http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/smogon-usage-based-tier-update-may-2016.3571918/#post-6798672
TL:DR - OU dropped Conkeldurr and Sylveon, gained Quagsire, Amoongus and Zapdos. No other rises.
Celebi moved from OU to UU
Honchkrow moved from UU to RU
Gastrodon moved from RU to NU
Aggron moved from RU to NU
Conkeldurr moved from OU to UU
Alakazam-Mega moved from OU to UU
Altaria-Mega moved from OU to UU
Quagsire moved from NU to OU
Smeargle moved from RU to NU
Mawile moved from NU to PU
Sylveon moved from OU to UU
Amoonguss moved from RU to OU
Zapdos moved from UU to OU
>>26213770
>thinking we care about smogonfags when this just happened?!
>>26212843
Owl confirmed real.
>>26213770
>Conkeldurr moved from OU to UU
RIP in peace, bro. And RIP in peace by extension, bro Machamp
>>26213783
>Spamming other threads with "meme magic" bullshit
Kill yourself.
Smogon has nobody to blame but themselves for stall becoming the dominant playstyle. You wanted every play style to be equally viable, so now you get to sit through half hour matches where two players double switch until one of them mispredicts.
>>26213770
Why is quagsire ou?
>>26213841
Good typing
GREAT ability
Decent movepool
Fine bulk
>>26213848
Why was he nu at one point. I'm so confused
>>26213858
Basically, OU is retardedly oversaturated with heavy boosting sweepers right now.
Quagsire is one of the better ways to deal with that nonsense.
uu is gonna be a riot
how many times has celebi been moved now
>>26213858
Quagmire was EASILY the best Pokemon for its tier when looking at Ou. I mea n that as it was viable and good yet in NU. Reason it was low before was because there are other bulky options and the lower the tier the less useful it got. So it's either OU, or NU but good in OU but not as much in RU and UU
>>26213858
It's worth noting that as of Gen VI there are now too many OU viable Pokémon for all of them to realistically be in the OU tier. In other words, you will find a lot of OU viable stuff in lower tiers now. Also, Smogon's usage based tiering system does not handle Mega Pokémon very well, dropping a lot of them into tiers where they are overpowered and have their mega stones banned causing the base form to drop even lower. This is why Pinsir is NU (I think), even though it is very good in OU right now.
>>26213770
>sylveon and altariamega in uu
ugh...
>>26213993
Mega Altaria and Mega Alakazam were banned earlier in ORAS.
>>26213987
They changed it where Mega's are tiered apart from their regular forms. The only time it gets messy is when the regular is more used then the mega. Like in the case of latios, the mega is OU technically but almost non existent in the meta, because you can't have mega Latinos without the OU tier Latinos. pinsir mega is OU, but it's regular form is my that good so it's NU
>>26213952
There are other niche Pokémon that similarly are not tiered well by Smogon's algorithm.
Ditto is an obvious example, as it is exactly as strong as its opponents. It is too niche to use on a majority of teams, which is why it drops to low tiers, but it is still just as good or better in Ubers as it is in PU.
Shedinja is another example. It can be taken down by a garbage Pokémon just as easily as it can be by Mewtwo. But it actually does worse in lower tiers with lots of Rock types than it does in Ubers with lots of Dragons and Psychics.
Shuckle is another case. It sets up Rocks and Web reliably in pretty much any tier, but offers too little otherwise to use on most teams. However, if that is exactly what you need, Shuckle will perform well in OU for you.
>>26214030
Tan growth is another amazing RU in OU. There are even Niche Mons like Emboar, and Exterior that have a place on some teams, but aren't nearly as good as the others
>>26214022
That is good, I was not aware of that.
But it still means that megas will be tiered too low compared to other Pokémon because their frequency of use is restricted compared to normal Pokémon. It's not possible to run Mega Altaria and Mega Metagross on one team, but it is possible to pair Garchomp and Clefable, which will make those two look more viable in a usage-based tiering system.
>>26214063
Yeah but since you can only have 1 mega, you kinda have to compare how good a mega is to other megas, as they are competing for that slot. Mega altaria might be a better Pokemon than a lot of the OU Mons, but it's possible that the teammates that are good for it, aren't as good as mega sczisors for example.
>>26214100
My argument is not mainly about how good any given Mega Pokémon is or is not, it's about how the mathematics behind Mega use and Smogon tiering will make Mega Pokémon look less viable than they are.
Not exactly sure about your point, but I as far as I can tell it talks about something unrelated.
>>26214143
I think I see what you mean. You can't have a team of Mega's, only 1, so they will inherently have less usage than non mega Pokemon. I still don't really think it's an issue when tiering , the player should just be careful and compare Mega's to each other and not a mega to non mega when looking at usage stats
>>26213788
Dude abuse him. He's going to fuck shit up now
>>26213907
I'm UU fag, I'm getting horny thinking about these changes
I like how quagsire is always alternating between NU and OU, I never recall seeing quagsire in UU or RU, or even just seeing him being used in these tiers.
Also can't wait to use a machamp in RU before It get's banned because stell.
>ban Hoopa
>suddenly Stall is everywhere
Hoopa was the cancer OU needed
>>26213770
First, why Mega Altaria? I thought it was a really good Pokémon despite 110 on Atk, Def and SpA, 105 for SpD, and 80 Spe.
Second, I also thought Quagsire was a real shitmon, why the rise? If it's for Unaware OU already had Clefable.
>>26214413
Its really good, but its not that good in the current meta. Plus there's so many straight up broken megas that are finally seeing more usage lately (MegaCham)
>>26214413
>quagsire
>Shitmon
>Unaware
>scald
>only one weakness
>reliable recover
>great utility
Yeah nah
>>26213770
>http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/smogon-usage-based-tier-update-may-2016.3571918/#post-6798672
So now if I want to use quagsire in UU I cant? Even though its a shitty mon without supprot like mega sab, amoonguss and other shit?
Seems like a flawed way to make tiers.
>>26214413
I wrote about why Megas drop fast in this thread, basically since you can only have one on your team their usage is inherently lower which causes them to drop. Mega Altaria is probably more viable than, for example, Togekiss, but you just can't run it on your team with your Mega Scizor. A lot of good OU Megas are not actually OU by tier because of this.
>>26214450
Smogon tiering is flawed, but that is not a reason why. Anyway, unless you can provide a better tiering algorithm, I guess we're stuck with usage. Still better than VGC.
>>26213993
They'll be banned from UU faster than you can say their names. Don't worry.
>>26214470
Well why not base it on power? Since they ban owerpowered things anyway, which arent necessarily overused. Of course, the definition of "powerful" or "weak" is kind of subjective, but so are the suspect tests.
>>26214504
>Well why not base it on power?
Well..
>Of course, the definition of "powerful" or "weak" is kind of subjective
There you are, then.
>>26214504
Things get better or worse depending on how the meta has adjusted to whatever the current trends are. See: Mega Altaria.
>>26214459
It'll probably live in BL he'll soon.....
Rip Gallade Heracross Pidgeot Gyrados
>>26214450
Not really. I've used amoonguss on some bulky offensive teams that were really weak to keldeo
>>26214536
BL hell* I'm on mobile on the train sorry
>>26214379
It was in UU at one point after it dropped out of OU
>>26214527
I said bans are subjective as well.
>>26214536
Well, he's in good company at least. Apart from Pidgeot they are all still OU viable, I'd say.
Seriously, in the past running more than maybe one sub-OU mon in OU at once was not very smart, but now your team can be like half sub-OU because there are so many viable Pokémon in general. Maybe they should consider moving the cutoff to a lower percentage to reflect this.
>>26214563
Most tiering is not bans, anon.
Smogon has a usage based algorithm for general tiering and only uses more or less democratic judgent for bans. You have no algorithm for general tiering so far, and also offered no good metric by which to judge if a Pokémon is strong or not.
>>26214564
>Apart from Pidgeot they are all still OU viable, I'd say.
Not really. Pidgeots not that bad in OU, 100% Hurricanes are really nice. Also Zygarde is straight up bad and Staraptor is outclassed in OU.
![[MonoSubs] Yu-Gi-Oh ARC-V - 028 [720p].mkv_snapshot_12.12_[2015.04.05_21.09.31].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/WFjQHES.jpg "[MonoSubs] Yu-Gi-Oh ARC-V - 028 [720p].mkv_snapshot_12.12_[2015.04.05_21.09.31].jpg")
>Now I can play Sylveon and Conkeldurr on a less retard tier
Finally. Fuck OU.
>>26214584
>zygarde is bad
The moment he gets thousand waves/arrows (whatever is the move that hit flying shit) he's fucking god-tier good.
Honestly he's useable even now. actually won some shitty tourney with him.
but holy shit all those stall-fagging shit. I miss Hoopa.
Still going to prefer Sylveon instead of the Clefable as cleric. at least he can hit actually hard enough.
>>26214584
I was only talking about the Megas mentioned. Pidgeot just does not seem to offer enough in OU to be interesting, in my opinion. It's just a special attacker with good STAB, and you get plenty of those.
>>26214006
>>26214484
>banned from UU
>outclassed in OU
For what fucking purpose?
>>26214638
Ask a huge chunk of Ubermons like Mega-Mawile or Greninja.
>>26214552
Only because you can only drop 1 tier at a time. It was RU aswell
>>26213770
>Aggron moved from RU to NU
>mfw banded Head Smash
>>26213770
The wasn't a thread on April, which were the tier changes besides Alakazam and Zapdos drops?
I'm starting a draft on friday, what OU mon should I try to build around with lower tier mons?
>>26214764
It might be smarter to build around sub-OU Pokémon with the few good versatile OU Pokémon you can grab. If you can get Scizor, Garchomp or Lando, they all have multiple roles they can fill. Lower tier Pokémon are usually more one dimensional by comparison.
I have been hearing a lot of complaints about stall recently. I remember people saying that stall is dead since X/Y came out, all the way through ORAS release.
Is stall suddenly good again and what changed to make it so?
>>26214807
This is my third season, it's from my school. Thing is its a free for all type draft, so it's not like I'm guaranteed 3 out or something. Last draft I built around clef able and mega pinsir and finished second with those two being my only ou. The problem with the three Pokemon you named is they are all 4X weak, in a draft that's really easy to exploit with hidden power.
I was thinking maybe mega Zara X? The reason I want to build around a ou is because there are so many people that it will be hard to get out that synergies, but using your stray what are some other ou'S that are useful in multiple ways.
>>26214824
Hoops got banned, but it's funny because you would think the meta would go back to pee hoopa
Anyway my secret counter to stall is emboar with grass knot. Can't be burned and 2hkos all stall Mons, and has that nice double coverage to hit hearten.
>>26214824
Fucking Cancer Sableye
>>26213770
>Quagsire moved from NU to OU
>from NU to OU
what the fuck?
>>26214850
>>26214865
I get that OU lost a strong wall breaker in Hoopa, but there have been lots of strong wall breakers around since XY, which is why stall was supposedly dead a few years ago. And since then, we have only been getting more good wall breakers and stall breakers in ORAS, with a few megas, Serperior and Emboar as was already mentioned.
>>26214885
Its literally only good in OU
>>26214850
Actually just remembered, it strugles vs Almomola and Slowbro. I usually partner it with a magic guarder to take scalds though and switch in free into those.
>>26214638
they still have their uses in OU, it's just that nobody uses them as much as they used too
>>26213770
>amoongus
holy shit what? what caused it to move up so far? I thought it was mostly used in doubles as a supporter.
>>26215069
STALL > ALL
>>26215069
Stall is a lot better like others have mentioned, also its a pretty cool bulky Pokon with a great ability and an even better moveset.
How many times is zapdos going to switch between OU and UU?
>>26215144
It's going to drop back down by the end of summer, maybe even earlier if nobody comes up with the next hot copypaste balance team - the only ones it has any niche in.
>>26213770
>gained Quagsire, Amoongus
It's about time.
>>26215167
It's a balance Mon? Thought it was stall?
>>26215069
Even outside of stall, it forms a good Regenerator core with Slowbro that counters basically all Fighting types in the tier, which is valuable given how good Keldeo is. The core also gets Spore, Scald and Thunder Wave, taking care of all your status needs. Add a Heatran and you have a solid FWG core that can pivot all day.
>>26215190
holy shit, I see the metagame evolving before my very eyes. It's exciting, really exciting.
>>26215177
Stall doesn't like mons that are weak to Stealth Rock. Plus Zapdos actually has some offensive presence.
>>26214022
>Latinos
>>26214022
Mega Latinos?
>>26214612
Zygarde is p bad in OU
>>26214622
Sylveon is ass compared to clef. Guess you people will never see that. To each their own I guess.
>>26215208
Yeah it is so stupid that smogon provides a bold defensive set when it hardly has bulk. Plus speed positive nature with base speed of 100 is good enough for charizard y, with the proper team building a timid pivoting zapados has a few good uses(hazard removal same speed as jolly flygon, rain setter, or just a special attacker with decent move pool).
>>26215177
Zapdos is more of a balance mon, yes
>>26214612
Ain't nothing too terrible about a dd, eq, outrage, e-speed set. With ground stab that hits flying, yeah he'll get banned.
>>26215285
Bulky Coil is fine, too, it's just that he's mostly outclassed by good ol' Chompers.
But yeah, Ground STAB that hits Flying is crazy good.
>>26215270
That wasn't his point. The point was that balance prefers something with a bit more offensive presence in zapdos, as opposed to something like skarm. You 100% need physdef on zapdos, that's it's niche in OU. A physically defensive set on zapdos is preferred for the likes of stuff like bisharp, scizor, lopunny(and fighting types in general), landorus, excadrill, metagross, etc.
This is why I don't play OU anymore. Obviously, you ban everything that hurts stall even when it's not overpowered in the slightest like Hoopa U, and then don't ban anything stall related even when it's extremely overpowered like Mega Sableye who dominates even in Ubers, then obviously stall is going to become more dominant than at already was.
>>26214824
Stall was never dead don't listen to idiots/stall players. Stall is and has been for a long while the playstyle of the top player in OU.
>>26215312
Good. If you didn't see what the problem with Hoopa U was, even if you didn't agree with the ban, then maybe you shouldn't be playing OU to begin with.
>>26215270
Thundurus does the whole offensive electric thing much better than Zapdos and if you want a fast, offensive Defogger then you're better off with the Latis. Going defensive is the only way Zapdos has a niche in OU.
They should unban Blaziken tbqh
>>26215270
Oh and add Talonflame to my list
>>26215324
There was no problem with Hoopa U. It just made stall players upset they couldn't dominate as easily.
>>26215270
The bulk is good, the typing even better
>>26215370
So you're another one of these people that think it's about "liking stall or not liking stall" or "liking offense or "not liking offense". I don't like stall nor I have ever used stall a day in my life, but from my experience of using it against stall/balance, I could see what kind of problem it was for the tier(shutting down two whole playstyles). It's about what's best for the tier, not some "I like this or like that" contest. That's what you people don't seem to get.
hey wait, if smogon loves protecting stall so much why isn't scizor or burd banned? with their movesets and access to swords dance what walls don't either of them really break?
>>26215443
No it didn't shut down either of them, and even when it was around, stall was still the team used by the highest winning percentage player in OU. Stall players just didn't like it because then it wasn't as easy/nigh impossible for opponents to beat them, like it is now.
>>26215453
Is this really how scrubs think? Scizor is Will-o-Wisp bait, Talon dies to rocks, they both hate Rocky Helmet, and neither of them beat Quaqsire. Neither of them come close to being the best wallbreakers in OU.
>>26215521
well that's why i'm asking dipshit because i didn't know.
>>26215527
You should kill yourself for asking such a stupid question.
>>26215494
Kek. Ok
>>26215573
Enjoy your 2 hour matches every game retard.
>>26213770
>smogon
Who cares.
Also Mega Altaria fags BTFO, they knew it was an overhyped mega, get rekt by facts.
>>26215606
You clearly care, on top of a good number of comments already indicating people care.
>>26213770
>Altaria-Mega moved from OU to UU
>Celebi moved from OU to UU
Damn nigga. And all these stall shitters moving up thanks to no Hoops.
>>26213770
Didn't Zapdos just drop from OU not too long ago?
>>26214824
It is all bullshit said by stall players. Stall is stronger than ever. Someone got to #1 overall in every tier with a stall team at the same time. Mega Sableye pretty much makes OU stall viable on its own.
>>26214022
>>26215682
The bottom OU mons shuffle in and out a lot.
>>26214030
Also Smeargle
>>26214504
because that's retarded
>>26214584
>Pidgeot isn't bad
Not Bad =/= Good
100% accurate hurricanes are simply not worth it when you can just use Tornadus-T, who, aside from being able to miss with hurricane and not being immune to ghost, is going to be your better option
>>26216195
They should ban T-T to ubers so Pidgeot could reign
>>26214413
It's still great. We're reaching a point where ~A rank threats are dropping from OU due to power creep.
>>26216210
how is there still powercreep? The only thing that got added was Volcanion, which altaria beast if it doesn't have sludge wave
>>26215563
I'm not very good, so of course i'd ask man.
How the fuck are you supposed to stop stalling?
>Elo scrubs whining about Stall
>>26216277
>implying you or anyone can beat stall
>>26216263
Ban the overpowered stallmons. Most notably, Mega Sableye. But for some reason the player base is too stupid to realize when a stallmon is overpowered, and can only recognize when an offensive mon is doing a bunch of damage.
>>26213770
>quagsire moved to OU
Just because it has a niche in OU and is usable DOESN'T mean it should be OU.
All the lower tiers didn't suffer with Quagsire, they had counters to it.
>>26216209
To bad rain is not permanent anymore. So a ban like that would be unjustified.Also even with perma rain giving T-T the boot, Noivern would be much more splashable Hurricane user
>>26216325
It was moved to OU because it had enough usage, as simple as that.
>>26215606
>I-It's a meme Mega!
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-369221156
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-369387164
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-369871197
All in the past three or four days. By all means, keep under-preparing for it like these morons. It's making my laddering experience all the more hilarious.
>>26216284
Magic Bounce on stallmons truly gives me the worst case of cancers.
>>26213770
Will Ambipom ever drop down to NU?
>>26216284
Mega Sableye already got suspect tested and wasn't banned.
>>26216277
>#1 guy is stall
>literally everyone else is an elo scrub
>>26216263
hazards and spinblockers, too bad you're also gonna ruins everyone else's day
>>26216402
>getting and keeping hazards up against Sableye stall
>>26216369
>Technician STAB Fake-Out from passable attack
>Ever dropping
>>26216325
It received OU usage, therefore it is OU. Plain and simple.
>>26216339
>using mold breaker drill without LO
for what purpose
>>26216282
Yeah, it's called stallbreakers. Don't know if you've ever heard of them. There's quite a few of them actually. I don't complain about facing stall since I prepare for it. If you aren't prepared for stall, then don't play. Plain and simple.
>>26216466
Scarf driller is good
>>26216473
he gave it an air balloon
>>26215580
No, I don't like stall, but is that gonna be a reason for me to keep Hoopa U? No. I know how to judge the meta based on something outside of my own bias. You should try it sometime.
>>26216427
>STILL no Mold Breaker Fire-type that gets Stealth Rock and Spikes
>Mega Sableye STILL isn't banned.
>>26215309
You're telling me that zapdos goes from viable with 94 def and 100 speed to unviable with 85 def and 110 speed? Sounds ridiculous to me. You're all or nothing, 100% viability determinism, appears untested. How do you qualify that?
>>26215580
Laddering with stall is actually pretty quick once you get away from elo hell shitters who will stick around for a whole game.
> 1 | Landorus-Therian | 31.312%
>>26216512
Why fire?
>>26216613
immune to Sableye's WoW
>>26216603
My feel when of the 110 or so battle ready pokemon i have lando-t isn't even one of them.
>>26216603
It is actually ok now that everyone is running defensive Lando. It, Hippowdon, and Garchomp have just kind of molded into one obligatory bulky ground type that every team has to have now and you can basically prepare for them all the same way. It is only when people start spamming the scarf set that it gets obnoxious, at least for me.
>>26213788
you can still use him you sperg
>>26216329
Bull shit it would. Less speed, less s atk, 4x ice weakness. Gg no re.
>>26216228
Actually you can have Rocks up and Volcanion switches in on a Dragon Dance, and use EQ and it still only has like a 50-60% chance to OHKO. So if you don't kill it there you're risking getting burned with Steam Eruption of Sludge Waved.
What I really meant in terms of power creep, and what a few anons already mentioned, primarily has to do with Megas. Opportunity cost affects usage so a lot of great Megas in OU are dropping. When there are 20+ OU viable Megas some of the really good ones are getting dropped to UU/BL.
>>26216716
Pardon, pidgeot has less speed by 2 bst points, however it's damage out put with no guard hurricane is far more damaging than maybe a noivern huricane hitting.
>>26213770
>Amoonguss moved from RU to OU
Moving up the world
>>26216466
>>26216473
My Excadrill isn't even Scarf or LO it's Air Ballon with a spread of 200 Att/ 104 SpD/204 Spd Adamant. Outspeeds Jolly base 70's and lower, and guaranteed survives shit like Hydro Pumps from Rotom-W and Lava Plumes from defensive Heatrans. Basically it's good against balance. Also survives Flamethrower from Mega Manectric and makes for good Lati switchin. I use it to beat balanced mons, remove Rocks, and Spinning.
>inb4 that replay shows Rotom-W OHKOing with Hydro Pump!
It was at 96 SpD then and the opponent got a max roll for the 6% chance to OHKO. I've since changed it to survive its Pumps now.
You should really try out non-standard EV spreads.
>>26216765
People finally realized how godly regen is. It, Tangrowth, and Alomomomola are about to become OU staples.
| 51 | Charizard-Mega-Y | 3.38527% | 167534 | 5.742% | 128904 | 5.893% |
>yfw MegaZard-Y drops to UU next tier shift
>>26216575
Not him but what are you talking about?
Zapdos has 85 Def. If you're comparing stats to find what makes a Pokemon viable in that regard, it's the typing of Electric/Flying with reliable recovery in Roost. It shares this with Emolga, who's too frail even for resisted hits.
Ignore the other Pokemon those guys mentioned that it walls. The main reason, everyone should know, is Mega Pinsir. Zapdos is Mega Pinsir's best counter.
The only Pokemon that resist Flying and Fighting are: Aegislash, Dedenne, Doublade, Emolga, Honedge, Rotom, Thundurus, Zapdos
Aegislash is what kept Mega Pinsir out before. Everything else is too frail bar Doublade and Zapdos, but at least Zapdos has reliable recovery and can threaten to OHKO Mega Pinsir.
>>26216785
As much as Amoonguss is good in OU (I use it myself), the main reason it moved up now is that ABR stall and stall in general got popularized around the time of Hoopa-U's suspect test and thereafter. To give you an idea of how prevalent ABR stall is, in the 1825 stats, ~48% of Weavile users used the Choice Band set, which is virtually the only place Band Weavile is seen.
>>26216813
This is exactly what I was talking about here: >>26216719
Zard Y is actually in danger of dropping. Everyone knew this would happen sooner or later.
>The year is 2018
>Sun/Moon Megas change the face of the metagame again
>M-Houndoom drops to PU
>Mega Zard X and Y to UU
>Mega Pinsir to RU
>Mega Alakazam to RU
This is getting disgusting.
>>26216820
Do you know how natures work? What's 10% of 85, now remember to round down to whole integers.
>>26216940
Are you forgetting about the stat boost provided by EVs?
>>26216813
>>26216848
The real reason it's that low is people are uncreative as shit. /vp/ perpetuates it too. People just copypaste teams and it's mostly the top players who develop their own unique teams/mons based on whatever they like, excluding memers like Showderp and Heatah Fajita.
When you see a Mega Charizard Y nowadays, it's usually accompanied by Tyranitar and Excadrill and then a bulky Water type like Slowbro to stop Mega Lop or Scarf Lando-T. You barely see something outside of this formula, which people toss aside as old/everyone knows how to approach it. It doesn't mean the mons aren't broken.
>>26216848
Zard Y is fortunate enough to beat Regenerator cores of any kind, but when was the last time you saw a team with Amoongus and Quagsire that didn't have Chansey? I think he may cling to OU for a while yet, not to mention he'd actually never drop to UU, just BL as Drought is b&.
>>26216848
It'll take a lot to drop Zard-X since it is the only DDer that can't get burned.
>>26216940
What the fuck? You don't call it 94, dumbass. There are EVs and IVs. If you want to use the final number, it doesn't make sense to since you're fine to shift it around with a tolerance of still answering what it needs to answer. Everyone just uses the raw base stat.
>>26216980
You have a better idea? I pair Zard Y with Weavile and Latios as of late. Weavile bops Dragons and Chansey, and Latios clears hazards for both of them.
>>26216710
i think what he meant is that machamp is going to be outclassed by conkeldurr
>>26216980
I only used Zard-Y at the height of Sheddy Stall because fuck wisp. Otherwise I just see M-Gardevoir as a better nuke mon.
>>26217026
and the fact that RU is gonna get fucking ruined by Machamp.
>>26213770
sad to see such good pokemon dropping and some other cancerous ones rising, all due to stall
fuck stall
>>26217009
Weavile is good with it. I see that too.
What I use is AV Escavalier as my trapper (since again, I like to try to be creative) paired with Y. Esca comes in on Mega Garde, LO Gengar, etc. It can take HP Fire from Latios and Lava Plume from SpDef Heatran, which is how I can get surprise kills with it and how it serves better than Scizor. Plus, Overcoat means it can come in on Breloom.
I have Wish Pass Sylveon to help heal it safely and Umbreon with Taunt and Heal Bell to finish off the backup, while stopping slower walls. Umbreon was also mainly there to stop Hoopa-U back when it ran physical sets, since it could take it on well, but now that it's gone I'll probably swap it out sometime.
>Quagsire moved from NU to OU
>Amoonguss moved from RU to OU
so someones gotta explain this one for me.
>>26217078
Stall. Is there anything else you need to know?
>>26217078
read.the.thread.
>>26217078
This team, I think
Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss
- Heal Bell
- Stealth Rock
- Soft-Boiled
Amoonguss @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 168 Def / 92 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Clear Smog
- Sludge Bomb
Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SpD
Impish Nature
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Fake Out
Weavile @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Pursuit
Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Counter
- Spikes
- Roost
- Defog
Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Scald
- Recover
- Earthquake
- Curse
It's the hot new stall team
>>26217078
scroll up, it's been explained
>>26217078
read the thread
>>26214612
This.
Zygarde's really fun to use in Doublesand even Triplesthanks to Land's Wrath and the fact that it's able to use Dragon Dance makes everything all the better for it.
>>26213770
>Sylveon moved from OU to UU
RIP Florges. You'll still be the queen of UU to me ;_;
>>26214824
>>26214824
Stallfags are whiners.
Also pretty much every Pokemon that slaps the shit outta stall is getting banned so it makes sense that stall becomes more used/popular by proxy.
>>26217093
wait, what's weavile doing on a stall team? for other stall teams?
>>26214646
Tier between OU and Ubers when?
>>26214459
That's the thing about OU in general. There are loads of Pokemon who are more than viable in OU, but end up lower tiers because they need a specific team composition to run effectively, so they're used less than things that can be shoved onto any team (Espeon being one of the most blatant examples).
>>26217143
ubers boarderline?
>>26217143
Partially. The main reason is it's there to punish stallbreakers like Hoopa-U, Togekiss, Gengar, and Lando-T.
>>26217003
Natures make those the raw bst. The only thing i excluded was the deficient, altered stat.
>>26216813
It'll more than likely be quickbanned anyway
>>26217143
That and Pursuit trapping, pretty much. It's the same reason why people use Scarf Tyranitar on stall teams.
>>26217143
Beats hyper offense and traps stuff.
>tfw Pokeaim never runs stall, but easily went undefeated with that team in a recent video
>>26217097
>>26217116
>>26217090
>reading
Silly Communist
>>26217218
dude epic!
>>26217184
Maybe you should look shit up before insisting on your misinformation.
>>26214052
>exterior
Do you mean Exeggutor?
>>26213770
>But OU is isnt stall!
I hate those faggots
>>26217218
I'm an american too you obese eagle fucking waste of space.
>>26217226
calm down there Commie. I know you're jellous of my overwhelming Freedom, but no need to meme it up.
>>26217184
stop posting
>>26217256
hey buddy, i think you got the wrong door
/pol/ is two boards down
>>26216575
That made no sense. I dont even know how to respond to that. Point is, it's niche is being physically defensive to check those threats mentioned, along with it being the best switch in to mega pinsir. Surely you're not trying to question that physdef is bad, as it's been explained to you why that's the only viable zapdos spread. Offensive zapdos is outclassed by thundurus and spdef zapdos does next to nothing in OU
>>26217250
You can still be a commie even if you're an American
hence, Commiefornia, for example.
>>26216940
You obviously don't understand how stat boosting natures work
>>26216575
Well for one, having some experience in OU would help. From a statement like that its obvious you don't play if you believe anything other than physdef zapdos is good in OU.
>>26216980
>usually
i have NEVER seen a Char-Y team that did not follow this formula to the letter
I usually hover in the mid 1500s though
>>26216744
>>26216716
Damage output means little when Noivern gets walled by less things due to coverage, can switch into more stuff, and doesn't eat up a megaslot. Also a specs set hits harder than Pidgeot and can run U-Turn to scout switch ins
>>26216813
Wait, never mind. Drought is banned in UU, so Mega Charizard Y would be automatically banned because of its ability.
>>26217650
Mega Pidgeot may be shit but you have no idea what you're talking about if you think Noivern's better than it.
>Gliscor that low in usage
I don't want my bro to drop out of OU
But how would it work in the UU environment? Too many bulky waters to be usable?
>>26217819
You know you can use UU pokemon in OU right?
>>26217650
>Pidgeot is too strong for UU
>Noivern is too weak to be UU by usage
>Noivern is better than pidgeot
>>26217858
I know, but then I wouldn't be able to brag about my bro being OU since Gen IV in karenfag threads :^)
But seriously, I really would like to know how it would be handled in UU. A fair amount of Pokemon I like are UU so it'd be interesting to jump into that meta.
>hoopa gets banned
>amoonguss and quagsire skyrocket to ou
>>26213770
>M'Zam and Sylveon in UU
>Zapdos not in UU
DIDNT READ, IM I BEING TROLLED?
>>26213770
>tfw Pokemon Online will never use Smogon's tiers
>>26213770
I sense a lot of bans coming up...
>>26216603
Smogon would fuck that trio if they could
>M-Zam sitting at A+ on the viability ranking
>BL
They really need to rethink their tiering system for Megas
>>26217711
>>26217863
Retards I was theorymoning that if perma rain was still a thing, Noivern would be much a better Hurricane spammer. Bird Jesus Hurricane never missing without weather(which was nerfed this gen) is it's selling point over Noivern which was why it was more threatening.
>>26215202
Stall is not exciting.
It is, quite literally, the exact opposite.
What happened to make Mega Lopunny take such a dive in the 1825 stats? It's even below Mega Medicham now.
>>26218147
4MSS and an inability to boost its stats outside of PuP I guess
>>26218147
just a guess, but it really only ever runs one set. and stuff like that can hurt a mon because it becomes too predictable. good mons usually have 2, maybe 3 sets with a couple of moves changed. too diverse and you get banned like grenigga, too little and you drop in tiers.
>>26213770
>Quagsire moved from NU to OU
>>26218147
The meta's been getting bulkier and it doesn't do as well against them. Mega Lopunny's best at annoying the shit out of flimsy offense teams. On the other hand, Mega Medicham thrives off of kicking the shit out of defensive cores.
>mfw Stallfags wallow in OU while I get to play with all the fun offensive toys in UU
>>26217997
I love how Rhyperior is ranked higher than Sylveon, even though Rhyperior's in RU and Sylveon was OU until today
>>26213770
>Quagsire moved from NU to OU
>Amoonguss moved from RU to OU
HELL YEAH, ABOUT TIME
>>26218210
Most common set is Fake Out/HJK/Return but the last slot can be Ice Punch, Quick Attack, Healing Wish, Power Up Punch or Thunder Wave
>tfw quagsire has been my shitmon bro since its introduction
>now everyone uses it
I'm not sure if I should be proud or angry
>>26218272
That's because Rhyperior resistsbravest bird
also iirc it can survive ridiculous shit with Solid Rock, M-Pinsir's +2 Close Combat is a 2HKO at best and it gets its shit slapped by Rocks in return. Basically every flying-type loses 1 on 1 to it: Zapdos, Staraptor, etc. Only exception is Skarm
>>26216848
>>M-Houndoom drops to PU
Don't put you're megas in this tier pls,it's the only along with LC that it's safe of theme
>>26218335
>Sunkern used Absorb!
>Celebi in 2U
Noice, time to trade in Roserade.
This will make Mega bee better, too.
>>26218344
>252+ SpA Choice Specs Sunkern Absorb vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 120-144 (28.3 - 33.9%) -- 91.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
>44+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sunkern: 201-237 (100 - 117.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
>>26218320
I feel you man, I've had so much fun blocking sweepers with unaware, now everyone will do that or predict it
Besides, he's been my bro since silver even more than feraligatr
>>26216848
>Double Zard in UU
>Pinsir in RU
Cheese and crackers. The power creep cannot be this real.
>>26213770
JUST WHEN ARE THEY GONNA FIX MEGA BEEDRIL
>OUTFAST EVERYONE
>FUCKTON OF DAMAGE
>LOL UTURN TO THE DESIGNATED TEAM SPONGE
>>26218377
>actually responding to a [Comically weak Pokemon] uses [comically weak move to which your favored Pokemon is 4x weak to] post
How NU are you?
>>26218147
Stall got better and more widespread.
>>26217915
Gligar is UU. Gliscor would be fucking great in UU. It could run a bunch of sets effectively that only get niche usage in OU, like its SD stuff.
>>26217238
You're arguing nomenclature and semantics. I could care less for them, i'm more concerned with the viability of different builds for zapdos.
>>26213770
>3 ground mons are top 3
>>26217650
Pidgeot can run u-turn too.
Won't Quagsire be eaten alive in the same tier as Mega Venusaur, Ferrothorn and Amoonguss?
>>26213770
>tfw ambipom STILL hasn't dropped
Someone please get this shitmon out of RU.
>>26218585
Not anymore so than Heatran is eaten alive in the same tier as Excadrill, Hippowdon, Garchomp, Gliscor, Landorus and, yeah, Quagsire itself. The 4x grass weakness hurts but it's not bad enough to offset Quagsire's positive traits.
Also, not surprised at all to see Zapdos in OU but I'm not sure how long it'll last. They have amazing synergy with Volcanion and I'm sure the shiny new toy syndrome was enough to bring Zapdos into the spotlight, but if Volcanion's usage drops now, Zapdos will too.
>>26218585
naw. It is used beside them. Venu, Ferro, and Amoongus are also easily walled by other mons. Quag is used for the Unaware to stop set up sweepers.
>>26218388
Read the thread, it's been explained why megas drop lower than other Pokémon.
>>26218340
>there are people who still hate megas
>>26218410
>WORST DUAL STAB IN THE GAME
>DIES TO ALL PRIORITY
I think you might just have to git gud
>>26218585
Most likely a team with quaq will already have grass type checks/switchins. Quag is great in this current meta.
>>26218206
Ok if there's one thing it certainly doesn't have it's 4MSS. It literally runs the same 3 moves, and effectively too. The last slot is usually always filler. You could argue 4MSS for something like metagross, but certainly not Lopunny when its consistently running one set effectively
>>26218410
U-Turn is pretty much its best bet if it can't kill the opponent in front of it with one hit. It dies to anything.
>you were born into a future where stallfags won
>the highest of the tier will never let it go since they're the ones who control it
>>26219014
so all we gotta do is get some of the offensive shitters on /vp/ to get gud and we can get the votes in on smogon and make it balance out... shouldn't be that hard right?
Alright cool but when are they gonna remove mienfoo from LC
>>26219014
This happened in gen 4 as well and to a lesser extent gen 5. The longer the games are out, the more offensive mons get banned because there are clear definitions of what is ban-worthy for offensive mons compared to defensive mons. There is no point where the bans stop until the next gen comes out.
>>26217130
Florges still has a niche with Calm Mind + Synthesis.
As a cleric, yeah, Sylveon completely outclasses it.
I'm more worried about Machamp. It already had to compete with Heracross, now it has to compete with Conkeldurr too.
>>26213770
>Sylveon moved from OU to UU
RIP Hydreigon
Those damn quick bans hit MAlt and MZam before I could use them
>tfw amoongus was one of my favorites from gen 5
>tfw it was a shitmon
>tfw OU now
feels good man
When will she drop to UU?
>>26219982
never, have fun in BL purgatory for eternity with Staraptor
>>26219999
>forced to deal with smogonbird and heatran for all eternity
Kill me.
