What went wrong?
Images are sometimes not shown due to bandwidth/network limitations. Refreshing the page usually helps.
You are currently reading a thread in /vp/ - Pokemon
You are currently reading a thread in /vp/ - Pokemon
What went wrong?
Poor side characters.
Tsunami /earthquake
Director
Iris and the worst filler episodes in Pokemon history
>>26328604
No Hilda/Rosa
The series would probably still be shit but at least we'd have best girls carrying us through
>>26328604
Killing off Brock
they dumbed ash down. he was really good in the d/p series. but then it went too shit in black n white.
>>26328604
Shit pokemon, shit side characters, shit main character, shit story.
Only good thing was team rocket not always stalking a "ten" year old.
Dumb black loli sidekick, no Hilda or Rosa
>>26328604
>ashnime
It never went right to begin with.
If the games are good, the anime is bad. If the games are bad, the anime is good.
>>26328671
Shit story until Episode N/Meloetta arc you mean
>>26328708
I'll give you that.
>>26328633
>>26328692
>wanting the anime to taint Hilda
Look what they did to poor Serena.
>>26328604
the anime went to shit when misty and brock left.
>>26328604
>Ash was dumbed down
>Shit rival
>No Hilda or Rosa (Hilbert and Nate cameos would've been cool as well)
>None of the starters made it to their final evo
>Episode N had decent buildup but the finale was disappointing
>>26328620
>Tsunami /earthquake
That didn't have the impact you think it did.
It's just that the Plasma/Rocket special's delay coincided with the series' dropoff point.
There was too much in the tube for those events to have altered the trajectory in a way that would've made it substantially better or worse. Dogasu went through this a few years ago.
>>26328604
Dull and poor animation quality
Generally lacked self awareness, and the N arc ended up betraying expectations badly.
>>26328631
To be fair, while the filler was on average worse, I think BW had the single best filler episode. "Darumakka and Hihidaruma! The Secret of the Clock Tower!!" was easily my favourite mon episode since Kanto.
It had great pacing, a compelling character, an interesting scenario that didn't feel contrived, and a conclusion that was satisfying, even if expected.
>>26328604
Poor characters
Not enough Charizard screentime.
Lenora wasn't Ash's traveling companion.
>>26328604
The most embarrassing League loss for Ash to date.
>>26329768
So many fucking shitty characters.
It was going so well..but everything changed when the shitty riolu/lucario nation attacked
>>26329782
>Damien.png
>they add charizard to ash's party to bring in more viewers
>charizard doesn't do anything
>>26329796
And also >>26329747
Did I miss any one?
>>26328604
Dropping the Rocket vs Plasma special, which would've lead to the BW1 plot where Ash would be at odds with N over the relationship between Pokemon and humans, climaxing in the final showdown where Ash has Zekrom at his side against N and Reshiram. Probably could've lead to an intense rivalry that would, well, rival that of Paul's.
Also the possible bonus of having the entire Team Rocket organization waging a private war against Team Plasma in between episodes. Imagine a rivalry between Giovanni and Ghetsis.
Yes I'm being completely honest and serious in saying how Best Wishes could've been the best anime season if they followed through an arc similar to the story in BW1.
>>26329863
That makes me so mad.
Shitty simplistic backgrounds with horrible-looking trees and clouds and hideous bright colors for everything, including lovely yellow, green and purple buildings most of the time.
Even more than the director, I'm sure they changed their background team for XY since we now get stuff like this.
>>26330307
>I'm sure they changed their background team for XY
Artists have to cut their teeth somewhere. I don't doubt some of the people responsible for the BW anime's backgrounds went on to work for XY.
Same applies to the ORAS overworld. It was shit, because it had new talent. I trust that the next game they work on will show improvement.
>>26329739
>>26329751
They need more r34
>>26329424
>That didn't have the impact you think it did
A lot of things in the series changed after that point though, particularly Team Rocket going right back to their old formula. I don't think it was a coincidence that the quality of the show in general went to shit after the earthquake.
>>26328604
it's not jojo
>>26328722
>>26328718
>Look what they did to poor Serena.
>>26328604
Well in my opinion, the last few episodes of BW where some what lack luster and the league was rushed but everything was actually pretty good.
>>26328631
>Iris and the worst filler episodes in Pokemon history.
Gonna have to disagree with you there, I loved Iris has a character and thought the filler in this season was the series best.
>>26328645
they dumbed ash down.
>>26328746
>they dumbed ash down.
Gonna go over on a limb and say that these statements are outright wrong, and can easily prove you guys wrong, but i'm not going to explain unless you guys want me too or are just curious on why I feel this way
>>26330782
>Gonna go over on a limb and say that these statements are outright wrong, and can easily prove you guys wrong, but i'm not going to explain unless you guys want me too or are just curious on why I feel this way
Do it, sounds interesting.
>>26330662
It was a coincidence to happen after the cancelation, it wasn't a coincidence to happen after the special. Don't get those confused, like the rest of the plebs have.
The episodes had been planned out well in advance, like they always are, to accommodate for any in-game events, tying into spinoffs, and the summer movie. The only one drastically altered was the fishing episode. Later episodes needed slight retcons to account for the Desert Resort.
You're right that Team Rocket regressed after it, that was always the plan. "Serious Rocket" only had a limited shelf life, and it's pretty evident they were going to go out on a bang with the special. It's safe to assume Rocket failed their mission, and this could very well be the reason for the character regression.
Just gonna quote block Dogasu here, because he's right and you know it
>The thing about all that, though, is that the writers had already made major, major changes to the Plasma-Dan's storyline even before this whole earthquake business. This wasn't like the evil groups in Houen and Shin'ou, where the TV series more or less followed their plots from the games. No, in Best Wishes!, the writers pretty much trashed every storyline related to the Plasma-Dan in favor of their own original stories. By the time this two-parter was set to air, the TV series had already skipped G'Cis' speech in Karakusa Town, the introduction of N, the kidnapping of the little girl's pokemon by the Plasma grunts, the theft of the Dragon Bones in the Shippou City, the kidnapping of Bel's Mun'na in Hiun City, and the introductions of four of the Seven Sages (G'Cis, Asura, Sumura, and Rot). The Site of Dreams stuff from the games was kind of in the TV series, but it was the Rocket-Dan, not the Plasma-Dan, who were behind all the trouble there.
http://dogasu.bulbagarden.net/comparisons/isshu/rocket_vs_plasma/plasma-dan_fate.html
>>26330715
SHIT
I'm just happy they never ruined any of my favorite protags.
>>26328722
screw you genwunner
>>26328604
remplaces Dawn with shitty Iris
>>26330942
Fuck quoted wrong text. Still relevant, but here ya go
>Something else people have to remember is that the episodes that followed the two-parter were either already finished or were being worked on when those tragedies struck. We know from various sources (Pokebeach's interview with Hidaka Masamitsu, the date on the character model sheets for the Aloe episodes that were floating around the Internet, basic logic, etc.) that it takes about six months from the time work starts on an episode to the time it airs. Using basic math, we can deduce that at the time of the 3/11 disasters, every episode up to the two-part "A Mad Run! The Battle Subway!!" (episodes 47 and 48) were being worked on in some capacity. So earthquake or not, the Plasma-Dan still wouldn't have had a single appearance in the six months following the big two-parter, more Plasma plots would have been skipped, Sakaki still would have stopped appearing, and we'd still get a bunch of those self-contained "Rocket-Dan try to steal X pokemon of the day" type episodes. The disasters didn't change any of that.
>>26329863
>Dropping the Rocket vs Plasma special, which would've lead to the BW1 plot where Ash would be at odds with N over the relationship between Pokemon and humans,
Where's the fucking proof that this would have taken place?
For all we know, Rocket Vs. Plasma could have just been a one off event.
Remember, Battling for the Love of Bug Types was READY TO GO, Jessie and James having white uniforms again was clearly READY TO GO, regardless of the 2 parter being yanked.
Unless you have some new info, there's no reason to believe N was going to be involved with Ash throughout his journey in Unova.
Where was N introduced in the game?
Accumula Town.
In the games, where is the concept that the relationships between humans and Pokémon might not be what Pokémon Trainers make it out to be?
Accumula Town.
In the anime, what happens in the one and only episode of the entire series to take place Accumula Town?
A STORY CENTERED ENTIRELY ON THE SUBJECT OF POKEMON ABUSE BY CRUEL TRAINERS.
Where the fuck is N?
He's fucking NOWHERE.
The entire setup for this episode seemed tailor made to introduce N, or the concept of Team Plasma's progaganda, and they made no effort to do so whatsoever, which is bizarre given they were teasing Team Plasma since the first episode and never explicitly refer to them or their activities again until what WOULD have been the 2 part special.
Odds are, N, and any plot reminiscent of the games was never intended for the show, with Rocket Vs. Plasma being planned basically as an attention grab to hook people on to the new series.
I hate to say it, but the people behind this show have absolutely no incentive to be creative or ambitious in any way.
If only they didn't rush into the ending for DP
>>26328722
Upvoted! x^D
>>26331128
Wut.
DP's ending was anything but rushed. Are you just mad that they forced Ash to lose? Becuase other than that, it was a really well done ending.
Everyone had a good amount of time for closure. Hell, Paul's brother Reggie had about as much screen time and closure as Max did back in AG. That speaks volumes to DP.
Everything about DP's pacing was fucking awesome.
>Takes place in Unova
>No inner city Gang Violence
>>26328604
Better the game the worst the show. Prove me wrong Sinnoh (DP)shitty game good anime Kalos garbage games amazing anime. Unova amazing games disgusting anime. Johto great games pretty pathetic anime
>>26330907
Well alright then, I watch this whole season and kept hearing stuff like, Ash forgot his brain in kanto or he's dumb in this region.
Well has someone who watched this whole season, I had to say that's outright wrong, Now I seen everyone and their mother point out Ash's loses to Trip or throwing a pokeball at an Pokemon without weaking it.
These to can be easily reasoned with.
>Ash lost to Trip and his level 5 Snivy just after his Pikachu beaten a Latios.
Well first you guys have to remember that this takes place a few months after Sinho and Ash and Pikachu might have no been train, also Zekrom weaken Pikachu so there's that.
>B-But Ash could have still beaten Trip with out using electric attacks.
Well here's the thing, Ash was confused has to why his Pikachu couldn't use any electric attacks and that's when Trip decided to attack while he was confused, and he never saw the attack before so he didn't know how to doge it.
>Level 100 Pikachu vs Level Snivy.
Level's aren't a thing in the anime, Ash lost his first battle with Trip for a few reasons.
>He hasn't trained Pikachu for a while so he go weaker.
>Zekcrom fucked him over.
>Was confused on what was wrong with Pikachu.
>Didn't know how to doge Leaf Tornado because he had never seen it before.
If anything, it's makes a lot of sense on why he lost.
>So what about his other Battles with Trip?
2nd Battle, he got unlucky.
3rd was tie.
4th he was just plain overpowered.
5th time he won.
>Well what about him forgetting to weak a Pokemon to catch.
Ash was so hyped to be in a new region with all new Pokemon that he had never seen before and where for the time, wasn't in any other region, that he derped out of a moment, but then he stated that he knows how to catch a Pokemon.
>Iris: You have to weaken it before you try to catch it.
>Ash: I know that.
I'm actually surprised that i'm the only one who caught that.
>>26331240
>2nd Battle, he got unlucky.
>3rd was tie.
>4th he was just plain overpowered.
>he derped out of a moment
Those are a lot of justifications. What about all his losses in the Battle Club tournaments?
>>26331229
>JOHTO
>pathetic anime
>Adaption of the most plot heavy game in the series
>doesn't do anything with the plot until a post league filler arc where all the plasma characters were OoC
>>26331391
> a post league filler arc
A post league filler arc that was cut short to have an EVEN LESS RELEVANT FILLER ARC.
They literally could have done an entire fast paced "second tour" through Unova with Ash, Iris, Dawn, and N, dealing with Team Plasma, in their B2/W2 attire, loosely mirroring the plot of the games.
But no, why do that when we can have ash take a cruise to irrelevant islands.
>>26331278
Simple.
>Ash vs Iris
Pikachu vs Excdrill, no brainer on that one.
>Ash vs Montomery
Sraggy vs Throh, got over powered.
>>26331391
>where all the plasma characters were OoC.
OK that's a new one, can you explain this one to me because now you lost me.
>>26331427
Compare that to XY, which had an OVA subseries dedicated to introducing Team Flare and its leader and is currently airing an entire season where the main plot arc is showing what TF would be like if XY got a third version.
>>26331323
Absolutely. Everything is filler, the only potentially interesting storyline (GS ball) is dropped, Misty and Brock become horribly stagnant characters, only one of Ash's Pokémon evolves and not even all the way through. It's the worst part of the anime.
The introduction of blacks. Nuff said
IIIIIRRRRRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIISSSS.Iris.
>>26331541
Plus things like making Malva relevant to Team Flare and making the protagonist's main rival part of Team Flare instead of just a friend. It's like redemption for what they failed to do with Team Plasma and N.
>>26330942
>>26331021
>>26331052
Wow...So the BW anime would've been shit regardless, because
>being based on the games most renowned for having any semblance of a decent plot in the main series
>wasn't going to get an anime adaptation
>Instead we got the writing teams "original" storylines
>>26328631
It didn't have the worst fillers. Not by far.
Iris had an annoying personality true, but she had her nice moments too. Plus it was something different from what we usually get.
BW's problem was the writing in general.
>Ash's reset after his successful Sinnoh run. No more use of strategies, no more tactical trainings, no more creativity. Just using move after move.
>Team Rocket being serious then back to being goofy because they know they fucked up with them. And even when they went back to goofy they were given mons without personality (Amoonguss, Woobat, Frillish. Only Yamask had some sort of personality but it was nothing compared to other TR mons).
>The animation was shit with all the bright colors, clouds and background looked like shit.
>Ash's team was 90% jokemon with cancers such as Oshawott and Scraggy. Only capable mons were Pignite, Leavanny, Palpitoad, Boldore and Krookodile but most of them were constantly left to rot at Juniper's.
>Shit gym battles. Seriously there is almost no gym battle that could be considered good. Maybe Brycen's and Clay's. Huge step backwards after DP. The battles vs. Striation Gym Leaders, Elesa, and Roxie are some of the worst gym battles in the history of the show.
>One of the worst leagues. Main rival battle is 1 vs. 1, Ash loses to the biggest retard ever, Axew filler for no reason. Shit..
>>26331323
It had Ash's worst team in the series and it was the arc that sent that stupid "Team Rocket steals [x]" filler template into overdrive.
>>26331614
I don't think there was a single character from the XY games that wasn't better in the anime
>>26331548
Johto was HILARIOUS
>early episodes go back to basics
>turns out that means turning ash into a retard again
>>26331659
>I don't think there was a single character from the XY games that wasn't better in the anime
I'm glad they fixed obvious things such as giving Wulfric a Mega Abomasnow since he already has an Abomasnow in the games but they retardedly decided to put an unrelated Abomasnow + Abomasite in a different snowy place instead.
>>26328697
>indigo league was bad
what
>>26331696
>Red and Blue were good games
>>26331614
Now all we need is a redemption of the Plasma vs Rocket special and have a large contingent of TR lead by Giovanni arrive in Kalos to do battle with Team Flare.
Who else can see a Giovanni vs Lysandre-Persian vs Pyroar battle a mile away?
Actually here's something I noticed: Lysandre is the only new gen team leader in the anime to be shown with his very own Pokemon.
>>26331735
>being this contrarian
Kill yourself senpai
>>26328604
The fact that they tried to reboot the anime, using the same main character
>>26330715
Turned into shipping trash
I don't know why Tamashii likes Iris and Misty and dislikes Serena.
She has such shit taste
>>26331776
I was kidding on Red and Blue, but you could argue the Kanto anime isn't good because of things like the battles being almost always crap, Misty usually being annoying and the pacing being really uneven. I don't really have an opinion on it since I haven't watched it in ten-plus years so I won't argue anything myself.
>>26331844
Who's this wonderful woman?
>>26331844
I'm pretty sure that she has someone write her scripts for her, and has no knowledge of pokemon outside of "Pokemon fans are the kind of dumb idiots that will click on the ads for my video because im a grilll"
>>26331780
This is the point where using Ash just got extremely stupid
>>26331844
Serena spent a year doing nothing and it's clear that her romance plot will never go anywhere, I can see why people don't like her.
>>26331844
>stacking boxed games horizontally
FUCKING IDIOT THAT MAKES THEM BEND HOLY SHIT HOW CAN YOU BE THIS DUMB INVEST IN GOD DAMN SHELVES AND STORE YOUR SHIT HORIZONTALLY LIKE A FUCKING HUMAN
>>26331844
ALSO WHO THE FUCK BUYS POKEMON DASH BUT NOT POKEMON CONQUEST FUCK
>>26328722
It was still acceptable with Brock, now that Brock is kill there's no one to tell Ash to stop being a faggot. Ash just does whatever and everyone else is too cųcked to stop him.
>>26331923
>serena spent a year doing nothing and everyone loses their shit
>Misty did nothing for 2 years in Johto and nobody gives a shit.
>>26332027
A lot of people hate Misty's character post-Togepi
>>She has such shit taste.
Why? Because she likes fictional characters that you don't?
Just because she has differing opinions, that does make her wrong.
>>26332027
>Misty slaps Ash and no one cares.
>Iris calls Ash a Kid and everyone loses their minds.
>>26329782
>>26329730
>>26329815
Can someone explain to me why these three lack sclera when everyone else has them?
>>26331844
The female protagonists really only seem to work well when they actually have a concrete goal. Misty didn't really have a 'followable' goal, and her character suffered. Same with Iris and, to a degree, Serena.
Teebeeaych, Misty and anime Iris are basically the same character, so it doesn't surprise me that she'd like both of them.
>>26332068
>Misty slaps Ash and no one cares.
>Iris calls Ash a Kid and everyone loses their minds.
>>26331637
>It didn't have the worst fillers. Not by far.
Agreed.
>Iris had an annoying personality true, but she had her nice moments too. Plus it was something different from what we usually get.
Ii will have to disagree here, IMO Iris is what Misty SHOULD have been.
>BW's problem was the writing in general.
Eh let's see then.
>>Ash's reset after his successful Sinnoh run. No more use of strategies, no more tactical trainings, no more creativity. Just using move after move.
Ash had plenty of creativity, he just didn't sticking to one training style, which IMO works better for him.
>>Team Rocket being serious then back to being goofy because they know they fucked up with them. And even when they went back to goofy they were given mons without personality (Amoonguss, Woobat, Frillish. Only Yamask had some sort of personality but it was nothing compared to other TR mons).
Alright fair enough.
>The animation was shit with all the bright colors, clouds and background looked like shit.
Eh that's very debatable, the animation looked fine to me, and liked the how the background looked in this season although I think XY has much better animation.
>Ash's team was 90% jokemon with cancers such as Oshawott and Scraggy. Only capable mons were Pignite, Leavanny, Palpitoad, Boldore and Krookodile but most of them were constantly left to rot at Juniper's
Oshawottt and Scragggy where awesome, they acted silly sometimes but they still could kick ass when they needed too.
>Shit gym battles. Seriously there is almost no gym battle that could be considered good. Maybe Brycen's and Clay's. Huge step backwards after DP. The battles vs. Striation Gym Leaders, Elesa, and Roxie are some of the worst gym battles in the history of the show.
>Worst then Kanto? RRRIIGHHHTT.
Elsa's and Roxie's gym battle where different but not outright bad, I can go into detail about these two if you want.
>>26332093
>Teebeeaych, Misty and anime Iris are basically the same character, so it doesn't surprise me that she'd like both of them.
Misty actually got violent, Iris was just a cunt projecting her inferiority complex on other people by calling them "kids".
Misty was a tomboy, Iris was just ""quirky"".
>>26332255
Count.
>One of the worst leagues. Main rival battle is 1 vs. 1, Ash loses to the biggest retard ever, Axew filler for no reason. Shit.
I will agree that this league was bad and filler was not needed but that last part.
>Ash loses to the biggest retard ever, Axew filler for no reason. Shit.
Camreon is retarded, forgettable, and ignorant but not outright retarded.
The main reason I believe the series sucked so much, was that the battles were terribly written. It's not so much that Ash lost everything besides gym battles, but that they had no logic to them even by anime standards. Type match-ups didn't mean shit, attract was a one-hit-ko for the first half of the season, and there were always ass-pulls at the last minute to give either side the victory depending on how the story needs to go. Given that 50% of the anime involves some kind of pokemon battle, they were on autopilot when writing them out.
Immediately following the earthquake, we had countless fucking filler. I'm going to assume that there were supposed to be Plasma related episodes that were pulled, hence the endless filler. This gave the writers enough time to edit out everything Plasma related and change the plot totally.
Do you realize how amazing that episode looked though?? I bet that would have been the most intense episode of Pokemon to date. And the Ash/Giovanni confrontation probably would have had more meaning instead of...
>hurr this is bad guy trying to get Meloetta!
>>26332135
Alright then.
>>26332331
>Iris was just a cunt projecting her inferiority complex on other people by calling them "kids".
More like.
>Iris was stressed out because she had to travel alone with a newly hatched baby Pokemon who can barley fight and every time it tried to use Dragon Rage, it blew up in you're face, and you're only other Pokemon doesn't want to listen after you lost you're 99 win record, and to top it all off, some guy throws and pokeball at you're head.
Iris had a hard life is all that i'm trying to say so it's pretty understandable that she came off a little mean, but hey, at least we learn more about her in less then 20 episodes.
I'M LOOKING AT YOU SERENA!
![[Over-Time] Animal Sentai Zyuohger - 13 [A9B10703].mkv_snapshot_06.44_[2016.05.14_19.58.57].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/1r7jvhK.jpg "[Over-Time] Animal Sentai Zyuohger - 13 [A9B10703].mkv_snapshot_06.44_[2016.05.14_19.58.57].jpg")
>>26332398
>that scene with the Liepard doing a drive-by Hyper Beam on a building
>>26332515
Was meant for
>>26332306
>>26332528
At least they have it new the 3 opening. :)
I stopped following the anime shortly after Black/White started. Did that 'Tournament in literally every town we visit along with 5 new rivals' thing continue because I got really fucking tired of it. I like adventures and exploring and shit.
>>26332528
>build up leading up to Plasma huge Army VS Rocket Army finale
>Giovanni VS Ghetsis with heroes caught in the middle
>>26328604
Everything. I point to this as everything that can possibly go wrong with a show like this.
>>26332398
See
>>26331021
>>26330942
It was always going to be shit.
>>26332515
>I'M LOOKING AT YOU SERENA!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI3DlIrvoHg
>>26333819
>WHO THE HELL CARES?!
You do m8 if went out of you're way to reply, with a video no less.
>>26331876
>that nose
>lazy bagged eyes
>wonderful
>>26330957
I'm with you. Such a blessing.
>>26328604
A natural disaster.
>>26330942
>>26331021
Well I'm not going to disagree with you there, that's actually a solid argument. I'm perfectly willing to concede that the decline in the show's quality occurring after the earthquake was coincidental.
But there was still a marked decline regardless. A lot of the early episodes of BW were well-animated and seemed like they had some actual effort put into the writing, even if the plot of the games was largely intended to be abandoned. The Darmanitan episode was particularly good, I thought.
But after the earthquake? Between Team Rocket's regression, episodic stories that seemed to copypaste from past seasons even more than usual and noticeably poor animation, it didn't seem like there was much effort put into the show after the cancelled two-parter. Seems to me like they were just planning to reel people in with the prospect of having more interesting writing, only to revert back to the usual formulas and traditions after the penultimate Plasma vs. Rocket episode. I just don't think they had the resources to keep Best Wishes at a consistent level of quality for very long, and perhaps they knew that but wanted to try something different anyway if only for the first batch of episodes.
>>26334147
Anon behind those two posts here, and I concur with your views entirely. I actually got back into the anime about 20 episodes before DP ended, was watching it live on streams, and felt like Best Wishes was really solid at first, even if it was markedly different. But the sour taste the cancelation put in my mouth, coupled with the episodes that followed, have put me off of watching any new episodes since. Caught glimpses of late BWbecause my ex would watch the dub, and while I'm sure neither of those helped, the framing, stories, and scope just seemed really weak.
I think one of the issues was harkening back to the original series, as you touch upon, but not just 'because harkening'. The first bit of BW really tried to capture the feeling of Kanto's anime, and I think that's a big reason why we saw so much altered from the games' plot. The problem is, those initial episodes also managed to capture some of the heart of the original series. I didn't see that with any later episodes. The downgrade in animation quality just tied it all together with a bow and gave me something to constantly complain about. Seemed like a step back from even the the standard definition DP episodes.
>Seems to me like they were just planning to reel people in with the prospect of having more interesting writing, only to revert back to the usual formulas and traditions
Indeed it does. Now, we'll never now if they'd planned another juicy arc later on--perhaps it was retooled into the N season-thing. I bring this up, because we can safely say any potential longterm plans they had regarding the plot were altered by the release of Black & White 2.
>>26334147
>>26334595
Also, the Darmanitan episode would easily be my totally-not-arbitrary top 20-ish episodes ranking of the series. I'm glad to see I'm not crazy or autistic in thinking it's pree good.
>>26332515
>>Iris was stressed out because she had to travel alone with a newly hatched baby Pokemon
She bailed the school and wanted to go on her own. She had Axew and Excadrill with her. It's literally
>Iris was just a cunt projecting her inferiority complex on other people by calling them "kids".
>>26331170
No battle frontier
>>26328604
Cilan
Iris stopped calling out Ash's bullshit because it "promoted bullying"
>>26334793
That's not an established thing.
Diamong & Pearl -- the video games -- were delayed by a year. That's why we had a Hoenn Batle Frontier arc eating time up in Kanto for a year.
>>26334646
Glad im not the only one who thought that, That was a godtier episode
>>26329751
BEST SIDE CHARACTER IN THE SERIES
It seems like it started pretty good, but then got really bad, almost like it got new writers or something
I really liked that team rocket wouldn't appear every single fucking episodes, and I miss them being kind of competent/intimidating/not laughable. It did get really bad though, so everyone judges the series by the end
Mfw no Bianca
>>26330986
Replaced Shitty piplup with a likeable axew
>>26334147
>Between Team Rocket's regression
I won't argue that there wasn't a general decline in quality, but a LOT of that was clearly because they blew their load with Rocket Vs Plasma, and that was BEFORE it got pulled.
Team Rocket's reversion was clearly planned in advance immediately follwing Rocket Vs. Plasma, and even though they went back to the white uniforms and lightened up a lot, compared to how the utter absurdity of how they acted in Sinnoh, Team Rocket were pretty decent villains.
>>26335106
One step forward, and two steps back by having Show Stealing Shitstain Oshawott getting numerous entire episodes dedicated to him while Ash's Snivy went comparatively ignored, in spite of being given among of the strongest personalities of any of Ash's starters.
>>26335194
>compared to how the utter absurdity of how they acted in Sinnoh, Team Rocket were pretty decent villains
That's like comparing diarrhea to a hardened stool though. It's not the worst shit but it's still shit.
They need to scrap Team Rocket altogether at this point because they don't compliment the writing in any way unless it's a special episode. But they'll never do that.
>>26329751
Real talk, I would rail her with the force of Mega Fug
>>26328604
Of all the episodes of BW, the only ones I liked were the Battle Subway episodes.
>>26331170
>forgetting that full year of filler between Ash's 7th gym and his 8th gym
>implying As losing the league to legendary pokemon wasn't an asspull
>implying Dawn's reason for leaving wasn't complete Bullshit
DP was indeed awesome, don't get me wrong. But the writers fucked themselves by making Ash strong as hell and making Dawn look like she was going to be with Ash for the long haul (in a non shipping way)
>>26335044
>were delayed by a year.
Any explanation?
>>26334684
She bailed the school and wanted to go on her own. She had Axew and Excadrill with her.
>Axew could barely fight, and was still a baby.
>Excadrill stopped listening to her.
Also last time I checked, she only called people kids if their where around her age and where, prick or just plain goofy like Ash.
Calling her cunt because she a sucky life is wrong, especially if her only two moms we're a baby and a driller that doesn't listen to you.
There's a huge difference between inferiority complex and stress.
>>26334812
>Iris stopped calling out Ash's bullshit because it "promoted bullying"
Wait where did this come from?
Constant mind-numbing cutscenes, extremely slow progression, and worst of all, bad pokemon
It's still better than hoenn for several reasons, no stupid romance filler where brock's love interest doesn't go with some fat fuck named romeo. NO MAX . I've rewatched hoenn recently and its filler is far worse than BW's ever was and i despise hoenn now more than it
No harley and drew helps as well
Uncommon opinion but see for yourself
>>26328604
>Pros
Updated attack animations
Exponentially less Team Rocket, also theyre serious
Ash catches more than 6 pokes
Iris' fluffy fluff hair
No more filler contests
Dawn comes back for a while
>Cons
Team Rocket is serious but still just as boring
Female Unfezant, not the cool male one with the tassles
the disappointing Decolora islands/Reshiram arcs
Ash fails to fully evolve one of his starters again
Ash loses against a total doofus in the unova league, and the latter doesnt win, even if the winner wasn't some filler character
Cilan's a total fruit who was poor Brock replacement
>>26335261
>make the SERIES an more adaptation of the games but starring Ash and his dumb regional friends, with COTD filler to pad it out
>the TRio appear only on occasion, serving somewhat as "minibosses".
I think this would make it okay.
>>26336755
>>26339283
How is that bait? The anime was always shit.
>>26339421
>The anime was always shit.
Because it's a sick and twisted cruel anime.
It'll give you characters that you can grow to like and really want to see succeed, only for them to fail, and have the MC move on to another area where the previous main characters mean nothing anymore and Ash gets a reset so even more people will rag on you if you continue to watch.
This anime ending and having a satisfying conclusion would make everyone happy, the ones who hate it, the ones who like it, everyone.
>>26331548
Did we ever find out WHAT the GS ball was?
>>26329863
>>26331052
shit like this makes me weep.
>>26331771
true.
Maxie, Archie and Cyrus never had any personal pokemon they used which is a shame.
>>26339514
It was a ball that contained Celebi. Once they decided to have a movie centered around Celebi, they scrapped the GS ball plot.
>>26335492
Likely they needed extra dev time, could also be a marketing choice. It's explained rather well here on bulbanews
http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Traditional_games_put_on_hold%3F
>>26339514
Like the other anon said, the GS ball housed Celebi.
It was going to be like Meloetta or Zygarde and tag along with the group for a while.
Keep in mind, *that* Celebi was never planned to be the star of the movie, unlike how the more recent cameo mons have been given larger roles in movies and specials. Back then, it was decided Celebi needed to be withheld for the film. Might be due to Suicune's appearances in the series - they needed a 'new' mon.
>>26335492
I guess because Game Freak found the DS too hard for them
>>26339840
>>26335492
One other thing to add, that isn't mentioned here, and is useful context.
Pokemon Ranger was originally going to be titled "Pokemon Ranger - The Path to Diamond & Pearl". That title was scrapped around this time, and the 'path to DP' line started being used in a larger sense--even in reference to Emerald events.
>>26339866
>codename developers systems
>too hard
Nah, it's not that straightforward.
It could simply be their desire to add more than they properly planned for. When you introduce things like the GTS, you open up a whole can of worms that needs to be thoroughly tested.
>>26339753
Which made absolutely no fucking sense considering that they made an entire movie about Lugia, but then had an entire arc of the the Johto era of the anime, the same period that featured the GS Ball, revolve entirely around not just one, but TWO Lugias, who were just presumed to be different ones from the telepathic one in the movie.
>>26339907
>Lugia in movie, 1999
>Lugia in anime, 2000
>Celebi in anime, 2000 (proposed)
>Celebi in movie, 2001
Do you not into marketing?
Moreover, Lugia was MADE for the movie. It was created in part by folks at OEM and Shogakukan.
>>26339907
>who were just presumed to be different ones from the telepathic one in the movie
No, they were explicitly different. Do you not grasp how the word 'legendary' does not mean 'one of its kind'?
It's certainly not the first time a Psychic powers were initially used as a plot device and later glossed over, or used for comedy.
>>26339651
And so did Ghetsis, who didn't even have his Hydreigon.
>>26339651
>>26331771
>Lysandre doesn't get signature mon
>Cyrus doesn't get signature mon
>Maxie doesn't get signature mon
>Archie doesn't get signature mon
>Giovanni is given a new signature mon
>Hunter J laughs all the way to the bank
>>26340042
Meanwhile, Lysandre has been shown with his Pyroar and also grabbing the Mega Gyaradosite that Alan found him. All that's left is for him to get into a battle during the climax and use them.
>>26340069
>>Lysandre doesn't get signature mon
Neither best girl nor best boy appeared in it.
>>26340151
my god i hate lysanro he so evil grrrrr
>>26339498
THAT'S WHY I WANT SERENA TO STAY!!!!!!!!
>>26340042
>no final battle with Ghetsis with an anime remix of his fight theme
That was pathetic. I'm glad we have Based Director now.
>>26340261
>implying that's bad thing
>when a lot of characters were butchered to say the least
Crossing the Skyarrow Bridge in the game was one of the most exciting, uplifting moments in ANY of the Pokémon games.
So why the fuck did they turn the episode where they cross the bridge in the show into a sad, dark, downer episode about a girl and her Pokémon coping with loss, separation, and the loss of their friend's livelihood.
We didn't even get the Skyarrow Bridge theme.It was a good episode though, it was just lame that it caused the Skyarrow Bridge episode to become a downer
Also, Castelia City was generic as fuck, it looked nothing like lower Manhattan, AT ALL, and considering the level of detail they put into making the part of New York that Nacrene City is based on look EXACTLY like the comparison photos that get posted here from time to time, there's no excuse.
They made Castelia City look like every other "big city" they've visited in the anime since Goldenrod.
At least they fixed this in the last Unova based movie.
>>26341022
That was the Gothitelle episode, right?
I thought one was pretty solid. Sure, it deviated, but so did the episode with Bill's Lighthouse, and I felt both episodes captured the feeling of stillness and mystery.
That was probably the last episode of the series I've really enjoyed.
>>26328604
>Oshawott
>Ash catching billions of Pokemon resulting in some of them not getting any screentime (mostly due to the fucking clown otter taking all the spotlight)
>recycled Fire starter plot
>barely any evolutions
>too many rivals
>hyped Axew evolution that turned out to be nothing because animators literally admitted they were too lazy to draw Fraxure/Haxorus walking or fighting and not sitting in Iris hair all the time
>cancelled Plasma vs Rocket arc
>stock animation overuse
Thats all I can remember before I stopped watching this shitshow somewhere around Meloetta's arc
>>26341159
If they just used some non-game-canon bridge for the same idea and still had a Skyarrow Bridge experience reflective of the game, I wouldn't shake two shits at it, I actually regard it as among the top 10 episodes of the entire series.
>That was probably the last episode of the series I've really enjoyed.
I think that was the second to last episode before the Rocket Vs. Plasma disaster.
>>26341242
>I think that was the second to last episode before the Rocket Vs. Plasma disaster.
That explains it, I don't think I followed it regularly after the 3/11 shenanigans.
I guess using another bridge would've been cleaner, but to go back to my point about Cerulean Cape, I don't think that episode would've been the same had it not greatly recontextualized Bill's cottage as a lighthouse.
For many kids, that *was* Bill's house, and it supplemented (and supplanted) the in-game scenario.
My bias for the BW game scenarios is too strong, so I can't look at the anime without being a blithering puritan, but trying to remove that context I feel like I would've had a similar view had I watched Best Wishes as a kid.
>>26328604
I've been wondering this, could gen 5 unpopularity be partially attributed to the widely criticised anime that aired during that time? I know many people here don't give a single shit about the anime (and rightfully so) but you have to remember how powerful of a tool the show really is in shaping the opinions of the younger parts of the fanbase eg. Charizard popularity among the genwunners, Greninja winning the popularity poll in Japan etc. Gen 5 never really had an "iconic" Pokemon comparable to these two. I can't help but feel the two are somehow connected.
>>26341242
>>26341269
To add to this, recall the Cycling Road episode from Kanto. Which, coincidently, is another one of my favourite episodes (retcons aside).
They look a straight shot route with bikers and turned it into a Team Rocket focus episode, fleshing out their backstories, and had a 'jumping the gorge' climax.
The only thing carried over from the games was 'setting is cycling road, and bikers are on the route'.
The anime need not stick that close to the games in order to excel.
>>26341321
No.
Many of the people complaining about Best Wishes have a preference for the Unova games.
Unless you're talking about casuals, but they seem to have been deterred by Garbodor and Vanillite, not the anime.
>>26341332
>>26341269
My criticism of the Skyarrow Bridge episode wasn't that they "added" things to it or even changed things from the game, that's literally mandatory given that this is an adaptation.
My problem was with the MOOD.
In the game, they WERE gangsters on the bridge, in the games, we see that Bill is fascinated with Pokemon and uses the idea that its a lighthouse where he watches the sea for new Pokémon to reinforce this.
My criticism of the Skyarrow Bridge episode was that they took an optimistic, light moment from the game, into a very sentimental, somewhat dark and spooky one.
I actually love the episode anyway because it actually made COTD's into interesting characters, was very "feelsy" as the kids say these days, and I actually grew up in a town there a ferry was replaced by a bridge when I was young, so it was actually really nostalgic too.
>>26341392
That's a fair point, but with something like Cerulean Cape, we are able to project that onto a rather bland environment and a few lines of dialogue.
With some exceptions, later games try harder to convey a certain feeling with their environments and music. This is partly to due to technical advancement, but also to do with giving areas their own flavour.
In some ways, this helps the anime. From what I've seen of XY, they really did well to replicate the Kalos environments. However, such strict adherence to the source can be a detriment when the writers and animators want to do something for their genre and format, rather than porting game scenarios over to the cartoon.
When almost every area in Gen 5 and 6 conveys a theme and tone, it removes any question from how they should be presented in the anime. Both for the viewers and animators, this could become tiresome.
Remember how radically different some towns and cities looked in Kanto or Johto? It was surprising, and as a viewer, I always wanted to see more of it.
>>26340069
>>26341465
Yeah, I fucked up.
Did I mean Ghetsis? Did he have something?
Regardless, the point still stands. It's been a long time coming.
>>26341465
adding to that, in the last Strongest Mega Evolution episode he's shown with a gyaradosite
>>26341474
>Did Ghetsis have anything?
Nope. Not even an Eelektross or Cofagrigus.
>>26341508
Hah, that's fucking awful.
Then I totally meant Ghetsis in that list.
Did he at least have some connection to the Genesect movie?
>>26341508
I rember that xe was using a Liepard.
Team Rocket vs. Team Plasma didn't get to air.
I am convinced it was something extremely important and plot-changing, and that's why they haven't aired it.
>>26341576
>I am convinced it was something extremely important and plot-changing, and that's why they haven't aired it.
You're probably also convinced about chemtrails and toxins in your water. Not everything is a conspiracy.
You're right that it would've rdically changed the plot - Rocket trio would've come out of the special having reverted to their old ways.
Earthquake has been banned from the anime ever since 2005. We never got the Wishcash episode in any form.
With this higher budget special, parts of it were cannibalised for later productions. The CGI rig for the Desert Resort was used for a Meloetta episode, and the infamous 'Liepard Hyper Beams from helicopter' frames were repurposed for one of the BW opening sequences.
>pierce was retconned from existence
>cloaked figure never seen (tobias? Trip)
>>26341648
>Wishcash episode
That episode was scrapped in favor for the fisherman trying to capture a wishcash via masterball,but failed.
>>26341672
>cloaked figure
You mean three cloaked figures. You mean the Shadow Triad.
Totally forgot about Pierce though. I guess he was going to get BTFO in the special (to keep the scope and threat limited), and that's probably why the trio stopped trying so hard. If you barely try, you can't get crushed.
>>26341456
>In some ways, this helps the anime. From what I've seen of XY, they really did well to replicate the Kalos environments. However, such strict adherence to the source can be a detriment when the writers and animators want to do something for their genre and format, rather than porting game scenarios over to the cartoon.
>When almost every area in Gen 5 and 6 conveys a theme and tone, it removes any question from how they should be presented in the anime. Both for the viewers and animators, this could become tiresome.
It just takes some effort, but it can still be done and the XY anime is a magnificent example with places being both faithful to the games in terms of appearence and lore, but with lots being added to them to make them unique.
For instance, Reflection Cave looked close to the games but they added a legend about the mirrors connecting parallel worlds with Ash being pulled into an alternate universe where he met a different version of himself and his friends.
The scam "Scary House" before Laverre was turned into a legit haunted mansion where a man still told the gang the "faceless men" ghost story from the games but he himself turned out to be a ghost.
The Lost Hotel with Rotom in it was turned into a run-down hotel taken over by hooligans years earlier and Rotom makes the gang travel through time to when the hotel was in its prime so that they could stop the hotel from being taken over in the first place. I could go on.
>>26328604
just about everything
>>26341693
Sure, in terms of having the mon appear in an episode. But in terms of reusing scenarios, storyboards, and scripts? That one seems wholly separate.
The very concept sounds like a stock plot: "a Master Ball is (finally) used, but eaten instead". It also seems like it'd be more befitting for Pelipper or Swalot.
>no team plasma until Episode N
>Instead of Ash learning of his mistakes, he got dumb, like FIRST SEASON
>Iris and Cilan are just Misty and Brock reboots
>They messed up the plot when BW2 was released, they just mixed it
>Dumb jokes and 9yo comedy
Best Wishes is a bad reboot of the Original series, they tried to enthrall kids but they forgot the kids who grew watching pokemon. Advenced and DP were great bc Ash evolve as a character, but in BW he went downhill.
Only Meloetta arc and N's arc were good, also i loved how team rocket got smarter and how other characters evolved like the riolu guy or the eevee guy, but Ash didn't.
Defending this crap is autism, most pokefans agree that BW was shit.
>>26341731
That all sounds really fucking awesome. I should give this series a watch.
From what I've seen, there's some progression as well, eh? The thing I liked most about DP was how we'd get episodes months or even years apart that built on concepts from previous ones. Felt like the characters weren't as static.
>>26328604
Ash was dumbed down to be an absolute idiot.
Iris was a god damn annoying mary sue who got so much shit thrown her way because of that.
They abandoned Iris' goal of evolving Axew and shifted it to Dragon Master.
Gym battles were basically Unova team sucks, here's Pikachu, until Krokorok showed up.
Ash's pokemon received little development like Snivy and Boldore, or were forgotten entirely like Unfezant, with the exceptions of Krookodile, Leavanny, and Oshawott.
Trip was a faggot and a major departure from Paul.
Cameron.
Ash being inept at gym battles, the Roxie being the worst offender.
Team Rocket being horribly handled after the earthquake.
Dragonite ex machina.
Cameron.
Ash vs Trip being a 1v1 battle
Ash purposefully battling with type disadvantages to prove a point.
Cameron.
Dawn showing up for a tiny arc and then doing nothing that entire time.
The fillers were shit and most episode progressions were garbage.
The show had no plot until Episode N and even then, the Team Plasma arc was a let down.
Ash losing to Cameron, especially that bullshit Riolu.
Literally, the best episodes of BW were:
1. The return of charizard when it beats the unholy fuck out of mary sue dragonite
2. Ash vs Stefan
3. When Krokorok evolved into Krookodile to defeat mary sue dragonite
4. Introduction of Alexa signalling the end of BW
5. When BW ended.
>>26328604
OH
AND OVERUSE OF FUCKING SPEEDLINES
So how's the XY anime? Is it worth watching?
I stopped after Best Wishes because it got so disappointing I just couldn't keep going.
>>26330957
Honestly, they might have helped the series.
Don't know why they decided to go with dull and duller for the side characters.
>>26341817
Based on the Best Wishes prerelease special, and how excited they were to be working with CG, this was intentional. BW was a turning point in terms of composited CGI effects, and this applies to the speedlines as well.
They were trying really hard to make the show look flashier, and I guess this might play a role in why the 2D animation was more lacklustre -- they were focusing on the wrong places.
The anime was never good.
>>26341859
Top kek
>>26341785
You should, it's great. Come over to the Pokémon Anime Discussion Thread if you need pointers on where to find subs/viewing order/where the movies fit in and the like.
As for progression, they did something different and pretty exciting. They ran special episodes called The Strongest Mega Evolution alongside XY with a different protagonist (unwittingly) working under Team Flare and eventually crossed it over with XY (which is when XY became XY&Z), bringing Team Flare into the main plot and with said protagonist becoming Ash's rival. There are other examples of progression too, but this is the most long-standing so far.
Also, this is an Ash who can go toe-to-toe with the champion.
>>26341905
Yeah, I'm aware of the Mega specials and Alan character, and the way they've weaved him into the main series (and even the games). Didn't know about him working for Flare though, so that's kind of neat to learn.
Will pop into the general once I'm a caught up to avoid any spoilers. Not so worried about the big beats, more worried about the small surprised and visual gags.
Also, since you posted the Mega Gardy, I have to ask: have they gone back to editing footage for the dub? I know that post-Porygon the first 36 were edited, and the post 37 never saw unedited broadcast even in Japan, but why the fuck are they still doing this now that they run videos through software to ensure there aren't too many variable frames?
Not that I need another reason to avoid the dub, but I'm quite curious as someone who once tried to collect and catalogue all of the anime.Fucking 4D shorts ruining my autistic goals
>>26341855
Well yay to working with CG but all of the speedlines is absolute garbage.
>>26341836
XY is on the same level as DP. Some may even argue that it's better than DP, but that's a nest of hornets that you better be brave to disturb.
>>26341905
When did XY become good? Can you give me a specific episode to start at?
I stopped watching after around ten episodes of XY because it quite frankly felt like the same garbage from Best Wishes.
>>26342005
>Well yay to working with CG but all of the speedlines is absolute garbage.
I have some sympathy to folks who're made to work with new mediums. There's understandably a period of learning and adjustment, and the techniques that look good in 2D might not look good in 3D.
That doesn't excuse it looking bad, just speaks to why it might've been the case.
>>26342049
I agree with you there, and I understand the reasoning, but combine that with lazy writing, lazy TR plots, shitty Ash, and an overall decrease in quality, and it doesn't look like a smart decision on their part to do that then
>>26340903
>Not butchered
Does saying "BLAAAAAACK" bring a bell to you? :^)
>>26342096
I fully agree, when you put all the faults together they become inextricable from one another to most people. It just makes something that's 'bad' become 'even worse'.
Mind you, I think it was a really good idea to have the animated series take the same approach as the games, which was 'harken back to the feeling of playing for the first time'.
The problem is, when you take that simplistic formula, and then add on character regression that fans disliked, and then add on animation growing pains, and then add on plot contrivances that catered to new fans (the Koffing thing leaps to mind), and it just comes off as a series trying too hard, and not actually reaching anybody they tried to target.
>>26342035
I can't really give you a specific episode since for instance I really like the first two episodes and really everything up to the seventh. If one were to point a gun to my head, I'd say it probably hits its stride when Ash catches Hawlucha (XY35). Ash has a decent variety of mons from that point on, the first rivals are introduced soon afterwards, Serena settles on her dream and there is the balls-to-the-wall amazing Pikachu vs Mega Lucario in the Shalour gym.
>>26341996
I avoid the dub like the plague so I wouldn't know. It hasn't reached the Gardevoir episode I posted the pic from yet so I don't know if they'll alter it anyway. I don't think there have been any visual edits aside from possibly toning down bright colors. Oh, actually they took out a few kanji that "burst" out of Korrina when she mega-evolves Lucario in the gym battle (XY44), but that's all I know.
>>26342310
Removing Kanji is pretty standard, but if you look at the Mega evolution scene, they do the same 'add black frame with opacity' thing whenever a flash occurred. Not even a colours thing, back in the day, we'd get it every time a Pokeball opened or Pikachu used an attack. Recall anytime a Pokeball opened - it was as if the light was sucked out of the scene.
But that all went away prior to/around the switch to digital colouring, back in Johto. We never had that during AG, DP, or BW, but they seem to have brought it back now.
Fucking bonkers, I say.
>>26342430
Ayyy took you long enough
>>26336592
What. Harley was one of the most popular rivals in the series.
Gonna take a guess and say lack of waifu.
May, Dawn and Serena are all pretty popular
>>26343534
This. He was pretty much my favourite thing about AG, arguably the one thing that kept me watching.
The sagas:
DP/XY > Kanto/Orange > AG > Johto > BW
Of course your mileage might vary, some like XY more than DP. Others will prefer Kanto's comical nature the most, some like AG more due to May, etc.
>>26344132
Objectively correct tiering.
Is BW really that bad? I haven't watched it but at least it had the benefit of having new villains even if underused, new main characters and a fresh coat of paint. It can't possibly be worse than Johto.
Or do people forget how awful most of Johto was? It was a 3+ year region with Ash acting as incompetent as always, Misty became useless and her personality was sucked up by togepi, Brock was just there to do his recurring gags and all they could do is stretch the generation with only gym badges and no story arcs the whole time. Kanto had no other story arcs but it was half as long and at that time Brock/Misty had more personality and hadn't been flanderized. I do think Johto got better during its last season Master Quest since it included a short story arc and the league which was decent.
I was going to watch BW but TPC pulled it from Netflix to replace it with XY for whaetever reason they can't let you watch more than two "generations" on Netflix.
>>26344571
The very beginning and tail-end of Johto was actually fairly decent, its only the whole middle of Johto that was bogged down in filler hell. That and Misty getting bland and Ash's Johto pokemon not developed properly is what brought it down compared to the other arcs.
Oh this thread is this up, surprising.
Eh, I like this series more then DP and XY although it'll be hard for me to say that without it coming off like i'm just trolling, so is anyone interested in me explaining why I liked BW more then DP and XY?
If you guys don't, that's fine but I thing it's a good thing to get some perspective one why someone enjoys this season, just saying.
>>26345481
i'm definitely interested
>>26345481
Well I already explain the whole Ash was reset thing earlier on this page so look that up if you're interested.
If I had to sum up the reasons why I liked BW more then XY and DP, it would be-
1.I thought Iris has a whole is a better Character then both Dawn and Serena, mainly because she's not overly girly but still likes those type of things.
2.Cilan was a good replacement for Brock has I found this tasting jokes for the most part funny.
3.I liked the fact that all three of them had rivals, some where hit or miss but some of them where really interesting.
4.I liked it more when Ash thinks of something in the middle of battle on the spot more then what he did in DP, I personally think it works bettter for him.
5.Ash's Pokemon have a lot of character to them, more so then the ones in DP.
6.I loved the BG and openings where awesome to listen to.
7.I liked the fact that this version of N actually when out of his way to help Pokemon, instead of bitching like he does in the games.
8.For a rushed 13 episode arc, I thought the Team Plasma arc was handled fairly well.
9. I just enjoy watching the series has a whole, that's rare for me to enjoy anime the whole way thought.
Series had a [spoilers]nigger[/spoilers]. Duh.
>>26346537
>mainly because she's not overly girly but still likes those type of things.
So Misty?
I fing hilarious how the (few) BW fans have convived each other that everything bad about the show was because of the cancelled two parter, like, get real people.
>>26346537
1. Iris as a whole is a mary sue who was given super strong pokemon and she barely developed the pokemon she did have. If your idea of being a better character than two protagonists who have had both character and pokemon development arcs is someone who is not purely waifu bait, then maybe your standards are mired in viewing female protagonists as eye candy.
2. Cilan was a good replacement for Brock, but then again almost anyone was. DP Brock was worthless and the only time he was useful was the episode when he needed to get medicine and tried to give Gliscor a piggyback ride. So once again, low standards.
3. If the rival is a miss, then that's a detriment to the story. Overloading the story on poor characters is not equal to having only a few rivals with excellent characters.
4. Ash's strategy in BW was garbage and he had numerous horrible battles during BW as compared to DP. In DP, Ash was competent and arguably was the second best trainer in the entire league tournament after Tobias. BW Ash lost to a retarded trainer who only had 5 pokemon, but Ash had 6.
5. Are you kidding me? What development did Boldore, Palpitoad, and Unfezant go through? None of them had "character" compared to DP mons. Plus, most of Ash's pokemon had stagnant characters and saw no development.
6. Dub openings or original openings?
7. Well of course N was fleshed out more and more visible, anime N doesn't appear only every few towns to battle you and was with Ash every episode for an entire arc. There is nothing to suggest that N wouldn't go out of his way to help Pokemon in the games either.
8. They hyped the shit out of Reshiram v Charizard and it never happened. And the Team Plasma arc was not rushed at that point, it was an afterthought.
9. Watching the series as a whole was tough, brutal, and I would wish it on no person.
>>26328631
You're such a kid, Anon.
>>26343574
>Harley over Drew
Are you mentally ill?
>>26346802
>mary sue
please go back to TV Tropes and see what a Mary Sue is
>>26347162
I tried to do as you said and the whole thing just reeks of more autism than bulbapedia trivia.
If you watched the show you'd understand how some no-fuck trainer had 2 OP pokemon who were super strong and her other pokemon learned all the cool and strong moves because she's awesome and ash is stoopid because iris can do no fucking wrong.
>>26347225
only one pokemon was Overpowered
>>26347252
Her Mary Sue Dragonite.
Axew learned fucking Outrage in a single battle to pull out a win against a Golett.
Excadrill was some OHKO badass with the 99 wins.
Quit baiting you faggot.
>>26347281
>Axew
>outrage
citation needed.
>>26347481
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Iris's_Axew
Lazy underage namefaggot
Iris
Cameron
Trip
Ash being dumb again
Iris
Horrible Battles
Rivals not getting better send offs
Iris
Dawn returning which would have be been if she returned in XY instead of BW
Iris
Shitty Gym Battles
Iris
>>26333892
>SU
>>26347281
Why did that dragonite looked angry as fuck all the time?
>>26346802
1.Iris's Dragonite could have used more development but I though the development we got for it was fine, Ii have no idea what you're talking with the waifu stuff so meh.
2.Still Cilan was pretty and badass when he needed to be.
3.The only rivals that I thought needed to be fleshed out more was Cameron and Vergil, everyone else was fine.
4. Ash was still kicking ass in this region, his battle with Cameron in the league wouldn't be so bad if we seen more of Cameron's trainer skills, he could have been the goofy but still badass rival, the league was rush and I hated that it was rushed so that's i'll say about that.
5. No development? Have you watch the whole series? Most of them get development! although I will agree that some need more screech time like bolddore.
6. Both.
7. Yeah but it was nice to she in him action.
8. I was little disappointed too but I this thought the arc came out good, could have it been better? Yes, but it could have turned out worst and i'm glad it didn't.
9. It fun and I had a blast watching it.
I would love to got into detail on why Iris isn't a Mary sue, interested?
>>26348400
>More SU
>>26348692
Cameron was a damn idiot who had no place in the league. He only won because the writers decided to give him Lucario.
>>26331844
Iris is cute. CUTE
>>26329739
>>26329751
I actually liked Georgia and Burgundy's designs a lot. Shame we'll never ever see them again.
>"New Places... Familiar Faces!"
>they went back to a place they've been before
>they meet a new trainer qt
Why was shit like this allowed?
>>26335337
>>26328604
A lot.
>>26328697
BW were the worst games to date and the anime series were the worst to date, so stfu.
Can't belive I stuck up for it at the begining and Pikachu losing to Snivy by saying that it was obviously going to be part of ongoing plot with Zekrom
>>26354696
>Pikachu losing to Snivy
Didn't pikachu have electric-AIDS during that episode or something?
>>26354632
>BW were the worst games to date
Gen V is tied with 1 for including the most pokemon.
>>26354733
Not tied, gen V has more. But I don't see how that matters fag.
>>26346802
Actually, if there's one reason I really like XYZ, it's that scenes in the opening are actually happening in the series itself.
Ash's self doubt is actually pretty great to see, and it tells a lot about his character. He doesn't tell anyone about this, never even pikachu, presumably because he does not want them to worry about him"
>>26354817
Not even*
I enjoyed Black and White, so fuck this bait ass thread.
even best girl wasnt safe
They knew Iris was annoying as fuck. They tried to redeem her that one episode by saying she grew up with any friends to make us feel sorry for her or whatever. But she was still annoying as fuck.cute though
>>26355280
There is absolutely nothing wrong with Game Iris. It's just the anime that ruined her.
>>26342388
I dropped XY around the time Fennekin evolved cause of IRL shit, but I remember that the UK airings do that thing you mentioned with dulling brightness. I watched sub and dub and it's extremely noticeable with the UK stuff. Likely trying to avoid another porygon incident
Speaking of the dub, they are on the ep where Ash fights Alain for the first time. Is that XYZ19? Lisa Ortiz was supposed to be taking over directing at that point and I wanted to check that out.
Lastly, I did see that the dub BGM is still retardedly quiet. On the flipside, is the Sub BGM still retardedly loud? I foind it baffling that the show has shit audio mixing regardless of country
>>26355881
XY&Z13. XY&Z19 is the first part of the Tripokalon Master Class.
>>26331637
>>Ash's team was 90% jokemon with cancers such as Oshawott and Scraggy. Only capable mons were Pignite, Leavanny, Palpitoad, Boldore and Krookodile but most of them were constantly left to rot at Juniper's.
>forgetting based Snivy
Other than that you're right.
>>26354632
How's it feel being wrong dipshit?
>>26355930
Shieeet. Got a ways to go then. Eh, I gotta catch up with entirety of the "kalos quest" season anyway as well as the start of XYZ.
Are sub torrents for older XY episodes still healthy? Not gonna bother if they're dead
>>26355984
They should be, I never see anyone asking for seeds in the anime thread. I don't know why you keep torturing yourself with the dub though.
It was too fast. I actually really liked the series at the start. Iris and Cilan are decent characters, they both had their own rivals and there were regular small tournaments where this cast of characters would get to show their progress. But they rushed everything, some characters didn't even get a proper send off before being ditched.
>>26356003
I actually only have one quality fault wuth the dub, that being that the BGM score is fairly weak. It's odd because I actually got to talk to the composer and he comes off as genuinely loving his job, and being proud of his work. I think the OPs for XY are GOAT but he's totally using an unfitting direction for the main score.
The sub score is markedly better (aside from the third OP which is awful), but tends to go over the top on drama every now and then. Only quality fault is that I find the voice selection to be overall worse. The rest is just technical things (again shit audio mixing on both sides of the ocean) and problems with XY as a whole.
They're all minor gripes at best and none of them are dealbreakers. I enjoy comparing the two and seeing how they handle different things.
I MIGHT peek in the anime thread again. I used to frequent there, but between the endless amour circlejerking, and the absurd ease in which trolls run rampant (they are ASTONISHINGLY bad at ignoring trollbait)I found the overall environment to be toxic.
>>26356182
The anime thread is still shit, don't bother.
This series was the one where Jesse and James actually got their shit together and started doing things right?
I really liked that.
>>26356680
only the first 2 seasons of BW.
