Retconning
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You are currently reading a thread in /vp/ - Pokemon
You are currently reading a thread in /vp/ - Pokemon
Why can't Gamefreak make up its mind about retconning?
They can change a pokemon's type in a new gen
They retcon movesets every generation
Yet changing evolutionary methods is taboo.
Stop giving us stupid ways to evolve old pokemon.
There's no reason to, other than to appease autists. There's always room for Mossy and Icy rocks.
>>26390956
There was room in your mom
>>26390932
Feebas would like to request an audience with you, anon.
>>26390956
we also get dozens of useless items that only work for one specific pokemon
>>26390932
>>26391005
Eeveeloutions don't get retconed. Feebas and other Pokemon will.
>New evolution for a Pokemon
>It's a trade evolution
Great, I love Pokemon I'll never get to use
If you change Leafeon, you have to change Glaceon. And that means introducing an Ice Stone, for no other reason but to evolve one Pokemon.
>>26390932
>Trade w/ luminous moss for leafeon
>Trade w/ Snowball for glaceon
Fixed
>>26391092
So they make some new Pokemon that use it.
Like some of the other useless items. They totally dropped the ball on stuff like that after gen two.
speaking of retcon don't forget they gave some random pokemon like 10 extra base stat in XY for some reason
why can't we get more of that shit? maybe even some bigger stat changes to boost some shitmon out of the gutter
>>26391115
Alternatively they could stop with the power creep
Not making Mega Rayquaza would help
>>26391092
Level up once holding a nevermelt ice
>>26391092
Introduce an ice stone, get rid of:
dawn stone
dusk stone
shiny stone
reaper cloth
electirizer
etc.
>>26390932
I want them to retcon. But there's a reason they don't do it, and it's to prevent logic loops like, "If my Eevee can evolve with a Leaf Stone in Sun, how come I couldn't do it in Red?!?!?" I appreciate that they try to provide an excuse for the sake of deepest lore.
I want them to retcon this shit anyway though; I just would prefer that they take all the pent up need for retconning and do it all at once in one generation.
Things like needing a hold item to breed baby pokémon? That's gotta go. They need to trim down the amount of unnecessary items. Like trading an Onix with a Metal Coat can stay because that makes sense, but why do Spritzee and Swirlix need that? For items that ONLY evolve THEM and have no other function or purpose?
>>26390932
No. I hate retcons.
>>26391242
>>26391250
I'd appreciate it too if they didn't pull the "lol alternate dimensions" bullshit in oras I mean what the hell
I would prefer Espeon and Umbreon to keep their current evolution methods, but it's interesting to note that every eeveelution past gen 2 could still evolve with a stone.
>espeon, sun stone
>umbreon, moon stone
>leafeon, leaf stone
>glaceon, dawn stone
>sylveon, shiny stone
>>26390956
Except in HG/SS, which was the generation they debuted in.
>>26391242
Well they break that logic anyways by introducing new moves and new types
>Why can't my Blastoise learn Aqua Tail in Red?
>Why isn't my Gardevoir fairy type in Ruby?
>>26391242
Why did my clefable in Red get hurt by fighting types and now it shrugs them off in X and Y????
Seriously, did all previous normals-turned-fairy just pretend to be retarded for 20 years?
>>26391349
Your posts are so pathetic to read.
Nidorina and Nidoqueen being unable do breed was clearly an error back in gen II. They could have retconned this in gen III, but they choose to keep this stupid thing and Nidoking can't fuck his wife and need to breed with his children. Why the hell they doesn't change Nidorina and Nidoqueen's egg group?
>>26391361
>>26390932
>Nidoqueen and Nidorina can be bred at daycare
>Gardevoir is in the human-like Egg Group
>Latias' hidden ability is now Illusion
>>26391335
>>26391349
Yeah they're pretty choosy about their logic there.
At the same time I can kinda understand why they don't wanna reton things more than they need to. Imagine if you were playing a new game waiting for your eevee to evolve into espeon, because you were unaware they changed the evolution method. That's why I want them to make all these changes all at once.
>>26391349
This is the most retarded thing I have read today.
>>26391196
>how will I evolve this Electabuzz
>Oh, I know, with an ice stone
Dusk Stone and Dawn stone are fine anyway.
>>26391398
>>26391410
>>26391288
Game freak been talking about parallel universes and etc, since the beginning of Pokémon.
>>26391437
>another dimension
>parallel universe
Not even slightly the same thing, anon.
>>26391428
>how will I evolve this Electabuzz
Through normal leveling
>>26391415
How so?
>>26391409
>Gardevoir is in the human-like Egg Group
The Pokédex explain why Gardevoir isn't in the human-like Egg (Group).
>>26391080
You could just ask for someone to help you evolve it, anon-kun.
Gimmick evolutions are the worst, followed closely by trade evolutions. All mons should evolve through level-up or stones.
>>26391445
or the thunder stone
>>26391093
this is worse
>>26391428
>>26391196
Have them all be like a combination of Razor Fang/Claw and Deep Sea Tooth/Scale, having an effect but only for its specific Pokemon while letting them evolve while holding it
>Electirizer boosts Electabuzz's Speed
>Magmarizer boosts Magmar's Special Attack
>Upgrade boosts Porygon's Special Defense
>Dubious Disk boosts Porygon2's Special Attack
>Prism Scale boosts Feebas' Special Defense
>Protector boosts Rhydon's Defense
>Reaper Cloth boosts Dusclops' Special Defense
>Sachet boosts Spritzee's evasion
>Whipped Dream restores 1/16th of Swirlix's HP each turn
>>26391488
At least learn proper grammar, Richard.
Those types did not exist prior, that stone did
Pretty clear difference
>>26391521
Half those would be severely outclassed by the fact that Eviolite exists.
>>26391444
In Pokémon.
A parallel universe and a parallel dimension are the samething.
>>26391555
Rotom
>>26391564
Palkia can't fuck with other dimensions. That's the whole point of Giratina.
>>26391558
Right, just like how no one uses Razor Claw and Razor Fang, but no one complains they exist, along with Oval Stone.
It's making them slightly more useful and infinitely more convenient.
>>26391409
>Nidoqueen and Nidorina can be bred at daycare
This.
It has always made zero sense to me that they can't breed. It wouldn't even really change the game at all, but it would make this one stupid situation cease to exist.
>>26391568
>>26391564
Dimensions aren't actually locations.
Dimensions are length, width, and depth.
>>26391509
I wonder how many people here used trade mons back in gens 1-3. I wish they would have alternate ways to evolve them with the catch being it'll be harder/take longer if you don't trade
>>26391581
In Pokémon. parallel universes = parallel dimensions.
>>26391573
People use razor fang and King's Rock for fling pickup doubles teams sometimes. I used it for a while on a Skill Link Minccino.
I even used a Razor Claw on Critdra because I didn't have a scope lens.
>>26390956
I'd like to see how GF thinks he can place the Icy Rock in Aloha Region
>>26391584
Yeah, I would be fine with something like Kadabra either being able to evolve at any point when traded, but has to get to like level 50 to evolve normally.
>>26391579
Alright, thanks for showing me the other world in Pokemon but that doesn't have anything to do with alternate universes at all still.
>>26391600
Or requiring a special item to use that you won't get until much later and/or is fairly rare
>>26391593
This
>>26391564
nor this
>>26391437
nor this
>>26391579
Ever say that universe = dimension.
>>26391196
Ice Stone ia regular ice stupid
>>26391617
Yeah, that would be perfectly fine, like it could only evolve holding Twisted Spoon.
Or, like Piloswine, it has to know Psychic and level up to evolve into Alakazam.
>>26391428
They're severely redundant since Moon and Sun stones exist.
>>26391521
It's kind of like what Clamperl's evo items do.
>>26391618
It's another name for universe.
>>26391682
According to none of the things that you have posted.
>>26391288
>I'd appreciate it too if they didn't pull the "lol alternate dimensions" bullshit in oras I mean what the hell
What's this about, I've heard it a few times but I never finished ORAS
>>26391642
Yeah, that's what Deep Sea Tooth/Scale are.
>>26391488
That doesn't explain anything
>>26391691
Multiple universes have been hypothesized in cosmology, physics, astronomy, religion, philosophy, transpersonal psychology, and literature, particularly in science fiction and fantasy. In these contexts, parallel universes are also called "alternate universes", "quantum universes", "interpenetrating dimensions", "parallel dimensions", "parallel worlds", "alternate realities", "alternate timelines", and "dimensional planes".
>>26391682
Not in real life, and apparently, not in Pokemon, based on your examples.
Protip: posting Pokedex entries that mention "world" or "dimension" do nothing to reinforce your point.
You have to find an entry that uses them interchangeably. Which you won't be able to find.
"Parallel universe" is a very specific concept used almost only in fiction. "Parallel dimension" is a concept used solely in fiction, because that's not an actual concept.
>>26391724
We're talking about Pokémon, remember.
>>26391709
I'm not a member of Game freak staff.
>>26391080
Fucking this. I've always wanted Gengar
>>26391737
I'm well aware, you keep repeating that while posting examples that do not support your case.
>>26391598
theres snow on occasion in hawaii. if its not on a mountain itll be in a cave.
>>26391598
>Implying it won't be in a freezer in an ice cream parlor, next to the fridge for the Rotom form and filled with Vanniluxe
>>26391306
And you can't get Espeon or Umbreon in FRLG. The issue was fixed.
This is a non issue.
>>26391772
parallel universes are also called "alternate universes", "quantum universes", "interpenetrating dimensions", "parallel dimensions", "parallel worlds", "alternate realities", "alternate timelines", and "dimensional planes".
>>26391844
>>26391716
Where was this in the game?
>>26391598
jeez senpai, i don't know
>>26391844
Across media, yeah.
In Pokemon, when Zianna is talking about alternate timeline stuff, she isn't interchangably using it with any of the language referring to Giratina, Palkia, or Bronzong because what they do is mutually exclusive.
>>26391809
Yes you can
>>26391724
>"Parallel universe" is a very specific concept used almost only in fiction. "Parallel dimension" is a concept used solely in fiction, because that's not an actual concept.
You are aware that the two are interchangeable in most fiction right?
What you're thinking of is pocket dimensions.
>>26391897
Not unless you have the GC games or RSE.
>>26391809
One thing has nothing to do with the other you idiot.
There was no reason that they couldn't have added location bases evos in HGSS.
>>26391899
Dimension is like going up/down, left/right, etc but on an axis that humans can't perceive. Another universe is shit like going from the anime to one of the games.
>Pokemon could learn Ancientpower in Gen III didn't evolve from it
Literally a retcon in evolution trigger
>>26390932
Rather than retconning evolutions they should retcon babies so they don't need an item to get them, just treat the prevo like the new first form of the line.
>>26391950
No retcon.
Scrap everything. Complete reboot of Pokémon changing everything from typing, battle mechanics, designs, evolutionary conditions.
>>26391005
Yeah Feebas. Of course. That's one Pokémon that has been when there's a shit ton who haven't. And Feebas was only because they were literally forced to because no Beauty stat.
>>26391697
It's in delta episode, spoilers ahead:
The dragon clans modern inheriting prophet, zinnia, claims that by sending an impending meteor strike away using inter dimensional technology, they all may as well be cashing a death check for another universe, and then proceeds to romanticize about said universe by imagining it as one without mega evolution, something to the effect of "where the path of Pokemon evolution occurred differently" which simultaneously adds depth to pokemon's overall lore given the space time concepts they toyed with in DPPt, and retconning the reason why you're playing a remake of a region which previously never had Megas
The important distinction if I understand the metaphysics here is that a dimension is like a "realm", it's almost like a "layer" that exists simultaneously with our own world, but is otherwise inaccessible without great power. A universe is an entirely different section, imagine universes as the atoms in a visual model of a compound atom: the big balls, or each individual atom, are universes, with layers of perceivable dimensions within them, and are connected either weak or strong by unknown forces
That's my best crack at it anywayalso I'm taking a shit right now and it feels so good squeezing out
There's SO many things that they need to retcon that I wish they'd just put away their pride and do it. Types for certain pokemon, evolutions for certain pokemon, and if a pokemon should be special or not. This "new" evolution thing gets old when it becomes tedious, especially for someone who wants a full living dex.
>>26391866
>alternate realitiy?
>>26391896
I said, we been knew parallel universes and etc, since the beginning of Pokémon.
I didn't say Zianna was talking about other Pokémon from parallel universes and etc.
>>26391242
>be me
>about to try for our first kid with my lovely wife
>I finish and she smiles at me, whispering "I love yo-" into my ear with slight interruption
>look are her to see what's wrong
>pure rage in her face
>"You forgot to burn the incense!" she screams
>9 months later my wife has another me, same height, weight, and everything.
How fucked am I?
>>26391973
>I would rather pokemon be completely useless rather than have a small retcon that would properly integrate them into the games.
That is some hardcore autism you got there.
>>26392119
Pokémon is perfect as it.
There is no need to retcon.
>>26392136
ah, shitposting then
>>26392149
I'm not. I'm serious about this.
Pokémon is perfect as it.
Gamefreak created Pokémon.
They are God. Their Universe.
Their rules.
>>26391444
>another dimension
New galaxy
You cucks are asking way too much out of a damn children's game.
>>26392294
I have no significant other to lose to someone else.
>>26392294
You'd better hope I'm not a cuck.
>>26392294
Actually, It's for all ages.
The only retcon they couldn't get away with is combining the Nidoran Male and Female slots on the dex, because they'd either have to wedge one lone new Pokemon into it's place, or every single Pokemon introduced after that family would move down a slot which would trigger hyper-autistic kids everywhere.
Aside from that, I'm game for everything.
>Let Leafeon and Glaceon evolve with the Leaf and Dawn stones (or a new stone)
>Add a Kangaskhan baby (the fact they didn't do this way back in Gen II is criminal)
>Get rid of Incense requirements for all babies - breeding should yield the lowest Pokemon in the family no matter what
>Fix the Nidoqueen lines breeding problem
That's just off the top of my head for 'realistic' ones. If I had it my way, I'd say "fuck you" to fan autism and go much deeper - Pokemon like Exeggutor that can apparently reproduce asexually, would have means to do so. Slowpoke's evolution criteria would be changed so that it's similar to Mantyke. Some kind of new evolution method would get introduced for Diglett and Magnemite, and whilst they're at it they could redo all in-game and Pokedex mentions of Cubone's skull so that it makes some kind of sense.
Notice how pretty much all the problems, bar the incense problem, spawn from Gen I Pokemon, and things that could have been fixed in Gen II or III but didn't. Game Freak seriously had no fucking clue what they were doing before the GBA era came around.
>>26392294
>streamlining convoluted mechanics is "asking too much" for a children's game
How many children do you think will pick up SuMo as their first game, see a Lax incense and go "Oh golly, if I put this on my Snorlax, it'll probably make a different pokemon at the daycare!"?
>>26391934
But anon, another dimension in that sense can't be parallel because it must be mutually orthogonal to all the others :^)
You're being silly, it's perfectly okay to assume "parallel dimension" is being used to mean some kind of alternate reality or universe, as that is how it is most commonly used in fiction.
The other anon is right, "universe" and "dimension" in this context are often used interchangeably in fiction.
>>26392383
So why do Giratina and Palkia exist as different beings?
>>26392366
>Let Leafeon and Glaceon evolve with the Leaf and Dawn stones?
No. The Pokédex explain why Eeeve evolve and etc
>>26392366
>Game Freak seriously had no fucking clue what they were doing before the GBA era came around.
And…now they do?
>>26392398
>>26392451
Shit, why not have both?
It just seems dumb to me that giving a Fire Stone makes Flareon, Thunder Stone makes Jolteon etc. but Leaf Stone doesn't make Leafeon. I mean, I've gotten over it, and I don't mind the environment stones, but I can only imagine how retarded it seems from a kids point of view that X amount of stones can evolve Eevee but Leafeon isn't achieved through Leaf Stone. It couldn't hurt them to put that in there as an alt method of evolution
>>26392513
Ok but remember that the Pokédex Never said that Eevee will evolve with every evolutionary stones.
>>26391760
>that offline trade on D/P/Pt where you get a Haunter holding an EVERSTONE
Never before have I been so mad in Pokemon.
>Pokemon must be involved in some kind of trade to evolve
Fuck this stupid shitty feature.
>>26390932
>Nidoran no longer two Pokemon
>Evolution is still gender dependent
>Make Kangaskhan a two stage Pokemon
Why is this so hard?
>>26393058
Gotta sell both those versions, and it promotes connectivity. Sorry you have no friends
>>26391760
Just do online trade for a Haunter for a Haunter, there are normally a few trades on there, if not set yours for trade for a Haunter through GTS
>>26391428
Evolve him with lightning stone, duh
>>26391564
You're retarded, and the picture you provided as proof for your cause just proves my point.
another dimension and a parallel universe are not the same thing.
being from a spatial dimension parallel to ours, means from a parallel universe, not from another dimension,
it's from the same dimension, just a parallel universe.
>>26393652
>>26391564
Also, a parallel universe and a parallel dimension are not the same thing, not in the real life, and not in the pokemon, based on the image you tried to provide as proof.
>>26391716
nigga you dum
>>26391844
Yes,... and?
I thought you were trying to make a case here.
you just proved yourself wrong and I don't think you even realize it.
>>26391934
a fourth dimension of reality is basically the same as alternate universes,
the best way for me to explain this to you.
A square, has 2 dimensions, width and height, X and Y, but it doesn't have a Z value,
if it did have a Z value, it would be 0.00....1
0.0 followed by an infinite amount of 0's, followed by a 1 after the infinite amount of 0's
to where mathematically we can prove that it = 0, now a 3D shape, that has a X,Y,and Z,
how many 2D shapes can go to build the 3D shape, an inanimate amount, since they are all technically 0 in Z value. they all exist in the same space, meaning there is an infinite amount of them in the 3D shape,
same as a 4D shape, but this time it's not stacking 2D shapes on each other, it's stackin 3D shapes on each other, 3D worlds, stacking on top of each other, infinitely.
>>26391368
I like the idea that Nidokings are just lolicons.
>>26390932
Leafeon>Vaporeon>Espeon>UmbreonGlaceon>Jolteon>Flareon>
>>26393371
You'd think they'd have done the Nidoran thing in Gen 4 when they allowed Pokemon of the same species to look different for various reasons.
>>26390932
>>26391092
Espeon=Sun Stone
Umbreon=Moon Stone
Leafeon=Leaf Stone
Glaceon=Dawn Stone
Sylveon=Shiny Stone
>>26391724
>You have to find an entry that uses them interchangeably.
You mean like >>26391437 ?
>>26391136
Legendaries hardly matter anyway.
If you play Smogon, they are mostly banned, anyway.
If you play VGC, they are more manageable and the rules always go regional dex, full dex, full dex with legendaries anyway, so you get two years without them every gen at least.
If you just play casually, what do you care about game balance, anyway? Just tell your friends “no legends“.
>>26392451
> Hi trainer, have this stone I found, it's a chip from a large rock found in the Sinnoh region
>>26391242
>"If my Eevee can evolve with a Leaf Stone in Sun, how come I couldn't do it in Red?!?!?"
Funny thing is, one of the newer evolutions added in IV broke this logic. I forget which one specifically, but it was one of the ones that needed to learn a specific move to evolve (I want to say Lickitung but I might be wrong). Starting in IV they needed their particular move to evolve, and all of the other Pokemon that gained a move-based evolution gained their evolving move in that generation, except for this one slip-up who could learn theirs in previous generations.
>>26395247
Lickitung & Piloswine. Lickitung needed Rollout to evolve which it could get as early as Gen2 via TM. Piloswine needs Ancient Power to evolve into Mamoswine and that could be acquired in Gen2/3 via egg move.
>>26393407
But it's not YOUR Haunter. And you'll never see your bro again.
>>26391196
I don't get why we get both Dawn and Shiny stones, their designs are even identical.
>>26391488
Why not both? It's not that a pokemon is restricted to one egg group.
Speaking of egg groups, how the fuck do people know which pokemon go to which egg group if they're not visible in-game?
>>26391598
Well there's the Shoal Cave in Hoenn and the postgame island in Sinnoh so it could work.
>>26391298
it really triggers me that they don't all use a stone to evolve
>>26393388
sure it made sense in the first couple of gens. but now pokemon having 2 versions is an established thing. they wouldn't have any trouble selling both versions if they got rid of trade evos now
>>26395630
Trade Evos isn't really what "justifies" to versions anyway. You could have only one version and trade evolutions could still happen.
Two versions is entirely supported by having different mons available in both. The basic goal is making people play together, so you make it so they have to trade (unless they're people with more money than sense) if they want all the mons available. Two versions is the answer to that.
>>26391298
I'm still a bit annoyed over Espeon and Umbreon. I mean, they could have used the stones at day and night to evolve, not like sun stone existed in gen I.
I mean, there's nothing wrong with how they evolve (showcasing both happiness and time-based evolutions), but it's hard to believe they introduced the sun stone in the same generation as Espeon/Umbreon and didn't think of the obvious connection.
>>26392261
INTERGALACTIC PLANETARY
>>26392651
Samefag
>>26392045
Kek
>>26395566
Experimentation until the infodump is available for datamining.
