>Cyrus and Ghetsis were followed by this disappointment
What went wrong?
You can only improve something so many times
>>26348953
that he followed Cyrus and Ghetsis
Especially Cyrus, who basically tried to do what Lysandre tried to do, but on a much grander scale.
>we will never have a very light amount of vocals in antagonist's fight themes ever again
Fucking hell, why was BW1/2 so great?
Sorry, not trying to turn this into a genwar
Lysandre was better than Ghetsis
There are other applications for this too.
>cheren, biancia, N, and Hugh were followed by the shit friends
>gen 5 ost was followed by 6's ost
>Pokemon world tournament was followed by ________
>Every champion was followed by diantha
He was ass but not as bad as Team Magma and Team Aqua's idea of a great plan.
Now that I think about it, both were kinda similar shit down the line.
>>26348999
>Sorry, not trying to turn this into a genwar
fuck off to reddit
Lysandre was better than both those unfeeling retards.
>>26348953
>What will my evil team consist of?
>SHALLOW FASHIONISTAS WHO JUST LOOOOVE RED
Literally an evil team of Jerry the Berrys.
>>26349008
Classic /vp/
>>26348953
Cyrus and Lysandre aren't that different.
Also Ghetsis was really bland personality and motivation wise, although his plan was elaborate.
Lysandre:
>Had an incredible design, and amazing evil charisma.
>Lead a group of fashion-obsessed assclowns to capture the ancient pokemon to hook up to their retarded flower machine to destroy the world for reasons.
Lysandre on his own was great. It is just Lysandre as the leader of Team Flare is fiery pants-on-head retarded. Lysandre had the potential to be great, but got written as a dipshit.
>>26349004
Cheren and Bianca were nearly just as bad as the Four Dunces Of Kalos, the only improvement with them is a negligibly larger amount of development, and Bianca's pretty good subplot with her dad.
Hugh was great though. If nothing else he had drive and was entertaining.
>>26348953
His plan might have sucked, but as a character he's pretty cool. The sort of camaraderie he has with Sycamore and straddling the line between hero and villain.
Not to mention being super stylish and having a FABULOUS team.
Cyrus > Ghetsis > Lysandre > ORAS MAxie > Giovanni > ORAS Archie
but
Team Galactic > Team Plasma BW > Team Rocket > Team Magma = Team Aqua > Team Plasma BW2 > Team Flare
Underwhelming Pokemon team, especially after coming off Ghetsis' full six and Hydreigon of death.
Embarrassing subordinates aside from Xerosic.
Clearly torn about what to do, probably wouldn't have even gone through the pleb extermination plan if he won.
>>26349101
His theme was literally the theme of his grunts but with guitar
I never played bw2 so I can't really say, but based on bw1 ghetsis wasn't all that great. Cyrus was an awesome villain but I think Lysandre is a close second because of his design and personality.
Obviously, no pokemon villain team is anywhere near competent other than maybe Team Galactic, so the leaders kind of have to do everything on their own.
>People actually liking "I'm going to remove all individuality from the world" Cyrus
Why? He's just an autistic kid who is mad because he got bullied.
>>26349126
At least they had full teams.
>>26348953
Didn't have enough development. Team Flare really could've used more.
>>26349198
>>26349185
These. If XY wasn't a handout and handholding cesspool, they could have ironed out his plot and character.
>>26349293
And you find it surprising he finds sympathy here?
>>26348953
>Good design and music > force anime writing
>>26348953
I always wished he had been in disguise at the beginning, was over obvious he was Flare leader
>Red slicked back ponytail
>Normal looking suit with red ascot
>Then when he is revealed he comes out looking this his now design
>>26349342
They actually didn't until post-game. Hugh in particular only had four at Victory Road.
>>26349126
>Hugh was great
He literally just raged on and on about a stupid Purrloin that his sister had once, and that was his entire character. I think he was the most one-dimensional rival we've seen since Brendan/May.
>>26349293
Bullied by his own parents. Because he couldn't live up to their expectations now matter how well he performed.
Most kids don't turn out as extreme as Cyrus from that, but it will fuck up almost anyone.
>>26349293
Because he was competent as fuck. Not even the protagonist was able to stop him. It's awesome how his goal was the most irrealistic yet he worked so hard he almost succeeded, to the point that it took a cosmic being to stop him. He would have won (or at least fucked up the world real bad even if it wasn't how he wanted) if it wasn't for Giratina.
>>26349770
I guess? Plot Armor is hella strong.
>>26349680
He was Blue-tier in that while one-dimensional, his one dimension is pretty entertaining
Silver and Barry are still the best rivals though because they are both entertaining and develop or have backstory, Wally meets those criteria too but doesn't get enough screen time
>>26349887
Fucking Silver is terrible. Classic case of show don't tell.
>>26349887
HG/SS ruined Silver by making him more pitiful.
>only 4 Pokemon compared to Ghetsis's 6 and Cyrus's 5
Who could have been added to his final team?
Gengar or Salamence maybe?
>>26349887
Wally is the best one IMO. Fuck screen-time, you really get to see how he improves as a person and a trainer over the course of the game.
>>26349980
>2 out of 4 pokemon only have 3 moves
for what fucking purpose
>>26349920
yes.
>>26350050
Gamefreak doesn't know how to program AI. More moves means more shit to think about.
>>26350050
So that the AI has the greatest chance of making the optimal move. (I think.)
>>26349980
What was the point of that Doctor Octopus ripoff?
>>26350125
I think he wasn't bonded enough with his Pokemon so he has to use it to force Mega Evolution energy generated by the Ultiweapon
>>26348953
Lysandre was basically the same as Cyrus in terms of end result but not as grand or autistic.
All he wanted was a world without those who took the world for granted.
The master race.
He did nothing wrong.
>>26350192
You can see his mega ring so it's not that.
I kinda liked Team Rocket in that they were just a bunch of a-holes bullying people with Pokemon.
>>26350459
That's basically what gangs are. Simple but effective.
>>26349126
Cherrim and Bianca are terrible. I'm playing through White again, and I'm sick of them. They show up every five steps just to slow down your progress. Fuck that, I wanted to have an adventure.
>>26350459
Eh, felt a bit too simple for Pokemon.
>>26350125
>>26350192
>>26350260
It was stated in a interview or something that he needed it in order to do a last-minute transfer of life energy from Xerneas/Yveltal to the weapon, like a last resort.
The wings on the "bugs" also look like Magearna's "ears," so it was probably part of project AZOTH or something, too.
>>26350227
Lysandre did nothing wrong and you all ruined the beautiful world that was to come.
>>26349680
Yeah, but I started to like him when he said it was his grandfather's Perloin who passed away. Made me really feel for him, I interpreted it as Hugh fighting for his Grandpa and not willing to lose him, and he just seems so conflicted after he wins and accomplished his goal in postgame and its nice to see him helping the old team plasma gang (I probably would have joined them)
>>26350091
Have you even seen Colress/N's/Iris/PWT teams in BW2 then they go to not having complete move sets?
>>26348953
X and Y followed Platinum and Gem 5
>>26348953
I been re-playing pokemon X and literally the first two encounters with him in the game lead me to believe he is one of the biggest psychopaths including both Cyrus and Ghetsis.
>hurr muh beautiful world
>I want a beautiful world
>Did I mention I don't want it to be ugly?
I wonder, was this Game freak's idea of keeping it subtle? Cause that sounds like cleansing and genocide right in the first minute.
>>26352301
Eugenics.
It weirds me out how he had no nose.
GF has mostly gotten better with villains in the past few gens, it's a shame Lysandre sucked. Even ORAS had new and improved Archie and Maxie.
>>26352301
It basically was cleansing/genocide. I was surprised to find out some people found him sympathetic, he came off as a total douche to me.
>>26348953
I like him but i feel his story isnt finished yet. We'll see if Sun and Moon brings him back in some way
>>26352301
He's French, so its not psycopathic.
If they really wanted to have a subtle french mafia leader they should've opened with "Flare, get the houndooms and koffings we're going to gas these kikes and niggers now!"
What went wrong is that you didn't read the dialogue or analyse the plot and you consequently missed all the motivation and theming. Sounds like a personal problem, but who actually expects OP to not be retarded at this point?
>>26352443
It bothers me that one of his comrades (Malva) got pretty much free from all of this. She got away with all of it.
>>26348953
>Ghetsis were followed by this disappointment
Ghetsis was a huge disappointment himself, so nothing out of the ordinary.
Cyrus is kinda coo-coo but at least he was different. Ghetsis is just a less subtle Giovanni and Lysandre's just a faggier Cyrus.
>>26352587
>less subtle Giovanni
Now now, at least for most of BW he managed to hide his true intentions and got N as the banner of team plasma while he was really pulling the strings. Even if obvious to the player at least it worked for the story.
He also wanted to stab a teenager with some ice.
>>26352586
She never actually did anything they can prove senpai. Plus she's the news caster and a E4 member so she has special perks.
>>26352587
Ghetsis was also more successful (he still lost, but he got closer than any villain but Cyrus) as well as way more of an ingame threat than any other Team boss.
>>26352604
Say what you will about ghetsis but his mental breakdown to losing to a random kid TWICE was hilarious.
>>26352587
At least Ghetsis didnt give up like the super "criminal" Giovanni because he lost to a kid.
>>26352633
He turned into a vegetable the second time too.
>>26350125
>>26350597
Yeah, I just assumed it was what he was planning to use to get the remaining energy out of the legendary after the big machine got wrecked when Xerneas/Yveltal awakened from their dormant form.
>>26352587
Giovanni's just a mafia boss who likes nothing better than doing profitable business (through using Pokemon like tools, and extorting people like what was happening with Silph Co.). Ghetsis is a 'I wanna rule the world' villain. I don't see how the two are similar.
>>26348953
Cyrus was a selfish narcissist fallowed by a bunch of retards that can somehow breath but not see how illogical his ideas were.
Ghetsis had all his bases covered but got screwed over by destiny. atleast his team were well aware of his goals and were all into it (well, most of them anyway)
team rocket are still the best villains in my opinion because their goals were simple and believable
>>26349802
Technically he did achieve his goal in Platinum, his goal was to create a world where he could escape humanity and be on his own, to be in a world without spirit or emotions, by trapping himself in the Distortion World he achieved his goal and could finally be in solitude. The only being in the Distortion World was Giratina and the player catching it made him the only thing inside it. It's actually interesting when you realize he's the only antagonist in the series to actually accomplish his goal.
>>26349101
Yeah, I really liked Lysandre himself. He just got saddled with a bunch of retarded mooks and unmemorable admins. I cannot understand that he'd want to cleanse the world but keep those idiots around.
>>26353121
Team rRcket was boring though. Why settle for money when Pokemon are capable of anything you can possibly imagine?
>>26354156
Common sense tells you that playing with forces of nature can only make bad things happen. If TR was behind the Mewtwo project then it could also be that they learned from it.
>>26348953
The entirety of Gen 6 was wrong.
>>26354390
Thing is Team Rocket was as stupid as any other team. They were useless and Giovanni left them for no good reason.
>>26354390
The thing is, science and technology are forces of nature. Honestly the only thing an evil team needs to do to succeed is take care of their pokemon and treat the legendary pokemon with respect instead of trying to enslave it.
That's what Aqua and Magma do and they succeed in their initial goals. Then they realize their initial goals were fucking retarded and the PC has to intervene and save them.
N also would have succeeded at his goal if the rest of his team weren't corrupt.
>>26354390
>Common sense tells you that playing with forces of nature can only make bad things happen.
The problem with that logic is that it happens daily in the pokemon world.
>>26348953
>calling anything disappointment after ghetsis "psychopath followed by retarded children with anger issues, a furry and a bunch of losers, goes so assmad after losing two times he literally has a stroke from butthurt and turns into a vegetable"
unovaborts everyone
>>26354547
Game Freak always find new ways to disappoint.
>>26354547
It's like you only know gen v through memes
>>26354653
>unovabort defense force
anything plasma related is absolute garbage
>>26354659
I'd ask if you actually knew anything about the games but you're probably googling it now in anticipation.
>>26354698
>still more excuses
>>26354706
You've never even played it have you
>>26354735
I played both
>>26354659
Their uniforms in the sequel were pretty rad.
>>26354735
>being this delusional due to butthurt
>>26354750
>>26354745
I have my doubts about that if your only qualms are in memes.
That or you just mashed through games like some sort of child.
>>26354750
>being this delusional due to butthurt
>being this mad because someone called you out on your shit
>>26354767
you have to mash through plasma unless you want to get a critical dose of cringe and become autistic faggot like you
Ghetsis in BW2 was shit, but the main villain for 90% of the story was Colress anyway and he was really cool.
As for Lysandre and Team Flare, he purposely surrounded himself with a bunch of vain retarded rich kids as grunts. It's obvious no-one but the scientists and the admins in the Geosenge base knew anything about Lysandre's real goal and there was no way most of the grunts would've agreed to world genocide if they did.
>Lysandre
>Lies and Slander
Hilarious.
>>26354789
So you're admitting that you don't know shit about the games and rely on "epic may mays"
>>26354771
Must I repeat myself?
>>being this delusional due to butthurt
I don't know about the other anon but I honestly played through both games and the only way I see someone being satisfied with B/W is by only playing/watch Pokémon and nothing else. B2/W2 at least doesn't have that pathetic attempt at a "serious" story bringing the rest of the game down.
>>26354870
>still posting
>nothing in your post pertaining to the actual game beyond the titles
This is pathetic anon.
>>26348953
Lysandre was the best villain yet.
Not some edgy clown like those two, but someone who believes what he is doing is right.
>>26354870
You aren't fooling anyone here.
Well aside from the other anon.
>>26354888
>>26354919
Not sure if samefag...
>>26354888
>>26354919
nice damage control
His goal and the goal of his team have pretty much nothing to do with eachother.
Team Plasma was believable enough in that Ghestis was manipulating a bunch of poke-sjws into believing they were doing something good so any extremes were justified but the Flarefags seem more like the exact kind of people Lysandre is trying to get rid of
>>26354953
Exactly, he just uses them as cash cows and workforce to get rid of them later
>>26354953
I was going to say this. The mooks have always been pure comedy villains, but there was always at least a thematic or motivational connection between the more serious leaders and their laughable minions.
But in XY they're just a bunch of selfish idiots. I don't think a single one ever managed to say anything like what Lysandre said.
>>26354966
The problem with that is it never, ever comes up in the games. That's the kind of shit villains always spout in the climax.
>"I was just using those fools. There's no room in my perfect world for people like them!"
There's nothing even indicating who Lysandre would be sparing for his world beyond Team Flare.
>>26354978
No one or maybe the top scientist team? It was pretty fun to watch how flare mooks suddenly realised no one cares about them once crystal got raised
>>26354900
What? Lysandre is almost literally an edgy clown!
>looks ridiculous
>stupid reasoning for genocide
>>26349012
>red
They wear orange.
>>26349980
Cyrus has 4 in DP, slightly lower levels even in Platinum and doesn't have a thing with almost cover legendary BST on its team.
>>26354978
I figured they were going to get rid of lower class or something. Everyone in team Flare was implied to be wealthy socialites or some shit if I remember properly. And they deemed themselves fit to inhabit the earth alone.
>>26355165
>edgy clown
>ridiculous
Fite me
>>26355479
That could work, but Lysandre himself doesn't have any sort of class pretensions beyond, I believe, a belief that he is responsible due to being a descendant of AZ's brother (And this is only implied, I think). Lysandre's motivations are more about a general, vague disgust with human selfishness and short sighted exploitation of the world and each other. He never says anything that even subtly indicates he believes this is primarily the lower class.
The whole "need to pay mundo bucks to get in" never comes up with Lysandre or his motivations. Again, Lysandre and the rest of his Team seem oddly divorced, motivation wise. And this could work, if there was also anything playing off of this divide. And there isn't. I guess the "elegant, beautiful world" and Team Flare's fashion obsession overlap, but it's pretty weak, as these things go.
>>26350227
Master kek
>>26350555
>unchecked trips
>gen 1 wasn't his first
You deserved it fampai
>>26355530
I remember before XY came out, Flare was described as greedy, obsessed with money, and having a desire to make a beautiful world. I was excited because it sounded like a team that wasn't going to be "well intentioned" and just straight up be selfish assholes. Then they tried to shoehorn Lysandre as a well intentioned villain anyway and it just didn't work for me.
