play? Because unbeatable strategies should not be allowed in any competitive format anywhere? Is this even a question?
>>26415554
Mega Rayquaza is legal in VGC. Who are you to decide what's poor sportsmanship? Mega Rayquaza is my bro, you're an asspained Smogondrone if you don't support my right to use it versus you!
>>26415557
>Equip Focus Sash
>Win
>>26415580
>Because Smogon aims to create a meta that is diverse
Wrong retard, they aim to create a meta dominated by stall. And it has succeeded in that.
>>26415580
>should not be allowed in any competitive format
>diverse and fun
This is yours and smogonfags opinions. This is why people say that "smogonfags are gay", because you don't want to accept the reality that pokemon is a broken game because pokemon are NOT balanced, instead you play a game of make-believe with your own house rules.
True competitive does not ban anything, if something is broken, good for it, survival of the fittest.
>>26415580
>Mega Rayquaza is legal! BTFO!
Holy shit, it's almost as if they made some fucking RULES that allowed it for once. Even then, they put limitations on how many legends can even be on the same team.
They didn't even allow you to have any of the legends during the 2015 VGC competitions, so saying it's legal is more or less moot when you're not even the one in control of the rules.
>>26415557
Whatever was the meta, was the meta. Banning it is basically saying "I don't know how to deal with this using my best team ever that is the epitome of balanced".
>>26415613
Stall is a legitimate playstyle. There are MULTIPLE Pokémon that threaten Stall. KyuB, Rain Dance Manaphy, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Gyarados, Mew, SubSeed Serperior. None of these are being suspected.
Want to know why Hoopa-U was banned? Not only did Hoopa-U shit on every playstyle, but it made Stall UNPLAYABLE. That is a big difference than threatening Stall. Believe it or not, you CAN play around Stall, but you are too impatient to.
Did you play in gen V? Stall was nearly dead. People complained that Smogon was biased in favor of hyperoffense. It was not. Smogon isn't biased in favor of anything.
>>26415662
>True competitive doesn't ban anything
Most competitive games have bans or restrictions on what you can and cannot use. See the example of kidney punches earlier in the thread. Just because it wasn't designed to be played competitively, does not mean you cannot play it competitively. See: Team Fortress 2.
>>26415613
Nigga, this is the first time since gen 2 that stall has been even remotely good. Every single gen was dominated by HO or balance.
>>26415333
>>26415504
It's actually not DizzleSwim anymore. All combinations of weather ability + permaweather are now banned. This is a post Gen-6 change, but it's very much the current Gen 5 ruleset.
>>26415671
>so saying it's legal is more or less moot when you're not even the one in control of the rules.
Not having active players themselves be in charge of the rules is BTW part of what characterizes any serious form of competition. Smogon is more like a kindergarten playground where they make up rules why their loss shouldn't have counted.
>>26415767
Hearthstone prize pools are growing to MOBA tier levels and the official tournament rules for that game is pretty much just Blizzard rolling with whatever is popular in the community at the time. It'd be nice if we got any form of official singles format ever from GF, but it's never going to happen, so as far as singles is concerned, Smogon is the serious competition.
>>26415822
Just play doubles as you're supposed to, if you can handle the extra thought required.
>>26415720
>Stall is a legitimate playstyle.
It can be when treated equally, as in when the biggest baddest stall mons such as Mega Sableye and Chansey are banned, since the biggest baddest offensive mons are banned. As it is now though, no it's not a legitimate playstyle, it's overpowered and always tops OU. Also none of those Pokemon you mentioned can do shit to stall.
>but it made Stall UNPLAYABLE
You must be a stall player or legitimately retarded. I don't know why stall players tell straight lies like this. Even while Hoopa U was legal, stall was still topping the tier. Wow it sure is "unplayable" having the highest win percentage in OU. Hoopa U was banned because it hurt stall in even in the slightest way. And smogon wants stall on top, which it is.
>>26415737
Wrong retard, I didn't play smogon for Gen 4, but everyone complains about Skarmbliss and the banning of Salamence and Garchomp. Clearly stall dominated smogon gen 4 as well.
>>26415847
>Doubles requiring extra thought
Anyone who plays VGC because they think Smogon Singles are overcentralized is fooling themselves.
>>26415847
Wow look at all that extra thought and creativity.
>>26415554
>it's generally poor sportsmanship to use a Legendary in general
only casual shitters think that legendaries=free win
are you a casual, anon?
I don't know shit about Smogon, but has a stupid ass name
Also the playerbase is seemingly incredibly autistic and can't take any sort of criticism about anything
>>26415941
Bad sportsmanship has nothing to do with Smogon. Please read the OP.
>>26415921
VGC is usually much more diverse, silly goose. It's just this season.
>>26415881
VGC14 was a great format. I blame ORAS on ruining the tourneys afterward.
Doesn't change the fact that doubles is a more interesting format and that the bit of balancing the game receives goes into that. Also doesn't need most (or any) of your Smogonfag rules.
And there's also Battle Spot and your own Doubles tiers. Play them, it's faster and more fun than singles.
>>26415967
Yeah it does. I don't care about your personal thread rules, it just shows the kind of autism that Smogon is made up of.
>>26415922
>Are you a casual, anon?
If you consider me openly not wanting to play WITH legends because of the casual levels of input they require in order to win, then yes, I'm a filthy casual.
Wow! Madness like this is the reason why I stopped playing competitively. It was nothing but a frustrating clusterfuck of pure autism.
>>26416008
Verlisify exists and has an obnoxious cult following. Does this mean VGC is retarded and full of furries? Is this a flaw of VGC in of itself?
Of course not. It's one retard with bad sportsmanship. That has NOTHING to do with VGC.
Thread theme.
https://youtu.be/tiGpq05tGss
>>26416047
Who and what?
I don't know anything you're talking about but you seem like a huge smogon spaz desu.
>>26415967
That's 2014, isn't it?
VGC has been enormously hit or miss. All the proto-VGC events and early VGC (until like 2011) were shit, BW brought it into a solid state it held for about another 3 years, and went back to being cancer last format and this format.
OU hasn't has a spectacular track record either, probly earning about a 3.5/6 (Gens 2, 3, 4, and XY metas being solid), but that's still better than the 4/8 at best that VGC is currently on, not even including all of the unbearably terrible VGC-style events from before 2009.
>>26416082
Verlisify is a known idiot and furry who hates Smogon because he thinks it's an institution. He worships VGC and has stated that everyone should abandon Smogon in favor of "VGC singles". VGC players hate him because he's such a bad face for the VGC community and his opinions are not indicative of the general VGC community. He's also shit at VGC.
>>26415720
>Just because it wasn't designed to be played competitively, does not mean you cannot play it competitively.
Did you even read? I said that pokemon is broken. And that doesn't make it less competitive, it just means that it rewards less the player that spends a lot of time training. Smogonfags wants to see deepness in a game that is actually very shallow, they don't want to accept that their favorite game is actually just a bunch of legendaries and pseudos spamming attacks.
>>26416100
2015. Seniors was much more interesting to watch that year.
Kinda telling that the event mon given out at this world championship (like Arash's Mamoswine or Sejun's Pachirisu) is for once not based on a Masters mon, but the Seniors winner's Machamp.
>>26416160
Using Seniors to gauge the health of VGC is like watching little league games to check out how the Mets are doing this season.
>>26416100
No, that's 2015. 2014 was fucking great. That was Se Jun Park vs. Jeudy Azarelli and Nikolai Zielinski vs Mark "Machampion" McQuillan and I don't remember who won Juniors but I seem to recall that London Swan lost and that's always nice.
>>26416024
Are you really saying all legendaries make it easy to win? Most of them do the opposite.
>>26416282
I hope when Moon and Sun come out VGC gets good again, since there will be all new Pokes and items to try out.
I got this a while ago and I thought it seemed appropriate for this
>>26415662
>True competitive does not ban anything
literally every competitive game i've played has restrictions on stuff. Official or not.
>>26416463
He never said ALL, and yes, a team with legendaries will almost always beat a team without.
>>26415967
>Bad sportsmanship has nothing to do with Smogon
Just like watching mlp has nothing to do with furries, right?
>>26411435
competitive Pokemon is gay
>>26418498
The context is different and you know it.
Verlisify has a cult following, yet not al VGCfags are Verlisifyfags. Most VGC players are chill.
Every single competitive league has a vocal minority that gives it a bad rap.
>>26418542
You're gay!
>>26418556
Indeed I am, for you.
