ITT: Moves with too much distribution
>>26401805
Pretty much every Pokemon has too much coverage at this point.
Ice Beam/Blizzard
Stealth Rock
Knock Off
U-Turn
Scald
Swords Dance
Scald and Stealth Rock are the two that come to mind first. I don't mind Stealth Rock, I just wish the pool of stuff able to use it was more restricted.
talk sick
>>26401822
I think Gamefreak is aware of this problem; I think this is why they have started nerfing moves like Flamethrower, Ice Beam, etc.
Honestly I hope they get bolder with balance changes like nerfing moves, buffing BST of older monsters and stuff like that.
Toxic, scald, t-wave.
Toxic isn't too bad but it's wide distribution really overshadows some poison types.
Scald is bad but at least you can guess what has it (water types)
T-wave seems to be fucking everywhere and it's the most annoying move. Should be banned.
The idea that every pokemon deserves to learn Toxic and Double Team is disgusting.
Tackle
>>26401918
I forgot about Double Team. Why the shit does everything learn it?
Stealth Rock; Game Freak's biggest mistake was making a TM and tutor move, and letting shit like Chansey learn it.
Sticky Web is balanced by the fact that everything that gets it is a shitmon. If Stealth Rock's distribution was similarly limited, it wouldn't be as broken as it is.
>>26401884
I feel like eventually all status conditions will last only 2-5 turns.
>>26401822
That's why grass is the best type.
>>26401805
>ctrl f
>no protect
>>26401938
>No stealth rock tm or tutor
>Steelix hits OU
When?
You know you goofed when the pokemon who shares their type with a move are the main/best users of it.
>Toxic
>Protect
>Double Team
>Thunder Wave
>Stealth Rock
>>26401938
At the beginning of BW the only Stealth Rock mons that were legal in VGC and Smogon were Steelix's line, Golem's line, Gigalith's line, and Crustle's line because imported mons weren't legal and there were no other ways to learn it in BW.
It was pretty nice.
>>26401992
Aren't, you mean? At least part ice water types can't use scald
>>26401985
We had a similar situation in early XY. It was mostly stuff like Mamoswine rising to OU due to SR's low distribution.
Also, if anything, Aggron rises. Steelix is an utter shitmon.
>>26402020
>VGC
Like SR is even a thing in VGC regardless. We need a way to get that shit out of Singles.
>>26402036
Yeah I meant aren't. My bad.
Speaking of scald
>emboar randomly has scald access.
>>26401850
I'd disagree with knock off. Any pokemon can do that
>>26402051
i kind of agree with this but they need to drop it's power down to fucking 40bp and make it remove mega stones.
>>26402049
He's a fire type, scald is basically a water/Fire move
Seismic Toss, namely on Chansey/Blissey
>>26402105
What the fuck else would they attack with? It was put there so they could at least do a little damage
>>26401805
Tackle, Scratch, Pound, Growl, Leer Vine Whip, Absorb, Sludge, Ember, Peck, Gust, Water Gun, Leech Life, Thundershock, Sand Tomb, Karate Chop, Confusion, Rock Throw, Astonish, Dragon Breath, Dragon Rage, Metal Claw, Bite, Hidden Power, Hyper Beam, Protect, Frustration, Return, Focus Blast, Giga Impact, Swords Dance, Substitute
>toxic is a death sentence if not treated
>fucking everything can get it
>>26401884
Underated post
Too Much Distribution:
Swagger
Double Team
Substitute
Attract (WHY THE HELL DO GENDERLESS POKEMEN LEARN IT?!?)
Volt Switch
U-Turn
Not Enough Distribution:
Power Gem
Freeze Dry
Memento (Actually, Suicide moves in general, they're funny and interesting)
Parting Shot
Weather Ball
Moves that shouldn't exist at all:
Dark Void
Toxis needs to be removed from the TM.
>>26402469
>Parting Shot
>Weather Ball
Can signature moves stay signature?
>>26402882
That's adorable, anon.
>>26402076
>Scizor now is the best knock off user of all
>>26402051
>Clamperl
>>26402076
Just make it 20 BP when not used by a dark type and the current setup when it is.
>>26402469 Add nasty plot to not enough distribution. It's meant to be a special counterpart to swords dance, yet swords dance has much better distribution among physical attackers.
>>26403281
That's actually done for a reason, I feel. Special Attack isn't just "physical Attack, but not." The two stats also have different characteristics. Phys Attack is the high risk, high reward stat. You have your better boost moves, your higher BP moves, your tendency for higher base Attack than Special Attack among sweepers. But you also have Intimidate, burn, confusion, Foul Play, weaker accuracy overall, more contact moves.
Special Attack, on the other hand, is weaker in general, but far more reliable.
>>26403553
Weaker accuracy? One of the reasons attack is so dominant is because it has better accuracy for stronger moves.
>>26402882
>blaze kick
>muddy water
>leaf blade
>pay day
>aura sphere
>milk drink
>bonemerang
>slack off
>Spacial Rend
>Roar of Time
And many more. Starting off as a signature move doesn't mean it's immune.
>>26402987
>Clamperl can't learn knock off
>>26403754
I'll never not be upset about Spore. It's the only thing that piece of shit Parasect had going for him.
>>26403553
>Physical attack s weak to burns
Special attack worries about pink blobs
>Physical attack has less accuracy
What about Blizzard, Thunder, Focus Blast, Fire Blast, Hydro Pump, Zap Cannon, Inferno, and Hurricane? Now compare those to Earthquake, Return/Frustration, Brave Bird, Knock Off, Extreme Speed, Close combat, and Outrage. Which one looks like it's more accurate now?
Physical isn't high-risk, Special is high-risk, high reward.
>>26403583
Stone Edge and Megahorn are notably bad. It's worth pointing out, as well, that there is no set of no-downside strong-BP potential-beneficial-effect moves for physical attackers such as the various Boltbeam moves special attackers have. Instead, nearly all the high BP physical moves either have recoil, lock the user in, have terrible accuracy, or result in the user's KO. Earthquake and Return, of course, being pretty much the only exceptions.
I'll also preempt anyone attempting to use Knock Off to argue for good, no drawback physical moves by countering with Scald. Broken shit exists on both sides. It is the exception, not the generalization.
>>26401805
>>26401901
Thunder wave would be fine if it just dropped speed
or if the chance of immobility was lower like 10% or so
>>26403845
Megahorn is only as bad as Fire Blast(with more power now, too) and neither are as bad as Focus Miss, Thunder, and Blizzard. You'd have been better off using, as I recall, the only physical equivalent in Gunk Shot. Close Combat, High Jump Kick, Flare Blitz, etc. are all vastly superior to the special equivalents as well as the beams because those downsides are way better than spotty accuracy and the raw power easily outweighs the reliability of beams. If special wants high power and high accuracy, it has to deal with a sharp special attack drop, reducing them to setup fodder in a bad scenario. Not only that, they STILL don't get perfect accuracy for it, but at least it's slightly stronger than Close Combat and friends.
>>26403845
>says that Knock Off is broken
>forgets that eviolite Chansey is a thing
i really hate that everyone and their moms can learn earthquake
renders electric type useless
>>26403939
I really hate that Bolt Strike and Volt Tackle are stuck as signature moves, making physical Electric types extra-uselss.
>>26403939
renders SLOW electric types useless
>>26403969
Why the fuck did they give Electric Double-Edge to a yellow mouse?
>>26402469
>Dark Void
if they changed its accuracy to 70% and made it so it only hits 1 target and not every opposing pokemon, then I'd allow it
Until then, Darkrai will forever be one of the scummiest pokemon ever because of that damn move
>>26404066
the accuracy is less of a problem than the fact that it hits both targets in a double battle
>>26404066
>legendary signature move
>loses its gimmick as well as having lower accuracy than sleep powder
If it only hits one target, the accuracy should be increased to 100%.
>>26404093
no way 80% accuracy is good enough
>>26402096
But why is he the only Fire type besides Volcanion (which didn't exist in Gen V) that gets the move?
>>26404145
If it remains an attack able to hit both targets, yes. Were it changed to only hit one there is no reason it should miss.
>>26403939
Like Knock Off, Crunch and Sucker Punch, being a Psychic or Ghost glass cannon sucks.
>>26404195
>Being a ghost glass cannon suck
>Inplying Gengar isn't amazing
>>26404251
And it is, but fuck Dark types.
>>26404258
As someone who loves Dark types, nah.
Counters are fine. At least Sucker Punch involves a mild mind game where I could get a free switch or status for predicting it.
>>26402882
Weather ball isn't unique, anon. Hasn't been in years
>>26404093
How about make it hit everyone on the field with 70% Accuracy. Everyone including teammates.
That every Water type can learn Ice Beam makes Ice types pointless
I hate the distribution of Shadow Ball. It seems like it's reason for existence to give normal and psychic types a way to screw ghosts over.Shadow Claw is annoying too
>oh fuck we have to give literally every pokemon earth quake or fire blast because we made steel resist too many types and it hard walls most pokemon's dual STABs
>>26401805
T wave, but since the most annoying users are electric types who should learn it anyway, I don't care.
Toxic is honestly fine, it stops walling in the game, so I could care less. It also means games won't turn into 40 minute monster mashes.
Double team would be fine if it were limited to two or three stage ups, but as it isn't, it needs to go.
Stealth rock.
I'd say swords dance, but the number of pokemon that get it is fine, the pokemon that get it isn't. Shedinja should get it, yes. Spattakers with 40 atk? No.
Volt switch, but again, everything that gets it is electric.
Attract, but only if they don't fix the functionality problem for pokemon like Cryogonal. Go on gamefreak, make a grumpy special snowflake that attracts everything, it's a net user's wet dream.
Other than that, yeah, everything is fine. Most complaints usually come from moves given to mons of certain types to at least have a fighting chance against other mons that would completely floor them. I like a good shedinja style wall strategy, but if it were done with any other pokemon, it'd be broken as fuck. Think of Gen 3/4 Funbro.
>>26404572
>hey this pokemon has a big body let's give it surf xD
>b-but its a rock t--
>FUCK IT IT GETS SURF
>but it lives in the mounta--
>WHAT DID I JUST SAY????
>Okay. fine I hear you. So thats Chanse-
>The fuck are you doing? Why would Chansey get Surf are you dumb??????? There's not even water near the Safari zone
>>26403806
physical attacks have high-power with high drawbacks (recoil, general stat decreasing) Special attacks have more direct consequences (Accuracy, recharge, damage stat decreases) but also tend to have more effects added on (Paralysis, Flinch)
There is an entire class of attacks with 120BP + 70% accuracy and a 30% status effect chance. But theyre shaky to actually connect, have very very few uses, and due to both those, the actual chance of doing anything with the side effects is minimal.
Whereas Close Combat lowers your defenses, brave bird deals a lot of damage to you, etc., most high BP physical attacks still have 100% accuracy.
And then you get special cases like Head Smash, but even THAT is 80%.
Aside from DynamicPunch, there are almost no physical damaging moves that have less than 85% accuracy and very few special attacks above 80BP that have perfect accuracy
>>26405090
tl;dr, Phys tends to be binary and stat checks, special attacks tend to affect the battle in more ways than just damage and be much more RNG
>>26401901
Toxic has wide distribution because it's not a "poison" move, it's a "secret ninja technique".
>>26401956
can ice be the best pokemon type for a lil pls
>give fairy Poison weakness in an attempt to buff poison types
>every fairy learns Psychic
Fuck Psychic.
>>26401805
Twave
Scald
Toxic
Stealth Rock
Ice Beam (esp Water types)
More grass moves need to bee more heavily distributed though
>>26405100
Almost all Rock type moves all have sub 95% accuracy.
Thunder and Blizzard can be used under weather for 100% chance and are 110 BP now.
Kaiju/monster based (lots of Gen 1) have access to things like Surf despite being Ground/Rock/Steel
>>26401805
Toxic
Protect
Knock Off
Swords Dance
Stealth Rock
Ice Beam
Blizzard
probably more I'm not thinking of. Toxic is the worst offender.
>>26404088
it hits 3 targets in triple battle
Here's a fix for Toxic. Make it 100% accuracy, but only poison Pokemon can badly poison with it. Any other Pokemon that uses it will only do normal poison.
>>26405488
no nevar
>>26405604
Fairy is broken because Steel and Poison are shit offensive types with shit moves with shit distribution.
It'd be like making a type that was only weak to Bug in Gen 1.
Oh waitFairy is only a slight bit less broken than Gen 1 Psychic/Normal. It needs a nerfing so bad. 4Drag2Mag and weather wars are better than le faggy type
>>26405796
Normal poison is better than badly poison unless used on a stall-mon with no way to heal status. Even then, it's arguable, because they could just switch and reset the toxic counter.
Toxic being 50% accurate, TRIPLING in power every time instead of doubling, and being 100% accurate when used by a Poison type would be a genuinely good buff to a bad type and a good nerf to a good move.
>>26404153
Because he looks vaguely like a kettle
Just kidding, it's a Journey to the West reference. The pig is capable of breathing fire. At one point the pig drinks a shit ton of water and spews boiling water. Not sure how that works exactly but he can do it.
>>26405488
Well not necessarily best type, but Ice was one of the best types in Gen I. If the actual pokemon were better (they're still pretty good, mind), maybe it might have been the best?
>>26405925
I mean for the move itself I feel like 75%, 80% at best would be a good enough nerf
Toxic should only be able to badly poison when used by Poison types. For everyone else it's just regular poison. There, now Poison sucks less.
>>26401805
Tyranitar learns it
Aagron Learns it
FUCKING REGIROCK LEARN IT
>>26401932
>>26401901
Toxic and Doubleteam are super ninjas technique.
I think they need to stop existin as TMs
>>26402121
That's just the problem; they're the bulkiest sacks of shit in the game. At least with Seismic Toss gone a lot more Pokemon could safely set up on it and not just die to Toxic/TWave+ST+ Softboiled spam.
>>26406201
THIS yes please.
Same with Freezing and Ice moves.
Ice ttype +20 % To freeze oponent with freezing moves
