>gen 1
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You are currently reading a thread in /vp/ - Pokemon
>gen 1
>>26316679
Are you complaining about the moveset of a pokemon who was only meant to use one move? Next you're going to complain about Majikarp aren't you?
>>26316679
>Implying move pools haven't always been retarded
Reminder that
>Gabite can't learn Bite
>Infernape can't learn Inferno
>Solrock can't lean Morning Sun
>Lunatone can't learn Moonlight
>Pidgey STILL can't learn Peck
>>26316731
>wanting infernape to learn that shitstain of a move
>>26316713
LMAO
>>26316731
>Scyther cant learn Fly
>>26316731
BUT IT MAKES SUCH PERFECT SENSE.
JUST
Gen 2 has exactly the same problem and to some extent gen 3 as well.
Long live reusable TMs
>>26316731
>those last two points
They could in the Dream World.
I really wish they would add Dream World exclusive moves to their actual move pools. I want Inferno Mismagius.
>>26316731
>Drowzee, the pokemon based on a mythical dream-eating being, with an episode dedicated to this concept, DOESN'T NATURALLY LEARN DREAM EATER
>Axew cant learn bite
>A literal mini dragon with obvious powerful jaws doesnt learn bite.
>>26316747
>Growlithe can't learn Growl
>>26316752
>muh competitive
>>26316758
Scyther barely ever flies.
This >>26316769 however, is bullshit.
>Rapidash can't learn Extremespeed
>Gastly can't learn Poison Gas
>Zangooze can't learn Cut
>Ariados can't learn Poison Fang
>Roserade can't learn Vine Whip
>>26316754
Was there another move you wanted to have on it? Dig via TM is basically all you needed. Remember that power creepnhadnt happened yet, STAB moves were less common as well.
>>26316802
Guess I should've stated that, but still bullshit regardless.
>>26316826
And Slash essentially had STAB since it almost always critted.
>>26316840
>wanting your ground type to get shit on by rock types
>Butterfree can't learn any bug moves
>>26316822
Scyther is part flying type so it must fly.
>>26316802
>>26316835
Dream World moves can be used ingame. I've used a Morning Sun Solrock as well as face an Inferno Mismagius.
>>26316854
what is String Shot? :^)
>Karate Chop is a normal move
>>26316840
Basically this, yeah. Since speed was tied to crits, crit moves had much more power.
>>26316853
Nigga did you read the post you replied to it did you just ignore where I said to give it Dig?
>>26316858
>Gyrados must learn fly
>>26316860
In Gen 5.
>>26316854
There were only two bug type moves in gen1, Butterfree knows half of them. It's moves are better off for not having them.
>>26316858
The only bugs that learn Fly aren't part Flying.
>Espeon can't learn Solar Beam
>Umbreon can't learn Moonblast
>>26316884
>implying it must not
>>26316899
>Helioptile can't learn Sunny Day or Solar Beam
LOL
>Zangoose can't learn Agility
https://youtu.be/OyuIAUlL5IU?t=2m21s
>>26316937
Again, what the fuck else did you want it to learn? Remember that in gen1 moves like Hyper Beam and Sky Attack didn't need to recharge if you fainted your opponent with them. Seriously not one of these movesets you screenshot seems out of place or terrible.
>>26316937
>Learns god damn FIRE AND PSYCHIC moves
>Not one Rock move
>Stingulor can't learn Poison Sting
>>26316937
>>26316976
Reminder Nidoking is a fucking wizard.
>>26316973
>sky attack
>recharging
That's not how Sky Attack works you little shit
>>26316731
>can't learn fire punch
>>26316973
You're not looking at the levels
>Having to train it to 54 just of hyper beam
It has to put up with a 35 BP move until level 38 when it has to put up with a 60 unstabbed move.
See: >>26316976
>>26316976
There's only two rock moves in all of gen 1. His moveset is fine, and is actually much cooler without them. It's fits the dragon motif better.
>>26316998
Nidoking needs a mega at this point, it could probably be a fucking powerhouse with that Movepool but it's got mediocre stats IIRC.
>>26317013
35BP with STAB is plenty in gen1, remember again that power creep hadn't happened yet, Aerodactyl was a powerhouse.
>>26317014
>I-it's totally fine the Rock Pokemon doesn't learn not even one Rock move, it's not like it needs them!
Fucking Kanto defenders I swear to god.
>>26317016
Nidoking got screwed when they removed it's Hustle from previous evolutions, the thing even learns Hone Claws to counter it.
>>26317040
Would it be better if every rock Pokemon had the same two moves?
In the early games STAB was less common, and that was intentional. It was supposed to be your finishing move, or your haymaker, not something everyone just got.
>>26317039
>Aerodactyl was a powerhouse.
>is UU in Gen I Meta
>people still complain about shit like Infernape not learning Inferno despite the fact that we all know the localization team has nothing to do with the move pool balance team
God damn this board
>>26317055
It's better than NOTHING.
>Scrafty cannot learn Sucker Punch nor Beat Up
Inferno's Japanense name is Purgatory
Pokemon has the deepest lore
>>26317042
>wanting hustle
>not using based sheer force life orb
>>26317112
>Giratina doesn't learn it
>>26317097
It's not nothing, it knows plenty of moves, just not STAB moves. This was the way things were in gen1 and it fit in just fine. That was kind of the allure of normal types, never being SU but nearly always having STAB, and almost never being resisted. It was just a different game back then.
If these Pokemon and movesets were released today, I'd agree with you. I'm not a genwunner, I agree that today's games are still good and I like the more varied movesets, but you can't judge old movesets by a modern understanding of the game.
>>26317168
>wanting 30% boost to a few specific moves
>not wanting 50% boost to every physical move
>>26317112
Can Persian learn it?
>>26317264
Do you know what Purgatory is?
>>26317278
>Purrgatory
>>26317222
>sheer force boosts by 30% then life orb boosts that by another 30%
>somehow less than 50% boost
learn to multiply, a base 100 move become 150 with hustle or 169 with life orb sheer force
>>26317315
What's stopping you from using life orb with Hustle? Works pretty well for Durant.
>>26317315
Not him but Sheer Force + Life Orb will boost a move that fit the criteria by 69%; but Hustle + Life Orb will boost any physical move by 95% IIRC. Hone Claws will patch up the accuracy drop.
>>26317315
Ceteris paribus
Shitty movesets is the only reason older games seem more difficult. You had to go through the game with Tackle and Ember while nowadays you get lots of good moves early on.
>>26316731
also mew cant learn crabhammer
>>26317332
i run a spec atk nidoking is what
>>26317357
You do realize that this didn't actually increase difficulty since all your opponents had the same tools, right?
>>26317357
But it's still on even ground with the opponent who only has Tackle and Ember. Sometimes Peck.
>>26317445
Movesets used by opponents are still pretty trash. Some trainers/gym leaders don't even have 4 attacks on their Pokemon. What made it even easier was reusable TMs and strong egg moves.
>>26317372
Yes it can
>>26316921
helioptile is cursed forever with being a gen too late. Same with zoroark.
>>26317903
What does that mean?
>>26318002
Zoroark's ability is rendered useless by the fact that the other players can see your entire team at the start of battle.
In Gen I, TMs are much more valuable because Pokemon rarely learned STAB moves and practically none had coverage. You would often only get one of each TM as well, so you had to plan out who got what beforehand lest you get fucked over by not having any decent TMs.
It's a very different system compared to the current one, and I find it pretty interesting. I can see how it would trigger someone who is used to Pokemon having gigantic learnsets these days and taking STAB for granted.
>>26316679
>glitch makes ghost immune to psychic
>only bug is super effective to psychic
>only 2 bug moves in the game
>only 1 pokemon learned each move
>beedrill with twinneedle
>and fucking jolteon with pin missle.
don't get me wrong, jolteon was one of the best pokemon in gen 1 but it's still bullshit
>>26318331
Psychic immune to ghost*
sry
>>26318331
Good thing there's only 2 good psychic mons in the game.
>>26318331
Psychic wasn't immune to ghost. The only offensive ghost type with Base Power in Gen 1 was Lick.
>>26318465
Remember that even Jynx scared everyone on Gen 1 with bullshit Blizzard and Psychic.
i'm just gonna skip right to the shit
>>26318501
Yeah, and if you tried using Lick on a Psychic type, it did nothing. It was immune.
>>26318501
Oh, you sweet summer child...
>>26318465
Literally every Psychic type mon in gen 1 was either great or still better-than-average. The only one I can think of that wasn't top-tier is Hypno.
>>26316679
>>26318572
B-BUT MUH TIERNO!
>>26318572
and here i was terrified of him as a child.
>>26318572
With the exception of Arcanine, that team is still a decent threat back then.
>>26318640
>LEER
>TAIL WHIP
>A 5-PP OHKO MOVE THAT MISSES HALF THE TIME AND WILL NEVER WORK ON ANYTHING ABOVE ITS OWN LEVEL
>DECENT THREAT
L
M
A
O
>>26318640
>that team is still a decent threat back then.
Blastoise and Alakazam are, and only 50% of the time. The rest are absolute garbage.
>>26318677
Horn drill doesn't effect a target who's Speed is above the user's, not level. And do not underestimate a Fury Attack from a Rhydon, it's attack stat is absolutely rediculous for gen1.
>>26318682
Yeah sure if you're judging them by today's standards, but as many people have said so far, it was a different game back then and most of those moves are fine.
>>26318682
>Implying
Exeggutor would be unbeatable if it weren't slow as fuck.
>>26316937
>35BP Wing Attack
Holy shit, seriously? I guess since this is the same generation where DIG has the same base power as EARTHQUAKE.
>>26318682
>>26318677
you gotta remember, your pokemon were probably worse.
>>26318738
This. You basically absolutely have to hit it with some flying or fire move to touch it, and its a huge threat until you do.
>>26318572
Blue's starter is Venusaur, dumbass
>I-it was different back then! You just don't understand!
Every time
Genwunners truly are the worst
>>26318751
Pretty sure that's Rhydon. I don't know what the point of posting this was though.
>>26318771
A genwunner would say "it was better back then", a realist says it was a different game with different standards.
>>26316769
What's the problem here? Your character isn't an adult.
>>26318751
I saw the field of Normal type moves and assumed Scyther, but I'd recognize that string anywhere: It's RHYHORN.
>>26318791
A realist says it's retarded, no excuses.
Only a genwunner pretends that "limitations" caused RBY Blue to have the absolute worst Champion team.
Even Diantha's four Pokemon are better than Blue's six.
>>26318572
So play yellow
>>26318821
She doesn't. Back then there weren't a lot of powerful moves or their distribution was very limited. You're just a stupid kid who doesn't know better, so no hard feelings.
>>26318821
we know it's retarded. but we all played the game and remember that every bit of it was similarly retarded.
I fucking hated kanto and it's pokemon save for like 4 but i know that it was a different game back then.
>>26318780
I thought we were posting dumb shit gen 1 did like retarded movesets and the like. The fact that Rhyhorn/don only learned normal type moves via level-up back thenand one of them is Leer at level 55is hilarious, especially since it already learned Tail Whip at level 35.
>>26318821
Don't make up false arguments, nobody was talking about limitations at all.
The fact is that the general philosophy was different. Normal moves were called normal because they were the most common, every mon was meant to have at least some normal moves on them. Typed and STAB moves were meant to be the showstopper moves, or the hallmark of that Pokemon, and one of the biggest reasons people took their starters to the E4 was because of the ease of access to typed moves. TMs were meant to make up the difference. The low BP of the moves was common and acceptable at the time, there wasn't power creep yet and so having 90bp moves on every mon wasn't a necessity. Ember on a fire mon could take you through five gyms worth of game time.
>>26318855
At least you admit it's retarded.
Unlike this blinded genwunner >>26318853
He simply refuses to believe that his game is flawed in any way.
>>26318572
I blame gamefreak for giving every opposing ingame pokemon strictly level up moves as their setsAside from the starter
>>26318878
And that general philosophy was retarded and terrible. Stop making excuses.
>>26318866
But that's not a retarded moveset, Rhydons BST is crazy high for gen1, if you gave him STAB or the possibility of being SU back in the day when that was so uncommon he would have been absolutely bullshit powerful. This was just the way the game was back then.
>>26318888
>Strawmanning
You truly are retarded, are you over 18 yet? I never said the games were perfect, just that the move distribution was different and the strategies were different. Not better, not worse, different. But you're just too much of a blind hater to see it.
>>26318907
>Actually, actively, unironically defending LEER AT LEVEL 55
>>26318888
Not minding a different kind of learnset is different from thinking the games were perfect.
>>26318906
Opinions. You can show one moveset and look at it with modern eyes and think of it as bad, as it would be bad today, but put the set into a game where that was intended and common and it's not terrible.
>>26318924
>It's not BAD! It's just DIFFERENT!
>Y-you're just a BLIND HATER!
Every time.
Genwunners truly are the worst
>>26318936
>It's not bad because it was intentional
Did I not just say to stop making excuses?
>>26318925
I'm sorry I just don't see the problem here. Think of your favorite Pokemon, whatever that one is. Now add on Leer to its moveset at level 55. Wow look at that, nothing has changed about that pokemon.
>>26318962
Wow, look at that, it learns a useless garbage move you see on first-route Pokemon at level 5 more than halfway through its lifespan.
"Nothing has changed" my ass.
>>26318959
>guys stop using facts and being rational and just be triggered that I called you genwunners, I can't shitpost if you aren't autistic!
>>26318962
Give it fucking Rock Slide or at least Rock Throw at level 55. Not FUCKING LEER.
>>26318982
>excuses are facts
>excuses make the game okay
In that case Gen 6 must be the best gen ever
>>26318977
Yeah actually nothing has changed. Unless you don't know how to decline learning a move? Or maybe you think you're some kind of righteous rebel on the principal of it?
>>26318993
That would have been much much worse, Rhydon would have been a massive threat and nearly necessary on any team.
>>26317372
Crystal Version dex entry for Mew says it "can learn any move."
>>26319010
It can already learnn Rock Slide via TM, what difference does it make if it learns it via level up as well?
>>26319010
Worse than just NOT GIVING IT A MOVE AT ALL at that level?
Much less a literal INSULT of a move.
>>26318133
Im mostly just tired of all the pokemon I want to use have nothing but normal type attacks. It makes fighting rocks and ghosts and anything with high defense a massive pain in the ass
>>26319004
The fact I'm talking about are things like "Rhydon has high BST" or "Hyperbeam was stronger when it didn't have to recharge", the bearing rational things I'm talking about are talking about the trends and the meta of the pokemon at the time, and why the movesets fit in back then but not now.
>>26318942
>T-They're not getting mad at me by calling them le boogieman genwunners
>I'll keep beating the strawman and wailing like a baby throwing a tantrum
>That will show them
>>26319029
Oh okay, so you're the "righteous rebel of pricipal" type, who thinks a bad move is an insult. Thank you for making it clear that you don't need to be paid attention to.
>>26319043
this
as retarded as you might think it is, leer for a rhydon was a legit tactic.
>>26319043
>But muh meta!
If you were even old enough to consider a meta in Gen 1, you could just ban it if it's so overpowered. Don't act like that's an excuse.
>>26319010
>That would have been much much worse, Rhydon would have been a massive threat and nearly necessary on any team.
What, is this in-game or competitive were talking about? How would giving Rhyhorn a rock move within Gen 1 setting be much worse than nothing? Not like the NPC are any smart.
>>26318907
>Rhydon learning any rock moves is too OP
>Alakazam gets Psychic at level 38? NO PROBLEM
>>26319090
There's a different between a competitive meta, and the concept of meta. As in internal specified trends. "Meta" is sometimes modernly used to refer to the most effecient strategies, but that's not its original or only usage.
>>26319076
What about Tail Whip, which does the same exact thing and is learned 20 levels earlier?
>>26319110
Psychic types were ridiculously OP in gen I.
>>26319112
So why do you act like giving Rhydon a Rock type move at 55 is something horrible and satanic if you're not talking about competitive?
The gen 1 movesets were almost all like that. Pokemon seemed to learn mostly natural moves/things they could do naturally, almost as if they were animals, and then the other cool moves were supposed to be taught by TM (which were one-use only)... the whole thing with Pokemon learning moves like Thunderbolt and other good moves by level up is pretty recent. As a human, you can run, kick, punch, tackle, and grip naturally... you'd have to be taught tactics, karate, wrestling, etc. It used to just be the natural thing. It's bad by fun standards of course.
Also, BST comes into play here - Machamp and Rhydon had the highest attack stat at 130 save for Dragonite with 134. So of course Rhydon isn't going to learn Rock Slide, Earthquake, Body Slam, and Double Edge naturally.
>>26319110
Well look at how bullshit powerful Alakazam is? Don't out words into my mouth, I don't say gen1 was good or balanced, I'm not le boogeyman genwunner, but the precense of one OP mon doesn't justify making another one. Alakazam was bullshit in gen1, and I don't want another like that in Rhydon.
>>26317016
He's overdesigned as is, what would he look like
>>26319136
>powerful Pokemon aren't allowed to learn powerful moves
>bodybuilders have to learn pattycake because teaching them how to spin kick is "overpowered"
>>26319135
I said it would be worse, people don't strawman me and imply "horrible and satanic" are things that I would say.
>>26319122
what move relearner are you going to use to get back tail whip?
>>26319161
What.
Makes.
It.
Bad?
>>26319155
Well, no - the Machop line was defined by the fact that all they did was naturally learn karate and work out. So? They naturally could use moves like karate chop, low kick, and eventually, submission. They could learn earthquake and rock slide, but they aren't part of what the line does naturally.
Keep in mind, there were not very many distinct moves back in the day, either. Some moves were signature moves - Waterfall for Seaking comes to mind, Dizzy Punch for Kangaskhan, etc.
>>26319155
How can you be so retarded? Teach a bodybuilder MMA and then put him against a computer programmer or something, and tell me that that's a fair fight.
Now instead, imagine giving the programmer a bat, and the body builder is entirely untrained. It's much closer to balance now, and that was the general strategy back then.
>>26319146
pockets, leather, an oversized sword he'll never use, maybe some zippers
>>26319192
Basically this. In later games they realized it was more fun to have a more diverse moveset and the design meta changed, which is why the kiddies in ITT can't imagine it being different.
To be clear, making these mons today would be bad, going back to this style of design would be bad, but in a vacuum it works fine.
>ITT: People who defend stupid shit and don't know what they are talking about
Look, I like 1st gen for its unique mechanics but stop defending stupid shit like Rhyhorn's learnset. I had to feed this asshole 2 one-use TMs to make it viable in-game.
It's fine if your focus is to beat the game with 6 Pokemon but it's a complete bullshit if your aim is to catch everything.
Just take a look at fire types. Their learnsets are complete shit most of the time and you can't get Fire Blast early in the game.
Also, being stuck with weak STAB attacks like Ember mid game is miserable.
>>26319166
The one where it's impossible for Rhydon to NOT have the chance to learn Tail Whip unless you trade a level 64+ Golduck for one in Yellow?
>>26319192
Honestly, this. Back then, these things were mostly based off animals... and they also were supposed to be animal-like, even the ones not directly based on animals. It was always "Here's this animal... what can it do?" and then part of the challenge of the game was picking and choosing which of your guys to teach the special moves, keeping in mind that you could only do it once and there weren't very many different moves around.
>>26319192
>crippling a bodybuilder and giving a computer programmer a weapon that should never be anywhere near an MMA fight makes it fair
Are you a liberal? This is a serious question.
You are insisting that anyone would WANT to bring a computer programmer to an MMA fight in the first place.
No, that's why the bodybuilder's there.
>>26319227
This.
Being stuck with normal moves for the majority of the game is ASS.
>>26319227
This is why I didn't even LOOK at fire types until Numel came along in Gen 3.
>>26319235
>here's this mouse...it can shoot lightning from its cheeks
This is not an argument. Move on.
>>26319242
So what's the perfect world for you? Just some Pokemon that all have 600+ BST and amazing moveset, and some Pokemon that are basically Sunkern, so you can go around smashing them all?
>>26319260
Electric mice are a trope in Japan, as are fire foxes. It's similar to fire and salamanders in western culture. The point is they didn't pull that idea out of their asses randomly.
>>26319271
Weaker Pokemon evolve and get stronger and you stop using the weaker Pokemon because they are obviously unfit for battling the stronger Pokemon you are going to be faced with.
You keep insisting that you're not talking about competitive but you keep talking like a competitive player, insisting that these things aren't allowed to be OP because it disrupts your strategy or something.
>>26319271
Literally give these pokemon one non-normal STAB move and its fine. Doesn't have even have to be extremely powerful, but it goes a long way.
At making the game fun, that is. Rhydon is balanced in game because its hard to get. A Pokemon like Dragonite doesn't need to be nerfed with a shit moveset because getting it is the challenge.
ITT, angry children get angry about a specific thing about first gen games, and anyone who disagrees is asked to defend everything about the games at once instead of being able to just talk about the one thing.
>>26319297
But it's not "based off animals". You said "animal-like". A random ghost story doesn't make Rat Thor normal and like an actual rat.
>>26319315
>everything about the games at once
Everything wrong with Gen 1 was only posted once in this thread and never touched upon again, senpai. Strawmen get you nowhere.
>>26319331
I wasn't even the first person you responded to, just pointing out a fact. And yes "based off of" doesn't mean "exact copy of", because that would be Rattata. Nice hyperbole with "Rat Thor" though, it's good to know that I'm not wasting my time with someone who is just angry, and I'm actually talking to a person.
Reminder that Onix has an attack stat equal to Wurmple.
>>26319360
It's not a strawman. Angry children bring up one thing they don't like, someone responds with a reason for it, another angry child responds with "yeah but [something completely different] is in too so what about that???" And this goes over and over ITT.
>>26319365
Yes, and he gets a STAB move to be SU with as well. Also Bind is a really damn good move that makes any moveset good on a fast mon, which Onix is.
>>26319381
>something completely different
Another strawman.
Tell me, where are the specific posts you are referring to?
>>26317055
>STAB less common
>supposed to be a finisher
. . .
>>26319401
>Rhydon would be way too strong with a Rock move
>YA BUT WUT ABOUT ALAKAZAM THO???
>>26316731
>Volcano Pokemon
>NO EARTH POWER
>>26319413
how is that not a legit argument? Clearly GF was not concerned with making shit balanced
>>26318640
Only Alakazam was a threat and he was the most powerful Pokemon this side of Mewtwo in RB anyway and conveniently needed nothing besides Psychic anyway. Honorary mention for his starter
His actual Pokemon are good but their movesets are so shit it doesn't actually matter. His team was just kind of overleveled to make up for it.
>>26319426
Please follow the conversation. The point is that people in defense of Rhydons moveset are then also asked to justify Alakazam, which is completely different.
>>26319413
>Rhydon shouldn't learn a powerful STAB move at Level 55, it'd be too powerful!
>Alakazam learns its most powerful STAB move at Level 38.
>REEE STOP USING FACTS!
Also, that was, once again, only one post. Try again.
>>26319440
How is it completely different? Explain.
Without using any strawmen this time.
>>26319260
A mouse can't shoot electricity from its cheeks, but an electric mouse can shoot electricity from its cheeks.
Creature at hand: we have a mouse with electricity in its cheeks. What things could it do? Well, it could wag its tail, and maybe it could run quickly because mice are fast... of course it could shock you in varying levels... sometimes they run so fast it seems like there's more of them...
And that explains double team, quick attack, thunder wave, thunder shock, thunder...
Think a little. Don't be stupid.
>>26319479
>Here we have a super-strong Pokemon with huge supernatural muscles. But it can't be allowed to throw boulders! That's not realistic!
>>26319525
Well actually, Machamp can be taught rock slide. It's just, it isn't a move it learns naturally. I dunno why you're pretending to be retarded before attempting to interpret my arguments instead of trying to interpret them as intelligently as possible but that's more than likely due to the community on this website being pretty dumb overall.
>>26319455
Because I'm not defending Alakazam, he was bullshit powerful and one of the big parts wrong with that game. I'm not a boogeyman genwunners. Don't assume that I am just because I can look at a game and not be angry about it. I'm not going to defend the things that are wrong with the game just so the things that aren't wrong with it can be defended.
>>26319546
So basically it's only natural when you say it is. Got it.
Can we agree that the vast majority of gen 1 learnsets are complete ass outside of a handful of outliers?
>>26319227
Replaying Red right now with Charmander. It really does suck being confined to such weak stab and normal as your non TM filler mid game. And you can't use TMs because they're one shot so you have to wait until you can cheat and dupe them which is a whole other issue, and all the Special moves are one shots. I got Thunderbolt and I'd love to put it on Clefable so I can have more types but I can't until I can dupe it. Dog would have been amazing going through Rock Tunnel with all the hikers but I can't use it. I will admit Rock Tunnel was definitely on the difficult side if you came unprepared though as I was or simply not paying attention as I did have a number of healing items from pixking them up but I'm so used to not needing them I just pushed on through and I could have used them.
>>26319559
>criticizing a game is being angry about it
Here we go again.
Explain, then, in detail, why Rhydon not learning a STAB move at 55 and instead learning Leer, seen on first-route Pokemon that are Level 5 and under, is a good thing.
>>26319559
>Limit each Pokemon's natural learnset to increase reliance on TMs
>Make TMs one use only
>Elemental resistances and weakenesses is a major part of the game
>Most Pokemon will only have normal type moves for the majority of the game
How is this not a flaw in design? I'm not saying Gen 1 is inherently shitty because of this, I'm just saying it would have been better, and more fun, if each pokemon had a STAB and you actually had to plan what pokemon to use in each situation rather than slap a bunch of TMs on each mon so they can sweep everything?
>>26319604
No I'm done with this. Clearly nobody is going to change their mind here and I'm not going to waste time repeating myself.
>>26319642
>I can't argue this so I'm going to leave!
Go ahead then, you're only proving me right. Gen I movesets were, are, and always will be garbage and there are no excuses.
RBY were the first and they pulling everything out of their ass
They had nothing tonoff of. What we got was a great concept and core set of mechanics. That doesn't make the games good nor does it excuse them for their flaws. What they contributed can be appreciated but it doesn't make them less not good than later iterations inherently. They have an excuse, but it doesn't excuse it, you get the meaning.
But remember, Rhyhorn learning ANY rock moves naturally is too much.
>>26316679
Does anyone else here miss this?
I'm tired of so many Pokemon having perfect coverage forever and the insane movepool bloat. It homogenizes Pokemon of the same type.
>>26319678
Surprised it learns Dig and Earthquake through level up tbqh.
>>26319695
That's Diglett's moveset.
>>26319678
I'm just surprised at this point that this guy has nothing better to do than be wrong online. It's Friday night, man. At 1 AM. Do something with your life.
>>26319686
I can't say I miss these days.
>>26319686
The Pokemon still have samey level up movepools and learn sets, only the pool goes up to your ankles and 1, MAYBE 2 relevant moves if the Pokemon was lucky came from level up during a gen where the only options were level up and one shot "irreplaceable" TMs. The movesets of water Pokemon looked the same, Rock/Ground the same, etc. Check out Smogon's RBY sets.
>>26319717
>Magmar
>Fire Blast/Fire Punch/Flamethrower/Smokescreen
>>26319704
Diglett was the shit in RBY in game because it got everything by level up
>>26319686
I agree that pokemon today have too much coverage. But I do think it was a bit ridiculous in gen 1, though. There could be a happy medium, though. Each Pokemon I think should have 1-2 STABs and maybe 1 or 2 coverage moves of different types. I think that would be best.
Looking at Gen 1 movesets, its not hard to see where the idea for "normal" type came from- just basic attacks. I don't think this was necessarily a bad idea- its just there are too many of them and too few of moves that aren't them.
This is exactly my problem with modern pokemon and why I quit competitive playing- there are just too many variables. I only really played Little Cup, and the best mon there was Mienfoo- it had Drain Punch, Swords Dance, Knock Off, Baton Pass, Acrobatics, Rock Slide, U-turn- lots of different shit. It became basically impossible to try and cover all of it when building a team. Like, if you brought Croagunk to counter it, you'd be fucked if it appeared with Acrobatics. But if you brought Misdreavous to counter it, you'd be fucked if it was carrying Knock Off. Too many variables. And its not like Chess, where you can see every possible option your opponent has, but instead it leaves everything up to guessing and luck.
I wish there was a competitive meta that used one set for each mon, like the rental pokemon from Stadium. I think that would promote actually strategy.
I admit RBY is more another opposite extreme. Although I like that extreme more than the current one.
It would be cool if having access to certain coverage moves was more of a bonus than an assumption. It's a way to have Pokemon with less BST be more viable, if they get unique options more powerful Pokemon might not.
>>26319785
>I wish there was a competitive meta that used one set for each mon, like the rental pokemon from Stadium. I think that would promote actually strategy.
In some ways I love this idea and in some ways I hate this idea. So it totally should exist.
>>26317332
When a Life Orb is held by a pokemon with Sheer Force, and the move it uses triggers Sheer Force, Life Orb's self damage effect is removed.
>>26316870
This fucked me up so bad when playing through the VC version of blue
>I know, I'll raise a Machamp since I never have before!
>spend an hour searching rock tunnel for machop
>barely catch it
>start to grind it up in Rock Tunnel, since it knows karate chop and there are mostly geodudes
>NOT VERY EFFECTIVE
gave up on that idea quick
>>26316870
>Dragon Ascent is a flying move
>>26319678
But that's not Rhydon and Diglett doesn't have 130Atk.
>>26318057
they can see your team but you can order it however you like. I've baited people with Zoroark tons of times. Just have to play it right.
>>26318509
>even
Jynx was very threatening back then. Starmie has always been stellar. Hypno actually has a kinda-sorta signature strategy that offered reliable status and healing.
The only people who think it was just Alakazam and Mewtwo didn't meta back then, or haven't read up on it besides the soundbytes they hear regurgitated from the bowels of the internet.
>>26319957
>Starmie
>stellar
You son of a bitch.
>>26319785
>Rayquaza's set includes Dragon Ascent
>>26316754
>Slash at 17 and Fury Swipes at 47
did they understand anything
>>26321403
It can be argued that they still dont understand anything
>>26319036
Rock has plenty of weaknesses and Ghost is just the Gastly line. Use Ground or Psychic moves.
>>26317278
Do you know what jokes are?
>>26316731
>>Solrock can't lean Morning Sun
>>Lunatone can't learn Moonlight
Well meme'd. Here's your reply.
>>26318793
(^:
>ITT underage kids parrot criticisms of gen 1 theyve seen on other gen 1 hate threads and poketuber reviews
I bet they think Platinum was the greatest game ignoring context
>>26318846
>Slandslash
>Ferrow
>Gen I Cloyster
>Possibility of an Eeveelution that's not Joltion
Lel, it's even worse
>>26316747
This one is ok actualy.
>>26319785
I always wanted to see meta where Strong pokemon get weak attacks and weak strong. Just like rentals.
>>26324522
Also I would make multihit moves were stronger because now they are too weak, while they always pictured as stronger moves.
>>26316973
Oh I dont know... Maybe a rock type move you prick?
>>26317016
Do you even play the game Nidoking is fine, it's even decent in OU
>>26323859
Blue didn't use Fearow in his Champion match (And Fearow is arguably better than Pidgeot).
Flareon was very legit back then, but GF put Smog instead of Dig/Body Slam on it.
Cloyster was good, it had the same BST than fucking Gyarados (480), it was a tough Pokémon.
The fault and disgrace in Blue's teams aren't the Pokémon themselves, the problem is in the movesets.
>>26318731
>Horn drill doesn't effect a target who's Speed is above the user's
Rhydon only has fucking Base 40 speed. There's only 24 pokemon slower than it, and 20 of them are fucking pre-evos. Unless you're seriously SERIOUSLY underlevelled, or INTENTIONALLY handicapping yourself, it's not going to hit a damn thing.
>>26318731
Fury Attack from Rhydon with 5 hits doesn't even come close to taking half of a Charizard's health when said Zard is 11 levels below it. Blue's Rhydon is a joke and the only way he's ever a challenge is if he outspeeds you with Horn Drill. Any surfer can oneshot him with ease despite being several levels below him too.
>>26318640
Arcanine is a joke.
Pidgeot is a joke.
Exeggutor is a joke. Not even the broken sleep mechanic was gonna do jack to help him, especially if you used anything weak to psychic, since the game was so stupid he'd spam Hypnosis only because it's super-effective.
Rhydon was a joke as well if you used anything that wasn't an absolute slug and carried a grass/water attack.
Blue was never ever hard. The only mon on his team that was actually a big threat was Alakazam, purely for the insane criticals it could pull due to speed.
Lorelei was by far the toughest member of the final gauntlet.
Bruno was a chump, Agatha was easy, and Lance died horribly to boltbeamers.
Why does this guy learn scratch?
>>26319010
>That would have been much much worse, Rhydon would have been a massive threat and nearly necessary on any team.
Rhydon is only just barely better than Golem in competetive, and for in-game purposes he's just plain worse(arguably wosre than Graveler), cause Golem picks up not only Rock Throw while still a Geodude, but also STAB Earthquake at 36.
How would Rhydon getting that be a problem? He learns both EQ and RS by TM anyways, so all it does is limit a precious resource by having stupid level up moves.
>>26319140
Rhydon already had RS and EQ for player to player, but in-game, Golem(who was comparable stat-wise) got both Rock Throw and EQ naturally.
>>26319365
Onix was actually somewhat alright as long he wasn't put against anything that had special moves.
Screech->Bind/Rock Throw
>>26319717
That was bad even for back then.
>>26325398
He's a mole, he has powerful claws, that's how he digs around.
>>26318898
I blame Game Freak for waiting until the sequels to make a good game.
